<shevy>
testr0n come on man, ruby is like 10% of the code you need in obj-c
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<testr0n>
i'm highly productive in it
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<Steve009>
Anyone have a github issue queue analyzer. Something to five statistics about the issue queue?
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<Steve009>
I started building my own. But always looking for others
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<Steve009>
Been working on github.com/Stephenott/github-analytics. Bit would love to see some other work. Hoping there is more out there.
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<shevy>
guys, it's time to reveal something ...
<shevy>
I love you!
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<terrellt>
shevy: I just don't feel the same way. We can still be friends, right?
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<shevy>
YES
<Steve009>
Ha
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<terrellt>
steve009: I haven't heard of anything similar, but cool.
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<Steve009>
Ha. Star me if you like!
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<Steve009>
I think its a niche. But always looking around for other work
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<Steve009>
Its a huge weakness in the github product for large projects
<Steve009>
Code fully works. Just been slowly building out the Sinatra app as I get time
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<Steve009>
But if any of you guys use github and have the same issues I have related to managing large projects and dealing with stats for project managers and management. Would love requests and feedback
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<terrellt>
My managers care naught for such things
<Steve009>
That's good!
<Steve009>
Should be happy about that lol
<Steve009>
The more important views will be aput things like showe all the priority issues across multiple repos
<Steve009>
Priority or whatever tag is determined by label.
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<xybre>
wat
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
wikimedia - do we have a cool wiki project in ruby?
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<shevy>
"MediaWiki requires PHP 5.3.2+ and either MySQL 5.0.2+, PostgreSQL, or SQLite."
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<atmosx>
shevy: ?
<shevy>
atmosx how I'd wish this was all in ruby :(
<atmosx>
shevy: yes, you are correct. But a professional programmer shouldn't be bounded by any means by a language
<atmosx>
however I totally get what you're saying :-P
<shevy>
well
<shevy>
you can use your fists, or you can use a hammer
<shevy>
so your professional programmer can use the fists and use php, I use the ruby hammer!
<shevy>
atmosx I am gonna write a wiki in ruby eventually
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<shevy>
atmosx what are you writing these days?
<atmosx>
shevy: too many things really.
<atmosx>
shevy: I'm waiting a ruby on rails book to start my *real* project though
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<atmosx>
I just finnished an HTML + CSS3 book which polished my sporadic knowledge on the topic quite a lot
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<deepy>
as a reader or writer?
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<shevy>
atmosx, what did you learn for CSS3?
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<atmosx>
reader, I'm in no position to write a book about programming deepy :D
<shevy>
I kinda stopped learning CSS somewhere in 2000
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<atmosx>
shevy: positioning mostly and abilities didn't knew it had... Some things I thought were made in HTML but almost all sort of formating/spacing now can be done using css
<atmosx>
shevy: you can even create rolling graphs... subtitles etc. Pretty awesome if you ask me, using just css3, no JS or anything.
<atmosx>
shevy: a guy on #css3 was showing off some could stuff
<atmosx>
s/could/cool
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<shevy>
subtitles?
<shevy>
I like css
<shevy>
I dont like js
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<shevy>
the less js I have to do, the better for my poor brain
<atmosx>
JS is the future apparently thogh
<atmosx>
though
<terrellt>
Yes, CSS3 transitions are pretty shiny. Hardware-rendered too.
<atmosx>
I'm off to bed anyway. It's not hard, I've tried a bit at codeacademy, it's okay. Go seems pretty awesome also.
<atmosx>
shevy: lots of new programming languages to learn ;-)
<atmosx>
ruby is optimal for backend and not nearly as fast as go apparently.
<terrellt>
Well, it's not really a fair comparison. Go's strongly typed and compiled.
<atmosx>
that said, not having exceptions sucks very much.
<shevy>
terrellt hey, obj-c is faster than ruby too
<atmosx>
terrellt: true.
<shevy>
everyone will abandon ruby because for speed
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<atmosx>
shevy: nah
<atmosx>
shevy: hardware is becoming less and less expensive
<shevy>
you learn Go!!!
<atmosx>
+ you can load all the shit in RAM these days
<robominister>
Pity for a noob? Anyone got pity for a noob? I've got a beginners app trying to use omniauth+Google OAuth based on this link: http://blog.myitcv.org.uk/2013/02/19/omniauth-google-oauth2-example.html But I'm having a 'time' formatting issue when running a SQLite app on a Postgres database. Anyone there to take pity on a noob?
