<wolfspraul>
if it's "ARM focused", it already cannot have 'similar goals'
<wolfspraul>
either or. ARM is making proprietary licensed digital ICs. If that's not part of copyleft hardware there is no need for copyleft hardware.
<wolfspraul>
is microbuilder's stuff freely licensed? maybe I can add them to the planet...
<wolfspraul>
"PCB manufacturing -- even of prototypes -- isn't a business you really want to be in. It's very labour intensive, requires reasonably expensive equipment to produce repeatable results that correspond to modern fine-pitch parts, and involves a number of chemical processes."
<wolfspraul>
tell that to Werner...
<wolfspraul>
what is the license of their content, cannot find anything other than (c) microbuilder ...
<wolfspraul>
"we do still use some commercial tools and software products simply because a little bit of money can sometimes go a long way in terms of productivity."
<kristianpaul>
"All information on this website is provided strictly for information and entertainment purposes only" 0_o
<wolfspraul>
... enough
<kristianpaul>
yeah :-)
<wolfspraul>
I wish there were something like fedex, but using cargo ships instead of airplanes
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul they develop for ARM, Nanonote uses a proprietaty SOC from Ingenic. I was not promoting them, just mentioning that they have similar goals
<wolfspraul>
so I want very good service on the sending and receiving end, but I want to take out the expensive airlift in exchange for a much slower but cheaper sea voyage
<wolfspraul>
need to look around a little...
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: at least not same licesing goals..
<rjeffries>
since you liked that one so much... ;)
<wolfspraul>
you are free to think that microbuilder and qi share 'similar goals' :-)
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: cargo ships? how many devices are you going to ship?
<wolfspraul>
reminds me that I need to spend some more time on faq/about/roadmap/goals pages in the wiki...
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: nah, that's my point. I don't see cargo as 'thousands of something'
<wolfspraul>
I want to ship 1 Ben NanoNote :-)
<kristianpaul>
hum :-)
<wolfspraul>
basically a new business. combine the speed and service level of fedex with cargo ships. why not?
<kristianpaul>
surelly already exits.
<wolfspraul>
ships nowadays means quite manual process on sending and receiving end
<kristianpaul>
i was thinking in delivrer time
<wolfspraul>
and when you go fedex/dhl etc. it's always airlifted (mostly, they do some ground service in the us, but no ships I think)
<wolfspraul>
of course it will be slow
<wolfspraul>
but another option, also much more eco friendly
<kristianpaul>
pre order mm1-rc3 now to get it on august ! ;)
<wolfspraul>
I just read an article today how the cargo ships are becoming slower now, because it's so much cheaper
<rjeffries>
Microbuilder license: This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License. Use of this design should be attributed to: microBuilder.eu.
<wolfspraul>
nah it's not that much
<wolfspraul>
a lot of the cargo ship delay is because of manual/slow processes on sending and receiving side
<wolfspraul>
rjeffries: url? is that for all content on their site?
<wolfspraul>
so the cargo ships typically do 22-23 knots right now, but some new ones being optimized for 17 knots now, maybe even less later
<wolfspraul>
saves up to 60% energy costs
<rjeffries>
that was on a board design I was looking at. look, they have their heart in the right area. they are not competing with you.
<wolfspraul>
that's actually cool. We can offset some of the slowness with better digital logistics, just start a 'stream' :-)
<wolfspraul>
you should think a bit more about 'competing' in free projects
<wolfspraul>
if there is a free project, it helps me
<wolfspraul>
I can copy/paste
<wolfspraul>
please compete with me
<wolfspraul>
well, you tried with UBB :-)
<wolfspraul>
no, microbuilder is disappointing to me
<rjeffries>
it is a free project they admit to using some proprietary tools
<wolfspraul>
they need a bigger vision, bigger goals
<wolfspraul>
proprietary tools will hold us down
<wolfspraul>
they need to be replaced with free tools, for economic reasons (which you don't understand because you do so little manufacturing)
<rjeffries>
everybody does not have to shar your exact vision
<wolfspraul>
proprietary digital ICs need to be replaced as well
<wolfspraul>
ahh
<wolfspraul>
are you saying now there are 'similar goals' or not? :-)
<rjeffries>
ben used proprietary tools. give me a break
<wolfspraul>
you said 'similar goals', now you say "do not need to share exact vision"
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: so let's see. let's say 20,000 km long distance voyage.
