<rz2k>
they are non-opensource, you cant reprocude them, yeah. to be opensource you need to provide the CAD files themselves, like olimex does with EAGLE project files
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<wens>
i've looked at the schematic quite a lot
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<wens>
Puneet B is back again
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<Nyuutwo>
used scope on my tablet
<Nyuutwo>
LCD doesn't work beacuse A20 doeen't generate data on lvds
<Nyuutwo>
but it has LVDS logic levels
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<Phoenix_>
Hi, Maybe someone here can help me. I'm trying to boot linux on my own board (very similar to the cubieboard). I'm getting "Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000004" PC is at sub_preempt_count+0x38. Full log: http://pastebin.com/G6yBiUJS . Any ideas what's going wrong?
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<Nyuutwo>
Phoenix_: are you sure that dram is configured properly? (timings)
<Phoenix_>
i'm not sure
<Phoenix_>
is this point the first time it uses the ram?
<Nyuutwo>
Nope, whole kernel sits in ram
<Nyuutwo>
also u-boot
<Phoenix_>
i figured the ram was okay as it got this far
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<Nyuutwo>
it looks as it just changed to userspace code
<hramrach>
Phoenix_: are you sure the kernel is for the right hardware? I Get very early crash when I boot kernel for a10 on a20
<gzamboni>
i didnt know hdmi and vga used i2c internally as part of the comunication
<Phoenix_>
The hardware is very similar to the cubieboard, which runs the kernel fine.
<hramrach>
gzamboni: i2c is used for ddc
<Nyuutwo>
Phoenix_: you can have skew in ddr lines different than on cubie but it normally works good
<Nyuutwo>
but on big jumps in memory it breaks
<hramrach>
Phoenix_: you can always try clocking the stuff lower. I guess it would crash earlier if the kernel was for different hardware. The memory clock is configured in u-boot at compile time
<hramrach>
also if the memory parameters are different just using card for cubieboard with cubieboard u-boot can cause problems
<Phoenix_>
how does one work out the ram timing parameters?
<hramrach>
Phoenix_: see the submitting new boards page on the wiki
<hramrach>
Phoenix_: you can try asking Allwinner what the damn memory controller parameters mean. Because nobody here knows. But maybe AW does not know either. For them documentation is something that is fabricated after the fact
<hramrach>
Phoenix_: tsvetan hipboi and lkcl have some experience with board development. Maybe somebody else I have missed?
<Nyuutwo>
hramrach: who should I ask for help with LVDS LCD (logic levels are, but no signals)
<hramrach>
I think tsvetan never finished his a10 board because he could not configure the memory controller to work with his chips :p
<Phoenix_>
thanks. i'll try fiddle with the parameters
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<hramrach>
Nyuutwo: lvds should work. Try posting on the malinglist. there are some people who got displays working. You probably need some tuning to the fex file
<Nyuutwo>
Phoenix_: remember that on pcb you have to have same electrical length lines to DRAM
<Phoenix_>
i kknow
<Phoenix_>
length and impedance matched everything
<hramrach>
I think the display I have is rgb, though
<Nyuutwo>
probably I will have to solder to LVDS clock
<Nyuutwo>
and then try to enable it
<hramrach>
I would expect that the clock is driven from A10
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<Phoenix_>
well, some changes to ram parameters produced a different error in the same place: http://pastebin.com/chva0ZUy
<Nyuutwo>
Phoenix_: you can disable D and I cache to help debugging
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<Nyuutwo>
Phoenix_: bad syscall, it looks you have very corrupted userspace or problems with dram
<Phoenix_>
from what i've seen, cubie, marsboard, hackberry all use the same ram parameters. eoma board has something different.
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<hramrach>
Phoenix_: they probably copied the memory part from cubieboard. Like same chip layout, similar trace length.
<Phoenix_>
they couldnt have. cubie uses 2 x16 ram chips, marsboard has 4 x8 chips
<hramrach>
Nyuutwo: goerge loakimedes sells LVDS displays as accessories for cubieboard so he would have them working
<hramrach>
Phoenix_: so it just happens to work for them. There is no description of the parameters so nobody knows what they really do :/
<Phoenix_>
yeah
<Nyuutwo>
Phoenix_: SPL sits in sram - you can write program to fiddle with settings and checking results
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<FreezingCold>
How close is Allwinner's support for the mainline kernel? Like is it up to date?
