<ivanskie>
'Doesn\'t kill live cell with 2 neighbours' fails... i can't figure it out.
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<ivanskie>
i thought it was faling because of storing new state till next round. but nope
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<bradland>
ivanskie: what version of ruby are you running?
<ivanskie>
2.2
<ivanskie>
i just realized that the guy's code isnt passing either
<bradland>
ok, if the tutorial is old, you might try running it under 1.9.3
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<ivanskie>
well im going along and he uses the old rspec with :should stuff.
<ivanskie>
and i'm adapting it to expect
<ivanskie>
which has been working alright so far. but.. i think i my have missed something in the tut. just gotta review the vid again
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<ivanskie>
nope lol... at 7:59 he runs rspec again, and u can see his previous test failed, yet next one passes. even tho my code looks same to his. and his previous run has same failed test. (doesn't kill cell with 2 neighbours)
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<ivanskie>
he goes till the end of the video and says.. alright looks like we're pretty much done here and ready for Gosu..
<ivanskie>
!? what.. argh
<sevenseacat>
magic.
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<ivanskie>
i dont get it
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<ivanskie>
in the game rb... even tho the comment is # Rule #2 i looks like it revives the cell with 2 or 3 neighbours.. so should cover the 'doesnt kill cell with 2 neighbours'
<ivanskie>
yet it fails.
<ivanskie>
isn't there a better way to check the same: ([2, 3].include? world.live_neighbours_around_cell(cell).count)
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<ivanskie>
there sure is.
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<ivanskie>
oh my fault
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<ivanskie>
just found the problem
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<bambanx>
i have this error :in `initialize': failed to create WIN32OLE object from `AutoItX3.Control' (WIN32OLERuntimeError) should is copy the autoit dll on the ruby folders?
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<ivanskie>
i think [true, false].sample is not very random... in my game of life right now... it runs maybe a like 20 generations before dying and not reproducing.. with just some cells left over.. lol
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<sevenseacat>
err
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<shevy>
perhaps you wrote a virus and your cells die
<ivanskie>
lol
<ivanskie>
no it just goes too fast.
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<ivanskie>
im generating new board with key press..
<ivanskie>
and it goes through generations too fast
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<bambanx>
any help guys?
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<sevenseacat>
bambanx: with what?
<shevy>
is .sub faster than .gsub?
<bambanx>
`initialize': failed to create WIN32OLE object from `AutoItX3.Control' (WIN32OLERuntimeError) i am using this require 'win32ole'
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<ivanskie>
i think i know whats going on... it looks like its not reviving the cells that should be alive
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<ivanskie>
every round is basically just a kill off session
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<ivanskie>
shevy is spot on lol.. its not a game of life.. its a game of virus
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<sevenseacat>
lol
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<ivanskie>
all it was... a missing &
<ivanskie>
in the &&
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<ivanskie>
now that the tut is done.. i want to modify it so that i can color the cells which are going to die in next round a diff color.
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<ivanskie>
o god... i thought i had the code that did it. but i just ended up filling the screen red
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<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
are you randomly doing stuff ivanskie
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<ivanskie>
im trying to expand my ruby knowledge
<ivanskie>
so still learning
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<ivanskie>
hmm i dont think its going to work. cause there is no intermediatery step.. so one step both kills cells that should be dead.. and revives cells that should be alive.. so i can't maintain a state i'd need to change color of cells that must die next turn.
<ivanskie>
hm
<ivanskie>
previous code basically colored the cells red which used to be in play on previous turn.
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<agent_white>
ivanskie: What library are you using for graphics? :)
<ivanskie>
gosu
<agent_white>
Oh nice! How is it?
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<ivanskie>
i dont know. I've only tried it once, today, after following a tutorial. so my grasp it is only like skimmed surface
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<ivanskie>
getting started seems super easy
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<agent_white>
I'll have to check it out... seen it a few times but never got around to trying it :)
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<ivanskie>
one thing is it needs some libraries that are normally not in the system.
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<ivanskie>
the getting started guide has the only liner brew install for mac..
<ivanskie>
if on mac.. and other os.
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<shevy>
ivanskie well you got it to work already
<shevy>
so you are ahead of 30% of the people who gave it a try ever
<ivanskie>
i can't take that credit, shevy. i was following a tutorial.
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
I can use Time to calculate right
<shevy>
like Time.now + 500 # 500 being seconds
<hanmac1>
shevy: i am in a good mood since weekend because i got a new manga i wanted in german ;P
<shevy>
in german
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<shevy>
so you are not hardcore enough
<shevy>
real men watch it in japanese
<shevy>
and make up the dialogue as they go
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<hanmac1>
shevy: manga VS Anime (Manga are the books not the movies)
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<joonty>
yo
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<bambanx>
how i can capturethe key press of the keyboard in ruby using autoitx3 ?
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<shevy>
hanmac1 aha
elaptics is now known as elaptics`away
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<shevy>
does ?= or =? exist ?
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<shevy>
strftime('%H:%M:%S')
<shevy>
hanmac1 if it is a cartoon, have you not finished with it in one hour or less?
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<nrsk>
hi all! I have a problem with comparing passwords. I have encrypted password and trying to get encryptor class to encrypt new_password( to compare with old). I am doing next: Devise::Encryptors.const_get(Devise.encryptor.to_s.classify), but Device.encryptor here is nill. I have included gem 'devise', gem 'devise-encryptable' to Gemfile
<nrsk>
And uninitialized constant Devise::Encryptors as next
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<bambanx>
how i can run a script on backgrong on windows? , i made one but when i minimize the console it dont work
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<gizmore>
bambanx: i doubt that minimize has this effect
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<apeiros>
ddv: IMO acceptable. I mean he didn't insult bambanx. "reinforcing expletive"? :)
<apeiros>
at least I see no reason to tone police as long as people aren't jumping each other's throats
* apeiros
hungry :-S
<shevy>
yay!
<shevy>
wasamasa allowed new words!
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<ddv>
apeiros: I'm your moral compass
<shevy>
apeiros: I am the cat in your house
<wasamasa>
no, I did point out that he has already a fine piece of software running allowing him to do what he seeks for
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<wasamasa>
adding ruby to the mix is foolish at best
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<Tomasso>
I did many attemps to load data using rest client , http connection, mechanize, and I fail to connect and get output from an https server, I get the error "/ssl_reuse.rb:70:in `connect': Connection reset by peer - SSL_connect (Errno::ECONNRESET)" I tried setting to SSLv3, to :TLS... nothing works .. but in the browser it loads all the data. what is the browser doing that my ruby requests are not doing? I also try setting a user ag
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<Tomasso>
there seems no solution on the internet neither..
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<ddv>
Tomasso: first of all don't use sslv3 because of the poodle attack and secondly ECONNRESET is a networking problem
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<ddv>
Tomasso: are you using the correct port, is there a firewall in the way etc
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<workmad3>
Tomasso: basically, show us the code you're using :)
<workmad3>
Tomasso: and let us know if there's anything like an https proxy in the way of your outbound network
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<brahman>
Hi, Is Config a reserved class/module name in ruby? I have a module named Config and I am getting a warning: Use RbConfig instead of obsolete and deprecated Config
<workmad3>
brahman: it used to be
<workmad3>
brahman: it's suggested that you namespace things though, so ideally you should use 'BrahmansAwesomeThing::Config' inside your codebase :)
<brahman>
workmad3: Hi, Yeah I was namespacing it. Perhaps I had a typo.
