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<jason25262>
Theres not a lot of power going to come off of those little transmitters is there?
<jason25262>
It is fair to expect a 500ft deadzone as a restraining order.
<jason25262>
To just deadzone the fm spectrum.
<jason25262>
raccoon_: gamma tango
<jason25262>
cancel out the fm spectrum for 500 ft
<jason25262>
steed
<jason25262>
Correct the elders in a kind way.
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<jonwil>
The more I look at these mozilla plugin bits, the more I think trying to make them work on modern Gecko is like that scene in Apollo 13 where they go "you gotta make THIS fit into the hole for THIS using nothing but that" only harder
<jonwil>
I suspect xpcom has changed at a low enough level that they simply aren't ABI compatible
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<MonkeyofDoom>
xpcom really is fucked up
<jonwil>
Actually its not that bad
<jonwil>
Its just the decision by the Mozilla team at some point in the dev cycle between Gecko 2.9.2 and modern-Gecko to abandon all pretense towards backwards compatibility
<MonkeyofDoom>
Gecko has never really been intended for embeddability afaik
<jonwil>
it used to be but then everything became about "how fast can we get new Firefox versions out with yet more crap people dont like"
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<bencoh>
:[
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<DocScrutinizer05>
jason25262: you've been warned several times to not spread nonsense here
<Wizzup>
jonwil: yes, it's madness and you really have to wonder how hard you need that specific flash version ;-)
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<jonwil>
Flash isn't the problem, its Mapa that is the biggest problem
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<jason25262>
JoHnY
<JoHnY>
hm?
<jason25262>
Where is this winking virus coming from?
<DocScrutinizer05>
jason25262: please stop highlighting people for nothing and posting weird meaningless off-topic stuff. Absolutely last warning!
<jason25262>
Did you DocScrutinizer05 used to be Mquin?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<jason25262>
Have the Socs been ordered?
<jason25262>
Even a pre-order?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
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<DocScrutinizer05>
we have a 100EUR per donor, why should we spend a 40 of them for preordering a SoC that evidently is neither hard to source nor at risk of going EOL
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<jason25262>
DocScrutinizer05: Why, you ask?
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<jason25262>
Rules of aquisition.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, that's been a rethorical question, but yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry what?
<DocScrutinizer05>
please share a pointer to such "rules of acquisition", also share a link to methods to "pre-order" a DM3730, in a sense of "we'll need 500 in 6 months, so please here is our *non-binding* order already"
<DocScrutinizer05>
we're not amsung, who can do this, for a volume of 2 million chips
<DocScrutinizer05>
Samsung*
<bencoh>
500 ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: and what when we need more in the end?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, I'm wasting my time here instead of doing real work
<bencoh>
oh well, 346 donations received so far ... yeah, maybe then :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
374 plus maybe half a dozen since last calculation
<bencoh>
neat
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, alas dos1 is quite busy still it seems
<DocScrutinizer05>
the rest of the team are no web wizards
<DocScrutinizer05>
omg, brownout galore in Buenos Aires
<DocScrutinizer05>
poor werner
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<jason25262>
modulous, is that the correct spelling?
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: you're OK?
<wpwrak>
no, not really. seems that one of my graphics cards may be dying
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-(
<jason25262>
seems?
<jason25262>
unreal?
<DocScrutinizer05>
~dict seem
<infobot>
Dictionary 'seem' (2 of 7): appear to exist; "There seems no reason to go ahead with the project now" ;; seem to be true, probable, or apparent; "It seems that he is very gifted"; "It appears that the weather in California is very bad" .
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<jason25262>
There you go DocScrutinizer05 you are learning.
<DocScrutinizer05>
hih?
<DocScrutinizer05>
jason25262: I'd prefer when you simply shut up or leave this channel
<jason25262>
That is a problem.
<jason25262>
You never know.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I invoked ~dict so *you* may learn the meaning of "seems"
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I',m absolutely fed up with this trolling now
<jason25262>
I displayed the implication before the invocation.
<DocScrutinizer05>
the last two posts are percieved as a threat even
<jason25262>
Threat to errant_ego?
<DocScrutinizer05>
[general notice] please make sure you registered and authenticated to nickserv. This channel may go +r soonish
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<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry to everybody for the inconvenience it might cause, but fighting trolling and keeping channel temperature and Signal to Noise ratio high is sometimes a tedious task that can cause some trouble in itself
<DocScrutinizer05>
keeping chan temp low of course, and S/N high
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: wb!
