<bricker>
CrazyM4n: there are many problems with what you're trying to do
<bricker>
CrazyM4n: I mean, even theoretically
<rakm>
i know that "NULL" is actually the wrong thing to use as a string there
<bricker>
CrazyM4n: what you want to do is write an extension to the parser
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<rakm>
but i don;t know what the right way to do it is
<bricker>
CrazyM4n: because whatever you try to do, the code on the right side of your special operator will just get run and you'll end up with a useless return value
<timanema>
aoeu: wait it has been -25 here for almost a week now what is yours like?
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<timanema>
sevenseacat: yes I will swap with you anyday
<sevenseacat>
ive never been in a place that cold
<sevenseacat>
it just doesnt get that cold in australia, anywhere, ever
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<timanema>
sevenseacat: I used to live in sudbury and it would regularily go down to -40 during the winter, it was so cold you could fee the air in your lungs
<aoeu>
timanema: Always -5 than you.
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<sevenseacat>
here it just gets so hot you never feel dry ever because youre just constantly sweating
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<timanema>
aoeu: oh well at least you can just pop in your local grocery store to drown your winter woes in liqour
<lampd1>
in hong kong you sweat 24/7 but can't tell because it's so humid
<lampd1>
:P
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<timanema>
I would take any of that hot weather any day
<scottstamp>
word, it's like -5C here. :(
<timanema>
hibernation is not how I am meant to live
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<aoeu>
timanema: we can only buy wine and alcohol in government controlled SAQ.
<aoeu>
timanema: And it's $$$.
<aoeu>
timanema: Kind of like Ontario I guess.
<aoeu>
scottstamp: -20 here.
<aoeu>
scottstamp: If not much less.
<scottstamp>
Eh, if I do 'ClassName.get_const('InnerClassName')', does that provide the same functionality as 'Object.get_const('ClassName::InnerClassName')', or does that only work on Modules? the doc is a little unclear.
<scottstamp>
And ew. D:
<scottstamp>
screw that
<scottstamp>
I'm over in Newfoundland, on the coast, so it's frigid and humid. </3
<waxjar>
i don't think it takes the second form scottstamp
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<scottstamp>
hmm.
<scottstamp>
I suppose the easiest way to figure this out would be to try it, haha
<scottstamp>
Welp, I guess not - undefined method
<waxjar>
oh wow, it does
<scottstamp>
Really?
<waxjar>
it's const_get :)
<scottstamp>
I'm an idiot, lol, yeah
<scottstamp>
Sweet
<waxjar>
(classes inherit from Module, btw)
<scottstamp>
That makes sense, then.
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<scottstamp>
Don't suppose someone could give me an opinion on how I'm doing this structure? Instances of class "Response" contain instances of other classes, but there are a number of children so I'm trying to handle it dynamically. http://pastie.org/9832476
<scottstamp>
Usage: Structures::Response.new(some_data, 'Set') or 'Track') or ...
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<superlou>
Is there a grammar parser that works both directions? I'm trying to make a data storage format that's human readable and not obviously yaml. Was looking at treetop, but wondering if there's something that lets me define a grammar to parse a text file, and also turn a datastructure back into serialized text.
<scottstamp>
aoeu: you could ask the reverse in ##csharp and the loyalists will hand you a list of superiorities. Boils down to what you prefer ultimately, they're both strong languages. C# is a little more annoying to deploy (Windows, Mono)
<scottstamp>
Personally I write both depending on what I'm up to / project requirements. :P
<aoeu>
scottstamp: What makes Ruby more terse?
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<shevy>
aoeu you can morph or redefine a lot of ruby how you want to; for instance, I often do: alias e puts; then I just have to use e; sometimes I alias e to a method though, with ansi escape colours
<scottstamp>
shevy: C# 6.0 offers something similar, I don't quite remember the syntax though
<shevy>
I am sure it is a very verbose syntax
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<scottstamp>
Heh, it is.
<scottstamp>
using short = SomeClass.SomeLongFunctionName
<scottstamp>
that's the old way that I *can* remember
<aoeu>
How do you concatenate stings in Ruby? Like string.Format("My name is {0}", name).
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<aoeu>
shevy: "No perfect language" dealbreaker.
<scottstamp>
"#{varname}"
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<aoeu>
shevy: aliasing "e" is a silly hack that's impossible to read.
<scottstamp>
String interpolation
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<aoeu>
scottstamp: Cany ou do "My age is #{age}"?
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<scottstamp>
Sure.
<shevy>
aoeu it's extremely efficient; if you want verbosity, use java
<aoeu>
scottstamp: Can you do "My age is #{ 20 + 10 }" ?
<shevy>
aoeu show me how to alias in C#
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<aoeu>
scottstamp, shevy: There's string interpolation in C# 6.0
<scottstamp>
Directly, without .format?
<shevy>
did you answer the question
<scottstamp>
er, String.format(
<aoeu>
scottstamp: Yes, without .format
<scottstamp>
neat. I'll need to do a refresher.
<aoeu>
scottstamp: "My age is \{ person.Age \}"
<scottstamp>
lol I love the default is to escape
<aoeu>
scottstamp: Nevermind, only the first \, like your # in Ruby.
<scottstamp>
That makes more sense then.
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<scottstamp>
Ruby behaves like PHP with string interpolation btw, single-quotes won't replace the variable. And yes, you can do #{x+y}
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<scottstamp>
I feel dirty for making that comparison but it's true, lol
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<aoeu>
Do you have interfaces in Ruby?
<aoeu>
How do you deal with that?
<aoeu>
Isn't dynamism a bitch?
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<scottstamp>
I'm still learning, I'm not sure tbh.
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<scottstamp>
You probably just structure differently to deal with it.
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<aoeu>
You assume people know the codebase well and don't destroy things.
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<aoeu>
A dynamic language with no tests is a sure way to do wrong.
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<mozzarella>
scottstamp: sing something for us
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<scottstamp>
mozzarella: I'm an awful singer, trust me, you don't want that.
<bradland>
there’s a fancy string method too, so you can do “my %s string %s” % [foo, bar]
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<aoeu>
bradland: God no.
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<bradland>
but i luuuuuuuv sprintf :)
<aoeu>
bradland: I want to convert you to C# you guys are stuborn.
<bradland>
i write a lot of shell scripts, so it’s handy for formatting text mode reports
<aoeu>
bradland: just read the implementation of printf.c earlier.
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<shevy>
aoeu why should anyone use C# when they have ruby?
<aoeu>
bradland: It's bad, because you can't know the values before you look at the array at the end
<aoeu>
String interpolation is much more the future.
<shevy>
lol
<scottstamp>
aoeu: if you're here to preach C#, you're *definitely* barking in the wrong playground. Most rubyists aren't willing to give it up easily. ;)
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<shevy>
dealbreaker: we use << and assemble any string we want to
<scottstamp>
^
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<scottstamp>
and in a much faster manner
<shevy>
aoeu so C# has no aliases?
<bradland>
i hate how sting interpolation looks when you start dropping in stuff like “my #{foo.rjust(20)} string”
<shevy>
aoeu now that's a shame. does this mean that it can't be as terse as ruby?
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<shevy>
aoeu how about blocks in C#, can you show an example
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<bradland>
string interpolation is the future!
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<scottstamp>
bradland: this isn't really a reason not to interpolate, but with big concatenations, Array.join is faster. (I mean *BIG*, if you're doing something it'll make a difference in, it's a pitfall you probably already know about)
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<bradland>
i am not divorcing sprintf. we’ve been together too long. i know her well, and i love her. i know she’s probably not “the one” you guys imagined for me, but she’s mine.
<bradland>
oh, sry
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<bradland>
thought this was #therapy
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<scottstamp>
hah
<shevy>
you use strange characters bradland
<shevy>
like €™
<shevy>
you are on OSX right?
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<bradland>
yeah
<bradland>
probably smart quotes
<bradland>
Colloquy
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<scottstamp>
huh, just noticed that, they're almost indistinguishable at a quick glance on this font.
<scottstamp>
Also Textual>All
<aoeu>
shevy: We have autocompletion, so we don't have to type. -> Faster.
<shevy>
aoeu lol
<aoeu>
shevy: Blocks? Like { DoSomething; }
<shevy>
aoeu that's why java people have to use IDEs
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<scottstamp>
aoeu: you can get intelligent auto-complete in Ruby IDEs.
<shevy>
aoeu yes. Show a full example ok?
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<scottstamp>
JetBrains actually does it quite well.
<scottstamp>
It's less intrusive than the Visual Studio default configuration.
<aoeu>
shevy: If you code without an IDE, you lie to yourself.
<aoeu>
shevy: I can be 100% more productive than you in VS with C#.
<shevy>
aoeu why
<shevy>
aoeu VS?
<aoeu>
shevy: Want to have a battle?
