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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
twee
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
…tbot
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Okay ... what the fuck happened in here, today
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm on the road for another coming 24 hours
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and trying to sort through the chatlog every time I stop at a supercharger ain't fucking going fucking well, so somebody tl;dr me
<ljharb>
essentially, someone started complaining about "SJWs" and "feelings on the internet", someone else agreed, and then while i was attempting to understand and counter their position, the former mentioned the moldbug thing (ie, defending moldbug) and that caused coraline to leave. we ended up talking about the difference between public and private spaces, and
<ljharb>
then at some point things kind of died down.
<jfhbrook>
wow, I missed that
<jfhbrook>
sounds like a shitshow
<jfhbrook>
fuck my life
<ljharb>
twas a bit.
<ljharb>
luckily nobody seemed to say anything super overtly offensive, but a very large number of offensive things were danced around and hinted at.
<jfhbrook>
I mean, from my perspective, and maybe this is silly, but
<jfhbrook>
I kinda want a safe space
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<jfhbrook>
and by safe space I mean the exact one they're whining about
<jfhbrook>
and I don't aim to make every space I'm in one where I don't have to hear people talk about SJWs non-ironically
<jfhbrook>
but there aren't very many
<jfhbrook>
safe is the wrong word
<jfhbrook>
as I rarely feel unsafe
<jfhbrook>
non-annoying spaces
<jfhbrook>
let's say that
<ljharb>
comfortable spaces?
<jfhbrook>
I can deal with my ideas being challenged
<jfhbrook>
that's not what I mean
<jfhbrook>
for instance, I just had a close friend tell me I'm overreacting to that horrible /r/javascript thread
<jfhbrook>
and he's probably right
<jfhbrook>
after all, nodevember folded like
<ljharb>
i don't know which thread you mean
<jfhbrook>
you know about the nodevember/crockford thing though?
<jfhbrook>
it's the reddit thread about that
<ljharb>
i know that they removed him. i don't know specifically why, but i assume it's because he's an asshole
<jfhbrook>
he's said the kind of mildly sexist stuff your parents might say
<jfhbrook>
and one time he had a talk called "monads and gonads"
<ljharb>
sure, i remember that
<ljharb>
at the time i thought it was funny
<jfhbrook>
yeah, like that was it
<ljharb>
i was, shall we say, less evolved back then
<jfhbrook>
emily started tweeting about how nodevember's lineup was all men and how they were inviting THIS guy and how their conference was at a religious school
<jfhbrook>
kas was like, oh yeah THAT guy I won't be in the same room as him
<ljharb>
the solution there tho is to a) get women, and b) pick a non-religious school
<jfhbrook>
nodevember just started bending over backwards over twitter, like done he's out
<jfhbrook>
they got a killer deal on the space ljharb I don't really blame them
<ljharb>
(unrelated to what they do with crockford)
<ljharb>
sure
<jfhbrook>
and yeah, I think they're also taking steps to diversify the lineup? though I'm not sure?
<jfhbrook>
idk, I saw it and then I was like wait what did crockford do? oh, funny
<jfhbrook>
then they're like dun done and I'm like, oh I wasn't really going anyway and that's weird but okay
<jfhbrook>
but then *this* thread
<ljharb>
i mean, crock shouldn't have a platform regardless
<ljharb>
but i also suspect if they'd diversified the lineup quickly, that the specific upset over crock would probably have faded
<jfhbrook>
yeah I mean their behavior seemed pretty reactionary and I get that
<ljharb>
but here's the main thing, regardless of the specifics of this situation:
<jfhbrook>
but that thread just makes me angry
<jfhbrook>
I hate people
<ljharb>
if, when commenting on this situation, you also defend a) moldbug, b) opal, c) all the other total bullshit that is indefensible, you kind of prove the point.
<jfhbrook>
who's opal?
<jfhbrook>
I remember lambdaparty and moldbug, that was bad
<jfhbrook>
moldbug is like the guy that wrote the book my really racist uncle reads and gets bad ideas from
<jfhbrook>
I at least can follow the logic on that one, because you can treat a github repo in a sanitized way that you really can't a conference
<jfhbrook>
I don't think it's right
<jfhbrook>
at all
<jfhbrook>
but in a world where a software project doesn't have values, just a version history and an ACL
<jfhbrook>
or perhaps in a world where nobody is able to have an outside opinion about a project if they haven't put effort into it
<jfhbrook>
oh wow, this is a project that people actually use
<jfhbrook>
fucking morons
<ljharb>
lol yeah, that too
<purr>
lolnope
<jfhbrook>
wow I just looked at the original keynote lineup
<jfhbrook>
richard rodger gives a *lot* of talks
<jfhbrook>
like a lot a lot of talks
<jfhbrook>
because it's good business for nearform
<incomprehensibly>
wow this stuff makes me slightly uneasy and makes me feel paralyzed
<incomprehensibly>
i feel like it's impossible to express unease over like, immediately removing a speaker without a chance for dialogue, learning, forgiveness, whatever,
<incomprehensibly>
without being perceived as throwing your support in with the "other camp"
<incomprehensibly>
or whatever
<incomprehensibly>
like i absolutely think that like, promiscuity/commitment metaphors are fairly ill advised in a conference talk? but i also feel like the community has only one way to deal with that which is
<incomprehensibly>
this person has become Bad and Tainted
<incomprehensibly>
get him out of here
<incomprehensibly>
no more talks ever
<incomprehensibly>
though also i've had experience irl with people who consistently make people feel unsafe and never learn and i do believe there are situations where someone should basically be permanently excluded and it's hard to get people to agree/help with that
<incomprehensibly>
meh
<ljharb>
incomprehensibly: i don't think that's true
<ljharb>
you can dissent over this specific thing all you like
<ljharb>
but if your dissent involves referencing other incidents/issues, then obviously that's what you've pulled in
<ljharb>
also generally, it's not "no more talks ever", it's usually that the person digs their heels in instead of immediately apologizing and recognizing the mistake
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<jfhbrook>
idk I can see it
<jfhbrook>
like in general I don't think they're coming to take your guns
<jfhbrook>
but I feel like a conversation wasn't had regarding crockford
<jfhbrook>
I woulda just swapped some of the speaker slots (richard rodger doesn't need yet another podium) and called it a day
<jfhbrook>
maybe made a commitment to tell crockford to remember that, hey, women code now
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