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<ravelo>
hooray just bought a used n900
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<ravelo>
slowly i'm approaching
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm very happy about each Neo900 prospect who got his own case. Sourcing the "mech" parts gets harder and harder
<ravelo>
imho most will have a used n900 i think
<ravelo>
no need to source a lot of parts
<DocScrutinizer05>
we urgently need to start a qualified poll on that
<ravelo>
yep
<ravelo>
good idea
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I *plan* to have a webshop-alike feature on neo900.org for all donors, since 4 months, to do exactly this. Alas it's not that simple to find somebody who will implement the webshop
<DocScrutinizer05>
the idea is to actually start a regular sale of the needed "mech" parts, so we can finance the sourcing of those parts
<ravelo>
ok, you want to "sell" the needed parts and can then order those that are needed
<DocScrutinizer05>
later on when you order the board, the service to mount it into your "mech" comes for economic fee
<ravelo>
k
<ravelo>
i just bought the used n900 for ~100 EUR, shipping included
<ravelo>
just fyi
<bencoh>
DocScrutinizer05: do we know how much this will cost (roughly) ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes. The idea is that nnn people order and pay a mech parts set (slider, LCD, digitizer, case, antennas...) and choose if they want to have shipped it to them immediately after we sourced all the parts, or even in piecemeal part by part, or they want the mech parts stay at Neo900 UG assembling facility so later on a NeoN board can get mounted into those
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: it's still pretty hard to get proper quotes, since it's already hard to source the parts at all. For example a AV jack costs between 0.70€ and 8.90€. A display between - say - 30€ and 99€
<bencoh>
uh
<bencoh>
I see
<DocScrutinizer05>
a slider mech incl flex cable between 5€ and 60€
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think we should be able to get the parts (remember, new parts, with "warranty". Not used ones) for less than 150€
<DocScrutinizer05>
You can see I have no economic interest in selling mech parts
<ravelo>
DocScrutinizer05: let's assume 1/3rd of potential buyers want to invest XXX EUR in new hardware and most of them want you to assemble it, the rest just wants to upgrade their n900 -> might be simplest way to keep your current system of just doing that by mail and donating
<DocScrutinizer05>
so I'm saying >>I'm very happy about each Neo900 prospect who got his own case.<<
<ravelo>
ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, that's most messy and worst case possibility
<ravelo>
maybe you require mail with correct and complete data first (Name, Adress, etc), then you provide data where and how to donate -> to avoid missing information
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd much more prefer to have a webpage each of our donors can log in with a password we send to him per mail (or whatever), and there you can watch your account balance (donations, "preorders") and select what build options you want (bare NeoN board, or case. LTE or UMTS, which variant, preferred keymat layout...) and also do a proper usual order for the mech parts
<ravelo>
ah, right there are more options....
<ravelo>
forgot that
<PeperPots_>
DocScrutinizer this is just thinking out loud but i don't think a thermometer or a humidistat is a good idea to keep on the base unit. Unlike a barometer that can have a sensitivity range to aid in helping gps. im curious because of device movement if it would be far more beneficial to leave any sensor that doesn't off unit in something like a storm tag
<DocScrutinizer05>
but yeah, when my current efforts to finally find somebody who's implementing the webshop are still not yielding results till end of week, I have to start thinking about that email order option
<ravelo>
back in the days i implemented a very simple cms
<ravelo>
there are guys who can set up such cms in very short time
<ravelo>
doesn't nesserily need to be integrated in neo900.org
<DocScrutinizer05>
PeperPots_: we don't have humidity-meter, and we're aware of massive limitations of thermometer
<ravelo>
is neo900.org individual design or standard cms?
<DocScrutinizer05>
individual
<ravelo>
k
<PeperPots_>
DocScrutinizer reason i bring it up is because if space can be saved then it might be worth further investigation
<DocScrutinizer05>
PeperPots_: what sensor chips would you remove?
