apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<Nilium> I'm telling you it's CSV, it's little-used, nobody has developed an idiomatic way to handle that specific case
<Nilium> So do what sounds like it's practical and least likely to be clumsy or poorly understood and go with it.
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<prsn> i am at work and have no time to argue with you. my question is about the functionality of a standard ruby class, and in particular where i might find an example of its use. If no one knows, I will figure something out or try somewhere else.
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<Nilium> It's not a standard Ruby class, it's part of the stdlib, which is full of terrible, awful things.
<ccooke> prsn: the problem is that the CSV format doesn't actually distinguish hrows at all
<ccooke> prsn: s/hrows/headers from rows/
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<bricker> I can't imagine why `nil.empty?` doesn't exist.
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<Nilium> Probably 'cause nil isn't empty.
<Nilium> Nor is it full. It's just nil.
<ccooke> prsn: so you have to parse the file, which populates your rows. If you happen to know that the first row is headers, you can then patch it from there.
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<bricker> nil is empty, like /dev/null
<bricker> empty
<Nilium> I'll have you know that my /dev/null is a very fulfilled person.
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<Nilium> It is not in any way empty.
<prsn> ccooke: there's an option to the constructor, :headers => :first_row
<bricker> Nilium: is there a method shared by enumerable and nil that I could use? So I don't have to go `v.nil? || v.empty?`
<prsn> ccooke: so it's pretty clear that this is an intended use case
<Nilium> I don't think so.
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<bricker> oh well
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<ccooke> prsn: sure, but even then you can't know what the headers are until you parse the file
<prsn> ccooke: obviously. but it seems like the intent is to be able to parse the headers, and then iterate over the rest while being able to index by them
<Nilium> You could do !!v | v.empty?
<Nilium> The single pipe is intentional there
<Nilium> Though that'd probably still throw an exception, so || might be necessary there..
<Nilium> *raise an exception
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<Nilium> So !nil || nil.empty? might be sufficient? O_o
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<Nilium> Ok my brain is hurting and I need a demorgan somewhere.
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<Nilium> Could also probably just define empty? for NilClass.
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<ccooke> prsn: the intent is to accept that there are headers and to provide them as metadata.
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<ccooke> prsn: given what you've said, it looks like what you want is to call object = CSV.new(filename), then object.headers to get the headers, and finally object.each to process the rows sequentiallyu
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<dllama> hi guys. i dont know if this is the correct room to be asking but i'm having some difficulty with a rails4 app and mongo/mongoid. I can't really wrap my head around whether i'm doing something in my code or its an issue with mongoid/rails or the combination of the 2. but even though i'm doing an includes() call, it still makes a query every time i call Model.association in view.
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<burlyscudd> dllama: #rubyonrails
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<dllama> burlyscudd, im in there and I asked, as well as in mongoid, but to no avail
<dllama> so i'm expanding my research
<burlyscudd> ahh
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<kurt21> It seems you have to include (inherit) a module to call its functions. That seems ridiculous. Is that correct?
<kurt21> Can't you just 'require' the module and call a function
<kurt21> ?
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<bnagy> you require files not classes ( like Modules )
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<bnagy> mostly ruby modules are a way to namespace code and then mix that code into other objects, which is what include does
<bnagy> some modules also have methods on them directly, like Base64.encode64 etc
<bnagy> when it makes no sense for there to be a Base64 object
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<bnagy> basically a Module is a 'bag of code' that can be used in a few ways, some of which get misused by people who aren't writing rubyish ruby
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<kurt21> A module is a basic namespace for functions. Aka "a bag of code". That makes sense. Why would you have to do a mixin inheritance (include) to use it?
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<bnagy> you don't - eg the Base64 example
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<bnagy> it just depends on the module / API etc
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<bnagy> by default, module Foo; def my_magic ...; end; end; will not expose my_magic
<bnagy> because of the way visibility and modules work in general
<bnagy> to be able to do Foo.my_magic there are options
<bnagy> I prefer module Foo; def self.my_magic but you can also use class << self, module_function :my_magic or extend self
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<bnagy> you could also grub about in Foo's guts and just find it
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<bnagy> >> module Foo;def bar;'BAR';end;end; Foo.instance_method(:bar).call
<eval-in> bnagy => undefined method `call' for #<UnboundMethod: Foo#bar> (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/56640)
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<bnagy> ugh need to bind it I guess :/
<bnagy> anyway it's an uuugly thing to do
<kurt21> thanks bnagy. still wrapping my head around this. this seems backwards.
<kurt21> I see Base64 has it's functions exposed with the self. prefix
<kurt21> But most existing modules don't do that.
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<bnagy> it's not, but depending where you're coming from I see why you'd say that :)
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<kurt21> ActionView::Helpers::TagHelper for example
<bnagy> the most common use of a module is a shortcut for typing the same code into a bunch of different class bodies
<kurt21> I shouldn't use mixin inheritance to use TagHelper helper methods
<kurt21> I guess any function is a shortcut for writing it over and over
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<bnagy> well Action* is often a poor champion of 'the ruby way' and sanity
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<kurt21> Are you saying Rails code isn't written in the Ruby way? That sounds silly
<bnagy> lemme explain one more way
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<bnagy> >> module Foo; def bar;end;end; [Foo.instance_methods; Foo.methods(false)]
<eval-in> bnagy => /tmp/execpad-9a7cd881959e/source-9a7cd881959e:2: syntax error, unexpected ';', expecting ']' ... (https://eval.in/56646)
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<bnagy> >> module Foo; def bar;end;end; [Foo.instance_methods, Foo.methods(false)]
<eval-in> bnagy => [[:bar], []] (https://eval.in/56648)
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<bnagy> so, there's our bar method, but it's an instance method ( same as it would be for a class )
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<bnagy> but modules can't be instantiated, so we can't get at that method without dirty trick
<kurt21> why would a module have instance methods if it's just a namespace that can't be instantiated?
<bnagy> whereas Foo.methods(false) shows us the methods we can actually call on Foo ( the module itself ) which aren't from the normal inheritance chain
<bnagy> because it makes everything consistent
<bnagy> a Class in ruby is actually a special kind of module
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<bnagy> one of the special behaviours being that you can instantiate it
<kurt21> It would seem that classes should have only instance methods and no static/class methods. and modules should have static/module methods but no instance methods
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<bnagy> right, but we don't do that, because of the 'everything is an object' ethos
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<bnagy> you can add methods to pretty much anything, even random string instances
<kurt21> ok, I'm slowly understanding. thanks for the patient explanation.
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<bnagy> so somewhere around here is the big 'turtles all the way down and .. yep my head just exploded' moment
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<d4heyDU> hello everyone
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<krz> possible to turn ints into strings?
<krz> i.e. 1 to one
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<shevy> hmm
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<rethus> i got a passenger error while running redmine. No such file or directory - config/environment.rb
<rethus> Further information about the error may have been written to the application's log file. Please check it in order to analyse the problem.
