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<GaryOak_>
how does it work?
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<zenspider>
jhass: sorry. I missed that.
<jhass>
zenspider: no worries, we "solved" it after all
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<jhass>
(still not sure how he ended up with that issue)
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<zenspider>
what was it? still catching p
<zenspider>
up
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<jhass>
well, first part neither of us knew how to run minitest in the bundler gem template :P
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<jhass>
second part was that his rake test produced no output
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<zenspider>
plain rake should have worked. barring that, ruby -Ilib:test:. test/some_file.rb
<banisterfiend>
zenspider what's up, how's seattle.rb treating u
<jhass>
then I said it works for me with blabla and then he said it works that way and now I'm confused how he ended up with a bundler generated gem stub with minitest without doing -t minitest
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<jhass>
what do you mean?
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<mikecmpbll>
:)
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<shevy>
jhass look at how many people update that!
<shevy>
and it is written in ruby!!!
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<pipework>
shevy: There is a project for lunix.
<pipework>
I just think people tend not to use it because they already have passable package managers.
<jhass>
well, for the people part I'm sure most distris are on par or actually excel that by far
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<shevy>
but not in ruby!
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<pipework>
jhass: I think most distros already have package management down.
<pipework>
It's a matter of package availability in those distros. We don't need another package manager, we need fpm to be easier and nicer for everyone.
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<jhass>
s/fpm/pacman/, yeah, I agree
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<jhass>
(package managers, the little brothers of editors)
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<shevy>
in ruby!
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<omosoj>
what are good ruby lib equivalents of curl? is curb the best?
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<shevy>
not sure there is a full equivalent
<shevy>
you may have to patchify through open-uri or stuff
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<jhass>
then you can just swap them out when you have difficulties with one
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<omosoj>
hm, not even sure about how to make this decision.
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<omosoj>
will probably be a simple sinatra app
<jhass>
unless you need to send a metric ton of requests, pick whatever you find has the nicest API
<omosoj>
k
<jhass>
if you do have to send a ton of requests (and that means at least several hundred/s), use typhoeus
<baweaver>
I just default to Typhoeus
<baweaver>
faster in most all cases.
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<omosoj>
nah, probably 10 or 20 a day at most (at least to start); but i guess i'd like this tool to be accessible and effective for others if they want to use it
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<weaksauce>
interesting. just a yield is not much of a performance penalty but explicitly passing in a block reference with &block_name is 4.41x slower
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<weaksauce>
yield is 1.14x slower than the baseline of no block defined and no block used
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<shevy>
hah
<shevy>
ruby is so slow
<omosoj>
think i'm gonna go with typhoeus. seems user friendly. thanks baweaver
<jhass>
yeah, crystal has zero overhead for uncaptured blocks :P
<banisterfiend>
jhass do u write crystal
<jhass>
yap
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<shevy>
is crystal speedier than ruby?
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<jhass>
sort of, it generates native code
<jhass>
so it's naturally faster for many operations
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<jhass>
also it gets all the LLVM optimizations
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<sparr>
Is there a way to tell rbenv to use a particular version without making changes to the local filesystem?
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<AlecTaylor>
hi
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<AlecTaylor>
How do I create a static variable? - Want to avoid my whole: `set_before = false; a = 5 unless set_before; set_before = true;`
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<jhass>
a ||= 5
<jhass>
shortcut to a || a = 5
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<weaksauce>
a ||= false is a typical way yeah. if a become nil though along the way it will be set to 5 again.
<AlecTaylor>
jhass: Yes, however `a` will always be non nil in my logic. Just need it set to something else on first run
<jhass>
still sounds like you want a ||= 5
<weaksauce>
AlecTaylor you can set it in an initializer somewhere that gets run once during object creation
<weaksauce>
can you provide some context with a gist AlecTaylor
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<AlecTaylor>
weaksauce: Emulating before_each in minitest
<millerti>
arup_r: So I can copy some numbers that were output from one program in a terminal into another program as an array. Yes, I could make the first program output in the Ruby array format, which is what I ultimately did.
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<c_nick>
I have a Web Server developed in Sinatra, When i try to query the localhost from my web browser the request times out this is not observed for all requests just a certain few
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<c_nick>
i get Erro 502: Proxy Error
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<godd2>
6
<godd2>
evening all
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<ytti>
it works, but whne there is error, I don't really know which item failed
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<ytti>
what is canonical way to run test for multiple inputs?
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* lampd1
wonders if you can set pry breakpoints within minitest to see where it's failing
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<ytti>
i also wouldn't want to test to stop, just because of failure
<ytti>
i'd just want to know where the failure is
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<ytti>
packet.header.join.must_equal @header[name][index], "#{name} at line #{index+1}"
<ytti>
ok this solves my first problem
<ytti>
it passes the second argument to reporter output on failure
<ytti>
but second problem, how to continue running tests, after failures
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<maasha>
Hi, I have a huge stack of strings, where I want to remove duplicates. Using a hash slows down over time because of GC. I have used the google_hash, where GC is decoupled, gem successfully, but google_hash tends to break during install on different systems. Alternatives?
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<hanmac>
maasha you might use md5 or similar to check first before doing == ... have you tried to call "group_by" or something like that for using hash?
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<maasha>
hanmac: so this is several GB of data and it will not fit in memory - a hash of uniques will though. Google hash was pretty good (includes a fast hashing method).
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<maasha>
Or I should find out why Google Hash fails to compile: sparse_ruby_to_double.cpp:251:45: error: ‘rb_dbl2big’ was not declared in this scope make: *** [sparse_ruby_to_double.o] Error 1
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<hanmac>
maasha: what ruby do you use? maybe the gem is just broken or outdated?