<PeperPots_>
DocScrutinizer if space can be saved anything doesn't pull double duty, so thats the thermometer basically
<DocScrutinizer05>
the thermometer comes with barometer
<PeperPots_>
figured that.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't think there are any barometer chips that don't have thermometer as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
and if there were, they wouldn't be smaller, cheaper, or less power consuming
<PeperPots_>
DocScrutinizer here is another crazy idea. I wonder if the IRDA sensor could be tied into the stereo line in jack and could be used for dual purpose rx/tx data as well as *spdif*
<PeperPots_>
:)
<PeperPots_>
Maybe even optical audio too
<DocScrutinizer05>
I pondered using a compined 3.5mm electrical and IR SPDIFF jack, but that's not feasible on Neo900 since we have to use the original Nokia jack
<wpwrak>
don't forget using it as a laser cutter and as interstellar emergency beacon, in case you get stranded during travel :)
<bencoh>
why ? backward compat ?
<PeperPots_>
benc.. huh ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
however we already have planned to feed IR sensor to audio line-in as well, for a number of usecases. And you can feed anything you want (basically) to the IR LED
<DocScrutinizer05>
combined*
<PeperPots_>
The ir will be both rx and tx right ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
RX of poor sensitivity though
<DocScrutinizer05>
*very* poor sensitivity
<PeperPots_>
why so?
<DocScrutinizer05>
should suffice for IrDA SIR over a distance of 5..10cm
<DocScrutinizer05>
because of components needed to build more sensitive RX
<DocScrutinizer05>
too bulky and too expensive
<PeperPots_>
DocScrutinizer you know about the HIPPA requirement that all insurence offices now require IRDA for data transfer right ?
<PeperPots_>
HIPAA*
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<DocScrutinizer05>
please explain, I don't know what this is about
<PeperPots_>
yea starting december 1st all health insurance carrier offices can't use wifi anymore
<PeperPots_>
only Eirda will be allowed
<kerio>
hahaha what
<DocScrutinizer05>
allowed for doing what?
<kerio>
data transfer, i assume
<PeperPots_>
keri.. to many data breaches over wifi. and with things like reaper can't say i blame them
<kerio>
PeperPots_: wpa2 is literally invulnerable
<PeperPots_>
reaver*
<pigeons>
lol
<PeperPots_>
kerio: still vulnerable to the rainbow attack
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, I'm sorry but Neo900 is not capable to do WLAN-.alike IrDA
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: hipaa regulates how you're allowed to handle medical data in the US
<DocScrutinizer05>
aaah
<kerio>
PeperPots_: because the ESSID is used as a salt in the PBKDF, rainbow tables are only ever useful for common ESSIDs
<DocScrutinizer05>
depends on size of table ;-P
<PeperPots_>
kerio: depends on the size of the table
<DocScrutinizer05>
with a table size 2^256 or something, you're probably just fine X-P
<PeperPots_>
lol
<kerio>
PeperPots_: you need a new table for each new essid
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: nope, you can merge them
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<kerio>
u wot m8
<PeperPots_>
kerio: with a decent beowolf cluster i can crack a new essid with a aes salted hash in under 24 hours
<PeperPots_>
in many cases wpa is less secure than wep
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe, I suddenly think back to my idea about what to do with those 4000 GTA02 ;-)
<PeperPots_>
seeing all i need is a valid handshake
<kerio>
and 24 hours of processing of a supercomputer
<kerio>
ez
<kerio>
what about wpa2 enterprise or whatever
<PeperPots_>
kerio: no need for a super computer just run it through a cude cluster
<kerio>
the one with private keys
<PeperPots_>
cuda*
<PeperPots_>
enterprise is even less secure i can use MALCOM2014 on that
<DocScrutinizer05>
afk o/
<PeperPots_>
the only real way to secure a WPA2 network is with multiple radius servers
<PeperPots_>
and simultaneous key input from two people
<PeperPots_>
basically the same thing they do on nuclear submarines
<DocScrutinizer05>
hey, invite-only WLAN. Quick, visit your patent lawyer ;-D
<bencoh>
:D
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw BT already has this, right?
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: isn't that wps? :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: not exactly, but almost
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's WPS plus BT-alike "PIN" on top
<kerio>
WPS has a pin system already
<kerio>
that's how you can exploit it :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
it does?
