Topic for #ruby is now Ruby programming language || ruby-lang.org || RUBY SUMMER OF CODE! rubysoc.org/ || Paste >3 lines of text in http://pastie.org || Para a nossa audiencia em portugues http://ruby-br.org/
<slide> hrm seems macos has dtrace, not sure if they are even similar though
<slide> i dont know how to use either anyway lol
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<slide> ugh this is why i hate ruby
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<shevy> slide dtrace is why you hate ruby?
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<slide> well, this is the 30th problem ive had in the past hour....
<Okasu> shevy: no, macos if he hate ruby
<Okasu> is why*
<Okasu> slide: just write in Ada
<slide> helpful
<Okasu> yw
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<slide> UdontKnow, if ruby is trying to open a lib, does that mean it knows about the call?
<slide> or its missing a package that perhaps knows about it?
<idarkside>
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<UdontKnow> slide: then it does know about, but you need an OS-dependent package
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<slide> hrm, i definitely have openssl installed.... still cant figure out what file its actually trying to load though
<slide> ill try reinstalling openssl
<idarkside> no takers?
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<confounds> lol, 10 pounds
<idarkside> yeah
<slide> 10 pounds of what? ;)
<idarkside> script is simple
<idarkside> GBP
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<slide> Is there a way to force ruby to load a specific lib?
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<idarkside> maybe 315
<idarkside>
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<confounds> idarkside you're not counting the overhead involved
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<idarkside> wht u mean
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<confounds> gather requirements, make sure they know what you want, communicating, figure out how they'll get paid, chase you to get paid ;) and so on
<idarkside> nah ill pay b4 they send script
<idarkside> what i want is easy
<idarkside> there are a few scripts out there already that should be easy to copy from i can provide 1
<confounds> don't know. maybe post on some freelance coder site
<idarkside> lol
<idarkside> meh takes too long
<idarkside> id simple send as a gift via pp
<idarkside> then script delivery
<slide> hrm, shouldnt it be DL::dopen('libssl.dylib'); etc?
<idarkside> u lost me lol
<slide> (not talking to ya hehe, just thinking out loud)
<idarkside> ah lol
<idarkside> lemme knw if ur intrested
<idarkside> i have a script that is very simlar that works already i just need sum1 to adapt it to my needs
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<idarkside> i simply want this script adapting to my address and commands and a simple guide on how to add more commands
<idarkside> cant be more that 30 mins work
<idarkside>
<new_ruby_program> what does the @ symbol mean? when would i use it?
<shevy> new_ruby_program this is data. to instance variables
<shevy> you use it inside your class
<shevy> def foo
<shevy> @foo = 'this is now stored in @foo'
<shevy> it is like a normal variable, but resides in your object
<shevy> and is accessible throughout your object, in other methods of it too
<new_ruby_program> ohhh i see
<new_ruby_program> ty
<new_ruby_program> my head hurts now from studying too much :/ i needa take a break
<idarkside> lol
<idarkside> coffee
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<multi_io> ruby doesn't have optional arguments like def foo(arg?); ... end , right?
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<cyfirus> Hi
<cyfirus> i need some help
<multi_io> (I know it has def foo(*args) )
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<cyfirus> I have trouble installing ruby in debian pg when I get gem install pg says: Currently Requires the ruby pg / st.h header! I need to install to accept it?
<heftig> multi_io: you can have default values: def foo(arg=1)
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<Okasu> multi_io: just give it a default value
<multi_io> ah, default values. OK thanks.
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<jbhewitt> hi all - i'm wondering if anyone here know much about ActiveAdmin? I want to add a conditional to an edit form… if a setting is set in the model to show one form or another
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<iamjarvo> can someone give me the right terminology for this #<Twitter::User:0x007fce848020f0 @attrs={"listed_count"=>7
<iamjarvo> so what exactly is @attrs
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<csmrfx> attri bytes
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<iamjarvo> csmrfx: what do you mean
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<robert_> anybody have any experience with using the odbc gem?
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<gnychis> what is a good way to replace all 3's in an array like this: a=[1,2,3,5,6,3] with the number 9?
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<multi_io> is anyone out there actually writing Ruby 1.9-only code?
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<Okasu> multi_io: i am
<Okasu> 1.8 crap
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<Okasu> 1.8 can't rand(1..9), nonsense
<Okasu> and 1.8 haven't yarv
<Okasu> sad but true
<heftig> gnychis: a.map { |x| x == 3 ? 9 : x }
<multi_io> heftig: he wanted to replace, so it's probably map!
<Okasu> multi_io: do not yell on heftig!
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<multi_io> :P
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<skim1776> who has participated in rusoc?
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<t-mart> could someone tell me why I'm getting a TypeError "in `raise': can't convert String into Integer" on line 13 here (http://pastie.org/3116358)?
<t-mart> i used to be getting the same error for line 12, but it somehow went away
<t-mart> i've tried every logical parentheses combination i could think of, and still nothing
<Radar> t-mart: you need to convert the number to... well, a number.
<t-mart> and what's additionally funny, but probably revealing, is that when i put that same syntax in it's own file, it works
<Radar> t-mart: either block_size or columns is a String and not a Numeric.
<Radar> or Integer, rather.
<t-mart> hrm
<Radar> I suspect it could be columns and/or rows, given that you're passing 337 in to simplify in the code at the bottom.
<Radar> t-mart: to_i
<t-mart> yea
<t-mart> and 337 is Numeric
<t-mart> right?
<t-mart> maybe RMagick is doing something magical
<t-mart> to rows or columns
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<t-mart> hmm, i separated the if line and the raise line, and the problem is still reported on the raise line
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<Jonah11_> I need to create a hashmap where the keys are pairs of ints like (x,y) -- what's the best way to do that?
<heftig> { [3,2] => "foo" }
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<Jonah11_> heftig, ty
<heftig> or if you prefer: Point = Struct.new(:x, :y); { Point[3,2] => "foo" }
<t-mart> Radar, RMagick must have been defining it's own raise. saying Kernel.raise works =P
<t-mart> but then why is the 1st raise working!?
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<t-mart> kind of interesting how this channel's topic includes a link for portuguese. anyone know why?
<Radar> For the portuguese people that visit.
<Radar> Sorry, brazillian*
<t-mart> Are there a lot of Portuguese speakers that visit? Why just them? Is ruby somehow more used by Portuguese speakers?
<t-mart> I'm not saying this is bad, its just an interesting affinity
<banisterfiend> t-mart: seem to be a few brazillian rubyists, at least i have noticed a lot
<t-mart> yea, banisterfiend, i could name a few too
<any-key> Matz is Brazillian, it makes sense
<t-mart> o really? hehe
<banisterfiend> hehe
<any-key> it's true
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<Radar> any-key: NICE.
<Radar> t-mart: If we don't do it the Brazillians will kidnap our families.
<Radar> Or am I confusing them with the Mexicans? oh well.
<Radar> Home time.
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<Amirh> does ruby has the ability to write low-level apps? like C++ or Java?
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<banisterfiend> Amirh: give an example of the kind of thing u want to write
<Amirh> banisterfiend: for example, a web server
<ly-> Amirh: low-level apps doesn't really mean anything, Ruby is a high-level language, meaning there's a lot of abstraction layers between the hardware and the software
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<banisterfiend> Amirh: of course
<banisterfiend> Amirh: that's not particularly low level btw
<Amirh> so
<Amirh> what kind of work c++ can do which ruby can't?
<rethaw> the main reason you need low level is portability
<ly-> drivers
<Amirh> Operating system?
<rethaw> ruby is a replacement for perl and python, not designed for that kind of stuff afaik
<rethaw> however, if you really need portability in delivering some ruby app there are tools (Ruby2c)
<Amirh> can I build decent programming tool using ruby?
<rethaw> but it doesn't work for all of ruby
<rethaw> Amirh: be more specific
<banisterfiend> Amirh: stop asking vague questions
<Amirh> can I build a decent IDE using ruby? or a debugger?
<heftig> rubinius' bytecode compiler is written in ruby
<banisterfiend> Amirh: i wrote/am writing a debugger in Ruby, but to do some of the crazy stuff (like walking the callstack) i needed to drop down to C, but there wasnt much C required, and even next/step can be implemented in pure ruby (almost)
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<heftig> redcar is an ide written in ruby and java
<alem0lars> Amirh: you can. however ruby is a dynamically tiped language, so i would not use it for complex systems, like a bank software. I think small applications, scripta, websites are good example of ruby usabe.
<banisterfiend> alem0lars: that's what tests are for ;)
<rethaw> thats one of the lingering questions I have about ruby, maybe someone can answer
<banisterfiend> alem0lars: ruby ecosystem has such a strong testing emphasis that i'd wager ruby code is very robust
<rethaw> how well does ruby scale?
<rethaw> RoR even
<Amirh> Interesting. banisterfiend, you can use C along the ruby's code?
<banisterfiend> Amirh: yes, the C API is very nice
<Amirh> og it is bult-in
<Amirh> oh
<Amirh> cool
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<Amirh> SterNiX: to inja chikar mikoni?
<alem0lars> banisterfiend: yes, you are right. i was not talking about a weakness of the language, i love it. I was trying to say that i would prefex a statically tiped language with a more strong type safety for a bank soso
<alem0lars> software
<banisterfiend> Amirh: using ruby_inline you can even write C code in the same file as the Ruby code
<Amirh> banisterfiend: very cool dude.
<Amirh> so we can write anything using ruby.
<banisterfiend> alem0lars: well i'd like to see empirical data that ruby is less apt in those situations, because i have a feeling ruby would fare well even there if it was given a chance
<banisterfiend> Amirh: so long as you have C bindings or are willing to write C bindings yes you can pretty much do anything
<Jonah11_> why do i get a private method error when i call test here: http://pastie.org/3116817
<Amirh> banisterfiend: you think ruby is not going to last?
<banisterfiend> Amirh: i didnt say that
<alem0lars> banisterfiend: for example i think to write a parser or a concurrent software i would prefer haskell. for scripting purposes i would prefer ruby, but it's my opinion.
<burgestrand1> Jonah11_: because FixNum is not same as Fixnum
<banisterfiend> alem0lars: of course ruby is not the best tool for every situation
<banisterfiend> alem0lars: but i wouldn't relegate it to just 'scripting' either
<banisterfiend> up to you though
<burgestrand1> I’m writing bindings to a multithreaded C audio library in Ruby, no speed or performance issues so far and I’m streaming audio from the network with this thing
<burgestrand1> Ruby handles more than you’d think
<Jonah11_> burgestrand1, doh! but shouldnt it be giving me a "no method found" error, since i'm not even using the right class?
<alem0lars> banisterfiend: of course. this is what i would say to Amirh. it depends on which kind of software do u want to do
<banisterfiend> burgestrand1: but that's also because you're a programmer of talent and abilities beyond the average pig
<burgestrand1> Jonah11_: apparently there’s a protected method named test on fixnum :)
<banisterfiend> :P
<burgestrand1> banisterfiend: even if that were true it would not help if ruby could not keep up :p
<banisterfiend> ya
<Amirh> so glad that I asked that question. :)
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<burgestrand1> banisterfiend: you found a way to pass blocks to method calls from C yet apart from the hack with creating a proc to do it for you?