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<rethus> where can i find that log?
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<jrobeson> is there a log directory ?
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<rethus> /var/log
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<rethus> help… i'm a ruby noob
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<rethus> where are ruby logs appear?
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<lessless> hi folks! did you see http://x.rubini.us/ ?
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<Bofu2U> lessless yeah, looked interesting
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<lessless> exactly
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<lessless> I wonder if it will come to life
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<Bofu2U> I never hold my breath but it would be nice if it did. :)
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<shevy> we need this in ruby
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<Bofu2U> need what?
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<kraljev2> Hey, I am doing a post request to some url
<kraljev2> Net::HTTP.post_form(uri, test: @id).body
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<kraljev2> How can I add custom headers, like user agent?
<kraljev2> 2. How can I view which headers are going to be sent
<kraljev2> using a tool like wireshark might help with 2.
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<lxsameer> how can i remove any duplication in an array
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<tobiasvl> uniq
<apeiros> lxsameer: see Array#uniq
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<lxsameer> thanks
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<brahman> Hi, I would like to create a multi-dimentional hash like I use in Perl. http://pastebin.com/xLKQrnmA does not work. Does ruby not create the multi-dim hash automatically?
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<hoelzro> brahman: it does not
<hoelzro> Ruby doesn't autovivify
<hoelzro> you can use Hash.new(&block) for that behavior
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<brahman> hoelzro: ah ok. can I hash = hash.new; hash[eric] = {:age => 18,:sex => male} instead?
<hoelzro> you could do that if you wanted
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<brahman> hoelzro: seems to work.
<brahman> ah yes. thanks.
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* brahman likes ruby more and more
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<brahman> :)
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<banister`sleep> anyone here upgraded to osx mavericks?
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<jkamenik> banister`sleep: not yet, had a hard time with mountain lion and ruby/rails last time
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<FastestMilkman> yes, and my rbenv seems intact
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* d4heyDU "doesn't know how to use irc"
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<rethus> source 'https://rubygems.org'
<rethus> Could not find gem 'timecop (>= 0) ruby' in the gems available on this machine.
<rethus> how can i install it?
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<Morrolan> `gem install timecop`.
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<Morrolan> `bundle install` if you use bundler and have timecop listed in your Gemfile.
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<rethus> is there a command for "bundle install" which solve dependency themself?
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<Morrolan> Ruby's package manager will take care of dependencies.
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<UForgotten> Is there anyone who was going to rubyconf in miami who wants to sell their ticket? They've sold out.
<d4heyDU> bundler creates Gemfile.lock that specifies the dependencies
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<rethus> Morrolan: thanks a lto
<rethus> lto
<rethus> lot
<rethus> :D
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<TMM> can any of you recommend some skeleton for a CLI tool? I'm looking for a nice organization of code that is not surprising
<_aeris_> {src,test}
<_aeris_> :D
<canton7> bin, lib, test
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<_aeris_> and src/ui
<_aeris_> cli pardon
<canton7> bin/myapp includes lib/myapp.rb, which does most of the heavy lifting
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<TMM> thank you... I'm more thinking about how to organize the various parts. I've seen things like MyAPP::Command.new(args).execute
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<TMM> as a design pattern
<TMM> once you've done the parsing of course
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<finnomenon> should the code in a class be run if the class isn't instantiated (from outside of the class)?
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<breakingthings> finnomenon: It will be run.
<TMM> is there a CLI tool that you guys would consider to be particularly idiomatic?
<breakingthings> >> class Rubby; puts "hi"; end
<eval-in> breakingthings => hi ... (https://eval.in/56704)
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<d4heyDU> TMM: are you looking for something like https://github.com/davetron5000/gli?
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<TMM> d4heyDU, oh no, I've picked a parser this is purely about how to split out the application
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<TMM> I'll come up with something, thanks :)
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<workmad3> TMM: structure? a very thin script in bin/ that loads the CLI class and passes in ARGV, etc, the rest in lib/
<workmad3> TMM: ideally, your CLI class will also be very thin and mostly exist to bind some arguments into some standard ways to use your library :)
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<TMM> workmad3, ok, that is more or less what I was planning on doing, thank you
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<annath> Hey all. I'm working on a ruby script to manage a system where we're using socat to forward a serial device to a TCP port. My issue is that whenever I use ruby to start socat, socat becomes extremely slow and times out after a few attempts to communicate. I can run the exact command in the terminal and it works fine. I'm using the line `pid = Process.fork{exec "#{cmd}"}` to start the process. Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing t
<annath> his?
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<tcort> is this a good place to ask beginner questions about ruby or is there a better channel/forum?
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<breakingthings> tcort: nothing stopping you from asking them here.
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<tcort> what's the best way to initialize an array to all zeros? a 'for' loop or something like this "some_number.times {|n| array[n] = 0}" or is there a better way?
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<workmad3> tcort: Array.new(size, 0)
<workmad3> tcort: or [0] * size
<tcort> awesome, thanks workmad3 :)
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<workmad3> tcort: if it's something like a hash, you should use Array.new(size) { make_object_here }
<workmad3> otherwise you get (probably) undesirable behaviour :)
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<tcort> okay
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<cozby> anyone else getting SSL cert verification errors from RubyGems?
<workmad3> >> Array.new(4, {}); array[0][:foo] = "hi"; array[1]
<eval-in> workmad3 => undefined local variable or method `array' for main:Object (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/56707)
<workmad3> >> a = Array.new(4, {}); a[0][:foo] = "hi"; a[1]
<eval-in> workmad3 => {:foo=>"hi"} (https://eval.in/56708)
<cozby> I was doing gem installs all yesterday without issue and now today I'm getting SSL cannot be verified
<workmad3> #fail
<cozby> ... kinda sketchy
<cozby> considering RubyGems was previously hacked...
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<workmad3> cozby: browser reckons their SSL cert is fine
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<cozby> strange.
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<workmad3> cozby: same machine?
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<workmad3> cozby: btw, the rubygems hack was somewhat different from a failed SSL verification :)
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<cozby> workmad3: yep, same box
<cozby> workmad3: yeah, I know it was the YAML parsing exploit
<workmad3> cozby: what's the error exactly?
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<daxroc> Hi all
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<cozby> Bundler::Fetcher::CertificateFailureError: Could not verify the SSL certificate for https://rubygems.org/.
<cozby> There is a chance you are experiencing a man-in-the-middle attack, but most likely your system doesn't have the CA certificates needed for verification. For information about OpenSSL certificates, see bit.ly/ruby-ssl. To connect without using SSL, edit your Gemfile sources and change 'https' to 'http'.
<daxroc> Is there a nicer "ruby' way to do this ? http://bpaste.net/show/Zk71Uy0Ntgf9SjB8cnvF/
* cozby will edit the gemsource and change it to non-ssl
<workmad3> cozby: ok, so it doesn't give you the actual SSL error
<workmad3> cozby: don't do that
<cozby> er, ok
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<cozby> workmad3: suggestions?