<scottstamp>
shevy: visual studio
<shevy>
aoeu sure. let's write a package manager
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<scottstamp>
oh god
* scottstamp
runs the fuck away
<shevy>
aoeu ok, finished. let me see your C# code.
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<aoeu>
shevy: Better web tools, better server side framework, better language, better ORM, database, cloud. What more could you ask?
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<shevy>
aoeu lol? where are the factual statements?
* agent_white
suffocates under the massive amount of IDE buttons
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<aoeu>
scottstamp: Won't stop you from doing illegal stuff with incorrect types.
<shevy>
"illegal stuff"
<shevy>
oh man
<scottstamp>
aoeu: Stop no, warn yes.
<bradland>
types? this is ruby. we thumb our nose at types.
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<aoeu>
shevy: I already have a package manager. Called nuget.
<shevy>
nugget?
<shevy>
what can it do?
<shevy>
can you show me how to install glibc with it
<shevy>
the latest one
<scottstamp>
it's like wget for downloading 100mb+ DLLs
<scottstamp>
:D
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<aoeu>
shevy: I can get packages.
<aoeu>
shevy: I can update them too.
<shevy>
oh so you can't even compile stuff
<scottstamp>
So can we, it's called gem.
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<agent_white>
How many lines of code to write "hello world" in C#?
<aoeu>
shevy: Install-Package NameOfPackage
<scottstamp>
Want to do a bunch? bundler.
<scottstamp>
gem install nameofpackage
<shevy>
gem works only for ruby-addons
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<aoeu>
agent_white: 500 lines of boilerplate, then 1.
<shevy>
yeah ok now show me how you install glibc man
<agent_white>
owaitlol
<aoeu>
agent_white: what does "p" mean?
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<scottstamp>
Oh, right you are. We in the sane unix lands use specialized tools for that because it's cleaner. :)
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<agent_white>
aoeu: I hope you are joking if you're trying to talk smack on ruby...
<aoeu>
shevy: I don't understand what you're saying.
<shevy>
aoeu I know. You are a newbie to Linux.
* agent_white
hands shevy and and scottstamp bats
<aoeu>
shevy: glibc? I don't need it.
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<shevy>
Ok you don't need it. But you also can not install it either!
<aoeu>
agent_white: What does p stands for?
* scottstamp
uses said bat in very disturbing ways
<agent_white>
aoeu: Print
<aoeu>
shevy: No no. I use linux.
<shevy>
Yeah, you are a package-user.
<aoeu>
shevy: What is your point?
<scottstamp>
You use Linux and you're defending C# because nuget
<shevy>
aoeu I made it very clear above.
<agent_white>
aoeu: What is yours?
<scottstamp>
what
<scottstamp>
so many what
<agent_white>
^
<waxjar>
this is silly..
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<aoeu>
agent_white: How do people know that "p" stands for "Print"?
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<agent_white>
Boys, I think we have a crazy one.
<agent_white>
aoeu: Because this is #ruby ?
<aoeu>
agent_white: And how do you pick what you print to?
<scottstamp>
waxjar: thank you. v_V" I tried to keep this somewhat civil with factual points at the start.
<shevy>
aoeu you know that you can alias in ruby freely?
<aoeu>
agent_white: What if you want to print to the Printer, or to a Server, or to a secondary output?
<shevy>
alias p WriteLine
<shevy>
oops, the other way
<shevy>
alias WriteLine p
<agent_white>
aoeu: Then... I would?
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<aoeu>
agent_white: Yours what?
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<agent_white>
Not sure where you're getting at.
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<scottstamp>
who the hell writes the word "print" in anything that isn't a Batch file with the expectation of spinning up the printer queue
<scottstamp>
o_o
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<shevy>
scottstamp aoeu does; he loves verbosity
<aoeu>
shevy: I believe that aliasing is evil.
<shevy>
aoeu is that an argument?
<shevy>
I mean if you don't want to use aliases you don't have to!
<shevy>
But if you limit yourself, why should others limit themselves? That makes no sense.
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<aoeu>
shevy: I can assign Console.WriteLine to a function p if I want in C#.
<shevy>
There is nothing wrong with liking verbosity.
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<aoeu>
shevy: And then do p("Hello");
<shevy>
aoeu excellent - we can do this in ruby as well. So what is your point?
<aoeu>
agent_white: You asked "What is yours?"
<agent_white>
he
<agent_white>
h
<shevy>
I think aoeu is 5 years old.
<scottstamp>
aoeu: private void p (object namedVariable) { Console.WriteLine(namedVariable) } OR alias p print
<scottstamp>
\o/
<aoeu>
shevy: If people alias stuff to "e" and "p", it will confuse people.
<aoeu>
Code is first meant to be read.
<shevy>
?!
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
so that is why you use verbose code
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<waxjar>
#p is only for debugging, really. you won't find it in production code
<aoeu>
scottstamp: var p = text => Console.WriteLine(text);
<shevy>
looks like an assignment you do there
<agent_white>
I don't understand why C# is getting compared to ruby. It can't configure a dev environment for me, manage and deploy thousands of servers, or do simple scripting on top of that.
<scottstamp>
Ah, right, I was trying to remember that syntax earlier
<aoeu>
shevy: It is an assignment.
<scottstamp>
agent_white: SCOM for days
<scottstamp>
and by for days I mean it'll take you days to setup all your windows servers in an SCOM environment
<scottstamp>
:D
<aoeu>
shevy: I can alias any Class
<agent_white>
scottstamp: Hahaha +1
<shevy>
wow awesome
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<aoeu>
shevy: using Cat = System.Text.StringBuilder;
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<shevy>
please don't blind me with your verbosity
<agent_white>
scottstamp: And... why would one be using windows servers in the first place?
<agent_white>
Unless at gunpoint.
<scottstamp>
agent_white: C# vs. Ruby, assuming ASP.NET vs .. well, any Ruby framework, implying IIS vs. something that doesn't suck.
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<aoeu>
scottstamp: I just deploy to Azure.
<scottstamp>
then you're doing it wrong
<agent_white>
scottstamp: Preach!
<scottstamp>
three many wrongs
<agent_white>
Or how about that nasty bug at the kernel level you need to checkout for windows... ohwaitlol
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<aoeu>
agent_white: I use Linux servers.
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<scottstamp>
With Mono? hehe, poor performance
<agent_white>
aoeu: Well... you got something going for ya... ;P
<aoeu>
scottstamp: ASP.NET vNext, Linux is first class.
<scottstamp>
pending*, we're still waiting on it to be released open-source aren't we?
<aoeu>
scottstamp: Poor performance? Because Ruby is better?
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<agent_white>
C# sounds neat, and apparently many folks like it. But it doesn't even compare to the amount of versatility ruby has.
<scottstamp>
no, poor performance because Mono doesn't work very well on a server deployment, and it pails in comparison to Phusion Passenger.
<shevy>
aoeu are you comparing a compiled language to an interpreted language?
<scottstamp>
shevy: C# is just as heavily JIT'd as Ruby, but you can optimize both similarly
<agent_white>
And comparing languages used for much different things (besides webdev)
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<aoeu>
scottstamp: .NET is on Github now.
<jidar>
it's prolly a better idea to compare the memory management in the runtime envs rather than discuss the language itself
<scottstamp>
aoeu: in it's entirety?
<aoeu>
shevy: He used the F word.
<centrx>
fatwa
<aoeu>
shevy: And by F I meant P (damn aliases)
<shevy>
?!
<shevy>
k g eg e h e he ?
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* scottstamp
votes we all adopt brainfuck and get it over with
<aoeu>
scottstamp: .NET Core is there.
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<scottstamp>
Neat, sorry for attacking on the OSS thing, I didn't realize they'd finished migrating some of the more important stuff
<agent_white>
aoeu: Can you contribute to it if you wanted to?
<scottstamp>
agent_white: they do actually accept pull requests, I'm not sure how much code review is involved though
<agent_white>
I'd be curious to see how many of those are by people actually outside Microsoft.
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<scottstamp>
Maybe you need better glasses to see it clearly? :D
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<scottstamp>
(that was a joke, I'm not saying it's an obvious typo)
<arya_b>
I don’t see anything :'(
<scottstamp>
if you init the parent (user[1] = {}) it works
<scottstamp>
arya_b: that's the joke, lol
<arya_b>
ahh
<arya_b>
I want the key to automatically be an empty dictionary though
<arya_b>
like
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<arya_b>
it’s for an assignment where there’s users, and the users have a bunch of movie reviews, so I want this to be a hash of users where each user has a hash of movie to the review they gave that movie
<bradland>
>> user = Hash.new({});user[1][:foo] = 12;user[1][:foo]
<Nilium>
This also makes it effectively global but in a way that makes people who don't like global things happy
<Nilium>
Class variables are globals that people who don't like globals are okay with.
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<Nilium>
Don't ask why, it's a mystery.