<banisterfiend> burgestrand1: no, i haven't had a need for that yet, what about u?
<Jonah11_> when extending an existing class like Fixnum, how can I add new class variables and ensure they are initialized? using initialize dind't work...
<banisterfiend> Jonah11_: just use the @blah ||= init_val trick
<burgestrand1> banisterfiend: naw, I work around it too, find it strange that it’s missing that’s all
<Jonah11_> banisterfiend, is there no way to add new code to be executed in initialize?
<banisterfiend> Jonah11_: Fixnums are always automatically initialized
<banisterfiend> they're not 'created', they already exist, they're like singleton objects if u want
<banisterfiend> 5 == 5
<banisterfiend> they're teh same object, tey're not two different instances
<Jonah11_> banisterfiend, right, ok
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand1: can probably do it in C actually using some mad skills
<banisterfiend> burgestrand1: by messing with the current 'frame' and pushing a block on etc
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<cjs> Is there some way of finding out the path to the ruby interpreter the current script is being executed with? E.g., /usr/bin/ruby or whatever?
<banisterfiend> but if that was possible easily there'd probalby be a helper for it (there might be in 1.9.3 who knows :P)
<burgestrand1> :p
<cjs> Failing that, what's a good way of displaying the "install" of Ruby that's being used on a system with several Rubys installed?
<cjs> Maybe grovelling through $:?
<banisterfiend> cjs: try RbConfig::CONFIG
<cjs> banisterfiend: Ah, thanks.
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: like you’ve been messing around with stack-explorer I’m sure you feel right at home with messing about in the ruby internals ;)
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: hehe i'd like to do more of that sometime
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: you used it again or get it to bug out/segfault?
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: nope, haven’t needed it much during the holidays I’m afraid
<banisterfiend> oh ok
<burgestrand> pretty much only coding on this music thingy :p
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: how far is it from release/announcement?
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: I’d say at least 2 months
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: but I am releasing tiny point-releases because it’s fun, but I want it to reach a certain point before 1.0, got loads of API changes in my head just waiting to happen
<burgestrand> or, well, big changes internally that is ^^
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<banisterfiend> oh ok
<Gekz> so which framework should I use for webapps?
<Gekz> :P
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<burgestrand> Gekz: sinatra, rails, padrino are the ones i usually evaluate
<Gekz> not heard of padrino
<burgestrand> also been meaning to have a look at goliath but chances are I won’t encounter a project where it’s useful
<Gekz> oh cool.
<Gekz> I try to avoid monolithic frameworks that I can't really reuse
<Gekz> I like using one ORM everywhere
<Gekz> so looks like padrino is the way to go :D
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: btw why did you make your internet nickname simply your last name
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: is that normal practice in sweden? cos i would feel kind of weird about just using the nickname 'mair'
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: because too many god damn people are named kim on the internet :p
<banisterfiend> ;)
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: and most of them are chicks i bet ;)
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: you wouldn’t believe the amount of free stuff I get when I game online
<banisterfiend> hehe
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: burgestrand is simply the name that’s pretty much always available, so all my nicknames in the past evolved and became… my surname
<banisterfiend> Yeah
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: what about giving yourself a weird pseudonym
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: like: zenspider, drbrain, _why, etc? :)
<banisterfiend> or do u find that kitsch
<burgestrand> hm, dunno, I like me being me I guess
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: im the opposite i feel kind of disturbed when i see someone with a nickname such as RichardSmith (i.e their full real name, capitalized)
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: hah, I agree with you on that one, it feels weird
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: are tehre any adapters to charge your macbook from a usb port?
<banisterfiend> if so, you could share battery between all your devices, macbook, tablet, smartphone (with another adapter), that'd be pretty handy IMO
<banisterfiend> i just wonder how efficient it is
<rethaw> no
<banisterfiend> it just feels asymmetrical i can charge my tablet off my laptop, and my phone off my tablet, but not my laptop off my phone/tablet
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<rethaw> I think USB is rated for 5V
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<heeton> banisterfiend: Remember that a laptop battery is far larger than an iPad / Phone
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<heeton> Looking at iPad / Macbook for instance, it's 25 Wh against 75Wh. So, you'd only get a third of your laptop charged from your entire iPad2
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<heeton> (And I believe the laptop battery requires a higher voltage than the iPad or USB could provide)
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<jnh> Hi all. I'm trying to create a queue using fibers so that when each is called it waits until the queue has more content before yielding, but I get a double resume if I push things onto the queue faster than they are read - is there a way to tell if a fiber is currently yielding or anything? #alive? doesn't give me what I need.
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<sj26> jnh: you will never be able to resume a fiber from within itself
<jnh> no, the queue is being pushed onto from an external callback.
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<sj26> Fiber.current?
<sj26> what are you doing? can you gist it?
<jnh> sj26: sure. give me two minutes.
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<jnh> sj26: let me give you a bit of context on the problem I'm trying to solve: I have an EM based service which outputs JSON periodically (it's a message passing service). I want to send these to the client via Rack, so I'm trying to make a queue type object where when rack calls #each it simply waits until there is data available before calling the block.
<sj26> okay
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<waxjar> jnh, isn't that what #defer / Deferrables are for?
<jnh> it doesn't seem to work because I can't yield the fiber from the outside (rack is running in the root fiber)
<jnh> waxjar: maybe so. I found the EM rdoc less than helpful on what a deferable actually is for.
<sj26> yes, I don't see why you're using fibers here
<waxjar> i agree, Ems documentation kind of sucks
<waxjar> i found a PDF that clarifies it a bit though, let me go trough my bookmarks
<sj26> indeed, the docs are a bit naff
<sj26> (I did something similar with fibers and responses here: https://github.com/sj26/zipstream/tree/master/lib/zipstream)
<waxjar> with #defer you basically have two Procs, one 'operation' that calls the 'callback' Proc when it's done.
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<sj26> jnh: I think you might be better off using a http://eventmachine.rubyforge.org/EventMachine/Channel.html
<sj26> for each request, construct a response triple with a body object which actually iterates from a channel
<sj26> then push data into the channel as neccessary
<sj26> eventmachine takes care of the non-blocking machinery
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<sj26> waxjar: yes, I've read that one :-)
<jnh> the problem is that Rack isn't evented.
<sj26> have written my own bindings for libev and done quite a bit of evented work
<sj26> jnh: correct, but as long as you return a body which blocks on each it's all good mate
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<jnh> right.
<jnh> that was my idea.
<jnh> I don't see how EM::Channel would be any good - the subscribe idea is backwards to what I need.
<jnh> Ahh. Pop.
<jnh> next question; will Rack choke if there is a number of connections all blocking on each waiting for more input?
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<jnh> I expect it will block the entire thread, right?
<sj26> jnh: yup, except if you use something on top which uses eventmachine and/or fibers
<sj26> so you could run inside thin
<jnh> sj26: this is what I'm trying to avoid. I'm trying to put a service designed to run on thin inside my rails app.
<sj26> yup, so if you use thin then a single response becoming blocked means thin will handle the next response until it's able to come back and finish the first response
<sj26> hence how websockets and friends run inside thin
<sj26> (like skinny, the websocket upgrader I wrote for thin and rails/sinatra)
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<sj26> basically you need to make eventmachine block inside your body iterator
<sj26> which is why a channel works
<sj26> it blocks until the next item arrives, iirc
<sj26> actually, the queue might be better (duh_
<jnh> maybe i am just making a hash of it, but I was hoping to be able to deploy on passenger and develop on pow :/
<sj26> passenger won't work
<sj26> it's purely threaded
<sj26> and generally runs one thread per process
<sj26> iirc, pow does async above the app level, so same problem
<sj26> you need to run in unicorn, thin, etc.
<sj26> jnh have you considered using pusher or another hosted service to do this for you?
<jnh> damn. this is going to be the end of me :)
<jnh> sj26: I was wanting to use faye and wrap observers around key models to notify clients of CRUD events immediately.
<sj26> faye will work fine, but that won't live inside passenger, again iirc
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<sj26> and if you're using faye you don't have to worry about the response yielding stuff yourself
<sj26> just push to faye and let it do the work
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<jnh> sj26: well I was trying to modify faye's rack_adapter so that it doesn't use thin specific async responses.
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<sj26> ah! yes, well it won't work inside passenger regardless... requires an async server.
<sj26> but you could host faye outside your passenger server, even using the node version or similar
<jnh> okay, so I can live with deploying on thin in production.
<jnh> yes, so then I just connect my model callbacks to an actual faye client instead of the server's built in client.
<jnh> but that seems much more brittle.
<sj26> i agree, i prefer having it all together
<jnh> but deploying rails on thin is not a big issue since I can just point nginx at an upstream server.
<jnh> developing is a PITA though, I can't seem to get my dev environment to start on thin.
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<sj26> you've reminded me I need to get pow mdns support working again for railscamp -.-
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<sj26> yeah, looking over nack it seems pow is still linear per application process. https://github.com/josh/nack/blob/master/lib/nack/server.rb#L66
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<sj26> multiple client connections, but handling is pipelined
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<jnh> sj26: yes. seems a pity.
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<jnh> other option is to use the redis engine in faye and run two server processes.
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<sj26> jnh: well i'm off, good luck
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<jnh> sj26: cheers.
<jnh> thanks for your help.
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<becom33> why is this http://pastebin.com/pgzZwM3y giving me test.rb:7:in `*': can't convert String into Integer (TypeError) error
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* becom33 anyone ?
<rippa> because int is a string
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<becom33> but I input a int in ARGV[0]
<rippa> still a string
<rippa> "123"
<rippa> or something
<becom33> rippa: how can I fix it /
<becom33> ?
<rippa> int.to_i
<becom33> thanks done
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<lofic> can you use a module with an alternate custom name ?
<lofic> like in python when you do :
<lofic> import foo as bar
<rippa> Derp = Enumerable
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<lofic> ha yes
<lofic> so simple
<lofic> thanks, rippa
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<andreime> hello! i have a quick question: if in a module i have an extra field :something and a method something how do i call each in tests?
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<jamesfend> how would you all tackle this? A worker has 40 credits per month. A credit is used when they join a discussion for a project. The credits automatically renew every 30 days.
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<heftig> renew via cronjob.
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<hugalua> is this too much to ask for a 6th grader and 4th grader to work on? to make a command line choose your own adventure program; and also something that graphs polynomials as a PNG?
<hugalua> it's my X-mas challenge for next year - if they can do it, then they get 4x what they saved in their coin jars this past christmas
<hugalua> they have no background in programming thought. I think they can do it, as I don't think I'm asking for that much.
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<poclsolnuh> hi people)
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<`brendan> good morning folks
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<peterhellberg> Anyone here that use Goliath?
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<sandbags> anyone here using RVM and Ruby 1.9.3-p0?
<sandbags> i guess, in particlar, on a Mac
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<sandbags> if you can help me out with something run ruby -e 'puts $:'
<sandbags> and tell me what version number is in the lib/ruby/site_ruby/<ver> and lib/ruby/<ver> folders ?
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<tziOm> Does anyone know what "uninitialized constant Syck::Syck" comes from, and how to solve it?