<kerio>
either button or pin
<kerio>
and the pin is 8 digits but one is a checksun
<kerio>
checksum
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, because that stupid pin is all it relies on
<kerio>
and you can figure out if the first 4 digits are correct
<DocScrutinizer05>
I never heard of a WPS that needs entry of a identical PIN to both ends, on each authentication
<DocScrutinizer05>
WPS doesn't even display when a client authenticates. All it may need is pressing a button on AP
<DocScrutinizer05>
(sorry, I might have poor info on that, since I never ever used it)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
o/ again
<JoHnY>
how's it going with the project so far? I haven't paid attention for quite some time and I don't see much updates on the website. Also the donation amount was last updated in September...
<JoHnY>
yeah but that was still more than a month ago :-)
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<PeperPots_>
DocScrutinizer last question, will FM radio also be rx/tx ?
<JoHnY>
I'm just asking because final devices were originally expected to be done around this time if I remember correctly. So I just want to know how does it look like now, if there is any rough expectation about when could it be available (if nothing bad happens on the way)
<DocScrutinizer05>
JoHnY: IIRC in one of our last newsletters we explained that reorganization delayed stuff a roughly 6 months, but we're on pace now again and thus expect the device to be ready in ~7 months from now, unless further hurdles pop up
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<JoHnY>
DocScrutinizer05: cool, thanks, I was just curious if nothing changed since then
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-12 Wed 15:58:03] <DocScrutinizer05> tentatively add to Neo900 feature list: "precise metering of RF transmitted power (for those with RF-allergy) aka 'monitor and ensure SAR'" and "detection of other RF sources in vicinity, theoretical frequency range 50MHz to 3500MHz (sensitivity not linear across complete range)"
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-12 Wed 15:59:07] <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ is a synergetic effect we harvest from our already projected tight monitoring of modem, so basically no added cost for both features
<DocScrutinizer05>
the ultimate source for current state of development
<DocScrutinizer05>
particularly the html version
<Humpelstilzchen>
uuh interactive
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's noting more detailled and up-to-date available publicly about sttae of project (except my rants in here ;-D )
<DocScrutinizer05>
state*
<DocScrutinizer05>
if we had a web presence management as agile as e.g. google's, we would place that html block diagram on frontpage for next 7 days
<DocScrutinizer05>
alas we're way to busy with other stuff, not at least producing actual schematics and hardware, so we have little time and expertise in managing the website
<DocScrutinizer05>
too* busy
<DocScrutinizer05>
and "not at last" of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, in a hurry. So o/ - bbl
<DocScrutinizer05>
enjoy the interactive html diagram, I think it's really great
<PeperPots_>
I was trying to convince the makers of Dash early on to include support for ANT/ANT+ since it has node-node-node-node support but after speaking with a ant+ engineer he said all iphone prior to the iphone 5 require a dongle. But i heard that bluetooth 4.1 will have n-n-n-n support so i hope at some point it will be a simple firmware update
<DocScrutinizer05>
please see WLAN module datasheet, iirc we alread _have_ ANT
<PeperPots_>
good to know then
<PeperPots_>
For those wonder wth n-n is in lamens terms: "Mix multiple displays with multiple sensors all at the same time! For example, an enabled bike computer can read data from a power meter, speed/cadence sensor and heart rate sensor at the same time. Or have multiple displays read the same sensors at once. For example, both your watch and mobile app can read
<PeperPots_>
data from your sensors at the same time, allowing you to conveniently view live feedback on your watch while you work out, and track and analyze your workout with your app later. "
<DocScrutinizer05>
2.2.4. ANT Features
<DocScrutinizer05>
Fully compliant with all ANT Protocols:
<Nokiabot>
tentatively add to Neo900 feature list: "precise metering of RF transmitted power (for those with RF-allergy) aka 'monitor and ensure SAR'" and "detection of other RF sources in vicinity, theoretical frequency range 50MHz to 3500MHz (sensitivity not linear across complete range)"
<Nokiabot>
can you giveme a link that explains that
<Nokiabot>
God promise i searched:p
<Nokiabot>
Docscrutinizer05^
<DocScrutinizer05>
Nokiabot: nope, no such link exists
<PeperPots_>
Nokiabot: in lamens terms the ability to switch from one wireless access point to another as fast as possible
<PeperPots_>
in some cases without breaking a VoIP connection
<PeperPots_>
(phone call)
<Nokiabot>
What ? Like cellular roaming but in wilan?
