apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 1.9.3-p286: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
<Sou|cutter> event-based program is not the solution to scaling everything
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<mrj> Is there a beginngers-ruby chat or is this it?
<joofsh> I've never used it personally. I was at DCweek (tech conference in DC) last week, and there was a showcase of 30+ hot new startups, it seemed more were looking for node developers than rils
<joofsh> which i was surprised by
<blazes816> mrj: this is it
<havenn> mrj: This is it.
<shevy> mrj: this is the best ruby channel here
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<blazes816> oh wow
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<joofsh> ^^ that was awesome lol
<blazes816> shevy thrownin it down
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<mrj> lol, okay thanks
<nateberkopec> how do I interpolate inside of %q( ) style string literals?
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<lewis> hi
<Sou|cutter> nateberkopec: use %Q
<lewis> did any of you guys come from a different career path
<nateberkopec> Sou|cutter: d'oh. thanks.
<havenn> lewis: Yeah, lots of us.
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<joofsh> lol nice
<lewis> I'm curious to know how you managed to make the switch
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<havenn> lewis: No sleep.
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<shevy> lewis: what do you mean with career?
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<blazes816> lewis: what do you do now?
<shevy> anyway, I am not a programmer
<blazes816> the pimp to engineer path is pretty rough
<dankest> I was studying neuroscience before I got in to tech
<dankest> wooo
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<lewis> especially how you managed your time to learn the necessary skills to obtain web,app,softw engineering jobs
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<lewis> most jobs won't take you in if you just know the basics
<dankest> I dunno, I would say pimping totally prepares you to be a freelancer: "WHERE'S MY MONEY?!"
<lewis> dankest, wow you sound like someone from a blog I read
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<blazes816> dankest: it's too easy to forget what you're doing and start slapping people around
<dankest> It's so true
<shevy> the dreamjob
<shevy> become boss and boss other people around
<mrj> lewis I'm a network/virtualization engineer
<lewis> right but at the same time you need money to survive
<lewis> anyways, props to you guys who managed to do the switch
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<mrj> I've gotten lazy so I'm now forcing myself to either learn a new language/server (oracle, etc) every weekend.. or continue my project from last weekend
<lewis> blazes816: i have a math background - data analysis
<ddd> i came from being a soldier to a programmer. (I blew things up for a living) Knew it wouldn't be easy to go it professionally, however its definitely the right choice
<blazes816> lewis: that puts you in a much better position than I figured you were in
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<lewis> ddd: nice
<havenn> lewis: If you love doing it in your spare time, do that as much as you can! If you are passionate about learning you'll end up in a position to take a spot at something like Hacker School or get a junior level dev job.
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<blazes816> lewis: you need to program and love programming. you can't just say "i'm going to set aside x hours a week to learn this programming thing". you need to live and breath it.
<ddd> blazes816++
<havenn> ^
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<lewis> blazes816: ya but knwoing the basic syntax of languages such as ruby python C don't put me even close to an entry level job
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<mrj> you'd be surprised
<blazes816> lewis: nope. but if you genuinely love doing it you'll soon get far based just knowing basic syntax
<shevy> lewis: then start building things that are useful
<lewis> knowing* so I got to set time to actually master those, which I have a hard time doing
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<blazes816> lewis: you have to make about a billion pieces of crap before you start to have any idea what's even happening
<blazes816> at least, that was my experience
<ddd> not to mention working on open source projects and making lots of pull requests and commits on projects that take you in can help get you in the door too.
<mrj> Anyway, whenever I learn a language (python, tcl, c#) I plan out a complete project and build everything for it no matter how long it takes. Unless I find that I really don't enjoy the language (perl) as I work on it
<havenn> lewis: Yeah, it can take a bit more, but once you have a few projects on Github and a few OS comits, you're golden.
<havenn> commits*
<havenn> mrj: What do you think of Perl6?
<ddd> its a world-viewable resume of sorts
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<lewis> blazes816: i wish i wasn't working I would have done all that in like two months - but right now im going at aluggish speed
<mrj> havenn honestly I haven't touched perl in years because of that first attempt
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<mrj> The thought of being a perl developer full time blows my mind
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<blazes816> lewis: that sucks man. I was lucky enough to be programming long before I ever needed a job
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<blazes816> <3 perl
<havenn> lewis: Can you make a Ruby gem that summarizes any given website in Haiku format? I'd like that gem. Even stuff like that will oddly get you hired. :P
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<mrj> lewis I work 60-70hours a week.. I just force myself to set a schedule where I'll stop whatever I'm doing (outside of work) and work on something
<mrj> I'm by no means perfect though
<blazes816> don't be modest mrj, yes you are
<havenn> mrj: I have impostor syndrome all the time. I did in law too though.
<Ontolog> I have a module that I want included into some classes. However I don't want all the methods in the module included, only some. However the included methods must be able to call out to the methods that were not included. How do I handle this?
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<Jdubs> @ontolog, just include them all then :P
<lewis> mrj: i see
<ddd> for me I came at it a different way. I got hurt in the service, and holding a regular day job due to the injuries is almost impossible. So I needed something to keep me from going nuts in the head. I was already a computer geek, so I tried my hand at programming. I wasn't even caring if I liked it or not. Just needed something to *do*. However, the programming bug has bitten me hard. I spend gobs and gobs of hours a day trying to learn more and more. I just can't
<Ontolog> Jdubs: my question is specifically how to avoid including them all
<lewis> havenn: no sir
<mrj> havenn hahah. I love that syndrome. I don't really think that's me.. I have more of a "never-satisfied" syndrome
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<ddd> the ability to create something that starts out as just some intangible idea in the human head, and then eventually becomes translated into a 'concrete' idea in code.. something about that process just has me hooked like a fish on a line. I just can't get enough of it.
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<lewis> hmm
<lewis> i wish they gave loan for people to take that shot lol
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<lewis> or that they would stop hiring experience over passion - they always end up hiring the safest person even though they say they want innovation,creativity,blabla
<ddd> havenn: hehe my friends (some of them pretty well known in the ruby and rails communities) throw that wikipedia entry at me all the damned time. its become like their mantra to me, because I'm always doubting what I can do because I see others working for big companies, their name's thrown around all over the place. Makes me feel like I'm just a pretender sometimes
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<Jdubs> @lewis I know what you mean, i spent about 12 hours a day right now trying to research programming, and learning it etc...I'm very passionate, I'd love to have a job :)
<mrj> ddd I've worked for big companies (not google or anything, but defense contractors, Lockheed, etc) and I refuse to work in any of them nowadays.
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<mrj> On the flip side I absolutely love startups
<blazes816> just went from Cisco to a startup. best move I've ever made
<mrj> blazes816 the lack of red tape and having creative power is great isnt it?
<blazes816> oh yeah
<blazes816> t
<blazes816> he
<mrj> I will say though, some startups are terrible. I learned a lot about processes that I hadn't learned in 10 years of working when I was at Rackspace
<blazes816> the first day I I found a small bug and they were like "so fix it and deploy it". I was like "what?! no writing a spec about it for 4 weeks?!"
<mrj> They've got some brilliant management there
<mrj> yep
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<blazes816> yeah, when I was at cisco i actually spent most of my time working with rackspace (openstack). they were awesome people
<ddd> mrj: i'm a startup of sorts. I started my own consulting business. Since I couldn't go work for others (sometimes I move the wrong way and the body just refuses to cooperate so I end up with unacceptable downtime to an employer), I figured Id try to work for myself. I've landed a couple contracts, one of which is still running and is slated for long-term. Its those little victories that keep you going, I guess.
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<mrj> blazes816 it's an incredible company to work for. By far the best I've ever been at. I just couldn't take living in san antonio anymore.
<mrj> Especially after leaving austin (where I'm back)
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<lewis> ddd: what do you consult on
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<mrj> ddd I work for a MSP/consultant group that has about 4 total employees now
<ddd> lewis: network deployments, software proposals, rewrites, stuff like that.
<blazes816> yeah, that'd be rough. I moved from kansas to san francisco during my cisco -> startup transition and it's strange, but a change of scenery was a nice benefit to the job
<lewis> Jdubs: what do you do on the side
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<mrj> blazes816 I love SF. Still there?
<blazes816> yep
<blazes816> just moved out here in august
<mrj> I need to make it out there eventually. The industry in Austin is still pretty weak
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<Jdubs> @lewis nothing much right now, I'm on a 6month holiday to figure out where I'm going with life...I decided that I'm going to become a programmer, so now I'm passionately devoting as much time as I can to it until my holiday is over. I've applied to a programming bootcamp as well, I pray that I get in!
<havenn> I moved to LA a year ago. Lots more going on here than there was in Rochester, MN.
<blazes816> yeah, I bet. it's crazy how much tech stuff is out here
<mrj> Los Angeles or Louisana?
<ddd> mrj: yeah its not the size of the company I've come to realize, its who you work with, deal with, etc. I rather like that.
<havenn> Los Angeles!
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<blazes816> haha
<mrj> eww LA.. haha
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<havenn> I'd never survive in New Orleans, I like their diet of cream, tequila, and shrimp etc too much...
<lewis> Jdubs: six month holiday?! wow
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<mrj> Jdubs the hacker news bootcamp?
<Jdubs> @mrj App Academy
<blazes816> Jdubs: did you know any programming before your holiday began?
<mrj> Er yeah that one
<ddd> lewis: Bear in mind, I also am going back to college in Jan for additional skills training. Not the only way to do it, but i figure practical field work (contracts) coupled with official schooling, I should be good :)
<Jdubs> @lewis, Yeah I saved up to take a 6month holiday to visit family in europe
<lewis> Jdubs: you're too used to twitter buddy
<Jdubs> @lewis I don't use twitter...
<blazes816> @lewis #haha
<Jdubs> the @ symbol means AT
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<lewis> Jdubs: oh my god lucky you. where are you right now
<Jdubs> @lewis Wales
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<ddd> lewis: and I'm hitting google, vidcasts, podcasts, tutorials, writing tons of broken shit and figuring out *why* its broken, and then fixing it each and every day. I swear its addictive shit! hehe :)
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<Jdubs> @blazes816 did some C, html, css and MIRC scripting before this. Nothing really substantial though
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<blazes816> Jdubs: nice. any experience helps. good luck with the post-holiday time
<mrj> Man I absolutely despise web development
<Jdubs> ddd: This channel is great man, I've learned more in a few days coming here than i did in all the time previous to coming here i think
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<Jdubs> @blazes816 Yeah, I'm trying to build a portfolio of whatever I can as well
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<ddd> lewis: (i mention this on the grounds I'm thinking you're looking for how to either improve or learn, coming from doing something else)
<mrj> I was attempting to make a new website for my VPS provider using twitters bootstrap and I spent all weekend on it. I really don't think I enjoyed a second of it; http://sensiblevps.com/Nightly/
<mrj> Never was much of a design guy
<lewis> ddd: wow. I'm really revisiting my options here..i need time to focus on what i like
<ddd> Jdubs: yep. I lurk quite a bit, help out when I know something, apply what I see others talking about to things I'm doing, etc.
<lewis> ddd: you should also consult in self development ;) thanks for the help
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<ddd> lewis: hehe welcome. the only real prerequisite is a desire to really and *truly* help yourself. If you're expecting people to hand you things on a silver platter, you're oh so in the wrong spot. But if you really and truly desire to learn and get good at what you're doing, this is definitely one of the places to be.
<mrj> Yeah. You have the ability to make your own bed.. make it nice
<blazes816> ddd += 1
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<ddd> and your only real limit is the limits to A) your google-fu, B) your willingness to chase the information, and C) the speed of your own learning and thus retainment.
<mrj> yup
<lewis> well said
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<mrj> I get so incredibly sad when someone tells me that they want to learn programming, or anything else yet they think they need to be taught over 6 years
<mrj> When everything you could possibly need is at your fingertips already
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<ddd> that and the willingness to 'look' stupid to others. There's tons of stuff I refused to ask because I didn't want to look like an idiot to others. Now a days I couldn't care less. So long as I learn something and improve my education, I'll ask any and every question I feel I need to to learn.
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<mrj> Nobody knows everything!
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<blazes816> not only that, the sum of everything that everybody knows is such a minuscule amount of everything there is to know it's mind boggling
<ddd> lewis: as a result I can see my own questions hav changed from uhhh how you for 2 do that? To ones of nuances which is an amazing feeling. Take your victories where you can get them :)
<ddd> blazes816++ agreed
<blazes816> ddd: soon we're going to overflow each other!
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<Jdubs> ddd: i come in here every day looking stupid xD
<lewis> hmm
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<ddd> Jdubs: i ask some questions that later one *once i've figured something out or i get that AH HAH! moment* I can see are really dumb, but hey like blazes816 said, not everyone knows everything and its that process of learning that matters. I think that was one of the hardest things to get through my head that I've faced in quite some time. I see a lot of people that do the exact same thing I did. let the opinions (or possible opinions) of others stop or screw up th
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<blazes816> I actually remember my very first programming question
<Jdubs> ddd: I'm not afraid to look stupid xD, I come from a long line of dummies
<Jdubs> blazes: what was it
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<ddd> that being said, people 8do* have the right to expect you to make an effort to learn. To *actually* use that grey matter between your ears.
<blazes816> i was playing around with phpbb, and wanted to learn to hack on it. I figured out how to echo the id of a forum, but (having no idea how html worked, and the interplay between it and php) I had no idea how to build a clickable link
<ddd> whts it called? Critical Thinking! thats it. they have every right to expect you to do critical thinking and extrapolation
<blazes816> I bugged people on the phpbb support forums for ~1 week before somebody finally told me "just echo an html link"
<blazes816> I felt so dumb
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<ddd> hehe i feel dumb all the time. but that AH HAH! feeling.. trumps it every time :)
<blazes816> for sure
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<Jdubs> blazes816, that's pretty funny
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<Jdubs> i can't remember my first programming question...i started programming 15 years ago
<Jdubs> but then again, i probably didnt ask any questions
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<Jdubs> i just did stuff on my own for fun
<Jdubs> and figured it out
<Jdubs> by dissecting other peoples code
<Jdubs> but then i didnt code for years and years and years
<Jdubs> and now im getting back into it
<blazes816> yeah, that was the phase after 'wtf is this shit'
<blazes816> unfortunately it changes so fast it's easy to get behind
<ddd> working out the FuzzBuzz challenge on my own was pretty neat. being able to understand wtf people were actually *asking* nevermind being able to provide an answer! (Thats my favorite part! I can actually provide answers these days)
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<blazes816> the moment I was hooked on programming was when I finally got a phpbb mod written, and somebody downloaded and installed it. I don't think there's anything like the first time somebody uses something you wrote.
<dankest> +1
<Jdubs> blazes816, no one's used anything of mine :(
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<blazes816> Jdubs: not yet!
<Jdubs> blazes816: yeah lol
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<blazes816> Jdubs: fix a small bug in rails, sinatra, or something
<Jdubs> pretty sure that's way beyond me :P
<blazes816> automatically you go from 0 people, to 1000s /day
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<Jdubs> i'm pretty newb
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<blazes816> Jdubs: there're bound to be a few hundred typos in readmes around github ;)
<ddd> when I found a bug in a commonly used gem, and I understood that it *was* a bug and *why* it was.. I was totally hooked.
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<Jdubs> @blazes816 lol...I don't think fixing readme typos counts :P
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<blazes816> Jdubs: you'd be surprised. 1) it gets you used to working with an open source project's version control 2) gets you used to working with other people and 3) gets a foot in the door on the project for future changes
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<blazes816> if I send a big ass pull request to sinatra, they're probably not gonna be super stoked. but if I had built up a history of making legitimate fixes, even if small, it greatly drops that 'barrier of entry' from the devs
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<ner0x> Will system default ruby for ubuntu do? Or should you use rvm?
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<Jdubs> hmmm
<Jdubs> blazes816 you make great points
<blazes816> ner0x: use rvm
<ner0x> blazes816: I should point out I'm *very* new to ruby.
<Jdubs> blazes816: how does it get you working with other people though? by doing typo fixes i mean
<blazes816> thanks
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<ddd> default ruby works fine if you're OK with relying on the version of ruby the distribution decides for you is the one to use. I would say use RVM and don't dick around with the system ruby
<ddd> rvm, rbenv, rbfu, etc. one of em at least
<blazes816> ner0x: the debian packages for ruby tend to be problematic
<shevy> debian hates ruby
<ddd> especially since they call install into the user HOME by default, which means utter isolation of the system from you the user which means safety all around
<postmodern> ner0x, what OS are you on?
<blazes816> Jdubs: because even a typo change requires you talk with the project owner, even if just a bit
<blazes816> he said ubuntu
<postmodern> ah
<ner0x> Remove all system ruby, use rvm?
<postmodern> ner0x, ubuntu 12 offers ruby 1.9.2, just install ruby-1.9.1 package
<ddd> and please please please save yourself whatever little hair you may or may not have, and don't dev on windows (unless you *really* know wtf you're doing)
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<ner0x> Me?
<ddd> no, leave the system ruby. that can stay. once you set up rbenv, rvm, or rbfu whatever the system ruby is won't matter a single iota
<blazes816> windows + dreamweaver + ruby weaver extension <---- how I started ror dev
<postmodern> ddd, if you only need one ruby, rvm/rbenv/rbfu are overkill
<postmodern> ddd, don't cargo cult them
<ner0x> postmodern: I typically only need one ruby, but system *insert programming language* here are always dirty.
<ddd> don't tell me that i'm cargo culting because I advocate their use
<blazes816> if you only need one ruby environment
<postmodern> ner0x, try it out at first
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<postmodern> ddd, right tool for the right job
<ddd> and even with a single ruby installed, if you want the most current stable unless you'r going to run sid, you're not going to get it without eithe rbuilding your own package OR using one of the managers
<ner0x> blazes816: I like to use something like rvm or GEM_HOME because I enjoy nuking the entire libraries and seeing what deps I forgot. :)
<ddd> so go piss on someone else's rope and call them a cargo culter
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<postmodern> ner0x, rvm/rbenv/rbfu/chruby will all work
<postmodern> ner0x, ddd, also you can manually build/install rubies using ruby-build into /usr/local/
<ner0x> ruby -v says 1.8.7
<ner0x> After installing 1.9.3 through debian...
<blazes816> haha
<postmodern> ner0x, you need to switch to 1.9.1 mode
<davidcelis> ner0x: $PATH
<ddd> there are many GOOD reasons to use one of them above and beyond needing more than a single ruby. And FOR a single ruby its well worth deploying one of them as well, especially in order to keep out of distrib package hell, allowing easy upgrade of that existing single ruby, and thats also a standard usage pattern. So go cargo cult someone else.
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<ner0x> ddd: Cargo cult?
<davidcelis> postmodern: you're wrong, by the way
<ddd> ner0x: advocating the use of something without good reason just because others use it
<postmodern> davidboy, about what?
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<davidcelis> postmodern: about rbenv/rvm being overkill when you only use one ruby
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<ddd> davidcelis: you know this, I know this, leave it be. he's a ruby-build or distrib packages only boy. anything else is cargo culting.
<postmodern> davidcelis, checkout chruby, its vastly smaller
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<blazes816> oh, i see what game this is
<ddd> blazes816: yeah
<davidcelis> postmodern: that is a ruby management system, which you just suggested is overkill when you use only one ruby.
<postmodern> ner0x, did the update-alternatives command work?
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<postmodern> davidcelis, it's not a management system, it only switches rubies and sets GEM_HOME/GEM_PATH correctly
<postmodern> davidcelis, system ruby should "just work" in most cases
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<ddd> postmodern: uhh which is what any of the 'ruby managers' out there do
<davidcelis> system ruby is almost always 1.8 bro
<postmodern> davidcelis, if you need to install a specific version, you can do that with ruby-build and into /usr/local/
<blazes816> why would you want to switch rubes and gem homes for only 1 ruby?
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<postmodern> ddd, no, ruby managers install/uninstall/update rubies, as well as switch between them
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<postmodern> ddd, like a package manager, manages packages
<davidcelis> rbenv doesn't do that
<blazes816> you mean, full featured managers
<postmodern> davidcelis, rbenv uses ruby-build
<davidcelis> rbenv just switches between them
<Spaceghostc2c> What're we bitching about?
<ddd> blazes816: in place upgrade or install of a new ruby in order to ease the upgrade path
<davidcelis> ruby-build is not rbenv
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<ner0x> http://paste.scsys.co.uk/213849 < -- Mission success
<postmodern> davidcelis, rbenv also installs shims, auto-completion, a ton of things
<postmodern> davidcelis, i know ruby-build is not rbenv
<blazes816> ddd: of course, just being sarcastic
<Spaceghostc2c> For what it's worth, you're all wrong and a bunch of twits.
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<davidcelis> postmodern: coulda fooled me
<ddd> ah :)
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<ddd> Spaceghostc2c: bite me ya twit ;)
<ner0x> s/twit/twat/g
<Spaceghostc2c> ddd: Your lady might get jealous.