<buZz>
no
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<buZz>
allwinner doesnt do any mainlining, its all community
<hramrach>
FreezingCold: mainline does not work. there are patches for it but very few drivers are available
<hramrach>
it's under heavy development, heh
<FreezingCold>
buZz: But they do release information unlike Rockchip, right?
<hramrach>
hopefully in like 2 kernel versions we can have some basic drivers merged in one tree
<hramrach>
FreezingCold: they release junk source code
<FreezingCold>
oh :(
<FreezingCold>
so pretty close to rockchip...
<buZz>
we just have a better communitykernel :P
<FreezingCold>
I tried to get debian running on my mk808 and had a hell of a time
<FreezingCold>
the drivers were so hacky
<FreezingCold>
like I was copy pasting files...
<hramrach>
the main difference from rk is that AW released bootloader source and and their kernels are runtime configureble
<hramrach>
like you can run single kernel on any A10 device because it can be configured. With rk baord.c you have to compile one for every device with different pin assignment
<FreezingCold>
On a random question, who designs these MKxxx things?
<hramrach>
some chinese company, quite obviously
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<hramrach>
it sells on alibaba, right?
<FreezingCold>
there's several with different chips and different designs
<FreezingCold>
and different logos
<hramrach>
rebranding
<hramrach>
quite common for CHinese devices
<hramrach>
tracing the original designer would be rather challenging
<hramrach>
the interesting thing with rk kernel being unusable junk is that development focuses more on mainline
<oliv3r>
ssvb: we have schematics for the cubie's, but no board layouts etc etc, just the schematics, and they aren't a 100% match afaik
<FreezingCold>
hramrach: I thought rk going to mainline was like zero chance?
<hramrach>
there are some mainlined drivers
<FreezingCold>
wtf>
<hramrach>
just as AW has some very basic support in mainline
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<hramrach>
of course, that's not been contributed by the chip maker :->
<FreezingCold>
Is there any low cost ARM chips with mainline?
<Nyuutwo>
FreezingCold: imx6?
<FreezingCold>
isn't there something TI too?
<oliv3r>
i thought rk mainline stuff was only very basic
<Nyuutwo>
but for media you need nonmainline kernel
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<hramrach>
there is a gpio nand driver so maybe should look into that :)
<Nyuutwo>
neat
<Super-noob>
btw. is it easy to set a pgio pin on an a10 for like exactly a few hundret µ seconds to high or low like on an arduino with digitalwrite and a delay ? or what can one do from userspace
<Nyuutwo>
Super-noob: probably not
<Nyuutwo>
on arduino you need have disabled interrupts to get exact time (or use timer)
<Nyuutwo>
and you have jitter on interrupt
<Super-noob>
yes, i have a 433mhz transmitter on an arduino with ethernetshield and it works quiet well recieving an udp packet with the timing for the transmissions, but my mele is just profiding the webinterface with for the devices to use the remotecontrol
<Super-noob>
so i thought maybe i don´t even need the arduino
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<Super-noob>
but on the other hand it´s better to have 9v for the transmitter rather then 5 or only 3,3
<oliv3r>
Turl: the dts can either have clocks or clock-names, right? not both? also, the clock-names are defined by the clock maintainer right? :p
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<Nyuutwo>
Super-noob: ethernet on arduino ...
<Super-noob>
i copyed my sketch together out of samplecode and it´s running stable 24/7 for month
<Nyuutwo>
Super-noob: probably not connected to internet
<Super-noob>
i only hear so bad story´s even the enc network chips are used
<Super-noob>
no it´s only in the homenetwork recieving the commands from the mele
<Nyuutwo>
probably it is the reason why it works (no "strange" packets)
<wens>
oliv3r: clock-names are defined bt the consumer
<wens>
clock-output-names are defined by the provider / clock maintainer
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<wens>
clock-names complements clocks, giving the clocks defined in "clocks" property new names
<wens>
at least that's how stmmac uses it
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<oliv3r>
wens: yeah i glanced at stmmac
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<oliv3r>
wens: i thought clock-names was an alias for clocks with a nice name
<oliv3r>
so kinda that matches, and I like it as it looks better :p
<oliv3r>
so you do HAVE to define them both in the binding? i don't think i only saw the one for stmmac
<wens>
perhaps clock-names only applies to the node it's defined in
<mripard>
yes, that's pretty much it
<mripard>
clk_get will first lookup in the local clock-names to see if a clock matches
<mripard>
and if not, turns to the system-wide clock names (that are defined by clock-output-names)
<oliv3r>
so the name (alias) is defined in the clocks driver for sunxi
<oliv3r>
and the binding only says it wants to use it; got it
<mripard>
which one?