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<unstable>
Thanks!
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<shevy>
there may be more efficient ways
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<shevy>
but I think, in 99% of the use cases, this should be fine
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<robominister>
I'm having a 'time' formatting issue when running an originally SQLite app on a Postgres database. does anyone know how to handle an error like this: "ActiveRecord::StatementInvalid (PG::InvalidDatetimeFormat: ERROR:.."
<goleldar>
anyone know how to disable cookies in cucumber using capybara?
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<rjhunter>
goleldar: cucumber doesn't know about cookies (or anything web-related) -- capybara only knows about web-general things. if you want to disable cookies, you'll need to do it for the particular capybara driver you're using (Selenium, Rack::Test, Mechanize...)
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<goleldar>
we are using poltergeist
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<Flashmasterson>
i did some research on floating point numbers because i'm unclear about what they are. am i right in thinking that they're a general version of real numbers, and that they provide a wider range of measurement?
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<shevy>
the "official" explanation from stackoverflow:
<shevy>
"internally, computers use a format (binary floating-point) that cannot accurately represent a number like 0.1, 0.2 or 0.3 at all."
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<shevy>
so in other words, computers are stupid stinking things that should all be replaced with artificially intelligent, clever computers one day that never have a problem to represent something properly
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<zort>
Why do blocks get special syntax for passing them to methods? (the & and the fact that they come after other parameters) Is there a reason they can't be treated like normal parameters?
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<shevy>
Flashmasterson has this tutorial not been written by someone who stopped using ruby?
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<zort>
ah sheesh it's more complicated, nevermind.
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<Flashmasterson>
shevy: dude...
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<Flashmasterson>
shevy: this is kind of funny to me, but i think a waste of my time to read
<shevy>
nah
<shevy>
it's his old rant
<shevy>
he switched to python, vowing to never use ruby again yet he teaches it
<shevy>
he had it on his website, but a year or two ago removed this old rant
<Flashmasterson>
hmm
<shevy>
(the rant)
<Flashmasterson>
that sounds ok to me
<Flashmasterson>
i don't play jazz anymore but teaching it is great
<shevy>
yeah but we play jazz and love it, so go away! :P
<Flashmasterson>
as long as someone has the experience and knowledge for something i think it's more than fine to teach it
<shevy>
AND we teach it too!
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<Flashmasterson>
my point being: would you recommend 'learning the hard way' to a huge noob like me who's trying to learn enough material to create a web application?
<Flashmasterson>
keeping in mind what you told me earlier
<popl>
I disagree. Teachers need to be passionate about their choice of subject material, lest the student become as apathetic.
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<havenwood>
Flashmasterson: I'd suggest starting with tryruby.org, worth going through if you haven't already. Some good resources here: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/
<shevy>
Flashmasterson I? of course I don't recommend it, but I don't know the tutorial. I never bothered to look into it. he moved on to other ways, I think he should stick to teaching C and python and leave the ruby "community" (which is not one big community but consists of several sub-communities; I am not part of the rails "community" for instance) alone. a much better tutorial is this one here, http://pine.fm/
<shevy>
LearnToProgram/, it was my favourite one. but admittedly, it would need a few improves for the year 2013
<Flashmasterson>
popl: i hear what you're saying but passion is apart from what i said. you won't find anyone who is equally passionate about every stage of jazz evolution
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<Lewix>
what are the cool synonym of developer
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<shevy>
Flashmasterson but to be honest, the best and only real way to learn ruby is to start writing simple ruby code as soon as possible and build from that, those tutorials can only help a tiny bit, after a few days you need to get the brain into active mode
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<Lewix>
ninja
<popl>
Lewix: cool?
<Lewix>
popl: yup
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<shevy>
Lewix creator :D
<shevy>
Lewix builder!!!
<shevy>
Lewix MASTER
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<popl>
If you want to be cool, start a rock band.
<Lewix>
shevy: that sounds arrogant lol
<Lewix>
not cool
<popl>
Semantics.
<shevy>
well, builder is kinda truthy
<popl>
Cool implies there are not-cool people.