<maasha>
hanmac: it works for MRI on mac and linux. But I was in fact trying to get it installed with Rubinius :o)
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<hanmac>
hm yeah that might be the problem ... which means they need to be fixed to work together
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<gr33n7007h>
can tk only display gif's ?
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<maasha>
hanmac: I asked at #Rubinius, but noone is at home. Also, I filed an issue with ruby Google Hash gem
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<maasha>
hanmac: and using Google Hash instead of Ruby's Hash reduces run time from 12 min to 1 min - I like that.
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<maasha>
I have spend the last couple of weeks with a programming proting a ruby prototype to C++
<maasha>
The prototype was witten in a couple of days ...
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<maasha>
The C++ version is 50 times faster.
<maasha>
I guess that is symptomatic.
<maasha>
err* with a programmer
<jhass>
now you know why I have high hopes for Crystal :P
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<ponga>
maasha: symptomatic of what
<shevy>
crystal is also slow
<shevy>
we must accept that as well
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<jhass>
shevy: uhm, no it isn't
<maasha>
ponga: the state of things -> run time vs development type
<maasha>
*time
* maasha
amputates extra thumbs
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<gr33n7007h>
What I'm trying to do is something like "programname arg &" in shell, what should I use for ruby Thread.new, Thread.fork, Process.fork, Process.spawn then kill all pids https://gist.github.com/anonymous/67fc583315e4e75e144f # line 28?
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<Zesty>
If i have a parent class Device with a method like: `def self.all; ALL_DEVICES; end;` and I do class Bluetooth < Device, and inside bluetooth I define ALL_DEVICES = [1, 2, 3].. is that possible? I have lots of devices and its always the same for Bluetooth.all or X.all or Y.all
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<shmoon_>
is there some nice article on binding?
<shmoon_>
unable to understand its usage//application
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<jhass>
shmoon_: its basically the object representation of a scope, you can pass to eval for example
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<jhass>
useful for templating languages and also makes things like pry-stack_explorer possible
<jhass>
Zesty: easy enough to try out. However if all the method does is returning the constant, I'd either access the constant directly (self.class::ALL_DEVICES to get the one defined in the child at the parent) or define def self.all; [1,2,3; end; in all childs, skipping the indirection over the constant
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<Zesty>
Ah! self.class::ALL_DEVICES
<Zesty>
That makes sense, duh....
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<Zesty>
thanks :)
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<shevy>
shmoon_ I am unable to understand many usage examples of some constructs in ruby too :)
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<shmoon_>
jhass: ya got it
<shmoon_>
shevy: really?
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<shevy>
how does crystal handle encoding stuff?
<jhass>
for now everything is UTF-8
<shevy>
arup_r I saw a video of monkeys the other day; there were HORDES of them, really scary. if they organize then they might take over india, just as in the ancient movie planet of the apes
<centrx>
your data is shipped to some meth addicts who like to work work work
<shevy>
centrx your forecasts are always so gloomy :(
<shevy>
centrx how do you see PHP in the future?
<centrx>
PHP will be re-popularized by its use on the Dark Web
<arup_r>
shevy: Well.. I didn't throw the cat ....... I kept it beneath a tree..
<wasamasa>
lol
<shevy>
arup_r don't you eat cats anyway or is that china
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<shevy>
I keep on trying how to make cats become vegetarians but they don't want to :(
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<wasamasa>
just make them hungry enough and they'll eat pasta and fried potatoes
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<developez>
lol
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<developez>
or maybe cat also
<developez>
that would a little weird though
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<arup_r>
lol
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
it's true, they kinda eat more stuff than meat
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* wasamasa
once let some non-meaty food fall down accidentally
<wasamasa>
I was surprised they ate it up despite all the spices
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<shevy>
ponga hey you almost had as nick panda
<ponga>
what's up
<ponga>
um yeah
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<shevy>
not much here, I am continuing on another rewrite
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<shevy>
when I am done here... I think I have only 3 rewrites left!
<ponga>
rewrite?
<ponga>
shevy: ruby => C ?
<shevy>
just ruby projects still
<ponga>
oh shevy tell you what
<shevy>
I don't want to learn C as long as I have old ruby stuff unfinished
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<shevy>
I want the ruby-related parts be in the best possible shape
<ponga>
my dad learnt programming when he was in military academy, and he was like "there was this lang called fortran i learned..."
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<ponga>
and im like "dad some people still use that"
<shevy>
besides this rewrite is the most important one, I use it to compile stuff; for instance, issuing "gnome_update" will update all gnome projects automatically
<shevy>
hehe
<ponga>
and he's like "so they are lying about recent IT development and innovation"
<shevy>
fortran
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<shevy>
why didn't he learn C in the academy!
<ponga>
and "oh there was Basic i used to learn too" and im like "yes people still use that for MS"
<ponga>
and he's like WTF
<shevy>
haha
<ponga>
shevy: dunno
<ponga>
basic and fortran, and cobol
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<shevy>
cobol!
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<shevy>
a programming language that sounds like an atom
<shevy>
in german, the name Cobalt is Kobalt, which is very similar to Kobold; it was said that they haunted the old mines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold
<wasamasa>
like, when you ignore the fact that CPUs these days have caches and branch prediction to make use of these caches
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<wasamasa>
and write code that trashes these systems
<wasamasa>
it can get substantially slower
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<wasamasa>
all that's necessary for that is using a linked list over an array
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<jhass>
that said, mathematics can help in finding a faster algorithm, not only because it consumes less cpu cylces but also there might be a way to do the calculation with less memory
<wasamasa>
oh sure
<jhass>
it's just not what people think about when they say "make it faster through better mathematics" ;)
<wasamasa>
these are pretty much the only aspect I've got to think of when writing ruby
<jhass>
usually
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<wasamasa>
like, simplifying a loop and replace it with a few ones that collect results into a hash
<wasamasa>
which makes my code finish in time and easier to reason about
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<ponga>
oh it was vague and rather dumb question
<ponga>
thanks for answers
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<atmosx>
aloha
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<ponga>
i looked at Javascript V8's hello world, and it doesn't look like Javascript at all to me
<ponga>
;(
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<ponga>
it looks even more verbose than java
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<centrx>
ponga, I think that's how someone might implement a JavaScript compiler for V8
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<ponga>
centrx: so its mostly back-end?