<wens>
the system wide name is in clocks driver
<oliv3r>
so you ideally only use either/or, not both
<oliv3r>
mripard: the sata ones specifically; fixing up the comments on the binding docs
<mripard>
yeah, but which name are you talking about?
<wens>
oliv3r: clock-names is used when the system wide clock names don't match the driver's expectations
<oliv3r>
"ahb_sata", "pll6_sata";
<mripard>
so clock-names
<oliv3r>
ah yes
<mripard>
it's still local to the node
<mripard>
it's not system-wide
<oliv3r>
but thats not ap roblem is it
<mripard>
but that way, the driver can do clk_get("ahb") (for example)
<mripard>
and you define what the ahb clock for that driver is by using clock-names
<mripard>
that way, you have only one clock name in your driver
<mripard>
but different clocks associated to that name, depending on the instance
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<oliv3r>
so why are clock-names optional?
<oliv3r>
or atleast, that's one of the comments
<wens>
oliv3r: if the system clock names match, you wouldn't need clock-names
<oliv3r>
ah ok
<oliv3r>
well lets see if its approve off now :p
<wens>
mripard: has anyone added dt bindings for sdio/usb devices before?
<mripard>
USB I'm not sure
<mripard>
because it's enumerable, so it doesn't really make much sense to put it in the DT
<mripard>
SDIO, I think a colleague of mine worked on an Atmel board using SDIO
<oliv3r>
do you have u-boot-spl (_FEL versioN) and u-boot?
<oliv3r>
can you force your tablet into FEL mode?
<libv>
i know how to force the tablet into fel mode, that's a given
<oliv3r>
well if you where REALLY unlucky, they 'ommitted' the FEL mode :p
<libv>
but what is the fel version of uboot
<libv>
is that a version especially built without sd/mmc support?
<libv>
or is there other stuff going on?
<oliv3r>
just copy your boards.cfg build string, and add FEL to it
<libv>
(apart from enabling the SD multiplexed uart)
<oliv3r>
grep _FEL boards.cfg
<Nyuutwo>
oliv3r: you were faster
<oliv3r>
Nyuutwo: faster with?
<Nyuutwo>
grep command ;p
<oliv3r>
libv: SPL_FEL btw is the correct flag
<libv>
but what does it do?
<oliv3r>
Nyuutwo: you where really slow, because i had to CD to u-boot; and test my grep :p
<libv>
it only initializes the board, as opposed to what?
<libv>
"SPL FEL is a special stripped down u-boot SPL which only initializes the board."
<Nyuutwo>
oliv3r: i had too do this
<oliv3r>
it adds a special 'start.o'
<libv>
wtf does that mean?
<libv>
does the normal u-boot run an instance of emacs?
<libv>
will i be able to do anything with the _FEL version?
<libv>
what?
<oliv3r>
it allows you to execute it; and stuff after that
<oliv3r>
it doesn't change mmc settings
<oliv3r>
so in theory, you can boot _FEL and still load everything from SD card
<oliv3r>
but yeah, the binary is different, it adds special stuff so that it will actually do all that
<libv>
do i need separate u-boot-spl.bin and u-boot.bin to be able to do anything after starting the _fel version?
<oliv3r>
memory offsets are slightly different
<libv>
this page really does create more questions than it answers
<oliv3r>
i'm not sure baout u-boot.bin, but you will get a special FEL spl
<libv>
_get_, yes
<libv>
but what then?
<oliv3r>
then you upload it as on the usb page is mentioned to a memory location; execute it
<libv>
and what does it do, exactly, as opposed to the standard u-boot?
<oliv3r>
nothing
<oliv3r>
it's exactly the same, with special padding prepended
<oliv3r>
so you in your specific case, you will have to change the mmc stuff too
<oliv3r>
but again; i think 2 or 3 people ever used this method so far
<libv>
no surprise there :p
<oliv3r>
yeah most actually have uart
<oliv3r>
but my a10 tablet, has the same problem as yours :p
<oliv3r>
no (marked) uart
<libv>
oliv3r: so you have depended on this before?