<ddd> lol
<ddd> true, she might
<Spaceghostc2c> Neither of us would want her to get upset.
<ner0x> Either way, I got it working.
<ddd> oh god no
<ner0x> ruby -v not tells me 1.9.3
<ner0x> now*
<ddd> ner0x: cool
<ner0x> Thank you for all your help.
<ner0x> I'm sure I'll be back 100 times. For now I'm going to do that KOAN stuff.
<Spaceghostc2c> Unless you're all writing your own rubies into STDIN, you ain't hot shit.
<ddd> love them koans
<Spaceghostc2c> ddd: I got a KOAN right here for you, pal! :p
<postmodern> ddd, also, on Fedora 17, system ruby installs into ~/.gem/ by default, so not all system rubies are "the devil"
<ddd> whose did you borrow?
<ner0x> By the way, what's the average age in here?
<Spaceghostc2c> ner0x: Drunk.
<ner0x> Spaceghostc2c: I'm starting to think you are correct sir.
<blazes816> 21 for me
<ddd> postmodern: in no way shape or form changes the fact you incorrectly claimed i was cargo culting, and that you were being an asshole. leave it be, and I will as well.
<ner0x> I'm probably going to idle in here a lot more often so I might as well get a feel for the community.
<liam> hi guys, I need a small help... I've a rails app and I'm trying to overload the request.remote_ip and request.ip in order to use the cloudflare header if it's present... I'm trying this (this is for the rack request.ip) http://pastebin.com/mYRkPdUh ... but none of them work :-/
<postmodern> ddd, well let's agree to disagree
<ner0x> Lots of banter from what I can see.
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<ddd> ner0x: average i don't know. 42 here
<Spaceghostc2c> postmodern: You're wrong.
<ddd> postmodern: works for me
<Spaceghostc2c> ddd: You're wrong.
<postmodern> Spaceghostc2c, well, like that's your opinion man :)
<ner0x> Well as long as you guys help me when I have questions I don't care what you say to each other. :)
<ner0x> Now, off to watch the walking dead.
<blazes816> ner0x: bugger off
<blazes816> (jk)
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<ner0x> Oh you're going to get a lot of me. I'm learning Rails + Ruby at the same time. lol
<ddd> ner0x: so long as you put in the effort to figure it out, and show what you're doing so we *can*, I doubt anyone will give you a ration of trouble. just do keep the rails stuff to #rubyonrails. the channel is a bit touchy about rails most of the time
<ner0x> ddd: I assume because everything thinks all ruby is, is rails?
<ddd> this one is basically about the base language itself, not the framework additions
<ddd> ner0x: unfortunately
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<ner0x> ddd: Yeah, people feel the same way about perl. Except that it's dead.
<ddd> hehe
<ner0x> Which is worse. lol
<Spaceghostc2c> Lisp! :D
<ddd> doh!
<blazes816> dat catalyst
<ddd> taking the dog out. bbl
<ner0x> blazes816: Catalyst is what I made a living off of.
<blazes816> ner0x: me too buddy
<blazes816> i hated my life so much
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<ner0x> blazes816: Then I realized, I'm tired of rolling my own validation layer and writing bindings to all my third party software.
<Spaceghostc2c> blazes816: I hate your life so much now. :D
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<blazes816> haha
<blazes816> it's cool, I left it behind for a sweet rails gig
<ner0x> I'm still trying to figure out the doc system of ruby but for the most part it's comparable to perlbrew/cpan/catalyst
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<ner0x> ActiveRecord seems like so much badass rolled into one.
<blazes816> ner0x: too much badass rolled into one
<blazes816> but better than dbi
<ner0x> blazes816: Too much automagic for your liking? lol
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<blazes816> ner0x: not even the magic per se, just the tight coupling to the db it creates
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<ner0x> Isn't that what it's supposed to do?
<blazes816> i don't like that a db change results in an application change
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<blazes816> depends. ActiveRecord the pattern IS supposed to do that. ORMs in general are not.
<liam> anyone? :-/
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<ner0x> blazes816: Validation is sweet through.
<blazes816> liam: try #rubyonrails
<ner0x> s/through/through
<ner0x> ...
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* ner0x is drunk.
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<ner0x> Alas, the average age.
<blazes816> ner0x: for sure, but that's the kind of stuff that should be separated into it's own pacage (which is what active_model is)
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<blazes816> it's getting better, but I still only use it if I really need to, or if I really don't need schema flexibility
<liam> blazes816: I think it's more a ruby problem than a rails one...as request.ip is from rack, and overloading a method is more a ruby stuff
<ner0x> blazes816: ActiveModel for non DB stuff, ActiveRecord for db stuff? As I take it.
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<blazes816> ner0x: yeah. I think the sep aration is still in progress but AM will handle all the model-related stuff, and AR would just do the DB stuff
<blazes816> AM does validations, callbacks, etc. AR just get's the data in and out
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<ddd> as an alternative to AR, check out Sequel
<ner0x> So realistically AR is just AM+DB
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<ddd> plus a crapload of convenience helpers
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<ner0x> Right.
<blazes816> ner0x: basically. but it happened in reverse. AM is being extracted out of AR. but yeah
<ner0x> blazes816: That's odd.
<blazes816> sequel and data mapper are both good
<blazes816> ner0x: you know how rails came into existence?
<ner0x> blazes816: ex-perl hating japanese man?
<blazes816> the same process
<blazes816> lol
<blazes816> a dane actually
<blazes816> DHH wrote basecamp for 37signals in ruby with no 'framework'. then later extracted rails out of it
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<Drewch> hey blazes816 , what was that .merge thing you were telling me about earlier
<Drewch> with the options hash
<Drewch> I'm looking around at APIs and i see it used a lot but not sure I really understand
<ddd> but rails has admitted since the beginning (or rather DHH has, probably because *he* is) that its rather opinionated.
<blazes816> Drewch: def initialize(args={}); options = args.merge(default_args); end
<blazes816> Drewch: check out Hash#merge
<ddd> there a lot of people that take exception to that opining, but hey good stuff has to start somewhere :)
<Drewch> thanks
<blazes816> np
<ddd> and there are multiple alternatives that are lighter weight as well, like ramaze, node.js, clojure, and others.
<Spaceghostc2c> blazes816: And #reverse_merge
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<ner0x> ddd: To Rails?
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<blazes816> reverse_merge is rails only correct?
<davidcelis> yes
<ddd> when i finally get a solid enough handle on rails itself, I'll probably start hammering on node.js
<blazes816> yeah
<nmabry> ddd: and sinatra! :)
<ddd> ner0x: yeah
<davidcelis> it's easy to write though
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<ddd> oh yeah sinatra and padrino i think its called
<ddd> nmabry: thanks for reminding me
<Drewch> blazes816 that seems to say that default_args will override args if the keys are the same
<Drewch> don't you mean default_args.merge(args);?
<blazes816> Drewch: yep
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<blazes816> good call
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<Drewch> hehe okay cool, makes perfect sense thank tyty
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<ddd> thats the one thing i really love about ruby-land. there is just *so* damned much out there!
<blazes816> I was thinking reverse_merge, but trying to stay away from rails-specific
<nmabry> ddd: i just love sinatra. padrino hasn't worked out-of-the-box the couple of times i've tried it, but i hear it's great, too.
<davidcelis> isn't it just `def reverse_merge(hash) hash.merge(self) end`
<Drewch> and what to do if they are missing an option
<blazes816> yeah, but you need to know Hash#merge first. after you understand that it's trivial
<Drewch> that is required
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<ddd> and with jruby in the mix, you can take any java lib out there and use it as well. so the extensibility is just wow!
<blazes816> Drewch: that you'll need to check for explicitly
<ddd> nmabry: yeah I've no real opinion on any of them, I was more trying to give a general list of others he can check out as well.
<blazes816> raise ArgumentError unless args.keys.include? :key
<blazes816> ish
<Drewch> yeah I will, just wondering what type of error to throw from an initializer
<Drewch> ok cool thanks
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<ddd> personally, I like ramaze. I know the guy who wrote it. Its pretty damned decent. But that being said, I do keep coming back to Rails for some reason I'm not entirely sure of :)
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<ddd> however, even with rails being out there, I spend probbly 99% of my coding time writing or working on non web frameworks. just straight up plain old ruby apps.
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<ddd> though i do make use of a great many of the Rails dependency gems like activerecord, activemodel, activesupport, etc.
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<ddd> wonder if that means i'm really writing rails apps without the rails ;)
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<ner0x> My company uses Catalyst but we're thinking of switching to Rails. Mainly for the validation and REST compliance.
<ner0x> In order to do that, I ought to know ruby, eh.
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<ddd> well as long as you write your own CRUD (create, read, update, delete/destroy) using the correct access (get, put, post, etc) calls, you can be rest compliant on your own
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<ddd> i mean don't use rails *just* for that. there's gotta be more reasons than that to use rails for it to be worth it
<ner0x> ddd: Of course. But most of what I'm doing is typical web framework stuff.
<ddd> i got ya. just makin sure you recognize that aspect
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<ner0x> ddd: Larger community, more docs, better guides, more programmers, bigger irc channel, more third party bindings ( Chargify, Amazon, etc)
<ner0x> ddd: Oh and better multi-server support I think.
<ddd> yeah now those i would accept as good base reasons. augmented by whatever specific capabilities rails additionally offers that you find actually useful
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<ddd> multi-server? as in OS support?
<ner0x> ddd: As in multiple servers in multiple locations. Racks on Rails or something like that?
<ddd> yeah everywhere that ruby is supported should have no issues with rails.
<ddd> oh you mean the middleware support
<ddd> you know you can have rack apps without touching a lick of rails right?
<ner0x> Yes. But native support is nice.
<ddd> ahh yeah i got you.
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<ner0x> To be honest, the validation is one of the main reasons, programming wise.
<ner0x> Plus, some of the base features are nice. hash2 - hash1 = difference.
<ddd> yeah I like the validations of AR and the helpers introduced with AM and AS
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<ner0x> I don't plan on programming this thing forever. I'm sure I'll be able to find a rails programmer. lol
<ddd> actually, (and this could be my knowledge betraying me) isn't that a ruby capability?
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<ner0x> ddd: Yes, that's what I meant by base features, of the language I mean.
<ddd> ohh, ok i got you
<ner0x> And I'm sure there are lots of goodies like that I don't even know about.
<ddd> oh no doubt. i learn something new i didn't know ruby could do almost every day
<ddd> love this language
<ner0x> So yeah, those are my main reasons.
<ner0x> I feel odd not using a ; at the end of the each line.
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<ddd> yeah coupling in what you mentioned, I'd agree they're good reasonings.
<ddd> haha you and me both.
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<ddd> one aspect of ruby that I really really like is the expressiveness. how close to human speech almost that you can make ruby 'talk'.
<shevy> ../tools/create-reference.rb:331:in `block (2 levels) in <main>': invalid byte sequence in US-ASCII (ArgumentError)
<shevy> whaaaaaat the fuck
<shevy> in the program gegl
<ddd> when i first got introduced to the language that literally blew my mind. yeah I mean using the terser syntax format may in some cases execute slightly faster, but the *language* is just so conducive to almost just *talking* out your program and it works
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<ddd> that just blows my mind
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<ddd> and then add in all the extender gems to give it even more expression, and the testing+helper gems for your tests so that they too read almost as natural language.. wow
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<ddd> and with such a low penalty execution wise.
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<shevy> good that this is ruby and I know how to fix it
<ddd> C isn't like that, C++, PHP, perl, bash.. none of em
<ner0x> And something about ruby rails console.
<shevy> Encoding.default_external = Encoding::ASCII_8BIT
<ddd> i mean you can *make* them that way. but ruby is that way naturally
<ner0x> ddd: I prefer a less English oriented appropach.
<shevy> but still... to have an official open source package such as gegl fail in such a way due to encoding stuff in a .rb file is just madness on all levels
<ddd> ner0x: well you're not a native speaker right?
<ner0x> ddd: English?
<ddd> right
<ner0x> I am.
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<ner0x> I was hoping my English was good enough for people to notice that. lol
<ddd> oh, and you don't like the english oriented approach? you're the first i've heard say that actually
<ddd> ner0x: oh it was just the occasional item in your text that made me think different
<ner0x> It's like programming a UI, do what people expect.
<ddd> i was actually thinking you were a non english speaker thats used english for a long time, but that the occasional nuance slipped by was all
<ner0x> Most language are not English oriented.
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<ner0x> ddd: That's the typing faster than I think thing.
<ddd> no, thats true. but when you have a language that can pretty much be expressed in natural english the barrier to entry is much lower, and the thought processes one has about what you're coding tend to show through more.
<ddd> there's less.. catching.. on syntax trip-ups and stuff
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<ddd> the ease of expressing an idea in the head as natural code is a big plus, at least to me
<ner0x> I would think the same if I had not been taught the opposite since day one. :)
<ddd> that and the fact that ruby-land *expressly* believes in longer names to actually express your variables rather than the customary a, b, c = d is a big plus too
<ner0x> Oh I always did that.
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<ner0x> This walking dead episode is crazy.
<ddd> yeah but try that in C land. Man, you'll be lucky if you hav a head left! or perl!
<ddd> hehe I got the kids out of my hair for awhile so i can chat. I put on The Last Air bender for them.
<ddd> But when they're done, Full Metal Alchemist comes on. Thats *my* show :)
<ner0x> I've come from a majority perl.
* ner0x <3ed perl.
<ner0x> ddd: And FMA is badass. But Brotherhood, not the first one.
<ddd> i tried my hand at perl. i didn't like the language.
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<swarley> Perl is nifty, but somewhat inconsistent in areas
<ner0x> I've enjoyed ruby so far.
<ddd> oh see I like both. Been trying to find Cowboy Bebop for the kids too. Think they'd like that, or Ishadoru (the half human, half demon). They like GIT/GIT2
<ddd> yeah me too. ruby by far has been the happiest I've been with a language
<ner0x> The whole :symbols idea is pretty neat.
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<ddd> yeah that concept did take me awhile to grasp correctly
<swarley> Same for me
<ddd> but once i did, i can see the immense value
<ddd> i think thats probably the single hardest part of ruby actually
<swarley> Ditto
<ddd> well for most to grasp
<swarley> Actually, blocks are pretty difficult if you want to understand everything about them
<ddd> yeah, i can agree with that
<ner0x> I don't understand why it's major important. But I see how it can save memory.
<ddd> but i found blocks a tiny bit difficult in the beginning, but had a harder time conceptually with symbols.
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<swarley> They're important because they're like atoms in erlang and such
<ddd> ner0x: well memory and the fact that symbol lookups are *far* faster than string lookups etc.. make the difference
<swarley> Easier to use than strings
<swarley> The only thing that has to be compared is the object Ida
<swarley> I'd
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<swarley> ... ID
<ddd> id?
<ddd> heh
<ner0x> ddd: Ah, well that makes sense then.
<ner0x> Blocks I get.
<swarley> Sorry, auto correct on the iPod
<swarley> Are you sure?
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<swarley> It's hard to know everything about blocks
<ddd> yeah i have had a few doosies of a sentence or two come out due to autocorrect
<swarley> They're rather complex to be honest
<ddd> no argument there
<ner0x> swarley: Oh not in ruby at all. But I get the concepts because of perl.
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<ddd> *I* have a really hard time with Procs and lambdas for some reason
<swarley> Anonymous subs are much easier to use than blocks really
<ddd> i consistently use them incorrectly. I just have such a hard time using them
<swarley> Since a sub is a sub no matter what
<ddd> and i believe its because of my conceptual model of them
<swarley> Blocks and procs have a weird congruency
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<ddd> very
<swarley> A block is a proc but a proc isn't a block
<ddd> but i believe that will straighten itself out for me the more i use them
<ddd> yeah heheh. imagine that
<swarley> Procs can become blocks though
<ddd> self gave me grief for awhile too, but thats finally 99% clear
<swarley> which makes it even worse to conceptualize
<ddd> there's the odd case where I get confused, however, generally i have the usage pattern down now
<swarley> Self is a little easier if you've used c++
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<swarley> That has the this keyword
<ddd> yeah Procs are my little hell
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<ddd> yeah i've coded in C++ for awhile, but its really easy to escape the use of this in C++
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<ddd> and C doesn't have a notion of that which is where I originally came from
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<ddd> none of which should be construed as me saying I was exceptional with either of them, however I could generally hold my own (except with freakin pointers)
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<ddd> which is really the true power of C i guess, but I always *had* to refer back to docs and tuts to properly use pointers
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<ddd> i mean *p vs &p isn't difficult, its the math with them! sheesh thats a nightmare
<swarley> Oh yeah haha
<ddd> swarley: ok, I can hear the snickers from here ;)
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<swarley> No I get it
<swarley> If only we had Unicode keyboards
<ddd> hehe
<ddd> hrmm, taing the tow guy a long time to get the other car here. hope everything's alright.
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<Beached> hello?
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<ddd> spent the day running around getting us a replacement car, and the wife's car broke down in Cincinnati (We live in Kentucky) Ohio.
<ddd> hello
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<Beached> I'm fairly new to ruby, so this may be a bad question. But how do you use the File library to create a file by file name?
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<Beached> I read the calss documentation and didnt see anything related to this
<Beached> http://pastebin.com/jxedV1ua < is my code that im using for testing
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<ddd> thats a bit more friendly than the class docs :)
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<Beached> I read that :) doesnt mention creating a file by a variable name though, it only appears to work if i declair the name beteween ""
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<ddd> oh. File.new("#{varname}", "w+")
<Beached> AHH forgot about that. one moment
<ddd> wrap the var name in #{} to get at the value
<Beached> i read that last week too, obviously didnt stick
<Beached> lol
<ddd> hehe it happens
<swarley> You can also use File.open as a synonym
<swarley> If I remember correctly
<Beached> that did id ddd
<ddd> cool
<Beached> thanks for refreshing my memory
<Beached> :D
<ddd> not a problem. people do it for me all the time :)
<Beached> obviously, still realatively new to ruby haha
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<ddd> gotta have a mind like a steel trap to never forget anything.
<ddd> *I* definitely don't have one :)
<Beached> :)
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<ddd> well, time to make some coffee, and then I've Practical object Oriented Design in Ruby to read. later all
<swarley> Don't worry the only way I learn anything with ruby is by repeated use generally
<ddd> swarley: same
<swarley> Well when I started at least
<ddd> couple more years and it will all probably be autonomic, but its not there yet, for me.
<ner0x> If you use rvm do you have to use GEM_ROOT as well, or can you install to the main ruby install?
<swarley> Now it's like reading a book in English for me
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<ddd> ner0x: the main ruby install is NOT supported by RVM. meaning that the system ruby in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM is under RVM control. We just let you switch to it
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<ddd> there should be zero reason for you to mess with the GEM_* vars with RVM, and RVM does NOT manage the system ruby. All RVM does is allow you to 'hide' RVM from the system ruby so you can switch back to it.
<ner0x> ddd: No, I mean my $HOME ruby, do you install directory to that?
<swarley> What
<ner0x> ... directly*
<ner0x> Do gems install to the rvm ruby, or do you have to maintain that yourself?
<swarley> It all handles itself
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<swarley> Or it should
<ddd> once you curl -L https://get.rvm.io | bash -s stable and let it install the rvm source line to your shell's profile and reload that profile, all you have to do is rvm —install —create use x.x.x and it will handle everything for you
<ddd> it installs to the rvm ruby. bear in mind you SHOULD be using rvm gemsets.
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<ddd> oh and do this before you install any gems. rvm gemset globalcache enable
<ner0x> No idea what that is.
<ddd> what that does is centralize the gem cache so that you don't have to keep re-downloading already-fetched gems.
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<ddd> (of course if you upgrade a gem to a version not already in the cache it will go and fetch it, but this lets you only download it once for installing to different gem sets)
<ner0x> I just want 1) install ruby 2) install rails 3 ) have it all be local.
<ddd> see the rvm.io home page and look at gem sets
<swarley> That sir is no easy feat using rvm lol
<ddd> swarley: yes it is.
<swarley> Really? I remember it being a pain for me
<ddd> hell mpapis and I pretty much debugged the shit out of the install and gemset usage patterns
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<swarley> I stopped with rvm though, I use stable dev branches now a days
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<ddd> ner0x: make sure you install whatever rvm requirements tells you to prior to installing any rubies or gems.
<swarley> Also I'm talking about local installs
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<ddd> there are certain libraries and headers that you need to have in place to build stuff
<ddd> thats just part and parcel of compiling anyways.
<ddd> swarley: local installs are the easiest
<ddd> its the multi-user installs that can be a pain if the rules aren't followed right
<ddd> but thats due to the nature of Unix ownerships and permissions
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<swarley> Hm I suppose I never honestly wanted to try
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<ddd> people still don't get the fact that installing AS root, is different than running sudo of the install process. (one completely loads root's environment which you do NOT want, the other just temp elevates privs so directories can be made and insalled to and the rvm group added)
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<ner0x> ddd: Not all the requirements are in ubuntu, at least not named that way.
