<kyak> i see the word "patented", have you checked it?
<kyak> having a look at spectec's products page, i must say that these guys have mastered the SDIO..
<kyak> SDIO WiMAX, SDIO Bluetooth, how do you like that..
<wolfspra1l> watch out, reality may be a different thing :-)
<wolfspra1l> but we all like dreams, fairy tales, etc.
<wolfspra1l> so why not :-)
<wolfspra1l> the way I sell stuff is that I first make it, test it, make sure others agree with my assessment of what 'works', make sure it's in stock, make sure I have a reliable and equally tested shipping method, make sure I have a reliable and testing payment method, make sure another 100 things, and then sell it
<wolfspra1l> now.. I'm not the most successful salesman in the world, so something may be wrong with my approach. but spectec, especially the website, doesn't work like this :-)
<wolfspra1l> many oems use the web for marketing purposes
<wolfspra1l> they put things there to assess demand
<wolfspra1l> to confuse competitors
<wolfspra1l> they put things there they know they cannot manufacture, but maybe a huge order comes in which would allow them a big investment to overcome the difficulties
<wolfspra1l> they manufacture a small run, knowing that the economics (yield) can never support a large run
<wolfspra1l> and so on
<wolfspra1l> I don't even think this is necessary 'evil', as in Google evil, because that's how the entire oem/manufacturing industry works, so either one day you get it, or maybe you just don't want to know reality
<wolfspra1l> and then it's a fairy tale, written just for you...
<wolfspra1l> next time I'm in Taipei, I should go back to my Spectec friends, I always had good chats with them, they are very friendly and open
<wolfspra1l> the reality at spectec is that they have maybe 2-3 products that are really a 'hit'
<wolfspra1l> selling well, profitable, etc. something is right with them, maybe feature set, software quality, market demand
<wolfspra1l> spectec may not even know exactly what it is
<wolfspra1l> then they have another 20-30 let's say 'exploratory' products :-)
<wolfspra1l> in various states of technical or economical dysfunction
<wolfspra1l> and hopefully before the current cash cows dry up (for whatever maybe also unknown reason), a new cash cow emerges from those exploratory products...
<kyak> wolfspra1l: the way you described it, i now feel pityfull for spectec :)
<wolfspra1l> why that?
<wolfspra1l> the web is used like that, that's all
<wolfspra1l> I wrote all this without even going to spectec.com.tw :-)
<wolfspra1l> spectec.com.tw != apple.com
<wolfspra1l> or spectec.tw or whatever it is
<wolfspra1l> I'm just explaining how I would translate their webpage
<wolfspra1l> you are implying that the stuff there 'works', but you shouldn't
<wolfspra1l> unless you like fairy tales
<wolfspra1l> that's my point
<rjeffries> wolfspra1l just noticed numeric "1"in your irc name
<kyak> yeah, i got you
<wolfspra1l> if you are interested in what works, you need to have an in-person meeting with someone from spectec sales
<wolfspra1l> then you ask "what is really selling well?"
<wolfspra1l> "what about those other products on the webpage?"
<kyak> wolfspra1l: i had two sdw-823 in my life, none of them worked, so i can say :)
<wolfspra1l> "what else are you working on that's not on the webpage?"
<wolfspra1l> the webpage is just a starting point/background noise for the conversation :-)
<wolfspra1l> kyak: the second one also didn't work?
<kyak> nope -\
<wolfspra1l> in which way? I think most people who had one go them to work, quite well actually
<wolfspra1l> is it the card, or something in the software stack/application?
<kyak> i can't figure out
<kyak> the driver seems to work fine
<kyak> i.e. there is the new interface
<wolfspra1l> are you always trying with the same access point (router)?
