<wpwrak>
heh, i think i have the perfect connector problem to drive joerg mad: 0.7 mm pitch ;-) (we don't even have to go into any other details. that alone makes it impossible :)
<wpwrak>
(been thinking of a simple way to make the OLED in anelok a little more modular. seems that this would require a little PCB then)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, oo draw sucks
<DocScrutinizer05>
placing small circles on a larger one, you can't resize the larger circle and the small ones would stay same radius but move their center points accordingly to the large circle
<wpwrak>
try fped :)
<wpwrak>
apt-get install fped may work
<DocScrutinizer05>
prolly not
<wpwrak>
ahm you're of course on suse ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
lemme try something. You got a URL of .deb ?
<wpwrak>
your epicycles simulator would require the use of trigonometry in fped. so it's not really easy (it's not a common pattern/operation in electronics), but doable
<DocScrutinizer05>
ouch, no thanks
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd be absolutely happy when small circels' center point would persistently snap to epicircle
<wpwrak>
maybe it's easier to build it from sources ... ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
now, is that thanks to .deb gets forwarded to that unspeakable "apper" that doesn't know .deb, or is it just because the .deb contains a amd64 ?
<wpwrak>
or maybe suse has it ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
tbh I don't think I want to go 100% parametric as of wpwrak's definition
<wpwrak>
it's easy
<DocScrutinizer05>
as long as there isn't a GUI that does elementary stuff like resize, drag, snap etc for me
<DocScrutinizer05>
sounds like writing poems in tex
<wpwrak>
it does all that. but you have to define the underlying geometry in a parametric way
<wpwrak>
i.e., there's no grid
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I mean: *pure* tex
<wpwrak>
fped has a gui :)
<wpwrak>
but you can also "program" it. with CPP and all that ;-)
<wpwrak>
(but don't mix the two. if you want mix modes, don't use CPP because it doesn't know how to preserve that information)
<DocScrutinizer05>
how would I create two circles that touch each other?
<wpwrak>
you set the two radii, make a a vector (r1, 0) and attach to it a vector (r2, 0)
<wpwrak>
then you draw a circle with center at the first vector to its end, and another one from the end of the 2nd vector to its beginning
<wpwrak>
exact details depend a bit on how the geometry of your circles is defined, but that's the basic approach: you define the geometrical structure with vectors, then you put lines, circles, rectangles, pads, or holes on them
<wpwrak>
if you're just using it as cad, forget about the pads and holes
* DocScrutinizer05
feels like in school, messing around with an enormous clumsy compass and a set square and chalt on the chalkboard
<wpwrak>
you can also turn circles into arcs
<wpwrak>
well yes, but your drawing tools are pretty alive this time :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, they are pretty formal it seems
<wpwrak>
the workflow is optimized for translating footprint drawings in data sheets. there, you usually have "this many mm up from here", "this many mm from the center", etc.
<wpwrak>
fped knows a bit of trigonometry so you can do also the more common other operations.
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, it seems to not know about snapping
<wpwrak>
something else it does it to let you vary parameters. you can have tables with sets of parameters. so you you, say, have five different circle diameters, you can make a table with them
<wpwrak>
for the circle, drag from the start to the end
<wpwrak>
or are you at the vector ?
<wpwrak>
you also drag the vector
<wpwrak>
then click on it to edit the parameters
<DocScrutinizer05>
look, I draw a circle. How would I create a vector that starts at circle's center?
<DocScrutinizer05>
how would I find the point where the vector cuts the circle?
<DocScrutinizer05>
how would I start a new vector there that has same direction like the first one?
<wpwrak>
the vector is your radius
<wpwrak>
you attach v2 at the end of v1
<DocScrutinizer05>
how would I create a 2nd circly at end of the 2nd vector?
<wpwrak>
for the direction, you set your parameters accordingly. depends on what you want to do
<wpwrak>
you click and drag from the end of v2 to the beginning of v1
<wpwrak>
err, beginning of v2 / end of v1
<DocScrutinizer05>
"set parameters accordingly" sounds like I'd be better off with a HP41C doing the calculations for me
<wpwrak>
shall i walk you through it ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
why do I need a CAD then?