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<ddd> and the user added to that group. all of which the installer handles FOR you, so you don;t even have to think about it. just prefix the normal install command with sudo and all of it is handled for you. all YOU have to do after its done is log out and then back in since group membership(s) are determined at login time (or launch a new bash process as a --login)
<ddd> ner0x: umm, pretty sure they are :)
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<ner0x> ddd: I just did an install and... they aren't. :)
<ddd> *I* ran the RVM testing cluster that helped set all the requirements and verify them
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<ddd> no, YOU have to install them. rvm requirements just tells you WHAT you need to install
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<ddd> it doens't actually install them for you. YOU have to do that. People would be utterly pissed off at us if we ran apt-get for them
<ner0x> I know that... lol
<ddd> never ever ever fuck with a man's box beyond installing just what you need for your program to install.
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<ner0x> What I meant was, the names are a bit off.
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<ddd> the LIST of packages should be absolutely spot on
<ner0x> Note, selecting 'libxslt1-dev' instead of 'libxslt-dev'
<ddd> what exact package or packages are NOT correct?
<ner0x> Note, selecting 'libncurses5-dev' instead of 'ncurses-dev'
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<ddd> because libxslt-dev is a META package
<ddd> yes that is absolutely correct
<ner0x> Okay then.
<ner0x> So it's spot on spotting the right package.
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<ddd> since the version can change and then meta-package will ALWAYS point at the right current version supported by the OS we use the meta pkg
<ner0x> Which I agree is the better way to do it.
<ddd> yep
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<ner0x> And my previous install was missing a lot of package so... my ruby was probably broken.
<ddd> most likely
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<ddd> thats why we detail what you should do and read on the install page. i know people hate reading docs, but if you want it right, read em ;)
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<ddd> brb, making that coffee
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<mrj> do any of you use ssd vps hosting?
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<ner0x> ddd: Run command as a login shell has terminated my ls colors. :(
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<mrj> diff bash.rc
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<ner0x> Why does rvm have to run as a login console?
<ner0x> :q
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<ner0x> ddd: Sourcing rvm makes loading a shell very slow. Ick.
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<ner0x> ddd: Sourcing rvm makes loading a shell very slow. Ick.
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<nmabry> ner0x: bummer. i haven't noticed myself, but i recently switched to rbenv to see how it feels. it's fast, but i'm still getting used to some changes.
<ddd> OH GEEZ, THEN YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG THERE.
<ddd> ITS ANYTHING BUT SLOW
<ddd> damn it. wife left the caps lock on
<ddd> sorry for yelling
<ner0x> Trolled.
<ddd> yeah she's good like that hehe
<ner0x> source $HOME/.rvm/scripts/rvm That's all I'm adding?
<postmodern> ner0x, if you want a minimal ruby switcher, look at rbenv or chruby
<postmodern> ner0x, chruby is only 80 lines
<ner0x> I read "chubby"...
<ddd> what exactly is slow? there is no significant delays here or that have been reported
<postmodern> ner0x, you should get your eyes checked :)
<ddd> and yes, I agree with postmodern. if RVM is too much, then definitely try rbfu or rbenv
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<ner0x> ddd: When I open a new console... it takes about 1.5 seconds for me to get #
<postmodern> ddd, or chruby, it has tests and works a little better than rbfu
<ddd> i'm against rbenv because of a personal differences with the author. (we have attitudes with each other for specific reasons) but the *app* itself is useful
<ddd> postmodern: i've never tried chruby. i might give it a try myself
<postmodern> ddd, i don't use it, since it's grown rather large and has no tests
<ddd> which? rbenv?
<postmodern> ddd, rbenv
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<ddd> got ya
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<postmodern> ddd, also, rbenv/rbfu wouldn't let me install rubies into /usr/local or /opt, but install gems into ~/.gem
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<ddd> postmodern: well if i remember correctly .gem is the right place for users
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<ddd> but to hard code such that you can't bypass.. not good
<ner0x> chruby... As in chdir, chmod etc.
<ner0x> I get it.
<postmodern> ner0x, chroot as well ;)
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<ddd> wonder if i can try the chruby on mac osx without having to trash my rvm like i would with rbenv
<ner0x> chruby looks like what I want.
<postmodern> ddd, it should work side by side, mpapis reviewed the code
<postmodern> ddd, also it has a homebrew config, so just install from github
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<ddd> hehe i also find it funny that RVm has gone out of its way to make it so that it respects rbenv settings etc etc, but rbenv is diametrically opposed to working with rvm installed
<ddd> niiice
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<ddd> so its in brew already?
<postmodern> ner0x, test it out, set RUBIES, see if it works, if not `make uninstall`
<ner0x> postmodern: That's the plan.
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<postmodern> ddd, not yet, i haven't asked, and they haven't accepted rbfu, so im guessing they wont accept chruby
<postmodern> ddd, not until i get tons of users
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<ddd> ah got ya
<ddd> oh you authored chruby? cool!
<postmodern> ddd, conflict of interest :P
<postmodern> shameless self promotion
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<ddd> how? I work on RVM, or did. I plug any reasonably working ruby manager, but make it known that i'm jaded towards RVm from having worked on the project.
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<ddd> i don't see any problem with plugging it :)
<ner0x> What installs brew?
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<postmodern> ner0x, homebrew is like gentoo's portage for OSX
<ner0x> postmodern: Ah. I had no idea.
<ddd> i mean we already agree with have differing opinions on when and where, but hey if it works, does the job right and allows for something similar to or exactly like gemsets, I'd gladly throw support via advocation
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<ddd> see, in my own personal evolution within ruby, i've come to the realization its more important to advocate a working solution than any specific manager. I usually try to inform of alternatives TO rvm, though I do push rvm since i worked on the project directly. I would expect no less from you as the author.
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<postmodern> ddd, having written a lot of competing software, it's always risky to promote your own software, some people assume your just pushing it because you wrote it
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<postmodern> ddd, so i try to pick my marketing opportunities wisely, instead of telling every single person "just use my alternative"
<ddd> yeah, I wrote the original rvm-test, which I've generalized into dtf-gems/dtf and I get that occasionally that I'm just self promoting, rather than people seeing it as an extension of the original concept
<ddd> yeah, i can see that point
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<ddd> can i make the suggestion though that rather than implicitly propogating the 'RVM hacks cd' with the Does not hook cd. comment, that you add something like (though with RVM this has always been an opt-in/opt-out option) or something. That fight was HUGE
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<ner0x> postmodern: make install complains about not being a git directory.
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<ddd> postmodern: i recognize if you didn't, just a.. sore point.. i guess
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<lukeholder> if anyone has jruby experience i have a quick questions. #jruby is asleep
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<ddd> also do you allow FOR the ability TO auto switch rubies on directory change (such as if say someone wanted to use a per-project ruby) or is that not in your viewpoint of acceptable usage? (which is fine just wonering)
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<postmodern> ner0x, ah ignore that, need to tweak the Makefile
<ddd> was just reading through the anti-features :)
<ner0x> postmodern: And after install, no chruby command.
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<postmodern> ner0x, check the README, it's a function
<ddd> did you add the config lines to your .bash_profile and resource the profile?
<ner0x> So I have to use that login shell then?
<postmodern> ner0x, so you have to add a /etc/profile.d/chruby.sh that loads it, and lists your RUBIES
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<postmodern> ner0x, add them to .bashrc
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<postmodern> ner0x, .bashrc is loaded before .bash_profile
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<ddd> ner0x: usually yes. the reason being is that bash only sources the .bash_profile for interactive shells when its executed as a login. otherwise it just loads itself and those files are ignored
<ddd> and when used as the executor of a script, from within the script, it ignores. .bash_profile and only loads .bashrc
<habitmelon> When I'm in IRB or PRY, I've noticed that the smallest file descriptor I get is 5, if stdin,out and err are 0,1,2, what are 3 and 4?
<ner0x> I don't think bashrc is sourced at all.
<ddd> habitmelon: usually tty and pty
<ddd> as in /dev/tty0 and /dev/pty0
<ner0x> No, .bashrc isn't sourced at all.
<habitmelon> ddd: ah, thank you
<ddd> np
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<ner0x> postmodern: This is a lot lol
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<postmodern> ner0x, it's the last step
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<postmodern> ner0x, you load the script in somewhere, list paths to your rubies, exec $SHELL
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<postmodern> ner0x, optionally set a default ruby by adding "chruby 1.9" to ~/.bashrc
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<ddd> ner0x: also, be aware that some distributions, when you just launch bash like say launching bash within your shell (eg at your command prompt which is already bash, and you run 'bash') then —noprofile and —norc is sometimes passed. I don't know if your distrib is doing that, but that would explain the lack of .bash* being processed. Just an aside to what you're doing with postmodern
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<postmodern> ddd, wow thanks for the heads up
<ddd> and some of the terminal apps which launch your shell are configured that way as well, could be another explanation too.
<postmodern> ddd, yeah pow definitely does that
<ddd> postmodern: yeah that bit me more than a few times
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<ddd> ner0x: and be extreemely careful with what you put in your .bashrc. If you have anything that is interactive at all, you can hang your shell process (waiting for input but there's no way To give it input so it 'hangs' the shell)
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<ddd> tahts why with rvm we ensure we do everything in .bash_profile and just add RVM to the PATH var in .bashrc for scripting
<ddd> err thats
<ddd> that bit us a couple times too
<Sou|cutter> the rules are a bit crazy
<ddd> yeah its .profile unless .bash_profile exists, then .login or .bash_login if it exists, then .bashrc
<ddd> if one of the .bash* exists then bash will auto-change its lookup to prefer the .bash prefix to the files for the remainder of the lookups
<ner0x> Blah.
* ner0x tries something out.
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<ddd> now, .profile existing but NOT .bash_profile can also cause .bash 9depending on the version) to operate in sh-compatible (POSIX) mode.
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<ddd> aka act like you called it as sh rather than as bash with its extensions enabled
<ddd> all of that impacts the behaviour of the various managers. so its good information to know
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<ddd> oh and on logout it looks for .logout unless .bash_logout exists. nice little soup there, no? ;)
<postmodern> and people say shell scripting is easy :)
<ddd> hehehe
<ddd> yeah its anything but.
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<ddd> and we haven't even discussed zsh or csh or korn yet :)
<postmodern> ugh shudder
<postmodern> arrays in zsh are indexed at 1
<Sou|cutter> zsh is simpler IMO
<postmodern> wtf
<ddd> nor how bash, in sh-compatable mode, handles things when it runs across 'set' options that aren't POSIX defined
<postmodern> simpler to use, not to script
<Sou|cutter> well that is wtf, sure
* Sou|cutter nods
<ddd> i like zsh a bit. but I am whole heartedly a bash man
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<ddd> i've tried to switch, even chsh'd to zsh for awhile to force myself to try to like it
<ddd> i always went back to bash
<ddd> my biggest issue isn't so much with zsh itself, as it is with that damned oh-my-zsh
<ddd> goddamn if that wasn't a freakin nightmare for us with RVM due to its git, rvm, and bundler plugins
<postmodern> bash has caught up to zsh in some ways
<ddd> caused no end of issues. sure we got to debug them and submit to make them work right, but wow getting there was *anything* but easy. poor mpapis tore what little hair he had out a few times.
<postmodern> definitely not as bad as it was in 2006
<ddd> very true
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<postmodern> oh also, if you write shell scripts
<postmodern> PLEASE WRITE UNIT TESTS FOR THEM
<postmodern> that way you can test them against bash, zsh, fish, whatever
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<ddd> hahaha. yep. rvm incorporated my rvm-test into itself at the core, and everything gets tests for it. we even ask for tests for submittals if at all possible
<ddd> postmodern: dtf-session is going to be my incarnation to do that. testing with various shells.
<postmodern> ddd, i believe RVM uses mpapis's comment assertion gem
<postmodern> ddd, tf
<postmodern> or rvm2 will?
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<postmodern> anyways, there are many options out there, no excuse not to Test All The Fscking Time
<ddd> dtf is the master gem (contains the AR dbs and stuff for recording env, pass/fail, and various run commands for future replay), dtf-session is my refactor of my original rvm-test that used Session gem, and will incorporate much of what mpapis added, and dtf-rvm will be for using rvm itself directly within the testing framework harness. each building on the other or being used as a standalone with dtf gem being the master
<ddd> yeah tf is the evolution of my original rvm-test
<ddd> dtf is *my* evolution of my original idea for rvm-test
<ddd> i'm aiming at a broader spectrum is why we split. i'm aiming for more than just rvm directly. so we renamed it to tf, and mine to dtf
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<ddd> just so we didn't cause a ruckus with the re-aiming
<ddd> tf is rvm specific
<ddd> mine isn't (just to make it clear why there are two of these freaking things hehe)
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<ner0x> Well.. I got rbfu working properly.
<ner0x> Which is probably the hardest to get up and running? lol
<ddd> ner0x: bear in mind some of this suspected ease could be just the way it presents making it easier for you to grok and get it working.
<ddd> and no, rbfu is actuall supposed to be the easiest in the bunch.
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<ner0x> ddd: Installation wise?
<ner0x> ddd: It was the most forward of the group anyway.
<ddd> we all target the same group, we just implement differently and target a specific section of that group
<ddd> yeah, rbfu is more.. idk.. generic.. and tends to be easier to set up than the rest of us
<ner0x> I'd like the rbfu -v @VERSION to not have the -v in it.
<ddd> it also provides less features than say RVM
<ner0x> ddd: You just called me generic. lol
<ddd> which isn't an issue, its just a targetting thing
<Beached> Ok, how would I write " myfile.puts("#{array1}") " so that aray1 is array* (all 5 of my arrays)
<ddd> no no, generic as in less features, so less to set up and or have go wrong etc.
<ddd> not generic as in your skillsets or something like that
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<ddd> RVM packs a LOT of stuff compared to the capabilities of say rbfu. thats what i'm referencing. and as a result there's less mucking around inthe environment, and thus usually makes for easier installation,
<ddd> it all comes down to what you want out of it
<ner0x> ddd: Yes, it just seems like more than I need.
<ner0x> ddd: This version number everytime I cd is annoying as all hell though.
<ddd> some people don't give a shit about per-project configurations, multi-versions of the same series of Ruby installs, etc.
<ddd> which is fine. not everyone needs that.
<ddd> for what, rbfu?
<ner0x> Yeah.
<ddd> check their docs. there's probably a param to turn that off
<ddd> might go in $HOME/.rbfurc or something idk
<ddd> i'm not up on all the managers. like i didn't even know about chruby until postmodern said something
<ddd> ok, gotta split. wife is calling. enjoy folks
<ner0x> Thanks for the help.
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<ddd> no problem at all
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<strangeworks> guys i'm searching some opensource realworld ruby project to study ruby better
<Drewch> should I be able to load a class into rib with >> load 'file_name.rb'
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<strangeworks> was searching over github
<strangeworks> and found nothing
<strangeworks> suitable
<strangeworks> maybe i lurking badly
<postmodern> Drewch, maybe try load './file.rb' ?
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<postmodern> strangeworks, depends on what you mean by realworld
<joofsh> Drewch: you can in pry at least, i haven't used irb itself in a while
<postmodern> Drewch, just tested it in irb, should work
<Drewch> hm thanks guys, I just realized it was not loading because my first line was require 'foldername/filename'
<Drewch> when I commented that out
<Drewch> it worked
<strangeworks> some project where I can get practice with OOP, patterns and testing
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<strangeworks> but have no ideas
<postmodern> Drewch, try irb -I.
<Drewch> is that an I or L
<postmodern> Drewch, I as in eye
<Drewch> same thing
<Drewch> LoadError: cannot load such file -- maluuba_napi/version
<Drewch> from /Users/Drewch/.rvm/rubies/ruby-1.9.3-p125/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/custom_require.rb:36:in `require'
<Beached> Will anyone be able to assist with my syntax here? http://pastebin.com/t0qgctxg
<Drewch> where the top line is: require maluuba_napi/version
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<Drewch> if I comment out that line, it loads perfectly fine
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<postmodern> Beached, you can't add a String to an Array
<postmodern> Beached, perhaps you meant ["C:/"] + Dir.entries("C:/") ?
<Beached> will that list all of the elements as C:/*element* ?
<postmodern> Beached, ah I see
<Beached> currently its pulling them all up and just listing their name, and I want the array to store the absolute file path
<postmodern> Beached, Dir.entries("C:/").map { |path| File.join("C:",path) }
<postmodern> Beached, or better yet, Dir.glob("C:/*")
<Beached> haha .glob returns [C:/]
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<postmodern> foiled again by Windows :)
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<Beached> ooo the Dir.foreach looks interesting
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<jekotia> I'm hoping someone can give me a hand. I'm trying, and utterly failing, to locate the 'gem' file mentioned http://www.redmine.org/boards/2/topics/32021 , the one that looks to essentially be a packages list. I have no need for PG, it's preventing bundle from finishing because postgresql isn't even installed and it demands the pg_config location, and no arguments for bundle for it to ignore...
<jekotia> ...pg have worked :/
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<jekotia> I have no prior experience with any of this, I'm just trying to get d damn redmine installation up >.<
<jekotia> *get a
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<jekotia> havenn: Where would I find the local copy, so that I can comment out pg?
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<Beached> who was helping me out with my array question
<havenn> jekotia: The Gemfile should be in the rood directory.
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<jekotia> havenn: What root? ~/.gems/ ?
<havenn> jekotia: root* directory of the project
<jekotia> ah
<Beached> postmodern i believe right?
<postmodern> Beached, you got it figured out?
<Beached> i did
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<postmodern> Beached, excellent
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<jekotia> havenn: Thank's. I didn't think it would be in there as the Redmine install never specified to change directory to where redmine was extracted prior to running bundle :/
<jekotia> *thanks
<jekotia> Er, redmine install guide
<Beached> Thanks, go class documentation lol
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<Beached> how do you tag username in irc again?
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<big_poppa> do we have any codeSTARs in the room?
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<havenn> big_poppa: What's a codeSTAR?
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<postmodern> Beached, just type part of the username and hit tab
<postmodern> Beached, also have you seen http://rubydoc.info/stdlib/ ?
<Beached> postmodern, haha thank you!
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<Beached> bookmarked
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<Drewch> Is there a way I can define a bunch of global symbols, that exactly match strings, in other words some type of Enum, that is :category1 => category1'
<Drewch> :category2 => 'category2'
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<Drewch> etc
<Drewch> so that in another file I can just say something like if( my_category == : category2 )
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<Drewch> hey postmodern you still around?
<bpfh> Drewch, I didn't understand very well what you're trying to do
<bpfh> if you want a string that exactly matches a symbol why don't you use to_s?
<Drewch> Yeah I'm not sure how to explain
<Drewch> I'm creating an API for a natural language processor that my company makes, in ruby, and I'm not really a ruby programmer
<Drewch> I've already done the python and Java one
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<Drewch> but I think Ruby people really like symbols
<Drewch> so I feel like stuff that would normally I could put in an enum in java, could be symbols in Ruby
<Drewch> for example if you ask "What is the weather tomorrow", the API might return {"category": "WEATHER", "action": "WEATHER_SEARCH" } or something
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<Drewch> and I feel like since categories and actions are predefined constants, that I should be doing something with symbols
<Drewch> but I am not sure what
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<Drewch> would I make a categories.rb file with one list in it, and have the list be like CATEGORIES = [ :WEATHER, :KNOWLEDGE, …, :RESTAURANTS]
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<bpfh> hmmm yes, symbols are like static strings that don't change during the whole runtime
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<Drewch> so is that the proper way to make it like an enum?
<Drewch> then can I use :WEATHER from another file?
<Drewch> hm I guess that doesn't really make sense
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<bpfh> Drewch, I don't know if I'll be clear here but I normally use symbols when I want to represent logical elements of my program
<bpfh> for example
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<Drewch> yeah it does
<Drewch> Basically I want to use it mainly for documentation
<Drewch> so people can see what categories are available, without having to look up documentation
<bpfh> you use symbols to refer to method names and not a string because it makes clear you're talking about an element of your own program
<Drewch> maybe just via autocomplete or something
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<Drewch> that's an interesting one
<Drewch> so I can't really use symbols in place of an Enum?
<bpfh> yeah it depends on the case, having programmed a year in ruby symbols are so intuitive for me that it's hard for me to explain exactly what it is about lol
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<Drewch> okay so if your programming on something new, and you know there's a whole bunch of categories that you can use
<Drewch> How would you want to see what they are
<Drewch> in java you might do
<Drewch> Categories.
<Drewch> and let it autocomplete
<bpfh> what exactly do you mean by autocomplete?
<Drewch> like if someones programming in Eclipse for java
<Drewch> if you type Categories.
