<White_Flame>
well, probably too long for an IRC line. But I can nest the _use_ of custom readtables to nest expressions of different languages/representations
<White_Flame>
(and I typo'd in there anyway)
<White_Flame>
(and it's a degenerate example anyway)
<LdBeth>
I see. I needs to be handled explicitly by the reader macro.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<Josh_2>
Mornin'
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<LdBeth>
hello beach
<LdBeth>
what do you recommend for learning design patterns with Common Lisp Objective Oriented programming?
<Josh_2>
OO programming CL by Sonja E Keene?
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<no-defun-allowed>
Design patterns are compromises for bad language design.
<White_Flame>
design patterns exits to cover for coding complexities that emerge within particular languages
<no-defun-allowed>
So, hopefully you don't learn DPs.
<White_Flame>
different programming paradigms have different "patterns" and one shouldn't just port them from one to another
<White_Flame>
common lisp has defmacro to get rid of pattern-heavy programming
<White_Flame>
as a solution to noticing patterns cropping up in your code
<aeth>
every language has design patterns... Common Lisp, I guess, has some macro patterns.
<LdBeth>
*no-defun-allowed*: but you cannot avoid it, since CL is not perfect
<beach>
LdBeth: I don't know the best source, but I can tell you that I didn't "get" object-oriented programming in Common Lisp by reading Keene's book. I only understood it once I read the CLIM II specification.
<no-defun-allowed>
The big takeaway: "16 of 23 patterns have qualitatively simpler implementation in Lisp or Dylan than in C++ for at least some uses of each pattern"
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<aeth>
no-defun-allowed: yeah, but CL has its own, different patterns
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<aeth>
and some people would want to macro them away, but not everyone would want to deal with macros like that
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<no-defun-allowed>
I am trying again to run CL on a Raspberry Pi, this time it's a Pi Zero I got in the mail. What implementation should I use?
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<mfiano2>
SBCL or CCL work great on any ARM device, my Pi devices included.
<no-defun-allowed>
SBCL doesn't support threads on 32-bit ARM, and CCL had some weird memory corruption bug possibly caused by mutexes being not very exclusive.
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<no-defun-allowed>
Although they are very nice -- it isn't possible to implement green threads in CL and work from there, is it?
<Josh_2>
there are green threads libraries
<Josh_2>
cl-flow?
<no-defun-allowed>
Can't imagine that working actually.
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<no-defun-allowed>
Josh_2: I mean, running straight off normal CL functions, no CPS or transformations.
<mfiano2>
Don't use a 32 bit OS?
<Josh_2>
rasp pi zero w, you don't have a choice
<no-defun-allowed>
They're both 32 bit boards.
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<tfb>
aeth: macro patterns, yes, for instance (with-x(x) ...) expanding to (call-with-x (lambda (x) ...)) is a pretty common thing
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<alandipert>
if a GO escapes its lexically-enclosing TAGBODY via LAMBDA, and is later executed in a dynamically-enclosing TAGBODY with a matching tag name, is that supposed to work? or is undefined
<alandipert>
consulting CLTL and CLHS i'm not really sure, thanks for clarification
<Shinmera>
TAGBODY establishes lexical labels. Capturing them and calling them outside their original scope is undefined.
<beach>
It is undefined behavoir.
<beach>
behavior even.
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<alandipert>
ok, thanks beach and Shinmera
<beach>
Anytime.
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<alandipert>
is it true that LAMBDA is the only way a tag could escape?
<beach>
FLET, LABELS.
<alandipert>
ah of course. an additional thank-you :-)
<beach>
:)
* alandipert
remapped caps lock to escape and ctrl many years ago, with all my CL-ing it might be time for caps lock to make a comeback
<alandipert>
a keyboard with it labeled CommonLisp would be cute
<Xach>
alandipert: escape AND control?
<alandipert>
Xach yeah, momentary for escape, hold for ctrl
<Xach>
alandipert: how?
<alandipert>
Xach depends on your OS, what are you on?
<Xach>
let us discuss this privately if you don't mind!
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<pjb>
alandipert: "GO escaping its lexically enclosing TAGBODY" is meaningless.
<pjb>
alandipert: present code examples instead!
<jackdaniel>
I imagine it is (tagbody foo (lambda () (go foo))
<alandipert>
pjb i meant a situation like (tagbody t0 (setq f (lambda () (go t0)))) and then later (funcall f) in some other tagbody branch
<jackdaniel>
and there is a clarification in the spec that there are three strategies
<jackdaniel>
let me look for it
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<pjb>
alandipert: still meaningless: tagbody doesn't have branches.
<alandipert>
pjb i don't find myself particularly motivated to clarify for you since i don't want to spend my day arguing semantics, but maybe someone else has the time to entertain you
<pjb>
alandipert: if you keep thinking illogically about code, you will keep not undertanding what you're asking.
<jackdaniel>
it is hard to look for it, because cleanup issues are not indexed
<jackdaniel>
and I don't remember this particular issue number ;)