<rjeffries> spectec.com.tw seems to not be a public web page
<kyak> but "iwlist eth0 scanning" always returns "no data"
<kyak> wolfspra1l: there are several access points in range, but they are not seen
<kyak> i just built the latest ks7010 driver, where lars disabled messy printk's, but it still doesn't work
<wolfspra1l> hmm, I see
<kyak> i remember i was able to connect to WEP access point with my first card
<wolfspra1l> since we are discussing spectec, the 823 was at least manufactured, I think a total of 3k maybe
<kyak> but this time it doesn't work.. like there is nothing in the air
<wolfspra1l> no second run
<kyak> that's strange btw, i would expect a greater demand for this product
<wolfspra1l> many difficulties, first mechanical (the plastic comes off), then the upstream IC maker went out of business and discontinued the chip, SDIO was blocked in WinMobile due to operators request, severely decreasing market size
<wolfspra1l> also some problems with power consumption in some phones
<wolfspra1l> talk is cheap, real life is entirely different
<wolfspra1l> Spected tried, and they always do, so I like them. but this one was too tough.
<wolfspra1l> Spectec
<kyak> i see
<kyak> blocking SDIO, too much freedom :)
<wolfspra1l> it's precisely to stop products like sdio wifi
<kyak> instead of decreasing of prices, operators fight like this..
<wolfspra1l> ok I hope you still get some life out of your second 823
<wolfspra1l> maybe one day... at least it came for free :-)
<wolfspra1l> I have none left now, phew
<wolfspra1l> wifi is such a distraction
<wolfspra1l> very good decision to keep it out of the Ben, not try bundling/integrating, etc.
<kyak> how many cards did you have from spectec?
<wolfspra1l> we would have only raised expectations and decreased user satisfaction
<wolfspra1l> back in the early days I bought 10 or 15 or so, and slowly gave them away
<wolfspra1l> and I went to Spectec a few times, and to Tokyo once (where the IC was made)
<wolfspra1l> good stuff
<wolfspra1l> and the best was the decision to keep it out, ha
<wolfspra1l> :-)
<kyak> i still think that if only Ben had wireless connectivity, you would sell many more by now
<kyak> maybe you could integrate that IC in Ben in the first place, that would've been the best decision
<kyak> i'm trying to understand now the blinking LED status
<kyak> it always blinks ~ once per second
<wolfspra1l> yes but the problem is that we could not make it to work well
<wolfspra1l> "if I had an ipad-like product it would sell very well"
<wolfspra1l> great catch!
<wolfspra1l> but also insanely stupid, especially if you cannot massage your mind to the next level after some time
<wolfspra1l> so the reason I am very cautious about wifi until today is that I know a lot about it, and how hard it is to make work well
<wolfspra1l> the question is not what I want, but what I think I can realistically pull off
<wolfspra1l> looking back I'm very happy how we handled wifi on ben, very very happy
<wolfspra1l> we did that all right, and the future is open, and we will have great wireless connectivity in due time
<kyak> are you talking about atben/atusb?
<wolfspra1l> sure, that's one nice step
<wolfspra1l> also very hard to pull off, but is worth to focus our energy on, imo
<wolfspra1l> makes me wonder how tuxbrain is doing there :-)
<kyak> it is very nice, but then again it's more like a long USB cable
<kyak> there is no atusb in the street or at work or in cafe
<wolfspra1l> sure
<kyak> :)
<kyak> he must be very busy!
<wolfspra1l> as for ben-wpan and street cafes, I can just tell you in general how I feel
<wolfspra1l> sure I want to have a copyleft device that can have decentralized mesh ipv6 connectivity with the whole world
<wolfspra1l> whether you are in the Gobi desert or downtown Manhattan
<wolfspra1l> but well, sorry I'm no visionary enough, I cannot see right now how I can get there :-) or we even...
<wolfspra1l> so since I cannot see the whole path, I may as well do the first step, and do that well
<wolfspra1l> ben-wpan is a nice step, I feel good about it
<wolfspra1l> it's a lot of work to pull off
<wolfspra1l> hardware, software, logistics, etc.
<wolfspra1l> and somehow i think after we made this step well, and are happy, we will know what 2nd step to take
<wolfspra1l> :-)
<wolfspra1l> but I don't know now
<wolfspra1l> and I don't feel the urge to think about the 2nd step, now that the 1st step is so clear and looks enjoyable and doable
<wolfspra1l> I leave that kind of talk to others...
