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<GaryOak_>
I used flay on an old ruby codebase at work, I was so frightened
<zenspider>
hee
<zenspider>
knowing is half the battle?
<zenspider>
ugh. any linux users here that have a sec to test a patch against minitest?
<zenspider>
getting updated and installed and working is such a PITA
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<zenspider>
apeiros_: you on linux?
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<ellisTAA>
do exceptions go inside of methods or outside of methods? or both?
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<zenspider>
you really need to sit down with a book. there's really no two ways about it
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<weaksauce>
CODEACADEMY!
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<weaksauce>
is there anything like yacc for ruby?
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<weaksauce>
actually zenspider your coco/R thing looks like it might be what I am looking for
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<weaksauce>
zenspider do you know of any objective-c parser generators that are usable from ruby?
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<weaksauce>
looks like treetop has a grammar already made for objc i'll try that out
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<agent_white>
weaksauce: Treetop?
<agent_white>
woops, didn't see what you said tehre
<weaksauce>
:)
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<pabloh>
hi, does anyone knows if there's an API to look up for a file at ruby load's path without actually loading the file?
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<agent_white>
pabloh: Just checkout $LOAD_PATH ?
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<pabloh>
agent_white, that's a posibility, going through all the entries, I was wondering if that's already done elsewhere...
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<agent_white>
pabloh: *shrug* :P If you can find what you're looking for in those entries, probably much better to use it instead of tacking another depedency onto your app.
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<weaksauce>
damn. the parser doesn't parse correctly after I fixed all the missing errors. seems that the objc and c definitions are not correct
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<pabloh>
agent_white, well done somewhere else at the ruby/rubygems API, I should have said
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<porfa>
heya guys!
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<porfa>
im runing into some problems, i never used a puts inside a loop, and it keeps repeating my ocurrences, but.. it repeteats the correct number of times tho..
<porfa>
lol.. im riping a suplier catalog.. i could have started with a difrente category i know, haha
<porfa>
(if that’s what you mean by intresting.. ah!)
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<porfa>
how can i have a puts for each loop i do?
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<weaksauce>
pretty sure its the sex4fun part
<weaksauce>
that is "interesting"
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<weaksauce>
porfa you want dat_cat inside the loop instead of cat
<porfa>
oh.. *facepalms*
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<weaksauce>
interesting. textpow hooks into textmate syntax files and parses based on that. though it doesn't do any of the heavy lifting to create the AST for you.
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<ellisTAA>
what are the general criteria for judging if a computer program is written exeptionally well??
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<havenwood>
ellisTAA: similar to the criteria for judging if a novel is written exceptionally well, plus it runs.
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<ellisTAA>
and what are the criteria for judging if a novel is written exceptionallywell
<havenwood>
ellisTAA: nobody knows.
<ellisTAA>
haha
<ellisTAA>
isn’t one of those criteria speed?
<ellisTAA>
readability maybe?
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<havenwood>
ellisTAA: what novel are we talking about? ought it be short or long? use flowery words or be plain? a sad or happy story?
<havenwood>
any of the above could be meager or great novels, but some are and some aren't.
<ellisTAA>
havenwood: these differences exist with software? i’m a noob so i’m sincere
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<samfishe1>
hello. anyone around?
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<havenwood>
samfishe1: always
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<godemperor>
Howdy all
<godemperor>
Hmmm, I wondering if anyone here can lend a hand...
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<godemperor>
I'm currently having some issues with devise, for some reason it is telling me that the reset token, to reset a user's password is invalid
<godemperor>
I'm wondering why this might be, and how to go about troubleshooting it
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<_1_Edwin>
hola
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<godemperor>
no one is here
<godemperor>
irc is dying yo
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<spicymagpie>
it's not, but it's Saturday night (and I suspect that it's still Friday in a few places)
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<havenwood>
godemperor: no luck in the #rubyonrails channel?
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<average>
spicymagpie: saturday morning here
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<average>
godemperor: why don't you hire someone to fix it for you ?
<spicymagpie>
average: where are you?
<average>
people are always like "oh I know, I'm a programmer, I can fix it"
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<average>
why even do that ? just hire everyone and they'll fix it for you. next thing you know, you'll be hiring people to hire people to hire people ot do the actual work
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<average>
and then create the typical hierarchical structure of all large companies and corporations, something that people have been doing since the stoneage apparently
<spicymagpie>
what's the issue?
<average>
spicymagpie: issue with ?
<Gmind>
havenwood, oh, thanks you. I'm pretty new to ruby community , so that's how it work.
<average>
spicymagpie: anyway, I'm on GMT+2
<spicymagpie>
average: with godemperor
<average>
spicymagpie: oh, lol, I don't have any issues with him
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<average>
no beef.. just thinking out loud..
<spicymagpie>
I know. I asked about his issue, why would he hire someone.
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<average>
07:25 < godemperor> Howdy all
<average>
07:25 < godemperor> Hmmm, I wondering if anyone here can lend a hand...
<average>
07:26 < godemperor> I'm currently having some issues with devise, for some reason it is telling me that the reset token, to reset a user's password is invalid
<average>
07:26 < godemperor> I'm wondering why this might be, and how to go about troubleshooting it
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<average>
spicymagpie: ^^
<spicymagpie>
ah, that one (why are you up so early, it's caturday!)
<spicymagpie>
the reset token in devise is sometimes hard to understand.
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<average>
oh me ? well.. I'm looking for some gigs and can't find sh**
<agent_white>
hey folks! Working on writing a irc bot to eval ruby, and I _think_ it's starting to get big enough that I need to move it out of one giant class. Any tips on how I should organize the movement out of this class? https://github.com/jakenotjacob/ooob/blob/master/lib/ooob/bot.rb
<agent_white>
Basically trying to figure out things like... should I maybe make a Connection class for the socket, a Monitor class for parsing what the socket reads... Utility class for giving my bot commands? etc.
<spicymagpie>
agent_white: i'd begin creating a parser class/module. it's part of the business and you need to make sure it's working OK.
<spicymagpie>
then a user manager and finally a connection module to transport everything.
<agent_white>
spicymagpie: Alrighty! So, would the parser also be the one to eval the code? Or another class/module for that?
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<spicymagpie>
agent_white: not sure about it... evaluating code is dangerous, so I think you should make use of ruby_parser to check it before evaluating.
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<agent_white>
spicymagpie: I was gonna say, that part I have settled ;) I had been looking at _why's old code for a sandbox, and some other projects but majority are abandoned (ruby seems to need a good sandbox gem). So instead I'm just tossing it in a docker container :)
<agent_white>
ruby_parser... Ooo I'll take a look at it!