<Drewch> it will pop up with the possibly values for that enum
<Drewch> therefore I don't need to look up the documentation to see the categories
<Drewch> they're in an enum
<bpfh> hmmm ok I got it
<Drewch> or maybe I just make a hash
<Drewch> categories[:WEATHER] = "WEATHER"
<bpfh> Drewch, ruby unlike java is a highly dynamic language so most of the capabilities that rich IDE's like eclipse provide don't have an analagous in the ruby world
<Sou|cutter> there's not really a correlary to enum types in ruby
<Drewch> I think a categories hash feels the most rubbish to me
<Drewch> ruby-ish
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<Drewch> I just don't want some ruby person to look at my ruby client and say "This isn't the ruby way" or something like that
<Sou|cutter> Drewch: don't agonize too much. Somebody is always going to find fault with your code
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<Sou|cutter> for the love of god just don't write camel case methods like def getCategories
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* Sou|cutter is having to deal with some horrid code like that right now
<bpfh> lol at getCategories
<Drewch> I primarily use C
<Drewch> so I hate camel case
<RubyPanther> You could always just use the C api and write all your Ruby in C
<Drewch> java developers get mad at me when I write Java but I don't care about java
<Drewch> lol RubyPanther
<Drewch> ;0
<Drewch> :)&&
<Drewch> :)**
<Drewch> I genuinely like programming in Ruby though
<Drewch> I want to do it in a way that makes people happy
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<Drewch> so If I have a category hash, like categories[:WEATHER] = "WEATHER"
<RubyPanther> rb_funcall( rb_cObject, rb_intern("puts"), 1, rb_str_new2("<3 CRuby"));
<Drewch> then I do comparisons like if result.category == categories[:WEATHER]
<Drewch> basically I'd like a way to make that: if result.category == :WEATHER
<Drewch> Does that make any sense, or no
<Drewch> and lol RubyPanther
<Sou|cutter> what's the point of a hash? why not just an array?
<Mon_Ouie> It does, it makes more than having a categories hash which maps each symbol to its name
<Drewch> ok , that's actually where I started, and I think I like it
<Drewch> but Mon_Ouie, I want to define the list of symbols they can use somewhere
<Drewch> I don't want them to do stuff like
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<Drewch> if result.category == :THISISDUMB
<RubyPanther> Arrays are for lists, and usually you shouldn't be accessing them by index... if you're accessing by index you should have a hash most of the time
<Drewch> so Sou|cutter, I think an array might be perfect?
<Sou|cutter> RubyPanther: it could be a set :P
<Mon_Ouie> They will always be able to compare the category to whatever they want.
<RubyPanther> in practice you "can" almost always use a list or a set for the same data, but there is not much overlap in which one is best for a particular data set
<Sou|cutter> yeah, you aren't going to lock them down to not comparing them to something stupid. Such is dynamic typing
<Drewch> but result.category == :WEATHER
<Drewch> doesn't even equal
<Drewch> unless they do result.category == :WEATHER.to_s
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<Drewch> which defeats the purpose doesn't it?
<Mon_Ouie> You should probably set the category to a symbol rather than a string
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<Drewch> It comes from a REST API
<Drewch> that returns json
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<Sou|cutter> RubyPanther: I don't agree that you should use a hash unless you're accessing by index.
<RubyPanther> or write a #== method that accepts does the .to_s
<Drewch> if there's a reasonable way to do that then I'd be down for that for sure
<RubyPanther> not every time, but usually
<Sou|cutter> RubyPanther: you should use a hash for key/value
<RubyPanther> if you have a list you are doing #each or #collect over it, and if you have a set you're usually doing foo[key]
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<Sou|cutter> an array is fine for a collection of things
<Drewch> basically category[:WEATHER] = "WEATHER" seems like the best to me right now, but is there a way to define all these without having to be so repetitive
<Sou|cutter> you can use a set if you really want to enforce no index
<RubyPanther> Drewch: It is either data, or a code identifier. It shouldn't be both.
<Sou|cutter> but not needing an index doesn't mean you have a key/value concept
<RubyPanther> If the user enters the category, then it is data, it should be a string. If it is something you use in your code, and it has some string attached to it that is what the user is shown, then it would be a symbol.
<Mon_Ouie> Are you talking about sets or hashes?
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<Drewch> I basically just want the developer consuming this gem, to be able to see the categories without looking up the documentation
<bpfh> Sou|cutter, what kind of application are you programming to have to deal with nice things like a method named getCategories? legacy ruby code?
<Sou|cutter> bpfh: yeah. Crap written by ex-java peoples
<bpfh> how old is the code?
<Sou|cutter> very
<bpfh> hahaha
<Sou|cutter> it's written for 1.8.6
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<davidcelis> lolol
<Sou|cutter> I don't even have the full history for it because it was converted from svn to git at some point
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<Sou|cutter> I see at least 4 years of history though
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<Sou|cutter> holy crap, 7 years
<Sou|cutter> maybe the full history is here
<davidcelis> lololololololol
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<bpfh> have you found an abstract factory or a java bean in the code yet? lol
<Sou|cutter> davidcelis: it's a lot funnier to you than to me, I assure you!
<davidcelis> Sou|cutter: yes
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<Drewch> hey Sou|cutter, hpfg, Mon_Ouie, RubyPanther : I did this, does this make any sense to do? https://gist.github.com/4070589
<Drewch> bpfh i mean
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<n_blownapart> sorry I don't see what happens with the keyword return in lambdas and procs. I vaguely understand how it works but why would you ever use return in cases like this? thanks : http://pastie.org/5375575
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<Mon_Ouie> def each; { |o| if yield o then return o end }; return nil; end
<Mon_Ouie> def find; each { |o| … }; return nil; end I mean
<Mon_Ouie> The point there is to short-circuit the method once you find what you were looking for
<Sou|cutter> Drewch: I think you're too focused on a small piece, and not on what you're trying to accomplish
<bpfh> Drewch, sincerely I can't understand why you're creating that hash @categories
<Sou|cutter> Drewch: I don't particularly think that code makes sense
<n_blownapart> Mon_Ouie: thanks would you elaborate on short-circuit?
<Mon_Ouie> It stops iterating at that point
<Drewch> hmm
<Drewch> your probably right
<Drewch> I just want a list of valid categories lol
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<Drewch> but I'd like them to be able to compare to it
<Mon_Ouie> (1..Float::INFINITY).find(&:even?) #=> 2
<Drewch> so i figured categories[:WEATHER]
<Mon_Ouie> It doesn't need to iterate over the whole colletion (luckily, because it's infinite)
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<Sou|cutter> Drewch: what if you have a module Categories; ALL = []; end and then you could to Categories::ALL.include?(arg.to_sym) ? or you could define a valid? module method that did that
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<n_blownapart> Mon_Ouie: thanks a lot I'll play with the code you sent. That second bit is intended for me? (11..Float::INFINITY).find ....
<n_blownapart> 1* ^^
<Drewch> yeah I could do that, but maybe even simpler, if I Just use a Categories Module
<Drewch> and do
<Mon_Ouie> Yes, it's an example where, without short-circuiting, the loop would go on forever
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<Drewch> Module Categories; WEATHER = "WEATHER" … etc… end;
<Drewch> then they just do
<Drewch> Categories::WEATHER
<Drewch> ?
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<Drewch> or maybe i'll just have my categories class just be a list of VALID_CATEGORIES
<Drewch> and leave it at that
<Sou|cutter> Drewch: https://gist.github.com/4070615
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<Drewch> yeah I guess that makes sense, I might have over emphasized the fact to that I want to make sure they choose a valid Category
<Sou|cutter> Drewch: then you have Categories::ALL or you can do Categories.valid?(user_input.to_sym)
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<Drewch> i guess I mainly want it for them to do comparisons
<n_blownapart> Mon_Ouie: thanks I'll study that.
<Drewch> or a switch statement on the result of a category
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<Sou|cutter> Drewch: it really sounds like you should start with the bigger picture and work your way down instead of the other way around
<Sou|cutter> my two cents...
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<Drewch> yeah I do agree
<Drewch> i mean it seems so simple
<Drewch> I'm just not sure which way to do it
<Drewch> basically I don't want them using a bunch of string literals in a switch statement right
<Drewch> switch result.category
<Drewch> case "WEATHER":
<Drewch> case "KNOWLEDGE"
<Drewch> I'd rather it look like
<Drewch> case :WEATHER
<Drewch> case :KNOWLEDGE
<Drewch> without them having to do .to_s, or .intern
<Drewch> does that make sense?
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<Drewch> I think this is the best I've explained it so far, lol
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<RubyPanther> Drewch: it is really simple. if the user types it in, or edits what it says, then it is data and should be a string. If the programmer types it in then it should be a symbol.
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<Drewch> result.category is a result that they'll get back, they have no say in it, result will be in json, and result.category will be a string like "WEATHER"
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<Drewch> the switch statement the programmer will type, so by your logic it should be a symbol
<Drewch> which I completely agree with
<Drewch> but I don't think the switch should look like: result.category.intern
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<Drewch> and I don't think the case should look like :WEATHER.to_s
<RubyPanther> it is common to convert symbols to strings and back when going through json or some other external format
<Drewch> oh really
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<Drewch> I feel like I should do it for the person using my gem though
<Drewch> not them
<RubyPanther> It is a completely different question of what is the appropriate internal storage, and what representation of the data do you provide when you import/export
<Mon_Ouie> I wouldn't convert the string from json to a symbol. It's still data from an external input, the service could answer anything, possibly fill up memory with new symbols (not that it's very likely to happen).
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<Sou|cutter> Mon_Ouie: true
<RubyPanther> You're thinking in static data types, instead of in interfaces
* Sou|cutter agrees with RubyPanther
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<Drewch> Can you give me an example of how I can shift my thinking to interfaces?
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<Sou|cutter> Drewch: you need to tease out the different ways people are interacting with categories, and to do that I think you need to start with the bigger picture as I mentioned before
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<Drewch> okay
<Drewch> thanks
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<n_blownapart> Mon_Ouie: hi I'm still confused. I put up your example here : pastie.org/5375632 Also ran it. but on line 20 why is the implicit proc constructor there with even?
<Mon_Ouie> It's just the block passed to find, the one you use return in is the one you pass to each (line 15)
<Mon_Ouie> Also, you're not calling that #find method, you're calling Enumerable#find from core (you could override to really try that method)
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<n_blownapart> Mon_Ouie: thanks grepping that...
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<bloopletech> How do I read a line longer than 4096 bytes from stdin in 1.9.3?
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<bloopletech> Using both gets and read, when I try to paste into the terminal, only the first 4096 characters paste. I can paste the whole string at the bash prompt in the same terminal, so it seems to be a ruby restriction
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<heftig> bloopletech: works fine here ruby 1.9.3p327 (2012-11-10 revision 37606) [x86_64-linux]
<bloopletech> hmm
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<heftig> tested using ruby -e 'puts("a" * 5000)' | ruby -e 'puts gets.size'
<bloopletech> trying
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<bloopletech> you're right... maybe this *is* a terminal thing after all. I will investigate further, thanks
<heftig> should output 5001 (5000 letters + the linebreak)
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<bloopletech> you're entirely right, I get the same problem with cat - . Bloody gnome-terminal! Thanks anyway
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<Drewch> Hey Sou|cutter RubyPanther you guys still here? I think I figured out what I want to do after just going further
<Drewch> wanted to know what you guys thought
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<Drewch> Is there a way to overwrite hash equality such that if I have hash = { category: "WEATHER" }, I can do hash[:category] == :WEATHER be true
<Drewch> as well as
<Drewch> hash[:category] == "WEATHER"
<Drewch> basically allow it to be true regardless if it's a symbol or a hash
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<heftig> Drewch: you would have to overwrite String's equality
<heftig> so "WEATHER" == :WEATHER is true
<Drewch> hm that's a bit gross
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<Drewch> ok I just won't let people use symbols for the values of the hash
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<Drewch> even though they are constants
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<heftig> you could to .to_s before you compare
<heftig> hash[:category].to_s == "WEATHER"
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<Drewch> yeah but I don't want the consumer of my api to do any weird stuff like that
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<Drewch> I just want them to be able to do hash[:category] == :WEATHER or hash[:category] == "WEATHER"
<Drewch> they are the one's that would be adding the .to_s
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<heftig> symbol comparison would be much quicker
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<Drewch> yeah that's why i prefer it
<Drewch> it's a wrapper to a REST API though
<heftig> so why don't you use hash = { category: :WEATHER } then?
<Drewch> so if they were to curl the response
<Drewch> it would look like
<Drewch> { "category": "WEATHER" }
<Drewch> I already change it to { category: "WEATHER" } in my ruby client
<Drewch> I'd like it to be { category: :WEATHER }
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<Drewch> but I'm worried that people might look at the raw json dump through curl or something, and see { "category": "weather" }, and use string equality instead
<Drewch> I'm not sure if I should be worried or not, it's my first ruby api
<Drewch> I just know rubyists really like symbols that's why I changed the "category" to :category
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<JoeHazzers> if you tell them not to use string equality, and they use it anyway, that's their own fault really.
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<Drewch> so the fact that the raw http response is { "category": "WEATHER" }
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<Drewch> and within the wrapper I'm using it as { category: :WEATHER }
<Drewch> is normal? and if they try to use them as strings then it's their own fault?
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<heftig> well, pick something
<heftig> neither is wrong
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<heftig> however, you shouldn't convert the values to symbols if their amount is unbound
<Drewch> the amount of categories is definitely a finite set
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<_br_> Does anyone have an opinion about Chef, Puppet, Capistrano and what ever else is out there in this category? Particularly interested in your production experience running something like that.
<neurotech> I have a really basic Rails question - nobody seems to be around in #rails. How would I go about writing a route for routes.rb for this pseudocode: "When a user goes to 'http://<domain>/' go to a 'homepage' controller"?
<neurotech> Also, I don't want the user to see "/home" in the URL, e.g. User goes to test.com and rails shows them /home but keeps the URL as test.com
<havenn> neurotech: Rails channel is #RubyOnRails
<neurotech> AH
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<neurotech> hahah thanks
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<BlankVerse> open-uri
<BlankVerse> does it take a payload
<BlankVerse> s/payload/params
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<_br_> BlankVerse: Not sure what is the right answer. (e.g. http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/68662) Its a very simple problem, and can be solved easily by a quick function.
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<youconsulting> What round is needed for this : "No route matches [POST] "/product/1""
<youconsulting> What route * is needed for this : "No route matches [POST] "/product/1""
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<apeiros_> YOUConsulting: #rubyonrails
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<jsaak> it is so sad that ruby became ror (not just the channel)
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<apeiros_> jsaak: it hasn't
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<apeiros_> ror makes up a large part of the ruby univers, but it's still only a part.
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<apeiros_> +e
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<jsaak> well in the mind of everyone except you and me, it did
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<apeiros_> facts matter. and facts say otherwise.
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<jsaak> it is good that you see it otherwise
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<BlankVerse> how to require a file in irb?
<BlankVerse> require './file' gives error
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* apeiros_ activates his mental superpowers to read BlankVerse's mind to get the error he got
<apeiros_> wait, I don't have such superpowers
<apeiros_> BlankVerse: provide meaningful information if you want help.
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<apeiros_> "an error" is not meaningful.
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<Jdubs> hi guys o/
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<BlankVerse> how to get a list of files in a directory?
<BlankVerse> apeiros_: that was my mistake , thanks for the reply
<BlankVerse> apeiros_: I fixed it
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<jsaak> in 1.9 path does not include current dir: quickfix: $LOAD_PATH << '.'
<rasmusth> In a controller I attempt to assign the contents of a posted file to a string, but for some reason it is just outputted to the browser directly. Check my code here: http://pastie.org/5376131
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<BoomCow> hi
<BlankVerse> how do i do array.map in parallel?
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<apeiros_> BlankVerse: you use the peach gem.
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<drcode> hi all
<drcode> I have some code with "module io" any idea what gem install for this module?
<pikitgb> hi drcode
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<drcode> I did gem install io or io-like but still missing
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<BlankVerse> nokogiri with jruby , error:
<BlankVerse> LoadError: no such file to load -- isorelax require at org/jruby/RubyKernel.java:1019
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<BlankVerse> jruby -e "require 'nokogiri'"
<BlankVerse> gem list noko
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<BlankVerse> nokogiri (1.5.5 ruby java)
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<apeiros_> BlankVerse: if your jruby executable is named jruby, then your jruby gem command is most likely jgem
<apeiros_> i.e., you probably installed the nokogiri gem for the wrong ruby executable
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<Xeago> what is the difference between instance_eval and instance_exec
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<Jdubs> Xeago: about 3 letters
<Jdubs> xD
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<Drewch> do people use rdoc or yard
<Drewch> what's more popular
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<Jdubs> rdoc i think, but i'm new to ruby
<Xeago> I use tomdoc, a flavor of rdoc
<Xeago> there's other stuff that just uses markdown after #'s
<Xeago> it generates something like this: http://karmi.github.com/tire/
<Xeago> http://rtomayko.github.com/rocco/ which is a port of docco
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<Retistic> Retistic: can anyone tell me whats going on here, i think its a simple scope issue: http://pastie.org/5376489
<Retistic> oops didn't meant to type my name
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<Retistic> anyone here?
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<Xeago> Retistic: what issue are you facing
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<Xeago> the scope in which it_should_behave_like works does not know of the definition of valid+parameters
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<Retistic> Xeago: why is that? it works in all my example block later
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<Xeago> Retistic: I have no idea, I am no rspec expert and that is the only conclusion I can do from seeing your code
<Xeago> if you post more and explain more what you are doing help might be possible
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<Xeago> also, try to provide as much information here, and not direct to someplace else to find information
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<Retistic> Xeago: ok sorry, i don't believe it should have anything to do with rspec. its just a method followed by a loop
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<Xeago> it_should_behave_like
<Xeago> or whatever that method is called
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<Retistic> Xeago: let me try with an arbitrary method
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<Retistic> Xeago: nope, if i just run " %w[create].each { |action| puts valid_parameters }" i get the same error
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<Retistic> Xeago: i believe the issue is ruby 1.9.x the block scope has been changed to exclude local variables in the enclosing scope
<mattt> anyone here use thor ?
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<hoelzro> Retistic: I don't think 1.9 does exclude local variables in the enclosing scope
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<hoelzro> the difference is that parameters to a block are automatically local to the block
<hoelzro> and you can declare additional block-local variables in the parameter list
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<Retistic> hoelzro: what do you meant by "and you can declare additional block-local variables in the parameter list"
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<hoelzro> ex. array.each do |element; square| square = element * element end
<hoelzro> Retistic: ^
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<rohit> ; -> ,
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<ddd> he means the 'element' and 'square' variables there
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<ddd> sorry, meet lots of users that don't really _know_ which are the block-locals, only reason i piped up
<ddd> i'll stfu now :)
<Retistic> hoelzro: are you saying that square is previously defined in the enclosing block scope? where would square come from?
<H1gh> how i can do paragraphs using gsub
<H1gh> i got .gsub("\n", "")
<H1gh> and it put the words in random spots
<hoelzro> Retistic: what that does is it makes sure that square is local to the each block
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<hoelzro> so if square exists in the enclosing scope, it won't be overwritten
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<hoelzro> that's what the semicolon does
<hoelzro> compare this:
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<hoelzro> square = 100; (1..5).each do |n| square = n * n end
<hoelzro> to this:
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<hoelzro> square = 100; (1..5).each do |n; square| square = n * n end
<hoelzro> in the first, square ends up being 25
<hoelzro> in the second, it stays at 100
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<apeiros_> rohit: that ; is intentional
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<H1gh> hoelzro: you know solve my problem with gsub?
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<hoelzro> H1gh: no
<ddd> oh damn! got taught something new!
<rohit> apeiros_, Any source for more information about that? I'm seeing it for the first time tbh :)
<ddd> so square gets reset to 100 at the end of each run of .each?
<apeiros_> rohit: hm, NEWS/CHANGELOG of ruby 1.9
<hoelzro> ddd: it's not reset; it's just scoping rules
<apeiros_> rohit: the whole purpose of it is what hoelzro just explained
<apeiros_> ddd: it's more like the two are different variables
<apeiros_> (aka scoping)
<hoelzro> apeiros_: that's a much better explanation, thanks!
<rohit> Ah cool
<ddd> and the ; applies to the var *after* it? (i was thinking it applied to the n, aka applied to the var before it)
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<rohit> I remember reading about this on some blog when some version of Ruby was released, probably Ruby 1.9.3
<rohit> apeiros_, hoelzro thanks :)
<ddd> just trying to define the rules to ;
<hoelzro> ddd: yes
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<ddd> ok, thanks for that.
<hoelzro> in 1.9, n is *always* local to the block
<ddd> damn, learn something new every day
<hoelzro> n = 100 (1..5).each do |n| end
<hoelzro> that will have different results in 1.8 and 1.9
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<ddd> oh, i thought in both it would be 1,2,3,4,5 respectively
<hoelzro> it will
<hoelzro> what's important is the value of n after each returns
<ddd> and n will be 5 after the run? externally?