<ponga>
that i'd need not worry about those
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<centrx>
ponga, to write in JavaScript it's alert("Hello, world!") but it looks like in V8 on the command-line it's print("Hello, world!")
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<ponga>
ok
<ponga>
clearly you wouldn't want 'alert' in every case
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<centrx>
right, that's classic browser JS
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<jr_>
ggg
<jr_>
Black cocks are like a ruby.
<jhass>
how so?
<jr_>
they are very precious.
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<jr_>
everyone wants them.
<centrx>
This is a troll from #debian
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<jhass>
jr_: mmh, got any reference? a study?
<jr_>
well just my friends have told me.
<jr_>
but we should do a study.
<jhass>
yeah
<jhass>
if everyone == your firends is equal, that would be a rather lonely world
<maasha>
dup method is extremely resource heavy - why?
<jr_>
they are 12" of precious metals.
<havenwood>
centrx: Wasn't Debian's Ruby package enough of a troll?
<jhass>
maasha: what do you mean?
<jr_>
13"x9"x20lbs of ruby
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<jhass>
jr_: found a ruby tutorial you like already?
<godd2>
Just make Bitruby and start up a blockchain for precious gems
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<maasha>
jhass: I just saw that Hash#initialize_copy (coming from dup) takes up 60% self time in my profile.
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<jr_>
black cocks are the most precious gems of Africa.
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<jhass>
maasha: maybe you call it a bit too often
<godd2>
That doesn't seem right. Wouldn't the be in high supply there?
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<jhass>
allocations are expensive in general
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<jr_>
one questoin
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<jr_>
why some channels say "Cannot send message to channel"?
<jhass>
various reasons
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<jhass>
1) you're banned and 2) you try to send a message to it while not having joined it and the channel has the flag set to prevent it
<jr_>
like what?
<jhass>
should be the most common ones
<jr_>
but i have never been to that channel before
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<jhass>
that doesn't rule out either
<jr_>
I can see the channels list of users on the side.
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<jhass>
anyway, if you're bored you should learn some ruby ;)
<jr_>
i wanna know how i cannot send messages to some channels i have never been to.
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<lampd1>
deny all allow from _
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<lampd1>
policies
<jhass>
time to read up on how IRC works then, flags, access lists, channel flags, stuff like that ;)
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<lampd1>
^
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<godd2>
I can't send letters to some countries I've never been to, like North Korea.
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<godd2>
chanops are literally Kim Jong Un
<jhass>
heh
<jr_>
so what hapened
<jr_>
they banned me before I ever joined?
<jhass>
hard to tell from here really
<godd2>
After the Korean war, half the country was taken over by a dictatorship
<godd2>
oh you meant for your thing
<jhass>
if you want to know you need to learn how to find out
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<jr_>
ok how do i find out?
<jhass>
by learning how user modes, channel modes and channel access lists work
<jr_>
man thats too complex
<jhass>
and how you query and control them on Freenode
<jhass>
yeah
<jr_>
everything on linux is too complex.
<jhass>
so learn some Ruby instead!
<jhass>
dunno, I always find windows more complex
<ponga>
whoa that was hard , me first time using terminal vim to edit ~/.zshrc
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<jr_>
not enough jobs for ruby.
<ponga>
i feel like im grown older now
<godd2>
jr_ everything is complex if you don't take time to understand it
<jhass>
jr_: who cares, it's fun
<jr_>
on windows, one click and youre done
<jr_>
on linux, you have to use commands
<jhass>
but I need to find out where to even click
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<jr_>
i install a package and it complains about a broken packages
<jr_>
who cares
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<jr_>
it compplains about dependencies
<godd2>
jr_ you may want to use a different word from "complex" then. try "unfamiliar"
<jr_>
on android and windows i just click and install
<jr_>
done
<ponga>
jr_: i'm banned from ##esperanto , because my nick name clashes with already banned nick list
<ponga>
it just HAPPENS
<godd2>
lol that your example is andriod
<jhass>
jr_: well, android is linux ;)
<jr_>
android is easy to use
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<jr_>
even easier than windows
<godd2>
therefore, linux is easy to use
<jr_>
thats why linux never made it mainstream until android came.
<jhass>
jr_: but check out tryruby.org
<drizz>
troll detected
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<jhass>
drizz: you don't say!
<ponga>
osx is easy to use, i.e. my grandma managed sending email in my mac, but couldnt do anything in windows
<ponga>
*confirmed
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<jr_>
it tells me i cannot install because i have broken packages for exmaple, so if they are broken, why notify me? why not just fix them and install what i want.
<godd2>
oh cmon, jr_ is just frustrated that he/she doesn't know a thing and that it will take longer than 10 minutes to learn it
<jhass>
jr_: why don't you do it?
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<jr_>
why dont i do what?
<jr_>
i use linux mint
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<jr_>
but i hate the command line
<jhass>
and you pay nobdody for being able to use it
<jhass>
so you have no demands to anyone to fix anything
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<jhass>
so why not take up the fun and actually find out why people do that stuff without getting paeid?
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<jhass>
*paid
<jr_>
what stuff?
<jhass>
"linux mint"
<jhass>
software in general
<jr_>
linux mint gets donations.
<ponga>
does anyone run linux on their macbook here
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<ponga>
wouldn't battery time be terrible if you did that
<lampd1>
i just use vagrant
<ponga>
*battery life
<jr_>
how can i run android on my x64 labtop?