<wpwrak>
do you have fped running ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, I think I'm not that interested
<wpwrak>
was der bauer nicht kennt ... ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
as long as the thing doesn't know a "pick from drawing" mode for arbitrary parameters, where you click near a significant point and it picks the closest*highest-significance point next to where you clicked and picks the (usually) X,Y from it...
<wpwrak>
actually, i lied. it has a pseudo-grid it uses when you create new vectors. but it's only real purpose is to let you drawn vectors at 90 deg angles (so that you only need to edit one parameters, saving you some 0.5 seconds ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
so I'd draw a circly anywhere, then hit F37 or whatever to enter "parametric mode" which pops up a window with all parameters of the circly, I click into "center x" and into "center y" then hit F38 to "pick from drawing" and click near the corner of a square...
<DocScrutinizer05>
it still wouldn't solve the touching-circles problem in one step, but for sure in two or three
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd also like to have the option to either "pic by value" or "pick by reference"
<wpwrak>
but all that's not parameteric
<DocScrutinizer05>
"pick by reference" would glue the circle's center to the square's corner
<wpwrak>
it's merely a way to use either mouse or keyboard to enter a number
<DocScrutinizer05>
^^^
<wpwrak>
ah, so if you resize the square, it stays at the corner ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, when circle#s center is by reference to the wquare
<DocScrutinizer05>
square even
<wpwrak>
okay, that's a big step in the right direction
<DocScrutinizer05>
mind you, I'm just picking the value for a textfield (center X,Y) in circle's parameter dialog
<wpwrak>
but that would break the reference, right ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
by reference would probably result in something like "$object14.(origin+Y)"
<wpwrak>
okay, so they have a parametric mode
<wpwrak>
not just numbers but expressions
<DocScrutinizer05>
who says a text input field can only hold numbers?
<wpwrak>
and yes, my vectors are "origin" or such. only that i made vectors first-class objects, not things you extract from the things you actually draw
<wpwrak>
it's much tidier that way
<wpwrak>
(and if you really hate them, you can also hide them :)
<wpwrak>
note that i actually made three drawings: one with the circles on the outside, one on the inside, one on the big circle. you can switch between the three
<wpwrak>
if you do't like the big circle, just delete it. since the geometry is derived from the vectors anyway, the rest still works
<wpwrak>
(note that the 2nd picture isn't quite clean since the big circle is draw three times. you'd have to add another frame to avoid that. of course, the visual result is the same in this case. it would be a problem if you defined pads/pins, though, since they would overlap)
<DocScrutinizer05>
nice, but quite hard to grok, and looks more like writing programs than like drawing
<wpwrak>
yeah, nearly as intuitive as $object14.(origin+Y) ;-)
<wpwrak>
NOT nearly even
<DocScrutinizer05>
tzzz
<DocScrutinizer05>
the little difference being that I wouldn't type a single char of all that
<wpwrak>
well, i just clicked for most things, too ...
<wpwrak>
and do you actually have a primitive for angular iteration ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, maybe in "copy" under "rotation" ?
<wpwrak>
okay. now a challenge: change the number of circles :)
<wpwrak>
in fped, you basically have to world views: "objects" and "instances". objects are what you draw, instances are what you see. by making this distinction explicit, controlling what happens is very straightforward
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually oo draw calls that "duplicate"
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it has a parameter "number of copies"
<wpwrak>
of course you don't really think of it as object/instance but you just have fped "replicate" things for you
<DocScrutinizer05>
change numbver of circles? easy! click on one of the epicircles, select "show tree", go one up in tree to find "duplicate", click on it to open parameter requester, change "number of copies" to whatever you like
<wpwrak>
ah, nice. so they maintain the tree as well. good.
<DocScrutinizer05>
what's ow? again not good enough for a hacker that doesn't use a mouse?
<wpwrak>
can you "fuse" items ? that's an operation that often breaks such trees (it theory it wouldn't have to, but in many cad system that's what happens)
<DocScrutinizer05>
fuse?