<hoelzro> it will in 1.8
<hoelzro> in 1.9, it will be 100
<ddd> or does n stay at 100 because n was scoped into the block?
<ddd> ahh
<hoelzro> rule of thumb: in 1.9, everything in the parameter list (between |...|) is block local
<ddd> for the ;, is that specfiically 1.9 syntax?
<hoelzro> everything before an optional semicolon is a block parameter
<hoelzro> ddd: yes
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<Spami> hello
<H1gh> anyone know do paragraphs with gsub?
<ddd> esoteric question. the ; after the n = 100 was just to not have to write a newline correct? that wasn't tied to the ; in the block, correct?
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<ddd> the ; in the block was the individual syntax change you were talking about is what i mean
<hoelzro> ddd: which example is that in?
<ddd> sec
<Spami> Two quick questions: I'm using the gem ActiveAdmin and I'd like to forbid the use a negative integer when I create a form. And I also have a date field, how can set the date at the actual date today in the form ?
<workmad3> ooh, I didn't know about being able to declare block-local vars :)
<ddd> oh sorry I meant square. square = 100; (1..5).each do |n; square| square = n * n end
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<hoelzro> ddd: in that case, yes
<hoelzro> it's just a statement separator there
<ddd> ok
<Retistic> hoelzro: thank you for that lesson, very helpful
<hoelzro> hth =)
<ddd> yes, thank you
<elaptics> woo, weird. Same chat about block level vars in #rubyonrails channel too...
<hoelzro> it's all from The Ruby Programming Language
<hoelzro> *great* book
<ddd> yeah i didn't see anything about that in The Well-Grounded Rubyist
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<Retistic> elaptics: i brought it up, figuring someone would know better here hehe and hoelzro explained it to everyone :-D
<ddd> that was what I used to learn ruby
<workmad3> hoelzro: so, in more jargony terms, |n; square| lets you define a block-local var to shadow the external scope rather than a closure over square from the external scope :)
<workmad3> ddd: is TWGR 1.8 or 1.9?
<ddd> 1.9
<hoelzro> workmad3: yes.
<hoelzro> =)
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<ddd> what is a closure in workmad3's jargony expl?
<ddd> i understand the shadow, not what a closure is
<Retistic> ddd: don't mind workmad3
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<hoelzro> hmm
<ddd> no, because if other programmers use it, I want to understand what they mean.
<workmad3> ddd: you know when you use a local variable inside a block that's been declared outside a block?
<ddd> i'm *fairly* quick with conceptuals
<workmad3> ddd: that's a closure
<ddd> right but that n = 100 and .each |n| are different n's anyways
<workmad3> ddd: it's basically a term for encapsulating the concept of 'closing over' some part of the environment/binding
<Retistic> workmad3: well put
<hoelzro> Ruby uses blocks so much that it kind of hides what a closure is from most users
<workmad3> ddd: sure, but if you did 'n = 100; .each { n }' then 'n' has now formed a 'closure' over the local variable 'n'
<ddd> ohhhh, ok i get it now
<workmad3> ddd: whereas 'n = 100; .each {|n| n }', 'n' then shadows the local var 'n'
<ddd> with the 2nd n being the outer n correct?
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<workmad3> ddd: yes
<Retistic> workmad3: do you know technically how the "shadowing" occurs? if it were c i would assume it was pointer reference
<ddd> ok
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<workmad3> Retistic: different stack frames, I believe
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<workmad3> Retistic: with the 'n' if the shadowed stack frame being separated from the binding in the closure
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<workmad3> Retistic: people more familiar with the ruby internals will know more than me though :)
<ddd> hehe, i'm finding it difficult to map some of the syntax into the yarv instruction commands. (been reading the Ruby Under a Microscope book)
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<ddd> i take it thats what you're referencing for how shadowing is technically done
<workmad3> ddd: I'm *guessing* that shadowing is done via the stack frames, yes :)
<ddd> ok. just making sure i was groking the where :)
<workmad3> however, I bet there are multiple ways of doing it
<ddd> a *lot* of the concepts to how ruby works internally are *extremely* difficult to grasp. i barely have a grasp on the basics.
<Retistic> workmad3: i think its interesting how many people use ruby with very little understanding of how it works, more so than in other languages. it hides the uglies
<ddd> but its been one hell of an interesting read
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<ddd> that RUAM book i can see I'm going to have to read 7 or 8 times before I really get a decent understanding.
<workmad3> ddd: I'm sure it is :) and yeah, the internals of ruby will involve both compiler theory and virtual machine theory
<Retistic> ddd: i think most people are attracted to ruby because of how intuitive and simple it is, and because it abstracts the tough stuff
<workmad3> ddd: both areas that I'm pretty poor on myself :)
<ddd> Retistic: well, to me its because understanding the internals isn't a requisite for *using* the language. just knowing the internals will flesh out your understanding a bit more of the technicals behind the syntax and constructs you use while coding
<ddd> Retistic: yeah thats what got me hooked on ruby.
<ddd> its a really expressive and powerful yet simplistic language. and it reads (generally) so clearly
<workmad3> Retistic: I suspect that if you look, you'll find a large proportion of any language's community don't actually understand how their compilers and runtimes work
<Retistic> ddd: in basic programming i would agree, but in performance intense activities it's incredibly important to know the internals work, say in graphics processing
<ddd> i know a great many coders in C that don't understand the full parsing, linking, compiling stages of the C compiler but it doesn't stop them from writing good C programs
<ddd> Retistic: oh i wouldn't argue against that point.
<Retistic> workmad3: i completely agree, i just have a hunch that its more so in ruby… simple based upon the perceived target segment it appeals to
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<ddd> however, i would posit that generally that level of knowledge of the internals isn't needed for most programming tasks. well, whats generally encountered on a daily basis.
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<workmad3> Retistic: even performance intensive tasks like graphics don't need the coders to be aware of the internals of the compiler in a lot of cases
<ddd> well, maybe i'm wrong even in that, because knowing how its stored on the stack and how ruby moves the pointers etc for methods and top-level might help you in selecting a specific language construct over another.
<Retistic> workmad3: i don't think understanding how a closure variable is linked is as low level as understanding a compiler
<ddd> for example to gain speed in execution. but wouldn't that be considered a senior or well-advanced knowledge?
<ddd> Retistic: i think he means conceptually
<ddd> conceptually understanding a closure var vs. how its actually implemented
<workmad3> Retistic: depends how deeply you go... understanding it on the stack-frame level is pretty low-level and requires you to know that the runtime is indeed doing it like that :)
<workmad3> Retistic: however, understanding that closures are linked lexically, and the difference between shadowing and closing over the variable definitely isn't :)
<workmad3> Retistic: and a lot of people can understand that level without knowing the term 'closure' (like ddd did until 5 minutes ago)
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<ddd> and even learning it quickly it still takes a bit to stick
<ddd> i'm *still* mulling that difference in the head
<Retistic> ddd: its all relative to the job industry you're interested in. school taught languages have a tendency to breed programmers knowledgeable in inner workings, simply because of curriculum requirements
<ddd> Retistic: which I;m about to face starting jan 14
<ddd> s/;/'/
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<workmad3> Retistic: heh :) I think I got through university up to masters level without encountering closures :)
<ddd> thinking this associates will help me understand a lot more of the talks i see in here
<workmad3> Retistic: I had to learn that myself :(
<Retistic> workmad3: :-) definitely, most of cs theory is easy when you view it purely theoretically… its just math after all
<ddd> thats my fear with this degree. I've always sucked at math. A calculator has always been my friend. I just have a hard time remembering all the rules, beyond PEMDAS i mean.
<Retistic> workmad3: good point, i wasn't taught it either
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<workmad3> ddd: it's maths, not algebra :P
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<ddd> workmad3: explain. theories? or concrete maths?
<Retistic> ddd: programming is just math at the end of the day, to be a professional programmer (you can get away with being a web developer) you really need to be comfortable with math
<workmad3> ddd: well, it's all concrete... but it's more about logical reasoning in most ways
<ddd> there seems to be very little theory in this associates. maybe thats just part of bachelors. idk
<workmad3> ddd: which is really the basis of maths
<Retistic> ddd: if you are "memorizing" theorems you're doing it wrong
<ddd> Retistic: I've written some pretty decent and intense stuff without knowing advanced math. i mean most of it is just logical ordering without really having to know the mathematics behind it
<ddd> maybe i'm just doing the math in the head and not realizing its 'math'
<ddd> idk
<workmad3> ddd: however, depending on which aspects you're looking at changes how you're doing it... things like Turing Machines (which are a basic model of computation) are mathematical, most closely related to set theory, I believ
<Retistic> ddd: as workmad3 said its not about advanced math (necessarily) its about the logic and understanding
<ddd> i do know i see people saying you have to be really good at math to be a good programmer, i'm just not understanding how (unless you mean like C with pointers, or using the extended math libraries, which I have not done)
<Retistic> ddd: voice biometrics, Fourier transforms, encryption, graphics rendering
<workmad3> ddd: and a turing machine is the construct of 'you have a machine, it can read a symbol off a tape, it can write a symbol on the tape, it can move along the tape, the tape is infinite, the machine can change behaviour based on the symbol read, etc'
<ddd> Retistic: ok, then maybe i'm just understanding concepts and not recognizing that its really math underneath. i'm fairly good with logic and gaining understanding of how the rules work if not the why of the rules.
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<Retistic> i can go on forever about software that requires an advanced knowledge of math
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<workmad3> Retistic: those areas require advanced knowledge of specific maths for the domain though, rather than for the programming :)
<ddd> workmad3: ok, didn't realize that was a turing machine, i do recognize its procedural
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<Retistic> ddd: thats the important part
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<ddd> is that the 'logic and understanding' you were pointing out?
<workmad3> ddd: well, the turing machine is a mathematical construct ;)
<ddd> just to peg my concept of what i think you're saying to something
<Retistic> workmad3: programming is only a tool, and frequently it requires domain specific knowledge (math more times than not) to make it useful
<Retistic> workmad3: not to mention bytes, and understanding data structures and how they live n memory
<ddd> workmad3: 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4 with 4 being the final result of the tape being written
<Retistic> workmad3: math is everywhere in programming
<workmad3> Retistic: math is everywhere :)
<workmad3> Retistic: people just don't realise it
<Retistic> workmad3: touché, its about harnessing it though which is what programmers do
<Retistic> well not me, but good ones do
<ddd> the logic being the machine knowing how to step through each 1, and the ability to recognize and operate on state changes (1 + 1 = 2 so storage of the fact that A) its now 2, and B) that it actually changed from 1)
<ddd> workmad3: the math everywhere comment I agree with
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<ddd> my kid can 'see'' that math everywhere. wish i could :)
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<workmad3> Retistic: it's also the levels of abstraction built on top of the mathematical theorems that underpin everything
<Retistic> workmad3: like ruby!
<workmad3> Retistic: like any language used nowadays ;)
<ddd> he says he sees the little lines that form an angle and the math needed to calculate it when he looks at things. kid's a fucking *genius* when it comes to math. he rivals most of his professors
<workmad3> Retistic: even something like C is a lot of abstraction that bears very little resemblence to what *actually* happens on the CPU
<ddd> i think thats one of the hard things, and something i don't fully understand. I can see the abstraction, *realize* that its an abstraction, but I don't understand the underpinnings
<workmad3> Retistic: well, unless you're coding a PDP-11... then C is pretty much exactly what is happening on the CPU :)
<ddd> but i can still use the abstraction to do what I want.
<workmad3> ddd: that's the point of an abstraction :)
<workmad3> ddd: and it's great... until the abstraction leaks
<ddd> like take ActiveRecord and how it works with records. I know thats all math behind how it does it and does it the way it does, but I don't understand any of that. I just know the abstraction 'where' or 'find' does what I want.
<Retistic> workmad3: ironically my friend's little brother is a genius, probably the smartest person i ever met. he used to teach me multivariable calculus when he was in middle school. he had a pick of any university in the world, went to cambridge and they are asking him to stay on for a phd and he's graduating early with a focus in theoretical mathematics, and he hates computers
<workmad3> ddd: if you haven't already, you should read Joel Spolsky's 'Law of Leaky Abstractions' article :)
<workmad3> Retistic: heh :)
<Retistic> workmad3: i think the notion of not being able to control and comprehend everything going on bothers him
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<ddd> Retistic: thats my 15yo. The kid is a fucking genius with math. absolutely stuns his professors. he's in all the advanced classes in high school, and they offer college classes as well. freshman through I think sophmore in college classes. he's already done all of the freshman and junior, and he's *bored* of all things in the sophmore level classes
<Retistic> tbh computers are not pretty. i mean most bugs are fixed by restarting the machine and kicking it a few times
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<ddd> workmad3: let me see if i can find it. the POODR author references him in her book.
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<Retistic> ddd: my question: why is he bored in class? he should be reading textbooks
<workmad3> Retistic: yeah... when you get down to it, a computer is nothing more than a binary state vector that mutates under controlled conditions
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<ddd> Retistic: he says because its too easy. The only class he had problems with was the CAD class.
<ddd> was some advanced class on how CAD software works internally.
<Retistic> my friend literally taught himself everything in middle school, by the time he got to high school he was just pissing off teachers
<ddd> hahahah thats Josh :)
<workmad3> Retistic: it's just that the state vector is billions of digits long, the number of transitions are massive, and the difference between a 'correct' state and an 'incorrect' state are frequently so minor that a mere mortal can't spot them
<workmad3> ddd: that's the one :)
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<ddd> workmad3: ok cool. will read it after i finish this POODR chapter
<Retistic> unfortunately with that comes a lot of social issues, he has a tough time socially and gets frustrated with and alienates most people
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<workmad3> when you get down to it, people hate being reminded that someone else is smarter than they are
<workmad3> and with very intelligent people, they can't hide the fact that they are massively more intelligent
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<workmad3> not to mention that they view things differently... they have a different set of internal filters processing information, they act on it differently
<ddd> Retistic: now thats me. I'm not book smart in the way that Josh is, I'm just lightening quick with conceptual models, and am more than fairly intelligent (well if you believe all the damned test scores). I have a problem relating to a lot of people in daily life. I find them.. not stupid, just really really slow in getting things. One of the reasons I like channels like this and hanging with programmers and physicists. They challenge me in thinking etc.
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<Retistic> workmad3: i remember having an assignment to create hardware that could do multiplication and then after no one actually got it right, being told eh, multiplication is done in software usually
<workmad3> it all ends up as most of the populace can sense that this person is 'different' and will attempt to force conformity or drive the person from the group
<workmad3> Retistic: heh :)
<ddd> i find most IRL people irritating and slow. so I tend to stay away from people generally, or i say something that pisses them off, or just get irritated because they can't grasp what to me seems a simple concept.
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<ddd> here i fit in, and actually am at the lower end of the knowledge pool, so i fit in :)
<Retistic> workmad3: yeah
<Retistic> ddd: thats whats cool about programmers, and they all have diverse backgrounds
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<ddd> My son Josh is going through that now. he's so smart that he says most people irritate the shit out of him. he HATES having to slow down for others
<workmad3> Retistic: my background isn't diverse :P it was pretty much all 'computer computer computer' up until I met my wife :)
<ddd> Retistic: oh yeah, definitely. This crowd *teaches* me something new almost every day
<workmad3> Retistic: she's a philosopher... and man has that different viewpoint helped me branch out in ways I couldn't have expected :)
<Retistic> workmad3: lol, fair enough. a lot of programmers i know seem to get into it inadvertently
<shevy> workmad3: and your wife likes computers?
<Retistic> workmad3: i LOVE philosophy
<workmad3> shevy: yup, but doesn't do programming
<ddd> and I struggle understanding a lot of what the regulars in this and other channels are talking about. THAT is something i really love. they make me think, I have to catch up to *them* not the other way around.
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<workmad3> Retistic: I've gained an appreciation for it :)
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<workmad3> Retistic: and I'd like to get a better grasp on analytical philosophy
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<ddd> i like philosophy. it challenges conceptions, makes you think of different tangents that you wouldn't have otherwise considered.
<Retistic> ddd: keep in mind that knowledge is a fragment of visible intelligence, though it is pretty easy to display dominance over ignorant people by flaunting it
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<ddd> even if you disagree with a tangent's viewpoint, it still makes for a thought provoking journey
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<Retistic> workmad3: iirc you live in england?
<workmad3> Retistic: yup
<workmad3> Retistic: I'm from Englandshire :)
<ddd> Retistic: not trying to flaunt it, its just almost like I talk a foreign language to people. it.. pushes them away.. i guess is the best way i can explain it.
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<workmad3> ddd: heh :) I've talked about maths at people before... apparently they looked like a rabbit trapped in headlights...
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<Retistic> workmad3: I'm in love with dawkins
<ddd> its why its so hard to make friends. they want to talk about the new beer. i couldn't care less. they don't want to discuss stars, planets, conceptual constructs like string theory or M-theory, programming or any of the things that really interest *me*
<ddd> workmad3: lol yeah
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<Retistic> workmad3: and christopher hutchins
<workmad3> ddd: but yes, it does push people away... when they talk about something and you go 'ah yes, it's like <random spiel into quantum mechanics, philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and back to topic>'...
<ddd> this is why most of my friends are digital constructs on irc :)
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<ddd> workmad3: oh definitely. but thats how my brain works. *I* feel sluggish when I have to break it down to really small bits of the overall concept so they grok what I'm saying.
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<Retistic> ddd: you should try to get involved with some meet ups near you
<ddd> it elongates the conversation like 10 times longer than it needs to be
<workmad3> ddd: my friends are mostly online too, the few people I class as RL friends are all people that can do similar :)
<Retistic> ddd: unless you live where i live, there has to be some form of intelligence near you
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<Retistic> :-( you guys are my only friends online
<ddd> i'm really rural. and its mostly farmers here
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<ddd> Retdon't :( i'm the same way
<workmad3> Retistic: why the sad face at that?
<ddd> most of the people i consider friends are irc nicks :)
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<Retistic> workmad3: cause my friends in real life spend most of their time partaking in superficial activitied
<shevy> SHOW THEM THE POWER OF IRC!!!
<Retistic> i live in los angeles, near hollywood
<workmad3> Retistic: 'friends' or acquaintances?
<shevy> cool
<shevy> what can people do in LA?
<workmad3> shevy: trip over out of work actors?
<Retistic> workmad3: i'm pretty sure that all friends in la are called acquaintances elsewhere
<shevy> can't be that many!
<ddd> i hve very very few IRL 'friends'. Most of the people I know IRL are either 'acquaintances' or passer-bys
<workmad3> that's my guess anyway :)
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<Retistic> IRL?
<ddd> In Real Life
<Retistic> ah, lol
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<ddd> as opposed to this medium we;re talking on
<workmad3> ddd: what? IRC isn't real?
<Retistic> yeah, i'm not very geeky but sometimes i wish i was
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<ddd> workmad3: see now I disagree when people say IRC isn't real. You're still interacting with another human even if you are typing out everything
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<workmad3> ddd: are you suggesting that IRC confirms solipsism? That what I'm talking to are actually artifical constructs of my brain? :P
<ddd> its like a phone. The conversation is real, the thoughts and motivations behind the comments made are real.
<Retistic> ddd: is Facebook real?
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<ddd> so how is IRC not real?
<ddd> Retistic: well its real insofar as that humans are interacting
<ddd> now the *quality* of that interaction.. hehe
<ddd> probably not so much :)
<workmad3> ddd: people are still hung-up on the concept that knowing a person involves geographical co-location of some degree
<Retistic> workmad3: i github stalked you because who knows when i'll be on irc again
<ddd> workmad3: i can see that. but you and I would never have met and been able to converse if that were the primary axiom upon which we should judge
<ddd> and I don't believe that
<ddd> you're just as real as if you were right next to me, even if the conceptual idea of 'you' is a blank slate in the mind. (eg no face pops up except your picture that i've seen online, etc)
<workmad3> ddd: yes, but if you go back 30 years then physical co-location was the only practical way to get to know someone
<ddd> i mean can you fake an entire existance online? sure
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<workmad3> ddd: so it's really more of a social inertia to the concept that friendship can now transcend geographical constraints (and it is slowly shifting I believe)
<Retistic> one of the most fascinating things is getting to know someone online before meeting them in person
<ddd> so yes, there is an element of non-reality to it all, however if you look soley at the interaction, and the person on the other end is actually trying to communicate, yes I would consider that 'real'
<workmad3> Retistic: yeah :)
<workmad3> Retistic: incidentally, that's how I met my wife :)
<mattt> ddd: are you a farmer
<Retistic> workmad3: it makes me sad to know there's a good chance i wouldn't talk to them on the street and i'd opt to talk to the model instead
<ddd> workmad3: yeah, and i believe it to be the internet's capability to link others at far distances as if they were right there, and the fact that its becoming such an intricate part of every day human existance in advanced societies
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<ddd> matti: no. though I would like to grow some of my own veggies and fruits.