<PeperPots_>
you could say that i suppose
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<PeperPots_>
problem is many devices have support for 802.11r but not 802.11k. Its like having the fast horse without the cart
<Nokiabot>
Sounds good btw whats that monitering and the frequencies in ) tentatively add to Neo900 feature list: "precise metering of RF transmitted power (for those with RF-allergy) aka 'monitor and ensure SAR'" and "detection of other RF sources in vicinity, theoretical frequency range 50MHz to 3500MHz (sensitivity not linear across complete range)"
<PeperPots_>
huh?
<PeperPots_>
Sorry my brain isn't firing on all capacitors this morning. I had a rough night. Don't mean to get all foggy on you but i lost you.
<Nokiabot>
Well i asked about the avove quote : )
<PeperPots_>
you know what i could never figure out is why chips need to be limited to a specific frequency range at the hardware level
<Nokiabot>
I mean what is this _--tentatively add to Neo900 feature list: "precise metering of RF transmitted power (for those with RF-allergy) aka 'monitor and ensure SAR'" and "detection of other RF sources in vicinity, theoretical frequency range 50MHz to 3500MHz (sensitivity not linear across complete range)"
<PeperPots_>
wouldn't it be better to have multiple wifi chips from different MFR 's ?
<PeperPots_>
For instance TI's chips don't support APX (or they do) but another MFR might or might not
<Nokiabot>
Mfr=?
<PeperPots_>
EG csr
<PeperPots_>
Manufacturer
<Nokiabot>
Ah
<PeperPots_>
Nokiabot: what i would love to see (and again this is just me thinking out loud) is a secondary sub hardware *mechanism* that could physically bypass broken circuits
<PeperPots_>
so if something breaks you don't completely lose your device
<DocScrutinizer05>
compose everything (PCB traces, chips, display) from nanobots and you're already there
<PeperPots_>
Doc that brings me to the question, yea where are we on that ? why isn't nano IC available to consumers yet ?
<PeperPots_>
IC's*
<DocScrutinizer05>
on the snip of your fingers the whole device dissolves into a cloud of dust, from which a compeltely new shiny different device materializes
<DocScrutinizer05>
don't inahle the dust!
<PeperPots_>
when i find that genie ill let you know :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
with today's technology not even phonebloks looks like a faint feasible possibility
<PeperPots_>
Aria?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure you can build devices with dual hot standby for each and every subsystem, but they will be 10 times as large and 100 times as expensive as the ones you are used to
<Nokiabot>
Haha
<DocScrutinizer05>
aria? that phonebloks successor? a hoax
<PeperPots_>
Ara*
<DocScrutinizer05>
ara is a parrot, or a hoax of IT marketing spin doctors
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are fundamental physical laws that not even Motorola or Google can work around
<Nokiabot>
Haha i saw a phone with dual sim that actually got two bords inside and 2 displays !
<PeperPots_>
Nokiabot: ?
<Nokiabot>
Peperpots_ yes i had to open it to see two complete systems inside !
<Nokiabot>
But single 3000mah bat
<Sicelo_>
Nokia 9x00 was like that .. S40 outside, S80 inside.
<Nokiabot>
The chineese are genius they make your jaw drop
<PeperPots_>
o.O
<Nokiabot>
Lol
<Sicelo_>
9500 for example
<Sicelo_>
of course sans the dual-sim, which no one made in those days
Sicelo_ is now known as Sicelo
<Nokiabot>
Sicelo i am talking around 2009ish
<Sicelo>
9500 predated that by many years
<Sicelo>
in 2009 Symbian S80 was long extinct
<Nokiabot>
Haha but it was not dual sim
<Sicelo>
16:04 < Sicelo_> of course sans the dual-sim, which no one made in those days
<PeperPots_>
Nokiabot: nokia is based in china?
<Nokiabot>
Prolly i got a crap that does 4 sim lying around never used and maybe add a couple adapters then it might go 6 sim or 8 sim lol
<Nokiabot>
~nokiabot
<infobot>
[nokiabot] so damm sexy that doc burns inside out :p
<Nokiabot>
Ah
<Nokiabot>
Peperpots_ ?