<rjeffries>
all I am saying is that particular outfit is running a little business that may be helpful to their customers, they sahre some DNAm yes. ;)
<wolfspraul>
yes some pieces are nice!
<wolfspraul>
but just not very ambitious I think, don't you agree?
<wolfspraul>
I can include their blog in the planet, that's a start so we can learn about what's going on there
<rjeffries>
so we ag ree: there is one and only one Wolfgang Spraul. Is that a bug, or a feature> <smile>
<rjeffries>
they are biting off a small bite I agree but also feel it is useful
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: if it arrives safe as with fedex, but i dont pay all tha money, plus i may save also in taxes, is an excenlent choice !
<wolfspraul>
the cc-by-sa is for the reference design
<kristianpaul>
actually i was told once, some people here  buy cars from panama and send it to colombia/buenaventura port using cargo chips.. so may be this is not so uncomon.
<kristianpaul>
but ben still not as big as car ;)
<kristianpaul>
i saw all days, since child those containers saying china shipping :-)
<rjeffries>
the idea of a lean mean highly automated cargo ship service is interesting. but I think it already exists, no?
<kristianpaul>
i think main issue will be pickup your stuff
<rjeffries>
the modulo is 20 ft or 40 ft container. then there is a labrith of guys who consolidate less than container loads into containers
<larsc>
wolfspraul: do you think it will be possible to setup a mailinglist for jz47xx kernel development on the qi-hardware server?
<wolfspraul>
sure of course
<wpwrak>
let me sneak in one more little item ...
<wolfspraul>
I've changed some of your pics for better ones, as you said
<wolfspraul>
added a nice entry about azonenberg (maybe check that for factual correctness)
<wolfspraul>
added jane's colemak thing
<wolfspraul>
ben-wpan production
<wolfspraul>
reordered things a bit
<wolfspraul>
larsc: what name do you want?
<larsc>
wolfspraul: jz47xx-kernel
<wolfspraul>
not for 5x 6x? (just asking)
<larsc>
hm?
<wolfspraul>
oh
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
too little sleep last night
<larsc>
no problem
<miko_mirane>
hi
<miko_mirane>
I have a DB9 6-button game controller from those DVD Players they sell in China.
<miko_mirane>
and I was planning to connect it to a PC
<miko_mirane>
what software do I need? do I still need to add a few components?
<miko_mirane>
hello?
<kyak>
miko_mirane: wrong channel
<miko_mirane>
where do I ask then?
<miko_mirane>
apologizes
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the latest news item just made it to the qi-hw list :)
<wpwrak>
(reading through the june news now ...)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: "We decided to market Milkymist One as a video synthesizer, not interactive VJ station as planned before." - no rationale ? e.g., a link to a posting announcing the change, or maybe an IRC discussion ? or was this decided completely behind closed doors ?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: no photos from rejon's event in montreal ?
<wolfspraul>
[rejon's event] don't ask me
<wolfspraul>
I haven't seen any picture until today, no
<wolfspraul>
[behind closed doors], well that's a marketing change only (nothing changes on the technology), so by nature it's very subtle
<wpwrak>
rejon: ?
<wolfspraul>
the genesis was that Sebastien had this realization when he wrote the Wikipedia article
<wolfspraul>
something struck him
<wolfspraul>
"hmm. maybe this _is_ a video synthesizer actually"
<wolfspraul>
must have been something like that
<wolfspraul>
not 'behind closed doors', but 'deep in his brain', yes
<wolfspraul>
then I saw it, and I liked it, then I went to many other people to ask about their opinion, and all but one liked it better than 'interactive vj station'
<wpwrak>
heh ;-) but there must be *some* context, no ? even "this sounds better/clearer" would add a bit of rationale
<wolfspraul>
this is about understanding
<wolfspraul>
it's very subtle
<wolfspraul>
go to a strange, explain what m1 is
<wpwrak>
hah, who's the black sheep ? :)
<wolfspraul>
you can try
<wolfspraul>
no there is no context
<wolfspraul>
I think this was a realization that struck sebastien when he wrote the wikipedia article
<wolfspraul>
probably when looking up links into the encyclopedia etc.
