apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 1.9.3-p194: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on gist.github.com || Rails is in #rubyonrails || Log: http://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby
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<disappearedng> Anyone familiar with this error? http://pastie.org/4303252
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<burgestrand> disappearedng: you don’t happen to have two versions of imagemagick on your system?
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<disappearedng> burgestrand: is there a way for me to verify?
<burgestrand> I’ve never seen that exact error before, but it looks like the errors compilers spit out when you try to define the same function multiple times in C, for example.
<burgestrand> disappearedng: *shrugs* was thinking you have it installed through macports or fink, as well as from homebrew, or something.
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<burgestrand> Not sure how you’d find out if that is the case, though. Perhaps trying to uninstall it from Homebrew and see if it still fails?
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<Maher4Ever> I'm facing a strange problem, when I compile my extention manually or with 'rake-compile' my gem works fine. When I use 'gem install' it segfaults on rb_gc_mark. I noticed that the sizes of the produced .so files are diffrent, does anyone here have something which might help? I've spent the last 2 hours working on this with no idea what's causing it
<snail> disappearedng: did you solve your problem?
<disappearedng> snail: still solving
<disappearedng> snail: l no
<snail> disappearedng: use the command 'locate MagickWand.h' to see whether you have two versions on your computer (which is the most likely problem)
<disappearedng> /usr/local/Cellar/imagemagick/6.7.7-6/include/ImageMagick/wand/MagickWand.h
<disappearedng> /usr/local/Cellar/imagemagick/6.7.7-6/share/doc/ImageMagick/www/api/MagickWand/struct__MagickWand.html
<disappearedng> is that what the conflict is ?
<snail> nop, those are two different files
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<disappearedng> snail: then what shoul dI do?
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<snail> disappearedng: the fact there are two ' -I/usr/local/Cellar/imagemagick/6.7.7-6/include/ImageMagick ' terms on the command lines is certainly suggestive, I'd be tempted to remove one of them from the makefiel
<snail> what does 'echo $PKG_CONFIG_PATH' give?
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<disappearedng> snail /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig:
<snail> disappearedng: do you see anything wrong with that?
<disappearedng> well the search should still work
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<disappearedng> snail: I dunno what is setting it though
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<snail> disappearedng: 'export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig' should reset it
<disappearedng> I did and ran gem install but there's the same error
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<aces1up> anyone know of any tools that I can use to replay an http traffic stream through something like mechanize or another http parser?
<aces1up> for automated web browser testing?
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<snail> aces1up: i believe wireshark can do those kinds of things, but i've never actually do it
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<wrapids> I've got a question about ruby's performance. My app has to receive a string from a server, run a couple regexes on it and a couple if/is nil. It then puts it to that socket. On some of them it's making a remote call to a redis server running remotely also. With about 2 strings sent a second it starts to lose some. Is this normal running speed for ruby?
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<sevenseacat> starts to lose some what?
<wrapids> Of the strings. They aren't buffered.
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<wrapids> When receiving more than 1 or 2 a second it fails to process some
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<wrapids> I'm not worried about fixing it so much as why this is happening. It's not doing anything complex with the strings for processing. The redis server is about the only thing I could think that _might_ be causing hang time. But if am _only_ receiving input and not running logic then it doesn't lose any input.
<sevenseacat> im not aware of why anything would be 'losing' input.
<wrapids> sevenseacat, ####yes
<snail> wrapids: presumably you're compiling your regexps in advance?
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<wrapids> snail, I don't follow that, I'm qutie new to this
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<snail> regexps are _very_ expensive to compile
<snail> for better performance, declare them at the module level and then refer to them
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<wrapids> snail, I'll take a look at that, as well as post my logic section, moment
<wrapids> http://pastie.org/4303655 <- the bulk of the logic being performed.
<burgestrand> Do profile your code: https://github.com/tmm1/perftools.rb
<wrapids> redis calls each have there own method
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<burgestrand> You’ll be able to see in which call the most time is spent.
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<burgestrand> (if you see garbage collection taking up ~15-30%, that’s normal)
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<wrapids> Let me get this guy moved over to my server then
<wrapids> One moment
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<burgestrand> Once you have your profile you can visualize it as a GIF with pprof, I think it was :)
<burgestrand> … or was it PDF.