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<peterhellberg> sandbags: .rvm/rubies/ruby-1.9.3-p0/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.9.1
<peterhellberg> sandbags: .rvm/rubies/ruby-1.9.3-p0/lib/ruby/1.9.1
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<sandbags> peterhellberg: thanks
<peterhellberg> np
<sandbags> i guess they just didn't change the version number
<sandbags> i wanted to make sure it wasn't an aberration that i was seeing 1.9.1
<sandbags> before looking into another problem :)
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<peterhellberg> My Goliath test app halts for a few seconds every 10-20k requests… anyone seen that happening?
<peterhellberg> sandbags: Yeah, good to check stuff like that before going on a wild goose chase :)
<burgestrand> peterhellberg: which ruby interpreter are you using?
<peterhellberg> burgestrand: MRI 1.9.2p290 and 1.9.3p0
<peterhellberg> Same thing happens on both of them
<peterhellberg> I’ve reduced it down to pretty much hello world-complexity and it still happens
<peterhellberg> And it is just _very_ slow responses, no errors
<burgestrand> peterhellberg: could it be that ruby so happens to throw a GC-run? have you observed the memory usage?
<peterhellberg> Just ran 100000 requests: 95% of them under 26ms, longest request: 20324
<burgestrand> peterhellberg: I’d probably try to see if I could profile it with https://github.com/tmm1/perftools.rb
<peterhellberg> burgestrand: You might be on to something there :)
<peterhellberg> Well, time to head to the Vietnamese embassy… (picking up my visa for a month long trip in a few weeks)
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* tnk1 is back.
<robert_> anybody have any experience with using the odbc gem?
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<linduxed> hey guys, i'm going to start rewriting a simple python application in ruby. before i start however, i want to try out this TDD thing (something i've never done) and from what i've heard, rspec is what i should use
<linduxed> is there a good, up-to-date rspec tutorial out there that you could recommend?
<linduxed> without rails, preferrably
<linduxed> i'll get to that later
<linduxed> right now it's only ruby i'm working with
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> brave man ;)
<shevy> I'd only know of https://www.relishapp.com/rspec
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<linoj> hi, i'm looking at the various veal methods in ruby, i'm looking for a relatively safe way to store a ruby expression in a database and evaluate it at runtime (specifically, need things like Time.now in a search condition). Any ideas for best way to do this?
<linoj> eval
<linoj> not veal :)
<mlue> yummy
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<shevy> no idea linoj. what I do know is that all *eval* take up a lot of processing power of my brain, so I tend to avoid them when possible
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<catphish> does anyone know if a mysql driver that's threadsafe and easy to use in a muntithreaded way?
<catphish> i usually use mysql2
<catphish> but rather than blocking, it raises an exception if you try to pull 2 simultaneous requests through the same instance
<catphish> i suppose i want a driver that either has an integral thread pool, or blocks allowing queued requests
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<catphish> i could always put the mysql config in a class variable and open a new connection on every instance, but i dont really want to
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<robert_> hii shevy :D
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<shevy> die!
<shevy> oops, sorry. wrong idiom :(
<shevy> hi robert_ :D
<robert_> heh :p
<robert_> how goes it? :D
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<shevy> dunno
<shevy> staring at old ruby code
<shevy> trying to make it look nicer
<shevy> very tedious :(
<shevy> http://pastie.org/3119028 that's a layout I have now ... not sure if it is better than how it used to be ... (it used to be a method, not a class)
<jmdev> Hi guys, What alternative to Ruby Koans you guys recommend?
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<misfitsu> is there a way to specify which CWD Process.exec executes in?
<misfitsu> I'm using Dir.chdir in the previous line but it's not taking
<canton7> shevy, do you have to instantiate a new class there?
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<shevy> canton7 not sure
<shevy> But I think so
<shevy> in the method, I now call ...
<shevy> def all_available_programs
<shevy> AllAvailablePrograms.feedback(CONFIG.programs_dir)
<shevy> I really don't know if it was better to move it to a class, or let it stay a method
<canton7> shevy, more to the point, do RBT::Base#opn, #cif, etc, require RBT::Base to be instantiated?
<shevy> oh hmm... that Base thing is just a common and shared module
<shevy> obviously my own layout confuses me
<shevy> it feels as if it is all growing over my head :(
<canton7> because if they can become static/module methods of RBT::Base, then you won't need the instantiation there... Not sure what's best without knowing the whole application, of course
<shevy> hmm yeah
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<canton7> however, some part of me really dislikes having a static method which instantiates the class. Which isn't part of a factory pattern, of course
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<robert_> shevy: be lucky you're not working with win32.
* robert_ gags.
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<shevy> robert_ hmm well I guess it only makes things a bit more complicated, but I can work within the "project logic" of a ruby project no matter the OS , I suppose
<robert_> yeah
<robert_> but I'm stuck writing a win32 c++ app for windows server.
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<mistaker> I have very basic beginners question about a small script I am running
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<mistaker> I am using hpricot to search a web page, and I want it to find the last data value in an HTML document table and return the value of just the last cell
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<v0n> hey guys, is there a way with MiniMagick to get a rgb stream from an image?
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<billy_ran_away> How can I add a variable'ly named instance method to a class (like define_method)?
<billy_ran_away> define_method when within a class will only add the method to the class, right?
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<v0n> any mini_magick user?
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<billy_ran_away> How can I define a new instance method from a class method for all instances of that class?
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<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: see Module#define_method
<apeiros_> also see Module#class_eval
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Thank you!
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: You helped me last time.
<apeiros_> you're welcome
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<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Here's where I'm taking the code you helped me with last time, https://github.com/billy-ran-away/maskable_attribute
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<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: some suggestions: use {} instead of Hash.new, also in `Array.wrap masks`, the Array.wrap is superfluous, masks is guaranteed to be an array
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: I'm trying to make the dynamically named (from the masked_attribute's name) getter and setters for each instance of that class
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: What if only one mask is passed?
<apeiros_> *args are always arrays
<apeiros_> try it in irb
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Cool
<apeiros_> beware, it can be empty too
<Tasser> apeiros_, as opposed to js? :D
<apeiros_> maskable_attribute(:x) # <-- valid invocation of your method
<apeiros_> Tasser: ?
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<Tasser> apeiros_, javascript.
<apeiros_> what's opposed to js?
<Tasser> apeiros_, *args is an array
<apeiros_> o0 since when does js have *args?
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: I'll throw an error if there are no masks defined
<apeiros_> though, js' `arguments` keyword can be treated like an array too…
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: raise
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<apeiros_> throw has a different meaning in ruby
<apeiros_> a good idea. e.g. `raise ArgumentError, "wrong number of arguments (1 for 2)" if masks.empty?`
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<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Awesome
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<robert_> anybody have any experience with using the odbc gem?
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: This is my first try at the getter and setters, no errors, but my test doesn't pass so I don't think it's working… https://github.com/billy-ran-away/maskable_attribute/commit/795f5d2f3920c857ae426b05a0980b209ff7e6ba
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<apeiros_> robert_: somebody might have (I don't, and notice, this kind of question is pointless)
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<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: unrelated to your issue: `self.send(:define_method` - omit the self.send(: part
<apeiros_> just define_method. no self. needed either.
<apeiros_> ah, I guess you tried self.define_method first and failed… you can't call private methods with an explicit receiver. not even if that is `self`.
<linduxed> is there a ruby operator that does floor division
<linduxed> the equivalent of python's //
<apeiros_> linduxed: div
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: K, now that would defining new class methods, but I of course need them to be instance methods (so each instance could set and get different values, right?)
<robert_> apeiros_: I was hoping someone could give me pointers on how to use it. ;/
<linduxed> apeiros_: ok thx
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<apeiros_> robert_: if you want help, you should do your best to describe your actual problem. neither "somebody used X" nor "I'm having troubles" are of any use to potential helpers.
<robert_> it's complaining about the way I'm forming my DSN
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: no, define_method defines instance methods
<robert_> I have no idea why, though, because by all accounts, it should be accept a dsn, not just the driver name.
<apeiros_> class Foo; define_method(:bar) do "bar!" end; end; Foo.new.bar # => "bar!"
<linduxed> apeiros_: hmm, i can't figure out how to use it, where could i find a description of its usage?
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: So that could be working?!?! Let me write an easier test… : )
<apeiros_> linduxed: a.div(b)
<linduxed> oh ok
<linduxed> will try that
<billy_ran_away> assert Hickwell.instance.respond_to? :foo
<linduxed> btw, is ruby like python in the sense that the standards dictate that methods should have underscore separation while classes are camelcase?
<apeiros_> linduxed: no
<apeiros_> ruby doesn't care much how you name your methods
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<linduxed> well
<linduxed> i didn't mean it in the MUST way
<apeiros_> also classes are objects and only have a name if you assign them to a constant
<apeiros_> constants however *must* start with A-Z
<linduxed> i meant that i read in a PEP that you should do it a certain way because all others do it that way
<apeiros_> methods that start with A-Z (only uppercase) *must* be unambiguously methods (i.e., have a receiver, parens and/or get arguments passed)
<apeiros_> also, it is *convention* that methods are snake_cased
<linduxed> ok
<apeiros_> it is also convention that you use 2 space indents
<apeiros_> and CamelCase constants
<linduxed> ok, good to know
<apeiros_> there's plenty of conventions, those are probably the most important ones. google for ruby code styleguide if you look for more.
<linduxed> ok, i will if i'm uncertain
<linduxed> one thing though...
<linduxed> so people will get mad if i use 8space tabs?
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: sorry for the delay - in the methods you define - where should maskable_attributes come from? (line 23 in your code)
<linduxed> :-D
<apeiros_> linduxed: probably
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<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: No problem at all, what method are you referring to?
<llaskin> if i call fileX with args (a,b,c) and fileX loads fileY, does fileY have access to args (a,b,c)?
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<linduxed> just kidding, but i do prefer 4space tabs... i guess i'll just have to adjust
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: MaskableAttributes the class?
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<apeiros_> linduxed: they might burn your code and run you out of town - after having tared and feathered you
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<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: a class method?
<Greed> What do you want from me lahwran
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<apeiros_> llaskin: what do you mean by "call fileX"?
<llaskin> ruby fileX.rb a b c
<llaskin> then fileX loads fileY
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<apeiros_> ah, execute…
<llaskin> yes sorry
<apeiros_> yes, sure. ARGV is a constant
<apeiros_> constants are global.
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<llaskin> oh ok excellent
<llaskin> thanks!
<apeiros_> unless fileX contains code to delete it, of course
<apeiros_> llaskin: *but* it's bad style to access ARGV anywhere but in the executable
<apeiros_> (directly, that is)
<llaskin> so what is the best way to transfer the args then?
<llaskin> if i am loading fileY, how would I pass the args without storing them in a constant or global?
<apeiros_> llaskin: I assume your fileY contains classes and methods? pass it as args to whatever method makes use of it.
<llaskin> apeiros_: it does, but I am literally calling the command "load fileY" from fileX
<apeiros_> llaskin: so?
<llaskin> fileY actually has a set of function calls to a bunch of other files, which may or may not rely on the values in ARGV
<llaskin> can i pass arguments to the load method?