<jhass>
jr_: that usually only barely covers server costs
<eam>
ponga: my mom is completely computer illiterate and she uses ubuntu just fine
<godd2>
ponga I like "battery time" better
<godd2>
sounds like a dance
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<eam>
anyone can click on an email icon or browser icon
<jhass>
jr_: google would know
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<eam>
the less technical someone is the less important the choice of platform becomes
<jr_>
well all i say if they want linux to be more mainstream, they gotta make it easier to use like android.
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<jhass>
jr_: who's they?
<ponga>
godd2: i don't get the word 'battery time' anyway, by 'life' does it mean "the battery's overall lifecycle and health' or 'charge remaining to make use of'
<ponga>
it could mean both
<ponga>
English is stupid
<jr_>
well the people who creates the linux distros.
<eam>
jhass: maybe "they" means apple and he's talking about unix at large
<eam>
in which case, it's history
<jhass>
jr_: why is their motive to make it mainstream?
<jr_>
well more money
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<jhass>
so that's red hat and cannonical, two out of a few hundred
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<eam>
how can we make ruby more mainstream
<jhass>
can't be the main motive, don't you think? ;)
<shevy>
better docu!
<shevy>
and a simpler design
<ponga>
eam: make a killer content
<toretore>
how can we make ruby less mainstream
<eam>
shevy: no one reads the docs
<jr_>
well it is
<toretore>
:(((
<shevy>
eam well, the docs are awful
<ponga>
some kind of API or framework that is so good to make people learn ruby and use it
<shevy>
I say we use the perl docs
<jhass>
eam: I thought you wanted perl to go mainstream?
<jr_>
otherwise what is the point in only serving 2%
<ponga>
the only way
<jr_>
of all the computers
<eam>
jhass: it already did
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<shevy>
eam but another problem are the bindings. I dunno why but there are much more python bindings than ruby bindings
<jhass>
jr_: having fun
<jr_>
only 2% or maybe 4% use linux
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<ponga>
shevy: you really dont know?
<eam>
jhass: every language that goes mainstream is a wasteland within 10 years because all the non-programmers create programs for it and become the face of the community
<ponga>
;p
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<ponga>
eam: is that how ##haskell still has 1000+ users in it
<ponga>
oh!
<eam>
shevy: bindings to what?
<shevy>
ponga yep I don't know. I never really wrote bindings; I did the pickaxe part about the jukebox but without really understanding C it is useless
<shevy>
eam to everything!
<eam>
there kinda are
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<ponga>
shevy: cos google loves python and so does everyone
<shevy>
everywhere there are bindings that perl and python have but not ruby
<ponga>
more people working on it
<eam>
shevy: like what?
<shevy>
eam qt!
<eam>
but ruby does have qt bindings?
<jhass>
shevy: it's because Ruby makes bindings so hard, look at how easy they are with Crystal :P
<ponga>
but i believe its about popularity than usability
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<shevy>
eam well let's ask this channel
<shevy>
Who of you guys here has written an app in ruby-qt?
<ponga>
shevy: i don't see weakness of ruby significant to make itself inferior to python anyway
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<drizz>
jhass: you can do runtime ffi bindings in Ruby aswell
<ponga>
its just popularity, isnt it
<eam>
shevy: well, you might as well ask who's written an app in TK
<shevy>
oh there are a few who wrote stuff in ruby-tk actually
<x77686d>
Academic question: Is there way to prevent all use of instances of Array in a program? I'm aware of Object.send(:remove_const, :Array) but it doesn't stop 'x = []'
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<jhass>
mh, I don't think so
<arup_r>
any idea ?
<arup_r>
jhass: why ?
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<jhass>
arup_r: that was for x77686d
<arup_r>
Ohh!
<arup_r>
my plate is still empty .. I see
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<jhass>
arup_r: to your question, binding is a method call, it returns the current scope and that doesn't have an implicit block param set
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<arup_r>
x77686d: is this Intel machine code ?
<jhass>
that you pass a block to the binding method is irrelevant, it doesn't take one and thus just ignores it
<arup_r>
other method also returning the binding object.. why then it passed the block ?
<x77686d>
arup_r: Is what machine code?
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<arup_r>
x77686d: -> x77686d
<jhass>
arup_r: because it returns the scope of that method, which does have a block set
<ponga>
x77686d: your nick
<x77686d>
Hex for "whm"
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<arup_r>
jhass: I didn't set the block.. I don't have the block var also to the method call #get_binding
<arup_r>
then how it got set /
<arup_r>
?
<jhass>
arup_r: you can think of the block_given? being run in the context of where you called binding
<arup_r>
humm
<arup_r>
internally ?
<jhass>
?
<jhass>
do you know what a scope is?
<jhass>
or a stackframe?
<arup_r>
being a method `#binding` why couldn't set the block ?
* arup_r
feels <shy>
<arup_r>
I know scope.. jhass : but what is stackframe ?
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<jhass>
the place where all the locals for a function calll live
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<arup_r>
ok
<jhass>
and other data necessary for the function to be run inside the right scope
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<arup_r>
Well.. for binding method why the stackframe is not got set for the block
<arup_r>
?
<jhass>
and stuff like the return address, that is the place where execution should return to after the function exits
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<jhass>
the binding method returns the current one
<jhass>
calling binding, you don't define a new scope, you get a representation of the one you call binding in
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<jhass>
so on line 8 it's the scope of get_binding when it's called with the block in line 11, on line 12 it's the top level scope
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<arup_r>
ok
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<jhass>
arup_r: try setting a few locals to different values and accessing them instead, that might be easier to understand than with the implicit block param
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<arup_r>
ok
<arup_r>
I got the point
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<ponga>
shevy: are you there
<ponga>
im tired of constantly bumping into corners trying build javascript V8
<ponga>
should i just install node.js and use it instead
<ponga>
;(...
