apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<apeiros> why'd you install ruby 1.9.1? that was a development release.
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<withnale> it's not my choice. it's embedded with recent versions of vagrant
<apeiros> you should install 1.9.3, or at the very least 1.9.2 (assuming you must use one from the 1.9 series)
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<apeiros> do you know it is 1.9.1 or are you guessing from that error? because 1.9.3 still is on 1.9.1 ABI (or whatever it is called) and uses the same paths for some things…
<withnale> actually. my mistake. it's version 1.9.3p448 - the directory just says 1.9.1
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<apeiros> ah, ok
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<apeiros> with the other, I can't help. bed time anyway (0200 here). gn8
<withnale> ok. gn
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<orangerobot> i'm requiring a file that is in the same directory and the 'from' file but I'm getting `require': cannot load such file --edge (LoadError). what could be wrong?
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<orangerobot> the file is called edge.rb and i've required it using require 'edge'. isn't this the way it's meant to be?
<Morrolan> Since Ruby 1.9.x, the current directory isn't part of Ruby's load path anymore.
<Morrolan> Use require_relative instead.
<orangerobot> oh i see
<orangerobot> thanks Morrolan
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<orangerobot> that's quite a change, isn't it? it must have broken many a codebase
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<Morrolan> I assume so, yea.
<Morrolan> Though it's something which is quite easy to fix.
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<ru> Quick question, I often see in Ruby classes, an inner class that is anonymous and extends self. Like: class Blah \n class << self .... I am curious what this actually does, and why people do it?
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<r0bgl33s0n> ru: it opens the singleton class of Blah.
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<ru> r0bgl33s0n: huh, so by just class << self, you get a singleton instance of Blah and everything that Blah contains?
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<banisterfiend> ru: depends on what u think a singleton instance is, u should probably google 'ruby eigen class' or sth
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<ru> so does "singleton methods" map (in a basic way) to declared "static" methods in other languages?
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<r0bgl33s0n> for now, yeah, when you understand them, no
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<orangerobot> does anybody know why Ruby isn't recognizing the name RuntimeError as a class name? http://pastie.org/8363601
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<orangerobot> (this is inside a method for a subclass of Test::Unit::TestCase by the way)
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<banisterfiend> r0bgl33s0n hehe nice explanation :)
<banisterfiend> (i agree)
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<ru> interesting, so both classes and modules have eigenclasses, correct?
<Kelet> eigenclasses?
* Kelet runs
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<ru> Kelet: is that not right? The behaviour seems identical in a basic usage between modules with a "class << self" inside of it and classes with the same.
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<banisterfiend> Kelet yeah
<banisterfiend> Kelet nearly every object potentially has an eigen class
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<banisterfiend> Kelet an eigenclass is just a special class that holds methods specific to that object
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<hayleybarker> If I have two Arrays and I wanted to check if array #1 had a value that array #2 had and if it did remove that value for array #1, could I do that with a set?
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<funkster> gotcha, getting error: "uninitialized constant RUBY_ENGINE from"
<funkster> when i do a bundle =(
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<kaushal1> Hi
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<kaushal1> I am new to Ruby Programming Language. Any beginners guide to start with?
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<popl> kaushal1: Sure! Is Ruby your first programming language?
<m00nligh_> kaushal1: maybe you can try http://www.codecademy.com
<kaushal1> popl: I do bash scripting
<kaushal1> ok
<Matix> how do you call a method called method (the variable), with arguments args and the block block?
<popl> oops
<popl> sorry about that. duckduckgo got away from me
<Matix> I want something like this: def method_missing(m, *a, &b) something.send(m, a, b) end
<kaushal1> is ruby a interpreted or compiled language?
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<bnagy> Matix: depends what you want to call the method on
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<bnagy> like, it can't be self, otherwise method_missing wouldn't have fired :)
<Matix> I want to forward the same method, with the same args with the same block
<bnagy> to what?
<Matix> let's say to @foo
<Matix> which is an object of another class
<bnagy> so do that :)
<Matix> but how?
<Matix> .send is not supposed to do that
<Matix> is it?
<Matix> hmn, wait a sec
<bnagy> @foo.send meth, *args
<Matix> ah, ok, you put *args, as the argument
<Matix> @foo.send method, *args, block
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<Matix> I suppose
<Matix> or &block
<Matix> well, I'll try
<kaushal1> is ruby a interpreted or compiled language?
<bnagy> never done it with a block, but I suspect &blk
<bnagy> kaushal1: both, neither, it's not a useful question
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<Matix> yep, it seems it works
<Matix> with &block
<zets> kaushal1: typically interpreted
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<davidcelis> bnagy: ? it's interpreted
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<Mon_Ouie> davidcelis: interpreted/compiled are properties of an implementation, not of the language itself
<davidcelis> ah
<davidcelis> i just assume people mean MRI by default
<Mon_Ouie> And take an implementation like Rubinius, which generates byte code, runs it, and eventually uses a JIT to generate native code. It's hard to call that "interpreting".
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<IcyDragon> gn
<bnagy> not even MRI is really just an interpreter any more
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<coderhs> bnagy: what do you mean?