<popl>
uncool
<Flashmasterson>
shevy: understood. i'm doing that will the well grounded rubyist, and now zed's exercises, which have been great and slow so far
<shevy>
ninja is very non-descript
<Lewix>
popl: exactly
<Lewix>
-)
<shevy>
Flashmasterson if it works for you that's good, when I started with ruby that tutorial did not exist, rails also did not exist... things were very different, it's surprising how things change as the years pass by
<shevy>
actually
<shevy>
I liked things more when rails did not exist :(
<popl>
the ruby koans are pretty cool to learn with
<popl>
that and the documentation
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<shevy>
ohhhh
<shevy>
documentation
<popl>
the ultimate learning by doing
<shevy>
that sucked in 2003 more than today
<shevy>
and even in 2013 documentation isn't ruby's strongest part
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<shevy>
at least they got rid of those iframes
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<Flashmasterson>
yeah totally… (???)
<popl>
Rarely is anything perfect.
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<Lewix>
shevy: Maker
<shevy>
perfection is hard to achieve
<popl>
wage slave?
<shevy>
I settle for +95%
<shevy>
for exams I was often happy to be able to answer +60% of the demanded knowledge
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<Flashmasterson>
what's a good link to view Ruby format sequences and what they are?
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<Hanmac1>
lxsameer: include does not include the "class" methods, if you want something like that, you need an extra module inside that for the class methods you want
<lxsameer>
Hanmac1: inside which one ?
<lxsameer>
Hanmac1: do you mean like A::B::C::D.some_method ?
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<shredding>
I know || = or ...
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<jrobeson>
shredding, try searching for it on symbolhound
<jrobeson>
or just search ruby operators
<shredding>
jrobeson: symbolhound is great, thx
<shredding>
so basically if means: Assign only if not yet set.
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<Hanmac>
shredding: val ||= obj is similar to val || (val = obj) except that ||= does magic so it does not raise an NameError when used with local variables
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<bnagy>
eh
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<bnagy>
huh, when did that happen
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<bnagy>
sure it only used to be ivars that did that
<Mon_Ouie>
They are always automatically set to nil when you use them
<bnagy>
hm mistaken
* Hanmac
's believe has inceased
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<platzhirsch>
hey there
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<shevy>
hey guys
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<apeiros>
hey guy
<finnomenon>
hi
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<lmmx>
Hi, can anyone tell me what an environment variable is in Ruby?
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<apeiros>
an env variable is nothing ruby specific
<apeiros>
env variables are provided by your OS to your applications.
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<apeiros>
in ruby you can read those using the constant `ENV` (acts mostly like a Hash)
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<apeiros>
@lmmx
<lmmx>
i'm trying to setup credentials and inputting them in the advanced system settings (windows) isn't working, is that normal - i.e. do i have to set them through a ruby shell or cmd ?
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<apeiros>
I don't know windows and how it handles env vars.
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<lmmx>
hm ok, thanks, i'll look into ENV then
<lmmx>
if anyone does it's @ stackoverflow.com/questions/19595058 but no answers so far
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<shevy>
lmmx you should be able to modify ENV variables at runtime
<shevy>
perhaps Roo does not obtain these variables despite mentioning it in the docu
<shevy>
ENV variables with ruby on windows should work the same as on linux, if I remember correctly. I never had a problem with them, but it's been years since I last used ruby on windows
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<coderhut>
I have a table having properties/records with their respective lat/long information. If I have a polygon then how can determine using mysql that which properties/records of that table lies in polygon boundry?
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<Hanmac>
coderhut: then you have a #rubyonrails problem
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<jlk1>
Hi all! I recently upgrade my Mac to Maverick (10.9) and now have a ruby problem. 10.9 installs ruby 2.0, while I was using 1.8 previously. I use puppet with facter on my laptop and when I run either, I am getting ruby errors. See here: http://goo.gl/RT0Hnm
<jlk1>
I have tried re-installing both puppet and facter to the newest versions with no luck.
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<jlk1>
Has anyone encountered this and if so, know the fix?
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<lmmx>
thanks, as you might be able to see from my code (http://git.io/ByhiLw) I'm not the most confident in Ruby, will definitely look into these things though
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<shevy>
jlk1 I think not many are on maverick, apeiros for instance did not upgrade (he is usually here, but apparently is not right now...)
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<jlk1>
shevy: It was worth a shot. I will keep trudging through the Google results then. Thanks!
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<supreme__>
hi, anyone used exponential moving average? I am doing a trend comparison to set which of two (or more) topics is "hotter"
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<shevy>
is it a good idea to use remove_instance_variable() ?