<workmad3> cozby: try doing 'gem install <gem>' manually
<cozby> workmad3: hmm ok
<workmad3> cozby: which, if it fails, will give you a more in-depth SSL error :)
<cozby> hmm seems to have installed OK
<workmad3> cozby: I've had the odd case where something timed out during the SSL handshake for example
<cozby> workmad3: ah
<cozby> gonna try bundle install again
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<workmad3> yeah, it's probably a timeout if a manual gem install worked :)
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<cozby> workmad3: cool, thanks, just got a lil worried there
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<workmad3> cozby: sure, that's reasonable... kinda annoying that bundler hides the SSL error too
<cozby> workmad3: yep
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<daxroc> Has anyone any pointers on the above paste ?
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<_bart> ls
<_bart> woops
<_br_> daxroc: Sure, if you go with deeper nesting I recommend calling that block in a function names "inception"
<daxroc> damn
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<daxroc> always one smart ass eh :D
<_br_> hehe
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<daxroc> Is there a nicer way that's more readable to that level of nesting ?
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<_br_> Hm
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<_br_> daxroc: It seems your data structure is a bit messed up. What exactly are you trying to achive there anyway?
<utkarsh> daxroc, did you want to do ".merge!" in line 10?
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<daxroc> utkarsh: Yeah, i had intended
<daxroc> That looks much cleaner
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<dawkirst> Hi, I want to understand something fundamental: do I need to test exceptions?
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<TMM> has anyone here used the 'escort' gem to make CLIs?
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<TMM> It seems the only one that has the features I need, and the syntax is nice, it kind of behaves a little weird if you tell it to require options though
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<ghr> dawkirst I'm assuming you mean test that they are raised?
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<dawkirst> ghr, yes. ok, do you?
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<ghr> Yeah :)
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<dawkirst> that's enough reason for me :)
<ghr> You can't check that an exception _isn't_ raised
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<dawkirst> ghr, thanks
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<dawkirst> that makes a lot of sense
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<ghr> np :)
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<juo> how can i test if super is called in a method
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<apeiros> juo: you read the code?
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<apeiros> or why'd you do that programmatically?
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<juo> well I'm trying to override a method in a library
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<juo> so in my spec i don't really want to test what the library does to the object
<apeiros> if you override the method, then you should know what it should do…
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<cout> juo: use a mixin
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<apeiros> you can test if super is callable by using `defined?(super)`
<apeiros> but IMO that's a symptom of you doing something wrong…
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<juo> i know super is defined
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<juo> and i know what it does
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<juo> i just thought it would be beyond the scope of my rspec test to check that the library manipulated the objected
<juo> kind of like I'm into the realms of testing the library
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<zipper> sticky_afk: Learning ruby using the koans. This is such a foreighn way of learning programming.
<zipper> Learning ruby using the koans. This is such a foreighn way of learning programming.
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<banisterfiend> zipper if u don't like it, there's plenty of other ways to learn
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<micho> hello. Is there an elegant solution, to check if request to db returned nil or not, and then make some operations on that object? Like - User.first.name.downcase, which wouldn't fail when User.first == nil
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<avril14th> Hello, Can anyone tell me why the same code written inside a function and pasted in a console don't do the same thing?! https://gist.github.com/muichkine/59f540ae179360c0f2dd
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<avril14th> It's the same code, either in a .rb loaded
<avril14th> or witten in a rails console
<avril14th> and it doesn't do the same thing
<avril14th> This is nuts
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<avril14th> I think I'll create never-user-ruby.com one of theses
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<lxsameer> hi, is it usual to create singleton objects in ruby like the way in python ? (instantiate an object and use that across the application)
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<havenwood> lxsameer: Not really sure what you're asking, but that sounds about right. Eigen-ho!
<apeiros> lxsameer: can be done. also see Singleton (part of stdlib)
<lxsameer> apeiros: thanks
<apeiros> lxsameer: but IMO the singleton pattern is an anti pattern and should not be used.
<apeiros> IMO it's almost always a better idea to use a kind of multiton pattern, optionally providing a "default instance"
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<lxsameer> apeiros: why ? is there any cons ?
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<lxsameer> apeiros: can you guide me with a link or resource please ?
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<apeiros> lxsameer: consider the case of "I want to share a db connection across the application"
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<apeiros> using a singleton pattern you paint yourself in a corner once you need more than one connection
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<lxsameer> apeiros: I get it,
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<apeiros> providing a standard connection via e.g. DB.connection is IMO ok
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<lxsameer> apeiros: but i want to share an object which want to be single across my code, for example an instance of Dashboard class
<apeiros> but e.g. DB.fetch_connection(*params) should provide you with any connection you want - one per unique *params
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<apeiros> lxsameer: nothing stops you from doing that without singleton pattern. just create the instance and store it in a constant
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<lxsameer> apeiros: thanks man , that was a big help to me
<apeiros> or behind a method if you want to create it lazily
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<apeiros> e.g. module MyApp; def self.global_dashboard; @_global_dashboard ||= Dashboard.new; end; end
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<sergiu333> sd
<sergiu333> is there something similar like www.script-php.ru for RoR??
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<Morrolan> What does script-php.ru do?
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<sergiu333> but for php there a lot of tons more example scripts for you website
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<apeiros> quality > quantity
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* apeiros wants an emoji for "X kicks Y's ass"
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<ShellFu> jesus saves, the rest of you take full damage
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<ShellFu> j/k :)
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<havenwood> sergiu333: I'd suggesting looking at some gems. Are you familiar with RubyGems?
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<havenwood> sergiu333: The Ruby Toolbox might help you hone in on the gem you're looking for: https://www.ruby-toolbox.com/
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<havenwood> sergiu333: Or the Githubs is another great place to read Ruby code. :)
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<havenwood> sergiu333: http://guides.rubygems.org/
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<sergiu333> yes, good examples to have for newbies:D
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<havenwood> oh, he left? was gunna say i'm not sure reading gem code is super newbie friendly unless you just like to learn through osmosis, but ymmv
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<havenwood> seems like pickaxe may be the better thing, here's the stdlib! :P
<apeiros> in corporatist america, osmosis learns from absorbing you
<apeiros> corpocratist?
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<havenwood> i perused through the pickaxe at barnes and nobles but don't have a copy
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<havenwood> seemed like stdlib with commentary?
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<havenwood> maybe i'll grab the ruby 2.1 edition as a reference :)
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<havenwood> Anyone have the dirt on Dec 25 versus Feb 24 as actual release date for Ruby 2.1? I've heard both floated.
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<yxhuvud> the traditional date would be xmas.
<shevy> YES
<shevy> WE CAN NOT BREAK TRADITIOn
<shevy> BURN ALL UNBELIEVERS!!!