<_2_Janesa2>
No
<agent_white>
?
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<spicymagpie>
aha... i'd go for another module for evaling then.
<spicymagpie>
evaluating*
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<agent_white>
spicymagpie: Alrighty. So maybe the Parser would just sift through lines that are relevant/chooses where to route them, and the Eval module for sanitizing the code to be eval'd and whatnot?
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<spicymagpie>
why not?
<agent_white>
spicymagpie: And thank you! Definitely helped me outta a rut :)
<agent_white>
Good deal!
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<spicymagpie>
hmmm... actually I began thinking
<spicymagpie>
parse -> sanitize -> eval.
<agent_white>
Hm... so the sanitize wouldn't be inside the eval? (just for removing blacklisted constants, etc.)
<spicymagpie>
connection + user
<spicymagpie>
config
<spicymagpie>
and a main class to orchestrate everything.
<spicymagpie>
the sanitizer wouldn't be inside the eval.
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<agent_white>
Ah, separate class entirely?
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<spicymagpie>
yep
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<spicymagpie>
if it's a bot, it should be controlled by eventmachine or something that can fire up events.
<agent_white>
Ah alrighty, and only touched if it's code?
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<weaksauce>
agent_white have a look at isaac bot... it's pretty simple but it does a lot of what you are looking to do.
<weaksauce>
might give you some ideas on how to structure your bot
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<agent_white>
weaksauce: Alrighty! Thank you :D
<average>
maybe just get a sandbox
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<average>
and wipe it out between evaluating code
<average>
between code evaluations
<average>
and all the nasty will hopefuly be gone
<average>
otherwise your machine gets infected.. big deal
<agent_white>
Yeah I've just been kinda trying to find "well structured OOP ruby" examples as a whole... feel it would help me with ideas :)
<agent_white>
average: That's the thing, there's pretty much no de-facto ruby sandbox! _why's freakyfreaky sandbox dealt a lot with tinkering in ruby internals, so that's out... and shikashi was the other prominant one, but far outdated.
<average>
anyway, if some user tries to infect your machine, I think the best idea is to infect it right back
<average>
that'll show it
<average>
it/him/her
<agent_white>
So I figured, maybe make a blacklist like shikashi, then just toss it in a linux container.
<agent_white>
Hahah, it's being run on a VPS I have solely for this project, thankfully. ;)
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<agent_white>
spicymagpie: Would sanitize only be touched if parser finds that there is code to be evaluated?
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<spicymagpie>
yep
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<agent_white>
Ahhh okey doke!
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<average>
the only real way to sandbox things these days is to get a new machine each time you run them
<average>
and that's probably how it's always been .. not necessarily "these days"..
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<average>
but what do I know.. I think security is extremely hard. saying "security is important" is a very stupid and idiotic thing to say though...
<average>
I find it funny how someone can say "oh look, security is so important" when it's so easy to get it wrong or so easy to mess up something small, it's basically enough to miss/mess up on something and you're done
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<average>
anyway, I'd rather not think about this, it's very unproductive
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<weaksauce>
wow. average. security is hard but it's not *that* hard to do for 98% of the cases out there. until you are high value most attacks are going to be drive by scripts.
<average>
weaksauce: you see.. that's funny..
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<average>
weaksauce: the things that target high-value .. are hard to detect
<average>
weaksauce: so how do you know whether they even exist
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<weaksauce>
depends on the attack
<average>
an attack that you might not even know about
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<weaksauce>
I know how hard security is to do 100% correct. realistically they are not going in to the level of sophistication that you think they are.
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<weaksauce>
by definition an attack that you might not even know about is going to be nigh close to impossible to detect.
<average>
exactly
<weaksauce>
there's a level of common sense though.
<average>
so what's the point in doing security at all ... of course you're going to say "but look, we can defend against 99% of things"
<weaksauce>
are you kidding me?
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<average>
and I'm like "ok, you've defended agains 99% , and there's this 1% that you don't even know exists and you might have already been attacked by it and you don't even know"
<weaksauce>
so what?
<weaksauce>
so you got attacked and you don't know about it?
<average>
exactly, you've invested so much time in defending 99% , but it was completely useless
<weaksauce>
that's bullshit. getting to 99% is not that hard
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<average>
and the worst is that you don't even know it's completely useless, because you have no idea how to detect the remaining 1%
<average>
so you don't even know if an attack has taken place or is taking place in this very moment
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<average>
weaksauce: btw, when I say "you", I'm not talking about you in particular, I include myself too, and everyone else to be honest, even people who are extremely good at security
<ellisTAA>
i dont get why i’ve heard that if you printed out some software code it would be as tall as a building … how could something require so much code?
<weaksauce>
ellisTAA why are some building that tall?
<ellisTAA>
no. i don’t get how a program could require that much code?
<weaksauce>
average I know you didn't literally mean me but I still think that security is not "that" hard.
<weaksauce>
ellisTAA I know what you mean.
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<average>
weaksauce: I think it's extremely hard. It's so hard that people making money off of it are only doing so based on marketing principles and nothing more.
<weaksauce>
the answer to my question is the answer to yours. the requirements dictated it.
<weaksauce>
you talking about antivirus? yeah that's basically crap.
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<average>
lol, so if antiviruses are crap, and they're suppose to help you detect things.. haha
<weaksauce>
you talking about hardening servers? it's not as mystical as one would believe.
<average>
how are you going to do any security at all ? :))
<average>
this is funny
<weaksauce>
you shitting me again?
<average>
I shit you not, I'm dead serious
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<average>
I'm actually very serious about it
<weaksauce>
if you think antivirus has anything to do with server security I am not sure we can keep conversing.
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<average>
weaksauce: I did not say that
<average>
weaksauce: I agree that server security is done through other means
<weaksauce>
lol, so if antiviruses are crap, and they're suppose to help you detect things.. haha
<weaksauce>
10:54
<ellisTAA>
ha. zZzZ night
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<weaksauce>
AV is bad at what it does because of the nature of the beast.
<average>
ok let's go into. so from what I know(not much to be honest, compared to what I should know if I was educated on the subject) people use tripwire, or AIDE and/or monitoring software on servers
<weaksauce>
they have to scan an arbitrary file and look up the "signature" of hundreds of thousands of viruses that they know about and then they have to figure out if it's polymorphic etc.