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<volty>
shevy: « <jrzt> (For beginning ruby) I already know other languages.»
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<shevy>
volty yes. are you jrzt?
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<volty>
No. And neither shevy. :)
<shevy>
there is a reason I recommend it. if he would say it is below his knowledge, I would ask him one specific ruby related question which he ought to answer if he worked through it
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<shevy>
volty now you almost revealed the surprise question ... :(
<volty>
But he didn't ask for teachers & examiners. :)
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<shevy>
the best tutorials are those that start with the basics
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<shevy>
speaking of which
<volty>
Let's tell the others what's best for them.
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<jrzt>
It's good, because it shows how to do fundamental things the Ruby way ...
<shevy>
ok! now the surprise question
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<shevy>
jrzt why is yield used in ruby, and how to check if a block is passed to a method?
<volty>
ahahah
<volty>
shevy is fantastic
<shevy>
I did not know the concept of blocks and yield before I came to ruby
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<shevy>
I don't even know which languages other than ruby have blocks ...
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<volty>
The term block has different meanings -- depending on context and on language.
<volty>
if you find that one is too complicated think about
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<volty>
if you find that one too complicated think about 'blocks' (procs, lambdas) as on-fly-methods
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<shevy>
I find that page very confusing and very ugly
<shevy>
it sounds as if a mathematician wrote it
<shevy>
I think programming should be about apples and bananes
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<volty>
and hungry monkeys that eat them? :)
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<shevy>
yes
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<shevy>
that is the dual use
<shevy>
everybody understands apples and bananas
<shevy>
but nobody understands why a monad must be stateless
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<shevy>
sometimes I feel not motivated to code at all
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<Senjai>
Is there something obvious I'm missing? How is it possible that a constant declared within a module is not available to functions defined within the module? I don't get this error: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7173655
<Senjai>
cross-posting #ruby-lang
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<Nilium>
Senjai: You used "CLRF"
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<Nilium>
That's why it's not working. >_>
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<shevy>
hehehehe
<shevy>
Senjai get new fingers or a new keyboard man!
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<Nilium>
Or just look more closely at the error message.
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<shevy>
I think his brain was sure that it must exist
<Nilium>
The number of times I've made mistakes like this because I only glanced at the error and went "I know what this is!" without really knowing
<shevy>
whereas his fingers disagreed before and did not tell his brain
<shevy>
but perhaps it's a sign to not use constant names that can be so easily mistyped Senjai
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<shevy>
GHNBEB = 'hi'
<shevy>
HEERHJGWEHGEW = 'there'
<shevy>
puts GHNBEB+HEERHJGWEHGWE
<shevy>
oh... I could use the bot...
<Nilium>
I just try to avoid strings of consonants 'cause they're harder to type
<havenwood>
"The singleton object undefined means that no value is possible."
<Nilium>
Christ, why
<havenwood>
So an unsettable nil, if you will./
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<havenwood>
Indeed. :O
<Nilium>
Oh well, doesn't affect me since I'm strictly using MRI
<Nilium>
Which means I don't get any of the cool stuff, ever
<Nilium>
Like useful threads.
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<havenwood>
MRI threads are still useful. :P
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<havenwood>
Just not for some things.
<havenwood>
Like maths.
<havenwood>
Puma runs pretty well on MRI.
<Nilium>
I'm mostly of the opinion that if you're doing maths, you should be writing it in a C API and calling out to that.
<Nilium>
*the C API
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<havenwood>
yeah, i think some of the project eulers make great examples of where dipping into something lower level is necessary
<Nilium>
That said, I also wrote a 3D maths gem specifically because it's the only way to not get back-breakingly slow matrix concatenation in a frameloop
<havenwood>
just dip, no need to stick around and scald yourself!
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<Nilium>
I like the C API, even if it's undocumented and probably unstable
<havenwood>
Nilium: mm, what's the gem called? worth looking at?
<Nilium>
I mean unstable in the "that function might not exist later" sense
<Nilium>
Called snow-math
<Nilium>
I'm pretty sure it works with Rubinius, though it won't work at all with jruby because jruby hates the C API.
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<Nilium>
Someone also contributed a fix to my GLFW3 gem that made it work with Rubinius, so I'm pretty happy about that too.
<havenwood>
nice
<Nilium>
One of the few times I've gotten a non-frivolous pull request
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<timebomb>
does anyone have any ideas on how to find overlapping time zones in two calendars?