<wolfspra1l> :-)
<wolfspra1l> lately I'm following some efforts to utilize white-space or unlicensed spectrum better, like that PAWS ietf group
<wolfspra1l> is all super early, but at least it gets me thinking
<kyak> i prefer having some kind of plan and thinking several steps ahead.. However, sometimes it's just moving in a darkness and your approach proves to be more reasonable
<wolfspra1l> ok let's make a big plan then
<wolfspra1l> 1. ben-wpan
<wolfspra1l> 2. world domination
<wolfspra1l> we leave out the steps in between, not fun to think about them now
<wolfspra1l> deal?
<kyak> there is something missing in between :)
<kyak> hehe
<wolfspra1l> did we discuss the eff open wireless movement/call here?
<wolfspra1l> 10 years late I think, but not a bad thing of course. better late than never :-)
<kyak> never heard of that
<kyak> "We need WiFi that is open and encrypted at the same time!" <- good point, actually
<kyak> i would've opened my wifi long ago, if it was possible to keep its encryption at the same time
<wolfspra1l> yes sure, but this kind of idea comes 10 years late
<wolfspra1l> we, as in free software people, entirely and completely and irrevocably screwed that up
<wolfspra1l> so seeing this kind of announcement by the EFF in 2011/04 also makes me laugh a little
<kyak> better late than never they say
<wolfspra1l> in fact the big thing that is being pushed into all routers now is exactly the opposite, called WPS
<wolfspra1l> yes for sure, so let's hope they really speed up now on this
<wolfspra1l> nice first step, they realized there may be a need for an 'open wireless movement'
<wolfspra1l> gooooood! :-)
<wolfspra1l> we should have realized this in the late 90's
<kristianpaul> (10 years late), he, yeah :-)
<wolfspra1l> at least after 10+ years of thinking, we came up with a nice headline for the press release
<wolfspra1l> "open wireless movement" - cool!
<wolfspra1l> if we continue like this maybe in 100 years we will actually have such a movement? :-)
<wolfspra1l> that wps stuff is being pushed into routers for several years, and goes exactly in the opposite direction as the things proposed by the eff
<wolfspra1l> in fact I have this nagging feeling that someone at the eff unwrapped a new router, found out about 'wps', didn't like it, and wrote an angry 'call for open wireless movement' letter
<wolfspra1l> but no. it must be better than this. surely/hopefully.
<kyak> actually, i think that the number of wifi spots is decreasing in the last few year (though it's not related to openness). I remember it was problematic to find a cafe with wifi when i was in Frankfurt last year.. Perhaps mcdonalds is the only place that has both free wifi and toilets :)
<wolfspra1l> sure
<wolfspra1l> wifi is done
<wolfspra1l> it's a home technology, and wps will seal that off nicely too
<wolfspra1l> this all has been settled years ago
<wolfspra1l> if you need wireless data now, you have 3g
<kyak> yeah, we have it.. but it's somewhat expensive
<kyak> especially when you are abroad
<wolfspra1l> I'm one of those guys roaming around to find free wifi, I feel old/left-behind :-)
<wolfspra1l> like I said - that train has left, we completely and fully screwed it. so the next thing must be something else, done right from day 1.