<wpwrak>
so something that creates something new from two different objects. e.g., line between the centers of two circles
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry
<wpwrak>
(that "loss of tree" is particularly infuriating in 3D cad systems)
<wpwrak>
(i guess they do it because their tree would then become a loop-free directed graph. still not really difficult but of course getting messy)
<DocScrutinizer05>
vector between two circle centers? easy: draw a vector, clicking close to center of first circle, drag til near center of second circle
<wpwrak>
(in fped, the vectors form a tree. and the visible objects (lines, etc.) connect "leafs" of that tree. so the structure can be kept a bit simpler.)
<DocScrutinizer05>
select by-value or by-reference mode for each the start end end point of your vector
<wpwrak>
okay. now change the number if circles in the duplication
<wpwrak>
still okay ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, when you picked circle numer 8 as one of your vector's points, and it's by reference, and you then change duplication multiplier so that circle doesn't exist anymore, then you run into an exception that you need to think about how your program is supposed to handle it
<wpwrak>
does it tell you that ? or what does it do ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
your could: a) highlight the error/problem, b) convert the by-ref into by-val, c) make "duplicate" be aware it needs to create a virtual 8th circle which would move your center point of your vector to 360 * 8/7
<wpwrak>
no, i mean what das ooffice do ? does it pop up a dialog to offer you these choices ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
d) highligt the problem already on editing "duplicate" parameter
<DocScrutinizer05>
oo?? knows shit about all that
<wpwrak>
err, about what program are we talking ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
oo can't even link objects, except by "grouping" placing them which simple locks their parameters
<DocScrutinizer05>
to each other sub object of group
<DocScrutinizer05>
err, we're talking about...
<wpwrak>
(fped simply ignores things that don't get instantiated. they "come back" if/when the parameters are such that they get instantiated / "exist")
<wpwrak>
joergCAD ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
<DocScrutinizer05> no, I think I'm not that interested. as long as the thing doesn't know a "pick from drawing" mode for arbitrary parameters, where you click near a significant point and it picks the closest*highest-significance point next to where you clicked and picks the (usually) X,Y from it...
<wpwrak>
i thought you said it had references ? or was that also already joergCAD ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
joergCAD, of course
<wpwrak>
man, you are a piece of work ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
oo draw sucks
<wpwrak>
well, rejoice - fped can do pretty much all joergCAD would do ;-)
<wpwrak>
that's more like what i expected :)
<wpwrak>
i was rather surprised by all the impressive features you mentioned. it's not that they would be all that far-fetched, just that nobody seems to get them right (if they even try at all)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd try ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
if I were to code such thing
<wpwrak>
i mean, that's why i use fped as cad. it's not really meant to be a general-purpose cad but it still beats the "competition" so badly that it's almost ridiculous
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd even try to come up with a way to pick closest point of a circle aka find vector intersection
<wpwrak>
yeah, for classroom-grade geometry you'd basically want a "puzzle solver". freecad has that. it gets very confusing very quickly, though
<DocScrutinizer05>
usecase: I draw a circle (watching dynamic update of bottom status line mouse-X, mouse-Y for center, status line radius for size). then I draw a "infinite" line (click next circle center for origin, watch status line for angle). then I draw a second circle like the first one, just this time I click next to the line way out of circle1 for center of circle2. Then I pull circle2, clicking next to intersection of circle2 with line and
<DocScrutinizer05>
pull that towards circle1 until it snaps
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<wpwrak>
in freecad you draw the elements, then you specify constraints. e.g., beginning of this line is coincident with the center of this circle, this line is parallel to that other one, this line has a length of 100 mm, etc.
<DocScrutinizer05>
then I remove the line (effectively making it just virtual/invisible)
<wpwrak>
then freecad tries to find an arrangement of things that meets all the constraints. and it tells you how many degrees of freedom you still have left.
