<fujisan>
Elliott cable how long has our frandship been sailing?
<fujisan>
ec_: je taime mon amie
<fujisan>
jeg elsker deg
<fujisan>
I love you man
<incomprehensibly>
hi ec_
<ec_>
incomprehensibly: o7
<incomprehensibly>
how've you
<ec_>
We need to have an uncomfortable conversation, #ELLIOTTCABLE.
<ec_>
unfortunately, alexgordon is offline. -_-
<incomprehensibly>
haha what conversation
<ec_>
tl;dr cloudhead & alexgordon got a little MRAey, and a half-dozen-ish people quietly quit the channel and came to me out-of-band.
<ec_>
I've been pondering what my response to this should be, for weeks — it's unfortunately quite complicated, as nobody said anything *directly* reprehensible; just a burgeoning bucket of dog-whistles indicating some underlying problematic beliefs that made a substantial number of oppressed peoples really, really uncomfortable with being in here anymore.
<incomprehensibly>
ah I missed that
<incomprehensibly>
lol the thing about urbit
<incomprehensibly>
is that it's shitty and boring
<ec_>
Frankly, I'm really upset: this room has an unfortunate diversity of viewpoints; which I, *personally*, quite enjoy (I find keeping everything from Republicans and MRAs to anal atheists and freaky evangelistic vegans in my sphere of awareness, keeps my own emotions and opinions a little more 'balanced'),
<incomprehensibly>
and if i were running a conference i would quietly reject his proposal for a talk as boring, and band
<incomprehensibly>
bad
<ec_>
but if this is actively hurting people … I'm going to have to either ban some people, and ruin the character of this channel forevermore … or permanan some particular *topics* using purr or something, which would equally fuck up the character of this channel
<ec_>
tbqf ive come within a hairsbreadth of just jumping in here, kicking everybody, and setting the room invite-only/guard. I'm afraid we're finally reaching the end of an era. /=
<ec_>
maybe it's just time for the Channel of the Welcome-Back Penises and Grilling Your Hands to just go the way of the dinosaur
<ec_>
idk, idk at all ;_;
<incomprehensibly>
i really just think that
<incomprehensibly>
it's impossible to simultaneously:
<incomprehensibly>
have a space where 1. hot-button topics aren't prohibited 2. your friends who don't like codes of conduct and social justice like to hang out 3. your friends who like social justice and codes of conduct hang out
<incomprehensibly>
but I think that it is ok to have different sets of friends in different spaces
<incomprehensibly>
and they don't all have to be shoved into the same room
<incomprehensibly>
like there are some parties that I would not invite some friends to
<incomprehensibly>
and I don't think that's a problem, that's just like being able to navigate being social
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<meowrobot>
i missed this event, but...what incomprehensibly said. there are people who are going to be completely incompatible with each other, and eventually there may come a time when you will have to choose who to enforce against.
<meowrobot>
i don't think hot button issues are a problem as much as people coming at them obnoxiously or in bad faith.
<meowrobot>
which just happens to be the majority of the time it seems.
<meowrobot>
as far as cloudhead/alexgordon, since i missed the discussion i don't know what exactly happened but yeah, if i caught something like that i probably wouldn't have liked it either... i'm tired of seeing random people insert 'sjw' into every other sentence they make at this point.
<meowrobot>
(i don't know if they said sjw or not every other sentence but i say that as an example)
<jfhbrook>
I mean
<jfhbrook>
what I saw was two people having shitty opinions
<jfhbrook>
they can continue to have shitty opinions, that's fine
<meowrobot>
it's more i have problems with said shitty opinions taking over the discussions of half the fora i browse on the internet, instead of like, topical matters like gamedev, etcetera
<meowrobot>
there is almost always some asshole that'll derail a topic with something like "the fucking sjws are ruining this for us"
<meowrobot>
and i'm like, we're trying to talk about a story or game programming or whatever dude
<pikajude>
of the 27 buffers in my buffer list i can go to almost any of them to hear from MRAs
<pikajude>
i'm all good with the current level of MRA saturation
<pikajude>
we don't need to increase it
<pikajude>
i think 3 of them are MRA-free
<ljharb>
put another way, i don't think we need to be worrying about protecting historically and consistently over-represented demographics
<ljharb>
one of those groups being, "people who like to say things others find objectionable, without consequence"
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