<arya_b>
I guess class variables would work, but at this point I’m following our assignment which doesn’t work with classes
<Nilium>
Think of it this way, rather than making it global, just pass it through the program to where it needs to go.
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<Nilium>
If a function uses it somehow, it should be an argument to that function.
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<bradland>
Nilium: I’m curious how Class variables are the same as globals?
<Nilium>
bradland: They're global.
<bradland>
serious question. i’m always up to learn something new.
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<Nilium>
More specifically, a class is a constant, and that's globally accessible (usually). Might require you to be specific about the scope, but ultimately that's global.
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<Nilium>
Now, if you have a class variable, that variable is also global by virtue of being data in or attached to a global.
<havenwood>
Don't use global variables. Don't use class variables.
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<bradland>
Nilium: I see, so they’re equivalent because if you class Foo;@@bar = ‘baz’;end
<bradland>
Foo.bar is global
<bradland>
which might as well be $foo_bar
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<Nilium>
Effectively.
<bradland>
hrm
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<bradland>
well, i mean, i get it.
<Nilium>
It's only accessible within the scope of the class (or if you use class_variable_get), but it's global.
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<bradland>
i end up avoiding class variables because I don’t find that I need them. never really thought of them in that context though
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<havenwood>
Nilium: Scoped to the namespace, so it that sense not quite global.
<Nilium>
It's close enough.
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<shevy>
global ignores namespace!
<shevy>
goto $global man
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<IceDragon>
shevy: Make me a nice package manager pleas
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<IceDragon>
also hi
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<TheNet>
is there a name for using a string of letters as an identifier instead of a number?
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<shevy>
IceDragon rewriting it as I type!
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<IceDragon>
TheNet: a Symbol?
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<IceDragon>
TheNet: you mean something like "ACD1UU17XI10" ?
<TheNet>
more like that ^
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<IceDragon>
depends on the format I suppose
<TheNet>
eh, I guess I'll just make up a name :P
<IceDragon>
or
<IceDragon>
just call it an id
<TheNet>
already have an id
<IceDragon>
a sid?
<IceDragon>
string_id
<IceDragon>
:P
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<TheNet>
that's not bad
<TheNet>
thanks
<IceDragon>
np
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<bradland>
really like your blog design, Nilium
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<bradland>
not enough purple out there
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<shevy>
I like the monkey
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<Nilium>
shevy: Shush, it's a secret to everybody.
<Nilium>
bradland: Yeah, not enough purple.
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<agent_white>
I want to learn how to make a proper ruby sandbox soon... there doesn't seem to be any out there that are really _THE GOTO_ ruby sandbox.
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<bradland>
agent_white: saw some talk about that recently. seems it's a challenge.
<agent_white>
bradland: Yeah I'd been looking into it for the past couple months here and there... actually got me into looking at the ruby source for the first time.
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<agent_white>
bradland: As _why was talking about making a proxy symbol table in C to do it years ago... and apparently it was said that it was "hacking a lot at ruby internals" to do it.
<agent_white>
But... it has to be doable! Python has one, we should too!
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<Nilium>
Sandbox?
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<agent_white>
Nilium: Aye. Essentially, right now I'm looking at making a ruby eval IRC bot. My only option, so it seems, is to just run it in a linux container.
<agent_white>
(learning docker as we speak)
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<Nilium>
Ah. So, hell on earth in an attempt to make Ruby pretend it's secure.
<agent_white>
Nilium: Hm... I heard jruby was as well?
<Nilium>
I wouldn't consider anything with access to the JVM to be easy to lock down.
<agent_white>
Yeah. Still surprising there's no golden-standard for ruby as there is for python for doing such a task,
<agent_white>
If I were more experienced, I'd be hopping right on it! :P
<Nilium>
Especially considering the never-ending flow of JVM security issues — they get patched, but you have to be proactive about updating and making it impossible to abuse until patched
<scottstamp>
I'm generally bad at recursion, hopeless at tail recursion, and my regex is meh. Still didn't catch anything on fire.
<agent_white>
scottstamp: Hahah you had me at line 3. Badass that you got a commit into it! So you must know _some_ of what you're doing!
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<scottstamp>
Ehh, I dabble. I've been doing this for a while though. Hahaha, if you count it as coding, I started around age 9 with VB5
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<agent_white>
Oh damned... I made a CS 1.6 hack when I was 14, but truely have been at it for only a year now :)
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<scottstamp>
If you ask me, the most important thing is that you're doing it because you want to. As long as you've got that down, "skill" is just a matter of practice. :)
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<agent_white>
scottstamp: Amen :) ... I'm just practicing until I can stop making pizzas and start making code for a living!
<Cat_1>
I want to start a bakery and get out of the coding business...
<Cat_1>
maybe that's just me
<scottstamp>
Heh, I'm living life in the unemployed lane at the moment, sorting out some sleep disorder issues. It's a hobby for me atm.
<agent_white>
I tend to cattle/horses/sheep/etc., and make pizzas in the boonies!
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<agent_white>
... and drink cheap beer and shoot guns on occassion. ;)
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<scottstamp>
I'm up north, no guns for me. :(
<agent_white>
scottstamp: The 'deep north'? ;) I'm a dual-citizen to Canada due to majority of my family being in Alberta.
<scottstamp>
Also I used to treat my insomnia with an anti-psychotic medication so even if I did want to buy a rifle, I'd have to get like 80000 forms filled out
<scottstamp>
Newfoundland actually :P
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<agent_white>
scottstamp: Oh nice!
<scottstamp>
*boring
<scottstamp>
xD
<agent_white>
Hahah. I've heard it's beautiful out there though.
<scottstamp>
Oh yeah, absolutely gorgeous landscape. If you're into that.
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<agent_white>
I have a nice landscape of dead grass and pasture... nothing like living in colorado and not being able to see the mountains. /mildlydepressingcheer
<agent_white>
;P
<scottstamp>
I'd take Colorado any day, mostly for the legal bud. ;)
<scottstamp>
I've got friends in Nevada and California, too
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<SparkMasterTape>
best source to learn ruby is ________
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<agent_white>
Legal bud, mountains, and microbrewries of the gods... can't complain :)
<agent_white>
SparkMasterTape: irb/pry
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<SparkMasterTape>
should i learn php before ruby?
<SparkMasterTape>
i was suggested that by someone
<SparkMasterTape>
then ruby on rails 3rd
<SparkMasterTape>
over the years
<SparkMasterTape>
of course
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<scottstamp>
nah, if you wanna learn Ruby just jump right in.
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<scottstamp>
Knowing PHP won't help much, and PHP is... well... it's PHP
<SparkMasterTape>
whats the yeah
<porfa>
i have a view in sinatra, a simple table… is it possible for me to make it sortable, in the site itself? how is this possible?… what do i have to use? a diferent view maybe? (total coding newbz…)
<SparkMasterTape>
i think we were talking about learning web dev as a whole
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<SparkMasterTape>
whats the differences or strengths/weaknesses in python opposed to ruby
<scottstamp>
porfa: You'd want some sort of JavaScript running to handle that.
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<porfa>
scottstamp: that’s all i needed! googlin now!!! ty!
<agent_white>
SparkMasterTape: Well... PHP and Ruby are vastly different. What's your goal, is the important question.
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<porfa>
(i mean, i don’t mind reading.. but when you don’t even know what you’re looking for.. it’s kind of dificult :p thanks!!!! )
<SparkMasterTape>
Web development i want to know how to create a program that integrates with a website that integrates with a db
<ddd>
well, first off. joining a channel dedicated to a specific language and asking if you should learn a *different* language other than the one its dedicated to is.. well.. nuts.
<SparkMasterTape>
so basically, web development front end and back end
<SparkMasterTape>
and middle?
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<SparkMasterTape>
middle lul the client program
<ddd>
next, learning php has zero to do with ruby, so learn php if you have a reason to learn php. otherwise pick one of the two languages and go from there
<SparkMasterTape>
its not nuts
<SparkMasterTape>
i mean it could be against the rules
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<SparkMasterTape>
i just want tto hear pro ruby users tell me what the pros and cons are
<SparkMasterTape>
of a language they know
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<SparkMasterTape>
most programmers my company has know multiple and can say with an unbias what they think strengths and weaknesses are, or at least point out capabilities some have that another doesnt
<ddd>
next again, web development requires learning a bunch of different languages. The chief of them being HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Learn Ruby to learn a language that applies to a LOT more than JUST web development
<SparkMasterTape>
yes i understand
<scottstamp>
Well, there's a concept in programming called object-orientation, it's basically just a way of laying out programs and offers a way to think about how all your functions work together. It's a "feature" (if you can call it that) of both languages, but in PHP it's been implemented by a guy who should probably be wearing a helmet.