<DocScrutinizer05>
funny
<wpwrak>
the problem is that this very graphical approach gets messy very quickly because you have little constraint symbols all over the place
<wpwrak>
already a rectangle with rounded corners is messy
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, useless
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, of course you need cartesic as well as polar coords for your lines/vectors
<wpwrak>
fped has sin and cos for that ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
karthesic?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, taht sucks
<wpwrak>
cartesian
<DocScrutinizer05>
thanks :-)
<wpwrak>
sin/cos are nice to have if you need to go deeper into geometry. as i said, these are already things that are rarely needed
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you have to start with tan() and arctan(9 when it comes to length of line, that really sucks
<wpwrak>
tan maybe. atan shouldn't be needed. i think i don't even offer it
<wpwrak>
naw, no atan. you have sin, cos, sqrt, and floor (for rounding)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think of the whole thing like a very special form of spreadsheet
<wpwrak>
dunno
<DocScrutinizer05>
and in this speadsheet each "object" (row?) must have a length for example
<wpwrak>
my approach is "progressive" - you build the thing step by step, rarely "looking back"
<DocScrutinizer05>
so you easily can mark several adjacent objects and do sum(length)
<wpwrak>
well, in fped you can sum = a+b+c is may be more readable at the end of the day ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wtf is a, b, c?
<wpwrak>
your three lengths
<DocScrutinizer05>
uhuh, so you got them for the sum() function but not for directly reading them?
<wpwrak>
if get them directly from the parameters that define them, not indirectly from the objects that use the parameters :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
tell me how that look for a closed polygon you grouped from 53 vectors. Can you write the furmula in one max line length of IRC?
<wpwrak>
while there are some equations, they're pretty intuitive
<wpwrak>
now you're asking for a diagonal ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yay, typo galore
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, talking about polar coords I of course allow all possible angles
<wpwrak>
and indeed, fped doens't have a sum(field:field) function. it doesn't FFT, complex math, non-Euclidean geometry, prime number search, etc., either ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
you'd probably write a true program with for-loops and all, to get the circumference of a polygon
<wpwrak>
it's not even turing-complete :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
too bad
<wpwrak>
i think what you want is autocad. that's loaded with all sorts of crap as well ;-)
<wpwrak>
it may take you a day to find the function that does what you want, but it's there, somewhere, amidst a gazillion of other once-in-a-lifetime functions :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, no. I for now just would insist on the program showing me the length and angle of arbitrary lines/vectors
<wpwrak>
if i really needed that sort of stuff, i'd add some include mechanism (besides cpp #include) and generate the weird stuff with a script ;)
<wpwrak>
oh, fped does that of course
<wpwrak>
see the example
<DocScrutinizer05>
didn't you say your fped comes with outo-metering?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wonder how you can get the length of vectors when it only works for vertical and horizontal ones
<DocScrutinizer05>
is that really useful?
<DocScrutinizer05>
how do you rotate vectors?
<DocScrutinizer05>
do you pull out your HP calculator?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I mean, allowing both polar and cartesian coords for vectors can't be that hard?
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe even - DUH - *show* length and angle while drawing a vector (if fped can do such stuff like "drawing2 a vector interactively, with the mouse)
<wpwrak>
yes, you can but you shouldn't
<wpwrak>
fped is not for artistic drawing. things are very precisely defined dimensions. so you just enter these numbers. no silly trying to hit the right spot with the mouse.
<DocScrutinizer05>
comsidered rather writing postscript by hand? ;-)
<wpwrak>
(rotate vectors) here we meet our old friends sin and cos again :)
<wpwrak>
naw, writing all the postscript generation in fped was bad enough :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
can't have been that bad, to me it looks like it's not much more that a simple syntax translation
<DocScrutinizer05>
than*
* DocScrutinizer05
really woonders how wpwrak woud solve the following task: create a FPGA footprint for 800 balls, with the usual left out pads every now and then. in an angle of 45°, like ♦
<DocScrutinizer05>
2 of those 4:30 were eaten by starting up oodraw and by making screenshot and copy it to wstaw
<wpwrak>
fped doesn't currently have a mechanism to "knock out" things. but you could just make a list of strips/blocks of pads
<DocScrutinizer05>
the pitch is 0.50cm
<wpwrak>
HUGE
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, in 150 seconds I create one with smaller pitch. Unless you accept that pads and gaps shrink by same factor, then it takes 15s
<wpwrak>
what does the pitch matter when drawing ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
huh?