<average>
and of course.. logs
<average>
right ?
<average>
am I right up to this point ?
<weaksauce>
and they have to do it in a time frame that is acceptable to the user
<average>
and.. tight firewall rules.. and again logs..
<weaksauce>
sure
<average>
ok. both AV(which is considered "Security" on desktops) and monitoring+firewalls(on servers) are based on the assumption that they can detect things
<average>
there are so many things going on .. on a single machine in 0.0001 seconds, and not all of them are logged
<average>
take into account, your machine does extremely many operations, you cannot possibly log all of them.
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<average>
in addition, there's tons of vulnerabilities coming up each and every day
<agent_white>
Didn't see the whole convo going on here...
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<weaksauce>
av is not security average.
<average>
ok, AV is not security
<weaksauce>
not downloading dumb files is more effective than AV
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<weaksauce>
firewalls are not based on the assumption that they can detect things
<average>
how about: there are so many things a machine is running that you cannot possibly keep track of everything
<weaksauce>
you can log enough
<agent_white>
average: Just to address the above, I'm more than well aware of the security concerns of a eval bot. :) "security is important" isn't a 'stupid and idiotic thing to say'. It's simple, to the point, and true.
<average>
how about: there's a constant flow of vulnerabilities that gets published each and every day ?
<weaksauce>
average there are vulnerabilities every day sure. have you actually read them?
<average>
weaksauce: you see, that's my point. and you know it's true. "log enough" . what is "enough" ...
<weaksauce>
do you know how hard most of them are to actually exploit?
<average>
enough for what ?
<agent_white>
Also, Antivirus is crap.
<agent_white>
AV means you already got screwed over and are trying to clean up the mess.
<weaksauce>
^
<average>
weaksauce: I've read a bit about some exploits. Yes, they are hard to take advantage of. It always amazes me who takes the time to find them..
<average>
it's truly quite very interesting how they just pop up
<weaksauce>
average try playing on microcorruption.com and you will come back with an appreciation for it.
<average>
I am in doubt if someone is intentionally looking for them, or if they just notice them by accident
<agent_white>
average: I'm unsure of what you're point is? -- It seems like rambling to me, like asking a dude on mushrooms about the vastness of the universe.
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<weaksauce>
agent_white I am with you. what's the point of anything if we are all dead in 100 years man?
<weaksauce>
(woman maybe)
<weaksauce>
gimme another shroom
<agent_white>
weaksauce: But when we're dead bro, our spirits are thrown into the cosmos... you know how big the cosmos is?
<average>
weaksauce , agent_white I assume all of us are here because we're bored
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<average>
this is not some productive conversation where we're trying to come up with "actionable items" or something like that
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<weaksauce>
average the reason you do security is that 1. it's not that hard to do for most of the things. 2. it doesn't take more time than not doing it because by not doing it you are going to be restoring your hacked machines more frequently
<agent_white>
average: Indeed. I was just curious about your original point of security. Seemed to attack my sentence saying "I know security is important".
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<agent_white>
More importantly
<agent_white>
Ruby needs a sandbox.
<agent_white>
:)
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<weaksauce>
average you really, really, really, lower your attack surface by only having a few ports open on your server and updating the software that is responsible for those ports frequently
<weaksauce>
not sure what else to tell you
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<average>
weaksauce: ok, I'm going to explain more clearly what I'm trying to say
<average>
weaksauce: when you talk about probabilities and statistics, you are right
<average>
if you take some measures then you lower the attack surface
<average>
the thing is, this is not like some sort of "omg, look the roof has cracked, and it's raining and now we can stuff it with something so less rain pours"
<average>
once something is compromised, it's compromised. there is no less/more compromised
<average>
it's a 0/1 thing
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<average>
it actually is black or white
<average>
there's no gray
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<havenwood>
they're no gray, only grey
<weaksauce>
I think you are putting hackers on some kind of unwarranted pedestal. there is a very low risk of having a successful hack exploited on your server if you are somewhat diligent
<havenwood>
Ruby.
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<agent_white>
I just have a good iptables config, and fail2ban on my servers. That's it.
<weaksauce>
do you do the auto update of security patches?
<weaksauce>
and use keys to login?
<weaksauce>
disable root and disable passwords
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<agent_white>
Indeedly!
<average>
weaksauce: and X , and Y, and Z, and W ...
<agent_white>
I use non-default ports for sshd, just because I like my fail2ban logs clean :)
<agent_white>
But that's it, tbh.
<weaksauce>
yeah. that's not a bad practice.
<average>
weaksauce: the list of suggestions for securing machines could go on and on forever
<agent_white>
Sometimes I find a lucky penny on the ground.
<weaksauce>
not really average
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<weaksauce>
what would you add to that?
<average>
a lot more..
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<weaksauce>
maybe 10 more things with increasing marginal gains
<agent_white>
Aye. I mean, hell even using an IDS is pretty over the top.
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<weaksauce>
but, if you are not a neophyte, you will be using some sort of server orchestration software that makes actually doing the extra steps routine when you setup a new box
<agent_white>
Depending on how many nodes you're watching... etc. But for a single VPS hosting a single website, iptables and some good sshd config is fine with me ;)
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<average>
weaksauce: yes, and then you have to monitor everything and keep an eye on it
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<average>
next thing you know, a big chunk of your time is spent on monitoring machines .. when in fact you wanted to do something completely different
<weaksauce>
there are services for that
<average>
SaaS is a complete buzzword
<weaksauce>
just like home robberies, hacking is typically a crime of convenience or being targeted as high value
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<average>
it's like saying "PaaS"
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<weaksauce>
use saas if you think that your time will be 100% focused on monitoring some hackers that aren't there
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<average>
it means nothing
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<weaksauce>
it means software as a service and it implies something like heroku etc
<agent_white>
And that those things you think that help, only hamper.
<weaksauce>
or whatever.
<weaksauce>
or some log monitoring service that you poll out to
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<agent_white>
weaksauce: crime of convenience, imo :) You wouldn't believe the amount of scripted attacks I saw doing sysadmin work in voip. All caught by fail2ban just listening for odd requests.
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<agent_white>
A bazillion just trying to peek at cgi-bin, etc.
<average>
SaaS only means, that the attacker now has a testing environment that he can use to fine-tune his attack so it can be less detectable
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<weaksauce>
:) yeah, I didn't want to discount the "what was the name of the iran nuclear things that got hacked?"
<agent_white>
Dude that shit
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<agent_white>
One of the security researchers looking into the attack was gunned down by dudes on motorcycles.