<yxhuvud>
I'm not certain it should be considered reserved, but it certainly is in *use*, as you saw.
<brahman>
I renamed it to Conf
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<brahman>
The offending line was: @conf = Brahman::Config.read(@conf_file)
<workmad3>
yxhuvud: ah, good point... 'reserved' is too strong... the RbConfig system (used for building native extensions) used to steal Config
<workmad3>
catphish_: you're getting it because the remote cert failed verification, i.e. the certificate chain you get back doesn't resolve back to a certificate in your local CA trusted certificates store
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<workmad3>
catphish_: ooh... or maybe it's because the CN of the certificate is secure.viaduct.io, not webpush.viaduct.io
<catphish_>
workmad3: i think it might be the latter problem, but i'm unsure how to resolve it
<workmad3>
catphish_: the cert is using the DNS Name field of the Subject Alternative Name extension to list the wildcard...
<catphish_>
because i'm certain the certificate chain is good
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<Timgauthier>
then check the certificate chain
<Timgauthier>
the area you are most certian, is where the error usually lies. self delusion is strong in humans
<catphish_>
workmad3: and is that ok, or a problem?
<Timgauthier>
its a possible security issue
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<workmad3>
catphish_: it's a fairly new way of specifying alternative names, I believe
<Timgauthier>
from my limited understanding
<Timgauthier>
oh?
<catphish_>
workmad3: what's the other way? (i thought there was only one type of SAN field)
<workmad3>
(weirdly, I tried it on my machine and it picked up the right cert store...)
<catphish_>
so it would seem, though i'm ok with secure defaults that don't make too many assumptions
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<workmad3>
could easily depend on how openssl was compiled though
<catphish_>
if i make my own security context, i don't necessarily wanting it accepting other people's CAs :)
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<workmad3>
catphish_: a lot of the time, openssl's defaults aren't secure though :( just weird
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<catphish_>
yes, i've found this only failed on some machines though, which is the insane part
<catphish_>
and i can't find any pattern to it
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<workmad3>
catphish_: well, if it helps you for info, it worked for me with openssl1.1.0k compiled with homebrew on yosemite, and ruby 2.1.5 compiled with ruby-install and dynamically linked to openssl
<workmad3>
*1.0.1k
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<catphish_>
interesting
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<workmad3>
catphish_: oh, and I have the openssl-ca-certificates package installed via homebrew too
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<catphish_>
i've seen it fail on both linux and os x
<catphish_>
i don't know what version of openssl i'm actually running, i seem to have a different version in ruby to my command line openssl binary
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<ddv>
recompile your ruby
<catphish_>
"openssl version" => OpenSSL 1.0.1f 6 Jan 2014
<catphish_>
OpenSSL::VERSION => 1.1.0
<ddv>
so it links against your newer openssl
<catphish_>
no, ruby openssl is newer
<ddv>
ok
<catphish_>
maybe rvm installed one
<ddv>
did you do rvm pkg install openssl?
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<catphish_>
not that i recall
<catphish_>
it's not important anyway
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<ddd>
rvm doesn't install one unless you rvm pkg install openssl. otherwise it uses the version installed on the system
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<ddd>
now, if you installed one of the binary ruby pkgs (which rvm defaults to) it will be built against whatever was on the system that built it. if you need to ensure that what you run is what rvm runs then you need to set --no-binary
<jheg>
are the enumerable methods find and detect exactly the same?
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<Xnfu>
I don't think there would be two methods that are exactly the same :D
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<GeorgesLeYeti>
Hi
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<jheg>
Xnfu: I suppose they have diff names :)
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<jheg>
but the definition on ruby dics is exactly the same for each of them
<jheg>
ha bad typo
<jheg>
*ruby docs
<bhaak>
find is shorter. it's obviously superior to detect
<crome>
RUBY DICKS
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<crome>
I mean
<crome>
er
<GeorgesLeYeti>
I want to get the content type of a file. Someone told me that he use: File.open(path).content_type. But when i try it too it returns: NoMethodError: undefined method `content_type' for #<File: ... >
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<bhaak>
jheg: you can answer your own question if you press the "click to toggle source" link on both methods (hint: the answer is yes)
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<jheg>
GeorgesLeYeti: .extname ?
<Xnfu>
I was just looking at the code
<hanmac1>
GeorgesLeYeti: ruby itself does not know about content types
<Xnfu>
:D it's the same
<jheg>
bhaak: thanks for the tip bhaak
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<crome>
GeorgesLeYeti: I'm sure you have put "ruby file type" in google, clicked on the first result on ruby-doc.org, which is the documentation of the File class and it was just by accident you skipped the ftype method: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.5/File.html#method-c-ftype
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<crome>
or did you mean mime type?
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<Xnfu>
GeorgesLeYeti: You can also use the ruby-filemagic gem
<Xnfu>
If you just want the mime type and you are on a linux OS, just use 'file --mime -b file.ext'
<GeorgesLeYeti>
Ok ty for your awnsers. I was more looking after the mime type
<crome>
you can use gems for that
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<Xnfu>
filemagic should also be able to give you the mime type
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<GeorgesLeYeti>
ok ty i ll look at filemagic then
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<agent_white>
If you're on linux, I wouldn't shell out or use a gem. Just make your own method for checking the mime type. Just read in /etc/mime.types into an object.
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<F__i__L>
hey guyzz.. if you have a method that accepts many arguments.. you use a hash for that, right ?
<apeiros>
that's one way, yes
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<F__i__L>
the thing is: would you prefer the old way, that is 1 argument that is like method(opts = {}) or keyword arguments ?
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<apeiros>
I prefer keyword args. but I'm still gathering experience.
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<apeiros>
also, keyword args makes your gem/app require ruby 2.1+
<bradland>
F__i__L: the nice thing about keyword arguments is you don’t have to go through and extract your options from a hash. they’re just there
<apeiros>
the other nice thing is that you get exceptions for unknown options
<bradland>
my Captain Obvious count is ++1 for the day
<DefV>
apeiros: I don't mind new ruby libraries / applications to require at least 2.1
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<apeiros>
DefV: I don't mind either. but there's things like apt which lag behind for ages.
<apeiros>
and apt users then tend to mind :)
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<bradland>
speaking of apt, what’s the current status on ruby from apt packages
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<bradland>
ages ago, the Debian ones were at odds with rubygems
<ddv>
2.1 is old already
<bradland>
as in, if you were to install ruby from apt, you needed to get your gems from apt as well, or you were asking for trouble
<bradland>
is that still the case?
<workmad3>
bradland: slightly improved, in that 'ruby-full' now exists as a package that sets up a mostly-sane dev env for your machine
<ddv>
use chruby
<workmad3>
bradland: but it's still generally better to use ruby-install, ruby-build or rbenv
<workmad3>
or something like the brightbox ruby PPA
<bradland>
workmad3: yeah, my current build scripots use ruby-install
<bradland>
on servers
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<bradland>
so the brightbox PPAs are still kickin’ it?