<havenwood> gimme mah present! \o/
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<havenwood> shevy: minaswan
<havenwood> shevy: cast disapproving but respectful glances at unbeleivers**
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<havenwood> :P
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<shevy> well
<shevy> I'll be honest
<shevy> I am not even using 2.x
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<havenwood> :O
<shevy> so it can be december or februar ...
<shevy> *february
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<yxhuvud> https://twitter.com/_ko1/status/392579879805272064 looks like an interesting development
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<ShellFu> Has to be december. No time for both in feb. feb25th Thief is released
<havenwood> yeah, nvm, release still scheduled: scheduled: 2013-12-25
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<ShellFu> thank god
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<shevy> \o/
<shevy> long live the tradition!
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<havenwood> yxhuvud: do you follow what's going on? what are the implications?
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* havenwood eyes glaze over at mention of pretenured heap.
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<havenwood> yxhuvud: so kinda a hierarchy of how persistent you're expected to be, and promote to tenure if likely you're long lived
<yxhuvud> if I udnerstood it correctly, yes.
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<apeiros> tl;dr: faster/better gc
<havenwood> yxhuvud: interesting, curious to see it benched!
<havenwood> nice
<sorbo_> because you're not copying long-lived objects all the time?
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<apeiros> because you're not sweeping over all objects on every gc
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<yxhuvud> sorbo: cruby does not have a copying GC at all yet.
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<apeiros> as I understood ko1, ruby (for whatever reason) can't have copying gc
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<havenwood> Basically a free speech zone, and you may be arrested if you are outside of it. :P
<sorbo_> is this for mark-and-sweep, bitmap marking, or both?
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<sorbo_> sorry, a lot of the gc stuff is new to me
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<havenwood> sorbo_: CoW friendly mark and sweet was 2.0. Generational (back to non-CoW friendly) is 2.1.
<lectrick> GREYBEARDS: (not the Skyrim kind, the GNU kind): Any tips for troubleshooting bugs of the "sometimes fails" variety?
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<yxhuvud> apeiros: hmm. do you have a reference to that? I can see why c-extensions might make it a lot harder though
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<havenwood> gotta pick your wins
<havenwood> s/sweet/sweep
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<sorbo_> havenwood: ah ok
<shevy> mark and swet
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<havenwood> sorbo_: nice thing is progress being made, hooah
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<apeiros> yxhuvud: just that twitter thread
<shevy> lectrick, try to isolate in what part of the code it may happen and consider rewriting that part :P
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<yxhuvud> apeiros: ah yes, but it isn't exactly deep on details
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<apeiros> nope, hence "for whatever reasons"
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* apeiros ponders upgrading to mavericks
<havenwood> do eet!
<shevy> what is mavericks?
<sorbo_> new apple OS
<apeiros> hrmpf, only 40MBit/s :(
* apeiros is dissappoint
<havenwood> shevy: http://www.apple.com/osx/
<shevy> ack
<sorbo_> they abandoned the big cat paradigm for some reason
<apeiros> sorbo_: out of big cats
<shevy> it writes... "Power to the desktop"
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<shevy> does that mean the versions before lacked power???
<sorbo_> apeiros: pick new cats! e.g. nyancat
<lectrick> shevy: so a rewrite pretty much. sigh
<havenwood> sorbo_: A very good reason. But I was indeed looking forward to Saber Tooth Tiger and Common House Cat so they stole that from me.
<sorbo_> I would probably upgrade to OS X NyanCat
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<havenwood> OS X HelloKitty
<apeiros> havenwood: oooh, right @ M&S friendly GC in 2.0 - gotta try how well forking works now
<shevy> lectrick perhaps the project is too big! in my pseudo shell, I have a mysterious bug, in where it feedbacks all aliases before it outputs the specific error. I haven't traced it down yet but I was also too lazy to chase it down... it's a semi-stable heisenbug
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<apeiros> havenwood: lol @ OS X HelloKitty
<havenwood> FORK ALL THE THINGS \o/
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<shevy> OS X HellKitty
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<apeiros> FailKitty
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<shevy> hehe
<apeiros> srsly, I hope some of 10.8's bugs vanish with mavericks.
<apeiros> at least it seems like they took their time to polish this one.
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<havenwood> yeah, been really quite polished for the last months
<havenwood> month*
<shevy> good
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<shevy> you applers
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<havenwood> shevy: ships with 2.0.0-247 :)
<havenwood> p247
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<shevy> linux forever, everything compiled from the source!!!
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<sorbo_> havenwood: so they skipped 1.9 entirely? last I saw they were shipping 1.8.7
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<havenwood> sorbo_: skipped, Mavericks was the Dev-love update though, so they gave latest
<sorbo_> havenwood: yeah, makes sense
<havenwood> sorbo_: ships with 2.0 default and 1.8 available
<sorbo_> nice
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<havenwood> My one big complaint is they didn't bump to bash 4. I'm a zsh user but causes headache for tools like chruby to have to put up with OS X users who don't zsh or brew a modern bash.
<apeiros> and all the ruby version managers still work nicely I'd assume…
<apeiros> havenwood: weird… bash4 is like years old, no?
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<havenwood> apeiros: yup.
<yxhuvud> isn't it some license issue? Like apple not agreeing with gplv3 oslt?
<havenwood> apeiros: yeah, to bash 4 being old
<apeiros> iirc I wondered about that with 10.6 already
<havenwood> yxhuvud: ah, that must be it
<apeiros> yxhuvud: ah, that'd explain it
<havenwood> yxhuvud: because it is not very pleasant
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<havenwood> i'm kinda of the opinion of insisting that OS X bash devs update themselves to 4, i just hate supporting the 3 edgecases when there's already plenty to think about with just zsh/bash/ksh compat.
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<havenwood> apeiros: ruby-install and chruby well tested on Mavericks, i'm assuming RVM and rbenv are totally up to speed as well.
<havenwood> rvm at least :P
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<havenwood> yeah, no issues left for rbenv either
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<havenwood> Mavericks has really be stable for last two months so no nasty suprizes with gold master.
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<joelteon> does this look familiar to anyone? https://gist.github.com/joelteon/7ba844580913d8590bd2
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<lectrick> I'm an Appler, shevy, but I have become a bit enamored of the http://elementaryos.org/ distribution... at least until it stopped loading correctly after Installing All The Things™
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<lectrick> Since I am running it in a VM, I am having to Save Image before EVERY install just to figure out what the problem is... Not the greatest user experience. OSX is pretty troublefree
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<apeiros> main reason I use apple - it stays out of my way more than other OSes
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<joelteon> dude, the elementary os ad is *fantastic*
<lectrick> ^ exactly
<joelteon> it's too bad *no* non-apple entity can design a UI worth shit
<lectrick> to apeiros
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<apeiros> joelteon: I remember ~15y ago I had high hopes for linux
<apeiros> I thought it should be easy to get there in 5-10y
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<apeiros> yet last time I tried linux for the desktop, I was largely disappointed. been ~4y now, though. I might try again.