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<shevy>
I am kinda boooored... people gimme something to do!
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<timebomb>
apeiros: i want a data structure to have calendar events. the ability to match calendar events with my own calendar and find free time slots to use
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<apeiros>
timebomb: so you didn't really mean timezones. a timezone is about "offset of hours from UTC". you look for the term "interval".
<apeiros>
timebomb: IMO your question is far too unspecific to give any useful answer.
<apeiros>
sort your calendar events by time. linearly search the events for gaps.
<apeiros>
that'd be a naive solution.
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<RubyPanther>
timebomb: I've found that SQL databases have the richest time and date calculation features.
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<RubyPanther>
I use them for that even when I don't have any tables
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<apeiros>
`require_relative "../lib/ftp/common"` <-- stuff like that is the reason require_relative is bad.
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<shevy>
hehehe
<apeiros>
Senjai: no, that code is not thread safe.
<apeiros>
Senjai: you use a single @client variable. it'll be overridden all the time.
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<shevy>
what I hate about require_relative the most is that it looks as if it is in conflict with simple require... you have a setup of ruby files, where you suddenly end up mixing require and require_relative, that is so ugly
<Senjai>
apeiros: Thats what I thought.
<apeiros>
oh wait…
<Senjai>
apeiros: This is froma book, its not my code
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<apeiros>
unrelated to threads
<apeiros>
Senjai: you sure the book used ivars?
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<Senjai>
apeiros: sorry, ivars?
<Senjai>
apeiros: err instance variables
<Senjai>
apeiros: yep
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<volty>
imho googling parallel computing (tutorials) you can find very nice resources that can give you a nice overview that can help you understand, and, not less, nice ideas
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<volty>
(not ruby specific)
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<Senjai>
volty: Really, I'm at the point where I'm mostly interested in design patterns for certain problems
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<Senjai>
volty: For the ruby specific stuff, the pickaxe gives a good intro
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<volty>
i see. For the my part I have yet to see if gof's design patterns is worth reading it
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<volty>
the only thing I can be reasonably sure about that one cannot place the design patterns ahead of actual thinking // to understand them you need experience, but if you have experience you already have plenty of techniques and ideas (patterns is just a new name for this --- programming techniques repackaged)
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<volty>
«Head First Design Patterns» is, for example, an awful book (and ugly too)
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<volty>
the gof's one, till 8 %, just goes around and around the classification, oo aspects and the 'difficult naming'
<volty>
we'll see
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<starfox21>
hey guys, how can I find for instance the documentation for the switch statement in ruby in the command line? can I use ri ?
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<volty>
switch?
<apeiros>
he means case/when (probably)
<apeiros>
starfox21: ri only documents methods, classes and modules
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<apeiros>
I don't think there's documentation of rubys syntax in the cli
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<shevy>
you are lucky to find any documentation at all!
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<starfox21>
apeiros: I see. I was wondering if you could use regexes in case/when, but I could not find the answer through ri
<apeiros>
starfox21: yes, you can
<apeiros>
case source when expression then action end --> is similar to: if expression === source then action end
<volty>
case is too straightforward
<shevy>
starfox21 yes, when /^abc.+/
<volty>
yes matches === the when expression with the case expression !
<apeiros>
starfox21: note the inversion of the values. it's expression === source, not source === expression. === is an ordinary method, and on regexen, it's defined as an alias of =~
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<starfox21>
apeiros: thanks
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<volty>
today i needed to skip printing of certain variables with % (sprintf) and discovered that you can skip, or to be more precise output them with zero length, using %0.s -- whatever the actual type is
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<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
you are entering the dark corners of ruby volty
<volty>
to me it seems reasonably secure
<volty>
sometimes shevy, i'm not a hacker by nature
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<volty>
ops %.0s
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<Senjai>
volty: I have gof and code complete beside me, both are excellent
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<volty>
Senjai: i said 'imho', i'm going ahead till real code comes // and, btw, exercising is one thing but the actual problems are something completely different // apart from that, and from the validity of the code there, one thing that is certain is the tendecy to repackage the known, give it a new name and classification // my doubts are about 'new' and about the 'usufulness' of the notions (classification, naming) etc
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<volty>
Programming is two much creative to 'patternize' it (the term comes from architecture). To me it sounds like 'writing patterns' fro writers of books.