<bnagy> mainly though I just feel like people asking that question aren't really asking the question they want to ask
<bnagy> well MRI runs bytecode now
<bnagy> not to mention that all of core is C these days
<coderhs> bnagy: ya true, after MRI + rubinous was merged in 1.9
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<coderhs> it started to work like that
<coderhs> just found this good blog post
<bnagy> probably the most that can reliably be said is that 'ruby requires a runtime'
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<coderhs> i believe even python is like that, compiled to bye code
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<bnagy> it definitely is
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<coderhs> bnagy: thats a good thing right? though we can't say ruby is purely interpreter style language.
<coderhs> a lot of such languages follows this format python, lisp, etc
<bnagy> well what Mon_Ouie said is important. The language doesn't mandate how it is run.
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<bnagy> just like you can have multiple C compilers that all output different machine code
<coderhs> bnagy: +1 for that.
<coderhs> language should be like a standard. so people will know what to expect from using it by default.
<coderhs> one can implement them in anyway, one finds fit.
<jrobeson> i think what they really want to know.. is do you have to manually compile it or not.?
<bnagy> who can say?
<bnagy> that's one possible 'real question'
<jrobeson> depends on how much effort it is to find out
<jrobeson> err how much is worth the effort to find out..
<bnagy> another might be 'is it fast?'
<jrobeson> if it's worth a lot.. i'm sure a reasonable survey could be done :)
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<coderhs> jrobeson: +1
<coderhs> or one could point to options, to compile ur code use this
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<coderhs> to just interpret use this
<jrobeson> for ruby?
<coderhs> and for a system like byecode compile followed by interpreter using that
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<coderhs> no in general
<jrobeson> i'm just talking about figuring out what people mean
<jrobeson> i think bnagy is right.. people just care that it's fast, or flexible , or has a repl
<jrobeson> those kinda things
<coderhs> true.
<jrobeson> nobody wants to compile.. they just do it because that's how it works.. computesr are too slow to just sit there and compile a c program over and over again for any codebase of a significant size
<jrobeson> so it is manually triggered
<jrobeson> otherwise.. C would give you the behaviour people except out of interpreted language via some inotify magic (minus the repl)
<jrobeson> expect*
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<jrobeson> although i have heard of C based interpreted languages.
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<interlude> Hi, could someone explain what the $? variable does? Thx
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<popl> ok, nevermind
<popl> people are impatient :P
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<popl> interlude: $? is also called $CHILD_STATUS
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<interlude> Thanks popl
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<shevy> wow
<shevy> am I the only one to find .erb files ugly?
<popl> shevy: shh, we're idling.
<jrobeson> unlikely. since lots of people use haml or slim
<popl> :)
<jrobeson> honestly i'm in the camp of whichever one is sandboxed
<jrobeson> and i haven't seen ones that both have logic and are sandboxed in ruby
<shevy> I am working through a rails tutorial, but that syntax used in erb is totally killing ruby's beauty
<jrobeson> i like twig a lot
<jrobeson> it's basically jinja from django but better
<jrobeson> atm i'm using haml
<apeiros> I find .erb quite ok. but for dense things like html, I indeed prefer haml
<shevy> ninja?
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<jrobeson> jinja..
<jrobeson> i said what i meant :)
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<shevy> the ninja in jinja has some ganja
<jrobeson> it'd be so easy to do twig in ruby compared to php
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<jrobeson> it's got the same {{}} as mustache
<jrobeson> {{ "something" }} or {{ "something"|somefilter|andoranotherone }}
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<jrobeson> it works pretty well the same as how rails (and others do ) with the yield for the innner template and then content_tag and such for blocks
<apeiros> jrobeson: why |
<jrobeson> because it works just like a pipe
<apeiros> jrobeson: why not .
<jrobeson> because it's not a method it's a standalone filter
<apeiros> I didn't get that back in php with smarty templates…
<jrobeson> you can use it everywhere
<apeiros> it works the same as a method as far as I can see
<jrobeson> except you don't have to add it to every single object
<apeiros> so?
<apeiros> invent a new less powerful syntax for what reason?
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<jrobeson> it's sandboxed
<apeiros> still not a good reason for inventing a new syntax
<jrobeson> it's a feature imo.. that people can't write actual ruby code
<apeiros> I didn't say they should allow ruby code in there
<jrobeson> or python .. as it is with jinja
<apeiros> I said it's stupid to invent a new syntax
<jrobeson> how would you handle this thiing
<jrobeson> then*
<apeiros> use . instead of |
<jrobeson> object.method.another.method.filter.filter .. in a less ugly way?
<jrobeson> code wise
<apeiros> no, just "something".somefilter.anotherone
<jrobeson> or object.method.filter.object.method
<jrobeson> becuse it's not always a string, it's usualy a variable
<jrobeson> or an object
<jrobeson> object.method is standard there
<apeiros> jrobeson: so you're saying they let you write ruby code in there now?
<jrobeson> you can reference ruby code.. obviously you need to pass variables to your template
<jrobeson> the templates get filled by controllres or whatnot
<apeiros> jrobeson: I don't get how you come from "use . instead of |" + {{ "something"|somefilter|andoranotherone }} to "object.method.filter.object.method"
<apeiros> are you purposely misinterpreting what I say?