<lectrick> Elementary Luna is probably the closest I've seen to realizing that vision. Even if it does feel like an OS X knockoff
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<apeiros> if it feels like an OS X knock-off: great
<apeiros> great artists copy
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<joelteon> yeah, but it's a shitty knockoff
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<lectrick> apeiros: I recommend trying it
<joelteon> i won't be sitting there thinking "hey, this OS looks nice"
<joelteon> i'll be thinking "hey, OSX does that ui element a lot better"
<lectrick> joelteon: It's new. Give it time. If I have a terminal, Sublime, and Steam and a few games, and Chrome... I'm a happy camper.
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<apeiros> I don't even need games
<joelteon> i'd rather someone go in a different direction than windows or osx, to be honest
<apeiros> that's the one reason I have a windows box for
<joelteon> last year i ran arch for awhile
<joelteon> and used i think openbox
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<lectrick> Steam has sort of committed to Linux so I expect Linux to be the future "gaming OS"
<joelteon> it was a really simple, really flat design
<joelteon> probably my favorite OS design i've ever used
<apeiros> funny enough - even though I spend less than 1/20th of my time in windows compared to osx, I still have more to swear about it (and believe me, I have my quibbles with OS X too…)
<lectrick> joelteon: I agree but people hate change
<joelteon> uhh, UI design
<joelteon> whatever
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<lectrick> apeiros: same here. i did windows admin for a bit in a prior life, oh the horrors.
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<joelteon> OH it was fluxbox
<joelteon> that's what it was
<apeiros> lectrick: I love the "Oh look, I installed some updates. I don't care what you're doing right now, I'll just reboot."
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<joelteon> oh, also, the windows were borderless because i was using xmonad
<joelteon> and unfocused windows were semitransparent
<joelteon> probably the most beautiful UI i've ever used
<lectrick> apeiros: Yep. Fuck you and your work, we have security patches to apply NOW!
<lectrick> At least OS X apps (now) save their state and restore on restart
<apeiros> lectrick: Fuck you and your online game which is ranked. I'll force-quit you out of it.
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<apeiros> (I'm not masochistic enough to do actual work on my windows box)
<sorbo_> if I remember right, windows is also super fine-grained with user types
<sorbo_> in terms of who has permission to do what
<sorbo_> that annoyed me for the seven minutes I did anything on windows ever
<lectrick> It's funny because Apple used to be made fun of as being a "toy" so Jobs never committed to games on Mac at all. Then they ended up "killing it" with games on iOS, now Steam wants to take the party to Linux. Microsoft languishes.
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<lectrick> sorbo_: Windows has a very comprehensive (complex) security model. It works great IF everything is set up correctly (which is nearly impossible, so Windows often ignores its own security protocols).
<sorbo_> lectrick: I'll buy that
<lectrick> Most of the troubleshooting I ended up having to do on Windows ended up being a permissions issue since it was so ridiculously comple
<lectrick> x
<sorbo_> seriously
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<lectrick> Can you even run a viable Windows install as a "pure" user (no admin rights or only manually-escalated admin rights), yet?
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* lectrick knows he's probably preaching to the choir here and should probably go troll #windows instead
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<sorbo_> I don't know many debs who use windows, and the ones I _do_ know all work at MSFT, where they've mostly drunk the kool-aid
<sorbo_> (not that everyone does, but these guys have)
<sorbo_> they all have zunes and windows phones and it makes me depressed
<sorbo_> er
<sorbo_> s/debs/devs/
<terrellt> I develop on windows.
<finnomenon> apeiros: I don't think thinkpads will fit in there
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<terrellt> Vagrant lets me.
<joelteon> you know there's a problem when the human interface guidelines for elementaryos have grammar errors
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<apeiros> finnomenon: good thing then I don't have a thinkpad
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<finnomenon> good thing? ;p
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<lxsameer> does defining modules inside a class is a bad idea ?
<apeiros> lxsameer: works fine
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<MrZYX> but I'd be interested in the usecase :)
<apeiros> Class < Module (read: Class is a subclass of Module) anyway
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<lxsameer> apeiros: thanks buddy
<apeiros> MrZYX: same as with modules. just that one of your namespaces happens to be a class itself.
<MrZYX> sure, just never saw the need
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<apeiros> MrZYX: feel free to search my github repos, I'm pretty sure I did it a couple of times
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<apeiros> even has classes within classes
<apeiros> or actually: a class within a class
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<MrZYX> I did class inside class myself already
<MrZYX> just never saw a situation where module inside class made sense to me :)
<MrZYX> ah, hm, so you use it as a constants container
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<MrZYX> so I guess what I mean is that I've trouble to think of a class X; module Y; class Z situation that makes sense
<apeiros> I wouldn't wonder if that was in one of my files too
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<apeiros> but if asked I couldn't tell you a specific use case for that either
<apeiros> it's something which "just happens"
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<MrZYX> yeah, just saying it never happened to me ;)
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<apeiros> cross your fingers - updating. cya laters (hopefully :D)
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<csffsc> havenwood: whats new?
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<havenwood> hunger
<havenwood> off to lunch!
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<oddover> Is anyone here familiar with how to use the bindata gem?
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<slash_nick> oddover: dmendel is the only contributor...
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<oddover> nvm. I got it figured out
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<zipper> uh could someone recommend a way for one to learn ruby?
<zipper> A friend recommended ruby Koans
<zipper> but it seems to advocate for bad practice
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<apeiros> zipper: huh? what makes you think ruby koans advocates bad practice?
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<zipper> That is rescue:
<zipper> rescue Exception => ex
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<daimonic> hehe a large channel by current standards
<apeiros> zipper: I know that `rescue Exception` is usually a bad idea - where does koans advocate it?
<daimonic> so chaps and chapettes! whats so super about ruby :)
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<dcunit3d> so ruby's built in matrix library can add matrices
<apeiros> daimonic: things like this:
<zipper> apeiros: koans/about_nil.rb line 14
<dcunit3d> and do matrix multiplication
<zipper> am I wrong?
<apeiros> >> [3,-5,12,-7].sort_by { |value| value.abs }
<eval-in> apeiros => [3, -5, -7, 12] (https://eval.in/56862)
<dcunit3d> but not just get the elementwise product of 2 matrices?
<apeiros> zipper: got a link?
<zipper> I also don't understand how I am supposed to know the expected output.
<apeiros> zipper: I don't know whether you're wrong. I haven't done the koans myself, but I've never heard bad things about them so far.
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<zipper> apeiros: let me give you a paste of the file.
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<apeiros> zipper: I think koans is on github
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<daimonic> mm ok
<daimonic> anything else? ;)
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<zipper> uh so who is the koans targeted to help learn ruby?
<popl> what?