<PeperPots_>
i thought nokia was based in finland
<Sicelo>
it is
<Nokiabot>
Sounds like a conversation in transformers :p
<Sicelo>
i was just pointing out that dual-OS phones are much older than it was siggested here
mva_ is now known as mva
<PeperPots_>
why did u say china ? or were u just ramblin?
<Nokiabot>
Me ?
<PeperPots_>
huh?
<Nokiabot>
Huh
<DocScrutinizer05>
~forget nokiabot
<infobot>
i forgot nokiabot, DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05>
~lock nokiabot
<Nokiabot>
Cruel people
<Nokiabot>
Ah jelous :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
warning!
<Nokiabot>
Warming for what ? Humm
<Nokiabot>
Night
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<Nokiabot>
Btw a lil help on /query @peperpots_
<Nokiabot>
Sicelo /query
<Nokiabot>
? Nobody
<Sicelo>
what?
<Nokiabot>
Docsrutinizer05 can i query ?
<Sicelo>
by the way, still using jmIrc?
<Nokiabot>
Yeah !
<Nokiabot>
Sicelo check query :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
Openbot: identify yourself!
<DocScrutinizer05>
this channel doesn't tolerate unsolicited bots
Openbot was banned on #neo900 by DocScrutinizer05 [Openbot!*@*]
Openbot was kicked from #neo900 by DocScrutinizer05 [T900: "User terminated!"]
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<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:18:35] [Whois] Openbot is ~Boom@182.66.27.182 (*)
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:19:25] [Whois] FIQ is ~FIQ@prgmr/customer/fiq (Fredrik Ljungdahl)
<Openbot>
What is tha ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry FIQ, used an arbitrary example to demonstarte how chanops discern proper users from bots and trolls
<DocScrutinizer05>
neither Openbot nor "Boom" or "(*)" are suggesting this user should not get banned
<Openbot>
Ah thats the case then
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually it shouts out loud "I'm a scripted bot some kiddie made to annoy IRC"
<DocScrutinizer05>
or actually, those kiddies are smarter than that nowadays ;-)
<Openbot>
Btw you know only sexbot was free ;p
<DocScrutinizer05>
you could as well choose a nick like "kick_me_please"
<Openbot>
Too obsence so i requested this nick
<DocScrutinizer05>
or "I-troll-U-70053R"
<Openbot>
Theres no bot there doc
<Openbot>
Haha i can get trollbot
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, at least authenticate to nickserv then please!
<Openbot>
Has the channel got +r now
<Openbot>
So quik
<DocScrutinizer05>
I won't make exception to general freenode policies for you. General policy is: bots are not allowed
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless nvited by chanowner or op
<Openbot>
I am openbot and i am not a bot
<DocScrutinizer05>
your problem, next foobar*bot nick you use will get banned again
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless you disclose proper info that makes me think it's you
<Openbot>
Dont worry i wont trouble you with that cutiepie
<DocScrutinizer05>
you already do
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wasted 15 minutes on this nonsense already
<Openbot>
Proper info like theres a tatoo in your ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
warning!
<Openbot>
Night
<Openbot>
Btw i noticed a similar tone to someone trolling on this channel maybe
<Openbot>
And yes my logs look awful so my comms slowly improving
<Openbot>
Thanx for tolerance
<DocScrutinizer05>
yw
<DocScrutinizer05>
((proper info)) like real name (not "*"), or authentication to nickserv, or at very least a hostname that's not as worryng as "Boom"
<Openbot>
Boom is my og nick mister :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
again, general freenode policy is "no bots allowed that are not clearly linked to a responsible real living user account AND are approved by channel authorities"
<DocScrutinizer05>
Openbot: hardly!
