03:38 <pdurbin> I just noticed https://github.com/sandstorm-io/capnproto/blob/master/doc/roadmap.md and now I'm wondering if Sandstorm has a roadmap.

16:01 <jcam> sandstormy folks - I have a few kinda-newbie questions (about what kind of tools can easily be integrated) that I haven't found in the issue queue or in docs, where is the best place to ask those?

16:02 <dwrensha> jcam: here or the sandstorm-dev mailing list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sandstorm-dev

16:03 <jcam> dwrensha: thanks! Lemme start here, then move to email if it seems relevant

16:06 <jcam> I notice most of the sandstorm apps currently in the store are web-frontend gadgets; I'd be very interested in tools like Jitsi Meet (webrtc secure videoconference), Ostel (user management / server for ZRTP / end-to-end VOIP), or SchleuderList (GPG-enabled email list software, with extensive command line config needs). Are there any reasons that these couldn't live in the sandstorm world?

16:09 <ocdtrekkie_> pdurbin I would also like to see a Sandstorm roadmap. The capnp one hasn't been updated in a year though, FWIW

16:20 <pdurbin> ocdtrekkie_: just curious, really

16:35 <dwrensha> jcam: those apps look really interesting, and indeed within the realm of what we'd like to allow on Sandstorm

16:37 <zarvox> ocdtrekkie_: isn't there the Sandstorm 1.0 roadmap that I think we accidentally sent to the mailinglist, then realized "actually, this makes sense to keep public"

16:38 <dwrensha> jcam: it looks like all of those apps depend on the server speaking some protocol other than HTTP

16:38 <zarvox> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sandstorm-dev/1.0$20roadmap/sandstorm-dev/8ONfBwvyLbk/tRs-rtaCMgAJ

16:39 <dwrensha> jcam: our support for such things is limited at the moment, but fixing that is actually a current focus of our efforts

16:40 <zarvox> I'm working on the "picker powerbox", which lets you connect apps to each other, as well as to privileged capabilities like "listen on a TCP/UDP port"

16:41 <zarvox> that last bit is what we need to be able to run those apps in Sandstorm

16:41 <dwrensha> jcam: this blog post is relevant: https://blog.sandstorm.io/news/2015-06-10-network-access-permission-android-vs-sandstorm.html

16:45 <dwrensha> jcam: and more here https://docs.sandstorm.io/en/latest/using/security-practices/#true-confinement

16:54 <jcam> dwrensha: thanks! I work with an NGO that supports organizations around the world improving their digital security, and more secure, easily self-hostable systems would really be a game changer

16:55 <jcam> dwrensha: I got pointed towards Sandstorm by Jack S. and have just started playing around with it, but I'd love to see if we could fund/support/etc. additional tools being added

17:00 <pdurbin> zarvox: ah, you're saying their is a roadmap: Sandstorm 1.0 Roadmap · Wekan · Sandstorm - https://oasis.sandstorm.io/shared/iacQuutPODD2pPXLGtkn90DtPA2judrMZcLY7TJCbTM via 1.0 roadmap (wekan) - Google Groups - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sandstorm-dev/8ONfBwvyLbk/tRs-rtaCMgAJ . very cool

18:38 <ocdtrekkie_> I entirely forgot about that zarvox. Thanks!

19:58 <asheesh> Wow, it's seriously raining in SF.

20:01 <pod> finally!

20:38 <ocdtrekkie_> Hey is anyone present at Sandstorm this week able to push app updates?

20:39 <asheesh> Kenton will be back tomorrow at the office, and probably will be happy to do that.

20:39 <asheesh> er, rather

20:39 <ocdtrekkie_> Davros 0.14.1 has a kinda experience-breaking bug, so if someone could accept 0.14.2 it'd be good.

20:39 <ocdtrekkie_> K

20:39 <asheesh> Kenton will still be on vacation, but he lives at a house that has the same address as the office, and so presumably will have access to his computer.

20:39 <asheesh> And would probably be very happy to do that.

20:40 <asheesh> Curious what's the bug. Also curious why we want to be in the business of stopping app authors from publishing updates to apps that are already approved.

20:40 <asheesh> Honestly what I should do is write code that makes it so an approval is once per app, not once per update.

20:51 <ocdtrekkie_> asheesh: UI doesn't refresh to show changes in 0.14.1

20:51 <asheesh> nod & frown

20:51 <ocdtrekkie_> See mnutt/davros #19 and #21

20:54 <asheesh> Now I've read 'em.

20:55 <ocdtrekkie_> I am actually not sure 0.14.2 fixes it for me.

21:01 <ocdtrekkie_> I do not think it does. I updated #19.

21:02 <ocdtrekkie_> It would probably be good to auto-approve app updates. I am not sure if maybe kenton wants to ensure there is no horribly breaking 'we lost your data' app updates in apps likely to be popular with people trying Sandstorm or something.

21:03 <ocdtrekkie_> If Davros or Wekan was to release a really, really broken update, I think it'd have potential to make people trying Sandstorm very sad.

21:22 <shomon> would be cool to have inbuilt backups or exports in all grains.. :)

21:27 <asheesh> shomon: /win 31

21:27 <asheesh> ...

21:28 <asheesh> Anwyay see https://docs.sandstorm.io/en/latest/administering/backups/ you can back up a grain if you own it by exporting it to a ZIP file.

21:29 <shomon> oh cool thanks :)

21:34 <asheesh> (-: happy to help shomon

22:00 <asheesh> It is too bad I don't get Cap'n Proto in bash.

22:11 <asheesh> sprin: Your resourcefulness is very impressive.