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<no-defun-allowed>
do cffi foreign objects get GCed?
<Bike>
no.
<no-defun-allowed>
damn. i have to use foreign-free.
<no-defun-allowed>
i want to pass foreign memory between functions to give to OpenCL as much as possible, and convert them should i need to use a CPU function so i guess i either have to write a GC (yeah no) or free everything naively after each frame of work
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<LdBeth>
How about Boehm GC, #'no-defun-allowed
<no-defun-allowed>
in a lisp environment? sounds dangerous.
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<LdBeth>
In C
<Bike>
if you use cffi's with-foreign-object or whatever it is, it'll take care of it
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<no-defun-allowed>
i can't pass around the objects if i do that. i'd like to use them as return values
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<no-defun-allowed>
is there a portable type specifier i can use to check if an object is a pointer?
<no-defun-allowed>
Structures aren't equivalent to structure-object, just subclasses. Same with CLOS objects too I believe.
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<jackdaniel>
beach: I'm not sure if I understand the question, but single-float for instance is a type (subtype of float) designated by an atom. spec doesn't mandate single-float having its own class
<beach>
Sort of. STANDARD-OBJECT is the superclass of all classes defined using DEFCLASS.
<beach>
jackdaniel: Right you are.
<beach>
But isn't it either a class or it expands to (float low high)?
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<jackdaniel>
in 16.1.3 single-float is a builtin-class, but before that it didn't expand to that, no
<jackdaniel>
in ECL 16.1.3
<beach>
no-defun-allowed: I haven't checked for structures, but I imagine there is something analogous to say about them.
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<jackdaniel>
(or maybe it did but I remember wrong, I'm not 100% sure)
<beach>
jackdaniel: I am asking whether there are atomic type specifiers that must be neither. I.e., neither system classes nor equivalent to some compound type specifier.
<beach>
jackdaniel: Or, on the contrary, is it possible to implement the type system so that every atomic type specifier is either a class or it expands to some other type specifier.
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<beach>
no-defun-allowed: By the way, there is no definition of "CLOS class" in the Common Lisp HyperSpec. If there were, it would very likely be "any Common Lisp class", since every class is part of the Common Lisp object system.
<no-defun-allowed>
Fair enough.
<no-defun-allowed>
I had expected that they would have some special type as they have the wonderful SLOT-VALUE defined for them.
<beach>
They have a special name and it is "standard classes".
<no-defun-allowed>
You learn something every day. Thanks.
<beach>
Anytime.
<beach>
jackdaniel: Maybe I am not expressing my question very well.
<no-defun-allowed>
Would you mind if I could ask you some questions about your work in PMs?
<beach>
Go ahead if you don't think it would interest #lisp.
<no-defun-allowed>
It's not exactly Lisp specific, more work ethic.
<beach>
OK then.
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<beach>
Now supposing I am right, what if some atomic type specifier has both a type expansion associated with it AND it is a class named like that. Which one takes priority.
<jackdaniel>
whichever was defined later [with a warning]?
<beach>
Hmm.
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<beach>
So the algorithm would be: If it is a compound type specifier that is treated specially, like AND, OR, NOT, MEMBER, EQL, then do the special processing.
<beach>
If it is compound then first check that the object is of the type indicated by the CAR.
<beach>
Then check that the object corresponds to the rest of the type specifier. This processing is specific for each CAR.
<beach>
Otherwise, it is an atomic type specifier, so see if it expands to something, if so, recursively process the expansion.
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<beach>
Otherwise, check that there is a class of the name, take the CLASS-OF the object and check that it is an instance of the class of that name.
<beach>
Simple.
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<beach>
So it sounds like two generic functions: (typep object type environment) and (typep-compound object atomic-type subsidiary-type-information environment)
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<beach>
Now, who is going to implement this for me?
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<beach>
By the way CLASS-OF must also be a generic function (class-of object environment). That way, we can return FIXNUM in some environment and INTEGER is some other.