<jrobeson> no.. i think you're not understanding what i'm saying :)
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<apeiros> "use . instead of |" + {{ "something"|somefilter|andoranotherone }} = {{ "something".somefilter.andoranotherone }}
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<apeiros> and I don't see how it'd change just because you have a variable instead of a string literal. same thing really.
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<jrobeson> because "something" is never something
<jrobeson> it's usually variable
<apeiros> so?
<apeiros> {{ avariable.somefilter.andanotherone }} - and the big deal is what?
<jrobeson> what if you want another variable after the filter
<jrobeson> and between the other one
<apeiros> how'd you do it with |'s ?
<jrobeson> at htat point it's more about disambiguation than it is about whether you can do it or not
<jrobeson> that's why i like the |
<jrobeson> because if you nave object with properties, you can do object.property
<jrobeson> and in php land it converts to $object->getProperty
<jrobeson> so with only it.. it would ook wrong to have object.method.filter.filter
<banisterfiend> wrong chan
<banisterfiend> sry
<jrobeson> i think object.method|filter|filter looks better
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<apeiros> I disagree. can filter take arguments?
<jrobeson> yes
<apeiros> let me guess, new syntax for that too?
<jrobeson> {{ [1, 2, 3]|join('|') }}
<jrobeson> or whatever seperator.. the default is ,
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<apeiros> eh, I stay with my opinion. I find it breathtakingly stupid.
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<jrobeson> that's a little over the top..
<jrobeson> pipes are well known concept
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<jrobeson> so i don't see how using them is stupid in any way.
<jrobeson> i can get that you don't like it personally though
<banisterfiend> jrobeson i wrote a thingy to let you use pipes when invoking a chain of ruby functions/methods
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, linky link?
<banisterfiend> jrobeson scroll down to function composition section in this readme: https://github.com/banister/funkify
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<apeiros> jrobeson: a) I doubt that more than say 3% of all those template writers ever worked with pipes in a shell b) it has as much in common with actual pipes as methods have in common with actual pipes, I find that argument moot.
<jrobeson> i've done just that thing with a sed pipe before..
<jrobeson> so that's ridiculous
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<jrobeson> or awk for that matter
<jrobeson> it is truly funkified banisterfiend :)
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<apeiros> jrobeson: sed/awk is a reply to my "3% of template writers"?
<jrobeson> showterm.io.. that's super cool
<jrobeson> they don't know the difference, it doesn't matter to them.. the . would be just the same difficulty
<jrobeson> or non difficulyt
<apeiros> showterm.io is indeed very nice
<jrobeson> i'm the one who always writes the templates first
<jrobeson> and you still don't solve the disambiguation problem without some sort of meta programming
<apeiros> so the "well known concept" is indeed moot. thanks.
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<jrobeson> it's not moot to me
<jrobeson> or other devs
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<jrobeson> like all the people who use django
<jrobeson> or twig itself
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<apeiros> the former I don't doubt and didn't before either if you actually read what I wrote.
<apeiros> the latter I do doubt.
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<jrobeson> if you say so
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<jrobeson> if you come across liek that.. it's understandable
<apeiros> I don't think that "all the people who use django" is equivalent to "all the people who know what a pipe is", by far not.
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<jrobeson> i wasn't attempting to make a concrete logical statement for yo uto tear apart
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<r0bgl33s0n> yeah I think ERB is fine.
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<jrobeson> you personally don't like it.. that's fine..
<apeiros> you say "pipes are a well known concept", I say: "yes, they are, but majority of *template users/writers* are NOT the audience to whom that concept is well known - therefore that point is moot"
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<jrobeson> obviously we have different defintions of who these template writers are
<jrobeson> in my world.. the devs always write the templates first
<jrobeson> i don't work at some big company
<apeiros> yeah, maybe python devs are different
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<jrobeson> i'm not a django dev either..
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<jrobeson> freelancers don't generally have front end devs to rely on
<jrobeson> and there are a ton of those
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<apeiros> IMO you say "I'm a dev, I know pipes, therefore every dev knows pipes". I think that's a fallacy. IME, far too many devs have no clue about how to use a shell, much less pipes in a shell.
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<jrobeson> that does'nt make it not ell known
<jrobeson> just because there are bunch who don't
<jrobeson> that is the fallacy
<jrobeson> i didn't attach any % of devs
<apeiros> "well known" alone is not the point
<apeiros> the point is whether the intersection of "pipe is well known" and "use that template language" is large or not.
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<jrobeson> well i guess yo ucan poll django devs if you really wanna know
<jrobeson> they came up with it afterall
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<apeiros> eh, you're mistaken. they didn't. smarty is a tad older than django.
<jrobeson> from casual observation django devs tend to have a higher level of knowledge of such things compare to folks who got into rails for example
<jrobeson> i'm not sure that the intersection of django devs and smart users is that high either
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<apeiros> and smarty being php, I'd say the guys using that know even less than people getting into rails.
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<jrobeson> to know if that is where the idea came from
<jrobeson> or if the yjust choose it because it makes sense for filters..
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<jrobeson> banisterfiend, that's neat stuff there (mult(5) | add(1) | negate).(3) #=> -16
<jrobeson> this one is more readable tho pass(3) >= mult(5) | add(1) | negate #=> -16
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, what's your opinion on elixir then?