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<SparkMasterTape>
im not that inexperienced lol
<SparkMasterTape>
yeah i took java, Js, html in college
<SparkMasterTape>
java i got my ass kicked
<scottstamp>
Think of PHP as Java done wrong.
<SparkMasterTape>
didnt put the time in , was taking with a full load of gen ed class
* scottstamp
personally thinks of Java being Java done wrong, but I digress...
<SparkMasterTape>
didnt realize u gotta practice a lot
<ddd>
that applies to *any* language
<sevenseacat>
oh not this guy again
<ddd>
yes :)
<SparkMasterTape>
why has C++ remained so dominant
<SparkMasterTape>
or is it fading away at all
<scottstamp>
it hasn't.
<scottstamp>
it just isn't used much for web development
<SparkMasterTape>
ah, well i probably shoulda phrased as popular
<ddd>
I would suggest you google articles comparing the languages you want to learn, read more than a few of them, and then distill all of them down to the common nuggets between them all for a baseline of pros and cons, then try each language and judge for yourself
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<SparkMasterTape>
yeah i know pretty much what each ones specialties are, and capabilities
<ddd>
popular has nothing to do with it. C++ has its strong suits, but web development isn't one. Application development and library development is its strengths
<SparkMasterTape>
but python and ruby and perl i havent
<ddd>
SparkMasterTape, then you wouldn't be asking these kinds of questions here
<SparkMasterTape>
I took Java
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<SparkMasterTape>
Forgot all the syntax
<SparkMasterTape>
same with Js
<ddd>
but thats why you read multiple comparative articles on *those specific* languages and then try them for yourself to see if the articles hold water
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<SparkMasterTape>
and i started HTML when I was 13 but god into gaming, 24 now and getting on track
<SparkMasterTape>
got*
<sevenseacat>
someone poke me when he's finished filling the channel with dribble
<ddd>
well, i'm 44 and what i'm telling you is a damned good way to figure out what you want to know
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<SparkMasterTape>
sooo whats the strengths and weaknesses of ruby
<scottstamp>
You know, ##programming is a pretty solid resource for getting grips on the basics and pros/cons of differing languages.
<ddd>
sooo, do what was suggested
<SparkMasterTape>
thats like what u can tell me
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<SparkMasterTape>
sorry i thought an IRC people help
<SparkMasterTape>
apparently experience level is required
<SparkMasterTape>
and someone who is obviously very good at ruby knows
<SparkMasterTape>
its strengths or areas that they dont like, all im asking
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<SparkMasterTape>
is it off topic?
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<scottstamp>
just linked
<scottstamp>
click the link and read it
<SparkMasterTape>
kk
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<SparkMasterTape>
does it apply to ruby as well
<scottstamp>
GHNEWIUGTNHER59WGRT3W
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<scottstamp>
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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<ddd>
SparkMasterTape, those questions are better answered by google. or any channel dedicated to a specific subject would never get any work done for being busy answering what google can answer far better without messing with the channel focus which is *doing* stuff *in* the subject of the channel
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<SparkMasterTape>
@ddd That answer is longer than yes/no. I know ruby on rails is ruby specialized for web dev
<scottstamp>
no, you don't know that, because that's wrong
<SparkMasterTape>
didnt know if it had diff syntax as much as something like js and java
<scottstamp>
rails is a framework.
<havenwood>
SparkMasterTape: There's a lot to Ruby beyond Rails. Ruby is simple and expressive. A lot of people enjoy coding in it. It has a nice aesthetic. And foxes and chunky bacon
<SparkMasterTape>
well thats what i was led to believe
<SparkMasterTape>
Thank you havenwood
<SparkMasterTape>
and scott
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<ddd>
SparkMasterTape, ruby-lang.org. Look at the docs and the examples. compare them to the same on the sites dedicated to the other languages.
<troubadour>
Mmm, chunky bacon
<SparkMasterTape>
kk ty as well
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<ddd>
with chowder!
<troubadour>
And allegories, analogies, and post-scripts!
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<ddd>
and prescripts? ;)
<troubadour>
All the scripts.
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<ddd>
all your scripts are belong to us!
<ddd>
and thus to ruby!
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<SparkMasterTape>
wait
<SparkMasterTape>
so telling me im wrong
<SparkMasterTape>
in that ruby on rails is related with web dev
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<SparkMasterTape>
the first sentence of that link is "Some clients ask us why we choose to use Ruby on Rails to develop web applications instead of all the other web frameworks and languages."
<scottstamp>
I said it's a framework
<ddd>
SparkMasterTape, what is the difference between a language and a framework?
<scottstamp>
You can think of a framework of a program that runs *under* your program (or website, in this case, it's analagous)
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<centrx>
SparkMasterTape, Two major parts of Rails are the ORM (ActiveRecord) and the helper library (ActiveSupport), which are often used outside of web development and even outside of Rails
<scottstamp>
Rails itself is a program, which is written in Ruby, and your program which is also written in Ruby uses it to do a lot of common tasks, like interacting with a database or creating the HTML to send to the browser.
<ddd>
a language is what something is expressed in fundamentally. a framework is a grouping of code, configurations, and other common tasks written in that language and packaged together for a specific job. In Rail's case, web development.
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<SparkMasterTape>
thank you for that
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<scottstamp>
JSON will be the death of me. v_v
<SparkMasterTape>
u guys are gunna be getting to know me
<ddd>
as such a framework can not live independently of the language used to express it, whereas the language can
<SparkMasterTape>
im learning ruby, and i have you on auto connect :(
<centrx>
Delightful
<scottstamp>
wunderbar
<ddd>
just do your due diligence first before asking stuff.
<scottstamp>
Unrelated note, what was your college prof's name? So I can go beat him to death?
<scottstamp>
(kidding)
<ddd>
A) its far easier to help you if you have, and B) you won't get the reputation as a help vampire if you do
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<SparkMasterTape>
JC
<SparkMasterTape>
I didnt pass the class
<SparkMasterTape>
:P
<scottstamp>
lol
<SparkMasterTape>
Js i did
<SparkMasterTape>
he made me not want to program
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<scottstamp>
I've never bothered going back to school. I probably should some day.
<SparkMasterTape>
talking about sitting behind a desk freaking out over a bug for 10 hours with a deadline, and said hed see like code in the walls like hallucination
<SparkMasterTape>
like staring at a spiral too long or guitar hero
<ddd>
i'll be going back probably at the end of this currently running semester. so long as I can get someone to watch the kids for my last class
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<ddd>
SparkMasterTape, well that can happen
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<SparkMasterTape>
and i took a CCNA class skipping the prerequisite and learned that college programming classes and networking as well move at a quick rate
<ddd>
its not all writing new code. lots of this field is fixing existing code, or interacting with legacy code
<SparkMasterTape>
learned from my mistakes
<scottstamp>
or changing the same file 900 times because a client cant make up their god damn mind...
<ddd>
too friggin true
<SparkMasterTape>
you cant just do the homework you gotta tinker around once uve finished the assignment and see what you can make
<ddd>
SparkMasterTape, that applies to learning anything
<ddd>
at least if you want to actually do something not just say you took a course
<SparkMasterTape>
not the speed
<SparkMasterTape>
of college classes is what i meant
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<SparkMasterTape>
for a programming language
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<SparkMasterTape>
i dont know if any of you have CS degrees, but my JS has python, i believe its 1 semseter
<ddd>
you forget the classes are taught to the speed of the expected slowest in the class. (though many are slower than even that) AND classes *expect* for you to do more than just the homework assignment
<ddd>
especially in this particular field.
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<scottstamp>
You might find a website like Lynda.com, TeamTreehouse.com or CodeSchool.com useful. They're online course centric, you can learn at your own pace.
<scottstamp>
And it's pretty cheap.
<SparkMasterTape>
yeah i finally learned the 2 hours of class to 1 hour of class study style
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<SparkMasterTape>
minimum
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<ddd>
and work through rubykoans.com
<SparkMasterTape>
so no codeacademy
<SparkMasterTape>
is that too noobie
<ddd>
not for no exposure to ruby
<SparkMasterTape>
i imagined so with a 9 hour course completion time
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<SparkMasterTape>
avg*
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<SparkMasterTape>
awesome thanks guys
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<ddd>
it doesn't take much to learn the basic syntax. it *does* take more than that to make it sink and and *stay*
<ddd>
and plenty of non-course hours of tinkering and playing around not being afraid to break something
<SparkMasterTape>
yeah
<SparkMasterTape>
thats what i didnt do for Java
<centrx>
Java causes brain damage
<centrx>
You may have saved yourself
<SparkMasterTape>
all i remember from java is
<SparkMasterTape>
{}
<SparkMasterTape>
thats it
<SparkMasterTape>
it uses lots of { }
<SparkMasterTape>
objects
<SparkMasterTape>
methods
<ddd>
but if this really is something you want to do, programming, then you must be prepared to spend inordinate amounts of time *beyond* the classroom time to learn. because in this field, its learn by doing.