<beach>
I mean, we can return <built-in-class FIXNUM> in some and <built-in-class INTEGER> in some other.
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<beach>
No takers?
<beach>
Oh well.
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<shka_>
beach: sorry :(
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<beach>
It's OK. It is probably faster if I do it myself.
<beach>
But I need it soon, because my bootstrapping code needs to verify the type of things, and currently it calls the host TYPEP and that is just completely wrong.
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<shka_>
beach: so you are working rather intensly on bootstraping?
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<beach>
Yeah. I was not happy with the way I did it the first time. So I am doing it over again, this time taking my experience into account.
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<beach>
And I noticed some holes in the system, like no TYPEP for first-class global environments.
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<beach>
Fare: I think there is something wrong with the logs on Tunes.
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<Fare>
beach, :-(
<minion>
Fare, memo from PuercoPop: I can't find any reference to the QUAKE ORM you mentioned. Do you happen to have a link?
<Fare>
PuercoPop, it's part of the QUUX tarball release of ITA Software code.
<shka_>
i am getting illegal terminating character after a colon: #\|
<shka_>
when loading postmodern
<shka_>
looks familiar?
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<Xach>
shka_: i have not seen that. in what file?
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<shka_>
Xach: one second, let me check
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<shka_>
Xach: after nuking cache and restarting sbcl, freshly loaded postmodern works just fine
<shka_>
so i guess this is a glitch in my setup
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<Xach>
ok
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<dmiles>
beach: what is the name of your lisp-in-lisp ?
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<beach>
minion: Please tell dmiles about SICL.
<minion>
dmiles: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
<beach>
minion: Please tell dmiles about Cleavir.
<minion>
dmiles: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future
<beach>
dmiles: Don't try it. It is not finished.
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<dmiles>
[09:27] <+dmiles> common lisp interpreter though is 90k lines of .lisp [09:27] <@naturalog> ok but is not 100% lisp [09:28] <@naturalog> is not a pure self interpretr [09:28] <+dmiles> i am refering to one lisp ... it has nothing but lisp code.. no other language
<dmiles>
wanted to pass the name to hime
<beach>
OK.
<beach>
dmiles: SICL is not a "Lisp interpreter" though.
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<dmiles>
#'eval will work at least in teh short term?
<beach>
Not for many months yet.
<beach>
But that's unrelated to the fact that it is not an interpreter.
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<beach>
dmiles: Do you see what I am saying?
<dmiles>
is it not an interpreter in the way that SBCL is not an interpeter?
<beach>
Right.
<dmiles>
that is that it compiles every form first
<beach>
Correcct.
<beach>
Correct, even.
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<pjb>
Let's correct correctly the word "correct".
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<helloh0la>
hi im new in the channel
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<Bike>
What is up.
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<drmeister>
Im thinking aloud here while I’m on my phone - can I define a method on finish-output for a stream? Python has a sys.displayhook() that I need to mimic so that cl-jupyter can display intermediate output
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<Shinmera>
With gray streams, sure.
<drmeister>
Ok - I gotta do some homework before I can ask a better question.
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<Xach>
k/win 3
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<no-defun-allowed>
Good morning everyone!
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<Fare>
Good evening, no-defun-allowed
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<grobe0ba>
i am having issues running CCL. On Alpine, with MUSL libc, i'm missing symbols, which is to be expected, so i'm not bothering with that at the moment. however, since that fails, i have been attempting to run it in a docker container with centos, which fails with "Couldn't load lisp heap image from /home/grobe0ba/opt/ccl/lx86cl64.image: Operation not permitted".
<grobe0ba>
the container is privileged, using host networking, and has multiple add-caps, all apparently of no use.
<grobe0ba>
does anyone have any suggestions?
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<pillton>
stylewarning: Regarding the conversation a while back where you said: "ad hoc polymorphism is nice with types/classes/CLOS/spec-store/whatever, but I meant parametric polymorphism above, where we define a function that's singly generically useful for many types"