<wasamasa>
yes
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<ponga>
wasamasa: apparently node.js runs on V8, so if i just wrote what i wanted (ignoring the fact nodejs is for network programming) and ran it thru node, im using v8 right?
<ponga>
can't handle buildling v8 on ma machine ;(
<wasamasa>
ponga: pretty much
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<ponga>
gud
<shevy>
ponga I am there. Did you try to look at the beyond linux from scratch pages there?
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<ponga>
shevy: no, i just follwed build instruction
<ponga>
and it spits out error
<wasamasa>
ponga: what do you need it for, rails?
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<ponga>
wasamasa: no.. its a long story, but to put it simple, if i ever wanted more performance than my ruby2.2.0, i thought i'd switch to Javascript than C/Java/C++/etc
<wasamasa>
ponga: sounds actually sensible
<ponga>
i code to enjoy
<wasamasa>
ponga: minus the ugly parts of javascript of course, but pretty much anything has those
<ponga>
i wouldn't enjoy coding in C/Java
<miah>
ive been enjoying go
<ponga>
wasamasa: yeaeh i first thought of python a long time ago, but it seems ruby is as good as python now, so python's like nah.. and i heard recently that V8 is damn fast
<ponga>
and javascript is comfortable enough to me
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<wasamasa>
ponga: well, js isn't to me
<miah>
i dont mind js, i just hate its ecosystem
<havenwood>
ponga: What's the Ruby that is too slow and is it actually at all faster in JavaScript?
<ponga>
but then, i still have Jruby/Graal
<ponga>
havenwood: not yet, i haven't encounterd speed problem yet
<ponga>
i run my code on Jruby9000/graal and its pretty gud
<miah>
gives us some things to think about at least
<ponga>
but i just curious , so i went over to install V8 (for fun too)
<ponga>
and it was all hassle
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<miah>
^- yup
<ponga>
so im like 'hey let's just install node.js, it runs on v8 too'
<miah>
every time i've waded into node territory. which is a few times because i do systems admin. its always a pita to manage and get setup consistently
<miah>
and we've run some poissbly poorly written node apps that have left a distaste
<ponga>
havenwood: so i should stick with ruby until i encounter significant slow down with specific feature/library(method?) im using
<miah>
+1
<havenwood>
ponga: yup! :)
<ponga>
ok havenwood thanks
<miah>
and also use bencharks to improve your slow methods
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<bradland>
if sysadmin has taught me anything, it is that you can only afford to worry about what you have to
<miah>
ya
<miah>
only so much time in the day
<miah>
and every piece of software is shit and failing
<havenwood>
ponga: And at that time if there isn't a Ruby implementation that's amongst the fastest options, you might be able to pick a lang like Crystal that's based on Ruby so very familiar.
<miah>
doesnt matter the language. always the same problems.
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<shevy>
we could all use COBOL!
<havenwood>
ponga: Or Mirah or Elixir. The Rubyesque.
<bradland>
psh, COBOL.
<bradland>
JCL brah
<godd2>
shevy I'll just use Python to get my required-indentation fix
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<shevy>
hehe
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<ponga>
hey havenwood can i ask something about jruby/graal/truffle
<havenwood>
ask anyone
<ponga>
i installed it as instruction, if i wanted to use this interpreter, do i just go 'jruby mycode.rb' in terminal as usual
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<shevy>
ack ponga
<ponga>
or do i need to pass options or so
<shevy>
didn't you learn
<shevy>
you are back to java things again!
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<havenwood>
shevy: GraalVM ftw!
<ponga>
shevy: but..but.. Jruby is so damn fast... *sob
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<ponga>
it performed 4 times faster even on my crappy code
<shevy>
no worries; if crystal will be much faster than ruby, then matz will have to respond
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<ponga>
havenwood: am i good typing in 'jruby mycode.rb' in terminal if everything is installed fine
<ponga>
or should i go jruby mycode.rb blah blah blah with many options passing thru
<havenwood>
ponga: #jruby would be a good place to ask for specifics
<ponga>
havenwood: k im good, i was doing it fine
<ponga>
thanks
<havenwood>
ponga: np
<ponga>
wow crystal looks interesting for sure
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<ponga>
how fast is this lang?
<havenwood>
shevy: The MRI team has already announced the LLVM JIT coming in Ruby 3.0.
<bradland>
orly!?
<bradland>
that's pretty amaze
<jhass>
ponga: it generates native code using LLVM, so with optimizations turned on you reach C but have to substract the time for the GC runs
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<ponga>
havenwood: i studied what LLVM and JIT are(i did) but what real changes would they make in ruby?
<ponga>
can you dumb it down
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<jhass>
ponga: not that it's not super stable yet and stdlib still has holes to fill. Otoh if you ever wanted to contribute to a languages stdlib, best time ;)
<jhass>
mmh, don't even know asterites and wajs real names :P
<chrisseaton>
ping me if you have questions about Truffle
<bradland>
ponga: ruby, in its current implementation, is strictly interpreted, which means that your script is sent to the ruby interpreter on invocation
<eire>
Hi, I am new to ruby and I am currently working on a project. I am stuck at one part and was wondering would any of you guys be willing to give me a helping hand? I apologise in advance if this chat is not meant for queries like this one.
<bradland>
with JIT languages, your code is compiled to bytecode, which is inbetween text and a true compiled application
<ponga>
bradland: and with LLVM JIT it is compiled in real time?
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<bradland>
to bytecode
<shevy>
havenwood not sure what LLVM JIT means... is that like JVM?
<ponga>
i believe it is sorta like JVM
<jhass>
eire: it absolutely is, but don't ask for a person to help you, just state your problem and have some patience ;)
<shevy>
ponga BUT WITHOUT JAVA!!!