<SparkMasterTape>
i remember key words hahaha
<SparkMasterTape>
the paint object
<SparkMasterTape>
yeah im prepared
<ddd>
thats because its a C style language. recognized by the lots of {} etc
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<SparkMasterTape>
put in hours like kobe in the gym
<SparkMasterTape>
if u wanna be the kobe of your field
<SparkMasterTape>
competitions spawning every second
<ddd>
no, if you want to be the Kobe of your field, TRIPLE your idea of 'lots of time'
<SparkMasterTape>
yeah really
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<ddd>
if you want to know what you're doing competently DOUBLE your idea of 'lots of time'
<ddd>
if you just want to tinker, use your current expectation levels
<SparkMasterTape>
i live a mile or 2 away from him, he tried to get a chopper pad at his house
<SparkMasterTape>
the HOA denied it
<SparkMasterTape>
for practice in LA, but he still choppers out i think from john wayne
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<SparkMasterTape>
theres stories of him practicing with no ball lol
<ddd>
couldn't care less what those types do.
<SparkMasterTape>
4:30 AM
<SparkMasterTape>
cant sleep calls his trainer who gets paid so well hes on call and they go practice
<SparkMasterTape>
those types
<SparkMasterTape>
celebs
<SparkMasterTape>
or rich
<SparkMasterTape>
i hate the stupid rich but kobe isnt a dumb man
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<ericwood>
wow maybe I'm just drunk enough to write some CSS
<centrx>
My helicopter is so cool
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<SparkMasterTape>
whats the frequency on your remote control
<shevy>
1
<ericwood>
I'm doing a job interview thing and they sent me some frontend stuff to do via a mockup
<SparkMasterTape>
damn thats deep
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<ericwood>
but it's a PSD and I don't have any good tools to manipulate it
<SparkMasterTape>
Fox
<ericwood>
so I want to grab some info on sizing and fonts and stuff
<ericwood>
Preview.app views it just nicely but doesn't help with grabbing color names, font weights, etc.
<porfa>
or the link when you click on it.. im just training to get urls.. i cant get all the texts i want from a site… but when it comes to getting URL’s i just cant
<porfa>
i can get the 37€, the product descripts.. the percentage.. everythgin.. when it comes doesn to url links…i just can’t do anyhting
<mozzarella>
let me try
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<porfa>
i alwaysget nil :|
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<porfa>
grrrrrrr i nee to sleep or else ill throw the laptop into the air
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<porfa>
i feel so fkdumb lol snappadooddle! later!
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<DylanJ>
yo these ruby 'style guides' ban the use of 'and' and 'or'. isn't "something.returns_bool or return 'x'" more correct than "somthing.returns_bool || return x"
<livcd>
DylanJ: it looks better indeed :P
* scottstamp
prefers double-pipe and double-ampersand, personally
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<crome>
DylanJ: it may read better but there is a small difference between those operators that can bite you very hard. there is a reason why using them is often discouraged
<epitron>
of course, they are more tightly binding than "and" and "or"
<epitron>
like, if i did: connect "address" || fail
<epitron>
i think that turns into: connect("address" || fail)
<epitron>
the || binds to whatever's immediately on its left/right
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<epitron>
while "or" binds more loosely
<ypasmk>
hey all … i have an application where multiple classes share the same let’s say constants .. for example STATUS_COMPLETED = ‘completed’, STATUS_FAILED = ‘failed’ .. so write now every class maintain a set of constants which is duplication … what is best practise in ruby dealing with that kind of a problem?
<ypasmk>
a helper class that holds all the constant values?
<epitron>
DylanJ: sorry, by "pop out more" i mean, when you're skimming the code, the are more visually noticable
<epitron>
usually they show up a different colour too
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<epitron>
ypasmk: you could just use symbols
<epitron>
:failed, :completed
<epitron>
and don't use constants :)
<epitron>
i mean, what's the difference between typing STATUS_COMPLETED and typing :completed?
<epitron>
in a statically typed language that matters
<epitron>
in ruby it doesn't really
<ypasmk>
true … good point .. thanks
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<epitron>
there might be a better way to support what you're trying to do though
<epitron>
if many classes have the same kind of functionality, you might want to make a mixin module
<epitron>
include Statusable
<epitron>
or make a superclass
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<epitron>
in fact, if the logic for how things' states change, you might want to use one of the many fine state machine gems
<Pharaoh2>
OK who the fuck thought that a ObjectSpace.define_finalizer(self, @clean_proc) inside Tempfile's initialize was a good idea.... someone tell me this is a regression
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<ddv>
Pharaoh2: watch your language
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<Pharaoh2>
sorry :(
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<dideler>
is there an existing method in ruby like previous('c') => 'b'; previous(3) => 2 ?
<apeiros>
visof: if it ran on magic and pixie dust
<toertore>
they are excellent
<apeiros>
visof: but since it doesn't, no, it can't magically make your problems go away. hence: learn how encodings work.
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<brahman>
Morning, I am writing some code which needs to run on ruby 1.8.N and 2.N. I need to check the exit status of a popen3 command which I would usually do using waith_thr.status.success? This method is not available in ruby 1.8.N what would be the best approach?
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<toertore>
`if defined? yield`
<apeiros>
toertore: wtf?
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<apeiros>
is that an ugly way to write `if block_given?` ?
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<shevy>
visof you can set to binary encoding through e. g. # Encoding: ASCII-8BIT
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<toertore>
i don't know, i found it in the 1.8 source of popen3
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<toertore>
brahman: it doesn't look like you can do that in 1.8's popen3, but you could try using the open4 gem
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<toertore>
apeiros: i don't remember `yield` not being part of ruby either
<toertore>
eladmeidar: o/
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<brahman>
toertore: yeah definitely not in the 1.8 docs. What are the usual best practices for handling multiple versions of ruby?
<eladmeidar>
toertore: ola!
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<apeiros>
toertore: I started ruby with 1.8.0, but I'm pretty sure yield was part in 1.6 too. and probably earlier.
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<toertore>
brahman: lowest common denominator
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<toertore>
apeiros: yeah, i think i remember it from 1.4 even
<brahman>
so write the code for 1.8 and do not use the 2.0 features?
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<toertore>
brahman: pretty much
<brahman>
:(
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<toertore>
or implement the 2 features you want yourself
* brahman
likes waith_thr.value.success?
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<brahman>
that's a fair point. will look at that.
<brahman>
Thanks toertore
<toertore>
brahman: if you look at the source of popen3 it's just putting a bunch of pipes in, you could do that manually
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<toertore>
brahman: though, i'd look into open4 and see if that works with 1.8 first if i were you
<wasamasa>
"Almost every stupid "my website looks like gibberish" or "she can't read my emails when I use accents" problem comes down to one naive programmer who didn't understand the simple fact that if you don't tell me whether a particular string is encoded using UTF-8 or ASCII or ISO 8859-1 (Latin 1) or Windows 1252 (Western European), you simply cannot display it correctly or even figure out where it ends."
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<glen>
hi. in perl i can use alternative regexp separator: if m{/johhaidii}, then what's ruby's?
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<glen>
as i want to match '/' and this looks uglyx: /\//
<canton7>
glen, %r{}
<glen>
Ah. damn, right! thanks
<glen>
btw, what's the difference with %r[] and %r{} ?
<canton7>
none
<canton7>
you can use whatever separator you like
<canton7>
%r||, etc
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<glen>
ah, so it's like perl's m !
<canton7>
(there are probably restrictions)
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<canton7>
probably directly inspired by it, yeah
<glen>
yeah, like '%r / ' (space
<shevy>
:>
<shevy>
perl users directly translate into ruby, like eam
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<glen>
but in ruby can i omit parems too when calling function?
<glen>
l = t.split(%r[/]) -> l = t.split %r[/]
<glen>
aside. if i'm about to return array from method. stupid simple way would to do: 'a= new Array; a.push(value); return a', but in ruby i can use some blocks to do so to yield a value in loop which gets returned as whole function?
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<canton7>
yup, you can
<canton7>
beware precidence though
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<toertore>
%x, one of the few good things ruby took from perl
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<canton7>
not sure what your aside is asking
<canton7>
to return a single element array, just return [value]
<workmad3>
MrSparkle: your ordering should go 'try something out in irb' -> 'google it (and don't be impatient)' -> 'ask here'
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<sevenseacat>
guardian: why shouldnt it?
<workmad3>
MrSparkle: not 'google and get annoyed that it took 5s' -> 'ask here' -> 'try it and then tell IRC you just did that'... that way annoys people here :)
<PierreRambaud>
guardian, symbol and string are differents
<guardian>
yeah I'm discovering this
<guardian>
symbols are sort of strings though
<workmad3>
sort of in a not-a-string kind of way
<sevenseacat>
sort of if you mean not at all
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<agent_white>
workmad3: Amen.