<bradland>
nice
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<bradland>
if you install from brightbox PPA, what’s the rubygems situation?
<workmad3>
bradland: yeah, I wrote some chef resources to use ruby-install and then expose all the relevant env-info via the resource :)
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<bradland>
installing through `gem install` works reliably?
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<ddv>
I use salt to provision docker images
<bradland>
i’d love to go binary distribution
<bradland>
i don’t use ruby switchers on servers, and i don’t (yet) use docker
<workmad3>
bradland: I just know some people use the brightbox PPA, not used it myself
<bradland>
k, cool
<bradland>
thx for the feedback on the apt situation
<workmad3>
and yeah... no chruby or other on my servers either :)
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<workmad3>
my preferred situation would be to have a build-server create something along the lines of an omnibus install of my ruby apps to install via an in-house apt repo
<workmad3>
but I've not got the time to bottom that out atm :(
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<bradland>
good lawd, that sure does sound nice
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<waxjar>
how would you name a method that returned the number of seconds a user has been idle?
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<workmad3>
waxjar: idle_time? :)
<workmad3>
waxjar: preferrably on a User object
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<bradland>
i’m literal: idle_seconds
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<workmad3>
I could get on board with 'ide_seconds'... I'd also be tempted to add in a method 'idle_since' that returned a Time :)
<bradland>
our app is a reverse auction procurement tool (no, not like those dumb retail reverse auction sites), and naming anything _time leads to lots of documentation lookups for questions like “hrm, was that seconds or minutes"
<workmad3>
but that would depend on what you're using this info for
<bradland>
indeed
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<bradland>
that’s exactly how we implement “foo_since” with wrapper methods for calculation of things like foo_seconds
<workmad3>
bradland: I'm not sure I could ever convince myself that returning minutes was sensible :)
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<waxjar>
ah, returning a Time object is pretty neat
<bradland>
haha, touché :)
<waxjar>
it's for an irc client, to get the idle time of a irc user
<dllama>
morning
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<bradland>
‘morning
<dllama>
how goes? thanks for all the help yesterday!
<dllama>
making some good progress with watir :)
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<F__i__L>
how can I have a method in a ruby class instance that counts the number of its class instances? Of course I will not go with ruby class variables since I want child classes to count from zero. but how would you do it ? instance variable in the instance's class ?
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<bradland>
F__i__L: each instance of a class has no knowledge of the other unless you’re using a singleton pattern.
<apeiros>
F__i__L: yes, ivar in the class
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<apeiros>
F__i__L: make sure you initialize the ivar properly when your class is subclassed
<apeiros>
(see self.inherited)
<minasmazar>
hi dudes. Can anyone give me a little help? I have a problem with the ruby implementation of Mandrill API (i.e. the mandrill-api gem)
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<waxjar>
F__i__L: note that if you hold them all in an instance variable, they will never be garbage collected!
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<apeiros>
waxjar: he said *count* :)
<waxjar>
you could hold them in WeakRefs or use ObjectSpace to get around that
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<waxjar>
ah, i see
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<avril14th>
How does one duplicate an array and all its items?
<workmad3>
F__i__L: of more relevance would be the note that your count would be a count of the number of instances created, not the number of extant instances :)
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<dllama>
i'm using watir to simulate a browser and open a page, i get to where i need to go, but on that last page, i need to click a link which opens a popup and then get the details of that popup. everything is good up until we get to the popup. have no idea how to check if it opened or not :/
<workmad3>
avril14th: ary.map(&:dup) could do it ;)
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<F__i__L>
what's the difference ?
<workmad3>
avril14th: or &:clone if you needed to call .clone instead of dup
<avril14th>
workmad3: right, but I need to dup the array too
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<F__i__L>
aa extant you said
<workmad3>
avril14th: .map would create a new array
<workmad3>
avril14th: i.e. duplicate it
<avril14th>
right
<apeiros>
avril14th: if you think you need deep copy, you probably should add more proper classes with their own initialize_copy instead of using primitives.
<F__i__L>
ok but I still haven't figured out how can I essentially have a ruby class variable which is not accessible from child classes
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<avril14th>
thx workmad3
<workmad3>
F__i__L: you just use an instance variable in a class method...
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<apeiros>
F__i__L: class Foo; @count = 0; class << self; attr_accessor :count; end; end
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<apeiros>
and then Foo.count += 1
<avril14th>
apeiros: let me fix the lgoci first, I'll add proper stuffs later on :)
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<F__i__L>
apeiros thanks!
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<workmad3>
apeiros: that doesn't preserve the initialised value in subclasses (which I know you know, but worth pointing out for F__i__L's benefit)
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<bradland>
minasmazar: i’m sorry, i have no idea why i pasted that to you. meant for another user in another channel.
<apeiros>
workmad3: 15:45 apeiros: F__i__L: make sure you initialize the ivar properly when your class is subclassed
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<apeiros>
workmad3: 15:46 apeiros: (see self.inherited)
<workmad3>
apeiros: :)
<F__i__L>
ok!
* apeiros
precog
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<workmad3>
apeiros: ok... worth pointing out *again* :P
<pontiki>
more like recog
<workmad3>
(seeing as it had already also been pointed out you could just use an ivar at the class level too... :) )
<apeiros>
pontiki: give back my p!
<bradland>
minasmazar: if you post your question, someone might be able to help you
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<pontiki>
i will refrain from the obvious response
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<apeiros>
pontiki is in pun-itive mood today…
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<Macaveli>
Can I ask activerecord questions here or beter in #rubyonrails
<apeiros>
better in #rails, yes
<pontiki>
as a certified paranomasiac, i'm always pun-ishing
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<minasmazar>
bradland: Using mandrill-api gem I can't add attachments file to emails. The mail arrives to Mandrill and it forwards it correctly. But without attachments.
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<minasmazar>
I inpected the hash params i send to Mandrill and it seems to be ok
<bradland>
can you gist your code?
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<bradland>
minasmazar: based on the API docs, it looks like you have to send the file as a base64 encoded string.
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<minasmazar_>
and i do it :)
<bradland>
and there’s an overall attachment size limit of 25 MB
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<bradland>
where are you getting the contents of your file?
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<bradland>
I would use IO::binread for this purpose, btw
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<bradland>
if the file is being read from the filesystem
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<minasmazar_>
bradland: it's a plain/text. the content is passed as base64 encoded string. btw maybe found the epic fail :D i must test now
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<ddv>
I have done absolutely nothing today....
<ddv>
:)
<pontiki>
well done!
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<apeiros>
I hunted a bug in our app and/or rails and didn't see a silver line yet (connection leak when switching from 3.2 to 4.1)
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<bradland>
apeiros: “silver line yet”. is that a reference to a monitoring tool graph?
<apeiros>
bradland: no
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<apeiros>
means I have not figured out anything about the bug and I'm running out of options
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<bradland>
bleh. sorry to hear that :\
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<apeiros>
well, new day, new luck. maybe I'll find it tomorrow.
<apeiros>
worst thing is - we can't reproduce it in the staging area.
<pontiki>
what's a connection leak?