<oliv3r>
i don't recall; i do know i got my kernel to output something over the uSD adapter, something Inever had done before; so was quite excited; but this was almost a year ago
<oliv3r>
i'm trying to setup my workspace to test fel mode on my cubieboard, but stupid wifi isn't working on this stupid box
<Nyuutwo>
i have tried fel on cubie2, haven't microsd cadr at home
<libv>
we are all spending too much time on proper development boards :)
<oliv3r>
libv: sad, but true, my A10 tablet still runs something 3.0 'stock-ish'
<oliv3r>
mostly due to lack of touschreen driver, still
<oliv3r>
someone shout at my wifi
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<oliv3r>
it connects, it just won't ping or receive data :S
<libv>
also, nand is seriously underdocumented...
<Nyuutwo>
oliv3r: ping from tablet constantly to anything
<Nyuutwo>
will work
<Nyuutwo>
have the same problem
<oliv3r>
Nyuutwo: nope; it's the stupid ralink usb wifi
* libv
first gets a win XP box running to be able to pull the nand image off the a13
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<oliv3r>
you goin gto pull data via livesuit? didn't even know you could do that
<Nyuutwo>
oliv3r: yup I have also stupid realtek and it more works when I ping from ralink to anything (some power mismanagement?)
<libv>
i hope you can, how else am i going to pull a copy of the ram off?
<libv>
err s/ram/nand/
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<oliv3r>
ohh i think my route's fucked
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<oliv3r>
yay! the interweb is back; it was only a fucked resolve.conf
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<oliv3r>
mrnuke: your patch works on a20 :)
<oliv3r>
mrnuke: running tinymembench to be sure; will test it on a10 then push it
<oliv3r>
meanwhile, i'll also do a fel build :)
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<mrnuke>
oliv3r: of course it works. it was written by the hand of a god
<mrnuke>
:P
<mrnuke>
glad to know it fares ffine on a20 as well :)
<oliv3r>
well have to test what i commit ;)
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<oliv3r>
tinymemtest checks out
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<mrnuke>
in coreboot, we commit first, ask questions later :p
<libv>
great. nothing :(
<libv>
nothing on serial/sdc, and ./fel version just hangs
<libv>
ah, CONS_INDEX=1
<oliv3r>
ah wasn't that where output is supposed to be put?
<oliv3r>
i do recall that
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<oliv3r>
1 = uart0
<oliv3r>
/* Define this to have serial channel 1 (UART0) redirected to SD port */ /* #define CONFIG_UART0_PORT_F */
<oliv3r>
that's what you want
<oliv3r>
CONFIG_UART_PORT_F
<oliv3r>
which in turn disables mmc
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<libv>
aha, serial
<oliv3r>
ah you don't even have to define it there, you can add it as param in boards.cfg
<gzamboni>
i never tried, but it should work fine for small filesystems
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<oliv3r>
libv: er it's buildroot, busybox some other things, devmem and tinybench
<oliv3r>
libv: i just link it from within make linux-config (bsp) or make menuconfig; CONFIG_INITRAMFS_SOURCE: is the option to the cpio
<oliv3r>
libv: in theory, you can compile it yourself with buidlroot or miniroot; but i'm lazy and for 90% of the things i wanna do it suffices
<oliv3r>
anyhow, time to reproduce your debugging on a13 and document it
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<oliv3r>
perfect, clear slate; it doesn't work on my tablet anymore (guess i changed my bootloader back)
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<itdaniher>
should it surprise me that USB hubs don't work on OTG on my A13?
<oliv3r>
yes it should
<oliv3r>
oh no, on hosts
<oliv3r>
i think there's some bugs with otg + hubs
<itdaniher>
well, looks like I've found one of them!
<itdaniher>
on this tablet the wifi's occupying the host port, so I may wind up pulling it off
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<Turl>
sup
<Turl>
oliv3r: you asked sth about clocks on dt?
<mripard>
Turl: I think wens and I answered his questions already
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<itdaniher>
it actually looks like the wifi card isn't showing up - in android, it was USB device 148f:7601, but nothing's listed in F19
<itdaniher>
(that's mt7601 afaict)
<Turl>
mripard: ok then :)
<Turl>
mripard: anything I should review while I'm around? :)
<mripard>
the patches wens posted today maybe ?
<oliv3r>
Turl: all sorted it hink :) late bringer
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<mripard>
Turl: especially the second patch
<mripard>
I wonder how that can work with clocks that have not been converted to clk@...