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<snail> wrapids: I'm guessing that some of those may be faster using string comparison rather than regexps, to avoid having to compile the regexp every time
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<wrapids> snail, I was running into a lot of issues with nil in arrays with that. If it's the regex causing the issue I'll precompile them, if it's not I'll fix what's causing it (unless of course it's network), if precompiling the regex doesn't work I'm just going to buffer my input.
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<snail> wrapids: the regexps which contain the value of local variables can't be pre-compiled ...
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<roadt> hi, i'm learning from Yukihiro's 'user guide', testing the control structure of ruby, but i always got error when use 'retry' in loop, is this keyword obsoleted?
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<roadt> i also meet 'String. no such method for 'eacho' , when doing ' for l in "aaa" xxx end' stuff.
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<roadt> ruby 1.9.3
<roadt> any comments is appreciated. thanks in advanced.
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<Harzilein> roadt: pastebin your irb output. 'eacho' sure looks like a typo to me.
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<roadt> Harzilein, 'eacho' is typo. it is 'each'
<roadt> Harzilein, ruby user's guide give the code directly, i assume it works directly. but the result appear not. any problem in my writing?
<wrapids> Ugh, can't deal with the windows anymore
<Harzilein> roadt: so you found the retry example on a webpage? you need to add "then" or omit the newline
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<roadt> Harzilein, can you give the detail to make it right ? I do follow the guide exactly http://www.rubyist.net/~slagell/ruby/iterators.html. (which is suggested from ruby-lang.org)
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<roadt> just want to practice quickly, it looks has no ' then' in the article.
<roadt> so that means the article is obsoleted?
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<Harzilein> roadt: maybe you should not make a sport out wanting to run the 1.8 examples verbatim with 1.9
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<Harzilein> +of
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<Harzilein> roadt: there is a standard for the ruby syntax now, let's see what it says about using for..in with string literals
<roadt> Hmmm, indeed, seems i should check 1.9 changelog to dig it out.
<roadt> Harzilein, thanks for responding.
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<Azure> I asked this earlier and I don't think that I got an answer earlier, but: I have a hash with nested hashes that I use in an array, and the hashes have the same structure/keys, but with different data (of course.)
<Azure> How would I translate that to a struct?
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<TheHairyWoodsman> any recommendations on making a gem programmatically? (like entirely from scratch; I have a very simple gem I want to create as a part of a build process)
<TheHairyWoodsman> my first thought is to look if I can depend on bundle
<TheHairyWoodsman> and use it's gem create / package capabiliteis
<TheHairyWoodsman> I don't want to exec on cmdline, if I can help it
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<Harzilein> roadt: i can no longer find the draft for the standard, but i think there is a simpler explanation: even in 1.8.7, String#each has another meaning than when that document was written
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<roadt> Harzilein, hmm, that upgrade too fast..
<Harzilein> roadt: hmm?
<Harzilein> roadt: you can get a separate 1.8 installation
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<roadt> Harzilein, i mean standard..
* roadt will change the materials of learning
<Harzilein> roadt: apidock says http://apidock.com/ruby/v1_8_7_330/String/each
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<Harzilein> roadt: or rather: http://apidock.com/ruby/String says it's only in up till 1.8.7-p330
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<Harzilein> roadt: you did not enter the retry example verbatim
<Harzilein> roadt: it uses and somethingelse in the condition which seems to make it possible to unambiguously omit the then
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<roadt> Harzilein, yeah. i didn't. i tried to simplify the code.
<roadt> Harzilein, hmmm
<roadt> s/yeah/no/
<Harzilein> putting () around the condition makes it work as well
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<roadt> Harzilein, did you mean ' if (i==2) retry end' or so, i gave a shot, no luck.
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<Harzilein> roadt: pastebin the irb dialog plz
<roadt> add as comments. tkz. you guys are sticking to version 1.8, isn't it.
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<roadt> Harzilein, I found the answer. it seems retry only is valid in rescue statement in 1.9x. here http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/184694
<Harzilein> roadt: no, i don't "stick" with 1.8, it's just that some distributions have it as system ruby and it's easy to run those examples with it
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<roadt> Harzilein, you got it.
<Harzilein> roadt: so i guess the problem is what to do with this excellent text in the light of incompatible changes.
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<roadt> Harzilein, yeah..
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<Harzilein> roadt: either recommend the most stable 1.8 version and add annotations for the cases even that no longer works
<Harzilein> roadt: or add annotations for even further versions
<Harzilein> roadt: i think the first option would be more sane, that'd be more like an errata than some perpetually changing document
<Harzilein> s/most stable/most recent/
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<captainbaordog> test
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<disappearedng> does IRB have a method to expose the RI documentation of a method?