<apeiros>
otherwise I'd have a couple of ideas on isolating the bug
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<apeiros>
pontiki: means the app acquires more and more connections until it can't create new connection
<bradland>
ugh. non-reproducible bugs are the worst.
<F__i__L>
I am not sure if I follow.. what should I watch out ? isn't the @storage accessible in a child class through self.superclass.class.storage ?
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<bradland>
minasmazar_: this might be a silly question, but the Mandrill documentation provides an example where all hash keys are strings, not symbols.
<bradland>
are you certain this is supported (I don’t know if you’re working within rails with indifferent access available)
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<ericwood>
I feel like it's not nested deeply enough
* cphrmky
agrees with havenwood
<bradland>
needs moar factory
<ericwood>
that's some java shit right thar
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<Xnfu>
lol
<F__i__L>
havenwood yeah it's java haha indeed I had the same feeling
<brahman>
Am writing a module to organise all by basic methods. I am naming it Project::Base. In my class Project I am extending Project::Base, this fails with class:Project uninitialized constant Project::Base NameError
<F__i__L>
it's created by a java guy, I am just refactoring atm
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<brahman>
scratch that I sorted it, typo
<ericwood>
lol called it
<minasmazar_>
bradland: yeah i noticed. All my hash keys are symbols, but the mail arrives to destination, and it's ok but without attachments. anyway i'll try all strings
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<brahman>
actually could someone check http://pastebin.com/Q90VaPFu to confirm this is not a stupid way to organise code?
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<havenwood>
brahman: how about just?: puts "Hello World!"
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<havenwood>
:P
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<havenwood>
ohhhh, it's nat'l complicated code day
<brahman>
havenwood: I am not actually using a class/module to puts. I was using the example as an example
<brahman>
Ideally I store all my methods Project::Base module for reuse in the main Project class. Am I not understanding modules correctly?
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<havenwood>
brahman: I'm not sure I follow the purpose. Why not just have your Project methods in the Project class?
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<havenwood>
brahman: Simple is good.
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<F__i__L>
havenwood now that you noticed the whole java structure.. I had the same question: I am not very familiar with design patterns but I think he uses the adapter pattern (or repository pattern as described here http://hawkins.io/2013/10/implementing_the_repository_pattern/) in the following way: he has 2 gems rubycas-server-core and an adapter gem say, rubycas-server-activemodel. In the core gem he defines a RubyCAS::Server::Core where the
<brahman>
havenwood: I want to organise the project in multiple files for ease of maintaining and code reuse
<F__i__L>
core methods are. Then these methods call classes defined in RubyCAS::Server::Core::Tickets but these exist only if you include in the Gemfile an adapter gem and include the files.
<F__i__L>
ideally what I would like to do is to "inject" the adapter in the core somehow.. but the thing is that the adapter can have many classes. How can I do that ?
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<F__i__L>
for instance there is a method generate_login_ticket(x).. this method calls the underlying storage method LoginTicket.create!(x) which is implemented by the adaptor that you include.. but there is also other classes too..
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<F__i__L>
should I "inject" all the adaptor's classes in the core? and by "inject" I mean pass the classes as argument on core's initializer and store them in an instance variable somewhere
<elfuego>
is there an atom plugin to match code blocks in the atom editor e.g. matching do and end statements
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<treehau55>
hi
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<Cat_1>
hello
<minasmazar_>
brahman: nope. tried with all symbols and all strings. nothing changes. the email arrives correctly but without attachments. Maybe this is a limitation of free pricing ? :s
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<minasmazar_>
bradland: nope. tried with all symbols and all strings. nothing changes. the email arrives correctly but without attachments. Maybe this is a limitation of free pricing ? :s
<zalmoxes>
anyone have a good template for a dockerfile to bundle ruby apps? i get issues with bundle install
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<treehau55>
suppose I have a class that has singleton methods, and a factory method for building new instances. The singleton will contain metadata about the instances, -- for example time since the instances accessed some data. Right now I am having trouble coding this up properly, as I set the time_last_accessed field to DateTime.now.
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<treehau55>
and in typing this question I just realized it may be due to mutable state over concurrent workers
<treehau55>
workmad3: yes and I am using jruby too so I have to be extra careful
<workmad3>
treehau55: :D
<treehau55>
sometimes I miss the GIL
<shevy>
I hate bugs
<treehau55>
jhass: I haven't heard of that
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<treehau55>
shevy: I love bugs. Bugs are a majority of the reason most of us are employed ;)
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<jhass>
just some convenience stuff that wraps a Mutex and a ConditionVariable ;)
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<shevy>
treehau55 well that is an economic incentive; I see it from an engineering and kaizen philosophy though
<shevy>
they steal my time :(
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<treehau55>
dc'd
<jhass>
nothing missed
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<ddv>
this is why you should always make code as complex and hard to understand as possible
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<treehau55>
jhass: monitor mixin seems to be for whole objects or modules, I just need a particular field no? Or does it work for that case as well
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<jhass>
ruby is pretty manual on that
<jhass>
you call synchronize where you want exclusive access
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<jhass>
how you map Mutexes to variables or objects is your business
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<treehau55>
okay
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<agent_white>
I... I just want to fork everything.
<treehau55>
jhass: so if I just create an instance of Mutex where I initialize my singleton, then use that lock from then on to modify my time field -- sound ok? ( <-- ruby concurrency newbie)
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<arup_r>
ddv: Hi
<jhass>
treehau55: very hard to tell without knowing the codebase. But doesn't sound entirely wrong
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<ddv>
arup_r, hi
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<bashusr>
hi all, i'm using rspec output matcher to catch stdout and make some assertions... i had it working in 1 project, but then i copied the code to a 2nd project and now stdout is not properly being caught but it is showing up in the specs console out and the tests are failing... any ideas on what might have went wrong in the copy/paste or how this error could occur?
<kennym_>
this is the fingerprint - can anyone interpret if this is still running
<kennym_>
?
<centrx>
kennym_, If everything's working properly, that means it's still running
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<kennym_>
centrx: thank you
<centrx>
kennym_, When a job ends with Delayed Job, it is either deleted from the table (success), or fails and the "failed_at" column would not be nil
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<kennym_>
centrx: is attempts raised by 1?
<kennym_>
`attempts`
<centrx>
oh right, yeah, there's that aspect too
<kennym_>
if it failed
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<centrx>
yes
<kennym_>
thank you, that helps a lot centrx
<centrx>
locked_at != nil means it started (otherwise not started yet but waiting in the queue)
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<kennym_>
centrx: if by any means the heroku worker process was sent a SIGTERM would DelayedJob modify the record somehow?
<kennym_>
centrx: so I can see that it's still running
<kennym_>
or not
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<centrx>
I forget, test it out!
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<kennym_>
centrx: ok, thanks so much for your help
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<Cat_1>
I have a string "/blah/12.24.0-environment/"
<Cat_1>
what's the best way to extract the 12.24.0 with a regex and put it in a variable?
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<apeiros>
str[/\d+\.\d+\.\d+/]
<wallerdev>
>> var = "/blah/12.24.0-environment/"[/\/(.*?)-environment/, 1]
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<kbarry>
I have several newb qurestions. 1) Can i put multiple modules in a single file?