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<jrobeson> autocurry magic..
<banisterfiend> jrobeson nothing other than someone told me elixir has something similar :)
<platzhirsch> Any idea how to delete certain characters from a string only from the left and right side? like .lstrip and .rstrip? For instance: "(mushr.ooms.)".magic(".)(;,') => "mushrooms
<apeiros> >> 13:09 jrobeson: i'm not sure that the intersection of django devs and smart users is that high either
<eval-in> apeiros => /tmp/execpad-2bb2cd336e51/source-2bb2cd336e51:2: syntax error, unexpected ':', expecting keyword_end ... (https://eval.in/51473)
<banisterfiend> jrobeson i got the idea from haskell
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, well i'm sure haskell was some sort of inspiration as well
<apeiros> doesn't need to be large. unless you imply that it needed lots of django devs to come up with that template language
<jrobeson> you must be great fun at parties
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<apeiros> jrobeson: sure. at parties people don't try to apply utterly broken logic, so I can be fun :-p
<platzhirsch> Either I write a state machine or just throw a regular expression at it
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<bnagy> platzhirsch: I don't really understand your example
<jrobeson> i wasn't trying to do a formal logical debate at 6am.. on no sleep
<jrobeson> so we learned somethign today
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<popl> apeiros: what sort of parties have you been going to? ;P
<jrobeson> you think i' mi an idiot and i think you're an asshole. what a great day
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<popl> wow
<popl> dude, take a nap
<apeiros> that escalated quickly
<popl> have a snickers
<apeiros> and yeah, what pop said
<platzhirsch> bnagy: There are characters like brackets, dots. etc. Which I only want to remove if they are on the right oder left side of a string. So if in the middle there are letters or numbers with a dot, that should stay
<apeiros> *popl
<bnagy> platzhirsch: what defines the 'sides'?
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<bnagy> maybe just split on that, process, rejoin
<platzhirsch> bnagy: The sides? It's just left and right. Strip away all the messy characters until you meet a letter of digit on the left and right side if not, well guess we have an empty string
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<platzhirsch> bnagy: but that would lead to a chain of many split method calls for all the different characters, wouldn't it?
<bnagy> this looks like it's going to be a regexp :/
<bnagy> on the plus side, probably a trivial one
<apeiros> jrobeson: I don't think you're an idiot. But I do think that your arguments didn't make a lot of sense and/or where self-contradicting. sad that you think I'm an asshole for pointing it out. but that's your business.
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<jrobeson> i wasn't trying to have a formal argument with bullet proof points. i didn't make any specific citations about anything..
<bnagy> platzhirsch: can you come up with an example dirty string and its clean equivalent?
<platzhirsch> bnagy: I was starting with something like this here [^.|,|;]\w[^.|,|;]
<platzhirsch> yes, let's see
<apeiros> jrobeson: why are you then so pissed if I point out that your non-formal arguments don't hold water?
<apeiros> anyway, I think it's better we stop that. get some sleep :-)
<platzhirsch> bnagy: ";(Cow)-5.6.,)(" should become Cow)-5.6
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<apeiros> platzhirsch: if I understand you correctly, I'd indeed use a regex with either 2 subs or 1 gsub
<bnagy> I think I'd write two subs
<apeiros> 2 subs solution: str.sub(/\A[chars]*/, '').sub(/[chars]*\z/, '')
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<apeiros> gsub solution: str.gsub(/\A[chars]*|[chars]*\z/, '')
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<shevy> that poor cow
<bnagy> wait I'm pretty tired, but don't you need to group for the subs?
<shevy> you try to expand the poor cow :(
<apeiros> bnagy: group?
<apeiros> in the gsub?
<jrobeson> nostly because you had 0 proof on your side either.. you made your own assumptions about it (except aobut the smarty bit, i know nothing about that)
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<bnagy> >> ";(Cow)-5.6.,)(".split(/(\w.*\w)/)[1]
<eval-in> bnagy => "Cow)-5.6" (https://eval.in/51475)
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<jrobeson> so i can only assume that you're right about that.. it's not really worth looking up.. i don't see why i shouldn't take it at face value
<apeiros> jrobeson: I didn't claim to have proof. yes, I made assumptions and worked from that. but you didn't attack my assumptions.
<bnagy> how about a variation of that? use the power of greedy
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<jrobeson> apeiros, because i'm not that kinda person
<apeiros> huh?
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<jrobeson> i assume you're a smart guy who might know what they are talking about ..
<jrobeson> s/guy/person/
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<platzhirsch> bnagy: very nice
<apeiros> jrobeson: also I clearly declared my assumptions. see scrollback: "I think XXX"
<apeiros> clearly labels assumptions.
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<bnagy> platzhirsch: you might need to tweak those fenceposts around the .* depending, but you get the idea I guess
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<platzhirsch> bnagy: it's actually an extension to my first regular expression. I need to tokenize a sentence into words. Apparently, there are no word tokenizer, since everyone seemed fine with /\w+/. The problem with w+ is it splits umlauts ä ö ü and numbers 7.4 into 7 and 4. So I use S+. Which is feasible if you just want to count the words, but for comparison you need to strip off special characters which are still attached to some words
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<apeiros> platzhirsch: \p{Letter}
<apeiros> instead of \w
<bnagy> man I must be asleep, I don't know how I misead apeiros sub approach, that's fine as well
<apeiros> \w worked in 1.8 with //u
<bnagy> ok I need to sleep :)
<jrobeson> apeiros, i never think about "think" that way ..