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<apeiros> zipper: I think when you let the test run, it will tell you all you need to know when it fails
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<daimonic> so something that gives you pretty much the same output as you gave as input is cool
<daimonic> diggeryism
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<dcunit3d> anyone else worked with the standard ruby matrix library? bit.ly/1aGqw3H
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<apeiros> daimonic: um, no, being able to pass a small piece of code to the sorting method to tell it how it should sort the array is cool
<apeiros> >> -5.abs
<eval-in> apeiros => 5 (https://eval.in/56863)
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<apeiros> the example sorted the array by the absolute value of the numbers
<daimonic> oks
<zipper> apeiros: lol this is all I see:
<daimonic> not terribly new but it doesnt have to be I guess
<zipper> " You have not yet reached enlightenment. I sense frustration. Do not be afraid to ask for help. "
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<apeiros> zipper: there's no part that reads something like "false is not NoMethodError"?
<sweeper> what, I have to change my window manager AGAIN?
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<zipper> apeiros: " Expected "FILL ME IN" to equal NoMethodError "
<apeiros> there
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<zipper> I did try with false at first because that is what I expected but that failed.
<ShellFu> sweeper, what you usin? Im quite partial to fluxbox
<zipper> This way of learning a language is weird man.
<ShellFu> but I love VTs
<zipper> apeiros: how'd you learn?
<apeiros> zipper: I wrote code
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<apeiros> zipper: that message tells you what it expects
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<sweeper> ShellFu: was a joke re: enlightenment. I use xmonad, used flux a couple years then openbox for a bit, and now I waste no screen space or cycles, it is wunderbar
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<amigo99> hey guys, just wondering, what Continuous Integration tool do you use for private git repositories?
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<bricker> amigo99: CircleCI
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<amigo99> bricker: ic, u tried any self-hosted solution before or you felt that hosted solutions are better?
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<Socket-> Can anyone help me figure out what's causing this error: http://apaste.info/aq9c I am following the guide from:
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<Socket-> happens in both 2.0.0 and 1.9.3
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<shevy> Socket- I am just as clueless, the stack trace does not seem to be helpful
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<shevy> sweeper you speak german?
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<shevy> guys...
<shevy> any ideas how to subtract '23:51:47' from '24:00:00' ? it is in 24 hours time notation
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<apeiros> shevy: def duration(str); h,m,s = str.split(/:/).map(&:to_i); h*3600+m*60+s; end
<apeiros> then duration(a)-duration(b)
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<shevy> ah, that is clever
<shevy> thanks
<apeiros> yw
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<bricker> amigo99: (sorry for late reply) We haven't felt the need yet to setup a self-hosted CI server
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<workmad3> apeiros: there's also str.split(":").inject(0){|secs, t| secs * 60 + t.to_i} ;)
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<shevy> but nobody understands inject!
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<workmad3> shevy: I do :P
<workmad3> shevy: I can also factorize h*3600 + m*60 to 60(h*60 + m) (which is what I exploited with that inject ;) )
<shevy> well, 60(h*60 + m) is still more readable than inject
<shevy> :D
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<workmad3> shevy: I was just being clever, alright? :(
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<shevy> no, that is fine
<shevy> I mean being clever
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<shevy> less code is almost always better
<workmad3> shevy: it's a better use of inject than 90% of pre-each_with_object uses :)
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<shevy> how would that look, with .each_with_object?
<workmad3> worse
<shevy> lol
<ShellFu> Well that was down right cordial. No rage? No anger?
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<ShellFu> man IRC is changing
<ShellFu> :)
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<shevy> I think I used .inject a few times but not yet .each_with_object
<shevy> or .tap
<workmad3> shevy: I could try and give you rage and anger... but I'm british, I'm not good at letting them go
<shevy> no, give ShellFu rage and anger please, not me
<workmad3> ShellFu: ^^
<ShellFu> :-D
<workmad3> sorry, tab-complete fail
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<workmad3> FU TAB-COMPLETE!!!!
<workmad3> ShellFu: that ok?
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<shevy> I ANGRY TYPE IN BIG LETTERS!!!1
<ShellFu> Yes. Now all is right in the world
<ShellFu> now im leaving. Its too hostile
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<workmad3> heh
<shevy> why are you called ShellFu anyway, are you a shell guru
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<ShellFu> :)
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<nobitanobi> If I have a code that looks like this Timeout.timeout(10) do myvar = getvarvalue(...) end -- How can I make myvar accessible out of the block?
<shevy> nobitanobi, just store it in an @ivar?
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<nobitanobi> hum
<nobitanobi> shevy: can you point me to why does this happen?
<shevy> why does what happen :)
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<shevy> you mean that local variables are local to the block?
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<shevy> that is probably consistent with how local variables are used elsewhere, i.e. if you define one in a method, they are pertaining to that method, and don't exist outside of the method
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<volty> trolling scope
<volty> the wife's agenda is in wife's scope, that of both is in the sleeping room
<Socket-> I was able to resolve that error by installing celt-devel , but now i am getting a new error. Can anyone help me figure out whats going on in this stack trace? http://apaste.info/5T4Y
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<volty> the family in the kitchen, the public goes in the gardne
<volty> garden
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<volty> Pattern Freak
<volty> ops! Antipattern Freak!
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<shevy> wat
<shevy> are you drunk again
<daimonic> yes!
<daimonic> hello rather
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<bricker> Is there a better way to do this that doesn't require iterating 3 times?
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<volty> just tired, got the name for the freaks that talk too much about design patterns, it was the title for an essay about one of the antipatterns -- just identified
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<volty> bricker: you can only drop the last one, but at the cost of complicating the block of the second, not worth, and wonder why are you thinking about such 'savings'
<bricker> volty: because it's my job to think about those things
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<volty> ok ok, let me hope your are paid more than the clock difference cost :)
<shevy> hmmm
<shevy> bricker perhaps you could eliminate the last reverse
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<shevy> if you could reverse inside .sort_by
<bricker> shevy: yes, I could use sort instead of sort_by... I think that'll be faster
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<volty> without 'perhaps', there's always a mapping to reverse value if there is reverse all
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<ShellFu> shit its 4:30
<ShellFu> training
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<ShellFu> opps wrong room
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<bricker> volty: is there reverse value for Time objects?
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<volty> of course -- in the context of reverse order
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<bricker> volty: I don't know what you're saying
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<volty> you map your values to inverse
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<volty> last_possible_datetime - p.....public_datetime
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<volty> or just get the datetime as integer and change the sign
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<bricker> Hmm, I'll have to benchmark if -date.to_i is faster than just a reverse
<volty> what type is public_datetime?
<bricker> But I bet integer comparison is faster than date comparison
<bricker> volty: Time
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<volty> sor_by .... -p.articles.....public_datetime
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<bricker> volty: but there is no such thing as a negative date
<bricker> But I can convert to integer, so I think that's what I'll do
<volty> just put that to_i
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<nobitanobi> shevy: sorry, my dog needed my attention :) - I see, thank you
<apeiros> bricker: so if today is the year 2000, what year was it 4000 years ago?
<shevy> teach your dog ruby man
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<shevy> -2000 !!!