<oliv3r>
ok this si strange, a script.bin with all memory parameters set properly, from the bigginging to the start
<mripard>
Turl: nvm, he sets clk_name to node->name, and of_property_read_string will overwrite the string passed as an argument only if the property is set
<mripard>
so it's ok.
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<Turl>
mripard: yeah, we discussed that the other day :)
<Turl>
mripard: the only thing I've seen so far is arm on the title (vs ARM)
<mripard>
yeah, it's not really a big deal :)
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<libv>
CONS_INDEX=1 is indeed not needed, it was my bad replugging of the connector
<libv>
now for the heightened dram clock
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<libv>
ah, ok that works too, so that wasn't the reason why my sd card was not turning up anything
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<oliv3r>
ok my TX doesn't seem to work on the tablet; or they (I) disabled the tx somehow in fex/u-boot.
<oliv3r>
screen does print characters, on my a10 board it does work; so cable is fine
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<oliv3r>
unfortunatly my homebuild lichee-u-boot doesn't boot anything; stuck at 'starting kernel' :(
<libv>
:(
<oliv3r>
time to put back original u-boot and see if that outputs
<oliv3r>
u-boot was 100k smaller, so possibly something else wrong
<oliv3r>
i did set SD_UART, UART_PORT_F
<oliv3r>
i wonder _why_ u-boot won't start the kenrel, no output other then 'starting kernel'
<oliv3r>
that and I still have the option to hook up the internal uart if i really can't manage to do anything else; bummer that i can't enter fel-boot
<vector80>
oliv3r: I have a question about sunxi team and android images
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<vector80>
If this is a secret, I can ask privately
<vector80>
As I understand from the wiki, linux-sunxi is mostly interested in linux, not android
<vector80>
Why this android 4.4 is important for you then?
<oliv3r>
because the android sdk includes the kernel
<oliv3r>
and the kernel contains potentially patches to their previous release
<oliv3r>
the android bits aren't that interesting
<oliv3r>
as for android itself; we are interested, it's just nobody has put the time up yet to make a nice cyanogenmod tree; atsampson started it, but gave up
<oliv3r>
but paulk will start looking at a cm/replicant tree soon
<vector80>
if somebody really need to make something like CM on sunxi, I am volunteer to give my best help to do
<vector80>
With your helps, my interra-3 board is running amazingly, it is wonderfull, and it took only 2 weeks to come to this point
<oliv3r>
could have been 2 days :p
<oliv3r>
did you check into the debian bootscripts?
<vector80>
yes, but all is because of my stupidness
<oliv3r>
dand systemd vs sysinit-v
<vector80>
When you ask me such questions, I really feel very stupid again :( What is debian bootscripts ?
<oliv3r>
you said your board was booting slow
<vector80>
yeah, the scripts were running in parallel
<vector80>
and I read a lot about it
<vector80>
Actually, there are some points not very clear in my mind
<vector80>
Can I explain here?
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<oliv3r>
erm i'm not really an expert :p
<oliv3r>
you can always ask
<vector80>
I see... I will read more, study more about these on the net
<vector80>
Actually, it was like this
<vector80>
If you see blog post from olimex about how they create debian SD card for Olinuxino-A20
<oliv3r>
but debian boots relativily slowly; due to sys-v; if you'd switch to systemd, it should be conciderably faster; but you need to know a little what your doing, the swap isn't 'super' easy i think
<vector80>
In the end of their blog post
<vector80>
in order to bring their eth0 up and get ip from dhcp,
<vector80>
they use "dhclient eth0"
<vector80>
I was thinking why they did such thing,
<oliv3r>
from bootscripts its slow
<vector80>
yeah, it was terribly slow because the reason was,
<vector80>
in the beginning of init,
<vector80>
system first go into runlevel 2
<vector80>
and in that runlevel,
<vector80>
scripts were not running in parallel
<vector80>
So I decided to run /et/init.d/networking in some "parallel" way
<vector80>
after that, I hacked 2 files, and addred one more shell script
<vector80>
now it is booting and running networking parallelly, and you can setup the system as static IP or DHCP via etc7network/interfaces..
<vector80>
That was a tricky way, but I must study and learn, how to change to systemd way....
<vector80>
But before all these...
<vector80>
I feel the kernel is not perfect
<vector80>
in dmesg, I see a lot of bad warnings
<vector80>
I want to avoid these (if possible), can I share them here again ?
<oliv3r>
rdid you make a master SD yet?