<apeiros> >> "Hägar störte sich sehr am Benehmen des Lokomotivführers".scan(/\p{Letter}{2,}/)
<eval-in> apeiros => ["Hägar", "störte", "sich", "sehr", "am", "Benehmen", "des", "Lokomotivführers"] (https://eval.in/51476)
<jrobeson> i "think" that's usually just people being polite
<bnagy> don't tokenise utf8 'words' with regex is my advice :<
<jrobeson> or attempting to be..
<platzhirsch> apeiros: nice
<platzhirsch> it removes numbers though, mh
<apeiros> might want to throw in word-connectors too.
<apeiros> platzhirsch: ah, ok. well, adapt it then to your specific needs :)
<bnagy> isn't there a string scanner, or is it bad?
<apeiros> jrobeson: ok
<apeiros> jrobeson: lets call it a misunderstanding then
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<platzhirsch> well, I am actually not sure if I want to keep the numbers, count them, etc.. Thanks in any way, that's really helpful
<apeiros> jrobeson: and us having different opinions on how good a choice | is for filters
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<bnagy> bed. srsly. Night ruby.
<apeiros> n8 bnagy
<platzhirsch> gn8
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<popl> goodnate?
<jrobeson> apeiros, it is likely that i live in far more passive-aggressive world than you do
<popl> :)
<apeiros> jrobeson: heh, so misunderstanding + cultural differences? :)
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<apeiros> jrobeson: look, I don't hold any grudge against you, neither do I think that you having a different opinion on something makes you stupid or something
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<jrobeson> "I think" is usually code for "i know , but i'm too modest to say so"
<apeiros> I might also be too naive to notice passive-aggressive behaviors ;-)
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<popl> I think that depends on the circumstances. :P
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<jrobeson> popl, among friends is certainly different
<jrobeson> at work tho..
<apeiros> hm
<platzhirsch> jrobeson: Where are you from if I may ask
<popl> I am not sure that's the right delineation. Some people are honest and straightforward while others try to be tactful (which may be considered deceitful).
<jrobeson> from.. mostly a resort town in virginia
<apeiros> yeah, it's sometimes difficult to distinguish
<jrobeson> and this is work to me mostly..
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<jrobeson> a part of it
<apeiros> when tact becomes dishonest. and when honesty becomes rude.
<popl> My work will be unloading trucks at Wal-Mart soon. \o/
<jrobeson> that is it it right there..
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<popl> apeiros: who knows?
<jrobeson> it wasn't a question it wa a statement
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<popl> hey, updatedb is running. am I really up that late? :P
<apeiros> lol
<jrobeson> my updatedb runs at 4am.. and i was for sure there..
<jrobeson> and prelink..
<apeiros> 13:40 here, I'm definitively not up late :o)
<popl> 04:41
<popl> you're a minute off apeiros
<apeiros> why are you still up? o0
<jrobeson> 7:401
<jrobeson> err 7:41
<MrZYX> popl: I think you're off by > 30 secs
<apeiros> sure? this laptop should synchronize with an atomic clock somewhere…
<platzhirsch> 13.40 but was up till 6am, refactoring frenzy \o/
<platzhirsch> apeiros: you are off the grid
<popl> MrZYX: maybe
* popl checks his ntp daemon
<apeiros> maybe I'm just moving too close to light speed…
<gcds_> Hey guys how to debug why the functions get stack level too deep? like to get who calls it is possible?
<jrobeson> the funny part of banisterfiend's auto currying.. is that it ends up feeling the same as any other OO stuff except the Proc
<popl> MrZYX: what time do you have?
<MrZYX> (13:42:27) popl: MrZYX: what time do you have?
<banisterfiend> jrobeson ? :)
<apeiros> gcds_: usually you should get it by inspecting the backtrace of the exception
<gcds_> it doesnt throw
<gcds_> just stack level to deep
<apeiros> how do you know it's "stack level too deep" then? o0
<gcds_> and function which gets to deep
<apeiros> are you in pry?
<popl> MrZYX: 29 Sep 04:43:16 ntpdate[12077]: step time server 128.10.19.24 offset -63.627523 sec # a few seconds ago
<popl> MrZYX: are you sure it's not you? :)
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<popl> oh wait
<platzhirsch> dudumm
<gcds_> ah shit..... :DDDDDD
<gcds_> How dump I am
<gcds_> I called a class Redis and calling redis inside that class
<gcds_> **** two days trying to find wtf happens...
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, perhaps you might be the guy who makes everybody grok functional programming.. but i was quite suprised you ahdn't looked into elixir yet.. i did .. but i idn't understand as much as you would
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<jrobeson> the article i read spend a lot of time talking about how it was in relatino to erlang
<jrobeson> and my erlang skills are .. poor to the say the least
<banisterfiend> jrobeson just that if i want to learn functional programming i'd rather learn it via a pure language like haskell :) i'm by no means an expert at haskell, but i really like the ideas there
<jrobeson> i wrote a patch to ejabberd once.. that's about it..
