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<simonv3>
hey all, I’m considering building a quick website that people can post their upcoming apps or things they want to collaborate on for sandstorm, probably built with meteor and using github as a log in. I’m having a hard time keeping track of all the cool tools that are being built, or are being asked to be built. Something like sandstorm.io/vote but kind
<simonv3>
of still active. I’m also thinking more for sandstorm specific apps rather than ported apps.
<simonv3>
still active / usable by people
<zarvox>
may I suggest using Sandstorm for login / kenton:accounts-sandstorm? :)
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<simonv3>
zarvox: heh, it’d be cool if it was a sandstorm app, but I’m not quite sure how to make it generalizable
<simonv3>
maybe it already exists!
<simonv3>
maybe it just needs to be an etherpad or an ethercalc sheet where people list any apps they have and then list their names if they’re interested
<kentonv>
simonv3: We often host one-off apps on Sandstorm, e.g. the app index itself is a Sandstorm app.
<simonv3>
(along the maxim that most web app solutions can be solved with a spreadsheet)
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<kentonv>
simonv3: btw I just saw your email about annotate but AFAICT we never received an spk
<simonv3>
yeah, just saw your reply too
<simonv3>
I totally thought I had published it
<simonv3>
let me test and try again
<simonv3>
sorry :/
<kentonv>
np, I'm excited to get it published!
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<simonv3>
really shoulda checked in earlier, I was just completely operating on the fact that I had already ran the publish command
<simonv3>
andrew’s response to my post about a pastebin style app is a case-and-point to my earlier chat message
<kentonv>
personally I'd like to see a like 10-line pastebin app that's one-grain-per-paste. :)
<zarvox>
I'd like to see a pastebin app that I can integrate with the command-line pastebinit tool
<zarvox>
I guess that's harder to make fine-grained until grains can spawn other grains
<simonv3>
kentonv: that’s pretty much what I had in mind too
<simonv3>
basically just a pretty text input that you can define what kind of programming language it is
<simonv3>
oh, I think I know what went wrong when I thought I had published the app - it looks like it rejected my short description because it was greater than 25 characters ("Image and Wireframe Annotation")
<kentonv>
ah, yeah, it'll probably overflow the space available
<simonv3>
I like that the date is december 31st, 1969
<kentonv>
heh, that's supposed to be "date first published" but it hasn't been published. :)
<kentonv>
simonv3: Needs screenshots. :)
<kentonv>
and maybe a little more description.
<simonv3>
heh, cool
<kentonv>
otherwise looks pretty good
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<simonv3>
kentonv: does the version need to be bumped to update the description and stuff like that?
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<kentonv>
I would recommend bumping it, otherwise the experimental market will not know which one to display until I get around to deleting the old one
<kentonv>
I should probably fix the app index to automatically delete unpublished packages with the same or lower version
<simonv3>
I’ll bump it for now :)
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<simonv3>
kentonv: how long should uploading the package to the index take on a normal internet connection? I’m trying to gauge what might be the bottleneck, it’s been trying to upload for about 20 minutes now
<kentonv>
simonv3: how big is it?
<simonv3>
kentonv: 24.6 mb
<simonv3>
standard meteor app size I guess?
<kentonv>
sounds like something is wrong
<kentonv>
I'd cancel and retry
<kentonv>
we need to add a progress bar
<simonv3>
how well does it handle lost connectivity (eg, if I let my computer fall asleep sometimes the wifi connection drops)
<kentonv>
it's curl doing an HTTP PUT
<kentonv>
I would expect curl to fail out if the connection drops
<kentonv>
but... who knows
<simonv3>
ah
<kentonv>
networking is hard
<simonv3>
true that
<simonv3>
I suspect there’s something going on with my internet connection, I’m going to try again tomorrow
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<mnutt>
another thing onto the powerbox wishlist: an openstreetmaps provider. in the opentracks HN comments somebody calls out google maps' tracking, and the author is kind of ambivalent because every maps provider tracks you
<mnutt>
(request a map via powerbox, use leaflet.js to get tiles)
<frigginglorious>
so if i am trying to package an app that is only using javascript, can i use the tutorial & asheesh php-app-to-package-for-sandstorm setup?
<frigginglorious>
im getting an nginx 403, and i wonder if i should be using a different setup?
<frigginglorious>
oh, i already made sure gzip off; is set in nginx.conf
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: Hey, if you're getting nginx 403, that typically means your app's root directory (".." from the perspective of ".sandstorm/" ) has no index.html nor index.php
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<frigginglorious>
asheesh: well, the php-app-to-package directory, the one i put vagrant-spk up, and the one that contains the “.sandstorm/“ has an index.html
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<asheesh>
Huh, weird frigginglorious
<asheesh>
Unfortunately I need to go to bed. But I can look at this tomorrow.