<apeiros_> llaskin: I somewhat get the feeling you should read a thing or two about OO…
<shevy> or just ask apeiros_
<shevy> :D
<llaskin> apeiros_: ummmm i know plenty about object oriented design
<apeiros_> shevy: I'm not a personal teacher, though…
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<llaskin> however i'm trying to work within constraints of an existing system(that might not be ideal)
<shevy> in my world OOP is about ponies and unicorns and flowers
<apeiros_> llaskin: then apply your knowledge. load only loads code (also, why load and not require?)
<apeiros_> invoking code is a different thing
<apeiros_> having toplevel code in your loaded files that are not definitions is bad style too… but if you know about OO, you likely know that too…
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<llaskin> apeiros_: the way this piece of code works, is that based on one of the ARGVs passed to fileX, a specific fileY is loaded/required(which are mostly synonymous btw from what I can see). However, i have come to a situation where I want to pass some of the ARGV's to fileY
<llaskin> you also must know that we don't always all work in the most ideal systems right?
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: oh, the cattr_accessor? I see…
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<apeiros_> llaskin: if you say "pass ARGS to file X", that either implies you have non-definitions toplevel code, which is bad, or it means you're conflating stuff…
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<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: hm… is it possible that you haven't pushed all files? maskable_attribute/maskable_attribute.rb seems missing…
<billy_ran_away> i added it in the next commit
<billy_ran_away> I should have re-ordered those commits in a rebase...
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Nope you're right
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<apeiros_> oh, hehe, funny… billy_ran_away, you should check the names of your variables ;-)
<apeiros_> define_method name <-- where does name come from?
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<apeiros_> subsequently, masked_attributes vs. maskable_attributes
<linduxed> if i've got a file i've imported with "import calc" i can use one of its arguments with "calc.foobar". how do i do that i ruby, asusuming it's loaded?
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<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Okay, I pushed it out.
<shevy> linduxed ruby does not really have an import-like system. when you require the file, it is available for you. most of the time, it will reside in a module namespace, like module Foo (sometimes class Foo)
<apeiros_> linduxed: with ruby, you do `require "path/to/file"` where path/to/file is relative to any path in $LOAD_PATH (or a file of any installed gem)
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: haha, which line was that?
<apeiros_> linduxed: after that, it's (almost) as if you had written the code in the same file
<apeiros_> that is, you can use its classes and its methods
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<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: That was a copy and paste but forgot to change...
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: That should be masked_attribute
<shevy> not sure what calc.foobar is doing linduxed but I guess in ruby, it could be a class called Calc, and foobar could be a class method perhaps. Calc.foobar or if calc is a variable then .foobar would be a method on that object
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: http://pastie.org/3119627 the code I used
<apeiros_> linduxed: oh, it might be that toplevel methods are file-local. add methods to Kernel if you want "global functions"
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: awesome thanks for your help!
<tziOm> how do I debug the: uninitialized constant Syck::Syck
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: relevant changes are on line 29 & 32 (`masked_attribute` instead of `name`), and line 30 & 33 (`masked_attributes` instead of `maskable_attributes`)
<machuga> Hey I'm having some headaches installing the rqr gem from both system ruby and and rvm rubies. It was hanging on a non existent folder which I've since symlinked accordingly, but am now getting hung up on "ld: library not found for -lsupc++". It appears that supc++ is not included in the OS X 10.7 SDK (I'm currently on Mac OS X 10.7) so I'm assuming this is part of the headache. Has anyone had any luck compiling it or any other
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Yea, I went ahead and used your do end proc style too : )
<apeiros_> oh, and remove the `p self` on line 22
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<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: What's the deal with lines 2-4?
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Oh duh
<machuga> To be honest I'm not entirely why they tried to drop back down to just GCC there instead of continuing with g++, but I'm sure it was a valid reason
<billy_ran_away> apeiros_: Because I forgot to check in maskable_attribute.rb
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: btw., you may *not* want to use cattr's, they use class variables, which are somewhat nasty (and often misunderstood by ruby programmers)
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: line 2-4 was a work-around for your missing file :-p
<apeiros_> you can just drop that
<apeiros_> machuga: rqr some qr-code reader? if so, then I (likely) didn't have any better luck. I tried a couple and didn't get any to work on 10.7 :-S (I didn't invest more than a couple of minutes into each, though)
<linusoleander> Can I combine lazy evaluation and a hash in ruby?
<linusoleander> hash = {value: lambda {sleep(10)} }
<linusoleander> hash[:value] # <= slow
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<apeiros_> linusoleander: something's off with your question and your example…
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<apeiros_> lazy evaluation won't help with sleep(10) taking 10 seconds…
<linusoleander> apeiros_: The value should't be calculated until it's being called
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<apeiros_> linusoleander: in your example. hash[:value].call will just do that…
<apeiros_> i.e., hash[:value] will not wait for 10s
<linusoleander> Yes, but I don't' want to call #call on the lambda
<apeiros_> then no, Hash can't do that for you.
<apeiros_> you can easily wrap a hash and let it do that for you, though.
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<apeiros_> hash = {value: lambda {sleep(10)} }; def hash.[](key); super.call; end; hash[:value]
<apeiros_> (or even write a proper class for it)
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<mcriddles> hey guys :)
<apeiros_> billy_ran_away: btw., http://pastie.org/3119627
<srid> is it possible to call this script without having to specify absolute path?
<srid> ~/.rbenv/versions/1.9.3-p0/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1/gems/ruby-prof-0.10.8/bin/ruby-prof
<srid> sort of like python's `python -m ruby-prof`
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<srid> (i installed by ruby-prof using gem; and ran 'rbenv shims' which didn't create the symlink, so I had to use absolute path)
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<srid> this absolute path is stored in the Makefile, so it won't work for other developers
<davidcelis> srid: Is the gem supposed to provide an executable in your GEMHOME's bin/ ?
<davidcelis> because that doesn't look like it
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<davidcelis> srid: What about `rbenv rehash` ?
<srid> davidcelis: that did it, thanks!
<davidcelis> no prob. i don't think `rbenv shims` does the same thing
* srid adds 'rbenv rehash' to Makefile
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<davidcelis> but i can't figure out what it DOES do
<davidcelis> because it's undocumented :\
<davidcelis> rehash is what you want to create the shims after installing new gems, though :)
<linusoleander> apeiros_: Thanks
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* srid is trying to find why his eventmachine program is taking 100% cpu usage. hard to find where the bottleneck is, using ruby-prof
<machuga> apeiros_: Ya, qr writer. Just having some horrid luck with 10.7 compilation
<srid> here's the ruby-prof output in HTML for anyone curious: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/87045/tmp/rubyprof.html
<apeiros_> machuga: I think for writing there's pure ruby solutions
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<machuga> apeiros_: Ya I think there are a few extra options, I'll just likely need the extra speed since it'll be in a high traffic environment
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<machuga> still need the client to provide me realistic estimations to run some benchmarks, but it'll be up there a bit.
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<chiel> Hi guys, for a project I am working on, I am printing some html inside a <script> tag. I'd like it to be escaped so that people can't, for example, put a </script> tag. how would I achieve this?
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<canton7> HTML *inside* a script tag? Like, inside quotes?
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<chiel> canton7: ehm, sorry, between the opening and closing script tags. :)
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<chiel> basically I need something equivalent to htmlspecialchars found in php.
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<apeiros_> CGI.escapeHTML iirc
<chiel> apeiros_: cool, thanks. :)
<apeiros_> yupp
<apeiros_> CGI.escapeHTML('<script>') # => "&lt;script&gt;"
<chiel> sweet, thanks :)
<apeiros_> it'll only escape "<>& iirc
<chiel> that's fine :)
<chiel> thanks!
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<startling> In python, I can install packages with `pip install -e .`, which will install a symlink to the source code so I can change things without constantly having to reinstall them. Does gem have anything like that?
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<apeiros_> gem which GEMNAME, then edit away…
<apeiros_> of course you can use ln -s + xargs to get your symlink too…
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<startling> thanks.
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<linduxed> ok so this is my old python project that i want to port to ruby: https://github.com/linduxed/eve-mins-python in planning the layout of this project i've so far decided that i'll split it all up into three files
<linduxed> calc.rb, converter.rb and items.rb
<linduxed> the thing i'm unsure of is whether i should have a separate file alltogether for the data importing from the text files
<linduxed> like... parser.rb
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<canton7> linduxed, after a quick glance through the python code, my main comment is that it's all written rather procedurally -- your objects contains data only, and there are global (well, module) methods which operate on that data. You might gain a lot by moving to a proper OO design -- your objects contains both data and methods, with the methods operating on the data
<linduxed> canton7: that sounds quite true, now that you mention it
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<linduxed> canton7: would you suggest anything?
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<canton7> linduxed, I can't suggest anything concrete without first fully understanding what you've got at the moment. One example would be the calc.ores_to_minerals methods, though... That could become Ore.to_mineral maybe?
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<linduxed> canton7: if by "what you've got" you mean ruby code... i've got nothing
<canton7> sorry, what python code you've got
<linduxed> canton7: what you see in that repo is all there is
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<canton7> yeah, but I don't have time to read and understand it all, so I don't have the full structure and operation of the program in my head
<linduxed> aaaah
<canton7> sorry, that was unclear
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<linduxed> ok then
<linduxed> hmmm
<linduxed> i'm trying to picture that "proper OO design"
<linduxed> i'm not sure what i'm aiming for
<davidcelis> do you know ruby?
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<linduxed> davidcelis: to be honest... no
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<linduxed> davidcelis: i'm not even sure if i'd answer yes if you said python
<davidcelis> you might want to read a ruby book. there are some good ones that will also teach you OO design practices
<davidcelis> Well-Grounded Rubyist is one I see recommended often
<linduxed> "i've had shit compile"
<linduxed> that's a good way to put it
<davidcelis> ruby and python don't compile
<davidcelis> they are interpreted
<linduxed> sorry
<davidcelis> lol
<linduxed> i know
<linduxed> but you know what i meant
<davidcelis> more or less
<apeiros_> davidcelis: only partially true :-p
<apeiros_> (bytecode… yadda yadda…)
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<canton7> linduxed, I think the thing that clicked for me, was realising that, in OOP, you don't have functions that operate on data (as you do in, say, C). You have classes that operate on themselves
<canton7> Obviously you can't do that 100% of the time, but it's the general idea
<canton7> so, before OOP, you'd say f = fopen('file'); fread(f); fclose(f); Under OOP, you'd say f = File.open('file'); f.read(); f.close()
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<davidcelis> I thought Python was supposed to be primarly OO, but most Python code I see seems to be imperitave
<apeiros_> pythons OO is rather tacked-on
<startling> ha, what?
<startling> python is pretty thoroughly OO.
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<apeiros_> startling: …yeah, which is why you have to pass self around…
<davidcelis> lolz
<shevy> startling python is too dumb to know where is self
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<shevy> it's like you have baby kittens and you need to tell them where the mother is
<workmad3> python isn't really OO
<workmad3> it just gives you the ability to group function pointers together with some data
<davidcelis> python seems about as OO as C
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<shevy> I think startling does not want to comment any further :(
<workmad3> oh, and it manages rewriting something.function_call() into function_call(something) for the self param :)
<davidcelis> lol shevy
<shevy> from:
<shevy> if MacOS.prefer_64_bit? and not ARGV.include? "--32-bit"
<shevy> to:
<shevy> if MacOS.prefer_64_bit? and not ARGV.build_32_bit?
