sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<waxwing>
re: the above, using bulletproofs for proving properties of sighashes, why not use zksnarks? it's not as if you're concerned with different crypto assumptions .. the proving time might be an issue, but it would be with bulletproofs also, but i bet it could be got round. Use of CRS/trusted setup wouldn't matter.
<waxwing>
obviously only a suggestion, as i don't know about this stuff, but: isn't the tooling further on with zksnarks? i don't how far is "further" here.
<nsh>
missed the discussion. what properties are desirable to proof in zk about sighashes?
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<waxwing>
the particular case under discussion was: you want to do a coinjoin, but you don't want to reveal your own utxo in advance, in case an attacker tries to enumerate your utxos by repeatedly requesting but not completing a join.
<waxwing>
so in very vague terms you're wanting to prove to your counterparty that the sighash they're signing against has their correct inputs/outputs but you hide the part of the hashed material which displays your input utxo
<waxwing>
see the logs, gmaxwell explained it ( a little) a couple of days ago
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<nsh>
ty
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<instagibbs>
is the performance of this proof the limiting factor? I'd expect it's validating the circuit etc
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<nsh>
well, it's a hypothetical mitigation to a hypothetical attack disincentivising a largely hypothetical utility so i think the main limitation is that none of this is especially happening
<nsh>
were there to be somehow large-scale orchestrated or encouraged coinjoins then we might see adversarial gaming and it'd be nice to preempt with a facility to show viability of join without risking enumeration
<nsh>
but i don't think anyone has a scheme to get people to do CJs at a meaningful scale yet. (i may have missed things)
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<waxwing>
agreed with the (amusing) characterisation, but enumerating attacks definitely already happened on joinmarket. and were ameliorated (debatable on the causality) by using a "PoDLE" (or DLEQ) technique. basically, translate your own utxos into privacy-preserving-in-public usage tokens. you have to use a token to "enumerate" others utxos.
<waxwing>
but i think anyway gmaxwell 's point is well taken that such things are generically useful for bunches of protocols, so whether they get used in this exact context is only of some interest.
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* nsh
nods
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<CubicEarth>
sipa: And btw, I few weeks ago I was marveling at how the opening chart - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-ever.png - basically has had the same shape for years now :)
<CubicEarth>
But yeah, there are steep drops, but no equivalently steep rises, which is why I am wondering
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<CubicEarth>
It looks like difficulty adjustments are causing the steps down? But I am not sure why they would factor in...
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