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<bemasc>
asheesh: Well, it's not exactly obvious how ip.capnp works, but it looks promising.
<bemasc>
For it to be usable, I think supported language runtimes' networking primitives need to Just Work (at least if you've requested the necessary permissions in your config file)
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<simonv3>
kentonv asheesh: just got it submitted now, worked fine on a different connection, I think it was just some connectivity issues
<mrdomino>
asheesh: during my week off, i wanna work on some sandstorm stuff. my default plan is "package openproject" because i think even if resonate.is doesn't use it, it might be helpful for other orgs like them. if you can think of anything else i should rather work on, lmk
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<BigShip>
So, my boot drive is a small SSD but I have TBs of storage on other drives. Is there a way to make that storage available to sandstorm?
<Tryum>
where is installed your sandstorm instance ? /opt/ ?
<BigShip>
Tryum: yes, under /opt/sandstorm
<Tryum>
then you should make a partition on you big hdd, and mount it to /opt/sandstorm
<BigShip>
Sorry about the delay, internet problems. Is it possible to do something without creating a separate partition for /opt ?
<digitalcircuit>
I specified a different OVERRIDE_SANDSTORM_DEFAULT_DIR when running install.sh, but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to change the installation directory after the fact, or if that's even what you want? It would be nice to separate Sandstorm programs (SSD) from data (HDD)...
<digitalcircuit>
simonv3: looks good here, too, though I'm not an app dev. How would someone indicate they're interested - a button?
<digitalcircuit>
Also noticed that clicking briefly creates the annotate circle and number + 1, then it disappears. Probably not a security bug to increment that number, but mildly amusing nonetheless :)
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<BigShip>
digitalcircuit: I got all the way to 12 before I stopped being entertained by that :)
<digitalcircuit>
BigShip: it.. uh, might be at 101 now...
* digitalcircuit
won't repeat it, was just curious what happened at 3 digits long. Nothing much; it's handled well.
<digitalcircuit>
(~ 1-3 min server reboot for 16.04 kernel upgrades, be right back)
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<BigShip>
digitalcircuit: ooooo. I can't wait till it hits stable so I can upgrade from 14.04. Still on kernel 3.17 :/
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<digitalcircuit>
BigShip: 30 days left, then you can upgrade! Rather than hassle later, I decided to go all out, and use 16.04 alpha on a new server build using BTRFS with experimental RAID56... Needless to say, if Sandstorm breaks, there's a good chance it's not at fault :)
<BigShip>
digitalcircuit: actually, I think BTRFS raid5/6 is "stable". Stable meaning it's actually usable unlike before =P
<BigShip>
digitalcircuit: at least on the newest kernel. I'm in the process of switching my drives to btrfs right now actually. Just don't wanna move to a new kernel yet for stability reasons
<digitalcircuit>
Ah, okay! That's reassuring, though keep backups anyways.
<kentonv>
BTRFS stable???? What's next, GNU/HURD?
<asheesh>
That's basically how I fele.
<asheesh>
+/- typos
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<kentonv>
I want to use a GNU/HURD+BTRFS+Wayland box to play Duke Nukem Forever
<digitalcircuit>
Don't forget Half Life 3...
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<kentonv>
to be fair, I don't think Valve has ever actually claimed to be working on HL3. Do fan theories count as vaporware? :P
<maurer>
kentonv: IIRC Duke Nukem Forever actually released
<maurer>
it was bad, but released
<maurer>
Has HURD stopped memory mapping hard disks yet?
<kentonv>
maurer: yeah I'm aware.
<kentonv>
I think I own a copy but never got around to playing it.
<kentonv>
I guess basically some other company bought the rights to the name and slapped something together, so it's not actually the game that they'd spent 10+ years on.
<kentonv>
very sad.
<maurer>
I didn't play it myself, but I heard that part of the problem was that they tried to go hard on the old aesthetic of the game, and in light of new sensibilities, it actually made even the people who were nostalgic for duke nukem a little uncomfortable
<kentonv>
on the bright side... progress?
<BigShip>
kentonv: woah woah, not actually stable
<BigShip>
kentonv: I meant stable in a relative sense. As you were kind of just bat sh** crazy to use btrfs raid6 up until now
<BigShip>
digitalcircuit: Yeah always backups. I was being really, really bad and had 9TB of non-redundant data with 0 backups.