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<shevy> odd... I actually never saw negative years... :\
<volty> there's a hole
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<shevy> hehehe
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<volty> they didn't want to go till zero :)
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<apeiros> date as 'year+month+dayofmonth' is just a representation of "numbers of days since X"
<bricker> apeiros: Can't tell if you're joking or not
<apeiros> and negative date is just a matter of what your reference point is
<shevy> the swiss are always joking
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<apeiros> bricker: your "there is no such thing as a negative date" is wrong. the above was to make a point.
<volty> full of sense of humor - much like hal
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<shevy> oh man, hal was evil
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<apeiros> volty: hal had a nice sense of humor indeed, so sad he had to die
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<shevy> :)
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<bricker> apeiros: eh... I don't feel like getting into a philosophical debate about "What Is Time?" so late in the day
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<volty> yap, but wasn't evil, just executing his duty :)
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<apeiros> bricker: there's nothing philosophical about it. unless you think physics & maths are philosophical.
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<shevy> volty hmmm his duty wasn't to murder one of the two crew members!
<shevy> I am going to find out in what programming language hal was written in
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<volty> yes, like in the wars, i hope you are not one of those pacifists that hate uniforms
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<bricker> apeiros: What is "December 8th, 2008"? A relative date from an arbitrary other date? What is "Date"? Who decided what a Month is? Were they correct? What is Date 0? The beginning of earth? Beginning of time? Is time linear? Cyclical? How can anybody ever possibly know?
<bricker> apeiros: there, I got it all out in one message, now I'm done talking about it.
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<apeiros> bricker: "A relative date from an arbitrary other date?" yes.
<volty> « <bricker> volty: but there is no such thing as a negative date »
<apeiros> "Who decided what a Month is?" historic
<bricker> apeiros: Fine, then all I meant was `-Time.now` doesn't work.
<apeiros> "What is Date 0?" depends on your definition
<bricker> apeiros: lol
<bricker> apeiros: Why doesn't -Time.now work, then ?
<apeiros> bricker: because it's not defined
<volty> it is day 0 --- much like ground 0 :)
<bricker> apeiros: Define it.
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<bricker> apeiros: I want to see how *you* would define it.
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<apeiros> bricker: easily done - -Time.now.to_i
<shevy> >> Time.at(0)
<eval-in> shevy => 1970-01-01 01:00:00 +0100 (https://eval.in/56897)
<apeiros> because that's what time internally uses
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<shevy> there is day 0 volty!
<shevy> the world started 1970
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<apeiros> bricker: the point is "arbitrary other date" - yes, *arbitrary*
<volty> yes, and i was born few years before :)
<bricker> apeiros: Still incorrect though. That's not a negative time, it's just a negative number of seconds from 1970.
<apeiros> "date" is an infinite counting up on a linear number
<bricker> lol
<bricker> apeiros: I thought I said I wasn't going to talk abou tthis
<apeiros> bricker: your lol doesn't make what you say any more correct
<daimonic> tossing client
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<bricker> apeiros: yes it does.
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<apeiros> bricker: guess why you can express the same date as year-month-day, year-week-weekday, year-yearday - because it's just representation
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<apeiros> representation of a value which is counted up by 1 every day
<volty> we'd better go with the first mine, just go with a.d. 4000 (well beyond the end of our world) and subtract your days
<bricker> apeiros: this is the most ridiculous argument I've ever had
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<bricker> apeiros: Can we argue about the meaning of life next?
<bricker> See, *I* think life exists to perpetuate other life
<bricker> But then, where does it end?
<apeiros> bricker: no. but sadly you seem to lack the ability to understand abstraction.
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<shevy> bricker how did life start if it perpetuates other life?
<volty> yes, i agree about the last one: it is all about abstraction
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<apeiros> all it needs for a date to be negative is the definition of where 0 is on that "line" (in the graphical sense - german has a better word for it) of date
<bricker> oh shit an IRC gang
<volty> bricker: no, i'm joking
<volty> i hate gangs
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<shevy> bricker nah, I don't care about time but you mentioned life!!!
<bricker> apeiros: you are trying to pick a fight, go do something else.
<apeiros> bricker: unlike you I've actually implemented a full date library. unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.
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<apeiros> I don't need to fight.
<volty> yes apeiros could better drink an aperol
<Flashmasterson> there's an instruction in 'the well-grounded rubyist' to create a generic object be means of obj = Object.new but black doesn't specify if it's supposed to be made in ruby, irb, or as a text file. thoughts?
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<Flashmasterson> *by means
<shevy> Flashmasterson irb
<bricker> apeiros: damn, wow! And how big *is* your penis?
<shevy> not sure what you mean with text file or ruby though
<apeiros> bricker: dangerous grounds.
<volty> no no
<shevy> Flashmasterson you can also use the bot here
<shevy> >> obj = Object.new
<eval-in> shevy => #<Object:0x419152e4> (https://eval.in/56898)
<volty> the question should state: apeiros does the length of your penis start from 0 ???
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<apeiros> I realize I provoked it. only reason I don't kick you. but don't go further.
<bricker> volty: What about a negative penis length?
<Flashmasterson> shevy: i'm not either - i'm really new to this. i got this when i created it through interactive ruby: => #<Object:0x007ffcc9060a40>
<volty> bricker: just an abstraction :)
<bricker> volty: lol
<volty> negative could mean back-inside :)
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<shevy> no, it's just too scared
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<shevy> Flashmasterson yup that is typical
<volty> kick who?
<shevy> you can do it again and again and the 0x00 number changes, they all have different object_id
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<shevy> Flashmasterson it's just a very basic object in ruby
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<shevy> only BasicObject is more basic
<shevy> >> BasicObject.new
<eval-in> shevy => /tmp/execpad-6280f21a1738/source-6280f21a1738:1:in `p': undefined method `inspect' for #<BasicObject:0x40719310> (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/56899)
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> >> class BasicObject; def inspect; self; end; def to_s; self; end;end; BasicObject.new
<eval-in> shevy => #<BasicObject:0x40fccfd4> (https://eval.in/56900)
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<shevy> now that is an upgrade!
<shevy> I propose to call this the AlmostBasicObject
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<volty> an amusing one... they say that orson wells said that switzerland had a centuries of piece, while italy had wars, killings, poisoning etc etc, // but, at the end, italy produced Michlelangelo, Leonardo .... (long) and Switzerland the cuckoo-clock
<apeiros> bricker: anyway - "provide a negative date": "-1 in unix epoch", there. You can get it via Time.at(-1). you know, there's more than just the gregorian calendar to express a date.
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<apeiros> volty: I think those have actually been our northern neighbors (might be wrong, tho)
<shevy> volty it's true, macciavelli lived in a time when italy was very divided and the rulers fighting one another whereas switzerland was more united in itself
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<volty> true, weren't italians at those times
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<Flashmasterson> shevvy: here i'll copy n paste what he says to do, maybe you can help me see the light
<volty> ah, shevy, btw you should make your own time class if you have to do extensive datetime calculus
<shevy> oh man, I am going to hate time
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<shevy> that thing I am trying to write should have been finished an hour ago!