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's meant to be a FPGA footprint
<DocScrutinizer05>
FPGA *have* a certain pitch
<wpwrak>
yes, but why would the pitch affect how long it takes you to draw it ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
not at all
<wpwrak>
exactly :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
but shrinking the whole thing is one single action, while creating the footprint were like 10 actions
<DocScrutinizer05>
3 for the 15*15 grid of pads
<DocScrutinizer05>
N for removing some pads
<DocScrutinizer05>
1 for rotate-right-45°
<wpwrak>
now, let's assume you counted wrong and removed a pad that was meant to stay ... ;-)
<wpwrak>
well, i you still have it in "undo", you'll be fine. else ;-)
<wpwrak>
#s/ i / if /
<DocScrutinizer05>
else I do what you'd have done for whole thing
<DocScrutinizer05>
I copy the pad left-upper of the missing one, down right by sqrt(0.50cm)
<wpwrak>
ooh. i thought you'd precision-drop it with the mouse ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
tzz
<wpwrak>
but you've almost convinced me to add an "else" item to tables :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I could do that as well, copying pos-X parameter from pad above, and pso-Y from left or right
<DocScrutinizer05>
but calculating cartesian coords for "duplicate2 is probably faster than copying absolute values for X,Y from two other objects' parameter dialogs
<wpwrak>
yeah, it does seem to get messy-ish ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
almost near as messy-ish as fped when designing that footprint
<DocScrutinizer05>
not even near
<DocScrutinizer05>
oops, i forgot one step in the virtual 10 steps I claimed it took to design that: group the whole thing, for rotating it
<DocScrutinizer05>
to elaborate: 1) I created a square of arbitrary size for my master pad (I could have used parameter dialog to make sure it has e.g. 0.38mm side length) 2) I picked "duplicate" for the already selected pad, entered the qty "15" and a X skew of 0.5cm (random guess, I could have written 0.5mm as well) 3) I selected the 15 pads and "duplicated" them 15 times with Y skew 0.5cm. 4) I clicked and "del"eted some of the pads, to make it
<DocScrutinizer05>
look more real-life-y 5) I selected all pads and "group"ed them 6) I highlighted the group and picked "rotate", selected center for rotation center and the 45° preset radiobutton. 7) done, snapshot and pastebin
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually the 2.5 minutes this took me were quite slow, since I never before worked with oo draw and thus had to find my way around
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, you know OpenOffice (aka libreoffice) can run macros written in basic, python, whatnot else?
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<CYB3R>
xiangfu: Hi! I tried using usbboot and xbboot from xburst tools, but it keeps telling "no XBurst device found"
<CYB3R>
And I've got a "JZ4750 USB Boot Device" (601a:4750)
<CYB3R>
What may be wrong here?
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<whitequark>
the mystery of package from iceland: http://mailpile.is sent me my crowdfunding reward
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<larsc>
well, that deescalated quickly
apelete_ is now known as apelete
<whitequark>
slowly* :p
<whitequark>
it was not nice of them to specify my nickname on the package. I had to convince post office I was whitequark.
<whitequark>
quote: "we deliver to individual, not address"
<wpwrak>
nom de plume :)
<whitequark>
told them "it is a part of my email, idk why sender wrote it like that"
<whitequark>
was not in mood to explain what exactly "nickname" means, to a 50-something lady in the post office.