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<shevy> never seen that with ARGV before :D
<startling> shevy: whatever dude, not going to get in a pissing contest in an irc channel.
<davidcelis> shevy: --build-32-bit
<davidcelis> my guess is the ARG changed to that?
<shevy> startling pissing contest? these were just statements.
<davidcelis> instead of --32-bit
<shevy> dunno davidcelis ... I am trying to find out which one is better
<shevy> the second one is a bit shorter, so that's a plus in my book right now
<davidcelis> the latter, for sure
<davidcelis> definitely more Ruby like
<apeiros_> it'd be a startling pissing contest…
<davidcelis> ha
<shevy> teaches you to not pick certain nicks eh
<shevy> to chevy
<shevy> :/
<apeiros_> and yeah, it'd be pissing against the wind, given that you're not just in an irc channel, but in a ruby channel…
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<wmoxam> eah, lets just argue about with text editor is TEH BEST EVAR instead
<workmad3> wmoxam: that's no argument
<workmad3> wmoxam: it's self-evidently vim :P
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<wmoxam> workmad3: NO, macvim!
* wmoxam hates your favorite editor
* wmoxam hates your favorite Linux distro too
<workmad3> wmoxam: my favourite linux distro is ubuntu... so quite easily hatable :)
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<davidcelis> macvim++
<deryl> reading Well Grounded Rubyists. In it, David is stating that you call Obj.send() with the method name you want to send to that object. However, I;m discovering that appears to be a typo or learning opportunity missed insofar as that if I do Array.send(methods) I get a TypeError. but if i turn methods into a symbol :methods it works as expected. ri Object.send shows the first is a symbol. I take it that symbol should be the method you wish to pass.
<davidcelis> precompiled vim binary with extras? yes please
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<davidcelis> deryl: yes, you pass the method name as a symbol
<workmad3> deryl: method name as symbol or string
<davidcelis> but mostly symbols
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<wmoxam> workmad3: DERPBUNTU
<deryl> so you would build any methods using .send you should send(:"#{method_param}")
<davidcelis> deryl: if you're gonna pass method_param, which is probably a string, you can just do Obj.send(method_param)
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<apeiros_> drop the :"" part deryl
<apeiros_> assuming method_param is a string, that'll work just fine.
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<workmad3> deryl: it's just a normal method call, so you can pass variables that contain the method name :)
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<deryl> ahh cool. thanks for the clarification. var = "methods" ; Array.send(var) got it :)
<workmad3> deryl: yeah, that's the one :)
<greenfreq> is there a way to use a variable to define an object attribute? for example an object pkt has an src and a dst attribute pkt.dst or pkt.src what i want to be able to do is read in whether the user wants src or dst and have a single section of code that does pkt.variable rather than an if statement to determine dst or src
<deryl> I was manually passing Array.send(methods) and getting a type error. Didn't dawn on me Array.send("methods")
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<shevy> wait what
<shevy> what does that mean greenfreq
<shevy> "use a variable to define an object attribute"
<davidcelis> greenfreq: lol... attr_accessor :variable
<shevy> he didn't use the word method!
<davidcelis> too bad
<shevy> lol
<shevy> yeah greenfreq stop drinking beer man
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<shevy> .dst and .src sounds as if you want accessor methods like davidcelis wrote, so you can use attr_accessor :src, :dst and inside your class ensure that it has proper values when you want to query it
<celestius> quick q - what's that idiom to check if the current source file was invoked from the command line as an executable?
<shevy> not sure about the executable part
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<shevy> but the rest of the question can be answered with "if __FILE__ == $PROGRAM_NAME"
<davidcelis> was_this_file_invoked_from_the_command_line_as_an_executable? # => true/false
<semperos> using net/http, trying to use SSL
<semperos> docs show a use_ssl= instance method on Net::HTTP, but I'm not able to use it
<semperos> http = Net::HTTP.new(host, port), then later http.use_ssl = true
<davidcelis> is it private?
<celestius> thanks shevy
<workmad3> davidcelis: that method should exist :)
<davidcelis> i know right?
<davidcelis> let's patch ruby
<semperos> tried code here and isn't working either: http://www.rubyinside.com/nethttp-cheat-sheet-2940.html
<stephenjudkins> semperos: ah, so HTTPS support is broken, and completely insecure, by default.
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<semperos> currently in a contained env, proof-of-concept coding, in a situation where cert's are known to be faulty
<semperos> (out of my control)
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<semperos> but thanks for the pointer
<shevy> a dangerous environment
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<greenfreq> shevy, davidcelis: I am using Pcap::Capture and src and dst are the attributes created when a pcap file is parsed. so that... cap.loop do |pkt| creates a pkt object for each packet in the file
<davidcelis> yeah man i don't follow what you're trying to do at all
<davidcelis> i have no idea what the hell your pcaps, caps, or pkts are
<greenfreq> shevy, davidcelis: this lets me do pkt.src to see the source ip and dst for destination.
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> can't you just abstract or generalize the question
<greenfreq> ok cap is an object created of the capture file, pkt is a object of a packet within cap
<greenfreq> shevy
<davidcelis> if you need the Packet object to have attributes, then you need to do what shevy and I said earlier
<greenfreq> ill try..
<davidcelis> use attr_accessor
<davidcelis> in your Packet class
<shevy> abstract to the point where your objects do not have any names anymore :)
<davidcelis> but please don't use foo or bar either..
<shevy> pcaps caps pkts trsc okg is confusing me
<davidcelis> (those are fucking terrible variable names, by the way)
<shevy> how about
<davidcelis> you dont need to abbreviate "packet" to "pkt"
<shevy> foo1 foo2 foo3
<shevy> :)
<davidcelis> just call the variable "packet"
<davidcelis> ruby is about readability
<greenfreq> animal object with attributes of head tail and feet. user needs to pick one of them. currently i have to duplicate the same code over and over with if statements for which the user asks for. animal.feet animal.tail animal.head what i want to do is animal.variable where variable is the users choice
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<workmad3> shevy: all your variables should be in one array called 'v' and accessed my index
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<shevy> hmm
<davidcelis> animal.send(variable)
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<shevy> and the users choice can be limited? or can it be anything
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<shevy> but anyway, that sounds just like any other method
<shevy> so make a "def variable" method and inside, determine how to continue
<greenfreq> shevy the users choice is limited to what is available within the Pcap::Capture
<shevy> odd name of method though
<workmad3> greenfreq: you want dynamic dispatch
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<workmad3> greenfreq: which is davidcelis's solution ;)
<davidcelis> greenfreq: do pkt.send(variable)
<davidcelis> if variable is a string or symbol, and pkt responds to that method, it will return what you want
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<greenfreq> davidcelis: ok.. let me try that out.. thanks for the patience
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<davidcelis> no problem BRO
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<linduxed> davidcelis: well don't judge python by my code :-P
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<linduxed> oh shit... responding to hour old comment :-/
<davidcelis> but your python looks like most python i've seen
<davidcelis> lol
<linduxed> good thing to go to the bottom of the page
<linduxed> davidcelis: hahaa
<canton7> my two cents: I just spent half a year on a large python project. I like it, but wouldn't choose it over ruby
<linduxed> davidcelis: well... maybe python is dominated by newbies?
<linduxed> haha
<workmad3> linduxed: heh :) and python needs to be judged by someone's code, so why not yours? :)
<linduxed> workmad3: because i'm shit at coding and willing to admit it?
<linduxed> :-)
<workmad3> canton7: I'd choose perl over python personally :P
<davidcelis> I'd choose Scheme over Python
<linduxed> i'm the kind of guy who realizes that the sole thing i can amount to is to make stuff run
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<linduxed> i know the different paradigms... but I can't honestly say i've mastered any one of them
<workmad3> linduxed: getting stuff to run is an important skill
<deryl> its all junk until it runs :)
<deryl> then its useful!
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<linduxed> workmad3: well... there's a difference between making a meal and achievieving edible guck
<workmad3> deryl: I dunno... some of it is still junk even when it's running
<linduxed> *achieving
<deryl> workmad3: i didn't attach a degree of usefulness :)
<deryl> i reserved that for the general public :)
<workmad3> linduxed: I've known plenty of coders that given all the ingredients could only make a mess
<linduxed> workmad3: well as long as they can admit that then that's fine
<workmad3> linduxed: so I live by the maxim that first you make it work, then you make it good... and making it work is the more important :)
<linduxed> i'm one of those
<workmad3> linduxed: like hell they could admit it :P
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<linduxed> workmad3: admitting one's shit is the first step they say
<linduxed> i just can't take the next step
<workmad3> linduxed: if they could admit it, they'd never touch an IDE again :)
<davidcelis> There was a CS minor that was in a bunch of classes with me while I was still in college... The program was small (and the school was small) so she was in practically all of my CS courses
<davidcelis> she just
<workmad3> linduxed: ah, paraphrasing good old socrates... 'the first step to wisdom is knowing that you know nothing'
<davidcelis> could not wrap her head around
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<davidcelis> the most basic conventions
<davidcelis> like indentation and not using poor variable names
<soycamo> workmad3 isn't that lao tzu?
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<davidcelis> looking at her code was just the worst
<workmad3> soycamo: hmm... I've always seen it attributed to socrates
<soycamo> time to get into the investigawagon!
<linduxed> socrates said "i know that i know nothing"
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<linduxed> or something to that effect
<linduxed> so yeah, that's probably socrates you're talking about
<workmad3> linduxed: if you ever want a confidence boost, read some of 'The Daily WTF' ;)
<deryl> davidcelis: mine is a messy pile of "these instructions do what I set out to. Pretty Be Damned" code
<soycamo> rather, plato quoted socrates saying that
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<linduxed> workmad3: i clean up their RSS
<linduxed> workmad3: as soon as there's a new one, i'm reading it :-)
<linduxed> except for the Error'd articles, those tend to be pretty boring
<linduxed> or well... articles is a lot to be said
<linduxed> bunch of pictures
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<workmad3> soycamo: I take it as read that when I say 'said by socrates' I mean 'quoted by plato and attributed to socrates' :P
<workmad3> linduxed: I quite like the error'd pics :)
<linduxed> CodeSOD are what I love the most
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<greenfreq> davidcelis: you da man... http://pastie.org/3120450 to give you an idea of what i was trying to do
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<canton7> greenfreq, I got bored, and tidied that last loop up a little. it's only a suggestion http://pastie.org/3120514
<canton7> ah, actually that won't work with the inject like that... gimme a sec
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<canton7> there, edited
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<toy_battery> anyone there?
<toy_battery> i was hoping someone could help me with a class design question
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<apeiros_> your chances will increase by asking an actual question
<freelanceful> How would you all tackle this? A worker has 40 credits per month. A credit is used when they join a discussion for a project. The credits automatically renew every 30 days.
<toy_battery> ok
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<toy_battery> i'm working on a simple library that builds vim colorschemes
<toy_battery> the object that represents the 'highlight' in vim takes specific arguments
<toy_battery> gui, guibg, guifg, etc..
<toy_battery> there are about 11 args or so
<toy_battery> so i want them to be accessible
<toy_battery> ex: highlight = Vim::Highlight.new 'Normal'
<toy_battery> highlight.guibg = ....