<wolfspra1l> and no, I don't expect a global movement of ben-wpan cafes
<wolfspra1l> but we'll find something :-)
<wpwrak> kyak: ah, it's patented. so it must be good ;-))
<kyak> wpwrak: indeed :))
<wpwrak> "Full-color (YUV 4:2:2) 1024 x 768". okay, they have twice the number of bits ubb-vga gets with a few resistors :)
<wpwrak> ah, interesting. tuxbrain already has the pcbs. operating in stealth mode ;-)
<wpwrak> (bare pcbs, not assembled yet)
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: sorry I had to go offline last night
<wolfspraul> kristianpaul posted a link to this battery hack http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic3.jpg
<wolfspraul> and you asked something about a 'contraption' that I didn't understand
<wolfspraul> maybe your question is answered by looking at the other two pictures I uploaded
<wolfspraul> for completeness - I forgot to take a picture before I took the simple casing around the whole thing apart, it looked roughly like this http://www.dinodirect.com/rechargeable-lithium-battery-12v-4800ma-cctv-camera-d-12480.html
<wolfspraul> that's an even bigger version, maybe more cells or bigger cells. I should buy one and cut it open too :-)
<wolfspraul> the casing was made out of thing cardboard plus a blue tape around that
<wolfspraul> thin cardboard
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: (battery) wow, amazing. it is really that simple :) i wonder how long it lasts
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: (casing) excellent. at least they're consistently cheap ;-)
<kristianpaul> gogps?...
<kristianpaul> lets see
<kristianpaul> oh, it uses RTK !!
<kristianpaul> and seems active
<kristianpaul> hopefully will be a better alternative to rtklib :)
<kristianpaul> arggg, no, it is written in java and matlab,, how sweet that? ;)
<wpwrak> be happy that it's not Mathematics and Fortran ;)
<wpwrak> s/Mathematics/Mathematica/
<DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: please tell wolfgang about issues with load balancing in LiIon (or - for that topic - any secondary) batteries in series
<DocScrutinizer> may go pooof on first complete discharge, as one of the cells will get reverse charge before the others are empty
<DocScrutinizer> charging same issue
<DocScrutinizer> weakest cell gets overcharge and thus gets even weaker
<DocScrutinizer> serializing LiIon without active load balancing is a sure way to wreck things
<roh> well. there are chips for that
<DocScrutinizer> and keeping protective circuit on each cell doesn't really help (consider cutout due to overvoltage during charge, which will cause full charge voltage across that circuit)
<DocScrutinizer> roh: look at this: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic2.jpg
<roh> urgh.
<DocScrutinizer> yeah :-S
<roh> somebody doing stupid things voiding all warranties and insurances
<DocScrutinizer> begging for boom
<roh> well.. on discharging it could be ok. on charging it will go boom
<DocScrutinizer> yeah, ruin weak cell on discharge, make it blow on next charge
<roh> overcurrent/undervoltage should have a working cut-off even with 3 bms chips(if there were any)
<roh> ive seen too many bms-less batterys already... cheap chinese clones burning down houses.
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: cute. a weaponized flashlight :)
<DocScrutinizer> yeah
<DocScrutinizer> tube bomb grenade - don't mess with LiIon unless you're sure what you're doing
<DocScrutinizer> pipe bomb actually
<DocScrutinizer> hell that critter easily can kill ya
<DocScrutinizer> and I just mention as a sidenote my appartment that burned down probably because of a battery defect as well (though presumably in NiCd)
<DocScrutinizer> wolfgang should remember how my face looked when I first visited TPE
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: so you put on an appropriately warlike look ;-)
<roh> DocScrutinizer: got a photo from then? i know some good meme-artists *veg*
<DocScrutinizer> I probably scared half TPE crew to death
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: did you wear black ?
<DocScrutinizer> I actually got photos from the day before I left to TPE, but those are NDA
<DocScrutinizer> sure, I always wear black
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: very good. scythe ? :-)
<roh> DocScrutinizer: they were easily scared anyhow. i still remember how weird and uncomfy the room was feeling when i had a 'meeting' with the sw and hw crews
<DocScrutinizer> hehe
<wpwrak> roh: oh, take them for a few beers every now and then and they loosen up :)
<DocScrutinizer> if they dare to join
<roh> 5 or 6 engineers in tpe, and they were scared by me... atleast that was what i was feeling that moment.. very weird. then i sent sean and harald out of the room by just using eye-contact... which didnt make it better *sigh
<DocScrutinizer> LOL
<DocScrutinizer> rotfl
<DocScrutinizer> I *see* it
<roh> wpwrak: while walking out sean gave me some money and i took the guys out for lunch.. on the way back it was MUCH better with them. they were really anctious.