<vector80>
yes and no,
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<vector80>
I have 3 class10 Sd card,
<vector80>
and I can directly copy its files to my eMMC,
<oliv3r>
yes but be ccarefull with that
<vector80>
and only change uboot, and it works like a charm thanks to you..
<vector80>
Why ?
<oliv3r>
you are booting an OS from the card
<oliv3r>
it makes temporay files (/var, /tmp etc)
<oliv3r>
so the OS is 'active'
<oliv3r>
now you copy all the files over
<vector80>
oh yes, don't worry, I am using "rsync --exclude:..bla bla bla"
<vector80>
I know that, it was killing my eMMC :)
<vector80>
I don't know why these sandisk eMMCs are soo expensive when compared to NAND
<oliv3r>
so when you reboot, you boot in a previous 'active' OS, so it'll be like it crashed
<oliv3r>
it can work; just 'nasty'
<vector80>
Don't worry, I compared original debian rootfs with my SD card, and then used rsync
<vector80>
but I feel bad about my dmesg logs
<oliv3r>
it's "nicer" overal
<vector80>
Let me give you here, wait
<oliv3r>
its' nicer to have a seperate dir, with the entire rootfs in it
<vector80>
I am trying to boot from NFS actually, studiying how to do it
<vector80>
3 years ago, I was booting all my Armv5te Linux DVB-S2 STBs via TFTP + NFS
<vector80>
I feel this one shouldn't be so hard also
<oliv3r>
to update each repository, cd repo; git pull --rebase
<vector80>
ok let me try
<Nyuutwo>
yup also with mmc_pm ... sdio
<Nyuutwo>
vector80: git submodule update
<vector80>
Nyuutwo: You are extremely helpfull, thank you soo much
<Nyuutwo>
or afair make update in sunxi-bsp
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<vector80>
Actually I must do these tests paralelly with olinuxino A20
<Nyuutwo>
but I make crappy wiki pages ;p
<vector80>
You are the author of wiki pages in sunxi.org ?
<Nyuutwo>
vector80: nope, I'm just creating wiki page of my tablet
<Nyuutwo>
and I don't have good camera to get photos
<vector80>
:)
<vector80>
Nyuutwo: anyway, it was very good to see these issues on another A20 device also :)
<vector80>
How about that V-F table, do you have those erros too?
<Nyuutwo>
you talk about [mmc-err] smc 2 err, cmd 8, RTO?
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r,
<ZetaNeta>
yeah said digikey sells good cameras
<Nyuutwo>
it looks like connected to mmc
<ZetaNeta>
"Can you point with a finger?"
<ZetaNeta>
As i didnt find ANY suitable :3
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<vector80>
Nyuutwo: yes I mean that error
<Nyuutwo>
but realy don't care about them, it's based on allwinner sources, some them looks like probing done wrong way ..., and there is mainlining effort
<vector80>
I also don't know where this mmcblk0boot0 and mmcblk0boot1 is coming from ? My eMMC does not have such partitions ?
<vector80>
will be back in 10 mins
<Nyuutwo>
i've seen only mmcblk0p1 (but not on A20)
<libv>
wingrime: did you read the last part of that?
<ZetaNeta>
I stuck on "Was this the best use of libv's time?"
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<wolfy>
i stuck at "First off, this is a highly technical wiki and _now_ wikipedia."
<wingrime>
libv: not again
<ZetaNeta>
wolfy, PROGRESS I SEE!
<libv>
wolfy: heh :)
<ZetaNeta>
wolfy, SOME PEOPLE STUCK ON THE TITLE!
<oliv3r>
wingrime: there are obviously a few 'simple' documents that can be translated; nothing is ever black/white
<wolfy>
at least in eastern europe now!=not even for large values of "t"
<wingrime>
libv: also , who here are NATIVE speakers?
<oliv3r>
but overal; translating each howto, every 'help' bit, is a big effort and won't be kept up to date
<oliv3r>
i don't think we have many native english speakers; :)
<libv>
wingrime: i think lkcl
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, A better idea: "Local" communities
<oliv3r>
so it's important we all communicate in the same language
<ZetaNeta>
after all.. there are mysterious people who "Uses locales" in console!
<ZetaNeta>
:D
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<oliv3r>
if there are 10 $lang users that would spend all week translating; there wouldn't be a problem
<libv>
wingrime: my native tongue is belgian dutch, my english is quite fluent, my written german is horrible but i am very fluent albeit incorrect when speaking, and i have had 8ys of french in school so i can fully understand most spoken and written french
<Nyuutwo>
ZetaNeta: i tried to use, but not always right encodings in man pages ...