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<workmad3> ddd: I guess there's also an element of virtual communication not being able to convey certain aspects of communication, like body language and other subtle conversational cues
<Retistic> mattt: random?
<workmad3> ddd: however, I think that a lot of the people that interact online are ones where those cues are less important anyway :)
<mattt> Retistic: 13:05 < ddd> i'm really rural. and its mostly farmers here
<ddd> workmad3: yeah that i can agree with, which is why there are so many disagreements and why trolls can survive on the internet
<Retistic> mattt: a bit delayed?
<ddd> Retistic: hehe no not random :)
<mattt> delayed yes, random no :)
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<Retistic> mattt: haha ok
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<ddd> hey you pop into the conversations when you see them. i've commented back to people almsot a full day after they said something because I didn't see it until I read backscroll
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<ddd> though i do tend to ignore anything more than a screen or two back depending on the person that spoke or the entirety of conversations that caught my fancy as i was back-reading
<workmad3> I don't tend to read the backscroll in IRC
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<Retistic> workmad3: what do you do IRL
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<ddd> workmad3: yeah I have to be highlighted in general for me to feel the desire to scroll back. Unless its channels like this where i know there are good nuggets of information. or at least a good chance that I'll find something worth reading
<workmad3> Retistic: programming
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<Retistic> i prefer to watch philosophical debates
<ddd> i like TED talks
<Retistic> workmad3: do you freelance, work for a company, teach?
<workmad3> Retistic: work for a company
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<Retistic> ddd: i think i've seen them all like 5x :-D
<Retistic> workmad3: nice
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<workmad3> Retistic: I've done some teaching though :)
<ddd> i watch a lot of those. But i personally spend most of my time at the computer,and do so doing research or catching up on stuff people pitched at me that i should read (damned if my browser doesn't usually have 50 or so tabs allw aiting for me to read this or that someone said i should look at heheh)
<ddd> or i'm writing code and tests like workmad3
<mattt> i've been watching a few videos on confreaks lately
<mattt> but the talks are a bit hit and miss
<Retistic> ddd: i got 16gb so i could have 100+ tabs open at all times :-D
<workmad3> I don't manage to watch many videos
<ddd> mattt you see the ruby 2.0 walkthrough one?
<workmad3> I'd much rather read a transcript a lot of the time
<mattt> ddd: didn't, no ... worth watching ?
<ddd> Retistic: I've a 2011 maxed out MBP with 16GB of RAm as well
<workmad3> simply because then I could get through it without spending an hour
<ddd> mattt yeah if you're technically inclined, DEFINITELY worth watching
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<mattt> ddd: i just started using ruby for a project, so will probably be lost on me
<mattt> may watch it anyway tho
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<workmad3> started up on listening to RR podcasts again today though :)
<ddd> workmad3: i prefer videos because they engage more than one sense, so I tend to retain more
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<Retistic> ddd: me too with retina display :-D
<ddd> mattt: worth watching even if you only catch a 1/3 of it all
<ddd> Retistic: I got the hi-res. retina wasn't available when i bought. i bought the refresh *just* behind the retina release
<Jake232> What am I missing here? https://gist.github.com/ccbe0a0574f96135efa1
<workmad3> ddd: as I'm sure you've guessed, my reading recall is pretty good :)
<Retistic> ddd: you're not missing much
<ddd> workmad3: yeah :)
<ddd> mine is slowly improving
<ddd> i more get distracted with this or that. thats my problem
<workmad3> ddd: I can't generally remember the exact thing I read, but I recall 'oh yes, I read something about that in ...'
<ddd> so many applicable tangents to what I'm doing its easy to get distracted and off the main focus
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<Retistic> Jake232: what on earth is that and why?
<rasmusth> why doesn't ruby have a ++ operator?
<workmad3> rasmusth: because it would be conceptually difficult to fit into the syntax
<ddd> workmad3: yeah i'm the same way. I usually remember reading something somewhere even if i don't recall where the somewhere is. Tis why i love delicio.us and my cache :)
<Retistic> rasmusth: is +1 really that hard to type?
<Jake232> Retistic: Some code that I'm having to fix up, they designed it like this to get the effect of namespaces
<workmad3> Retistic: what? you do 'a += 1' rather than 'a = a.succ'?
<rasmusth> Retistic: you'd have to type += 1
<rasmusth> not +1
<ddd> lol, well +=1 is definitely more understandable on what its doing than .succ
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: ping
<ddd> even for someone that doesn't know the language
<workmad3> ddd: .succ == successor
<Retistic> rasmusth: my mistake
<ddd> right. *I* knew that but only because I read a lot :)
<workmad3> ddd: perfectly understandable if you know Peano's Axioms :P
<ddd> which i don't i don't think. Peano isn't ringing a bell
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<workmad3> ddd: and what are you doing playing around with natural number arithmetic if you don't know Peano's Axioms? :)
<ddd> hahaha
<ddd> you suck! ;)
<ddd> yer giving me too much shit to look up and read!
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<workmad3> ddd: all you really need to know about Peano's Axioms are that they're a set of 5 axioms (a.k.a. assumptions) from which you can derive number theory
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<ddd> workmad3: you are one of those that firmly and constantly exploit my desire to explore and learn. You send me to so many places its not funny! I think nearly half my tabs are from shit you've kicked to me :)
<workmad3> ddd: so they're a formalism for putting the natural numbers (and the basic operations of natural numbers) on a solid foundation
<Retistic> workmad3: Peano lied
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<Retistic> he's a liar, don't listen!
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<ddd> i can almost hear him typing like a mad man to finish the explanation :)
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<workmad3> oh wait, ignore the '5 axioms', that's me getting mixed up with Euclid
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<ddd> yeah now him I know
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<ddd> he created a whole field of mathematics didn't he? not just a couple formulisms?
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<ddd> geometry iirc
<ddd> racking the brain here
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<workmad3> Euclid did, yeah
<workmad3> Euclid is sometimes called the father of geometry
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<ddd> lets see what wikipedia has
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<ddd> ah yeah, you stole that right from the wiki ;)
<workmad3> possibly, but not right now :P
<ddd> lol
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<workmad3> and more specifically, Euclid axiomatised and explored Euclidean geometry as it's now known :)
<Morkel> Does anyone know a good Data Analysis Library for Ruby?
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<workmad3> although it took a long, long time before people started exploring the concept of non-Euclidean geometries
<workmad3> and the work for that grew out of people attempting to prove Euclid's 5th axiom (the parallel postulate) from the other 4 because the 5th axiom seemed like it should be provable (it turns out that Euclid was right, it is an axiom, and if you relax it you get spherical geometry and hyperbolic geometry)
<Retistic> Morkel: euclid's axioms
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<ddd> well look at Capernicus and how long it took for people to stop looking at the previous models. (Pellum or something like that. The non-heliocentric model)
<ddd> ptolemaic
<Morkel> Retistic: do you have a link?
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<workmad3> what I love about Copernicus is that the Ptolemaic model is equally as valid... it's just a crapload more effort to work out the sums for it :)
<workmad3> it's just a case of picking a frame of reference
<kalleth> what the hell do those words even mean
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<Retistic> workmad3: I'm a terrible person ^
<workmad3> Retistic: you sure are :D
<kalleth> its times like these in programming chat rooms
<kalleth> t
<kalleth> ha
<kalleth> that make me feel completely retarded
<Morkel> Retistic: Nice Lib :-)
<workmad3> Morkel: ignore Retistic, he's trolling you... I don't know of any :)
<Retistic> workmad3: how dare he ask a programming question
<erichmenge> I'm so burned out on school...
<workmad3> Morkel: they probably exist though
<erichmenge> I don't want to think about Euclid at all.
<ddd> workmad3: but Ptolemaic model has definitely been proven to be wrong insofar as that we are NOT the center of the universe. Though you are right that we COULD be if you chose to center the universe by using us AS that center.
<ddd> but the reality of life is that Capernicus was correct
<Morkel> workmad3: i know so many with python but nothing in ruby
<workmad3> ddd: we *are* the center of the universe in some sense
<ddd> only because we're the only known lifeforms so far
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<workmad3> ddd: if you look in all directions, the observable universe stretches equally in all directions, as far as we can tell
<workmad3> ddd: so how is that not the centre of our observable universe?
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<ddd> i mean the lifeforms on this planet
<kalleth> STOP TALKING ABOUT DIFFICULT CONCEPTS
<kalleth> ASK ABOUT SYMBOLS AND STRINGS DAMMIT
<workmad3> ddd: it's all about picking your frame of reference and structuring appropriately :)
<ddd> workmad3: because *positionally* we're not
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<workmad3> ddd: prove we aren't
<ddd> workmad3: hehe that can be said of most things in life
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<ddd> workmad3: i can point you at the distance of our planet just from the galactic center, nevermind the position of the Milky Way within the Local Cluster
<workmad3> ddd: and as I said - go by the observable universe, it stretches equally in all directions... that sounds like the centre of a sphere to me :P
<ddd> that alone proves it :)
<workmad3> ddd: no it doesn't
<ddd> I don't see how it doesn't
<workmad3> ddd: it just proves that we aren't at the centre of a local construct
<Retistic> workmad3: if you think our perception has anything to do with the truth you could definitely contribute to the religious condition
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<workmad3> ddd: and besides, we could calculate everything out from us being at the centre of the milky way, or the local structure and the maths would work out fine
<ddd> and that local construct isn't even centered within the its own sphere of collective influence
<workmad3> ddd: it would just be more complicated
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<Retistic> kalleth: whats difficult about trigonometry?
<ddd> we're at the tip of a single spiral arm in a galaxy that has many
<kalleth> Retistic: everything
<kalleth> =[
<ddd> how could we be centric?
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<workmad3> ddd: what exists outside the observable universe?
<erichmenge> kalleth: SOHCAHTOA
<ddd> i mean we're not even centralized positionally within our own immediate point of occupation!
<erichmenge> all you need for trig.
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<Retistic> erichmenge: lmao
<workmad3> ddd: and what are we, other than the centre of the observable universe, as our observations extend equally in all directions?
<kalleth> erichmenge: unfortunately my degree engineering mathematics classes thought differently :(
<kalleth> IDENTITIES
<ddd> workmad3: I don't have to reach to back before the big bang (or i think its about 1M years before is the max light we've caught)
<kalleth> DIFFERENTIATION AND INTEGRATION OF TRIGONOMETRIC FUNCTIONS
<kalleth> MATRICES
<kalleth> (Which aren't trig)
<kalleth> (and are also quite easy)
<apeiros_> can somebody clone https://github.com/apeiros/teaching_rpg and see whether it flickers on his computer?
<ddd> workmad3: ohhhh Im getting it now
<apeiros_> it's the start of a small rpg
<apeiros_> (contributors are btw. very welcome!)
<workmad3> ddd: exactly, it's all about the frame of reference ;)
<ddd> workmad3: you mean if you ONLY took the observable and used that
<ddd> i got you. my bad
<workmad3> ddd: in some sense, we *are* the centre of the universe
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<Retistic> workmad3: how do you define center?
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<ddd> workmad3: ok, based on that I can see my way to accepting that reference point
<ddd> Retistic: us
<workmad3> ddd: however, that makes orbital mechanics stupidly, insanely difficult to work out
<Retistic> and why do you keep putting those dame asterisks around "are"
<ddd> the observable. who is observing? us
<ddd> so we are the center of that
<erichmenge> kalleth: I integrated me some trig functions in my time.
<apeiros_> not we. I.
<apeiros_> ;-)
<Retistic> ddd: well if you define center as us, then of course we are the center. thats a silly argument
<workmad3> ddd: if the universe is truly infinite, then any point that an observer is observing at is, at that time, the centre of their observable universe
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<ddd> workmad3: which is why Capernicus was able to overthrow the Ptolemaic model. By mathematically proving a different *and observable* frame of reference
<Retistic> erichmenge: what about arc functions
<workmad3> ddd: and even better, a frame of reference that was simpler
<ddd> Retistic: stress points. stress that word when speaking it
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<Retistic> workmad3: by definition you're right, but not really saying muc
<kalleth> erichmenge: i wish i never had to :(
<Retistic> much
<ddd> like ** or __ or — around a word
<workmad3> Retistic: exactly... it's an entirely correct, but entirely useless, point
<ddd> like saying you ARE the weakest link.
<erichmenge> Retistic: Sure, why not? Anyway, speaking of math and all that good stuff, time for me to head to school.
<ddd> rather than cap it, so its not looking like I'm yelling it, just stressing it
<workmad3> Retistic: but it emphasises that something like the 'centre of the universe' is actually, as far as we can tell, a useless and unprovable statement
<Retistic> the sky is always blue
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<ddd> Retistic: it may be a silly argument to you, but that was what the whole Capernican Revolution was all about
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<Retistic> workmad3: sounds like something a religious person would say
<workmad3> Retistic: we can't prove that we aren't the centre of the universe, we can't prove that we are, we can construct reasoning around the subject that allows for it either way
<workmad3> Retistic: a religious person wouldn't categorise it as a useless statement ;)
<Retistic> ddd: there were a lot of silly arguments people deliberated over when they had little knowledge of science
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<ddd> he changed the reference point, and *showed* that it *could* be changed, because the math behind it was emphatically simpler and cleaner. Remember, the frame of reference for most mathematicians is the cleaner the math the truer it is
<Retistic> workmad3: thats my point
<workmad3> Retistic: when you actually boil it down, something like 'position' isn't even an absolute concept :)
<ddd> Retistic: hehe, welcome to the evolution of scientific knowledge and the mechanics behind how it works :)
<ddd> workmad3: well einstein and hawking both proved out non-absolutism
<Morkel> Does anyone use Python?
<Retistic> workmad3: position can absolutely be theoretically absolute
<workmad3> ddd: relative position was actually demonstrated by Newton ;)
<ddd> even if you took a point and named it as n absolute point somewhere, its still *relative* to a specific frame.
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<Retistic> a point at 1,1,1 has an absolute position
<ddd> oh, I thought SR proved that
<workmad3> ddd: just newtonian mechanics still depended on an absolute time
<workmad3> ddd: relativity goes further and throws out time as an absolute concept
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<ddd> Retistic: nope. only absolute within its relational framework. its 'where'
<vectorshelve> I have a attribute of type text and I need to validate that field to contain a 10 digit number (phone number)
<workmad3> Retistic: very good point, you can construct a frame of reference with absolute position
<Retistic> ddd: you're essentially making the claim that measurement is relative in nature. again, true, but whats the point
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<workmad3> Retistic: and mathematically this tends to be done implicitly when constructing a geometry :)
<ddd> workmad3: actually you would need the frame of reference before you could name an absolute point
<ddd> s/point/position
<ddd> /
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<workmad3> ddd: that's what I said - a frame of reference with absolute position means 'a frame of reference, in which positions can be given in absolute terms'
<ddd> Retistic: because by naming and proving that claim, you open the door for other machanisms
<Retistic> ddd: but that frame of reference would by definition need to have an absolute position
<ddd> other mechanisms which further the frame of knowledge, and the available options for getting there
<workmad3> ddd: and you can also work outwards from a position given in absolute terms to the frame of reference :)
<Retistic> ddd: what is the point x=0, y=0 z=0 in reference to?
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<Retistic> itself?
<ddd> Retistic: a specific coordinate system
<Retistic> ddd: huh?
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<ddd> and thus the 'frame of reference' that coordinate system centers itself on
<Retistic> that point is not relative to a system
<workmad3> Retistic: it is me
<workmad3> Retistic: because you defined the reference point as me
<Retistic> workmad3: lol
<Retistic> workmad3: but true
<Retistic> ddd: thats like saying there had to be some intelligent force that designed the universe
<ddd> but the point i'm making is that 'me' is still relative even if you make the absolute point of starting, you
<Retistic> at some point somewhere it had to be instantiated
<ddd> Retistic: no, I don't believe that to be true
<ddd> but thats my problem with religion in the first place
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<Retistic> ddd: but then who created the creator
<ddd> suspension of belief in order to retain faith
<ddd> removal of proof taht contradicts the faith in some belief
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<ddd> err that
<Retistic> ddd: I'm striking a parallelism to absolute position, not arguing against gaith
<workmad3> Retistic: ah, now we're onto the arguments for and against the existence of a god? Ontological, Teliological and ... something else
<ddd> or ignoring thereof
<Retistic> faith
<Retistic> no, no I'm not starting that
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<workmad3> Retistic: :)
<ddd> hehe, no I just took it to the next step in order to answer his original query
<Retistic> i was just trying to make a point about relative position
<ddd> we're both not going there :)
<ddd> ok, well we *did* go there, but now we're stopping :)
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<workmad3> heh
<ddd> these are not the droids you're looking for. :)
<Retistic> ddd: if 1,-1 is relative to 0,0 then what is 0,0 relative to?
<ddd> self
<workmad3> Retistic: 0,0 is a defined point
<ddd> yes, defined as you
<Retistic> ddd: how can something be relative to itself?
<Retistic> workmad3: thank you, and therefore theoretically absolute
<ddd> so all points outward are relative to the starting point, which is self
<workmad3> Retistic: assuming you're dealing with a metric space, anyway, and one that has an origin, then 0,0, is given as the point from which all other co-ordinates are relative to
<ddd> if you're looking *from* the starting point
<apeiros_> hrm…
<ddd> it can be considered absolute if you're looking *in* at the original frame of reference
<apeiros_> since it went down in all the math talk
<apeiros_> I'll ask again
<apeiros_> can somebody clone https://github.com/apeiros/teaching_rpg and see whether it flickers on his computer?
<Retistic> workmad3: right, but the starting point must be defined in absolute terms
<ddd> apeiros_: sorry :)
<ddd> sec
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<workmad3> Retistic: not at all
<heftig_> Retistic: you don't have to define it at all
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<apeiros_> it's the start of a small rpg, contributors are btw. very welcome!
<apeiros_> note: not all functionality is expected to work yet (e.g. block, use item etc.)
<Retistic> heftig_: without definition it has no sensible meaning
<Retistic> heftig_: without defining the origin somewhere, you would have no point of reference to label points relative to it
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<ddd> apeiros_: no it does not, just goes all white when you hit a target like the decaying corpse
<workmad3> Retistic: you can define a co-ordinate system using just a metric without an origin, then within that co-ordinate system pick an arbitrary point as the origin
<apeiros_> ddd: ugh?
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<workmad3> Retistic: and then you don't need to define an absolute point, you just need to define a metric ;)
<apeiros_> ddd: you mean it clears the screen when you press 'A' in the battle screen?
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<workmad3> Retistic: that metric can be (for example) the speed of light in a vacuum
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<Retistic> workmad3: the point was not that everything is absolutely defined, the point was that there can be a case in which something is absolutely defined
<ddd> run the game and it displays. no flickers, got the colors and the defined blocks. I moved around and hit a decayed corpse. The entire window went white and I got a line saying You encountered a Decaying Corpse
<workmad3> Retistic: sure, mathematically you can absolutely define a point and base it from that
<apeiros_> ddd: ah
<apeiros_> how big is your terminal? 120x40 is required
<workmad3> Retistic: however that absolute definition could also be built on top of a non-absolute definition itself :)
<Retistic> workmad3: ddd said you couldn't, that everything was relative
<ddd> I hit A, got into the fight, I won, and then it redisplayed the window and still not flickering
<apeiros_> you should see a list of actions at the bottom
<workmad3> Retistic: mathematically, you can construct it
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<apeiros_> hm, I really should add the warning if the screen is too small…
<workmad3> Retistic: realistically... you'll have trouble :)
<Retistic> workmad3: it could be, but it could also not be
<ddd> Im larger so it displays all the way to the right of the last line of the displayed area
<ddd> not underneath
<Retistic> workmad3: and i can't even think a proof in which you could accomplish that
<ddd> WASDQ line
<apeiros_> ddd: can you screenshot the battle screen?
<apeiros_> and/or the map?
<workmad3> Retistic: however, an absolute system is likely to be built on an axiom that encodes the origin
<ddd> let me find something to fight
<ddd> or yeah i can screen cap my screen with the map up. sec
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<Retistic> workmad3: its still far from relative
<workmad3> Retistic: yes, but that's constructed to be not relative, in a mathematical sense, rather than proven... but that's true of a lot of maths :)
<workmad3> Retistic: I think ddd just conflated physical theories of reality with pure mathematical constructs though (which is pretty easy to do)
<Retistic> its like trying to have a conversation without an agreed upon absolute definition of language
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<Retistic> its meaningless without an absolute reference point
<apeiros_> ddd: oy, that's peculiar
<apeiros_> ddd: thanks!
<ddd> np
<Retistic> that absolute definition, may in and of itself be entirely fabricated, but it is nevertheless theoretically absolute
<apeiros_> that one line should be below the map, not to its right :-/
<Retistic> all tests passing, time for bed
<ddd> missing newline?