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:40:53] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on boom (account boom):
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:40:54] [Notice] -NickServ- Last addr : ~boom@unaffiliated/boom
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:40:54] [Notice] -NickServ- Last seen : Jan 27 05:17:50 2014 (41 weeks, 3 days, 14:23:03 ago)
<Openbot>
Humm my nick is real people call me that :(
<DocScrutinizer05>
you seem to have quite an affinity to nicknames that bring you trouble, eh? ;-D
<Openbot>
I donn know
<Openbot>
Lol
<Openbot>
Well the problem was i didnt knew that the credetienls would be used i thought they would be asked later ;
<Openbot>
I put my real name later but that didnt work :(
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's a nickserv account and there's a nickname you can choose to your liking any time you want, unless the chosen nick is already assigned to somebody else
<DocScrutinizer05>
the real name "(*)" is in your client
<DocScrutinizer05>
check your client's config
<DocScrutinizer05>
same for hostname
<DocScrutinizer05>
="Boom"
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:48:29] [Whois] DocScrutinizer05 is ~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg (joerg)
<Openbot>
Ah so i just need a newname
<DocScrutinizer05>
satrun is actually the name of the machine I'm on
<DocScrutinizer05>
but actually it's called "username" in most clients
<Openbot>
What kinda machine is that ? Paddy thresher
<DocScrutinizer05>
a PC
<DocScrutinizer05>
[Whois] DocScrutinizer51 is ~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg (joerg reisenweber)
<Openbot>
Ok night sort this mess later
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 19:50:38] [Whois] DocScrutinizer51 is logged in as jOERG_rw.
<DocScrutinizer05>
/msg nickserv info joerg_rw
<DocScrutinizer05>
/whois DocScrutinizer05
<Openbot>
Humm i been a engineer that did suit me mine woud be like timbert~loosers@weak in maths lol
<DocScrutinizer05>
Hint: [Notice] -NickServ- weak_in_math is not registered.
<DocScrutinizer05>
so register weak_in_math user account with nickserv.
<DocScrutinizer05>
then do /nick timbert; and do /msg nickserv id weak_in_math <PASSWORD>; /msg nickserv group
<DocScrutinizer05>
configure your client for "username=loosers" if that's what you really want (note that's a typo, it's written "losers" by everybody except themselves ;-D )
<DocScrutinizer05>
/join #freenode, ask staff for an unaffiliated cloak
<DocScrutinizer05>
et voila´: timbert~loosers@unafilliated/weak_in_maths
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<Openbot>
Does it work ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-11-13 Thu 20:08:49] --> Openbot (~Panda@182.66.19.90) has joined this channel.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, generally a authentication to a registered nickserv account will protect you from any misconceptions regarding your robot nature, most of the time
* Openbot
says Yo identified to nickserv ! learnt a lotta irc today
<jonwil>
anyhow, if we need to bump GCC, lets bump GCC
<freemangordon>
jonwil: well, I still think it is better to upload .a on gitorious
<jonwil>
I dont
<freemangordon>
and to put a check in the source file for the gcc version
<jonwil>
I see no reason not to say to the handful of people compiling pulseaudio-noika at this point" you need to use newer GCC"
<freemangordon>
the resultin .so won;t be ABI compatible
<freemangordon>
with stock fremantle
<Pali>
you can move code parts which use that NEON instruction into separate file and compile that one file with correct gcc
<freemangordon>
Pali: that's what I am takning about
<Pali>
and others can be compiled with 4.2 (or whatever) plus linked that binary one
<freemangordon>
*talking
<freemangordon>
yep, exactly
<Pali>
or you can use new gcc only for compiling
<Pali>
and older for linking
<freemangordon>
but jonwil doesn;t like the idea :)
<Pali>
so there will be no dependency on new gcc/std runtime
<freemangordon>
Pali: I know, that's what I am doing :)
<Pali>
ok :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D
<Pali>
I saw that application was compiled with clang (which support c++11) and linked with gcc, so it worked on older runtime...
<freemangordon>
Pali: most of the critical stuff in Nokia PA blobs is armcc compiled
<freemangordon>
(or handcoded, that os why replacement is faster, see the pastebin ^^^)
<freemangordon>
jonwil: BTW, putting those binary blobs on gitorious doesn't prevent one from using whatever compiler she wants, but allows for the stock gcc
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<DocScrutinizer05>
70 users, ohwow
<DocScrutinizer05>
Pali: >>So, thanks for your work. Real emails were not lost.<< some better were, though
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<RzR>
/msg nickserv identify rzr rzr65
<RzR>
lol
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<kerio>
RzR: well played
<kerio>
aww, the password isn't rzr66
<RzR>
this is trap for t3r0r1stz
<RzR>
;)
<bencoh>
I wonder how you're gonna put that gcc mix together and make it fit in a clean packaging rule
<freemangordon>
bencoh: not that hard - put precompiled .a on gitorious, link with that .a
<bencoh>
ewww :]
<bencoh>
(well, still thx for the work, and I'd be glad to see it fit anyway, but ... that's ugly :)
<freemangordon>
bencoh: it is, but what shall I do whe gcc is buggy
<freemangordon>
?