<toy_battery> should i use attr_accessor for that many attribs though?
<apeiros_> about how many are we talking?
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<apeiros_> (I'm not a vim user)
<shevy> 3
<apeiros_> shevy: I think the 'etc' meant there are more than the 3 he mentioned
<toy_battery> 11
<apeiros_> I think that's still in order
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<apeiros_> you may think of ways to nicer represent it later
<toy_battery> yeah that's what i was thinking
<apeiros_> but for now, I don't think 11 is a killer-amount
<toy_battery> i've got all the valid args in some constants
<apeiros_> freelanceful: was that supposed to be a question?
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<freelanceful> yes.. just wondering how one would try to create a feature like that
<toy_battery> and i thought about doing something like class Highlight < Struct.new(*VALID_ARGS)
<toy_battery> but that doesn't feel nice
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<apeiros_> freelanceful: it's a bit too broad of a question to answer. but sure, I can answer it in the same breadth: I'd tackle it using my superior math and ruby skills.
<toy_battery> i also thought about using class_eval to loop throught the valid arguements assigning attr_accesor that way
<toy_battery> but eh i dunno
<apeiros_> toy_battery: heh, yeah, I do that at times
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<apeiros_> toy_battery: well, attr_accessor *VALID_ARGS will work
<apeiros_> attr_accessor is a method too, after all… and it accepts multiple names as args.
<toy_battery> oh man, i can't believe i didn't think of that
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<apeiros_> also `attr_names.each do |name| attr_accessor name end` would work
<toy_battery> is that ok todo or what?
<apeiros_> sure
<apeiros_> the only bothering thing about such techniques is that it's a bit bothersome to document
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<toy_battery> well that's not too huge
<toy_battery> i just wanna make sure the code i'm writing is clean and makes sense
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<brownies> is there a simple way to get capybara's matchers to do a regex instead of a pure string?
<brownies> or, really, i just need case-insensitive matching for has_content
<greenfreq> canton7: why do you choose .each over .loop?
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<canton7> greenfreq, each is part of Enumerable, whereas loop is not, so the function of the code was more obvious to me if each is used
<apeiros_> canton7: each_with_object instead of inject…
<canton7> that was unclear... because #each is part of Enumerable, you see it around a lot -- if someone's iterating over an array, you almost always see #each used. #loop seems to be pcap-specific, and so didn't carry nearly as much meaning. I had to check the docs to be sure of what it did
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<ReinH> canton7: #each is not a part of Enumerable
<davidcelis> the fuck is #loop
<t34ew> hi
<canton7> apeiros_, never spotted that one, thanks!
<ReinH> #each is the *basis method* for Enumerable
<ReinH> i.e. all methods in Enumerable are based on #each
<canton7> ReinH, my bad. Enumerable relies on #each, though?
<apeiros_> I'd probably write a proper class for the IPs collection, something like an IPSet… could probably be really short (only << & each)
<canton7> So you'll always see #each where Enumerable is mixed in
<yekta> Is there a simpler way to write: conditions.nil? ? false : conditions
<ReinH> yekta: why would you need that?
<canton7> ReinH, cheers for the link
<t34ew> i have a problem qit qtruby: i use QGraphicsScene addPixmap. it returns a QGraphicsPixmapItem. when i want to call its setOffset method, i get a method_missing error
<davidcelis> yekta: conditions?
<apeiros_> yekta: is false and nil considered to be a different case there?
<ReinH> i.e. why do you care about coercing nil to false? Ruby doesn't.
<canton7> davidcelis, #loop is a rubypcap Capture method. It does the same as #each
<yekta> apeiros_: yes
<apeiros_> conditions || false
<t34ew> where to get qtruby help?
<yekta> apeiros_: I like that
<apeiros_> I concur with the others that I'd not try to make a difference
<apeiros_> slippery slope
<yekta> thank you
<apeiros_> yw
<davidcelis> canton7: what's the point
* tnk1 is back.
<canton7> davidcelis, some snippet of code from much earlier. I tinkered with it, and changed a #loop to #each. Then the question of why I had made the change arose...
<davidcelis> ah
<canton7> and that lead into Enumerable, etc...
<greenfreq> davidcelis: he took the code i showed you with the change you suggested and made the loop more concise and used each instead of loop and i asked why
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<wkdown> would someone starting to learn Ruby be shooting them in the foot professionally if they did not learn Rails, but a different framework?
<wkdown> themselves*
<jensn> If you know one well, you can pick another up quickly.
<wkdown> I'm still new to it, but it seems ActiveRecord is much different than, say, DataMapper
<canton7> sinatra is used a lot, from what I can gather
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<wkdown> but I may be wrong
<jensn> If you just want a checkbox on your CV, then you should pick rails. But otherwise it doesn't really matter.
<wkdown> Sinatra is exactly the one I have been looking into
<jensn> It is mostly API differences.
<jensn> The theory is mostly the same.
<wkdown> ok good to know
<canton7> the difference between sinatra and rails is, in my slightly limited experience, colossal
<wkdown> what are the colossal differences (a few)
<jensn> Rails includes a lot of stuff, Sinatra doesn't.
<canton7> rails tries to do everything for you: if you know how to use it (steep learning curve), and want to do something which it knows how to do, you can do a lot with very little work. Sinatra is more about giving you some support, but letting you tackle things your own way
<shevy> Rails is so big that it could be its own language
<canton7> I had some major fights with rails trying to make it do things it didn't want to do
<davidcelis> Isn't Sinatra pretty much only the webserver?
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<canton7> it's a DSL built on top of rack
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<canton7> so it'll run on top of <your favourite webserver>, and gives you some nice help with routing, templating, etc
<wkdown> it = Rails, u mean
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<canton7> sorry, I was referring to sinatra there
<wkdown> ok
<canton7> with rails, for example, you put your controllers, with such-and-such a structure, into such-a-such a file in some specific folder. rails will make sure the right controller's method will be called at the right time
<canton7> with sinatra, you structure your app however you like, and define your routes manually. Better for small stuff, less good for massive stuff
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<canton7> monk exists, and provides common setups and structures for sinatra
<canton7> there's also padrino, which is an MVC framework built on top of sinatra
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<wkdown> this may be a bad metaphor, but Rails is like Windows (pre-configured for most every user to easily use) and Sinatra is like a flavor of *nix (sparse but powerful, for those that know what they want to do with it)
<wkdown> looking up Monk and PAdrino now
<canton7> to add to that: when you want to change some random setting in windows, it can be an absolute nightmare, and you end up with hacky workarounds
<canton7> however, I'd say the learning curve to usign sinatra is much smaller than rails, which doesn't fit the metaphor
<wkdown> same for Rails?
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<canton7> same for rails, imo
<wkdown> things to consider, definitely
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<wkdown> forgive another n00b question, but what is DSL (if not Digital Subscriber Line)?
<wkdown> dynamic source library?
<wkdown> domain specific language
<wkdown> found it, sorry
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<emacsen> In ActiveRecord, can I have a model which has_one and also has_many of the same model?
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<davidcelis> lol what
<davidcelis> why?
<apeiros_> emacsen: sure. but #rubyonrails
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<emacsen> davidcelis, I want to maintain several versions of an object, but one "current" version
<davidcelis> so you can have object.related_object, and object.related_objects ?
<emacsen> apeiros_, I'm not using rails :)
<davidcelis> ahh.
<davidcelis> ActiveRecord is part of rails, though, so it really does belong there
<apeiros_> emacsen: still, AR is mainly an AR domain and #rubyonrails is the proper channel for AR questions.
<toy_battery> apeiros_ here's the class https://gist.github.com/1557014
<apeiros_> s/AR domain/rails domain/
<emacsen> apeiros_, ok *shrug* ok
<toy_battery> does it make sense that way
<apeiros_> toy_battery: too much code that late and me being in my own code, sry :)
<toy_battery> lol
<toy_battery> just the *VALID_ARGS part in the attr_accessor
<toy_battery> or if anyone else wants to comment
<apeiros_> that part is fine
<apeiros_> IMO
<toy_battery> i actually like that solution much more than doing Highlight < Struct.new(*VALID_ARGS)
<toy_battery> or class_eval, method_missing shit
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<apeiros_> gn8
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<evangelion> hello, i'm unable to listen to dbus signal from org.gtk.Private.GduVolumeMonitor on debian with ruby 1.8 and ruby-dbus
<evangelion> do i need additional user permissions?
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<v0n> hey
<v0n> is there any big problem with the point explain at "Scene 3: a Class act" of http://opensoul.org/blog/archives/2010/05/03/the-quest-for-the-holy-object-serialization-format/?
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<mib_mib> hi guys, i'm starting using ec2, wanted to know why people normally use chef + stock ami instead of preinstalling everything on an AMI and then just booting it straight
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<v0n> why module Foo; class Bar; end; end; Object.const_get "Foo::Bar" fails?
<v0n> while eval("Foo::Bar") works
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<heftig> v0n: Object.const_get("Foo").const_get("Bar")
<heftig> const_get does not parse ::
<v0n> heftig, hum ok... I'll need an help to split the string (if needed) then concatenate contants then...
<v0n> thanks
<dr_bob> v0n: usually str.split(/::/).inject(Object) {|c,n|c.const_get(n)}
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<v0n> dr_bob, interesting. I still get issue to understand very well this Enumerable#inject method! but pretty useful. Thanks ;)
<dr_bob> took me a while at the beginning as well. now it seems pretty simple to me. :-)
<v0n> and what about Object#const_get and Kernel#cons_get? any preference?
<shevy> hmm going to ask here...
<shevy> https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/commit/4fb16996f9f800a32c7b43c3f965b1d7f5475042#Library/Formula how is the "ARGV.build_32_bit?" part done? is ARGV modified? anyone has an idea?
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<shevy> v0n it seems I usually use Object.const_get
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<jblack> Hello, I'm not much of a ruby user myself, but I administrate systems for those that are. I'm trying to get a ruby gem called cijoe, which is up to 0.92, installed, but the most recent version that I can get gem to see is 0.8.1
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<jblack> could you gentlemen recommend a couple signpost docs that I can use to figure gem out enough to detangle this apparent verion dependancy problem?
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<v0n> jblack, `gem install cijoe` installs cijoe-0.9.2
<v0n> isn't what you want?
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<v0n> both on 1.8.7 or 1.9.2
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<shevy> wow
<shevy> cijoe pulls in shitloads of things
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<jblack> v0n: on this sytem it's installing 0.8.6
<jblack> this is a ubuntu lucid system on rightscale (which means I'm stuck on lucid)
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<jblack> gem list --remote cijoe shows 0.8.1
<jblack> pardon, 0.8.1, not 0.8.6
<v0n> jblack, that's because of your Rubygems version I guess
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<workmad3> jblack: gem --version
<jblack> gem --version reports 1.5.0. I'm not sure how to make it newer.
<v0n> jblack, can RVM fit your needs?
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<jblack> sure, if it can be automate
<v0n> jblack, that's a known and now stable ruby versions manager
<v0n> installation user or system wide
<jblack> system wide please.
<jblack> oh, that sounds nice.
<jblack> Yeah, I'm reading the home page now.