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<apeiros>
kbarry: yes. but convention is 1 file = 1 module or class
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<kbarry>
OK, and I am guessing the convention stipulates the fileanemmatches the modulename/namespace?
<kbarry>
(i am new, but assumingt hat the modules name IS the namespace?)
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<apeiros>
yes
<apeiros>
class names too
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<dllama>
i actually meant to paste this here but pasted it into #rubyonrails, difference in html parsing time between using watir's native parsing and nokogiri
<dllama>
full transaction from opening up the page, entering info and scraping it with watir:
<dllama>
:req_duration=>10.050043131,
<dllama>
:process_duration=>30.628717546
<dllama>
same exact transaction, but instead of using watir's parsing, i used nokogiri
<dllama>
:req_duration=>7.22895902,
<dllama>
:process_duration=>7.230111496
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<dllama>
it was pointed out to me that nokogiri has recently received some major performance upgrades, where as watir's last update is over a year old, but the #'s are pretty crazy, from 20 sec down to .015sec
<gizmore>
thank you for your update, unknown nokogiri dev! *kiddings* ;)
<dllama>
i like being unknown :)
<gizmore>
:D
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<pipework>
I didn't know people were even using watir anymore.
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<uptownhr>
using rspec to test for an exception using .to raise_error
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<uptownhr>
but when i raise an error, it doesn’t catch it
<uptownhr>
just errors out
<uptownhr>
is this how it’s supposed to be?
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<uptownhr>
how can i test for this?
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<jhass>
I think if you specify nothing it only catches StandardError
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<jhass>
do you raise something above StandardError? if so, you shouldn't
<pipework>
Pass a block, the one block variable is the exception itself. You can make assertions on it in the block.
<jhass>
if it's a custom exception, make sure to subclass StandardError
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<uptownhr>
i just have a method
<uptownhr>
def testing
<uptownhr>
p 'hello'
<uptownhr>
raise Exception
<uptownhr>
end
<uptownhr>
that’s all it does
<uptownhr>
and i’m testing with ,expect(testing).to raise_erro
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<uptownhr>
raise_error
<jhass>
Exception is not a subclass of StandardError
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<jhass>
StandardError is a subclass of Exception
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<uptownhr>
jhass: sorry, so raise Exception?
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<revw>
anyone know of a good way to escape a shell command in ruby? I have tried shellwords and the escape gem, but it seems atleast one of the two are escaping wrong
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<eam>
shellwords should do it but it's best to avoid escaping entirely
<powersurge>
I asked in #rspec but I thought I'd ask here too, is there any way in rspec to say that you want to test that an array has and only has a certain set of things?
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<eam>
revw: do you have a specific example?
<revw>
eam: I am attempting to sanitize a command input
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<powersurge>
currently I'm doing expect(hash.keys).to include(*whitelisted_keys); expect(hash.keys.length).to eq(known_number_of_whitelist)
<revw>
eam: yeah one second I will throw some stuff on pastebin
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<eam>
provider posix is what you want
<revw>
fuck
<revw>
you are right
* revw
forgot
<eam>
if you tokenize on whitespace yourself you'll get wrong args if files contain spaces, but there's no possibility that other metachars will screw you
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<revw>
starting to wonder what problem I am trying to solve
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<revw>
thanks eam
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
mhhh can I post an activerecord question here or it's heavily related to rubyonrails channel?
<ericwood>
I'd hit up rubyonrails
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
sigh
<centrx>
Fire-Dragon-DoL, you don't like that channel?
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
centrx: mhhh no, the problem is that depending on the time, there are a lot of newbies. Which I'm grateful to help, but they can't help me, though
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<ericwood>
ask in here and see what happens then I suppose
<centrx>
yeah ActiveRecord and ActiveSupport are both used outside of Rails a lot
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<atmosx>
centrx: I use sequel :-P
<atmosx>
AR only + rails
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
I thought about Sequel for a while
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
I'll think about it later on again
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
I would like to use named scopes to stay DRY
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<bricker>
Fire-Dragon-DoL: Nobody responded to you in #rubyonrails because there's not a great way to do what you want to do
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<bricker>
Fire-Dragon-DoL: you can make a class method on Client that returns a hash that you can pass into both your scope and your join query, that's the closest to DRY you'll get, I think
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<pipework>
Fire-Dragon-DoL: These days it's just called a scope.
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
mhhh
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
bricker: well, "there's not a great way to do that" is a valid answer for me. Usually it's the answer to most questions once you get a bit more experienced I think
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
I ask mostly for opinions, so it's also my fault, lol
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<kbarry>
Learning to work with Ruby data. I "believe" my results are a hash? http://pastebin.com/kjjx3BxS If so, I think I am unclear as to the syntax to retrieve the value of the item(s) in the hash.
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<centrx>
Fire-Dragon-DoL, .pluck(:id) => .ids
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<centrx>
Fire-Dragon-DoL, but getting actual ids is not necessary, it will be used as a subquery: .where(client_id: Client.actives)
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<pjaspers>
Fire-Dragon-DoL: You could set a scope on user that referenced the other scope
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
pjaspers: I'm not sure what you mean
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
centrx: true, but the pluck helped me think "I want the id only in a `IN()` thing", nothing special
<jhass>
do it like me and copy paste that
<kbarry>
Yes,
<shevy>
off-topic - does one of you know of an in-browser editor? I need to edit my ruby .cgi scripts "live", on localhost
<kbarry>
ohh,
<jhass>
kbarry: or define a nice name for it in your query
<jhass>
like AS count
<kbarry>
jhass: you mean ':"count(*)"' (Everything between the '
<jhass>
sure?!
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
shevy: no chance to do it in ssh?
<shevy>
Fire-Dragon-DoL hmm no I mean if I do it in ssh, I need the commandline, and my current workflow already uses the commandline; if I could however work directly in the browser, I could eliminate one additional step
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<shevy>
Fire-Dragon-DoL it's a bit like a wiki what I have, just not in .php :D
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
pjaspers: mhhh, my wish is NOT to use the `where.not(access_token: nil, instance_url: nil)`, something more like joins(:client).connectable & Client.actives (and where I can find docs for that `&` syntax!)
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<pjaspers>
Fire-Dragon-DoL: the & is a merge for scopes
<whatasunnyday>
Does anyone have much experience with grape? I'm a bit confused why a method defined under a class that inherits from Grape::API is throwing a undefined method error. Here's an example: https://gist.github.com/whatasunnyday/1f480ecead3241a1e453
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<whatasunnyday>
Also, if anyone has some feedback if I should be doing it differently (like creating a error formatter), I'm all ears.
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<atmosx>
waxjar: yeah fuse based SSH FS works quite well
<atmosx>
waxjar: but there are many tools on mac (even pre-installed like finder) which will let you browse any ftpd/sshd server like if it was a local dir.
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
pjaspers: good suggestions
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<waxjar>
atmosx: finder does this? :o
<ericwood>
sshfs is terrifying
<atmosx>
waxjar: yes
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
pjaspers: the subquery one is good too, thanks a lot
<jhass>
whatasunnyday: no experience with grape. Judging from the ruby the block passed o rescue_from is _not_ instance evaled, so normal method lookup applies and your custom_error method should be a singleton one
<whatasunnyday>
jhass, oh interesting. i didn't realize that. thanks.