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: oh they do. on the day of the great announcement, i went to 7-11, brought a few cans of beer to the office, and we had a little stick-your-middle-finger-up drinking session at soon-to-be-former-work :)
<DocScrutinizer> oh there been several great announcements
<roh> still funny when thinking bout it. i just thought they will never talk freely while harald and sean stayed in that room. about the message which came along by sending them out... i didnt think enough
<DocScrutinizer> My greatest one was when I resigned
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: the one about the u-turn
<DocScrutinizer> still lost
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: when gta03 was cancelled and half the people laid off
<roh> i should have taken that plastic-vodka-bottle 'spiegelflasche' with me.
<DocScrutinizer> u-turn in gta03?
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: u-turn of the company
<DocScrutinizer> that's been when I already was in retirement
<DocScrutinizer> almost, or actually
<roh> .oO(i wish i could retire too)
<DocScrutinizer> I think we planned to meet in TPE, and then I've been told I can cancel my ticket
<DocScrutinizer> I'm just curious waiting for trisoft's book about the whole OM story ;-D
<wpwrak> trisoft ?
<roh> book?
<DocScrutinizer> the first german reseller
<wpwrak> aah.
<roh> well.. on the other side.. without om we wouldnt have so many develkits for osmocom-bb
<roh> well.. only those from motorola/compal then
<roh> ;)
<DocScrutinizer> [2011-04-29 21:33:56] <TRIsoft> Aber dann hab ich zumindest schonmal zwei Leute, die mein Buch kaufen :D
<DocScrutinizer> [2011-04-29 21:34:18] <TRIsoft> Da ist dann viel Sex, Drugs, aber nur wenig Rock'n'Roll drin :-)
<DocScrutinizer> according to TRIsoft's tales there's been a not exactly helping "new investor" sometime in dec/jan and that caused the final u-turn
<DocScrutinizer> I cloudy recall similar info directly from/still-in TPE
<larsc> and this investor was sponsored by mircosoft?
<DocScrutinizer> prolly, or by HTC or whomever ;-D
<DocScrutinizer> investors always been kinda top secret stuff
<DocScrutinizer> so I dunno
<larsc> i see
<DocScrutinizer> FIC and it's owner been an obvious initial VC-source
<DocScrutinizer> TRIsoft seems to know a lot more
<DocScrutinizer> that's why I'm waiting for the book
<DocScrutinizer> wolfgang of course also knows all the gory details, but I think he doesn't like to talk about it
<DocScrutinizer> all I can tell is it went from "if you think we need that 20k$ device, fly over to HK and get it" in december, to "sorry you're too expensive" in January
<DocScrutinizer> BTW with a week time and that friggin CMU200 I'd actually also been able to spot the #1024
<DocScrutinizer> but as andy always said: our brain is our best analyzing tool, so we spotted #1024 without cmu200
<DocScrutinizer> ooh, the last two lines probably sounded a bit unlinked - the 20k$ device: http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/product/cmu200.html
<DocScrutinizer> a used one of course, new ones are ten times that price
<wpwrak> i was just about to comment on that price ;-)
<DocScrutinizer> I'd have bought it if it hadn't been a slow version not capable of upgrading to 3G
<DocScrutinizer> R&S CMU200 ¬7,500 - Vollständig getestet mit Garantie. ->http://www.google.de/search?q=cmu200&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
<wpwrak> if a device that normally costs 200k is sold for 7.5k, that usually means that it's broken, stolen, or that they never intend to ship it ;-)
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga: added draft for "productized" design http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6f5a8cc
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga: added draft of "productized" assembly http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/3b4f72d
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga/Makefile (vga-ben-back.png): also generate the PCB back side image http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6c3adaf
<DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: ack, or it's hopelessly obsolete and probably stripped down on optional modules
<wpwrak> maybe it's just the packaging material ;-)
<DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: at least on R&S you can get the ser#, call R&S service, and get full specs and history of the particular device. That's what I did for the 20k$ units from HK, and R&S told me they can't get upgraded to 3G as the "PC" inside was too lame
<wpwrak> and the warranty certificate :)
<wpwrak> ah well. maybe get a few USRPs and hack a CMU200 equivalent yourself :)
<DocScrutinizer> woohoo, your bitbanged CVBS? ( commit^^^)
<wpwrak> it's vga. don't you read the list ?