<wolfspraul>
but since then I tried, and trust me "video synthesizer" works much better with many people to explain what m1 does
<wolfspraul>
definitely far better than 'interactive vj station'
<wolfspraul>
we can even say that and write "when writing the Wikipedia article, we realized that m1 is better described as a video synthesizer" :-)
<wolfspraul>
actually it may not have happened exactly when writing that article, need to ask sebastien
<wolfspraul>
but the key thing for me is that most people that know the product now like it better, that's why we're moving with that now
<wpwrak>
no no, i get the "subtle" bit. but you make the change for a reason. e.g., because you expect it sounds better, because it conveys the message better, because you found that the other name was trademarked, that it sounds like a four-letter word in kuru, whatever
<wolfspraul>
because more people understand quicker what the product does
<wolfspraul>
or their second question goes in the right direction, after hearing 'video synthesizer', whereas it goes into all sorts of crazy directions after hearing 'interactive vj station'
<wpwrak>
great. that's the tiny piece of information missing in that news item
<wpwrak>
the collage of ubb-vga pix sums it up prettily :) a bit space-grabbing, but nice :)
<whitequark>
maybe then just link to attachment?
<wpwrak>
yeah, i would probably do that. sebastien's mail adds nearly zero context
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: since you mention the MM1 wikipedia page, maybe also mention that kristianpaul has resurrected the Ben NanoNote page as well ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_NanoNote
<wpwrak>
looks good. since there's already so much stuff, maybe it would even be better to keep the ben-wpan production testing stuff for the july editition
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: yes, let's move ben-wpan production to the next one, I'll add an entry in 07-01 already
<wpwrak>
i posted a few articles on testing tools back in april. but they also pop up on the "proper" documentation i just announced (well, except the "snake" game ;-), so they "migrate" implicitly
<wolfspraul>
the mplayer item already mentions 'webm formats'
<wolfspraul>
that's enough I think
<wpwrak>
ah, VP8 \in WebM, i see. perfect then
<wpwrak>
ubb-vga /. still needs the DP and hackaday links
<wpwrak>
first of all, does it HAVE to be wifi ? or would any other wireless do, too ? you can cobble together an atben-analogue for a few dollars. (just reuse the atben design)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I think I'll eventually replicate the atben (it is one-layer, right?), but that's not the case
<whitequark>
the whole point of the project is to connect to existing WiFi network
<whitequark>
or maybe it's better to dump the idea and forget about that.
<larsc>
use a spi->usb adapter and a usb wifi stick
<larsc>
and gpio-bit-bang the spi bus ;)
<whitequark>
larsc: that's... beaverly.
<roh>
and power-wasting. usb is really bad when it comes to using energy
<roh>
check out some zydas based chipsets. i've seen some wifi sticks woith
<roh>
with an 'wifi finder' included. the finder was a 8051 connected via serial or spi
<roh>
the chipset can be used via usb, serial and spi
<wpwrak>
whitequark: (atben) it's two layers. but still quite diy-able :)
<wpwrak>
larsc: in java ;-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: any vias?
<whitequark>
roh: I've had a zd1211 dongle, but unfortunately it was fried out by reversed motherboard connector
<whitequark>
so, are you saying that they have an usable UART interface?
<whitequark>
(my board does not have SPI and bitbang imho is not an options
<whitequark>
*option
<wpwrak>
whitequark: 56 vias on atben (the exact number depends on the board geometry/size - most of them are for RF)
<roh>
whitequark: i know they got 3 interfaces and afaik (from my head) it was usb spi and serial. also there were 'some' documents avail.
<roh>
but its not really a 'mobile' chipset, so it still eats lots of power
<whitequark>
wpwrak: oh... I won't be able to do that manually
<whitequark>
roh: I don't need it to be mobile. the device is wall-powered
<roh>
atleast compared to 'for mobile phones'-chipsets
<roh>
well, then go for the zydas
<roh>
atleast i would try that. these ready-made wifi embedded solutions are really expensive
<roh>
to be fair... maybe something like a openwrt-compatible wifi router is your solution. available from 25Euros its even comparedably cheap
<whitequark>
roh: I need it to be quite compact. like a dongle.
<roh>
i see.
<whitequark>
well, thanks for the idea, I'll investigate it
<wpwrak>
whitequark: (doing it manually) i did. but it's less painful with a cnc drill, agrees :)
<wpwrak>
s/agrees/agreed/
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I'm going to make a CNC machine (they are waaaaay too expensive to buy)
<whitequark>
one guy says he can do all the mechanic parts for ~$300
<whitequark>
using printers/plotters/whatever
<roh>
hm. our ball-screws were more expensive than that
<whitequark>
ahem. ball-screws? what's that?