<libv>
wingrime: and _i_ complain about translations
<wingrime>
oliv3r: I not saying each FAQs , only general things
<oliv3r>
general things, are ok to be translated
<libv>
wingrime: all translations are bad
<oliv3r>
but the other week, someone started to translate the main page to farsie
<wingrime>
libv: ok, it's your opinion
<oliv3r>
well question one could be 'why english' :p
<ZetaNeta>
libv, All libs are bad
<libv>
wingrime: how many languages do you speak then?
<libv>
wingrime: how international are you?
<wingrime>
libv: rus, eng, some jap
<ZetaNeta>
Nyuutwo, BUT SOME DO!
<oliv3r>
wingrime: ohh japanese! i'm jealous
<oliv3r>
wingrime: will you go to fosdem btw?
<wingrime>
oliv3r: not quite well
<ZetaNeta>
wingrime, Da ti shto blya? Pravdo?
<libv>
wingrime: i rather doubt the japanese
<wingrime>
ZetaNeta: yobta
<wolfy>
"Was Popolon his contribution an improvement" is not proper english either. libv , may I suggest ""Was Popolon's contribution..." ?
<libv>
wolfy: these days, my belgian family laughs at my dutch
<wingrime>
libv: I quite understand jap speach, but writing is Horible
<libv>
wolfy: it's half german
<libv>
wingrime: across the park from me is mfabian
<libv>
he speaks japanese and writes it too, he has his desktop in japanese and he has a japanese keyboard
* ZetaNeta
added wingrime to his list of russian irc users
<libv>
he did a postdoc in physics in japan for 2 years
<wolfy>
libv: I apologize but I am not going to create an user just to edit one word. And since I am more a lurker than a developer, I doubt I'll ever have contributions to post in the wiki
<libv>
and he spent a lot of time learning the language while there, while his other german colleagues just clumped together and had fun
<oliv3r>
i want to learn mandarin
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, I am user it wants to learn you
<ZetaNeta>
s/user/sure
<libv>
this guy has an encyclopedic memory and either researches something to death, or makes no statement about it
<libv>
and he states that his japanese is rather bad
<libv>
that even the limited conversations he has with his japanese wife are far from correct
<wingrime>
libv: for me known some language means ability read something that not present in my native language, I may be learn something other, but there is no much interesing stuff for read that not translated to eng
<ZetaNeta>
libv, I cant type dvorak, yet i got a dvorak keyboard
<libv>
wingrime: this is not wikipedia
<ZetaNeta>
"Why?|
<ZetaNeta>
s/|/"
<wingrime>
oliv3r: yeax, mandarin may be interesing
<libv>
wingrime: wishing to learn a language does not mean that you have to fuck up the wiki for us
<wingrime>
libv: Wikipedia is horible place
<libv>
wingrime: then don't turn our wiki into it
<oliv3r>
wingrime: besides, your english is fine!
<wingrime>
oliv3r: not quite well
<libv>
wingrime: more than good enough to contribute
<libv>
wingrime: and miles ahead of being able to use our wiki
<ZetaNeta>
wingrime, libv, Sunxi wiki is already a horrible place. I would rewrite it as soon as i get nginx back running on my fbsd
<libv>
ZetaNeta: please don't.
<oliv3r>
wingrime: quite enough :)
<ZetaNeta>
libv, WHY?
<Nyuutwo>
I don't feel confident when I am writing in english
<libv>
ZetaNeta: fix what needs fixing, in english, when you encounter something that needs fixing
<ZetaNeta>
libv, I am not touching you wiki. Why cant i write my own "non-wiki"
<oliv3r>
if it's really bad; but technically accurate, someone will fix it sooner or later
<libv>
Nyuutwo: relax
<libv>
Nyuutwo: or just spend some more time in here
<Nyuutwo>
it is probably good choice
<ZetaNeta>
libv, I disagree with wiki format... I disagree with the "1000 and 1 page" format... I see everything unorganized...
<libv>
ZetaNeta: that's what happens.
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: so organize
<wingrime>
oliv3r: english learn curve becomes harder for each step
<oliv3r>
wingrime: grammatically; but really, I can understand you, always
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, I guess my edits will be restored...