<volty> maybe you can find some gem around
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<shevy> no!
<shevy> I am writing at.rb
<volty> to write something like my_date.days += 4
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<shevy> so that I can have an alarm clock when I must wake up
<shevy> at 07:23:22
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<volty> oh dear!
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<volty> i wrote that one just for a count-down timer mm:ss in (qt gui) // mainly for the coffee that comes out good at slow fire (10 minutes exactly)
<shevy> cool
<shevy> ruby qt?
<Flashmasterson> shevvyhere are the exact instructions (breifly) for the object question i had https://gist.github.com/Flashmasterson/7128447
<Flashmasterson> *briefly
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<iltempo> :q
<shevy> god that is hard to read Flashmasterson
<shevy> can't you make newlines / proper breaks :P
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<volty> yes, when the count-down fires the systray blinks a message
<Flashmasterson> sorry man it was the best idea i had rather than spamming this room
<shevy> yes, the idea is fine
<shevy> the implementation is bad
<shevy> btw Flashmasterson you need to get more disciplinized in your code
<shevy> puts "I am an object." puts "(Do you object?)"
<shevy> ^^^ that should be on 2 new lines
<Flashmasterson> man i just started reading this book last week
<shevy> I mean, the second puts
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<Flashmasterson> and that's david black's writing, not mine - that's a quote from his book
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<digital-ghost> Flashmasterson: Now because of shevy, you know that those two method calls should be on their own lines.
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<digital-ghost> Flashmasterson: You've gained experience!
<volty> shevy-the-master
<Flashmasterson> true, i just pasted it wrong
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<volty> or the shevy master
<Flashmasterson> black made two lines a piece for it
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<shevy> Flashmasterson you should think like this... the more convenient you make it for others to look at your code, the more likely they wanna help
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<Flashmasterson> shevy: understood, i'll learn from this
<shevy> right now I have to use the scrollbar to scroll to the right side
<shevy> btw
<shevy> that is an odd intro
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<shevy> def obj.talk
<shevy> did he skip this here?
<shevy> def talk
<shevy> because that is simpler...
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<shevy> ah
<shevy> because you defined obj before, right?
<shevy> like: obj = Object.new
<Flashmasterson> well keep in mind that the latest version of this book was 1.9.1 - an unstable version as i'm told
<shevy> I get it, it's just unusual to do that really
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<Flashmasterson> the first thing here is that i don't know where to enter/type "obj = Object.new - is it in irb, text editor, what?
<shevy> Flashmasterson, I think the example is just to show you that you can modify almost everything in ruby at runtime
<shevy> Flashmasterson go with irb
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<Flashmasterson> shevy: ok i did that and got the result that i mentioned to you earlier
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<shevy> you are on your way to fall in love with ruby!
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<Flashmasterson> shevy: no kidding
<shevy> but you should make notes too so that you remember that in 14 days still :D
<Flashmasterson> i do, i write in the book and my mac
<shevy> or because the documentation of ruby is not always perfect ...
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<shevy> awww... so many mac users here :(
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<shevy> isn't anyone using linux anymore?!
<tylersmith> i was but my work made me change :(
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<tylersmith> i do for my personal stuff, but that's tended toward 0 for the last couple years
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<Flashmasterson> shevy: alright so why am i unable to get the result of that whole gist i sent you?
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<shevy> tylersmith :(
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<shevy> you guys depress me
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<shevy> Flashmasterson what result do you try to find?
<tylersmith> sorry buddy
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<shevy> well, work changes people
<shevy> apeiros here is using rails solely because of work!
<Flashmasterson> shevy: I am an object. / (Do you object?)
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<Flashmasterson> shevy: / = separate line
<shevy> well
<shevy> you stored it in a method ok?
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<shevy> now you must invoke that method
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<shevy> obj.talk <---
<shevy> btw update your gist there ok Flashmasterson ?
<Flashmasterson> in irb?
<Flashmasterson> ok will do
<shevy> yes in irb
<shevy> but you know, you can store this in a file, and run it too
<shevy> either way is fine
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<shevy> it's what I do in ruby for the .rb files that are more important
<Flashmasterson> shevy: oh i think i did that, just saved the method call in sublime
<shevy> I don't use the "at" command of linux, so I just wrote the file at.rb, and I aliased "at" to call it
<shevy> good Flashmasterson!
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<shevy> when you invoke it, obj.talk is the same as obj.talk()
<Flashmasterson> shevy: ah, and '@' is an instance variable - used to store information for individual objects?
<shevy> in python you must use the (), in ruby you can omit them
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<shevy> yes, you can use as many @ivars as you want
<shevy> it is available inside every method of your class
<shevy> >> class Foo; def initialize; @foo = 5; end; def test; puts 'Foo is '+@foo.to_s; end; end; Foo.new
<eval-in> shevy => #<Foo:0x40dd0f3c @foo=5> (https://eval.in/56904)
<shevy> ^^^
<shevy> that's how it will look
<shevy> notice the @foo=5 part there in the output
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<Flashmasterson> ok that's a bit over my head right now but i do appreciate it
<shevy> in 2 weeks it'll be dead simple
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<Flashmasterson> i'm excited for it, but for now i get this when i enter obj.talk into irb: https://gist.github.com/Flashmasterson/7128630
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<shevy> that means the method was not defined
<shevy> so you did not do: def obj.talk
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<shevy> scroll up to see why you did not :D
<shevy> I mean, in irb
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<shevy> >> obj = Object.new; def obj.talk; puts "I am an object."; puts "(Do you object?)"; end; obj.talk
<eval-in> shevy => I am an object. ... (https://eval.in/56905)
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<shevy> Flashmasterson, ^^^ here is proof that your code should work
<shevy> so you must have forgotten something in irb
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<Flashmasterson> sick!
<Flashmasterson> yeah i just underestimated irb and tried to do it another way
<Flashmasterson> very simple, as you said and demonstrated
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<shevy> cool
<shevy> back when I started, I used the pickaxe
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<Flashmasterson> shevy: cool i'll add it to the helper list
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<craytoon> is there a separate channel for rails questions?
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<Flashmasterson> craytoon: there is!
<Flashmasterson> craytoon: #rubyonrails
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<craytoon> cool i was putting hyphens in the name
<craytoon> can't join anyway need to be identified with services? any way my problem is very similare to this one http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19551836/datetime-select-not-displaying-in-utc
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<shevy> you can register on freenode, /msg nickserv identify YOUR_PASSWORD_HERE
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<shevy> problem is #rubyonrails is really where the experts are, I still dont know rails much so I could not help
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<craytoon> i did the /msg thing but still can't get in
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<craytoon> rails people not allowed in here ? :)
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<Flashmasterson> craytoon: they are but only for ruby-related questions
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<craytoon> yea i don't see a ruby in the ruby-on-rails ;)
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<shevy> craytoon who knows for how long
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