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<drupin> hello all
<drupin> while doing make for ruby
<drupin> https://gist.github.com/3162036 not able to install psych under cygwin
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<Mon_Ouie> disappearedng: No, but you could use this https://github.com/Mon-Ouie/dotfiles/blob/master/irbrc.rb#L198
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<Mon_Ouie> Or try Pry, which does have commands for that kind of stuff
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<disappearedng> Pry is pretty amazing fyi
<justin_> is there a provision for global variables in sinatra??
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<Banistergalaxy> disappearedng: use show-doc and show-source
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<justin_> i have a thread running in one get block, and in another i need to join it and get the output
<justin_> and thread returns user specific information
<justin_> whats the best way to do it??
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<_bart> I have a lot of trouble doing .downcase on strings with weird encodings/entities
<hoelzro> _bart: because downcasing is tricky with Unicode
<_bart> but basically I'm always doing that to .include? / find a string in another string, and I know I could also use .grep (/something/i)
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<_bart> so basically that'd be smarter right, I'm bypassing the downcase by using /i on the regexp
<hoelzro> that makes sense to me
<_bart> cool
<_bart> I'll stick to that then
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<_bart> are class variables with attr_accessor thread-safe?
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<hoelzro> I'm guessing that depends on your environment
<hoelzro> iirc, Ruby only allows a single thread of Ruby code to run at a time
<hoelzro> s/Ruby/MRI Ruby/
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<Hanmac> ... class variables & attr_accessor do not work :P
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<justin_> any idea how to make a thread accessible across blocks in sinatra??
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<_bart> hmm
<bnagy> dunno about sinatra, but blocks can see locals from their binding
<_bart> undefined method grep for :String :s
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<Hanmac> (depends how the block is called)
<bnagy> so t=Thread.new {sleep 1}; foo.each {|e| # I can see t}
<bnagy> _bart: grep is on Array
<_bart> ah include also allows regexp then right?
<_bart> as in include?
<bnagy> don't think so
<bnagy> normally you'd just use =~ if you want a boolean result
<bnagy> otherwise .match or str[/something/]
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<_bart> ah str[/something/] is cool, thanks
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<hoelzro> that syntax bothers me =/
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<shevy> hehe
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<_bart> hoelzro: I wonder how to prevent special characters in the something var coming to play with the regexp
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<Hanmac> _bart: what do you mean currectly?
<_bart> str[/something/]
<_bart> or rather str[/#{something}/]
<_bart> and let's say that something is a title, and str a big string, and you're looking for a specific title. But what it the title includes characters like "." and ? and ^?
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<hoelzro> does Ruby support something like \Q/\E like Perl does?
<hoelzro> that would be my answer =)
<Hanmac> Regexp.quote(".?+")
<workmad3> there's also Regexp.escape
<Hanmac> ri says that both are the same
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<brg> hi, i really want to know is there any concept of "pass by value" in ruby
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<Hanmac> brg, ruby does not have any pass-by-value / pass-by-reference, like you maybe know ... its mostly an reference-to-object ...
<banisterfiend> Hanmac: ruby uses pass by value, but what is passed are references ;)
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<Hanmac> so Numbers like 1,2,3 or 4.5 are "passed by value", but others like Arrays are "passed by reference"
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<workmad3> banisterfiend: or, as I like to think of it, 'pass-by-pointer-value' :)
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<sgronblom> Is Marshal.dump/load really the cleanest way to make a deep clone of a Hash?
<Hanmac> sgronblom yeah i think its the cleanest way
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<drupin> Hanmac: https://gist.github.com/3162927 on cygwin ... complied a new postgresql and installed
<drupin> gave that above erroe
<sgronblom> Hanmac: yeah its not extremely dirty but feels like it could be implemented in the language somehow
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<_bart> what is the getter of kind_of?
<_bart> .type?
<Hanmac> .class normaly ... but kind_of? can more
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<banisterfiend> sgronblom: iirc objc does deep copies the same way
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* Hanmac wishs that he could deep copy procs too
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<sgronblom> banisterfiend: but doesn't that mean for these non-lazy languages that if you have a huge object you'll first have to serialized that to a string in memory and then parse that string to get the deep clone?