<jhass>
kbarry: you have on combination left ;)
<waxjar>
atmosx: seems like that doesn't use ssh tho?
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<atmosx>
waxjar: you need fuse for ssh.
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<kbarry>
jhass: huh? how do I turn combination off?
<atmosx>
waxjar: macports => sshfs
<jhass>
kbarry: combination to try out
<atmosx>
then you can do anything ;-)
<waxjar>
ah yea, thats what i had before :)
<atmosx>
waxjar: I had a couple of zsh aliases to open remote directories :-P
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<whatasunnyday>
jhass, although you've fixed my problem, i'm a bit confused about how method lookup works now. does rescue_from look at the context in which its defined (probably grape::api) and since I inherit from it, i'm not in the ancestory?
<kbarry>
jhass: I can think of a few more.
<kbarry>
inside '
<kbarry>
inside "
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<jhass>
kbarry: you have an Array ([]) that contains as its only item a Hash ({}). You access array items with Array#[] which takes positional arguments. You Hash has a single key, :count. You access Hash values through their key with Hash#[]
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<kbarry>
AHHHH
<kbarry>
cursor[0]["count"]
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<atmosx>
kbarry: bingo
<kbarry>
well, i guess i was pretty close.
<jhass>
whatasunnyday: you pass a block to rescue_from. blocks closure the scope they're defined in, that includes self. Since method lookup is bound to self if there's no explicit receiver, it happens on the class level self
<kbarry>
it was actually cursor[0][:count]
<kbarry>
Thanks for the clarifications.
<atmosx>
kbarry: the coursor[0] should had been a good hint :-P
<atmosx>
bbl
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<kbarry>
I'm new enough to ruby that hash/array identification was only a moment ago fully grasped.
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<whatasunnyday>
jhass, slowly processing what that means but thank you very much for your time.
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<uptownhr>
using rspec 3.1.7
<uptownhr>
but comparison operators are not working
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<uptownhr>
expect(trx.raw_response.length).to be > 0
<uptownhr>
getting ‘>’ undefined method for NilClass
<jhass>
which docs did you get that example from?
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<wallerdev>
looks fine to me
<bricker>
uptownhr: looks like 'length' is nil
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<wallerdev>
maybe length is nil
<uptownhr>
hmm
<uptownhr>
maybe
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<jhass>
ugh, why would a .length return nil
<jhass>
what a silly API
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<uptownhr>
should the operator always be available since it’s an expect to method?
<uptownhr>
wow
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<uptownhr>
.to be is broken no?
<wallerdev>
be is a variable isnt it? i thinkt hats how it works
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<uptownhr>
why this it depend on the value that is being expected?
<uptownhr>
expect(var).to be > 0
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<uptownhr>
that sttatement should always run regardless of the var no?
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<wallerdev>
it does run
<wallerdev>
but if be is nil it cant call nil.>(0)
<wallerdev>
since nil doesnt define that
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<uptownhr>
yea i understand why its happening
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<uptownhr>
but it couldhave been done better
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<uptownhr>
so it fails the on the expect
<uptownhr>
not a parse error
<wallerdev>
its not a parse error lol
<uptownhr>
it is
<bricker>
uptownhr: I disagree
<wallerdev>
its an undefined method error
<uptownhr>
yea
<uptownhr>
meaning the expect statement was not able to run
<wallerdev>
nothing to do with the parser
<uptownhr>
the test didn’t get to execute
<bricker>
you're asking Ruby to determine if nil is greater than 0
<bricker>
or Rspec
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<uptownhr>
at this point
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<uptownhr>
i see it as i’m asking rspec to determine if nil is greater than 0
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<uptownhr>
not ruby
<bricker>
uptownhr: if you had a similar expectation in your production code, what would you expect to happen?
<uptownhr>
my point is, that rspec should handle this
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<bricker>
uptownhr: submit a PR and see if they agree :)
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<uptownhr>
lol
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<bricker>
uptownhr: what?
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<uptownhr>
all i’m checking for right now is that the expected var/obj/etc… is greater than 0
<uptownhr>
if it is not, it should fail
<bricker>
uptownhr: so you're saying rspec should see what you're comparing it to, and then go back and cast your value to that type?
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<bricker>
uptownhr: either fix that .length API or tack .to_i onto it
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<wallerdev>
it cant determine if nil is greater than 0 though
<uptownhr>
i’m saying, rspec should either catch or handle undefined methods ....
<uptownhr>
why not?
<waxjar>
uptownhr: it does fail, now it just gives you a little bit of context with it
<wallerdev>
theres no definition of a comparison between nil and 0
<bricker>
uptownhr: and do what?
<uptownhr>
nil is not greater than 0
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<uptownhr>
is nil greater than 0?
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<bricker>
uptownhr: no, they are two different things
<centrx>
mu
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<bricker>
uptownhr: is 0 greater than an apple?
<uptownhr>
so it should fail then
<wallerdev>
is it less than 0? is it equal to 0? its like asking if chocolate is greater than 0
<uptownhr>
that is my point
<wallerdev>
theyre not comparable, thats why its not defined
<bricker>
uptownhr: fail *with what*
<uptownhr>
it should fail the expect test
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<uptownhr>
that it didn’t get what it wanted
<uptownhr>
instead of throwing an error
<centrx>
in PHP it is
<waxjar>
uptownhr: if it just printed a pretty little F, you wouldn't know why it failed
<waxjar>
now you know
<waxjar>
what is the problem?
<bricker>
uptownhr: eh. I think that's just fundamentally incorrect. If you type a syntax error, you want your test to just say "expectation wasn't met."
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<wallerdev>
its not a syntax error
<wallerdev>
stop saying that lol
<bricker>
wallerdev: I didn't, I was using it as an example
<wallerdev>
and i dont think theres any test suite that would say expectation not met when you type a syntax error, it cant create a parse tree with syntax errors :/
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<shevy>
chocolate is greater than 0
<bricker>
I know, I'm pointing out why his logic is flawed
<bricker>
wallerdev: ^
<wallerdev>
lol
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<uptownhr>
i see .
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<johnnyrichard>
/quit
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<ericwood>
irc is hard
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<constantlurking>
guys i have a question
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<jhass>
oh no!
<ericwood>
hide hide hide
<constantlurking>
complete noob lol
<jhass>
ericwood: go away, this is my place
* havenwood
tries to look inconspicuous
<ericwood>
constantlurking: okay whatya got
<constantlurking>
in what instance do you have to use #{} i know that in a loop you have to use #{i} , and I've seen other examples
<constantlurking>
I'm doing the ruby course on codecademy
<jhass>
uh
<ericwood>
#{} is for interpolation in a string
<ericwood>
for example:
<jhass>
continue doing so or maybe redo the part of for #{}
<bradland>
constantlurking: the purpose of #{} is called string interpolation. it allows you to place variables and other expressions inside a double-quoted string, so that you don’t have to use concatenation.
<jhass>
bradland: I said it's a broad question!
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<ericwood>
constantlurking: yeah the interpolation there just is a nicer way of concatenating all of those strings
<bradland>
constantlurking: it doesn’t have anything to do with loops
<ericwood>
it could also be puts greeting + ', ' + bro + '!'