<popl> bah, now it's ok
<gcds_> RubyMine should something like checking if created class exists...
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, but.. last time i looked .. haskell's standard library was quite limited t compared to ruby.. ecosystem generally as well
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<jrobeson> so, i think more introductions to techniques would serve people well to want to go out and make stuff
<jrobeson> training wheels basically..
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<banisterfiend> jrobeson not anymore i think, haskell is doing really well atm, their irc channel is a lot larger than #ruby :)
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<jrobeson> hmm? i guess that's changed really quickly then
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<banisterfiend> jrobeson yeah, they even have some pretty nice 2D game programming libs
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<jrobeson> banisterfiend, can one write any program that one could write in ruby in haskell now? (library wise)
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<jrobeson> even node.. which is seemingly more popular than haskell still can't say that yet
<banisterfiend> jrobeson i'd say so. Clearly the web frameworks aren't as well developed yet though
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<spider-mario> Yesod
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<jrobeson> i remember db stuff still being quote poor in node relatively
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, that's interesting to hear ..
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<banisterfiend> jrobeson i'd like to use haskell in a situation where other people use Go, and see which one performs better
<spider-mario> ( http://www.yesodweb.com/ to be more explicit)
<banisterfiend> spider-mario how does that compare to snap in your opinion?
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<jrobeson> banisterfiend, i wonder how that 2d lib game lib would fare against this slightly old article about functional programming i just reread
<spider-mario> relies more on Template Haskell, which makes it safer
<spider-mario> I’ve also read that it performs better
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<spider-mario> (by “safer”, I mean that there are statically-checked URLs, for example)
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<jrobeson> about the same topic.. that's why i bring it up.
<jrobeson> banisterfiend, hmm.. Go vs haskell vs rust then..
<jrobeson> i wonder who would win
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<spider-mario> I wouldn’t bet on Go
<jrobeson> i wonder if somebody could implement something like the beam vm for haskell..
<jrobeson> spider-mario, performance wise? or generally?
<spider-mario> mainly performance-wise
<spider-mario> but I don’t think it’s a good language either
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<jrobeson> well performance is certainly not the only metric.. otherwise nobody would code ruby
<spider-mario> (I think I’d even go as far as calling it a terrible language)
<jrobeson> spider-mario, well i haven't seen a good language ever tho.. soo..
<jrobeson> only less bad ones..
<spider-mario> there are many better languages, at least
<jrobeson> spider-mario, like?
<jrobeson> in your opinion only obviously..
<spider-mario> ruby, rust, python, haskell, perl
<spider-mario> maybe even C++
<jrobeson> ah.. so rust and ruby over Go got it
<jrobeson> hmm.. i looked at go.. and it looked like a better C
<spider-mario> Nimrod looks interesting, too
<jrobeson> and that's ok ..
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<spider-mario> too bad it doesn’t want tabs in source code :(
<spider-mario> I like tabs
<jrobeson> ah i hate tabs
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<spider-mario> they’re semantically superior
<jrobeson> that's not weighing heavily in your decision is it?
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<spider-mario> I wish it weren’t
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<jrobeson> lots of things are semantically superior.. :)
<jrobeson> i still have to markup my html with crapola because flexbox barely exists ;(
<spider-mario> oh, how could I forget Scala.
<spider-mario> Scala’s nice, too
<jrobeson> ok.. so how about lispy stuff?
<spider-mario> I miss syntax
<spider-mario> I like syntax, I want some
<jrobeson> i never actually coded in smalltalk myself, but that was the 2nd/3rd thing i read about OO stuffs.. after C++/java
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<jrobeson> and that is when i really thought.. ah this makes sense
<jrobeson> when iwas really n00b
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<jrobeson> spider-mario, () are enough for everyone!
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<jrobeson> that' all you need
<jrobeson> everybody get some..
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<spider-mario> it makes structure less obvious
<gcds_> could someone help me how to do such thing... I have gem named beefeater-redis which has module redis.rb and I am using gem Redis somehow Redis module name and Redis class name intercepts and used only module not redis :(
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<gcds_> Yes :: before redis worked out :)
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<shevy> tabs are absolutely inferior to spaces
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<lessless> folks, memo in Mongo::Collection.reduce is initialized with first record, and obj with second, is this a correct behaviour?
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<lessless> why memo is empty on the each iteration https://gist.github.com/dirty-hippie/6752313 ?
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<Mon_Ouie> The initial value of memo is an empty string "", and you never modify it
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie s'lut
<Mon_Ouie> 'alut
<Mon_Ouie> lessless: Oh and now that I understand your first question (I think, I believe you're talking about argument order), yes, it's normal. inject/reduce always behave like that.
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<Mon_Ouie> (with arguments in reverse order compared to each_with_object if you will, keeping in mind that the two methods do very different things)
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<apeiros> but they both iterate over stuff!