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<agent_white>
Exhaust all resources, go to IRC... and only if the world is on fire (of if you set it on fire), post on stackexchange.
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<agent_white>
Rather SO should require ~2-3 years experience to post a question, imo.
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<ddv>
some people like to come to #ruby first
<pontiki>
morning
<ddv>
:-)
<pontiki>
someone is bound to answer
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<workmad3>
agent_white: I'm not sure I'd go that far... but something like remove all questions posted by people with less than 5k rep from google search would be good, as would only showing said questions to people with > 12k rep in listings
<workmad3>
pontiki: afternoon
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<pontiki>
workmad3: how goes?
<pontiki>
it's Thor's day
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<workmad3>
pontiki: not too bad... just filling in backbone models atm :)
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<ddv>
backbone.js?
<workmad3>
pontiki: and yes, it's a fine Thor's day today, after a rather gusty Odin's day yesterday
<workmad3>
ddv: yeah
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<ddv>
I like how Ruby makes models so much prettier than JS ever will
<pontiki>
no one has invented a drink called "The Mjölnir" ??
<emirozer>
assembly is prettier than JS
<emirozer>
:P
<emirozer>
even*
<pontiki>
seems like one could use a shot to head on Thor's day to get going
<workmad3>
pontiki: or one called "Sleipnir's kick"
<pontiki>
that'd be good, too
<workmad3>
pontiki: it's almost like most people don't know their nordic mythos well enough to understand that sort of naming :(
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<pontiki>
akavit, everclear, and OJ
<headius>
Nilium: tryruby.org and a couple code schools use JRuby to secure user-provided code
<pontiki>
or pom juice to make it red
<ddv>
emirozer: I doubt it
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<pontiki>
vodka maybe instead of everclear
<workmad3>
pontiki: hehe :) how about having Sleipnir's Kick as non-alcoholic... it's a double-shot of espresso with half a dozen Pro-plus dissolved in... :D
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<pontiki>
need more than a double shot
<workmad3>
pro-plus == caffeine tablets
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<pontiki>
ah
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<MrSparkle>
yeah yeah, I was having restroom urges, wasn't thinking good
<MrSparkle>
it will never happen again!
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<ddv>
MrSparkle: what?
<pontiki>
perhaps he's purged his innerds
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<apeiros>
workmad3: I think there's a word for that too :)
<workmad3>
apeiros: I'm sure there is... I'm curious if it's 'arsonist' though ;)
<apeiros>
I don't think so
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<apeiros>
anyway, today, anything you do which somebody deems "bad" is simply "terrorism"
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<ddv>
apeiros is a terrorist
<workmad3>
according to Saudi Arabia, I'm a terrorist...
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* apeiros
freedombans ddv
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<pontiki>
it's due to a couple things: the news cycle and the non-demilitarization of the world following WWII
<workmad3>
apeiros: I definitely match one... dunno about others :)
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<agent_white>
workmad3: I agree :) It's just unfortunate that many new folks use SO rather than exhausting other resources. I've been coding for ~1yr, and linux-stuffs for ~8, but have yet to need to touch SO :)
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<pontiki>
like, how can you possibly gain the world's attention if people are just murderers anymore?
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<agent_white>
Getting naked! \o/
<apeiros>
pontiki: related to that - I found it horrible how much attention of the media went towards the criminals
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<pontiki>
pfft, happens every day
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<agent_white>
Maybe. Or high-fiving everyone. I like that too!
<apeiros>
they should have published the pictures and the raw basics and focus all the other energy on showing the victims.
<pontiki>
o//'s agent_white
<agent_white>
\\o
<sevenseacat>
i like SO.
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<agent_white>
I love SO. But am not worthy.
<shevy>
SO makes cats purr
<sevenseacat>
i crave points. moar pointssssss
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<pontiki>
my most famous SE question is a cooking question :D
<workmad3>
sevenseacat: use my strategy for points - get on there within the first year of it being up, answer a few really easy but very upvotable questions and then just watch the points roll in over time ;)
<agent_white>
One day... one day I'll make an account. But I have no bidnaz doon that now. If I can't find an answer to my question, I'm not trying hard enough. :)
<sevenseacat>
heh
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<sevenseacat>
my boss did that, didnt look at SO for ages and came back to like 10k points and a bunch of gold badges
<sevenseacat>
lucky sod
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<workmad3>
sevenseacat: yeah... I left it alone for like 4 years... 13k points when I next looked
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<pontiki>
sevenseacat: that is a great question
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<sevenseacat>
aw thanks
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<agent_white>
sevenseacat: ADD-PI here, I more than relate to your question :) What was the fix to your answer?
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<pontiki>
i hesitate to ask the question that bothers me the most, though it's related to that one
<agent_white>
s/answer/question
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<pontiki>
"What do you do when the people you are working for/with are too stupid to live?"
<pontiki>
or sommat
<sevenseacat>
lol ouch
<pontiki>
but it's really how do i keep going when they've pissed me off
<agent_white>
pontiki: ... have a swimming contest!!!
<workmad3>
pontiki: rectify the situation?
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<sevenseacat>
i actually posted that question like 2 days before i made the decision to learn rails
<sevenseacat>
so i guess the answer was, try something new.... someone answered that
<pontiki>
yeah, "learn something new" is a great idea for that boredom
<pontiki>
i think i've learned over the decades that i have to make something every day, at least
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<agent_white>
I like that idea :) Something exciting everyday!
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<pontiki>
it doesn't have to be in software either. sometimes for me it's picking up my sketchpad, sometimes it painting, sometimes it's working out a chord progression
<pontiki>
anything, really
<pontiki>
sometimes it's making a new recipe
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<pontiki>
tho cooking has become a chore anymore
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<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
computers eat cooks!
<workmad3>
pontiki: a lot of mine at the moment is maths and physics
<agent_white>
whatthefuckshouldimakefordinner.com -- has saved me quite a few times :)
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<billy_ran_away>
Cucumber specs aren't running
<billy_ran_away>
canton7: thanks for looking :)
<canton7>
sorry, you'll need to give us *far* more information
<canton7>
what command do you run? what output do you get? what output are you expecting?
<billy_ran_away>
I run rake :first_half and I get the test output but Cucumber doesn't start running
<billy_ran_away>
no symbol
<billy_ran_away>
rake first_half
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<billy_ran_away>
canton7: but rake byitself starts Cucumber fine
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<SHyx0rmZ>
from what I can tell I'd say you have to wrap the tasks in a namespace
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<avril14th>
that's right
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<_littleb>
hi people, I have been trying to install redmine from source, but it requires the gem "arel v6.0" or greater to be installed. since it is a clean installation I did a "gem install arel" and that didn't change anything because I have got v3 installed. Can someone help?
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<_littleb>
my os is debian
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<avril14th>
gem install arel 6.0 ?
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<_littleb>
didn't know that it would be that easy
<avril14th>
worked?
<_littleb>
and how do you remove a gem?
<avril14th>
gem --help
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<avril14th>
you can check that with :source_location
<bradland_>
jheg: activesupport is available, and can be used, outside of rails
<jhass>
_littleb: did you read the output?
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<_littleb>
i did, it is partially installed. an uninstall and a install didn't work
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<jheg>
bradland: so is activesupport independent of both Ruby and Rails but can be used by both?
<jheg>
as is included with Rails as standard?
<jheg>
*and is includ…..
<bradland>
jheg: activesupport is a gem just like any other. in the past, it was more tightly coupled to rails, but these days, it's easier to use outside of rails.
<avril14th>
yes, so include it an have fun
<bradland>
you can `gem install activesupport`
<bradland>
and require it like usual. much of its functionality comes in the form of mixins though.
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<bradland>
and you generally shouldn't require the whole thing. only the parts you need.
<jheg>
it was only because I was trying to make an errors message string plural (or not) in the event of # errors
<jheg>
but the rails one prepends the actual number which I didnt want and the activesupport one doesnt
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<bradland>
jheg: install the activesupport gem
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<bradland>
then require 'activesupport/core_ext/string' in your code
<bradland>
i think that's where pluralize is
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<jheg>
thing is it works in the rails app im working on so it must already be included
<bradland>
you should definitely read that if you're going to use it outside of rails
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<jheg>
thanks!