<v0n> read the 2. point ;)
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<v0n> and use the lastest stable release if you're doing system administration
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<jblack> I seem to be making progress here! Thanks so far!
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<jblack> hmmm, except when I "rvm use 1.9.2 --default", and type "ruby --version", I get a cryptic error
<jblack> [nm. I'm just retarded. =)
<jblack> Ok, there's somethind odd here, I _still_ got cijoe 0.8.1, even with rvm's ruby 1.9.2
<jblack> is there a archive list for gem, like sources.list for debian systems?
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<nilspetter> What do you guys use ruby for (BESIDES rails)? =)
<Avi`> nothing
<Avi`> =p
<pantsman> code generation
<pantsman> internal DSLs
<shevy> nilspetter I use it for everything. web stuff ... projects... right now I am writing on a collection of scripts that aid in installing things
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<nilspetter> Is it possible to use ruby for android somewhat efficiently and conveniently?
<workmad3> nilspetter: probably not
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<Amnesia_> question
<oddmunds> nilspetter: i think this is your only option http://ruboto.org/
<Amnesia_> how could I write "\xff..." to register x ?
<nilspetter> hm. what other than web/rails can I use ruby for; somewhat efficiently and conveniently?
<Amnesia_> eh location x in memory*
<shadoi> write some assembly. :)
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<oddmunds> nilspetter: general stuff and scripting
<nilspetter> oddmunds: hm. worth looking at?
<nilspetter> what does "general stuff" include more concretely? :P
<Amnesia_> shadoi: in perl it'd be: print $nops . $shellcode . $eip;
<oddmunds> nilspetter: i don'
<oddmunds> t know
<shevy> nilspetter for everything
<oddmunds> i guess it depends on how much you want to make an android app
<shevy> nilspetter, you can go into GUI stuff with ruby-gtk or ruby-qt. for any given problem where you use a programming language to solve something, you can use ruby
<nilspetter> moderately. but i can't think of much else to program other than apps and web... what else is there?
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<oddmunds> haha
<evilgeenius> I have received the characters "O \005 i }" from an SMS service when I should have receieved the characters "ó é, í ñ". Does anyone know how I can convert the what I've recieved into what I need? I guess it's something to do with character encoding.
<shevy> you take a problem
<shevy> you write a script to solve that problem
<shevy> that is it nilspetter
<Amnesia_> anyone..:)?
<shevy> apps and web just have the constrained of usually "have to work in a web browser"
<shevy> *constraint
<oddmunds> nilspetter: i make programs that plays music through my keyboard
<oddmunds> i make games
<shevy> nilspetter every time you have a manual task anywhere, you use ruby to automate it
<nilspetter> make games? in ruby? is that convenient to do with ruby? what do you use for it? rubygame?
<shevy> every game has game logic
<shevy> you write that in ruby
<shevy> I dunno what you mean with "convenient", what other language do you want to use
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<nilspetter> shevy: hehe. yea. that's nice. do you mean stuff that has to do with organizing files on your machine and stuff like that?
<shevy> is C more convenient than ruby? perl? php?
<workmad3> shevy: I dunno... some games seem to completely lack logic :P
<shevy> you can organize things however you want to
<shevy> I mean
<shevy> what does ruby have to do with how you organize files on your machine :)
<Amnesia_> shadoi: oi:)
<shevy> ah
<shevy> I guess you mean to automatically move or rename them etc..
<shevy> you can do that in pretty every programming language
<shevy> perhaps not prolog
<nilspetter> shevy, idk. you said: every manual task you automate with ruby. what kind of tasks do you mean? :)
<shevy> nilspetter, example, configure/make/make install. I do that a lot on the shell. But I use ruby scripts to automate it
<shevy> *at the shell
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<oddmunds> nilspetter: i did not use any game libs like rubygame
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<deryl> if you can think a computerized problem's process through from beginning to end, you can probably write it in ruby. (can even link into Tcl/Tk or other languages if you wanted to write a GUI in something else (for example))
<Amnesia_> does anyone over here know
<shevy> oddmunds made any finished games? :)
<Amnesia_> how I could write some value to a specified memory location?
<oddmunds> sort of
<shevy> not in plain ruby
<nilspetter> shevy: you mentioned using ruby for games, game logic in particular. does that mean you have some engine underneath (written in C or something) that specifically supports ruby? or ... how do you go about embedding ruby to it? (sorry for being ignorant btw :P )
<shevy> you can perhaps use FFI or ... dl or what not Amnesia_
<Amnesia_> FFI,dl :)?
<oddmunds> it's terminal game, which probably disappoints most of you
<shevy> Amnesia_ why do you make a ',' there :(
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<banisterfiend> Amnesia_: use ruby_inline
<Amnesia_> cause I thought it were 2 different things?
<shevy> nilspetter dunno, havent had the need to embed ruby yet. there was a C++ game that used ruby
<banisterfiend> Amnesia_: RubyInline
<shevy> Amnesia_ yeah
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<deryl> oddmunds: when i was a kid i wrote a role playing game that was totally console called Dungeons Of The Gods.
<deryl> doesn't disappoint me at least
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<workmad3> nilspetter: you can easily write a game using just ruby, or you could probably embed an interpreter in another language and use ruby for scripting
<shevy> deryl where is the code!
<deryl> shevy: lost to the antiquities of time
<shevy> :(
<Amnesia_> banisterfiend: hm there's no way using only stdlib just like perl?
<banisterfiend> Amnesia_: to dereference a pointer? perl allows you to dereference a pointer in stdlib?
<banisterfiend> that's stupid
<banisterfiend> really stupid
<banisterfiend> that means regular perl apps could segfault
<oddmunds> i'm actually in the process of making a roguelike, and i took what i have in mye engine so far (not much) and made a tiny game out of it. i spent only six hours on it, which might not sound very impressive, but i'm pleased with it.
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<oddmunds> you can try it by ssh-ing to topolov.weknowwhatboyslike.com (username and password: santa)
<Amnesia_> ah nvm..
<Amnesia_> I'm thinking wrong
<oddmunds> i made it as an 1drl (1-day roguelike), so even though i ought to iron out some major, but easily fixable bugs, i haven't. :P
<nilspetter> shevy, what I'm trying to figure is where I can use my ruby. i want to program something. but it seems ruby isn't used much. like: android use Java. game development use C/C#/C++. are there any "big" companies that use ruby? (besides rails'ing) :P
<Amnesia_> sorry for wasting your time:/
<shevy> oddmunds you on github?
<any-key> nilspetter: plenty do, I don't have a list in front of me
<shevy> nilspetter the question is odd. what about python?
<shevy> because if you can use python, you can use ruby
<oddmunds> shevy: here's the game https://github.com/jraregris/cave-santa
<shevy> but java C C# will always be faster
<any-key> nope
<any-key> that's not true
<shevy> Amnesia_ you have weird ideas ... :P
<oddmunds> (almost, i've made some minor adjustments to the live version not present in the repo)
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<Amnesia_> shevy: hm well I keep mixing stuff up
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<nilspetter> same problem there i guess.. except that it's used somewhat more frequent than ruby; thus being more "useful"...?
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<any-key> nilspetter: you can use ruby for doing any number of things...I built a VPS hosting service with it once
<shevy> lol "Cave Christmas"
<any-key> nilspetter: popularity is not a complete indication of usefulness
<shevy> oddmunds, it's a lot of work to really make a "finished" game without bugs :(
<oddmunds> yes, aim low like me!
<shevy> haha
<oddmunds> unless you're an experienced game maker you can't really aim too low.
<shevy> first game I tried, I kept on adding features and added more and more over time. until one day I got tired of it
<deryl> lol
<oddmunds> this game was perfect in scope for me at this point.
<any-key> nilspetter: you can do practically anything in ruby, it's extraordinarily useful
<shevy> and then it started to bit-rot ...
<nilspetter> any-key: in my sense of the word: it is. because if something use ruby, e.g. i Photoshop did, then ruby could be used for that...
<any-key> you're putting too much emphasis on who uses it over what it can do
<shevy> one language to rule them all
<workmad3> nilspetter: so what you're really asking is 'what applications have ruby embedded' or is it 'what has been created with ruby'?
<shevy> though at this point it may be better for nilspetter to just pick *ANY*
<deryl> so i take it his case is that ruby isn't popular enough outside of rails to be worthwhile to learn because taht popularity (or supposed lack thereof) is the determining factor of its usefulness. did i understand him correctly?
<any-key> it's a scripting language, it's not well-suited for writing desktop applications (neither are any others)
<nilspetter> any-key: I really do love it, i just need to find something purposeful to do with it except outputting random stuff in a console window
<any-key> I built a VPS hosting service for a project with virtualbox and ruby
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<any-key> split across 10 servers
<workmad3> nilspetter: web-apps, sysadmin, config management, general scripting, games...
<any-key> it was fun
<shevy> what is bad without outputting stuff into a console
<oddmunds> nilspetter: maybe programming is not for you
<workmad3> shevy: nothing, as long as the stuff is important
<shevy> I use ruby to test exam questions for me. when I correctly answered, the result is saved, then I move to new things, repeat and learn
<deryl> there are gems out there that cover all sorts of areas from network traffic monitoring, to backups, to email mangement, to system administration, to web app;lications, to web services.
<any-key> nilspetter: what's something you'd like to work on?
<nilspetter> oddsmunds: doubtful. i've been doing it since i was 12 (I'm 22 now)
<deryl> find a problem in your existing chain of work and apply ruby to solve it
<any-key> what interests you?
<oddmunds> nilspetter: and still you can't see the potential in ruby?
<any-key> we can help you solve it with ruby
<shevy> perhaps nilspetter lacks imagination
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<any-key> just go fuck around with ruby, it's fun
<workmad3> shevy: does it occasionally throw you back a question you have already answered to test your knowledge retention? :)
<any-key> what do you have to lose?
<shevy> nilspetter, here is what helped me. I have some interesting things, projects, which I continue to try to grow over time (and make better)
<workmad3> nilspetter: 12? bit of a late starter :P
<shevy> workmad3, well... sometimes I reset it a little, so that it asks things which I already know again.
<shevy> but my great goal is to write a program that writes ruby for me anyway
<workmad3> shevy: you manually reset it? bah, automate it! :)
<any-key> it's kind of silly to walk in here and expect us to convince him to use ruby when he has no idea what he wants to accomplish
<oddmunds> nilspetter: there is one project i'd love for someone to make. i want a terminal email client that has total two-way sync with gmail.
<nilspetter> any-key: fucking around. yea. i know it's fun. i've been doing it for a while. the problem is to find something that's actually Constructive to do with it. like, something someone would hire someone to do
<nilspetter> :P
<oddmunds> for all i care it could be gmail-only. a gmail-client.
<any-key> nilspetter: what are you interested in?
<shevy> "Constructive"
<any-key> just throw out a few topics
<any-key> we can come up with project ideas
<robyurkowski> nilspetter: the problem is imagination, clearly, rather than actual functionality
<shevy> I really dont get it. if ruby scripts help you solve a task, then that is constructive in my book
<robyurkowski> you don't try to think of a problem
<robyurkowski> you find a problem, and you try to find a solution
<Avi`> yeah
<Avi`> you HAVE problems
<any-key> we all do
<shevy> oh
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<shevy> I get it
<nilspetter> haha
<shevy> nilspetter lives a life without problems
<oddmunds> nilspetter: do the other languages you know present instant projects?