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<volty>
for now I just express my scepticism about what I perceive as the 'operation «let's patternize (and patronize)»
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<popl>
'
<havenwood>
'
<havenwood>
lest the String not be unclosed
<popl>
havenwood: ಠ_ಠ
<volty>
what's this?
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* popl
closes havenwood's String…
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* havenwood
WellThatEscalatedQuicklyError
<volty>
you can just tell me guys -- whether annoying, or missing, or out of context, or ... whatever
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<havenwood>
volty: wait, what?
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<havenwood>
volty: What's the question?
<popl>
havenwood: This is IRC. What else did you expect?
<popl>
:)
<havenwood>
:)
<popl>
Here we roll deep and rage hard, son.
<havenwood>
volty: if OO is overrated?
<apeiros>
volty: I agree to an extent with you. I too often see people using patterns like puzzle pieces, trying to fit it in *somewhere*, *anywhere* - an answer searching for the question.
* popl
flips the switch
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<apeiros>
volty: but I think it's valuable to a) have names for things (and patterns do that)
<volty>
havenwood: i was talking about 'design patterns'
<volty>
(not oo)
<apeiros>
and b) have "recipes"
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<havenwood>
volty: hmm, i associate the two heavily
<apeiros>
OO is a design pattern ;-)
<volty>
apeiros: i agree, i'm asking (myself) to which extent
<havenwood>
volty: is OO an anti-pattern?
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<apeiros>
havenwood: IMO the class-inheritance part used by most languages is.
<volty>
anti-pattern are those guys that apeiros mentioned before (like puzzle pieces)
<apeiros>
(by most *OO* languages)
<havenwood>
apeiros: I think that isn't unreasonable.
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<popl>
I think this is semantic dragon territory.
<apeiros>
note: I'm not advocating against using inheritance in languages which provide them (since those languages usually don't provide better, or even any other means)
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<heftig>
rust has had code inheritance for a while, and they're looking towards adding data inheritance ("struct inheritance"), too
<havenwood>
reducing complexity ftw
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<volty>
what is supposed to reduce complexity ?
<popl>
fuck it, let's all use haskell
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<havenwood>
hehe
<havenwood>
gg
* apeiros
nowadays reads "gg" as "good game"
<havenwood>
that's what i meant!
<apeiros>
oh
<havenwood>
what else does it mean?
<apeiros>
grinning
<havenwood>
aha
<volty>
you can have a smart guy write excellent c and have idiots that use inheritance to calculate drink prices (depending on ingredients) -- like (head first design patterns book -- in its starting premises)
<havenwood>
volty: i'm thinking Rich Hickey opinion on OO or to a lesser extent recent Zed Shaw
<volty>
e.c. to calculate drink prices ... using 100's of classes
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<havenwood>
volty: Argument is that OO abstraction ends up just not being worth it and functional is name of game.
<volty>
why talk about OO? I falled in love with OO and the damn templates
<popl>
I just read John Backus' 1977 Turing Lecture wherein he unequivocally states "von Neumann languages down, Functional languages up".
<havenwood>
popl: ha
<havenwood>
i love that Ruby is such a Jack of all trades.
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<apeiros>
symbiosis ftw
<volty>
a good mix of everything is the best: choose whatever suits better your neural connections
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<volty>
and, imo, it is not a permanent, per person, style: myself some days 'feel' better with hashes (external code), the other days the same thing with classes, the other with case when , the other with tables & procs
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<volty>
mah! this is a discussion for a blog titled 'Is Everything nowadays a pattern' ? Bred and butter too ?
<popl>
The obvious analogy is that you wouldn't use one tool where another was warranted; in that regards I think it's more important to examine the problem itself first and then decide how best to tackle it (rather than advocate a one-language-to-rule-them-all sort of philosophy).
<popl>
s/regards/regard/
<volty>
You said it well: « <popl> I think this is semantic dragon territory. »
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<popl>
I need to put « and » into my ~/.XCompose
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<volty>
one of the things that I like about internet, about what it brought to us, is the 'essence' // Imagine this simple example: people interested in growing roses. You are an expert and decide to write, for free, a manual. So you write it in 50 pages and those who will read it will find everything (almost) they need. But, if you publish, you have to bring your manual to at least 200 pages
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<volty>
and so: premises, premises, talking about grass, about the gardeners and their happiness, about their wifes etc etc