<no-defun-allowed>
gnu smalltalk also has some documentation too
<no-defun-allowed>
the best is `true become: false`
<no-defun-allowed>
sorry, `True become: False.`
<siraben>
Any books?
<no-defun-allowed>
can't say i look for those. not good with books.
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<siraben>
learnxinyminutes is a good resource but it's shallow
<siraben>
I started FORTH like that too
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<zigpaw>
I liked the graphical side of squeak/pharo, all of the tools looked sleek and were snappy and also liked how you could query the documentation by providing the input and preferred output values (it wasn't that much useful but surprised me in a good way).
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<zigpaw>
siraben: Pharo have a nice and up to date section filled with books: http://books.pharo.org/
<siraben>
zigpaw: thanks. I'll take a look.
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<v0|d>
no-defun-allowed: overslept?
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<no-defun-allowed>
beach wake up it's time to say "Good morning, everyone!"
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<siraben>
Is Pushing Pixels with Lisp a good series to watch?
<shrdlu68>
Define good.
<siraben>
interesting, one learns things from it etc.
<shrdlu68>
There would be a lot to learn from it for me, but that field is not currenly within my realm of immediate interest.
<beach>
no-defun-allowed: Hello.
<beach>
I didn't feel like greeting everyone today.
<unanimousarc>
How do I get sly to respect *print-circle* in the repl?
<zigpaw>
I was using vim for a long time so spacemacs and then doom-emacs give me a familiar environment and it got me past the 'first impression', but I think most younger people would compare it to something they got to know like atom or vs code and it gives very different feel (but that's just my opinion).
<pjb>
unanimousarc: what is sly?
<unanimousarc>
pjb: a SLIME alternative, I thought it was quite common but maybe not
<pjb>
you have several such variables, for different circumstances.
<unanimousarc>
aha yes I see, "slynk:*slynk-pprint-bindings*" I'll try that
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<unanimousarc>
Yep that worked, thanks!
<unanimousarc>
btw I've been learning common lisp through land of lisp and I've found it good so far, does anyone know if there's anything major missing from it or if there's a reason I should avoid it?
<unanimousarc>
I've noticed a lack of exercises
<pjb>
thre's no reason to avoid books, even bad books, as long as you keep a criticial mind about them, and read several of them.
<pjb>
If you read only the coran and assume it's God's word, then bad things occur…
<shrdlu68>
But it says so right on the first page...
<unanimousarc>
true, but I don't want to read too many books, as I get bored easy :)
<unanimousarc>
maybe this and practical common lisp
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<shrdlu68>
Let your curiosity lead you.
<pjb>
unanimousarc: and more important that the general opinion about a book, to learn something, is the personal receiption you have of it. Whether your personality actual matches the teaching style of the book.
<unanimousarc>
I do enjoy this book because it is not shy to introduce a complicated topic concisely, which is what all papers are like (I am a physics phd student)
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<pjb>
unanimousarc: PAIP contains a first part that is a summary of the CL specifications. You might like it.
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<unanimousarc>
pjb: I'll take a look
<shrdlu68>
unanimousarc: ANSI Common Lisp by Graham is essentially a concise summary of the spec.
<unanimousarc>
so is the spec kind of like a standard library in other languages? Since there is so little syntax
<pjb>
unanimousarc: we could think of it like this. This reduces to the question of the "primitive" set. Unfortunately, there is no unique or specified primitive set.
<pjb>
CL distinguishes special operators, macros and functions. But special operators can be implemented as macros, and macros can be implemented as special operators. And functions from the CL package can be open coded (kind of inlined, or implemented as primitives).
<pjb>
And there are also some functions that cannot be implemented in terms of the other functions (they're really "primitive" functions of CL).
<pjb>
for example, funcall can be implemented in terms of apply, but the reverse cannot be.
<shrdlu68>
unanimousarc: Not quite, the spec if technical standard which conforming implementations ought to adhere to, including a "standard library".
<unanimousarc>
Yeah, of course there has to be some level of special forms, it said in this book that you can implement almost everything using just lambda, but I don't know anything about lambda calculus
<shrdlu68>
s/if/is a
<pjb>
There are other cases of "primitive" functions, eg. (setf gethash). So you cannot blindly say that functions and macros in CL are library.
<unanimousarc>
yes true, anyway I should get back to work :P
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<didi>
If I'm creating a new struct, is there a vantage of defining it as :type list? Let's say it have few slots, less than 6.
<didi>
s/have/has
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<Bike>
Probably not.
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<didi>
Bike: Thank you.
<zigpaw>
there is also gentle introduction to common lisp (which is actually really really gentle).
<phoe>
you don't have to know lambda calculus to use Lisp anonymous functions
<phoe>
it's just a matter of notation that anonymous functions in Lisp are invoked via the symbol LAMBDA
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<pjb>
minion: memo for didi: there are downsides in using :type : then you won't be creating a new type, so it'll be harder to distinguish those structure instances from lists (or vectors). So you would do that, only when this would be the point.
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell didi when he/she/it next speaks.
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<aeth>
On the other hand, you can manually deftype, but that's only practical for specialized arrays, not lists.
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