<wpwrak>
yeah, for USD 300 it may be a fragile thing
<roh>
but i also never experienced backlash
<roh>
whitequark: its a way to move the axis, while having no backlash
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I won't afford to buy for more than $600 anyway
<roh>
try getting used machines from people who care
<roh>
hq tools like such machines are ok to reuse and refurbish
<whitequark>
it's hard to find anyone like that in russia
<roh>
sure? especially them should have shitloads of still working equipment around (mostly because it wasnt built to break)
<roh>
well.. our mill iss from china
<whitequark>
I wasn't been able to find
<roh>
a copycat of a german mill from 15 years ago.
<whitequark>
how expensive it was?
<roh>
about 3.200E or so?
<roh>
but including cnc electronics, drivers, big steppers etc.
<whitequark>
uh, that's surely a lot
<roh>
if you dont need to mill steel, something much less sturdy is making more sense. (and is faster)
<whitequark>
130k roubles...
<roh>
need to run. bbl
<whitequark>
ok bye
<wpwrak>
whitequark: roh's mill is a bit of a monster. you should be able to find a decent tabletop model that can even do soft metals. for less than USD 2000
<wpwrak>
for reference, my MDX-15 has a list price of USD 3145
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I'm somewhat like a student. that's still a lot for me
<roh>
re
<dvdk>
hi,
<dvdk>
have local changes for openwrt-packages.git.  how do i commit now that everything went to 'trunk'?
<kristianpaul>
hello
<dvdk>
'git checkout origin/trunk' then commit?
<kristianpaul>
it seems
<dvdk>
let's try...
<kristianpaul>
just make sure you're update with trunk first :-)
<dvdk>
seems i need to stash first
<dvdk>
i hate it: ONFLICT (delete/modify): liballegro/Makefile deleted in Updated upstream and modified in Stashed changes. Version Stashed changes of liballegro/Makefile left in tree
<dvdk>
maybe i can commit anyway
<kristianpaul>
i dont see stahs pratice with good eyes..
<kristianpaul>
but i'm still too ignorant about git land :-)
<dvdk>
me to
<dvdk>
s/to/too
<kristianpaul>
now i see why patches still rule ;)
<wpwrak>
yeah, when juggling changes, i often  git diff >file; then revert, stash, or such, then re-apply the patch or parts of it
<dvdk>
hmm, now i cannot push
<dvdk>
i also cannot pull
<dvdk>
You are not currently on a branch, so I cannot use any
<dvdk>
'branch.<branchname>.merge' in your configuration file.
<dvdk>
git branch says
<dvdk>
* (no branch)
<dvdk>
  master
<kristianpaul>
hum
<dvdk>
that's why i asked.  i guess 'git checkout' was the wrong route?
<kristianpaul>
git remote?
<dvdk>
same thing has happened to me before
<dvdk>
what's git remote?
<kristianpaul>
show remote branaches or something remote :)
<kristianpaul>
branches*
<kristianpaul>
it just will show
<dvdk>
git remote says 'origin'
<kristianpaul>
git branch -a ?
<dvdk>
yes works
<dvdk>
so i should do 'get checkout remotes/origin/trunk'?
<kristianpaul>
is the remote trunk there?
<kristianpaul>
i think
<dvdk>
git branch still says 'no branch'
<dvdk>
how do i track the remote stuff in a local branch? is that what's missing?
<kristianpaul>
just do git checkout trunk
<dvdk>
it says 'Branch trunk set up to track remote branch trunk from origin.
<dvdk>
'
<dvdk>
sounds good
<dvdk>
git pull says 'up to date'
<dvdk>
git push says 'error: failed to push some refs to 'git@projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-packages.git'
<kristianpaul>
git push origin trunk?
<dvdk>
it says 'everything up to date'
<dvdk>
which is a lie i guess
<dvdk>
ah, maybe i just lost all my local changes?
<kristianpaul>
but you made changes in other branch
<dvdk>
yes lost all my changes
<kristianpaul>
or they are stashed sowmehre..
<dvdk>
because i wasn't on a branch?
<dvdk>
no problem, have the file still open in emacs.  let's just save :)
<kristianpaul>
but git dont let you change branch until commit or stash i think
<qi-bot>
[commit] Ayla: Moved the pandora's "input.conf" file lying in the top directory to the pandora/data directory, replacing the previous (obsolete) one. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/34af938