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<bakis>
Are there any test-unit experts here? I'm trying to use test-unit but i need SAFE level 3, and it seems that somehwere in test-unit assertions it's using an accessor which SAFE level 3 doesn't like
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<bakis>
It seems to come from reading in an environment variable: size = ENV["TEST_UNIT_MAX_DIFF_TARGET_STRING_SIZE"]
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<juanca99>
Hey guys could someone explain to me what would be the difference between a gem and an app on ruby
<juanca99>
i come from haskell so i'm not quite sure yet
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<apeiros>
juanca99: gem is a way to package things. can be a library, an executable (or multiple), data … you name it
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<apeiros>
usually it is a library, sometimes accompanied by an executable
<apeiros>
an app… well, that's whatever somebody built with ruby and declares to be an app :)
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<juanca99>
apeiros: i see, it's just that i wasn't sure how to call something i'm doing to make system calls and post it on a server
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<juanca99>
apeiros: thanks man
<apeiros>
the proper name for that would probably be "a script"
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<juanca99>
apeiros: not really, i has some logic and after long time programming functionally i'm using objects again
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<apeiros>
still a script :)
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<juanca99>
apeiros: so a new question, what would make it an gem?... i mean i'm using gemfile... ruby_version, rakefile... i must say that i'm still new on ruby
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<bradland>
gems can be installed using the package manager, rubygems
<elfuego>
for some reason I can’t get the line number with this piece of code #{caller_infos[0]} : #{caller_infos[1]}
<elfuego>
on windows
<bradland>
a gem is composed of all the library/application files, as well as a .gemspec file, which tells rubygems how to build the gem
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<elfuego>
does anyone familiar with this?
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<bradland>
the Gemfile is used by a tool called bundler, which is a dependency management system
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<bradland>
not all ruby apps are packaged as gems
<bradland>
so if you're building a ruby app (such as a rails app), you can use bundler and a Gemfile to specify your applications gem dependencies
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<apeiros>
juanca99: a valid gemspec and subsequently packaging it up as a gem
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<borodin>
is bundler the best option for managing gems in a ruby app? My experience: I build an app and have tests running successfully, then I get a new project and I add that project in a different folder on the same machine, and get it's tests running, then I get time to go back to the first app, and now the tests are failing because of missing gems. It's chaos
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<waxjar>
borodin: i use gs to have a gemset per project
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<borodin_>
I was using rvm, but like I said, I got chaos
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<borodin_>
I may not be holding it right
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<borodin_>
I may try to use docker instead - a different container per project, maybe that will help :(
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<apeiros>
waxjar, zipkid: "implementing a String#byteslice" -> `class String; alias byteslice slice; end`
<apeiros>
since ruby 1.8 all strings are unencoded
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<ellisTAA>
hello. i’m doing some homework, and there’s something that i just don’t understand because my tests are failing. on the first test it is failing because it is returning nil instead of a time .. could someone take a look and let me know what i’m doing wrong and how i could fix it ? https://gist.github.com/ellisTAA/10239726d030a474239d
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<Senjai`work>
ellisTAA: Uhm, that's not an adequate test. It actually tests nothing
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<Senjai>
Your actually just assigning nil here
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<Senjai>
because measure called with an empty block is just nil
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<ellisTAA>
senjai: thanks for the response. so the test wants it to return not nil but a time between 0 and 1 second. .. i was wondering how to do this ...
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<ellisTAA>
senjai: i didn’t write the test, someone else did
<Senjai>
ellisTAA: Well, you'll have to change measure to return a numerical value first.
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<Senjai>
Then you'll have to do it in a way that satisfies the test
<Senjai>
If tests are here for you, just make each test pass one by one
<Senjai>
If the first test requires a 0, make measure return 0
<Senjai>
then make other tests pass iteratively
<Senjai>
ALA test driven development
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<ellisTAA>
senjai: that’s the part that confused me. to my understanding the test is running measure and timing it .. should i be timing the method and returning the difference?
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<waxjar>
ah, neat apeiros
<Senjai>
it isnt timing anything
<Senjai>
its calling the measure method
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<Senjai>
with an empty block
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<Senjai>
the measure method has no implimentation
<borodin_>
elapsed_time = measure doesn't measure the time it takes for measure to run
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<ellisTAA>
so should i put something like a = time.now, b= time.now, return b-a?
<porfa>
but it’s my problem, the tutorial i’ve done only explains how to fetch text from sites, not url’s
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<jhass>
what's the dfiference between a "site" and an "URL"?
<porfa>
and i have no previous knowledge on any sort of programing (i dunno if ms-d os batch filess count… lol)
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<porfa>
i’ll keep searching the web for tutorials so i’ll stop feeling like a dumbass.
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<porfa>
because you guys in here make it look so easy..! i wanna reach that level
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<porfa>
i’ll steal the books from the vatican if i have to
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<kennym>
porfa: what's your point?
<kennym>
best way to learn is by doing
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<porfa>
im doing it, im doing it, i’ve learned alot in the last week.. but when it comes down to fetch href instead of text i just can’t get it.. i don’t even know what i am looking for (to read/learn)
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<porfa>
i know someone in here would give me the code i want, but i dont want that i wanna learn to make it on my own
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<GaryOak_>
I think he's talking about grabbing the href out of a link, instead of the text
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<jhass>
we probably should make an faq for it somewhere
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<constantlurking>
i wish there was a way to see exactly what the computer was doing at a low level when it executes my code
<jhass>
jwilson_: iirc dependencies should be a symbol, string or array of either, not a hash and certainly not an empty one
<constantlurking>
i wanna see the ruby interpreter's "thought process" if you will
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<jhass>
uhm, there are many many layers of abstractions between the CPU and the ruby vm still ;)
<jhass>
so "low level" is kinda vague
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<jhass>
you can get the AST for a piece of ruby code
<constantlurking>
true. i guess i mean one level lower
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<constantlurking>
because the best help to me has been looking at the error messages in the console, but that only works if the code is completely broken
<constantlurking>
what's sat?
<constantlurking>
ast*
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<havenwood>
constantlurking: Are you a person or a computer? Ruby is for people.
* deepy
wants an abstract syntax plant
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* jhass
wants a cookie
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<deepy>
jhass: if you pop by north Sweden I'll buy you a beer
* apeiros
hands jhass an abstract cookie
<deepy>
or a bear, depending on which is more readily available
<apeiros>
you guys drink bear?
<deepy>
apeiros_: becuase of EU rulings you can't do that without his permission
<havenwood>
deepy: just learned how northern swedish folk say "yes", fascinating
<constantlurking>
havenwood: i'm a person with an incessant need to know why
<havenwood>
kissy sound
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<deepy>
havenwood: the inhaling kind of yes?
<havenwood>
deepy: yeah!
<jwilson_>
thanks jhass. that's how the tutorial I'm following did it, and it works that way. I had it wrong on line 21. Should have been "task name task_dependencies do"
<jwilson_>
running into a diff error now, but at least I can move forward
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<deepy>
havenwood: it's very versatile, but the true power of the north is in the Swedish word 'he'
<apeiros>
talk while you inhale. how efficient :D
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<havenwood>
apeiros: full duplex
<jhass>
jwilson_: yes, that was where you were passing an empty hash as dependency
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<apeiros>
plerp. can't motivate myself to code.
* jhass
hands apeiros the abstract cookie back
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<jhass>
you need it more apparently
<havenwood>
Sometimes you want a Concrete Semantics Rock rather than an AST.
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<jhass>
don't think CSS can do that, XPath might, but I'd just use Nokogiri::XML::Node#[]
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<porfa>
hmmm ok
<jhass>
at_css(...)['src']
<porfa>
!!!
<centrx>
nth-child doesn't really work properly in Nokogiri IIRC
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<jhass>
centrx: attribute, not child element
<porfa>
it outpus me nil
<porfa>
( http://www.pouparbem.com the website im trying to scrap the first image, the ones with the chairs)
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<jhass>
well, you want to select the img element first I guess
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<porfa>
hmmm
<jhass>
currently you're at the div
<jhass>
so descend into the img
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<porfa>
how do i descend as in, whats the synthax? that’s my main issue.. always was with programing.. the synthax
<deadmund>
Can someone recommend a tutorial / web site to help me get up and running with hello world ruby on rails website running on a server web server on my local machine? I've googled put I'd like a recommendation from a person about a tutorial that is good, rather than one that has just been SEO'd to the top.
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<jhass>
.imgOferta img
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<jhass>
deadmund: guides.rubyonrails.org isn't that bad actually
<jhass>
has a getting started thingy that builds a basic blog
<deadmund>
jhass: thanks
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<jhass>
for your further Ror questions check #RubyOnRails instead though ;)
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<bradland>
deadmund: do you have a working ruby install yet?
<deadmund>
jhass: thanks
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<deadmund>
bradland: no
<bradland>
ok, most rails tutorials start with rails, which won't include a guided ruby install
<bradland>
what OS are you using?
<bradland>
we can steer you in the right direction
<pussygladiator>
Does ruby have something like that so I can check my web server is properly configured?
<bradland>
deadmund: a ruby manager allows you to switch between ruby interpreter versions quickly and easily
<bradland>
most come bundled with a tool that builds ruby interpreters for you as well
<jhass>
porfa: no, decending into the img element should be part of the CSS selector, as I've shown
<deadmund>
bradland: Really, is it a good idea to switch between interpreter versions? Can't I just install 2.0 and forget about it?