<bradland>
JVM means java virtual machine, which is an implementation
<bradland>
that uses JIT
<ponga>
shevy: absofuckinglutely
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<bradland>
java popularzed JIT, but it's not the only implementation to use it (not that I have a list of examples)
<bradland>
just that i'm sure it's not the only one
<bradland>
ponga: JIT actually goes one step further than bytecode, i think
<ponga>
ok
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<bradland>
as in, it takes bytecode, and takes it all the way to native code upon execution
<ponga>
oh
<ponga>
shevy: crystal is a static language?
<bradland>
but it only does this for what it needs, or something like that
<bradland>
which is why they call it just-in-time
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<ponga>
u sorry shevy forget it i was dumb asking that
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<ponga>
havenwood: altho i undertand mere concept of what LLVM JIT does, i can't grasp by how much it will improve performance
<ponga>
like.. a lot?!
<ponga>
hehe
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<bradland>
ponga: performance improvement is always relative to the task being done, so it's hard to make generalizations
<chrisseaton>
The problem with using LLVM for a language like Ruby is that it needs static types, so you have to build something on top of it in order to find static types
<bradland>
there are also trade-offs
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<chrisseaton>
Like tracing, or partial evaluation, and those are big tricky projects that aren't easy, and LLVM doesn't help you with it at all
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<ponga>
chrisseaton: would it have to 'guess' the type in process
<chrisseaton>
ponga: we'd say it makes an optimistic assumption rather than guess
<eire>
I am creating a scheduling system. I want to allow users to input user_ids and a date. I then want to take that information and run my algorithm which I have created in my meetings controller. The algorithm will return an array of datetimes representing the times when all users input are free to meet. I then wish to display a page with a list of these times to the user, and a button beside each allowing the user to choose that slot and crea
<eire>
Any pointers in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. :)
<jhass>
eire: got cut off at "and crea", IRC has a message limit and your client doesn't handle it for you ;)
<ponga>
you could pastie it
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<ponga>
so shevy you are looking into crystal?
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<eire>
Sorry. ....and create a meeting in that slot.
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<ponga>
oh and slightly happy looking at python doing poorly
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<ponga>
dunno why, it just makes me
<jhass>
don't expect to just write Ruby though, Crystal has strongly Ruby inspired syntax, but is its very own language
<ponga>
yop
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<ponga>
jhass: at least i don't have to write verbosely like java, im ok with learning new syntax
<ponga>
hehe
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<jhass>
yeah, foo = [] of String|Symbol is about as verbose as it gets
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<jhass>
def foo(&block : String -> Int) is the worst part maybe
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<jhass>
I put a eval bot into #crystal-lang, if you want to fool around a bit ;)
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<SolarNRG>
hi
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<SolarNRG>
does anybody no powershell?
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<jhass>
yeah, no use powershell, all zsh here
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<havenwood>
shevy: the difference is J vs LL it seems :P
<aewffwea>
Is it possible with Dynamoid to add/update a new multi-value field to an existing row? with a single dynamo query?
<havenwood>
ponga: what they said ^
<havenwood>
SolarNRG: zsh here too
<shevy>
ponga I don't have time to look into anything else right now :( I try to polish up my ruby, and all old projects; not start anything new; and once things are in a good shape, I'll transition into C most likely full time (as otherwise I'd just abandon it for ruby all the time); also crystal looks way too fresh, I am sure there are caveholes
<shevy>
I'll still retain ruby!
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<jhass>
shevy: that's why it's fun! it's entirely written in itself, so you can just fill all the open holes and contribute them for use for everybody!
<havenwood>
SolarNRG: Try: #Powershell or slack.poshcode.org
<SolarNRG>
cheers
<aewffwea>
And what are the rules of mixins? suppose I have class A and superclassA and I add a mixin to superclassA can I use it from both class A and superclassA?
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<gr33n7007h>
reckon ruby 3.0 will get the GIL removed?
<havenwood>
gr33n7007h: yes
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<gr33n7007h>
awesome!
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<gr33n7007h>
ruby 3.0 is going to be wicked
<shevy>
jhass hehe but I already have a lack of time!
<shevy>
jhass I wonder how you can manage
<shevy>
aewffwea mixins are like an additional superclass mostly; you can look at .ancestors
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<havenwood>
gr33n7007h: JRuby and Rubinius paved the way! So a lot of the gem work needed for thread safety has already been done, which is lovely.
<ponga>
i wish i was good enough to contribute to these awesome projects
<ponga>
i really think i should study more
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<jhass>
ponga: you probably are, backfilling crystal stdlib is really easy
<ponga>
really?
<aewffwea>
shevy: let me rephrase this... yesterday I was using classA and superclassA... I added a mixin that adds an instance variable and some methods to superclassA, but when I tried using them the variable was nil...
<aewffwea>
shevy: Now if I only include the mixin in classA instead of superclassA now superclassA works and can find the instance variable with the proper value....
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<aewffwea>
what's happening there?
<ponga>
oh what
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<shevy>
aewffwea I assume the variable was nil because you did not initialize it yet
<ponga>
jhass: is crystal's library written in itself?
<jhass>
ponga: yup
<jhass>
ponga: the compiler too, everything really
<aewffwea>
shevy: The mixin initialized it on "included"
<ponga>
how's that even possible?!
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<ponga>
that's like giving birth by oneself
<ponga>
crazy
<shevy>
aewffwea, look at this example:
<shevy>
>> module Foo; def initialize; @foo = 5; end; end; class Bar; include Foo; end; p Bar.new.instance_variables
<jhass>
ponga: well, in what language is GCC written? ;)
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<shevy>
now you see, the @ivar was defined in a module, and the Bar has it just through the include Foo statement
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<ponga>
jhass: C? am i wrong?