<agent_white>
(I shit you not)
<average>
this sounds like a media story that got out of proportions
<agent_white>
"Attackers riding on motorcycles are reported to have attached a magnetic bomb to a Peugeot 405 carrying Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan"
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<average>
eh.. that's not even computer security anymore
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<average>
it's just media blowing things out of proportion
<average>
maybe it's true.. who knows
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<average>
weaksauce: so going back to your suggested link microcorruption.com
<average>
weaksauce: I was reading the "about" page
<weaksauce>
sure
<average>
weaksauce: is this one of those challenge things where you learn by doing ?
<weaksauce>
yesish?
<weaksauce>
they don't hold your hand
<weaksauce>
you need to know assembly or be willing to learn an easy variant of it
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<weaksauce>
you need to know some of the common exploits or be willing to research it a bit
<weaksauce>
it's fun try it
<agent_white>
eee CTF!
<agent_white>
weaksauce: Did you ever do hackthisbox/rootthisbox?
<weaksauce>
I got to the level where the source code modifies itself and encrypts it while running
<agent_white>
It was offiliated with hackthissite.
<agent_white>
damn
<weaksauce>
and then real life got in the way :(
<weaksauce>
I think I remember seeing that on the interwebs agent_white
<weaksauce>
maybe slashdot or hacker news?
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<weaksauce>
depends on how long ago that was... it feels like hack this box was a while ago
* agent_white
shrugs
<agent_white>
It's been ~10 years since they were up, both are gone now though. But it was a team CTF with boxes you took out.
<agent_white>
Yeah
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<weaksauce>
yeah some of the final stages of microcorruption you need to do timing attacks on the keys or something like that.
<weaksauce>
get's pretty hard
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<weaksauce>
the first few levels are really easy to get you in the swing of things
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<weaksauce>
agent_white sounds like fun. I love ctf games
<average>
I just wonder if there's a point to working on microcorruption challenges if you're not absolutely serious about doing security
<average>
or if you're not absolutely sure you want to be an expert at it
<weaksauce>
average it's fun and you learn something?
<weaksauce>
does everything need to be a zero sum game?
<average>
since security is very hard(from my point of view), it is zero sum
<jerkey>
agent_white you know what country those people were from, with the motorcycle?
<weaksauce>
lol
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<weaksauce>
I am ranked on that < 700 out of 11000 apparently
<weaksauce>
fun stuff
<weaksauce>
it's hard but it's not zero sum average.
<average>
it's not zero sum ?
<average>
hmm
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<weaksauce>
it's like learning about your car enough so that your mechanic and you can speak the same language.
* average
scratches chin
<weaksauce>
you might not want to do it yourself but you know enough to be effective
<average>
hm, ok
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<average>
weaksauce: do you work in the field of security ?
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<weaksauce>
I do not.
<weaksauce>
indirectly I suppose by being a software dev and studying it a bit
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<average>
that's funny. I was expecting you to say "yes"
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<weaksauce>
heh. it's an interesting topic.
<average>
but there's a ton of things you could have read/studied/worked-on instead of doing microcorruption challenges
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<weaksauce>
sure. that tickled my fancy for a day though
<average>
wouldn't you have rather invested your time in something that had direct impact on the skills you use most of the time ?
<weaksauce>
why not do it? are you going to nickle and dime my movie nights or time spent rock climbing because there are other things that I could be doing?
<weaksauce>
well then chock it up to me not watching tv that day and accept the fact that I evaluated all other time sinks that day and chose that one.
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<average>
it was probably a rainy day
<weaksauce>
who knows where it leads anyway. maybe someday, spurred by the experience there, I contact the people behind the game and apply for a job in their company
<weaksauce>
I live in sunny california... it pretty much never rains
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<weaksauce>
average why are you so worried about possibly making a bad decision on your time?
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<weaksauce>
nothing is permanent. if you think your time is better served in some other venture then you can change course
<weaksauce>
and the skills that you cultivate from other sectors will help you in the new venture
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<porfa>
because of the vibratório ó — hmm do i need a special gem?
<agent_white>
weaksauce: ROCK CLIMBING?!
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<agent_white>
That's had a good impact on my problem solving, I think :) I go out bouldering and climbing with buddies, and all climbing is breaking down a problem into sequences of moves and piecing em together to solve the whole puzzle :) And with buddies, which is good fun.
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<agent_white>
porfa: I'm more worried about your choices of sites to parse to learn nokogiri.
<weaksauce>
agent_white yes indeed
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<weaksauce>
it's like a physical puzzle. I actually went bouldering for 5 1/2 hours last night
<porfa>
haha, hey i changed to vibrators, thats more light than BDSM like i was doing earlier.. haha
<agent_white>
weaksauce: I've actually used that multiple times in job interviews for "what other skills do you have, how do they contribute to your skillset?"
<agent_white>
weaksauce: Hell yeah! Where do you live at?
<weaksauce>
good one to have in the quiver. socal
<agent_white>
Colorado here, we have a _few_ rocks around ;P
<agent_white>
Hell yeah dude
<weaksauce>
ha yeah
<weaksauce>
I live about 2.5 hours away from Tahquitz and Jtree
<agent_white>
!!
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<weaksauce>
so those are my jam
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<weaksauce>
more of a trad climber than sport. and I don't boulder outside.
<agent_white>
Dude I've been jonesn goin to jtree soooo badly.
<weaksauce>
that's my go to crag
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<agent_white>
weaksauce: I've been working to get my rack up for trad, actually!
<weaksauce>
rad
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<weaksauce>
the tahquitz approach is brutal for my out of shape ass
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<agent_white>
I have my .5-3 camelots so far... so it's enough to get me up a few tiny walls. I just need to take a class on it before I'll be real comfy :)
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<weaksauce>
ah yeah. get some DMM offset nuts. those things are magic
<agent_white>
Hahah yeah shit... I haven't been out climbing in nearly a year now :( .. Literally built up my trad rack a bit, then stopped going.
<agent_white>
So I've heard!!
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<weaksauce>
and .3 and .4 c4s or x4s are really useful
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<agent_white>
Lots of folks around here say they're pretty magic for rock aroundhere
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<weaksauce>
I think regular nuts are actually not made for the majority of cracks
<weaksauce>
the offsets just fits so damn well they are my favorite piece of kit
<agent_white>
Yeah I was eyeing those when they came out! Just told myself I really need to hold off until I know how to use everything right haha.