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<constantlurking>
ok i see, because i learned javascript first and i always try to relate it to what i already know and i don't think theres a similar concept in javascript
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<bradland>
yeah, javascript doesn’t provide string interpolation, which is one reason i really dislike writing javascript code
<bradland>
also note that `print` in ruby doesn’t include a newline
<bradland>
`puts` does, however
<ericwood>
I wish JS had interpolation :(
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<bricker>
ericwood: maybe you'll like coffeescript *shrug*
<ericwood>
bricker: eh I don't, oddly enough
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<ericwood>
btw anyone in NY hiring full stack rails people like myself
<ericwood>
asking for a friend
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<ericwood>
please hire me please
<bradland>
awkward silence
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<ericwood>
:'(
<shevy>
we just pretend it never happened
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<eam>
move to SF!
<IceDragon>
HI
<IceDragon>
caps lock
<shevy>
IceDragon, engage Fire-Dragon-DoL!
<IceDragon>
;D
<ericwood>
eam: I love SF but I don't want to live there...plus GF just moved to NYC
<IceDragon>
I dun wunna
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<bradland>
our lead dev (also a shareholder) is in NY
* IceDragon
hides
<bradland>
he’s way downtown
<bradland>
east village, i think
<ericwood>
that's pretty much where I'm looking to live :o
<constantlurking>
ok i think i get it
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<bradland>
he loves it down there
<bradland>
oh snap, eric. you work at Spiceworks?
<ericwood>
yeah!
<bradland>
damn dude
<ericwood>
I run this place
<constantlurking>
in this code ---> https://eval.in/241498 could i just write print i instead of print #{i}
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<bradland>
nice haha :)
<eam>
constantlurking: yes
<ericwood>
bricker: you familiar?
<bradland>
i went digging one time, trying to replicate how you guys do a rails app that runs as an exe
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<ericwood>
lol oh god
<ericwood>
let me just say I never want to do anything with that ever
<shevy>
constantlurking yeah. you only need #{} in a string usually, or like in a // regex
<bradland>
had a client for whom we built a pretty cool educational app, and after the app had been out a year or two, they asked me if they could “sell the app” to a customer
* Fire-Dragon-DoL
looks around, dizzied, looking for the cold "thing" that wokes him up
<ericwood>
bradland: very few people here understand the black magic behind it
<bradland>
by which, they meant, “we want it to install”
<bradland>
dude
<bricker>
ericwood: with what?
<bradland>
i got pretty deep in it, and lost it
<bricker>
Spiceworks? no
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
IceDragon: I can feel you!
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
:P
<bradland>
looks like a combination of several types of dark magic
<ericwood>
it uses an encrypted FS of some sort
<bradland>
oh geeze
<ericwood>
luckily I only work on community.spiceworks.com
<ericwood>
which is a *normal* rails app
<bradland>
hrm, it was a long while ago
<bradland>
ah
<bradland>
ok, i was looking at how the community one is packaged
<bradland>
i remember being able to see the rails app files
<ericwood>
you can distribute that and they can run it if they have the JRE going
<bradland>
yeah, we had tons of deps with native extensions
<bradland>
they didn’t make it an up front requirement
<ericwood>
boooo
<bradland>
which was disappointing, because i found the jar stuff and got kind of excited
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<bradland>
man, i developed this app aaaages ago too
<ericwood>
hahaha
<bradland>
rails 1.x, i think
<ericwood>
niceeeeee
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<bradland>
first commit, nov 2008, so they would have been asking about packaging around 2010
<bradland>
fun times
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<bradland>
anywho, love the spiceworks project
<bradland>
i come from windows land
<shevy>
you make me sad
* bradland
slaps shevy with a trout
<shevy>
do you at least game on windows often?
<bradland>
i haven’t used windows as my personal desktop since some time around 2005
<bradland>
come *from* windows land
<ericwood>
I haven't touched it in ages
<bradland>
:)
<ericwood>
what's funny is that most of spiceworks is developed on macs
<bradland>
hahaha, that’s great
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<eam>
pretty sure more games were published for linux in 2014 than for windows
<eam>
kinda odd to think about that
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<shevy>
really?
<wallerdev>
that seems wrong
<eam>
android
<shevy>
I have not been following the game scenes since many years
<bradland>
meh, that’s like how iOS and Android always get in an argument about app count
<shevy>
penis size matters!
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<bradland>
i don’t count Android as Linux either :P
<eam>
but it is :)
<wallerdev>
idk i dont see much in common between android and desktop linux
<bradland>
oh, it is. but i don’t count it.
<eam>
wallerdev: really it's GL vs d3d
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<eam>
the particulars of the OS aren't as important
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<wallerdev>
maybe not from the programming side of things
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<wallerdev>
but from the consumer side of things theres a big difference haha
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<eam>
wallerdev: eh, not really
<eam>
similar platforms generally mean it's easy to support both
<eam>
the real problem now is the crazy limitations on apps on each mobile platform
<eam>
it's like we've time traveled back to the 80s
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<eam>
no more ubiquitous common systems language
<wallerdev>
the real problem is touch screen and motion gaming and the fact that no one wants to play a phone game for more than 5-10 minutes lol
<eam>
you say that but the numbers tell a different story
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<wallerdev>
are a lot of pc gamers switching to phone gaming?
<wallerdev>
ive never heard that before
<eam>
nope. But there are far more non-pc gamers than pc gamers
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<wallerdev>
does that make having an android device an alternative for people who are coming from pc gaming?
<wallerdev>
or maybe i missed the point of this conversation lol
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<eam>
I was talking about numbers (both player side and developer side)
<shellfu>
As a PC gamer I wouldn't be able to play something even older like ut99 on my phone.
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* shellfu
needs more powa!
<eam>
shellfu: why not?
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<shellfu>
The precision of a laser mouse even vs a controller for an FPS is superior
<eam>
quake3 runs fine, UT would if it wasn't crappy DX
<eam>
shellfu: so connect a mouse
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<shellfu>
yeah it would run. I guess I should have rephrased :)
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<eam>
I use a bluetooth gamepad with my phone to play games on an emulator on the train
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<eam>
works fine
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<shellfu>
I guess im a minority these days, but a nice mechanical keyboard and a laser mouse just feels right to me personally
<eam>
you can use those with a phone
<shellfu>
I never even played FPS on xbox or ps4
<shellfu>
so I missed out on halo and what not
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<wallerdev>
you realize thats defeating the whole purpose of a phone right?
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<eam>
wallerdev: what is?
<wallerdev>
youre not gonna carry a mouse and keyboard in your pocket with your phone
<wallerdev>
lol
<eam>
why not?
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<wallerdev>
lol
<eam>
I actually do carry around my keyboard with my laptop ...