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<workmad3> Retistic: gn :)
<Retistic> ddd: workmad3: good talk
<ddd> workmad3: yeah you may be right (the conflating)
<ddd> Retistic: night
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<ddd> definitely
<workmad3> I'm grabbing lunch now :)
<ddd> me too
<ddd> breakfast actually
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<H1gh> whats wrong with that
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<ner0x> using ruby-build, can you get a list of prerequisites for ubuntu/debian?
<ner0x> I know rvm has the list but that's a bit much for my liking.
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<apeiros_> ddd: yes, looks like
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<workmad3> H1gh: first issue - gets gives you a string, not an integer
<ddd> apeiros_: cool. lemme know when you push, and I'll git pull
<workmad3> H1gh: second problem, if someone enters 1 (after you've gotten a number out of it) then they'll always hit the News Body condition too
<apeiros_> ddd: thanks
<ddd> np
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<ddd> apeiros_: heh was almost going to report having to hit Q twice to quit but its just a delayed (1-2s) quit
<workmad3> ner0x: if there isn't some docs for it with ruby-build, chances are you need to look at the RVM list and install them (you don't have to install RVM to install the packages :P )
<apeiros_> ddd: yeah, it wants to say goodbye ;-)
<apeiros_> 1s
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<ddd> ah
<ddd> if its supposed to display a goodbye I didn't get it. it just sat there that time length then quit
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<ddd> oh wait. its a light light grey on the white background but it *did* display it. ignore me
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<apeiros_> ugh
<ddd> apeiros_: that really light grey is serious easy to miss so you know
<apeiros_> I think colors 0-15 are not reliable
<apeiros_> it should be black
<ddd> ahh
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<ddd> yeah definitely not black :)
<apeiros_> but if you changed your terminal colors, it's probably reversed
<apeiros_> I'm replacing all the 0-15 colors with the 16-255 palette
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<workmad3> are any terminal colours reliable? I thought they were all a user-definable pallete
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<ddd> yeah I'm running Dark Background in iTerm2 under OSX
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<hoelzro> I thought terminal colors were fixed, but curses can remap its colors.
<hoelzro> at least wrt xterm
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<ddd> i don't know. Short of using specific ANSI color codes, i don't know that you can 'fix' them to a certain color. Nor do I think you can override if the client has their terminal set to dismiss anything but their chosen color palete
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<ddd> palette
<workmad3> ddd: the ANSI codes are something you can remap in iTerm, I believe :)
<ddd> but thats not usually a 'default' setting even if they change their color scheme
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<ddd> right, but thats a conscious choice. I was aiming at defaults.
<hoelzro> I suppose it depends on the terminal
<ddd> hoelzro: i'd agree
<workmad3> H1gh: 1) don't PM without asking first
<ddd> it shows the same way in Terminal.app for me too
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<workmad3> H1gh: 2) no, I'll give help but I won't rewrite your code to a working version without you even bothering to try
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<workmad3> (for those interested, just spotted this PM: '14:19 <H1gh> can you edit the code i sent and gist it to see how it works correctly?' )
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<ddd> apeiros_: thats in Terminal.app set to 120x42 for size. Default settings, no changes.
<apeiros_> ddd: yupp, that's how it should look
<apeiros_> and how it looks on my Terminal.app too
<ddd> the text in fights display like a grey. not a sharp black
<apeiros_> I'm almost done replacing the palette
<ddd> ok
<apeiros_> it's a bit fiddling around since it's like \e[48;5;<color code>m
<ddd> well, proves hoelzro's theory on varying terminal apps :)
<workmad3> apeiros_: :( why wsad? why not jkhl? :P
<apeiros_> workmad3: feel free to contribute!
<apeiros_> add a config screen ;-)
<apeiros_> also, this is not vim :-p
<ddd> hahah I was going to ask that, then I thought about most games using wasd like quake, MOHAA, and Black Ops
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<workmad3> heh :) I can just see the eventual screen now - 'keyboard controls: sane or vim'
* ddd snickers
<ner0x> Well, I've successfully installed ruby and am using rbenv.
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<ddd> apeiros_: I wrote a game similar to this in QBASIC when i was a kid called Dungeons of the Gods.
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<ner0x> ddd: Your plurality as a child irks me.
<ddd> ner0x: rockin! least you got one of them installed and working for you. well, actually got 2 didn't you? rbfu was first?
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<ner0x> ddd: I got rbfu, rvm, chruby, and rbenv. Just liked rbenv the best for now.
<apeiros_> ddd: cool
<ddd> ner0x: tough shit. I don't believe in religion other than as part of the historical nature of man to use a God or Gods to explain the unknown
<apeiros_> ddd: I pushed
<ddd> apeiros_: pulling
<ner0x> ddd: You go from hot to cold pretty quickly. :)
<apeiros_> workmad3: hehe, yeeeees, that might be how I'd phrase it :-p
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<ddd> apeiros_: fixed. though the colors are still grey for text, but that is most likely due to my theme
<apeiros_> hm
<apeiros_> where is the color still grey for text? it may be that I missed some
<ddd> ner0x: I am rather blunt. A failing or a feature .. remains to be decided :)
<workmad3> ddd: heh :) I read ner0x's comment and figured he was meaning plurality in the sense of 'Dungeon*s* of the Gods' was awkward :P
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<workmad3> ddd: as opposed to just 'Dungeon of the Gods' :)
<ddd> apeiros_: the white bg for GOODBYE and the fighting text
<ner0x> workmad3: That's exactly what I meant. lol
<ddd> workmad3: I had multiple dungeons. It wasn't just one
<workmad3> ddd: :D
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<ddd> ner0x: sorry, I misunderstood the focus
<ddd> u apologize
<ddd> err I
<workmad3> haha
<ner0x> ddd: You're just an older version of me either way. Non-believing blunt honest man.
<ddd> bleh ;p
<apeiros_> ddd: hm, yeah, no, those are now from the 16-255 palette. if they appear wrongly it means your terminal emulation remapped them (it shouldn't)
<apeiros_> I wonder whether there's a way to instruct an emulation to use the original mapping
<ddd> ner0x: pretty much :) I try to live my life as honest as i can, and I speak my mind. I expect no less from others. I never was good at decorum or politicalness
<ddd> I fail big time at platitude
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<ddd> apeiros_: good question
<ner0x> ddd: Yeah, you're exactly what I am now. I'm just a bit younger.
<ddd> *I* don't know how you would force and override
<ddd> s/and/an/
<ddd> ner0x: good to know :)
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<ij> Can I get the binding of an exception somehow?
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<workmad3> apeiros_: hmm... I had something playing around with colours for ubuntu terminal, looking at it, it makes use of gconf2 and a $PALETTE env string
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<workmad3> apeiros_: so I'm gonna guess that there are ways, but not standardised
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<apeiros_> mhm
<apeiros_> I don't think I'll spend too much time for that
<workmad3> :)
<apeiros_> as I intend to move on to anyway gosu, once the game mechanics are mature
<apeiros_> but if somebody contributes… I'll gladly pull it in
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<apeiros_> the next few things are item mechanics, then item dropping (dead enemies), then leveling, then more advanced fighting…
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<apeiros_> then bigger (scrollable) maps, then connected multiple maps, then story mode…
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<apeiros_> yeah, and around then would be the time where I'd look into having actually nice graphics :D
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<apeiros_> I think the scene and screen handling is halfway sane now. still misses some utilities, though.
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<apeiros_> ddd: what happens when you replace Black with 232 and White with 255 in lib/screen.rb ?
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<ddd> sec
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<apeiros_> o0
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<apeiros_> this is odd
<apeiros_> ah, wait… your top & bottom bars were always black?
<ddd> no no, thats just where your screen pops up within my terminal
<ddd> the spacing
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<apeiros_> no, I mean, the game itself has a top and bottom bar which is black
<apeiros_> in the bottom bar is the available keys (yellow/white)
<apeiros_> hm
<ddd> it seems to pop up a full charactor line down in my screen, meaning not at 0,0
<apeiros_> then it might be another issue…
<ddd> ohh
<ddd> so yea, then they are always black
<apeiros_> how does this render: ruby -e 'puts "\e[38;5;0;48;5;15mHello World\e[0m"'
<ddd> thats in a fight screen. I went a bit larger than what it displays. My background in the terminal is black
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<ddd> for the hello world
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<apeiros_> ok, then it's another issue…
<apeiros_> ooooodd
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<apeiros_> yes, I figured that your background is black and your text normally white :)
<apeiros_> somewhere the reset is wrong I'd say…
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<ddd> ok :) just ensuring it was physically known
<ddd> assumptions with colors usually go awry :)
<apeiros_> ah of course
<apeiros_> padding only sets the background
<apeiros_> stupid me
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<apeiros_> so your terminal is innocent
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<ddd> hahah]
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<apeiros_> ddd: pull & try again please
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<ddd> sec
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<apeiros_> oh
<apeiros_> sorry
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<apeiros_> I should commit before pushing :(
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* apeiros_ lowers his head in shame
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<apeiros_> and to add to my shame, I didn't notice that the push didn't do anything…
<apeiros_> ddd: now it's really pushed. sorry :-)
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<alextheger> hi there
<alextheger> what do i need to do for my rubygems gem to also have documentation at rubydoc.info? In particular this gem: https://rubygems.org/gems/infopark_cloud_connector ??
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<mattt> any thor users here ?
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<wwalker> mattt: You'd be OT, but I know the #adhearsion folks use thor
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<mattt> wwalker: fair enough, thanks for the heads up
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<ddd> apeiros_: so sorry I was on the phone with FreshBooks about writing a Pivotal Tracker integration. What was i supposed to do again? got side tracked
<apeiros_> no poroblems
<apeiros_> poro?
<apeiros_> errr… well
<ddd> oh yeah, pull and retry. I'm looking for .. color changes?
<apeiros_> ddd: just pull and take a look
<apeiros_> right
<ddd> ok
<apeiros_> if you can, please screenshot any badly readable stuff :)
<apeiros_> and hey, thanks a lot! much appreciated :)
<ddd> apeiros_: woot! bang on! sec on the screencap
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<Jonnsta> what is rube?
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<ddd> apeiros_: didn't last long enough for me to capture the Quit :)
<apeiros_> you killed a wabbit! you're a horrible person! that poor wabbit!
<apeiros_> ;-)
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<apeiros_> thanks a lot! looks like it should
<ddd> hahah. cool :)
<Drewch> I used bundler to create a gem, and if I gem install it in a some rvm folder, I can go into irb and do require 'mygem'…. but If I go into the folder where my gem exists, and run bundle install, and then irb, and then require ' mygem'… it says I can't load such file
<Drewch> do I still need to gem install it? isn't that what bundler does
<apeiros_> ddd: oh, you used a different nick before in irc?
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<ddd> yeah. I was deryldoucette
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<apeiros_> hah, good to know. deryldoucette I'd have recognized :)
<ddd> Adoption in Canada not recognized in the states and I'm back in the states so I;m using the states legal name. Deryl R. Doucette vs. David Deryl Downey
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<ddd> now if only we could finish this legal fight over the adoption so i can at least pick a goddamned name and stick with it :)
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<apeiros_> oy
<apeiros_> I wish you good luck!
<ddd> thanks
<ddd> I use Deryl (my US middle name which was my birth name) so if we ever meet at a conf, its Deryl :)
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<apeiros_> ^^
<apeiros_> tell me when you go to a european conf
<apeiros_> US is on my no-fly list
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<workmad3> ddd: my habit at confs (although I don't get to many) is to add my IRC nick to my name-badge so people can recognise me :)
<ddd> workmad3: good call!
<apeiros_> workmad3: doing the same all the time :)
<apeiros_> I think railsberry even printed the nick on the tag
<ddd> ok, gotta clean out the old car so the morons can come get it. Let em repo it the lying bastards.
<ddd> bbiaf
<apeiros_> cya
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: ping - if you come back, can you pull https://github.com/apeiros/teaching_rpg and see whether it still flickers? I changed it to no longer clear the screen on every update…
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* apeiros_ off for ~30min
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<atmosx> hm
<atmosx> github has some issues with octopress all of a suden
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<JonnieCache> github has been having issues all day https://status.github.com/
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<ksinkar> do we have to require some file before we can use the include the Singleton module in our classes?
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<hderms> ksinkar: i don't think so
<hderms> google it
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<Jdubs> Hey guys, how do I control how often a method is called? Like if I'm looping something, how do I keep it from performing more than an action every 2 seconds?
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<Jdubs> I'm writing a bot for reddit, and I need to rate limit to no more than 1 get/post per 2 seconds
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<pyghassen> heloooooooooooooooo
<pyghassen> anybody can say something expect me?
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<Jdubs> pyghassen: hi
<pyghassen> thanks god
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<pyghassen> this is the 3rd irc channel
<pyghassen> I thought the problem was on my end
<pyghassen> I've been in #rails
<pyghassen> and #redmine
<Jdubs> pyghassen, could be...sometimes IRC servers go out of sink, and all the people in the channel aren't getting your messages.
<pyghassen> nobody talks
<Jdubs> sync*
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<pyghassen> what should I do then so people can see my messages
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<Jdubs> pyghassen if you are having problems, try switching to a different server on the same network
<Jdubs> like a different *.freenode.net
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<dstywho> you may need to register your nick too
<axl_> any idea what 'strftime' in Time stands for ?
<shevy> Jdubs: what do you mean, a method gets called only when you tell the script it has to do so
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<shevy> if you want to timeout, use sleep(2) or Thread.new {}
<pyghassen> yeah you were right
<pyghassen> I'm facing some problems
<pyghassen> on mail config on rails
<pyghassen> shoud i try #rails
<axl_> pyghassen: yes
<pyghassen> thanks guys
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<axl_> i think its #rubyonrails
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<vectorshelve> can these two lines be combined into a single line ? https://gist.github.com/4073126
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<Jdubs> shevy: thanks
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<chrisbolton> I'm a junior Ruby developer and looking for some open source projects to contribute to. Any suggestions?
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<Jdubs> chrisbolton: github.com
<jrajav> I recommend jekkyl or sinatra
<chrisbolton> Jdubs: Any more of a narrow focus or should I just start combing github, that's quite the task.
<chrisbolton> jrajav: Awesome. I'll check it out.
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<chrisbolton> Sorry my irc quite unexpectedly.
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<Jdubs> christbolton: happens :)
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<chrisbolton> Jdubs: Thanks for the suggestion. I'm currently combing through the most watched list.
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<eph3meral> chrisbolton: there's not really much of another way to go about it - which ones you feel like contributing to has entirely to do with, well… you
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<chrisbolton> eph3meral: Yeah, now it's time to just start digging in.
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<apeiros_> anybody want to participate in creating an RPG (something akin to FF1/Chronotrigger) in ruby?
<dermot> sure
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<apeiros_> dermot: cool. check out https://github.com/apeiros/teaching_rpg
<JonnieCache> apeiros_: do you need any whizzy sound effects?
<dermot> apeiros_: i was looking at it
<apeiros_> JonnieCache: since I'm not good with graphics&sound - sure!
<dermot> what graphics library are you using
<dermot> or is it ascii
<JonnieCache> does it currently have the facility to play sounds?
<apeiros_> dermot: right now it's ascii based, as I want to have mechanics down first
<apeiros_> then I want to use to gosu
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<apeiros_> JonnieCache: not yet. game mechanics & story have priority. but if I have contributors, that can be changed
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<JonnieCache> apeiros_: do you develop on linux?
<apeiros_> JonnieCache: osx
<hoelzro> apeiros_: CT++
<JonnieCache> tbh i shouldnt really say im going to contribute anything right now because i have approx zero spare time
<dermot> LunIx
<JonnieCache> but i like the project
<apeiros_> hoelzro: :) yeah, still one of my all-time favorites
<dstywho> it's awesome
<dermot> i haven't had the chance to play any games for like 2 weeks unfortunately
<JonnieCache> i might try adding some sound effects though if i get bored of doing music in my small amount of free time
<dermot> JonnieCache: why do you have no freetime
<apeiros_> JonnieCache: ok, cool, I'll get back at you :)
<JonnieCache> dermot: combination of new job and hungover freelance work from before
<JonnieCache> and family stuff
<apeiros_> JonnieCache: I think sketching out a basic UI can be done independently of the rest of the game
<JonnieCache> tbh im not that rushed at all but by my lazy standards i am very busy
<apeiros_> i.e., a GUI can be developed while others work on the mechanics and still use the ascii based UI
<hoelzro> apeiros_: what's your approach going to be for teaching Ruby with the game?
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<apeiros_> hoelzro: oh, that aspect has gone
<hoelzro> oh, really? =(
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<hoelzro> I always thought that would be *really* cool
<apeiros_> but if somebody wants to learn ruby while contributing, I'll sure do
<JonnieCache> apeiros_: ascii > opengl tbh
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<JonnieCache> just upgrade it from ascii to unicode
<apeiros_> hoelzro: i.e. it could be a master/apprentice model. apprentice codes, master supports, corrects, improves
<Jdubs> Apeiros_ using snooby feels like cheating -_-
<hoelzro> apeiros_: but that's just with the development of the game itself, yes?
<apeiros_> Jdubs: snooby?
<apeiros_> hoelzro: yes
<hoelzro> hmm
<apeiros_> otherwise I run out of my own spare time ;-)
<hoelzro> I always that a game that teaches coding as part of the game would be really cool, but it would be hard to pull off
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<JonnieCache> people have tried that havent they? sure ive seen something like that
<hoelzro> after all, what would prevent someone from doing loop do self.attack enemies[0] end?
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<hoelzro> I guess you could have some sort of move counter in Player#attack or something
<apeiros_> :)
<apeiros_> you mean a game with in-game programming?
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<hoelzro> yes
<apeiros_> hoelzro: rrobots
<apeiros_> rubywarrior
<apeiros_> to some extent, roborally
<apeiros_> but yeah, they don't really *teach* programming
<apeiros_> and yeah, teaching is hard to pull off; writing a game which allows programming is hard to pull off; the combination is probably superhard :-/
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<hoelzro> indeed
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<apeiros_> dermot: hm, now that I have a contributor, I guess I have to figure out, what you could do :)
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<apeiros_> dermot: you could implement the Shop scene & screen
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<apeiros_> #rubyrpg for those interested
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<JonnieCache> every rpg needs gold
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<apeiros_> JonnieCache: hm? yes… or some other kind of money…
<apeiros_> rupees
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<JonnieCache> yeah make up an esoteric one
<JonnieCache> but in general loot is the most important thing after combat
<apeiros_> yes
<apeiros_> items, money, experience
<apeiros_> I should add a rough roadmap…
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<Jdubs> apeiros: a reddit api library
<apeiros_> Jdubs: hm?
<Jdubs> apeiros_: snooby
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<apeiros_> Jdubs: ah, you're using a reddit library named snooby, and that feels like cheating?
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<Jdubs> apeiros_ yeah
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<apeiros_> hm, assessing and using external libraries is a skill which should not be underestimated
<Jdubs> i can fit my bot code on about 5 lines if i want to compress it
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<JonnieCache> if programming feels like cheating, that means youre doing it right :)
<apeiros_> but I guess you'll learn about that soon enough
<Jdubs> i just feel like i didnt really program anything lol
<Jdubs> all the work was done for me
<apeiros_> that's the point of libraries.
<apeiros_> don't worry, there's enough things where you have lots and lots to do on your own
<dermot> redis owns
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<Jdubs> dermot: redis?
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<dermot> oh you said reddit
<dermot> oops
<Jdubs> dermot: what is redis
<JonnieCache> a datastore
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<JonnieCache> made of awesome
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<ner0x> gem cleanup removed json... Rails clearly needs that.. why did it do that?
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<ner0x> And it's attempting to uninstall rake as well.
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<ner0x> Oh.. looks like it's an older version...
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<Jdubs> ner0x: did everything work out?
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<Virunga> Does anyone know the guard-rspec gem? I'd like to now if after i started Guard, pressing enter should run only the modified/new/failed tests?
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<JonnieCache> Virunga: it runs all of them i think
<Sou|cutter> Virunga: I think it runs them all...
<JonnieCache> but you can configure it
<JonnieCache> in the new version of guard (out very recently) it uses pry for the bit you interact with
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<JonnieCache> so you can type all sorts of commands into it. have a look at the docs
<Virunga> I already configure (i copied another configuration file) it but when i press enter runs all the tests.
<Virunga> I will
<Virunga> configured*
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<Virunga> Thank you
<ner0x> Jdubs: Not so bad. Trying to figure out rails and why console seems to be broken.
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<Virunga> Do you use Spork to speed up your tests?
<Virunga> Do you use something else?
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<Virunga> I don't like the name :D Means dirty in my lang.
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<JonnieCache> Virunga: this is the same but requires less config https://github.com/jstorimer/spin
<JonnieCache> and is generally less crazy
<Virunga> Awesome.
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<Virunga> Thanks man.
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<ner0x> Dependency problem with the dependency installed.
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<ner0x> Help?
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<havenn> ner0x: Help with what?
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<ner0x> I pasted above showing my error. https://gist.github.com/4073595
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<ner0x> Ah, you weren't in the channel.
<ner0x> Odd dependency problem.