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<agent_white>
weaksauce: I'll have to check them out soon enough! I only have that BD standard stopper set they sell
<agent_white>
#1-13 I believe..
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<weaksauce>
I have some of those and the dmm wallnuts
<weaksauce>
but the offsets are my go to piece
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<weaksauce>
it's a rare thing to have a parallel crack that comes down into a constriction.
<weaksauce>
you can find them but irregular ones are more common
<weaksauce>
unless you go to yosemite on climbs that are not pin scared
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<weaksauce>
trad climbing is the ultimate puzzle though.
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<agent_white>
yeah shit... the mental game alone is!
<weaksauce>
:) I think it's safer than sport actually or it can be
<agent_white>
I'm still not too comfy taking whippers doing sport... most likely due to my little stoner belay-buddy I had eyeballin chicks at the crag instead of watching the climb :P
<agent_white>
weaksauce: Especially with those pre-set quickdraws up all over climbs. I'm not a fan of those at all
<weaksauce>
yeah me either
<weaksauce>
stoner climber... colorado... checks out
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<agent_white>
Hahah
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<agent_white>
I mean, I'd be a hypocrit to say I didn't indulge from time to time ;P But only when I'm bouldering haha
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<weaksauce>
colorado... checks out
<agent_white>
Excercise your right!
<agent_white>
...right? ;D
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<sammilechman>
testing
<weaksauce>
true. I am surprised that CA didn't pass that already
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<porfa>
i can’t find nayhelp online on how to open that sex4fun url ;(
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<porfa>
why is it so hard for nokogiri to open a url with a é character?
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<weaksauce>
I imagine utf is hard porfa
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<jgt>
hey everyone
<porfa>
weaksauce: cna’t i convert the url to somehting else?
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<williamee>
how to get started with rails?
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<helpa>
Rails 4 in Action - http://manning.com/bigg2 - An excellent book combining Rails and TDD/BDD development. Written by Steve Klabnik, Ryan Bigg, Yehuda Katz
<BurningChrome_>
weaksauce it was the obvious book :) I'll take other suggestions too :)
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<weaksauce>
^that's a tutorial style book
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<sevenseacat>
tis indeed a good book.
<weaksauce>
if you want a reference the one from obie fernandez is good.
<weaksauce>
the rails 4 way. it's not a good book to learn from though
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<williamee>
oh; should I use rails 4 or rails 3
<sevenseacat>
rails 4
<sevenseacat>
most definitely
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<weaksauce>
and 2.2.0+ if you can swing it
<weaksauce>
ruby*
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<williamee>
is 2.2 backward compatible?
<sevenseacat>
rails 4 in action teaches using ruby 2.2 and rails 4.2.
<jgt>
is it possible to strip all whitespace from a string, *including* non-breaking spaces?
<williamee>
alright, thanks, i'll take a looka t it
<jgt>
or rather, I know it’s possible, but how should I do it?
<jgt>
couple of gsubs?
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<weaksauce>
jgt that seems reasonable.
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<weaksauce>
are you looking to do this in some sort of tight loop that is performance critical?
<jgt>
nope
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<weaksauce>
gsub sounds fine then
<jgt>
…if anything were performance critical, I probably wouldn’t have chosen ruby :P
<weaksauce>
;)
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<Cadillactica>
first time on IRC
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<agent_white>
Cadillactica: Affirmative, Cadillactica. I read you.
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<Cadillactica>
agent_white how did you tag my name
<Cadillactica>
nevermind - auto tags
<weaksauce>
just type it
<jgt>
Cadillactica: Welcome to IRC: Internet Relay Chat. It’s how hackers talk when they don’t want to be overheard. Think of it like shipping channels in the ocean…
<agent_white>
Cadillactica: Aye! Depending on your irc client, generally you can auto-complete names of people in the channel too. (here in irssi, I type "Cad", hit tab, and it autofills)
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<weaksauce>
wow jgt
<weaksauce>
that's amazing
<jgt>
“luckily I speak 1337”
<jgt>
I love that bit so much
<Cadillactica>
tab autofills for me too
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<Cadillactica>
I’m using Colloquy
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<weaksauce>
today I crossed numbers off the list of things that weren't on my list of things to watch
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<agent_white>
jgt: Hahahaha
<Cadillactica>
jgt: thanks for that link, that was fucking incredible. is swearing tolerated here?
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<agent_white>
Cadillactica: Fine unless someone asks to clean it up!
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<Cadillactica>
agent_white: thanks for the introduction! what other servers/rooms do you spend time in?
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<weaksauce>
#climbing
<agent_white>
Cadillactica: Oh boy. Just depends on what you're interests are! ruby-wise... #ruby, #ruby-lang, #ruby-core, and #rubyonrails are the most prominant.
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<__chris>
anyone using Atom?
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<shevy>
I am made out of them
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<wasamasa>
rofl
<IceDragon>
shevy!
* IceDragon
runs in and trips over wasamasa
<wasamasa>
__chris: no, nobody is using atom, it's just an elaborate joke done by github
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<IceDragon>
REAL MEN USE VIM
<IceDragon>
/says the person who still uses sublime text
<wasamasa>
REAL MEN USE EMACS
<__chris>
IceDragon, we are the same
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<IceDragon>
I'm actually trying to make the change to vim
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* wasamasa
proceeds hacking on his irc bot running on top of an emacs irc client
<shevy>
hey IceDragon
<wasamasa>
IceDragon: good idea
<waxjar>
im p sure real men use notepad
<shevy>
IceDragon what do you use right now?
<shevy>
waxjar yep but notepad with colour highlighting!
<wasamasa>
IceDragon: I recommend using a week or two and `vimtutor`
<IceDragon>
Sublime Text 3 and nano, when sublime doesn't work
<waxjar>
no way, colours are for the weak!
<__chris>
if sublime had good terminal integration then end of story. I'm considering RubyMine but thought I see if anyone is using Atom for Ruby and if helps or hinders workflow
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<IceDragon>
__chris: I used Atom for a day, ITS SLOW
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<IceDragon>
Its not bad looking, BUT DEAR GOD ITS SLOW
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<__chris>
I've been using Terminator and VIM for a while. I have all the nice plugins like ctrl-p and etc but something still just doesnt feel right
<IceDragon>
wasamasa: I'll google that right now
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<IceDragon>
Oh yeah, I forgot I could change sublime to use vim like keyboard navigation...