<jhass>
nope, it's C
<shevy>
jhass GCC has assembler parts too I think!
<jhass>
ponga: they bootstrapped the initial compiler in Ruby though, up to the point where it could compile itself basically
<ponga>
oh i get it
<ponga>
like 40%
<bradland>
the story of how BCC is bootstraped is really interesting
<shevy>
BBC?
<bradland>
you guys should definitely google it
<tuelz>
what chain of methods would I use to look though a hashs k,v's compare the v to something and replace that v with a value if the comparison was true?
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<bradland>
GCC
<bradland>
derp
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<shevy>
ah hehehe
<havenwood>
not C%, not C?, not C#, just C
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<shevy>
they probably sacrificed some chickens to get it running
<tuelz>
that is, I want to look through a hash to find values 'TRUE' and replace that with true
<aewffwea>
let me figure out my example
<aewffwea>
>> module Foo; def initialize; @foo = 5; end; end; class SuperBar; def print; @foo; end; class Bar; include Foo; end; p Bar.new.print
<jhass>
didn't Rubinius have the goal to do as much as possible in Ruby too?
<tuelz>
actually there are two ends missing I think
<shevy>
aewffwea for the most part, a module is like a class but with somewhat reduced functionality; except that you can also include it
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<ponga>
ok this story is a bit too difficult to me for now
<ponga>
;p
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<shevy>
jhass well there is a different project maintainer now and projects often change with new folks in charge, e. g. how shoes4 now requires jruby when the old shoes by _why did not
<shevy>
_why should be hired to do more comics
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<jhass>
ponga: there's nothing magical about compilers, they are programs that take data (text representing programs) and transform them into other data (native code, some bytecode etc.)
<bradland>
it's turtles all the way down
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<ponga>
jhass: but if compiler itself was in crystal, wouldn't it need another lang like C to run it in operating system
<ponga>
now i think i sound dumb
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* ponga
is sad being dumb
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<zoskia>
:(
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<ponga>
but hey the link you gave me is comprehensible to me
<ponga>
i can read, i can put effort, but there are just too many(far too many to handle)
<zoskia>
Read them all as they come!
<jhass>
ponga: no, what you think of is a runtime, a program that interprets the code as it is run. A compiler translates code into other code (suitable for consumption by another compiler or a interpreter/runtime) or native code (machine instructions for the CPU) directly
<havenwood>
ponga: Before the Crystal compiler was written in Crystal it was written in Ruby. Like before the Go compiler was written in Go it was written in C.
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<weaksauce>
tuelz x = {test: "TRUE", this: 25}; x.each do |k,v| x[k] = true if v.respond_to?(:downcase) && v.downcase == "true"; end
<ponga>
and if i were to read this book, it assumes i already have prerequisite knowledge of this, and on and on so i fall into this loop of books
<ponga>
;(
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<ponga>
ah
<ponga>
that makes sense now
<ponga>
like 80%
<ponga>
thanks!
<jhass>
ponga: you can think of the CPU as a interpreter in hardware, it takes commands too, we call them instructions there
<shevy>
This example works as initialize is called when you invoke .new on a class: module Foo; def initialize; @foo = 5; end; end; class Bar; include Foo; end; Bar.new
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<aewffwea>
isn't included called when you include a mixin?
<shevy>
aewffwea come on man, you know that def initialize is the starting point!
<shevy>
I have no idea
<aewffwea>
When a class includes a module the module’s self.included method will be invoked.
<shevy>
k so you use an @ivar on the module instance itself
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<shevy>
how do you wish to make this @ivar known to an instance of your class?
<aewffwea>
if I reference it from a method inside the module
<aewffwea>
does it reference the instance on the class, or on the module?
<shevy>
they aren't on the same level
<aewffwea>
what?
<shevy>
if you include the module in your class, the module still has all its class-level instance variables
<shevy>
the solution already was given, simply use a def initialize in your module
<aewffwea>
shevy: you gave a solution, but it wasn't a solution to my problem
<shevy>
<aewffwea> And what are the rules of mixins? suppose I have class A and superclassA and I add a mixin to superclassA can I use it from both class A and superclassA?
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<aewffwea>
shevy: That's what I'm asking you
<aewffwea>
shevy: What are the rules of mixins?
<shevy>
I explained it - you mix it in, it is available in your class
<aewffwea>
I meant the details
<aewffwea>
That's a high level overview
<aewffwea>
I want to understand how the corner cases work
<shevy>
what corner cases exactly?
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<aewffwea>
method in mixin refers variable
<aewffwea>
where is that variable located?
<shevy>
that depends on the scope of self there
<shevy>
which is the same rule for both classes and modules by the way
<Dolphi>
I know that this is a ruby channel so I apologize in advance for this question. In python 3, how would I perform a line break? I want to make my code output break lines in order to appear more visually appearing when run in PowerShell.
<Dolphi>
Appealing*
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<weaksauce>
print out a \n
<Dolphi>
Thank you weaksauce.
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<jhass>
Dolphi: I'm curios, why didn't you ask the python channel?
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<weaksauce>
^
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<Dolphi>
I cannot join that channel until I register my nickname on freenode, but I do not know how to do that. I am new to IRC.
<jhass>
Dolphi: say /msg NickServ help
<tobiasvl>
#python-unregistered
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<Dolphi>
REGISTER
<Dolphi>
Whoops...
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<shevy>
:D
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<shevy>
Dolphi come to #ruby anyway man, we don't mandate registration!
<shevy>
sadly #ruby-lang does and #rubyonrails does as well :(
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<shevy>
ponga I just fixed the class UpdateEntry; now I can again from the commandline update programs... e. g. "ue http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/glib/2.43/glib-2.43.90.tar.xz", afterwards i can compile it via "compile glib" (or rather an alias, "ry glib" or "ecompile LAST")
<shevy>
what the fudge...
