<nicksydney>
DocScrutinizer05: so he is more in the camp of 'closed hardware' ?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I dunno which "camp" he is. I just know that the iniative to maybe eventually disclose the Neo900 eagle project files came from my side and Nikolaus is very reluctant and the topic not finalized yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
initiative*
<DocScrutinizer05>
Nikolaus says that the public schematics should suffice
<DocScrutinizer05>
this however isn't what some guys understand by "open hardware". And I'm pretty sure Nikolaus will not push in pandora in any such direction
<DocScrutinizer05>
he's not one of the radical "FOSS hardware" fans, he has a more pragmatic approach towards "hardware with open documentation"
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw he's on same page like me regarding that
<DocScrutinizer05>
I also don't see why community would need a professional eagle project file that nobody could use for anything, unless they have a license of Eagle Professional and would want to start their own competing business building the Neo900 in nnn batches
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw Openmoko never published those data
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<nicksydney>
interesting to head this
<nicksydney>
not sure about competitor...but having the schematics it will helped maker like myself and also future students in uni to learn on how this devices actually work and try to make it (if ever they want to go to that path)
<nicksydney>
i've learned a *LOT* more about hardware after reading lot of schematics and see the pattern and resemblence in each design
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, and schematics is what open hardware will ship with. NOT the gerbers for PCB manufacturing though
<nicksydney>
yeah that should be more than enough
<DocScrutinizer05>
the purpose of such a project usually is NOT to allow others to build it themselves, it's to empower the user to OWN the device completely, and understand every single (relevant) detail of how it works
<DocScrutinizer05>
layout is not a relevant detail in this scenario
<DocScrutinizer05>
component placement plus schematics is sufficient even to do most sophisticated repair jobs
<nicksydney>
there will always different thoughts and ideas from different party
<DocScrutinizer05>
eh?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I create a product. I define the product. the definition says: user gets full documentation needed to understand and even repair everything in the device. Why should I bother about any different thoughts and ideas?
<DocScrutinizer05>
if you like my product as defined, you may consider buying it. Otherwise, not.
<nicksydney>
what i'm trying to point out is people look at a project will think different than people who are in the project....and it will not be possible to please people who are outside the project and fulfill what they want
<DocScrutinizer05>
when I label this product "open hardware" then your definition of the term might differ, but that's still not my problem
<nicksydney>
exactly !
<nicksydney>
so it depends on the people who are running the project to do what they think is best for the project as people outside will always complain and whine all the time and there is no point spending time catering for their whining...better start their own project if they want to
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
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<nicksydney>
this always apply for any project I see either it's hardware or software
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<nicksydney>
if people want to demand something than better contribute otherwise just be a spectator
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, depends. When the product is closed and doesn't comply the specs and/or implicit promises it came with, then of course I may complain at those in charge to fix the problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
when however the product is 100% open, then I hardly can argue that anything in the product needs to get changed or done in a different way, since I bought it the way it is and it's been known at that time.
<nicksydney>
that is consumer's right of course
<nicksydney>
if you buy something regarless of the nature of the license and you are not delivered the promised product you have the absolute right to complain
<nicksydney>
but if from the beginning it is stated that the spec may be different after production than there is nothing can be done
<nicksydney>
that's why a lot of complain about kickstarter
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's why Neo900 only specifies targets, but no warranted specs
<DocScrutinizer05>
we however will publish specs and even schematics before we accept first real order for a product
<DocScrutinizer05>
until then, everything subject to change
<DocScrutinizer05>
even up to the point where the project gets cancelled (since maybe the two guys who lead it can't agree on stupid organizational stuff, and silly requirements are put up)
<nicksydney>
i'm always intrigued on how project like openmoko for example start ... neo900 is like part 2 of openmoko....maybe you can point me to any reading ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>so it begun:<< 3rd word is a link
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: actually, I have some doubts whether *endmill* is the right thing to use on *PCBs*
<whitequark>
I think I would have much more success (and less breakage) with engraving bits simply due to the fact that they're more mechanically durable
<whitequark>
sure, it is a problem that they're conical and not cylindrical, but it doesn't matter with the Z precision of my mill
<whitequark>
it really pisses me off that Amazon doesn't have filtering by delivery speed... 17-28 business days is not acceptable
<whitequark>
oh, the same vendor on ebay offers expedited shipping, good.
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<qi-bot>
[commit] Paul Cercueil: Show disk usage of the home partition, not the one mounted on /boot (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b084681
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<kyak>
out of interest. anybody watching the olympics opening right now?
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<viric>
kyak: in the city free of gays? :)
<viric>
The Mer was very proud of "that"
<kyak>
ok
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<CYB3R>
Hi all!
<CYB3R>
Could anyone please explain me where to find Tref value for SDRAM?
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