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<wasamasa>
IceDragon: it's included in the vim installation
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<wasamasa>
IceDragon: once you've gone through it and learned the lessons, proceed consulting the built-in help and build up a cheatsheet
<wasamasa>
IceDragon: you'll eventually grok vim and from there on work with it properly
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<jefus>
i use vim all the time, even the very basics are quick and useful. but i was up late last night and had an unhealthy level of fun finding new settings to enable and ways to get around move things.
<wasamasa>
jefus: could be worse, emacs is basically life-long therapy
<jefus>
hehehe
<jefus>
i've heard
<jefus>
i don't think i've tried it in at least ten years
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<agent_white>
jefus: I feel you there... I discovered `set relativenumber; set number` the other day.
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<agent_white>
Then a plugin to let me do something like 7k to move 7 up... it's like I got a new car.
<agent_white>
:P
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<jefus>
agent_white: hey, i did too!
<jefus>
not the plugin.
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<jefus>
i was missing set number
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<agent_white>
jefus: Checkout repmo-vim if you're interested.
<agent_white>
It pretty much sealed the deal for me adding those to my vimrc
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<jefus>
taking a look
<arup_r>
atmosx: Using Chatzilla... It seems awesome.. then Pidgin
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<arup_r>
Need to learn how to use Tab completion here although
<arup_r>
:p
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<arup_r>
**than Pidgin
<jefus>
started using weechat the other day
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<arup_r>
Migrating all the added channel from Pidgin to Chatzilla... Manually
<arup_r>
:(
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<jefus>
agent_white: ohhh
<jefus>
nice
<agent_white>
It's beatiful, isn't it?
<agent_white>
;P
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<shevy>
how do you like peechat jefus
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<jefus>
it's a relief, really.
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<jefus>
some things just feel right in text mode
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<jefus>
editing code and irc are two of 'em
<jefus>
i haven't delved deep or anything into it but it feels right.
<agent_white>
What'd you use before weechat/
<arup_r>
can anyone say me like arup_r:
<arup_r>
I want to check notification sound
<agent_white>
arpu_r: yes
<agent_white>
rapu_r: fix
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<agent_white>
arup_r: ;)
<arup_r>
ahh! cool
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<arup_r>
:)
<arup_r>
Nice pop up
<arup_r>
But no sound.. :(
<arup_r>
once more please
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<agent_white>
arup_r: BOOP
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<arup_r>
hehe no.. didn't work
<arup_r>
Let me Google
<arup_r>
I do google for all the little things :p
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<jefus>
agent_white: hexchat
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<agent_white>
Ahhhh for sure
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<jefus>
running windows 7 but ssh into a vm
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<jefus>
feels better.
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<jefus>
BitchX with a sexy theme was fun back.. whenever the hell that was
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<arup_r>
please if you don't mind.. once more
<jefus>
does that still exist, arup_r?
<jefus>
arup_r: i speak to you.
<arup_r>
what?
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<jefus>
farup_r
<arup_r>
pop up coming.. But no sound don't why..
<jefus>
oh, i missed important details in that. sorry :P
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<c_nick>
Do we have a group for ruby mine.. My friend got this cool feature that when he debugs line by line the code spits out the output of the statement would love to have that!
<havenwood>
EM is EventMachine and Faraday is an HTTP client.
<deepy>
if YOU had a faraday cage, YOUR wifi would have EXCELLENT signal strength
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<deepy>
No interference or fighting over a channel with your neighbours!
<weaksauce>
deepy brings up a great point
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<average>
interesting
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<average>
weaksauce: you were so against my arguments earlier today(or was it yesterday?)
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<weaksauce>
it was last night
<average>
yet you bring up so many points that are supporting what I'm saying
<average>
it's funny
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<deepy>
'course, cellphone reception would be shite. But who needs 3G when you have WiFi?
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<weaksauce>
I agree that there is not any 100% method to secure a server but I disagree in how hard you think it is to hack a modestly protected server
<weaksauce>
and I also disagree in the amount of time spent setting it up
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<average>
weaksauce: just to make sure I'm clear on this. I have a friend who had a VPS up, right ? so she went about her business, writing code and being busy with actual work right ?
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<average>
10 days after the shellshock attack, her server gets broken into
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<weaksauce>
so? that was a crazy exploit
<average>
and there are many such exploits
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<weaksauce>
not really
<average>
not really ?
<average>
just admit that there's no point to security
<average>
just admit it
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<weaksauce>
no
<average>
why not ?
<average>
all evidence points to that
<weaksauce>
because it's a dumb thing to say
<average>
it's bad for the security industry to say that yes. many many people earn a living off of it
<average>
I can understand that
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<weaksauce>
if you can't see that the shellshock exploit was not a huge outlier then I don't think we can continue this debate
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<weaksauce>
your argument is dumb... it boils down to saying that "fuck, people die in car accidents so wearing a seatbelt, and airbags are not worth using"
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<average>
weaksauce: I hope on the next big exploit that pops up (and we both know there will be new exploits as there have always been) all your servers get broken into, and then you'll really be pondering this from a realistic and down-to-earth perspective..
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<weaksauce>
average so what would you like me to do?
<weaksauce>
unsecure all my servers?
<average>
:))
<average>
no !
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<average>
just admit that security is a complete joke and nuissance
<average>
that's all
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<weaksauce>
it's annoying to have to do it but it's necissary
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<weaksauce>
necessary*
<Cadillactica>
it’s a tough battle but it’s worth fighting
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<Cadillactica>
depending on what information you’re holdilng
<Cadillactica>
holding*
<Cadillactica>
more sensitive information -> higher need for security
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<weaksauce>
^
<weaksauce>
if someone hacks my theoretical website with some theoretical big exploit in the future then I guess I will have to restore from a backup.
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<weaksauce>
until then it's not worth stressing out over
<apeiros_>
average: so I guess you leave all your money on the table and don't have any doors?
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<average>
apeiros_: first off, I don't have any money right now
<average>
apeiros_: and I might not even have a door soon..
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<average>
jk
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<average>
I keep money(the little that I have) in my wallet
<average>
that is my physical wallet in my pocket
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<apeiros_>
well, ok, yes, if you have nothing, then security is a joke and nuisance
<average>
as for the door, I have a door, and it has a key and I use it like any other person would
<apeiros_>
but why? it's a joke and nuisance?
<average>
it's not the same type of joke/nuissance
<average>
on a server you have thousands, tens of thousands of doors
<apeiros_>
it's precisely the same
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<average>
no it's not the smae
<average>
*same
<apeiros_>
there's so many ways to get into your door no matter that you lock it
<average>
no there aren't that many
<apeiros_>
therefore, by your own logic, it's utterly pointless.