* apeiros hides
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<Muhammad_> Hi
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<Muhammad_> What does 'chomp' stands for?(I know that it removes the black line which is added by ruby but I wanna know it's driver from which vocabulary)
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<Muhammad_> *blank
<Muhammad_> *drived
<Muhammad_> *derived
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<volty> chomp = chew off
<volty> cut the extreme
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<Mon_Ouie> He left though
<volty> was not interested enough :)
<volty> thx
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<apeiros> I don't get such people
<apeiros> but well, I guess there's always the possibility of technical issues
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<shevy> I dont think he was using ruby
<shevy> he is still on freenode, so he cant be a total IRC noob
<volty> so i enabled (on hide join/leave) 'except for the nicks active within last our' - nice feature (konversation)
<shevy> I never see any join or leave events
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<shevy> and no timestamps either, IRC is one big fat perma-idling scroll here
<shevy> but there can be only one winning, the king of the idlers!
<volty> too many idlers
<volty> do they count as counters ? :)
<Monie> :o
<shevy> yeah they all count
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<shevy> 811 people here. how many in % have never written anything here?
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<Monie> we could easily calculate that
<Monie> using logs
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<Elinos> are we all allowed to talk in here?
<Elinos> well i guess yes ;)
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<shevy> I estimate at max 300 people here said something the last 12 months
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<shevy> cool
<shevy> I did not know there exists syscall()
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<waxjar> hehe "syscall is essentially unsafe and unportable. Feel free to shoot your foot."
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> but I could use it to simulate print
<shevy> on the mailing list someone showed this snippet:
<shevy> syscall(137,fn,b)
<shevy> where b is
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<shevy> b = ' ' * 128
<shevy> and fn is an input to a method
<shevy> wondering what is 137 though
<shevy> or rather, how to find out hmmm
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<canton7> read someone's syscall.h?
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<shevy> aha
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<shevy> ugh that is all a mess
<shevy> one syscall.h redirects to <sys/syscall.h>
<shevy> that one then redirects to <bits/syscall.h>
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<volty> shevy: leave it or decide to pass on system programming :)
<shevy> and that last one has a lot of #defines but does not seem to tell me how to map 137 to anything
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<shevy> volty I dont want to program, I want to find out what 137 is
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<volty> seems dup
<volty> ops
<volty> rmdir
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<shevy> hmmmm
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<shevy> seems terminate no? http://asm.sourceforge.net/syscall.html#1
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<shevy> ah well
<shevy> staring at C stuff makes the eyes bleed
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<volty> elegant ways to iterate over two enumerables at once?
<MrZYX> hm, .zip maybe?
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<banisterfiend> volty or you can use external iterators
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<MrZYX> >> 3.times.zip(3.times)
<eval-in> MrZYX => [[0, 0], [1, 1], [2, 2]] (https://eval.in/51482)
<banisterfiend> >> a = (1..5).each; b = ('a'..'e').each; loop { puts "#{a.next} #{b.next}" }
<eval-in> banisterfiend => 1 a ... (https://eval.in/51483)
<banisterfiend> >> a = (1..5).each; b = ('a'..'e').each; loop { print "#{a.next} #{b.next}" }
<eval-in> banisterfiend => 1 a2 b3 c4 d5 enil (https://eval.in/51484)
<volty> zip is nice for small arrays, though iterators go better for big ones // thx all
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<volty> banisterfiend i'll try to put that into a module for an enumerator
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<heftig> i once used externals to iterate over over 70000 iterators at once
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<heftig> it crashed ruby
<heftig> (FiberError)
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<heftig> >> def cpl(a);return 0 if a.empty?;e1,*er=a.map(&:each_char);s=0;loop{c=e1.next;return s unless er.all?{|x|x.next==c};s+=1};s;end;p cpl(["x"]*70000)
<eval-in> heftig => can't alloc machine stack to fiber (FiberError) ... (https://eval.in/51485)
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<heftig> for me it's "mprotect failed" instead of an allocation error
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<heftig> goes up to about 20G virt and 400MB rss, then fails
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<heftig> MRI 2.0, that is. rubinius manages
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<heftig> jruby goes OOM after eating up about 70G virt and 1G rss
<volty> it is all the same, mprotect doesn't allow for more stack memory
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<heftig> actually, jruby fails because it creates a kernel thread for each fiber
<heftig> so it creates 20000 threads and then fails
<heftig> volty: nonsense; fibers create more stacks, they don't eat a single stack's memory
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<volty> heftig: i just meant that stack needs memory and the os finished feeding it with memory
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<heftig> volty: no, it didn't
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<heftig> neither RSS nor VIRT was anywhere near the limits
<volty> in response to your «for me it's "mprotect failed" instead of an allocation error» - that is a nonsense since mprotect does not allow for more allocation
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<heftig> volty: i assume ruby has a bug, which is why the mprotect call fails
<volty> you can change the limits but the specific error (of course after "eating" more memory) will be the same - and pertinent!
<heftig> no no no
<heftig> the issue is not a OOM
<r0bgl33s0n> jruby is quite the memory muncher
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<volty> heftig: I agree if you are saying that the ruby interpreter should check if it can allocate that memory for its stack
<heftig> volty: as I said it's not a OOM issue
<heftig> something else goes wrong, and mprotect is called with bad parameters
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<volty> mah! for me, our discussion depends too much on the exact meaning of our words
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<volty> the best way is to look at the source
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<volty> i see that there is a specific message, from fiber, that says it cannot alloc stack // if you say that your machine can give much more memory to ruby it means 1) ruby does not calculate well how much it should allocate for the stack OR 2) gone beyond physical addressing limits
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<volty> OR 3) ruby intentionally limited the size of the stack
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<platzhirsch> Wafer papers are a create way to consume Guarana powder
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<apeiros> s/create/great/?