<bencoh>
isnt it preferable to depend on two gcc versions ?
<freemangordon>
don;t get that
<bencoh>
or cant we have both installed (it should be doable with alternatives) ?
<freemangordon>
in SB?
<bencoh>
I mean, Build-depens: gcc-4.2 gcc-4.7
<bencoh>
yeah
<freemangordon>
not sure this is possible in SB
<freemangordon>
BTW this i show it is solved in meego
<freemangordon>
armcc stuff is distributed in .a for (despite the c code is there)
<bencoh>
hmm, are we using libgcc-4.7 in current cssu ?
<freemangordon>
s/for/form
<freemangordon>
no
<freemangordon>
only cssu-thumb uses 4/7/2
<bencoh>
because I just noticed I have gcc-4.7 installed in sb (?!) and can use my packages on a cssu-s
<freemangordon>
weird
<bencoh>
ii gcc 4:4.7.2-1 i386 GNU C compiler
<bencoh>
and I dont see any 4.2
<freemangordon>
no idea where you have that from
<freemangordon>
hmm, i386?
<freemangordon>
you are sure this is in SB?
<bencoh>
meh, wrong shell
<bencoh>
yeah, 4.2 in sb ... my bad
<freemangordon>
dammit, even 4.7.2 is stupid, it issues 6 extra NEON stores, despite the data is already in registers and noone reads that stored data :(
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm damn sure cauldron and SB do not support multiple concurrent gcc versions
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think I recall cauldron already running into trouble on building a new python version, since the target will eventually collide with the tool, or sth like that
<DocScrutinizer05>
prolly even more same consideration applies to building a new gcc in cauldron with old gcc, and having two concurrent gcc is probably something that needs refactoring of 90% of whole cauldron autobuilder
<enyc>
=)
<Oksana>
Supporting bencohs suggestion of Build-depens: gcc-4.2 gcc-4.7. It's just more human-readable. Maybe, it would be possible to compile with gcc-4.7, uninstall gcc-4.7, install gcc-4.2, link with gcc-4.2? Though un-installing build dependencies during building is not easy :-/
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: have a look at cauldron. I've been told it's a nightmare. For sure the autobuilder is (autobuilder > cauldron, aiui)
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway iirc and if nothing changed, freemangordon is maintainer of autobuilder, so ask him
<Oksana>
freemangordon: What is easier, pre-compiling .c into .a manually by gcc-4.7 and then feeding to autobuilder-with-gcc-4.2, or making build instructions for autobuilder to compile .c to .a with gcc-4.7, uninstall gcc-4.7, install gcc-4.2, link .a with gcc-4.2?
<DocScrutinizer05>
In a Nutshell, Extras Cauldron... took an estimated 1 years of effort (COCOMO model)
<Oksana>
Since you are using gcc-4.7... Would it be possible to feed it to autobuilder? So that there would be gcc-4.7, too? [gcc-4.8 is not in existence yet, I guess?]
<Oksana>
freemangordon: Would gcc-4.8 work instead of gcc-4.7? Would it be possible to push gcc-4.8 to autobuilder, for consistency of the steps between versions?
<freemangordon>
Oksana: no idea
<freemangordon>
also, it will be ARM-compiled, so using it to compile Qt(for example) will take ages
<freemangordon>
what we need is SB toolchain
<Oksana>
[Scratchbox toolchain] What is needed besides having gcc-4.[78] in Fremantle SDK free i386 repository?
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<freemangordon>
Oksana: you have to cross-compile, newer gcc is not compiled in SB
<freemangordon>
and is very complicated (at least for me)
<freemangordon>
toolchain build process that is
<Oksana>
And there is no auto-builder to auto-magically cross-compile a toolchain? Right...
<freemangordon>
yep :)
<freemangordon>
at least I am not aware of
<DocScrutinizer05>
as I mentioned above: autobuilding the autobuilder might result in collisions/conflicts
<DocScrutinizer05>
though I guess there must be details about that in scratchbox repo resp cauldron garage project
<DocScrutinizer05>
after all the original authors somehow managed to build and install that stuff
<freemangordon>
I have some kind of "scripts" for building gcc in ubuntu