<eam>
and a mouse
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<eam>
can't mouse on the train though
<wallerdev>
i dont think ive ever seen someone pull out a keyboard and mouse and hook it up to their phone
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<shellfu>
Im a good ole desktop guy. I like desktops. I enjoy their flexibility in being able to swap parts. Phones are not at a point where I can get parts even for something like a johns phone
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<shellfu>
Even still. A new game like farcry4 would not be able to run on a phone
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<eam>
sure, but those account for a vast minority share of the gaming market
<shellfu>
Phones have a long way to go in order to compete with dedicated graphics processors on the magnitude of a 3way sli
<wallerdev>
hook up a thunderbolt GPU to your phone, and also plug it into the wall since the battery will die in a few minutes :p
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<wallerdev>
just carry every part of your computer and plug it into your phone to prove a point ;)
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<eam>
wallerdev: I think it's more like when you go home your accessories are there if you want them
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<eam>
it doesn't really matter what kind of device is driving the majority of games as the majority of games aren't difficult to run
<shellfu>
Its a difference in gamer. When home. My windows desktop is my gaming console.
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<eam>
shellfu: sure but your mom playing bejeweled can play it on any device
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<shellfu>
very true
<shellfu>
that is also a difference in casual games vs not
<eam>
sure, and casual gaming has the majority market share -- by a large margin
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<shellfu>
Certainly does. Casual games are massive these days. For me personally I simply do not play nor enjoy them. As I said. Its a difference in gamer
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<wallerdev>
idk i thought the whole conversation started because someone was saying well you have windows i hope you at least game on it, i dont think they were talking about candy crush lol
<eam>
I'm only interested in which markets are gaining traction with developers
<shellfu>
that changes year to year. Otherwise we would all still be programming dice rollers from our tandy books
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<eam>
closer to decade to decade I think
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<shellfu>
I dont like to think that far ahead or i might be dead :)
* shellfu
is an OG
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<wallerdev>
now we're all programming "games" aka microtransactions disguised as games haha
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<deepy>
wallerdev: are you one of those guys who hid devices in kitchenware?
<wallerdev>
no idea what you're saying
<wallerdev>
lol
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<wallerdev>
i'm saying my friend told me to download a game to play with them yesterday and i deleted it after a couple hours because you could basically pay to win and that ruins the whole fun of a game to me
<deepy>
Which game was that?
<wallerdev>
it also tried to post on my facebook wall and all sorts of other stuff
<wallerdev>
trivia crack
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<deepy>
That sounds terrible, your friend is a terrible person and you're even worse by even associating with him
<wallerdev>
lol
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<eam>
most current games are pretty terrible
<deepy>
Remember the golden rule, when in doubt: shun the non-believer. especially if he sent you a farmville invite
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<wallerdev>
i like some of the indie stuff coming out, and i like what nintendo is doing lately
<eam>
I had fun playing farmville. writing bots to play it I mean
<wallerdev>
but i have yet to play a phone game that i enjoy besides chess
<wallerdev>
for iphone
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<eam>
emulators open things up considerably -- but you're SOL on the iphone
<wallerdev>
i blame the race to the bottom in pricing haha
<wallerdev>
need to give away your app for free to get to the top of charts, but the only way to make money then is to make people pay to do things in your game
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<deepy>
That's actually a pretty common misunderstanding
<eam>
wallerdev: it wouldn't be so bad if they'd adopt the old freeware models
<eam>
as in first few levels / world free or whatever
<deepy>
We've reached a point where people's time is too valuable for them to do menial tasks in your games
<eam>
deepy: games used to not have grinds
<eam>
they used to be skill based
<deepy>
eam: games totally had grinds but they were cleverly disguised
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<eam>
name one before 1990 with a grind
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<deepy>
space invaders, total grindfest
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<eam>
that's 100% skill
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<eam>
you don't build up or save up any state
<deepy>
Yet you repeat the same action, over and over again
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<eam>
sure it was simple, but there was no "do this to make the numbers go up to progress to the next story segment"
<eam>
just a single mechanic
<deepy>
There's a lot of games where people grind even though they don't have to
<eam>
that's like saying any physical sport is a grind
<deepy>
Then I'll raise you any RPG ever
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<eam>
one before 1990?
<eam>
they didn't have grinds!
<deepy>
Final Fantasy?
<eam>
no grind, you can just walk through the whole game
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<deepy>
I'm pretty sure most speedruns show that you can walk through many games
<eam>
WoW?
<shellfu>
grind I guess is opinion. Rogue was a grind. especially if you died over and over lol
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
wait, how we ended up speaking about final fantasy on ruby channel?!
<wallerdev>
grinding can be fun but when you put a price on it like, you can grind for an hour to get this weapon or buy it for $1, you weigh your time vs money and it takes all the fun out of it :/
<wallerdev>
imo
<deepy>
shellfu: darn you, I was going to go into pudding farming
<eam>
pudding farming is a grind indeed
<shellfu>
Sounds like me after thai food
<wallerdev>
thats why i never played diablo 3 haha
<wallerdev>
the real money auction house just sucked all the fun out of getting items for me
<deepy>
eam: actually, I raise you Diablo 3. You could easily walk through Diablo 3
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
wallerdev: yes that's one of the reason why I dropped mmos, though whatever is grindable in an mmo is usually not interesting, you play for the experience, usually of fighting bosses in dungeons
<deepy>
yet people grind
<wallerdev>
and they agreed eventually and removed the concept because it makes things less fun
<wallerdev>
the only thing it does is make more money
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
I discovered grinding in real life instead, is quite fun and helpful
<eam>
deepy: sure, but I didn't say there aren't grind-less games
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
lol
<shellfu>
What about civilian farming in trade wars? that was pretty brutally tedious at times
<shevy>
grinding in real life?
<eam>
just that grinding wasn't an integral part of game design back pre-1990
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
shevy: yeah, working! :P
<deepy>
But you're comparing the wrong kind of games
<centrx>
medieval world problems
<deepy>
In a game where you compete with effort involved there's really no other measurement
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<eam>
deepy: well, today there's a model that didn't exist back then which is introduce a stupid time consuming thing and then pay to avoid it
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<deepy>
eam: game genie
<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
eam: true
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<eam>
deepy: not sure infinite lives is the same thing, but point taken
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<eam>
game genie was an amazing invention
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<deepy>
Also, the level of grind we have right now was previously not possible becuase of technical limitations
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<shellfu>
non-sense. We could create a DnD module that is FULL of grinding pointless Fauna :D
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<deepy>
on a pre-1990 computer game :-)?
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<shellfu>
Paper and Pen
<shellfu>
:)
<eam>
I mean you could, but why would you?
<eam>
the experience sucks
<deepy>
It does, but it appeals to a certain kind of people
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<deepy>
I mean, look at EVE Online
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<deepy>
That is almost exclusively done right, it functions flawlessly except where the model is flawed
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<shellfu>
60% of the time it works.... everytime :) -- brian fantana
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<shellfu>
Have it good gentlemen. Im off for a bit. Need to get my old ass on the treadmill before soaking in icy hot
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<deepy>
But I stand by my point, technological advancements have made specific games possible, specific games that cater to specific people and I'm really sorry I missed your comment aboud trade wars shellfu
<eam>
a literal treadmill? Or are you playing WoW
<shellfu_afk>
lol
<shellfu_afk>
literal treadmill
<wallerdev>
why not both
<eam>
;-)
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<wallerdev>
occulus plus that walk in place machine haha
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<deepy>
eam: wizardry 1
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<eam>
deepy: I concede
<eam>
that game was confusing as hell btw
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<deepy>
I never managed to finish it either, but the music from later ones makes me want to