<bradland>
there are three main ones: RVM, chruby, and rbenv
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<bradland>
deadmund: you could, but ruby moves fast, and distro packages tend to fall behind
<porfa>
ofertas.at_css('.img.imgOferta’) ?
<bradland>
for example, ruby is on 2.2 right now. is 2.0 the latest apt package available?
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<jhass>
porfa: no, that would search for an element that has the class img as well as the class imgOferta
<jhass>
porfa: check the backlog
<deadmund>
bradland: ehh, this is just a little project. I don't care about it lasting more than a few months. Yes it seems 2.0 is the newest in Ubuntu 14.04. I'm gonna switch to #rubyonrails if you want to keep talking
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<porfa>
whwre do i start learning this stuff? im just so tired of comming in here askng for help everytime i need something.. you guys dont work for me.. goddamit
<porfa>
i just can’t handle this stuff, it’s to much for me
<centrx>
meditate
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<porfa>
i’ll wax on/wax off my car now.
<bradland>
pussygladiator: there is no "phpinfo" equivalent in ruby, but there are some simple ways to verfiy your app server setup, but it depend on the server.
<bradland>
what server are you running?
<pussygladiator>
nginx
<pussygladiator>
w/ passenger
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<bradland>
ok, so passenger is a "rack" web server, so you can drop in a simple rack config and hit the vhost to see if it works.
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<pussygladiator>
how would I do that?
<pussygladiator>
what would I google for a quick guide?
<porfa>
everthiung in that tutorial works, but even in that tutorial when i do that line… to fetch me the URL, it outputs NIL.
<centrx>
dopie, a lot of people probably
<havenwood>
dopie: Have a Jekyll question?
<porfa>
so.. maybe i was doing the right thing in my main script as it was still outputing NIL… whats missing in that line for it to output me the url in readable form?
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<dopie>
well im tyring to deploy with capistrano , and using nginx and I get this weird error
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<centrx>
porfa, It looks like it should work as is...
<ReachingFarr>
So I am the maintainer of a couple of gems and I would like to see if there are any gems that use mine. Is there an easy way to do this?
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<centrx>
porfa, How are you testing it?
<porfa>
does it work there? in here irb says “nil” :(
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<windowlicker>
Hey guys. working on euler problem 3 (largest prime factor of a number) I'm close but my return statement isn't working and I'm stuck in an endless loop. pls halp https://gist.github.com/tu98/084b2ec00418095bd48f
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<staticshock>
windowlicker: are you sure your return statement isn't working? because if you have an infinite loop, you'd likely also have it for smaller values.
<staticshock>
i think it's much more likely you're just running a really slow program on a really large value.
<GaryOak_>
that's what it looks like to me, that number is really large, and you are dividing possible trillions of trillions times
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<ellisTAA>
quick question. if i get the error message: “wrong number of arguments (0 for 1)” does that mean i am asking for 1 argument and i am not getting it?
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<bradland>
ReachingFarr: not sure you can do the inverse of `gem depencency` directly.
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<centrx>
ellisTAA, @book.title = "x" calls a separate assignment method
<centrx>
ellisTAA, which you would define as: def title=(name)
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<ellisTAA>
centrx: could you sya a little more, i don’t quite understand
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<cphrmky>
best way to display an object's ancestors in pry/irb ?
<shevy>
.ancestors
<cphrmky>
ha!
<cphrmky>
this is why ruby is awesome
<cphrmky>
thx shevy
<shevy>
\o/
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<centrx>
ellisTAA, When you do: @book.title = "x", that's actually calling a method, equivalent to: @book.title=("x")
<centrx>
ellisTAA, and the = sign is the last character of the method name
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<tobiasvl>
ellisTAA: google "ruby accessors and writers" and you might understand
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<ellisTAA>
k thanks both of you
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<tobiasvl>
they're ruby's setters and getters, so to speak, if you know other languages
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<tobiasvl>
so you can either change line 21 to def title=(name), or line 12 to @book.title("inferno"). both will work. note however that you're never setting the title attribute/variable in the Book object, you just return the argument capitalized.
<tobiasvl>
that might suggest you should go for the second variant, or that you're not doing what you intend :)
<gr33n7007h>
tobiasvl, he left
<tobiasvl>
oh.
<tobiasvl>
I have joins and leaves on ignore. sorry.
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<pontiki>
good plan, so do i
<shevy>
me too!
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<GreatSUN>
Hi all
<pontiki>
screw all those joiners and parters
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<GreatSUN>
can someone tell me how to fix a problem with open-uri when trying to download something from http port 8080?
<GreatSUN>
using wget the download works properly
<GreatSUN>
with open I get Timeout::Error: execution expired
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<pontiki>
doing anything funny with the user agent, GreatSUN ?
<GreatSUN>
pontiki: not that I know of
<pontiki>
also cruft like accept header and so on can cause servers that care about such things to complain
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<pontiki>
or time out, etc
<GreatSUN>
forgot to mention that this issue comes up only in ruby 1.8
<mesmo>
hi all
<pontiki>
does it work in higher ruby versions?
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<GreatSUN>
yes
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<GreatSUN>
but I can not update ruby on the destination host
<pontiki>
i'd suggest not using open-uri in 1.8
<GreatSUN>
pontiki: and then make a switch for http, https, ftp, ftps and such?
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<pontiki>
yeah
<GreatSUN>
isn't there something else I could make use of?
<GreatSUN>
some wrapper gem like open-uri?
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<shevy>
GreatSUN perhaps you can use ftp?
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<shevy>
though if you use some website with http*
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<shevy>
then they often won't have ftp available, most likely not public ftp
<except>
hi! is there a good way to split a module between several files, and have all the code imported via a single 'require'?
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<arrubin>
except: Typically you create a file that does exactly that.
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<GaryOak_>
except: that's just like a gem
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<except>
i am, in fact, building a gem. what i would like to do is something like: require 'mymodule', and the directory structure to look like lib/mymodule.rb, lib/mymodule/part1.rb, lib/mymodule/part2.rb, etc.
<GaryOak_>
except: if you look at some other gems, they are truly outrageous, and you can see how they structure things
<bradland>
dopie: is jekyll installed through bundler?
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<bradland>
try changing your execute line to `bundle exec jekyll build`
<bradland>
er whatever command you're sending
<bradland>
just prefix bundle exec (if you're using bundler)
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<bradland>
also, IRC is shit right now, so I have no idea if you can read what I'm typing
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<dopie>
I can
<dopie>
im in the matrix
<bradland>
whew
<dopie>
but my matrix is from back in the 386 days
<dopie>
with 4ram
<bradland>
nothing like shouting in to the void
<dopie>
and 14.4kbps modem
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<dopie>
running Terminate 4.0
<bradland>
four emm-beeees baby!
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<bradland>
i was so happy when i upgraded to the gee-bees.
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<bradland>
brb
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<dopie>
fuck
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<Eminence_>
What ruby method would I use to create a cap? Like rounding, but the number shouldnt be rounded unless its greater than 100, then any excess would be rounded down to 100.
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<jhass>
[x, 100].max
<jhass>
er, .min
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<dopie>
jhass, any skills with capistrano :(
<dopie>
bradland, !!
<dopie>
yay!
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<dopie>
fucks sake
<dopie>
aha
<waxjar_>
Eminence_: you can give round a negative number
<jhass>
thankfully not
<Eminence_>
jhass: Thanks
<Eminence_>
waxjar_: ?
<bradland>
dopie: i'm back
<bradland>
sry, trying to get UTF8 working in irssi
<bradland>
fuck this looks like a great article already
<postmodern>
but VMs are cheap ;)
<bradland>
i don't run a version manager on my servers
<bradland>
i'm firmly in the "VMs are cheap, and my sanity is valuable" camp :)
<postmodern>
you can also install multiple rubies into /opt/rubies and set the desired Ruby in apache/nginx config if you're using passenger
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<terrellt>
postmodern: Purchasing VMs in my environment is literally throwing away money. I don't see a maintenance decrease in using direct paths to ruby binaries everywhere vs getting my path right to my stubs for rbenv.
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<postmodern>
terrellt, /opt/rubies/legacy
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<bradland>
until something in rbenv breaks
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<bradland>
debugging a path is a lot easier than tracking down shim redirects, etc
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<postmodern>
terrellt, basically your environment is not going to radically change, once you've configured it (however) it will be static
<bradland>
not to mention, stuffing PATH config in to my deploy files isn't something i'm digging much
<terrellt>
bradland: I'd have to do that anyways.
<bradland>
not if your user environment was set up correctly
<terrellt>
bradland: ? Again, we're assuming I have to run N versions of ruby here.
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<terrellt>
bradland: In happy-land, with one application running one version of ruby per VM, totally man. ruby-build it.
<bradland>
if you run one app per user, you can set the PATH appropriately in the user's profile