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<ner0x> Trying to follow the RoR tutorial and rails console breaks with that.
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<dankest> If I'm using execute(heredoc_var) to run some sql, how can I get the result? I was thinking something along the lines of execute(heredoc_var).result
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<apeiros_> dankest: that'd depend on execute
<dankest> apeiros_: Could you be mroe specific?
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<apeiros_> dankest: only if you are
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<dankest> Uh
<apeiros_> maybe you're unaware, but "execute" alone doesn't tell nothing.
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<dankest> Word. Let me make a gist
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<dankest> Here's essentially what I'm trying to do: https://gist.github.com/19fd6cd515949f3e0dca
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<apeiros_> dankest: well… and you get execute from where?
<apeiros_> what library? gem? Class? Module?
<dankest> apeiros_: Oh, it must be Rails
<matti> ddd: ? ;]
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<ddd> ?
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<dankest> apeiros_: Yes, sorry for the ambiguity. Still figuring a lot of this out.
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<apeiros_> iirc, execute is not meant to be used for selects
<apeiros_> dankest: but you better ask in #rubyonrails then
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<dankest> apeiros_: ok, thanks for your help.
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<enroxorz-work> Hey Guys, got a Ruby on Windows issue. I get this error (with about 500 lines of output before that gets cut off at 300). How do I get the full stack? It's crashing on me and the dump files are giving me nothing. http://pastebin.com/bMYQ6azR
<ddd> really its the first couple lines that matter not the ENTIRE stack
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<enroxorz-work> ok, let me rephrase. CLI outputs all 500, but only shows 300-500
<enroxorz-work> 1-299 are cut off because windows hates to have a buffer over 200
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<ddd> err? I've had 5000 line buffers on windows and didn't suffer.
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<enroxorz-work> well, i guess io changed the command history buffer size. how do i change the buffer size for stdout?
<ddd> anyways, you can trap the errors and general output doing yourapp > logfile.txt 2>&1 if you don't need to do anything at the terminal
<enroxorz-work> ok
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<ddd> or change it to >> logfile.txt if oyu want to append
<ddd> err you
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<ner0x> ddd: `require': cannot load such file -- readline (LoadError) Thoughts?
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<enroxorz-work> ddd that didnt work. it still output in teh command window instead of the text file
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<ddd> means oyu didnt install a lot of the requirements. especially readline and it didn't build against that library
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<ddd> you didn't fulfill what would have been in rvm requirements. rbenv and rbfu all need the same headers and libs installed as we tell you
<ddd> we just give you the commands for your specific platform to install them, they dont
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<ddd> enroxorz-work: weird that should have worked. running it from the commandline shoudl redirect it. windows shell usually honors the 2>&1 part (which redirects stdout and stderr to the logfile via the > )
<Trioke> Is "string".eql? "string" preferred over == in Ruby, generally speaking?
<enroxorz-work> ddd: yeah, the file was blank and all the output went straight to the command window
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<ner0x> ddd: Ah, this is a different box.
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<ner0x> ddd: I completely forgot about that. Broken ruby.
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<ddd> enroxorz-work: then your shell isn't respecting the redirects. I don't use windows so I can't tell you what shell to use.
<ddd> you could install cygwin which i *know* does, but i couldn't tell you anything else to use
<ddd> I'm 100% a unix boy
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<enroxorz-work> same here, but this job is a MS shop and its a pain in the arse
<ddd> hehe
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<ddd> see if Powershell respects it
<ddd> could be a change to the cmd emulator
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<ner0x> ddd: How can I get the requirements from rvm without intalling it?
<ddd> ner0x: i think its listed on rvm.io
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<ner0x> ddd: I've seen the program names, not the ubuntu package names though. I'm looking again now.
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<ddd> see we look at the platform on install and then determine the packages needed
<ddd> yeah i think the list is actually in scripts/requirements or scripts/rvm/requirements
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<ner0x> ddd: Yeah, I just installed it without putting it in the path so I can get the list.
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<ner0x> ddd: I was missing a ton... lol
<ddd> oh yeah! I knew you would be. the others don't tell you what specific required additional headers and libs you need. its assumed you'll figure that out
<ddd> rvm may be 'heavier' but thats because we add so many extra features, like the logic to determine what platform you're on and outputting specific platform information
<enroxorz-work> ddd: i figured it out. ruby test.rb > all.log 2>&1
<ddd> thats one
<enroxorz-work> all output into file
<ddd> enroxorz-work: rockin!
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<ddd> but thats exactly what i gave you
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<ner0x> ddd: No, you're absolutely right. I completely forgot, I set that up on my workstation, I'm on my laptop now.
<ddd> yourapp > logfile.txt 2>&1
<enroxorz-work> you know, i should learn how to read
<enroxorz-work> i are butthole
<ddd> i was assuming only that you were running it as a script
<ddd> so didn't include the ruby binary :)
<ddd> hehe
<ddd> ner0x: rockin
<enroxorz-work> lol
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<ner0x> ddd: I should be good to go after it's done installing.
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<ddd> yeah just rebuild your ruby and any gems you already have installed so they pick up the new libraries and headers to get that support
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<KevinSjoberg> I'm looking for a partner to do some interesting project with. Maybe a gem or something else, just for the sake of learning and improving as an individual. Anyone interested?
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<pskosinski> Hello. I am getting mtime of a file, then getting mtime again and comparing. Sometimes it fails and returns error: comparison of Time with 1352918920 failed
<pskosinski> Any idea why?
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<pskosinski> Exactly same code fail only sometimes
<pskosinski> fails *
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<ner0x> Anyone using rbenv. What does rbenv rehash actually do?
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<pskosinski> Exactly I have a.to_i and b.to_i, looks like sometimes to_i doesn't work. -.-
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<enroxorz-work> Now I have a proper stacktrace. OK. For the real question. For some odd reason, one of the sections of my site keeps forcing the whole app to crash. Here is the stacktrace. All I can see is that event machine doesnt like it but beyond that I have no fraking idea what is wrong. Can anyone look at this and see if I am missing something? http://pastebin.com/Dcd1BQzS
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<ddd> ner0x: it rebuilds all the shim binaries that rbenv uses when you install a new ruby
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<KevinSjoberg> ner0x: rbenv rehash make sure that you have the expected bins in your PATH.
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<ddd> see https://github.com/sstephenson/rbenv#readme and read section 3.6
<pskosinski> Oh, sh, stupid mistake, nvm…
<davidcelis> ner0x: e.g. if you have one version of bundler installed on ruby 1.9.3 and a different version installed for jruby 1.7, rehash will make sure that your bundler executable links up to the correct version of bundler when you switch rubies
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<ner0x> So you only have to do it when you install a new ruby? Or when you switch ruby's as well?
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<davidcelis> i don't typically need to rehash when i switch rubies
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<vectorshelve> I am writing an atoi method .. this is the issue I am facing https://gist.github.com/4074104
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<apeiros_> vectorshelve: should also include expected value
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<apeiros_> oh, crossposter…
<apeiros_> (vectorshelve, that is)
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<vectorshelve> apeiros_: why is a.atoi("jdmkjsdvbkjvb") giving 0 ? or should it really be giving me 0 only since in ruby ("jdmkjsdvbkjvb").to_i would also return 0 :)
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<davidcelis> what the fuck
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<apeiros_> vectorshelve: I don't help crossposters.
<vectorshelve> apeiros_: :)
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<havenn> vectorshelve: atoi in ruby: https://gist.github.com/3781317
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<apeiros_> havenn: if ! --> unless
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<vectorshelve> apeiros_: havenn these methods need to be crushed and made simpler and lines of code should be made lesser as possible https://gist.github.com/4074104
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<vectorshelve> apeiros_: havenn any ideas ??
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<jekotia> Found this .htaccess file in pretty much every directory under my user on my web host. I don't suppose anyone is familiar with these specific file contents and knows of how it may have gotten around? -> http://www.binaryheartbeat.net/htaccess
<jekotia> The rewrite rule goes to a known malicious website, avast blocks it :/
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<H1gh> what is wrong there?
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<H1gh> why i receive that error
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<shevy> something is nil there
<shevy> check where
<c_melder> is there a way to pass multiple variables through a raise? e.g. in rails i want to raise an error message and http status
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<apeiros_> c_melder: create a custom exception class
<apeiros_> and raise that
<louism2__> Hey everyone, I am seeing some syntax that I don't quite understand. What does the "EOT" mean in this case: instance_eval << EOT
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<apeiros_> remember to inherit from StandardError or lower, NOT from Exception.
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<apeiros_> louism2__: I think you didn't paste the code as it was.
<H1gh> apeiros_
<H1gh> that's the right code
<H1gh> i was talking before
<H1gh> about the 'open' error
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<apeiros_> louism2__: like that it'd be the method << called on the result of instance_eval with the constant EOT as argument. but you're probably looking at a here-doc
<havenn> This is how I'd format the Ruby Atoi (using Refinements, just *cause*): https://gist.github.com/4074172
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<lectrick> apeiros_: do you have a quick blurb why we should inherit from StandardError and not above?
<apeiros_> havenn: how can self not be a String there? :)
<louism2__> apeiros: I am seeing it here: http://www.devalot.com/articles/2008/09/ruby-singleton under the "Evaluating Code in the Context of an Object"
<havenn> apeiros_: >.>
<apeiros_> lectrick: because a) rescue defaults to StandardError and b) you should not rescue Exception
<apeiros_> b is because things like NoMemoryError etc. inherit from Exception
<vectorshelve> havenn: what is refine ?
<lectrick> apeiros_: interesting. i've def seen people create custom exception classes inheriting from Exception :O
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<lectrick> I may have even done so :O
<apeiros_> louism2__: << EOT is not the same as <<EOT
<apeiros_> louism2__: and that'd indeed be a heredoc
<lectrick> not rescuing from Exception makes sense
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<apeiros_> (that term is very googleable)
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<apeiros_> lectrick: yes, that's a big no-no and bug-report worthy.
<havenn> vectorshelve: Kinda like namespaced monkeypatching - a classbox without local rebinding - good article on refinements!: http://timelessrepo.com/refinements-in-ruby
<apeiros_> lectrick: I also like including a module identifying my library into my exception classes
<apeiros_> that way I can rescue that module if I want to rescue all exceptions from a specific lib
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<apeiros_> without disturbing inheritance
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<havenn> I must need more coffee. I'm sloppier than usual today...
<apeiros_> e.g. class InvalidPort < ArgumentError; include MyHttpServer::Exception; end --> rescue MyHttpServer::Exception
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<lectrick> apeiros_: good idea
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<josemota> hey guys, has anyone tried to have an admin namespace in a GLI app? silly context but I'm trying to have a pre block for a subcommand and it's not that straightforward.
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<apeiros_> Gommand Line Interface? o0
<josemota> davetron5000/gli
<Iszak> yeah what is GLI?
<Iszak> Graphic Line Interface?
<josemota> command line application development
<josemota> something like thor, but on steroids
<wwalker> I like gli better than thor, but haven't written any gli in a long while
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<josemota> wwalker: i'm enjoying it too. it's actually pretty good, regarding structure, conventions and everything.
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<pskosinski> "PRIVMSG #{channel} :\u0001ACTION slaps\u0001" vs "PRIVMSG #{channel} :\u0001ACTION slaps#{nick}\u0001"
<pskosinski> What is difference?
<pskosinski> More connected with IRC or am I doing something wrong?
<pskosinski> Because first worsk, but when I want to insert a var between first \u0001 and second then it doesn't interpret command properly…
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<pskosinski> Ah... nvm ^^
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<darkwing_duck> I'm trying to learn more about "Tell Don't Ask" and development in general... Can someone look at https://gist.github.com/4074428 and tell me whether there's any pros/cons between the two approaches?
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<gbchaosmaster> Anyone know a good way to load a YAML file into self? (sorry if this is duplicate, my connection weirded)
<gbchaosmaster> self = YAML.load File.open(config_file_for_object)
<gbchaosmaster> Doesn't work, obviously.
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<josemota> darkwing_duck: ls
<josemota> oops sorry
<Beoran> darkwing_duck, tell don"'t ask in OOP means that you don't inspect the state of objects, but let the object decide what to do by itself
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<josemota> well for one thing, plain NullPlan doesn't directly depend on Plan
<josemota> that's good
<darkwing_duck> I thought < was "inherits from"
<Beoran> yes it is
<darkwing_duck> josemota: nevermind i see
<darkwing_duck> Wires crossed when i read "depend on"
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<josemota> yea sorry about that
<Beoran> the idea of using NullPlan is that it gives you a way to handle the sutuation where there is a plan container that has no plan
<josemota> multitasking
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<Beoran> if you'd use nil, you'd have to inspect the object before using it
<Beoran> but because you have nullplan you don't have to anymore
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<Beoran> and in ruby nullplan need not even be a child class of plan. (In say, Java it would ave to be one)
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<darkwing_duck> I'm thinking that both approaches provide the same usefulness, but I expect that one's "better" in some way. Approach 1, I don't have to define the methods I expect to be called on NullPlan (it has the same methods as the object it's stubbing)... in Approach 2, I do have to define the `description` method
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<Beoran> darkwing_duck, I think either approach could be fine. This is the "null object pattern"
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<Beoran> it's important to never use this pattern for error situations, and if you use it do so consistently
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<Beoran> doe example only mause NullAddrss if it's ok to have empty addresses for,say, a person; If that's not OK, a NullAddress will hide the error.
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<darkwing_duck> null object pattern, thanks
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<darkwing_duck> Beoran, thanks... I actually brought it into play to simplify my tests
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<Beoran> you are welcome
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<nwertman> Is there an IRC channel for test/unit or other TDD folks? I can't seem to find a decent one.
<GeekOnCoffee> there's #rspec
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<nwertman> GeekOnCoffee: That may work. Thanks
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<darkwing_duck> nwertman: you mean one where we can talk about best practices, strategies, and patterns for teaching and using TDD? no idea :)
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<metrix> I have several hundred different "things" that end users in a corporate environment need to have access to. Examples would be reports from sql server, launching of automated processes, writing data to files etc. Is there a web framework where I can plug in a given feature/business process, and an ldap group and all of a sudden I have a web application where an end user can run the process...
<metrix> ...or receive a given report?
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<bricker> Is ruby smart about double-includes? If you include two modules into a class, and both of those modules have includes for the same, third module, will that class get that third module twice?
<invisime> does anyone know of a better way to get your MAC address via ruby than just parsing the output from ifconfig? (I'm guaranteed to be on a linux machine.)
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<Beoran> bricker, require is safe for double includes, load is not
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<Beoran> also, in ruby you can monkey patch, that is, extend or alter an already existing class or module
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<havenn> invisime: But the gem just checks ifconfig...
<invisime> lol.
<benwoody> and then regexes stuff, which is what you could do stand alone
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<Beoran> invisime, IPSocket.getaddress(Socket.gethostname)
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<invisime> Beoran: what package is that from?
<Beoran> socket that's standard
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<Beoran> Socket.ip_address_list
<Beoran> looks like it may even be better, since you may have more than one IP address on Linux
<invisime> Beoran: I'm getting uninitialized constant on both IPSocket and Socket in an irb session. are you sure they're in ruby-core?
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<Beoran> require 'socket'
<Beoran> I mean, they're in the standard library, sory
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<Cluster444> does anyone know the name of the gem used for testing that messes with your source code to make sure your tests fail properly?
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<LordDoskias> recommend an easy to use GUI library for ruby
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<Beoran> LordDoskias, for what platform and what use?
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<Beoran> for games or for serious apps?
<havenn> Cluster444: Could be: heckle
<LordDoskias> i'd say for proof of concept
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<Beoran> for games there is gosu
<LordDoskias> just a simple GUI for a rest client
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<Beoran> for jruby : Swing and SWT :)
<Cluster444> havenn, thats it, thanks :)
<blazes816> love jruby +swing
<blazes816> shoes is also pretty decent I think, but haven't used it myself
<Beoran> for plain mruby , too many
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<havenn> LordDoskias: How about Tk?
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<havenn> Beoran: mruby doesn't mean MRI anymore :P
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<catepillar> how does mruby handle threads?
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<catepillar> are they true threads with GIL? fake threads? threads with no GIL?
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<havenn> catepillar: No threads. In mirb: Thread.new #NameError: uninitialized constant Thread
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<havenn> MHTSWHT: Matz hates threads so we hate threads.
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<catepillar> lol
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<havenn> catepillar: mruby may not be run on an OS, so no process or thread support
<havenn> *may or may not be run on an OS*
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<catepillar> ahh, that makes a bit more sense.
<catepillar> im reading up on it now
<catepillar> designed to be embedable into other code (like c++)
<catepillar> so it makes sense that it doesn't support threads
<havenn> catepillar: Or LUA replacement. All our robots run on Ruby!
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<catepillar> my robots do too :P
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<havenn> catepillar: It is in Japanese >.> but there is a fork of mruby that supports processes and threads: https://github.com/iij/mruby
<catepillar> well if it's embedable in c++, i would rather use c++ threads :P
<catepillar> i have studied those
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<havenn> catepillar: Yeah, just depends on your use-case I suppose.
<Hanmac> havenn i have seen mruby running in an EFI shell :D
<havenn> Hanmac: :O
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<havenn> Hanmac: Wow, awesome! :)
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<Hanmac> havenn i heard about http://www.ruby-mine.de/2012/6/12/hpc-ruby this too but i dont know anything :/
<apeiros_> oh, Hanmac - got a liiiittle bit of time?
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<Hanmac> apeiros_ not currently i drunk valerian tea ... and it may start working the next moments
<d-snp> oh damn
<Paradox> Gunter glieben glauchen globen
<d-snp> give it to me baby?
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<d-snp> mruby on efi sounds very interesting
* d-snp goes in crazy research mode
<apeiros_> Hanmac: oh :( sleep well :)
<havenn> Hanmac: 255 times faster than Ruby 1.9... Must learn more!
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<havenn> Ruby > Fortran
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<havenn> Hanmac: Of course the HPC slides are... in Japanese.
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<havenn> Maybe I'll conscript my neighbor. :P
<havenn> Ooh, another Ruby Rogues podcast out today: Documenting Code
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<apeiros_> who in his right mind would document code?!?
<apeiros_> that only leads to people using your code which in turn leads to more work you have to do…
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<havenn> apeiros_: Haha. I *think* I'd love people to use my libraries. But in actuality, probably that would be a nightmare!
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<apeiros_> class Loot
<apeiros_> *yum*
<havenn> apeiros_: I'll have to avoid making anything worth using, been successful at that so far!
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<havenn> I'm working on a gem that summarizes any given website in Haiku format. I'm sure that will be a winner...
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<dstywho> i'd fork it :D
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<reactormonk> dstywho, I'd spoon it!
<havenn> I'll knife it.
<havenn> Spork anyone/
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<havenn> Ooh, sporking a repo...
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<dstywho> that's too naughty
<Beoran> havenn, looks like they mae a compiler that partially compiles ruby to C
<Beoran> for numerical functionality
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<Beoran> and you're all forknicators
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<Beoran> ;)
<reactormonk> havenn, found a spoon (⼔): KANGXI RADICAL SPOON
<Hanmac> catepillar, puting ruby into c++ is nice, putting c++ into ruby is more cool :D
<havenn> Beoran: mruby comes with three bin/ files: mirb (irb), mruby (ruby), and mrbc (compile too c).
<havenn> s/too/to
<havenn> mruby already works nicely with rbenv, rbfu, and chruby - haven't tried RVM
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<reactormonk> havenn, for speed, I'd use a statically typed language
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<Hanmac> reactormonk, if you combine ruby with an c++ lib in an binding you could get the best from both ...
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<reactormonk> Hanmac, I'd say C++ and ruby OO don't have much in common
<Hanmac> maybe but an c++ binding is still cool for ruby
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<blazes816> what's the best way to figure out how/why/where references are being leaked causing GC to not free my objects?
<t0rc> I am checking through a set to see if something exists, and if it does, I want to raise an exception and exit the method. Do I use return after the raise or ?
<blazes816> memprof looked good, but it's only for 1.8
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<blazes816> t0rc: raise Exception if my_ary.include('something')
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<sarmiena_> i want to write tests for a csv upload utility i'm creating. however, i don't want to use file fixtures for testing since there are many scenarios i want to test
<sarmiena_> is there a way to create in-memory files on the fly that CSV can parse?
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<reactormonk> sarmiena_, just create a string?
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<sarmiena_> reactormonk: my method definition takes in a filename as an argument and uses CSV#foreach.
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<sarmiena_> so i'd have to change the method signature to support testing via strings, now?
<sarmiena_> no*?
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<reactormonk> sarmiena_, you can always mktempdir
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<sarmiena_> reactormonk: your suggestion lead me to this solution: http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/tempfile/rdoc/Tempfile.html
<sarmiena_> thanks for the nudge
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<t0rc> blazes816: ah so raise does do that. thanks.
<dermot> i have such a weird problem
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<shevy> no sex?
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