<DocScrutinizer> not really
<larsc> wpwrak: btw, you should really make that a kernel driver
<DocScrutinizer> too many lists, too much noise, no proper filters (got no secretary ;-D)
<DocScrutinizer> of course VGA, dunno why I slipped to CVBS
<DocScrutinizer> well, probably creating CVBS from that output would simplify a lot of things - half pixelclock
<wpwrak> larsc: i thought you'd say that ;-)
<DocScrutinizer> hehe
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: well, here are the pictures: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/
<DocScrutinizer> seen them I think
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: for a description of what exactly they show, you have to read the list ;)
<larsc> wpwrak: btw. you can do pretty nasty stuff with the dma.
<larsc> for example you can use dma to start a dma transfer
<larsc> in your case a timer triggered dma transfer which starts the mmc dma might get you improved precision
<wpwrak> i'm not sure i can use a timer to start dma in this case. that would mean making the timer the dma "source". but then i'd lose the flow control of the mmc controller.
<larsc> no
<larsc> you use two dma channels
<larsc> one for the timer
<larsc> one for dma
<DocScrutinizer> wow, how hackerish
<wpwrak> so how would one channel start the other ?
<DocScrutinizer> set dma ctrl regs via dma
<larsc> the timer based dma just writes to dma control registers to start the mmc dma
<wpwrak> oh ;-)
<larsc> in theory you could put all your register access in one big dma chain and keep it running without having to use the cpu
<DocScrutinizer> larsc: I feel familiar with your thinking, and I like it :-D
<DocScrutinizer> that's exactly what the "...and synergy" attribute in my "title" refers to
<wpwrak> interesting idea. i wonder what bus access latency does to it, though. but interesting nevertheless :)
<larsc> looking at your code it should be pretty straight forward to turn it into a scatter gather dma 'program'
<larsc> the dma controller can be thought of as a microprocessor which only knows read, write and jump
<larsc> if you combin this with self-modifing code you can do interesting things
<kristianpaul> :o
<wpwrak> larsc: you have a dirty mind ;-) well, the first step would be to find out how badly dma latency is. that may be a problem. with the mmc controller, i give the dma a lot of time to move the initial data into the fifo, and it seems that it still sometimes just barely manages
<wpwrak> larsc: the cpu is easier to handle once all my code is in the cache
<wpwrak> larsc: i'm also not sure if all kinds of dma transfers can write to internal registers. the manual explicitly says that some transfers are with external memory, so that could mean that you couldn't use them with registers. of course, the manual often misleads, so ...
<larsc> hm
<DocScrutinizer> coffee - FINALLY :-)))
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: all these years of research in the mad scientist's alchemy lab finally paying off ? ;-)
<DocScrutinizer> nah, just managed to move my lazy ass to the shop the get milk, alas second grade quality ESL shit only
<DocScrutinizer> the "expect shit, loser" errr extended shelf life cooked-to-death milk
<wpwrak> buy a cow then ;-)
<larsc> had fresh milk each day for the last week
<wpwrak> went to a farm ? :)
<larsc> stayed with my family which has a farm
<kristianpaul> nice :-)
<fossrox_> cool :)
<kristianpaul> my grandma also bringme coe milk from time to time :-)
<kristianpaul> i need to learn hwo to do cheese btw..
<kristianpaul> may be larsc already know? :)
<larsc> well in theory
<larsc> but i doubt it would taste well if applied to practice
<wpwrak> exercise some different hacking kills :)
<DocScrutinizer> first kill a cow and get the rennin
<DocScrutinizer> killing cows, that's truly new hacker skills ;-D
<kristianpaul> strongly disagree
<larsc> fortunately for the cows i don't eat any meat
<DocScrutinizer> well, hope you also don't wear anything made of leather?