<Avi`> must be nice ;)
<robyurkowski> my first 'serious' problem was duplication of my mp3s by itunes
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> oh
<robyurkowski> find something that is minorly annoying and fix it
<Avi`> whenever i learna new language or toolkit, i start to see my problems as 'i could solve it THIS way with that new language/toolkit'
<Avi`> instead of like 'what are some problems i could solve, gosh..'
<any-key> writing web apps is fun
<robyurkowski> ruby is nothing more a hammer in a toolbox, sitting beside python, the drain snake
<any-key> even without rails
<workmad3> robyurkowski: yeah, that really annoyed me too... I doubt my 'solution' was the same as yours though ;)
<shevy> I use ruby to handle ffmpeg-conversions. I cant remember the commandline options, so I wrote up something that translates how my brain thinks, into ffmpeg.
<Okasu> mine was using google translate from CLI
<shevy> ruby is my glue for everything
<robyurkowski> haha
<nilspetter> i guess not... however, I know languages like java are asked for in an infinite number of jobs. obviously it's very useful. except for web/rails, where else is ruby asked for in a job type of context?
<any-key> I glued my fingers together with ruby :(
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<Avi`> i forgot i had a ruby script that i used to manage interactions with a bunch of command line stuff
<Avi`> to talk to attached devices for me
<robyurkowski> nilspetter: it's asked for in places where you don't have 10 levels of management.
<any-key> nilspetter: I worked for a company that made networking appliances which used ruby extensively
<Avi`> nilspetter: i use ruby in my job...
<any-key> especially for testing
<Avi`> daily
<any-key> not just rails development
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<robyurkowski> me too
<oddmunds> nilspetter: for work in ruby there's mostly rais jobs. but ruby will fix the thousands of small problems you'll face in any job.
<robyurkowski> as a sysadmin, too, i use ruby like effing glue
<any-key> it's a scripting language, that's what they do
<shevy> see, ruby is really just the better perl
<Avi`> and im not a web coder or whatever
<shevy> and when a bank needs an app in java, then obviously it did not want to have it in perl. or ruby. or python
<any-key> nilspetter: what's a topic in computer science that interests you?
<nilspetter> hmm.. all good answers btw. thanks for answering :)
<shevy> HE IS THE MAN WITHOUT INTERESTS
<Okasu> robyurkowski: you should use bash if you realy sysadmin
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<robyurkowski> Okasu: I do use bash quite frequently too
<shevy> I think in german literature... there was the "Mann ohne Eigenschaften"... man without ... attributes? personality traits? something like that...
<shevy> wheee
<shevy> robyurkowski do you write shell scripts?
<any-key> eigen shaft?
<robyurkowski> but in programs where I have to have other programmers maintain my code, I use ruby
<robyurkowski> shevy: not well.
<robyurkowski> but I do :)
<shevy> any-key, haha... almost. eigen means "self" ... which is why I hate Eigenclass ...
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<any-key> my shaft?
<any-key> >.>
<nilspetter> any-key: i'm on my last year on my comp.sci. bachelor degree atm. Main interests: Human-Computer Interaction; Aritificial Intellignce; Brain-Computer Interface; Algorithms/Datastructure; Design (as in interaction design And eye-candy stuff like colors etc)
<shevy> lol
<shevy> any-key, not sure about "Schaften"... hmm cant tell you the origin of that word standalone ...
<Greed> lahwran, let's fight
<any-key> nilspetter: I used ruby in my AI class frequently, solved some search problems with it, made good use of the functional programming aspects
<any-key> nilspetter: there's some good ruby color libraries and whatnot
<shevy> nilspetter code HAL (from odyssee) in Ruby
<any-key> I also did a lot of work with collecting and processing large amounts of data
<shevy> of course he must be intelligent
<any-key> massive amounts
<oddmunds> nilspetter: i'm not sure how technical the HCI-thing is, but Ruby lends itself nicely to making DSLs
<any-key> there's always Shoes for GUI work :P
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> does Shoes work nicely?
<any-key> dunno
<any-key> it's not super powerful
<shevy> lol
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> I always felt as if _why was just playing and fooling around
<shevy> :(
<nilspetter> interaction Design is fun; gui-programming however, usually isn't though (in my experience)...
<any-key> nope
<any-key> nilspetter: there's some fun work to be done as far as web programming goes with ruby
<any-key> I'm not even talking about rails
<any-key> CGI scripts and smaller frameworks like sinatra
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<nilspetter> hmm
<any-key> they're jolly good fun
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<shevy> yeah
<any-key> lots and lots of web resources with ruby, the web is its bread and butter
<shevy> and every ruby cgi script can be a standalone ruby class
<shevy> so you can use it on the console nilspetter!
<any-key> check out the twitter streaming API, there's a great gem for it that lets you get some great data
<shevy> I think the problem is that you do not connect things together nilspetter
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<any-key> I think we've ragged on him plenty guys :P
<shevy> we'll see
<any-key> nilspetter: we can assign you some homework
<shevy> naaaaah
<any-key> I will
<nilspetter> sure...?
<shevy> remember
<shevy> he has no problems to solve
<shevy> and now you make him problems :(
<any-key> nilspetter: use DFS to solve the triangle solitaire puzzle
<any-key> I did it for my AI class, it's simple and kinda neat
<nilspetter> ah. sure
<deryl> ahh yeah what is that mendiant university puzzle site?
<any-key> ooooh go solve some project euler problems with ruby
<nilspetter> oh. btw. before you judge me (for not fucking around enough), check out my poker hand scripting:
<deryl> puzzlenode.ccom
<deryl> s/cc/c/
<deryl> try that out
<shevy> oh
<shevy> or
<shevy> most problems are too trivial for him
<shevy> :)
<deryl> shevy: heh
<any-key> nilspetter: you're well on your way
<oddmunds> nilspetter: not sure if you live in oslo, but if you do: http://irb.no/
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<any-key> I'm about to head home but I'm sure somebody can help you out with the stylistic issues
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<shevy> I spot an eval there
<nilspetter> oddmunds: i do
<deryl> nilspetter: http://puzzlenode.com/puzzles/12 - there you go. have fun
<any-key> looks like shevy volunteered
<Gekz> why doesn't ruby run in the browser
<shevy> I have only a few rules but one rule says to never touch code of other people using *eval*
<any-key> Gekz: because you're too lazy to build a ruby interpreter in JS!!!
<any-key> get on it
<shevy> Gekz because javascript is there
<AndChat|> Shevy irb uses eval;)
<shevy> damn irb
<shevy> undocumented stupid shit!
<AndChat|> Hehe
* any-key heads home
* shevy follows any-key
<AndChat|> Pry uses it too
<shevy> sorry AndChat| ... am stalking, can't talk
<Okasu> what toolkits for ruby do you know wxcept tk and shoes?
<shevy> ruby-gtk
<shevy> go use it
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<Avi`> HCI lol
<Avi`> all the interests sounded like someone in college describing their class lineup basically
<Avi`> real life rarely coincides with college classes (atleast for me certainly)
<Avi`> one of my coworkers daughters is going to CMU For HCI
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<shevy> what is HCI
<Avi`> human-computer interactions
<Avi`> a college way of saying 'UI Design'
<Avi`> or 'that thing engineers are forced to do because HI is too busy to provide mock ups'
<nilspetter> robyurkowski: quoute { my first 'serious' problem was duplication of my mp3s by itunes } how did you solve that with ruby? there's no obvious way to control itunes with ruby, is there? :S
<robyurkowski> nope, but there is a way to control files :)
<robyurkowski> technically, I could have written applescript, too
<nilspetter> linux?
<robyurkowski> windows, too
<robyurkowski> at the time, I was on windows
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<robyurkowski> I was 14 years old
<robyurkowski> so almost 10 years ago now
<nilspetter> is that practical. wouldn't you have to do OLE32WIN and send stuff trough it in an very awkward un-ruby fashion?
<robyurkowski> to be honest, it's so long ago i don't even remember
<robyurkowski> but i'm not sure why you wouldn't just use fileutils
<nilspetter> oh. yea. my bad
<nilspetter> i was still thinking of direct link to itunes.. like getting track name and stuff
<nilspetter> (currenttly playing track)
<robyurkowski> you can do that with an IDv3 tag reader
<robyurkowski> or that, you could do with applescript
<robyurkowski> run as an executable command in ruby and then have that data available to your script
<lantins> there's gems to let you do that kinda thing nilspetter, it may be a hook into applescript stuff though, remember playing with something like that once =)
<nilspetter> applescript != ruby
<nilspetter> ah
<nilspetter> use both.. that's not convient .. but .. nevertheless possible
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<robyurkowski> you have to use something that has access to itunes's api
<robyurkowski> that's just the way programming works
<nilspetter> hmm.. i believe i used that a couple of years ago actually :P
<lantins> ruby <-> applescript bridge perhaps, just remember finding it via rubyflow
<robyurkowski> for apple, that's through applescript or direct cocoa bindings
<nilspetter> (i just rediscovered my passion for ruby)
<robyurkowski> you could do it in macruby
<Avi`> err no
<Avi`> you just go modify the xml file
<Avi`> itunes stores its data in a file ruby can parse and manipulate
<Avi`> that data tells you everything about the library
<shevy> eeks XML
<Avi`> *shrug* ruby can parse it.
<robyurkowski> Avi`: My problem was that, at the time, I had duplicate files, rather than dupe library entries
<Avi`> it tells you paths to songs etc too, so you canhave ruby delete duplicate songs
<robyurkowski> this was also circa 2001 >_>
<robyurkowski> itunes is much better now
<Avi`> also this is a solved problem
<Avi`> i can think of atleast 5 tools off the top of my head that deal with managing itunes libraries
<robyurkowski> haha
<Avi`> including dupe detection and removal (itunes itself has something for this too)
<robyurkowski> yep
<robyurkowski> they built that in
<robyurkowski> that was a nice feature to have
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<Avi`> (im not a big fan of spending my energy recreating wheels so i hate solving solved problems)
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> I like solving solved problems
<lantins> depends on what the problem it is. solving something yourself can be a massive learing op
<shevy> but only for small problems
<Avi`> lantins: sure, just depends on the problem
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<Avi`> itunes library management doesn't get me going so
<Avi`> not a problem i want to learn on ;)
<lantins> lol, agreed
<robyurkowski> no argument from me :)
<Avi`> i'd rather do ruby koans
<Avi`> =)
<shevy> oh yeah
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<davidcelis> project euler problems
<robyurkowski> one thing i did write recently was an applescript to advance a youtube playlist forward or backward a video
<lantins> konas?
<lantins> that like a code kata thing?
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<davidcelis> lantins: yep
<lantins> ah, last time I tried that I wrote a bruteforce sudoku solver in C :-)
<Avi`> just saying, if you are looking for problems to solve because you lack your own problems
<Avi`> koans/project euler is a good place to start
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<canton7> don't forget aichallenge.org
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<lantins> notes made... although work is really interesting its good to find a problem that's got nothing to do with the day job
<robyurkowski> i'm terrible at euler >_>
<robyurkowski> my math needs a lot of work