<average>
there's just a few ways to get into a door
<apeiros_>
I'm not an expert, and I know 3
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<apeiros_>
well, 4 actually.
<c_nick>
rubymine 6.3.3 has inline debugging option?
<average>
here's a few: break the door, lockpick the door, punch me unconscious get my key and open the door
<apeiros_>
and avoid the door. there's also windows.
<average>
exactly, that's one possibility too
<apeiros_>
works about the same with virtual security.
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<average>
yes, it's about the same, except there are many many more doors and windows
<average>
some you don't even know about
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<average>
there aren't any doors/windows around my house that I don't know about
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<weaksauce>
not until I have my sledgehammer there aren't
<apeiros_>
no, but ways to get into your house.
<average>
there are exactly 6 windows and 1 door, and I know where they are
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<apeiros_>
and the effect is still the same.
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<weaksauce>
you aren't going to be able to stop someone from getting in through your windows
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<apeiros_>
you take precautions, even though you know they won't withstand every attack
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<average>
yes, but I know the windows are there, and I know they could get in through them
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<average>
I know the numbers of doors and the number of windows
<apeiros_>
utterly unimportant
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<average>
I can say with big accuracy what are the ways that someone could get in this particular house. Yet I can say for sure that when it comes to a server, there are many many more ways to do it, and I don't even know all of them
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<apeiros_>
and what difference does that make?
<average>
a hUuuuuge difference
<apeiros_>
then it will be easy to name it
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<average>
the difference: servers get broken into many many more times than houses do
<average>
that's a very obvious difference. I'm sure there are many other differences.
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<apeiros_>
oh, you surely have numbers to back that claim?
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<average>
apeiros_: if I have numbers to back that claim ? just look at all the vulnerability reports in the news and blogs..
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<apeiros_>
oh, only hand-waving, ok.
<average>
apeiros_: wait, are you expecting me to get down to number-crunching so I can prove my claim ?
<average>
I'm not going to do that
<average>
sorry
<apeiros_>
also: "securing your severs is pointless" and "many servers are being broken into" are two quite separate claims
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<ferr>
Hey, I would like to create command like application, which could be entered into separate window and commands submitted there, any suggestions what to start with?
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<weaksauce>
average quickly how many exploits do you think there are in the wild?
<apeiros_>
average: no, I didn't expect you to. FUDers generally don't.
<weaksauce>
guestimate the number of reported ones
<average>
weaksauce: you don't know how many of them there are in the wild, and I don't know that either
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<weaksauce>
in all of ruby there were 208 reported ones.
<average>
how about the unreported ones ?
<average>
how do you guestimate those ?
<average>
you don't
<average>
so you don't know
<weaksauce>
in all of computing there were 68469
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<average>
< weaksauce> in all of computing there were 68469 <== are you sure ? how did you exactly count all of them ?
<average>
do you know how many security advisories there are ?
<Cadillactica>
single quoted string for example ‘+’ are preferred to double quoted ex. “x
<Cadillactica>
“
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<Cadillactica>
when you don’t need to use string interpolation
<apeiros_>
ellisTAA: your problem is not /, your problem is stack[stack_length - 2]
<apeiros_>
it returns nil
<ellisTAA>
cadukkactuca: ty
<apeiros_>
and `nil / …` in turn does not work
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<platzhirsch>
woop
<apeiros_>
Cadillactica: I disagree. you prefer single quotes. I don't :)
<platzhirsch>
shevy: hey snakeman
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<shevy>
yo platzhirsch still in the UK?
<ellisTAA>
ahhh thank you apeiros_:
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<ellisTAA>
apeiros_: ty
<platzhirsch>
of course, I'll probably stick around for another year
<shevy>
you are on your way to become very british
<shevy>
you like tea right?
<apeiros_>
ellisTAA: the message "undefined method `/' for nil:NilClass" tells you that you try to call / on nil. it's helpful to read and learn to understand the exceptions. even if they're not always immediately clear.
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<ellisTAA>
apeiros_: ty
<platzhirsch>
shevy: Coffee, strong, with my Chemex
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<platzhirsch>
I drink Løv tea, which is the little sister of Kusmi tea and headquarted in Paris
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<platzhirsch>
British people are way too nice
<platzhirsch>
everyone says sorry to me and I just think to myself "fuck off"
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<shevy>
lol
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<platzhirsch>
hey, I am still from Berlin after all
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<apeiros_>
you are a berliner!
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<platzhirsch>
Oui
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<hackeron>
hey, I have a bizzare issue, when I run bundle install I get 'Bundler::GemspecError: Could not read gem at /home/deployer/timeagent/shared/bundle/ruby/2.2.0/cache/nokogiri-1.6.6.2.gem. It may be corrupted' - when I run gem install nokogiri -v '1.6.6.2' - it installs fine. Despite being installed, if I re-run the bundle command, it fails to install it with the same error, any ideas?
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<heftig>
ellisTAA: it is, since now "0" tokens are ignored
<ellisTAA>
heftig: your code looks very nice
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<ellisTAA>
and yes it passes
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<weaksauce>
ellisTAA can you come up with a test that your code fails for?
<ellisTAA>
weaksauce: yes
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hackeron was kicked from #ruby by apeiros_ [when cross-posting, at least inform all channels that you cross post.]
<weaksauce>
then write that test and try to make your code pass
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<hackeron>
why?
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<jhass>
hackeron: Please do not crosspost without at least telling so. Experience shows that people don't bother to inform the other channels of provided solutions, therefore it is considered rude.
<hackeron>
jhass: ah, ok, apologies! - was trying to reach another audience
<jhass>
especially since you broadcasted to at least 3 channels
<jhass>
without even waiting for replies on either
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<hackeron>
jhass: good point, you're right!
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<atmosx>
jhass is always right
<atmosx>
it's part of his charm.
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<jhass>
mmh, in politics I usually aren't I think
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<atmosx>
jhass: I don't believe that you are charming, I was just trying to be nice.
* atmosx
ducks
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<jhass>
I know
<shevy>
haha
<apeiros_>
and because he's prince charming, he also cross-posted the "why?"
<atmosx>
you do?
<atmosx>
haha
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<atmosx>
I've stopped reading algorithms, ruby and javascript for the last 6 days. Now I'm exhausted.
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<atmosx>
I can't read politics anymore or economics.
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<shevy>
why not greek economics!