<DocScrutinizer> just plastic soles made of oil which basically is mio-year old dead fish ;-P
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: do you eat your clothes often ? :)
<DocScrutinizer> only occasionally :-D
<DocScrutinizer> some milk brands taste like made of old clothes
<DocScrutinizer> dunno what this stuff really is made from
<wpwrak> ground cow bones and sea water ?
<DocScrutinizer> prolly
<DocScrutinizer> any of you know where on this world this phoneme transcription is used: RESUME(3)   R EH Z AH M EY
<DocScrutinizer> pidgin?
<rjeffries> ristianpaul makine soft cheese is so easy. basically heat the milk to a certain temp, then stir in lemon juice. it will curdle (get lumpy) and then you strain through strainer of "cheesecloth" add salt. it is delightful
<DocScrutinizer> hmmm
<kristianpaul> hive five larsc
<rjeffries> wolfspra1l have been reading your comments suggetsing wifi is not important. not sure why you have that opinion
<rjeffries> as to wifi being too hard, virtually every current generation smartphone supportw wifi, and does so rather well.
<roh> re
<rjeffries> ATben/ATusb are great stuff, but do not provide ubiquitous connectivity. thus they are not a single-ended solution, y
<rjeffries> but Iagree that ship has sailed, that train left the station. if next-ben does not offer a reasonably priced wifi connectivity option (can be plug in, via USB) then you miss any chance at a large enough market opportunity to be relevant
<DocScrutinizer> rjeffries: regarding this point I'm quite on same page
<DocScrutinizer> on topic of USB-plugin: I considered quite some time to get me the TI zoom-II, even to retrofit 3G mdule myself when they declared it pre-birth EOL due to RoHS, and I stopped tinking about that immediately when I had to learn the SD card protrudes from the case some 5..10mm
<DocScrutinizer> so USB plugin for WLAN is fine only when the USB receptacle is in a bay so nothing can break when stashing the device in your pocket
<DocScrutinizer> or you go the way I planned for gta04: have two latch holes and fixing threads left and right of USB receptacle, so you can durably *mount* and extender designed to fit to original case
<rjeffries> DocScrutinizer although full size USB connector is bulky for a small device, to my knowledge none of the interesting add-ons such as wifi are offered with the micro USB or MiniUSB connector.
<DocScrutinizer> sure not, as micro/mini-USB not even today is meant for a host with full capabilities. Best you can get is micro-AB-F which is supposed to support OTG and so wouldn't supply enough power per se for a wkan dongle
<rjeffries> since sharism does not own tooling for current Ben case, to my mind a next gen Ben can and should use a new physical design for enclosure.
<rjeffries> my "dream" next gen dev board (as precusror to something packaged in a slick fashion, would have full size USB.
<DocScrutinizer> muhaha now I know here in Germany we also got *brillint* engineers. Our railway refurbished an old bridge, now that they wanted to reopen it they noticed they can only use trains without passengers as they forgot those passengers weight when doing the official paperwork so the bridge isn't certified for it.
<DocScrutinizer> a few days later they noticed they can't use the bridge at all, as they used the weight of an empty waggon for cert, but forgot about the engine
<DocScrutinizer> damn I wish they gave me 1% of what this BS will cost them, to check their planning and calculations
<Jay7> DocScrutinizer: :)))
<lekernel> DocScrutinizer: haha, the Deutsche Bahn are champions anyway. their train reservation and pricing systems is a joke, too. and there was this mess 2 years ago in Berlin with the s-bahn wheels using crappy steel which began to get cracks in them
<lekernel> now I have learned and always take the car in Germany
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (usb) i agree with full size for a host port. that's what you need in the end anyway, so anything different just means that you have to carry a cable
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: (bridge) nice ;-) i suppose they could still push the wagons without engine, as they do or used to do when composing trains, no ? or maybe just detach the machine and get a few horses ;-)