<shevy>
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<ponga>
shevy: sorry im having fun with crystal at the moment
<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
it looks very similar to ruby
<shevy>
can you re-use ruby code in crystal btw?
<shevy>
that would be cool
<ponga>
shevy: i think you can
<havenwood>
shevy: #ruby-lang no longer requires nick reg
<ponga>
as almost
<shevy>
havenwood ah cool! let me try
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<shevy>
yay
<shevy>
now I have another channel to idle in
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<shevy>
ponga that would actually be awesome; like coffeescript and javascript. I could retain all my ruby code, and if things need to be faster I could then use crystal
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<ponga>
shevy: it even read my 10.times do puts "hello world" end
<ponga>
and as far as i read doc, it looks almost same to ruby
<jhass>
well, you will run into incompatibilities soon enough ;)
<jhass>
a = [] breaks
<jhass>
include? is includes?
<jhass>
attr_reader/write/accessor is getter/setter/property
<jhass>
stuff like that
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<Dolphi>
shevy, You don't remember me?
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<Dolphi>
shevy, We met a while back. I believe that you are the first person that I ever talked to on IRC. I also believe that I told you I wanted to learn ruby because I wanted to put a ruby icon sticker on my new laptop (because it looks cool and represents that I know ruby)
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<Dolphi>
I also remember ponga and bradland. :)
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<shevy>
Dolphi hmm
<shevy>
Dolphi I kinda have a 2-days-memory on IRC :\
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<ponga>
hi Dolphi
<shevy>
it's one neverending scroll for me without any timestamps
<Dolphi>
Yeah, it was over a month ago.
<shevy>
ah
<Dolphi>
I haven't logged on for a long time.
<shevy>
you mean you were completely new to IRC altogether?
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<Dolphi>
Yes
<shevy>
now that is awesome :) I remember like ... 17 years ago or more actually, I was new to IRC; back then on windows, with mIRC, on Galaxynet
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<Dolphi>
I think that you may have even recommended me HexChat
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<Dolphi>
Either you or bradland did...
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<shevy>
hmm that might be me, because I still use xchat right now, and contemplate switching to hexchat one day (I failed to compile it a few months ago and did not try again, cuz I am lazy and xchat still works for me)
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<Dolphi>
I know jlnr also :)
<Dolphi>
Anyway, is it alright if I ask one more question about python 3? I don't really want to verify my email address at the moment because I'm too lazy.
<Dolphi>
:P
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<jhass>
try #python-unregistered then ;)
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<Dolphi>
I did but it wouldn't let me post there for some reason.
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<jhass>
are you sure? maybe just nobody replied?
<Dolphi>
I suppose I will just stop being lazy and verify my email address.
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<Dolphi>
":Cannot send to channel"
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<jhass>
mh
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<gr33n7007h>
weechat-curses ftw!
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<shevy>
Dolphi go ask stuff about python 3
<shevy>
at the least we can try and convince you to use ruby!
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<shevy>
except for jhass
<shevy>
he will try to convince you to use crystal instead
<jhass>
shevy: sssh, don't reveal my secret plan to world domination!
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<Dolphi>
I'm just trying to figure out how to draw an image to the screen.
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<Dolphi>
I'm making a small conditional branch type program. If you push 1, I want it to display an image.
<jhass>
I usually just shell out to xdg-open
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<shevy>
the default way to compile into /usr prefix
<shevy>
that is kinda messy. the old versions in /usr/lib will stay there
<jhass>
aren't package managers a great invention? ;)
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<Dolphi>
Okay guys, I have a question but I don't want to start any arguements.
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<Dolphi>
From an absolute beginner's standpoint (also unbiased of course), would you recommend Ruby or Python?
<shevy>
jhass the problem is - what do you do when you wish to update?
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<jhass>
shevy: and it's not in the repos yet you mean?
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
take debian
<shevy>
:)
<jhass>
Dolphi: #ruby will tell you Ruby, #python will you Python and #nodejs will tell you JavaScript, there's no other answer
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<shevy>
Dolphi well
<Dolphi>
Are there any reasons why one should use a specific language?
<Dolphi>
Like if they were developing certain types of things?
<shevy>
Dolphi the biggest difference between ruby and python is the philosophy
<jhass>
shevy: since you asked me, not hypothetical debian using me, I would do yaourt -G package; cd package; vim PKGBUILD; edit the version; updpkgsums; makepkg -si
<shevy>
otherwise they are very similar, they have a very very similar niche
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<godd2>
Dolphi not really. What are your goals with programming? Do you want to make a career out of it?
<shevy>
their syntax is somewhat comparable
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<Dolphi>
I want to make apps for android and windows phone.
<Dolphi>
Possibly games as well.
<godd2>
Dolphi then Javascript wouldn't be a bad idea to start with. All these Ionic apps are sounding pretty cool
<jhass>
Dolphi: you're far to early to worry about things like that. You need to learn programming, any high level language will make you do that. After that it's just picking up the right tool for the right job and the answers to such questions will become quite obvious
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<Dolphi>
I want to learn Ruby first then because I like the logo and it seems cool since I've heard a lot of people in Silicon Valley use it. :P
<shevy>
lol
<Dolphi>
Thank you.
<shevy>
that was the best reason I ever heard
<shevy>
the logo reason :)
<shevy>
you might like the logo for the Go language too
<Dolphi>
I mean come on, Python? lol
<Dolphi>
The logo is horrible.
<shevy>
Dolphi you could use javascript too btw, it's kinda becoming more and more important because everyone is browsing the web
<Dolphi>
Go? Never heard of that one.
<shevy>
for ruby vs. python though, I will predict you'll pick only one of these two