<BigShip>
digitalcircuit: now I'm running in raid. Backups next, and then the transition to raid6
<BigShip>
*raid1
<BigShip>
... *now I'm running in raid1 | (good god the edits)
<maurer>
BigShip: So, unless you have a really fancy driveset, why not just use mdadm+friends?
<BigShip>
maurer: mdadm?
<kentonv>
the traditional way to do software raid on linux
<kentonv>
(I think)
<maurer>
Yeah, mdadm is the traditional program for controlling raid
<BigShip>
ah, I have a dedicated storage server with like, 8 drives. BTRFS gives me a lot more options with how I store my stuff :)
<maurer>
Are they different size?
<maurer>
*sizes?
<BigShip>
maurer: at the moment yes
<maurer>
Ah, OK, then you might need that
<maurer>
Otherwise I was gonna say, RAID5/RAID6 in software is quite mature for disks of equal size
<BigShip>
yeah, I'm kind of lucky that the upgrade path I intend to take means by the time I switch to btrfs raid6 it should be mature enough to depend on. And you can very easily switch raid types in btrfs which is handy
<BigShip>
asheesh: I brought this up earlier but disconnected before I could get an answer: is it possible to move the sandstorm install location/storage location after install?
<asheesh>
Two answers for you.
<asheesh>
1. Probably "just" sudo mv'ing it will do the trick, but also
<asheesh>
2. What I would do instead is leave it in the same place, but make /opt/sandstorm a symlink to another volume
<asheesh>
cd /volumes/raid1andbackedupgoshilovebackups/ ; sudo mv /opt/sandstorm.hold-on-a-sec sandstorm ; cd /opt ; sudo ln -s /volumes/raid1andbackedupgoshilovebackups/sandstorm sandstorm
<asheesh>
sudo service sandstorm start
<BigShip>
asheesh: okay perfect, if symlinks will work I'll definitely go that route. My boot ssd is only 80GB or so and I have SO much more storage on my other drives.
<asheesh>
Yeah (-:
<BigShip>
gotta take advantage of that davros storage ;)
<asheesh>
Symlinks should work great; if you're ever unsure about symlinks, I secretly like bind mounts even more.
<asheesh>
: D
<asheesh>
cc: mnutt
<BigShip>
asheesh: does that mirror the data?
<kentonv>
fwiw the only reason for the symlink would be to avoid breaking your init scripts and the `sandstorm` and `spk` command symlinks in /usr/local/bin.
<mnutt>
symlinking/remounting the entire sandstorm dir will work fine, but I wouldn't try remounting directories under /opt/sandstorm
<BigShip>
thanks for the info! I'll be back on later, gotta drive places :D
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<asheesh>
kentonv: That, and so that your system is similar to the ones described in the docs!! (Which may or may not be something anyone cares about.)
<digitalcircuit>
Heh, not sure if that's a good thing to learn... Never played it myself, but I'm familiar with the genre of exponential number games that involve automating more and more. Kinda in the vein of setting up continuous integration and with build matrices.
<simonv3>
Yeah, I can’t say I feel enriched
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<digitalcircuit>
Err, meant to say "and *tests with build matrices." Otherwise, agreed.
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<digitalcircuit>
On topic, Annotate seems to require uploading files directly to it. Any thoughts on integrating it with, say, Davros, or is the Picker/Powerbox UI not yet ready?
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<neynah>
digitalcircuit: Not quite ready yet but zarvox or kenton can give you more details. :D
<simonv3>
digitalcircuit: that would be awesome I think
<neynah>
I mean kentonv
<digitalcircuit>
neynah, simonv3: alright! I do understand Sandstorm's under heavy development, with big plans in the near and far future.
<simonv3>
digitalcircuit: a future possible functionality that I’m keeping in mind (and asheesh seems to heavily be in favor of) is annotating PDFs. Though there’s some intricacies in PDF annotation that I haven’t looked into enough
<digitalcircuit>
simonv3: so like Xournal (perhaps less complex - no XInput tablet integration, for example), but in Sandstorm, and collaborative? http://xournal.sourceforge.net/
* digitalcircuit
subscribes to that issue; thanks!
<simonv3>
digitalcircuit: yeah, though I was thinking more using a PDF’s native annotation programming using something like PDF.js
<digitalcircuit>
Hm, that sounds more like what the Evince document viewer on GNOME does. Makes sense, and it'd mean keeping the same format for exporting if desired.
<digitalcircuit>
(At least in Ubuntu 14.04's version; I don't know if Evince axed the annotation functionality in later versions)
<simonv3>
yeah, and the “sticking to pdf” might make it make more sense as a standalone version of annotate. there’s a couple of annotation things like this going on https://github.com/RichardLitt/awesome-annotation