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<platzhirsch> apeiros: err, yes. A great way
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<shevy> waffles papers?
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<Morrolan> I read that as 'Guano', and was slightly confused. :/
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<platzhirsch> shevy: no wafer paper
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<shevy> Morrolan hehehe
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<platzhirsch> I make it a bit wet with water and then form a medicine package out of it
<shevy> who would want guano on his papers wrapped around waffles anyway
<shevy> a medicine package?
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<platzhirsch> lol
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<platzhirsch> dung of sea bird
<shevy> you can smoke that stuff?
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<platzhirsch> no Guarana, it's like a caffeine pill
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<platzhirsch> Tastes awful, it's advertised to be used in yogurt, etc. but it contaminates everything and tastes very sandy. This way the taste is neutralized
<platzhirsch> What's state of the art to define an alias class method? class << self; alias.. ; end or self.singleton_class.alias_method.. ?
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<waxjar> alias_method is private i think
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<shevy> platzhirsch dunno... does that work what you tried?
<platzhirsch> shevy: yeah
<shevy> cool
<platzhirsch> well both works, I use class << self, find it still idiomatic
<platzhirsch> with singleton_class you have to use alias_method though
<platzhirsch> as opposed to alias
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<platzhirsch> mh, maybe I should have compiled my regexp before applying it over and over again to each word in each text of each record...
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<platzhirsch> does not seem to make a difference, hmpf
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<lessless> how to remove element in the embedded document in the mongo db? ie, an element in the scores array in the data structure like this https://gist.github.com/dirty-hippie/6756261 ?
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<platzhirsch> lessless: not sure, but don't you load your entity, change the content of the embedded document and make a call to save, respectively update_attributes?
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<lessless> that can work
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<lessless> but updating the whole document looks like an expensive way
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<xcv> hey guys, I'm getting a hard-to-fix bug while trying to install mime-types 1.25: http://pastie.org/8364610
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<xcv> I put a puts statement in the code that's raising the error, and it's to do with psych trying to parse the gemspec for the mime-types gem and running into a syntax error
<xcv> but that's surprising, since surely the gem wouldn't be pushed like that with an invalid gemspec?
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<xcv> I'm quite baffled
<r0bgl33s0n> xcv: did you have the same problem on MRI?
<xcv> not sure
<xcv> should it matter?
<r0bgl33s0n> it might
<r0bgl33s0n> it could be something unique to jruby
<xcv> ah, maybe jruby has a different YAML parser there
<apeiros> Successfully installed mime-types-1.25
<xcv> mm
<apeiros> just tried to reproduce your problem. will try with jruby too.
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<xcv> thanks
<xcv> :)
<apeiros> maybe you need to delete your local copy/cache
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<xcv> I thought I did (used 'gem sources -c', and removed the cache dir under the gemset I'm using) but the bundler output still looked like it was trying to use the cached version
<xcv> which is rather baffling
<xcv> alternatively, I could be a gibbering fool who doesn't know how to clear his cache.
<apeiros> Successfully installed mime-types-1.25 - that's with current jruby
<xcv> hmm
<xcv> yeah, wouldn't make sense either
<apeiros> I suggest you update your ruby and rubygems installation
<xcv> they'd test it for jruby as well on their travis setup
<xcv> the mime-types guys, that is
<xcv> ok
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<xcv> I'm using jruby-1.7.3 and the newest version of rubygems
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<xcv> tried doing it with jruby-1.7.4 but it made no difference
<apeiros> I don't remember how to delete the local copy rubygems creates when downloading, though
<xcv> yeah
<xcv> l
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<xcv> ok, I'll try uninstalling jruby along with all the gems and doing a fresh install of the gemset
<xcv> see if that changes anything
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<xcv> these bundler/gem/rvm issues always feel so arcane and arbitrary
<xcv> luckily they haven't bitten me often and it's a lovely system 360 days a year!
<xcv> :)
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<xcv> ok, works now - uninstalled and installed jruby, updated gem and then ran bundle install without a hiccup
<xcv> thanks for the help!
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<r0bgl33s0n> xcv: success
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<bnagy> yawn
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<popl> bnagy: cover your mouth
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<bnagy> OmO
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<byprdct> does anyone know of a gem or something the like that would enable me to compile filter feeds based on many feeds that meet specific guidelines? e.g. If this feed has x amount of likes or x amount of plus or retweets etc?
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<zastern> Silly question: Do I ever want to use `load` instead of `reqiure`?
<bnagy> almost never
<volty> require does not reload
<volty> if already loaded
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<zastern> I know, that's why I asked.
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<volty> zastern: you will never want unless you'll want
<zastern> I guess I can imagine a scenario where you would specifically want to reload.
<volty> yes, but be patient, wait for that scenario to come to you :)
<r0bgl33s0n> if you want to load a file a second time or load a file that doesn't have a .rb suffix Kernel#load is what you're looking for.
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<davidcelis> loading a .rake file that has some tasks is the only place I use Kernel#load
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