<wpwrak>
you could have told them you're an artist and everybody knows you by that name, so it's understandable that they'd make that mistake. e.g., if you sent a letter to "madonna" with the correct address, i kinda doubt she'd have difficulties receiving it (well, her "explosives, antrax, and other unpleasant-surprises-from-weird-fans filtering team would")
<whitequark>
actually you're right, the word "pseudonym" predates internet age for a long time
<whitequark>
should remove any fingerprints / toner
<whitequark>
oh crap
<whitequark>
tried to use DUSTER on insides of printer
<whitequark>
it spewed out a bunch of liquid and there was basically ice everywhere
<whitequark>
also it basically emitted such a powerful stream it detached a spring from some part of it
<whitequark>
wtf
<whitequark>
should be called DISASSEMBLER
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: anyway. it still works and test page is perfect. so... I win?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, yes. seems so
* whitequark
idly plays with that spring
<DocScrutinizer05>
for sure you won some experience ;-P duster kills stuff
<whitequark>
on a second thought I think the spring detached while transportation or by previous owners
<whitequark>
and duster just picked it up
<whitequark>
good thing: it may have jammed it or something.
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're aware that tones is microdust that's extremely hazardous?
<DocScrutinizer05>
toner*
<whitequark>
sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're also aware that printers are filled with it to the label
<whitequark>
there aren't any clouds of toner around, I just wiped whatever adhered to the drum so badly I wouldn't get it off without scrubbing and alcohol
<whitequark>
oh. you mean that
<whitequark>
yes it was not very smart
<whitequark>
however what's even worse is that the air outside my apartments is filled with same microdust from longdistance haul trucks going by all night
<whitequark>
so that is probably what's going to kill me rather than toner
<DocScrutinizer05>
right
<wpwrak>
suicide by toner - to avoid getting killed by chlorine ;-)
<whitequark>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe even one catches the other and they neutralize
<whitequark>
"fight fire with fire", eh?
<whitequark>
although toner on fire sounds extremely bad
<whitequark>
no
<whitequark>
it sounds awesome
<whitequark>
a volumetric explosion of plastic nanoparticles
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway, next time you'll use a vacuum cleaner with hepa-filter
<whitequark>
(hepa filter) right. thanks for the idea
<whitequark>
see, dust is really a problem for me in this apartment. as you may have noticed all my photos of pcbs are extremely dusty
<whitequark>
this is as clean as it ever gets in here. I can clean everyday and it will make no difference
<DocScrutinizer05>
try find out what's that spring for. It might be total nonsense, or essential for proper functioning
<whitequark>
I bet most of it is pulled out from outside
<whitequark>
*nod*
<whitequark>
(dust) I have A/C which claims to have dust filtering and its filters are regularly chock full with dirt
<whitequark>
but that doesn't really seem to reduce its amount in air either
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, that makes me think... move your lab to bathroom maybe? mist is an excellent dust remover
<DocScrutinizer05>
fog, whatever
<whitequark>
eh
<whitequark>
you germans, how big exactly bathrooms do you have?
<DocScrutinizer05>
or get 10 pots with boiling water in your lab
<DocScrutinizer05>
mine is tiny here
<whitequark>
mine has like 4 sq. m. of space
<DocScrutinizer05>
mines has less, probably
<whitequark>
well, and less than 1 of that is even free, after plumbing, washing machine and others
<DocScrutinizer05>
but there's also a shower that has almost 2 with nothing obstructing it
<whitequark>
but you have pointed me to an idea, get an air humidifier
<whitequark>
for my living room / lab
<DocScrutinizer05>
humidifier is of limited usefulness
<whitequark>
well, doesn't it basically make mist? with an ultrasound emitter
<DocScrutinizer05>
only real fog takes out 99.9999% of dust particles from air
<whitequark>
you can really make enormous amounts of mist with that thing if you pump a few watts in it
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, you don't really want those 90% humidity plus fog in all your lab
<whitequark>
and you told me to move it to bathroom!
<DocScrutinizer05>
but you can run your shower for 15min in your bathroom, and them move the printer and laminator to there
<whitequark>
operating mains electronics in a bathroom right after running shower there. not sure if serious or trying to kill me :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's a proven procedure to apply screen protectors etc
<whitequark>
oh?
<whitequark>
interesting
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, even while there's probably a recommendation to not run the printer in humid air or even fog, I think it#s not really dangerous