<Nyuutwo>
with reading technical things I haven't any problems, but to compose a letter, even in native language ... i hate writing something wich seems official
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: state your intentions, discuss, then act :)
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, making a "wiki" was a wrong idea anyway
<libv>
Nyuutwo: that's something else
<libv>
Nyuutwo: this is about being able to communicate here and on email, and on understanding and improving the wiki
<libv>
Nyuutwo: your english is outstanding for those purposes
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, My idea is to make a "clean" site, and if everyone likes it....
<wingrime>
oliv3r: technical reading or writing need very small set of words, using english only of it make my vocabuary smaller than it could be
<libv>
and this really is the point, if someones grasp of english is good enough to make a translation, then he doesn't need to make a translation to begin with
<libv>
wingrime: read a good english newspaper and some books
<Nyuutwo>
but I know that I make silly bugs in my writings, but sometime I cannot find word to describe something in my native language
<vector80>
I love linux-sunxi.org
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: so we should do it in German; the technical language of old
<libv>
Nyuutwo: top-tip: install dict
<libv>
Nyuutwo: you get a nice list of related words with that
<libv>
if you cannot find the fitting word for something, dict might get you there
<libv>
Nyuutwo: it'll soon become second nature
<oliv3r>
wingrime: but really; your technical expressions have been fine and welcome
<Nyuutwo>
I hope so
<oliv3r>
wingrime: don't be affraid :)
<ZetaNeta>
wingrime, Thats why i am stating to forget english, and almost forgot russian....
<libv>
ZetaNeta: what else have you forgotten?
<ZetaNeta>
libv, How to write on URQL... partly
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: do you speak esperanto?
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, No, but i speaakshfoshgiohgianfgadnhioadnhgnwrmoh
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: lol well if we lived 80 years ago; the wiki would have probably be in german
<wingrime>
oliv3r: indeed , If you able make someone understand using english, it's not always means you know it well, so I need more literature reading
<ZetaNeta>
А еще я умею говорить как цветная капуста!
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, True
<oliv3r>
wingrime: more IRC time :p you practise reading and writing :)
<libv>
oliv3r: i think there was a congressional vote in the .us in the 1800s on which official language to adopt
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, Eh... the times when German, Russian and jap internet been "large"
<mnemoc>
"english is the easiest language to speak badly" (tm)
<libv>
oliv3r: there was some margin, but german was a big contender
<wingrime>
oliv3r: IRC not impove grammar...
<oliv3r>
if it weren't for wwii; technical english would have been german
<oliv3r>
well and maybe ww1
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, German is for lazy asses
<oliv3r>
anyhow, as things are going, the new internatinoal language may be very well mandarin
<oliv3r>
so ZetaNeta start learning; start translating
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, "Learn BF"
<libv>
oliv3r: thanks to the great chinese firewall, it isn't :p
<wingrime>
libv: why not use latin in wiki for great justice ?
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: 1080p at 30fps, but ask for a sample, with datasheet :)
<libv>
wingrime: because that's not the reality of today.
<oliv3r>
how do you reach the largest audiance
<oliv3r>
how can you communicate with the most users
<libv>
oliv3r: put a picture of a pair of breasts on the front page?
<libv>
but that will not help us with technical stuff :p
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, I am forbidden to sign NDAs before i find where to buy good fake mustaches
<oliv3r>
who cares when there's boobs
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: lol
<libv>
oliv3r: we should have a separate wiki then
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, Know any shops? You should be a expert in this
<wingrime>
mnemoc: are you added CAN manual to dl.linux-sunxi ?
<libv>
oliv3r: where the front page has a pair of boobs, and where we can banish all translations too :p
<mnemoc>
wingrime: /A20
<wingrime>
mnemoc: nice
<oliv3r>
ZetaNeta: mustache? i shaved mine after moovember
<Nyuutwo>
I think it is something different, when I want find some easy and durable circuts, I search in russian sites, but when I look for microcontrolers I use english
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r, I got a mustache... but i need to glue 1 on another i guess in this case
<Nyuutwo>
I can decypher russian text, and polish sounds simillar
<oliv3r>
Nyuutwo: durable circuits from the cold war :p
<Nyuutwo>
oliv3r: yup, build with mighty hammer
<ZetaNeta>
oliv3r,
<Nyuutwo>
like ham radio amplifiers built on russian lamps
<ZetaNeta>
Do you have a open port on you desktop i can access from out side?