<jhass>
"fiscal waterboarding"
<atmosx>
shevy: apparently, there's this guy, who was working for Valve.
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<jhass>
I liked that one
<shevy>
atmosx I had to dabble for R in the last some days, for next generation sequencing crap
<shevy>
*in R
<shevy>
my brain is still messed up apparently ^^^
<atmosx>
jhass: hm, smarter than I thought. You've got at least 100 points for that remark.
<shevy>
but the R plots are cool
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<atmosx>
shevy: I hate bio-informatics.
<shevy>
hahaha
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<atmosx>
shevy: I trully do, with a passion
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<shevy>
I only hate the maths part, I love synthetic biology
<atmosx>
jhass: you're a professional programmer, I mean you're working or studying?
<atmosx>
jhass: out of curiosity, what was the description/naming of your degree? computer science? engineering?
<shevy>
"Master Honker"
<jhass>
ellisTAA: use a mpa
<jhass>
*map
<ellisTAA>
jhass: fo sho, but why?
<jhass>
it's more idiomatic
<ellisTAA>
jhass: i see. thank you.
<atmosx>
shevy: on "the Guardian" many English comnenters wished that Osbourne (UK Finance minister) spoke English that well. Many referred that that "fiscal waterboarding" term he used, a couple of other phrasal verbs to describe the GR financial crisis. Amazing shit.
<hackeron>
I'm tearing my hair out over this :( - when I run bundle install, I get: "Make sure that `gem install nokogiri -v '1.6.6.2'` succeeds before bundling." - that gem command succeeds without any issues. Here are the full outputs: http://pastie.org/9877011 - any ideas at all?
<hackeron>
jhass: I have followed by bundle install, same error :(
<apeiros_>
yeah, didn't know how to call it
<atmosx>
hackeron: your env is probably messed up
<apeiros_>
and palüm seemed to be an excellent name :)
<Cadillactica>
apeiros_: what does palüm mean
<apeiros_>
Cadillactica: it's the feeling that you'll have immediately before apocalypse
<apeiros_>
j/k, I don't think it means anything
<Apocalypse>
Yeah, I get that feeling too
<Cadillactica>
apeiros_: lol fantastic
<atmosx>
Apocalypse: lol
<apeiros_>
Apocalypse: right, you'd know :D
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<hackeron>
atmosx: it's set up by capistrano on other servers - but this server has a poor 3G connection - I think bundler failed to fetch something initially and now it's stuck
<hackeron>
atmosx: I mean it's set up by capistrano here, just like on other servers - so it's not the env
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<porfa>
hello, can anyone help me parse an utf url in nokogiri?
<hackeron>
atmosx: so the cameras are coming from different locations, each location has a little NUC to do the motion detection and recording
<atmosx>
I'm seen a house, it's creepy.
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<hackeron>
atmosx: my house, heh
<hackeron>
atmosx: well some of the cameras are my house, some are a warehouse far away :)
<atmosx>
hackeron: is that thing open sourcE?
<hackeron>
nope
<atmosx>
hackeron: your project?
<hackeron>
aha
<atmosx>
hackeron: you charge for it?
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<hackeron>
aha
<atmosx>
hackeron: how much?
<atmosx>
hackeron: can it run on RPis?
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<hackeron>
not enough, heh
<atmosx>
hackeron: hahahahah awesome
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<atmosx>
hackeron: is this prpoject based on ruby?
<hackeron>
atmosx: some of it is ruby - the website is rails - but trying to deploy another NUC - have around 50 or so deployed systems - but this time it failed with that bizzare issue :/
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<atmosx>
hackeron: no I was referring to the software running on the NUC
<atmosx>
to make the recordings
<atmosx>
I made a small camera system for my garden. A sinatra project, but didn't set it up. Maybe I'll do in the summer
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<atmosx>
the nuc is expensive though IMHO. An RPi could stream MPEG1 easily. Could also stream 720p or 1080p but *not easily*.
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<atmosx>
hackeron: nice solution really. Much better than anything else I've seen.
<porfa>
jhass: please don’t make fun of the url im trying to parse
<hackeron>
atmosx: yeh, that's also running rails for serving the files (reverse proxied on the website to bypass firewalls, etc) and opencv and stuff like that for the recording/motion detection
<atmosx>
hackeron: very cool.
<hackeron>
atmosx: NUC is expensive, but it can record 10 x 1080P cameras at 30fps each and has a built in 2.5" drive - with event recording, 2TB keeps up to a month
<jhass>
porfa: can I make fun of your browser for not escaping it properly when you copy paste it?
<porfa>
the problem is, i can’t make nokogiri parse me an html that has characters with accents on it, i never ran across this problem, i’ve tried to .tr the “é” for “e” (as it workds in my browser) buyt nokogiri doesn’t get it eiheir.. so i need an “utf.8” nokogiri i guess
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<porfa>
you can make fun of anything you want… yesterday the URL had BDSM on it.. soo
<hackeron>
atmosx: and the celeron NUC is quite cheap, like 100 GBP and does 5 x 1080P cameras
<atmosx>
hackeron: Yes, I see. For deployment say for say 6 cams around the house (wifi available) how much would cost?
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<ellisTAA>
exceptions are errors that either raise an error message or execute code to rescue it from the error right?
<hackeron>
atmosx: if you have an email, I can send you a document with pricing - generally I charge around 300 GBP which includes the NUC and everything is pre-installed on it - so just plug and play - it picks up all the cameras on the local network, you just go on your-name.zanview.com to access - no firewall or anything else to setup
<jhass>
porfa: so you're unclear to what the problm is, you show no error you get and I can't figure out if you have trouble parsing the HTML the site returns or if making a request to the not properly encoded URL already fails
<porfa>
ok, i’ll make another gist, sorry jhass
<jhass>
porfa: you can edit gists
<atmosx>
hackeron: send you my email on pm
<jhass>
porfa: if you have an account I guess, nvm
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<hackeron>
but for the love of god what is wrong with bundelr :/ - "Make sure that `gem install nokogiri -v '1.6.6.2'` succeeds before bundling." -- it does succeed, why won't you install!? :(
<hackeron>
bundler*
<atmosx>
hackeron: do you have a ssh access to that box?
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<gr33n7007h>
porfa, data = Nokogiri::HTML(open(URI.encode(url)))
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<hackeron>
ok, figured it out - the unstable 3g connection drops all active connections after 3MB - wget automatically retries and resumes, but bundle does not - wgetting the file manually solves the issue!
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<jhass>
hackeron: bundle package might be of interest for you