<banisterfiend> sgronblom: im not sure of the exact mechanism, but it's clearly not too slow as it's very common and i haven't seen any complaints
<banisterfiend> but i never researched it thoroughly
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<sgronblom> Yeah I'm sure for most cases it's not a problem
<workmad3> sgronblom: deep cloning a huge object can be problematic no matter what language
<sgronblom> workmad3: yeah but if you built the clone directly from the original at least you won't have to store a string in memory temporarily
<workmad3> sgronblom: in fact, it's pretty much a language-independent problem, frequently solved by doing copy-on-write strategies rather than doing a full depp clone
<workmad3> *deep
<sgronblom> johnny depp
<workmad3> depp clones...
<Hanmac> xD
<workmad3> scary thought :P
<workmad3> would probably make Tim Burton happy though :)
<Hanmac> wasnt there depp clones in the third movie?
<sgronblom> maybe itll be the plot of a pirates of the carribean movie eventually?
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<workmad3> sgronblom: anyway... in answer to your question, if you have requirements to deep clone a large object where serializing and deserializing in bulk would be problematic, you're probably looking at your own strategy to cloning
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<workmad3> and Hanmac: deep copy procs? sounds fun... and hazardous :P
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<Hanmac> workmad3 i wish there when a proc dont need an binding like {|x| x * 3} it should be somehow dumpable ...
<sgronblom> workmad3: fortunately i don't. i was just considering the potential probles of serializing for deep cloning
<Hanmac> its possible with eval, but i dont like it :(
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<workmad3> Hanmac: I believe you can in rubinius
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<workmad3> Hanmac: hell, I think you can serialize a proc with a binding in rubinius, because the bindings themselves are serializable
<workmad3> Hanmac: wycats did a blog post about it a while ago: http://yehudakatz.com/2011/11/19/how-to-marshal-procs-using-rubinius/ :)
<banisterfiend> workmad3: you can in maglev
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<banjara> I want to create an http request with ruby to a long running external service which times out because of the amazon ELB timeout of 60 secs (which is not configurable). What are the defacto ways to handle this in ruby?
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<apeiros_> banjara: you mean the server end times out? you can't configure that from the client…
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<banjara> apieros : yeah the ELB kills the request
<apeiros_> apeiros, not apieros, use tab completion
<apeiros_> I don't see how you could do anything about the server side timing out…
<banjara> some sort of long polling to keep the request alive?
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<apeiros_> that's not how http works
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<workmad3> banjara: long-polling is just having an open request... if something in the middle times out a long-running request, long-polling doesn't work
<apeiros_> the server timing out is a server side issue. nothing you could do about it.
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<apeiros_> unless of course you own the server side code… but from how you ask, it doesn't sound like it…
<banjara> yes I do own the server side too
<apeiros_> then fix the issue on the server side
<workmad3> banjara: if a request times out, the only thing you can do in HTTP is just make the request again
<apeiros_> a) return a token, process in the background, let the client poll for the status of the token
<workmad3> ^^
<drupin> Hanmac: https://gist.github.com/3162927 ... complied a new postgresql and installed wont let it install
<apeiros_> b) stream nonsense (worse than the token solution)
<apeiros_> c) use websockets and push
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<workmad3> apeiros_: nothing wrong with the token solution... from a HTTP perspective, you create a long-running task as a resource, it gets assigned a URL, and you can GET that URL to get the resource representation (which corresponds to the current status of the long-running task)
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<xea> hi
<workmad3> apeiros_: it's just not as shiny as using websockets :)
<apeiros_> workmad3: I didn't say something was wrong
<Hanmac> drupin i cant help with windows problems but it seems that the newer pg is not founded
<apeiros_> all I did was provide 3 options
<apeiros_> my order of preference is a > c > b
<workmad3> apeiros_: you said option b was worse than the token solution... which I interpreted as implying token was bad :)
* Hanmac is know known as "windows-free"
<drupin> Hanmac: i am on cygwin now i need to ask i gess pg people
<Hanmac> maybe yeah
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<workmad3> drupin: wow, you've actually managed to get cygwin setup...
<JonnieCache> why would you run postgres in cygwin?
<JonnieCache> dont mean to be rude...
<masak> could attributes in Ruby be said to be private by default? and then you add accessors. is that a fair picture?
<apeiros_> if websockets were more mature, I'd probably prefer c > a > b
<drupin> workmad3: yes
<JonnieCache> masak: exactly right
<masak> \o/
<drupin> JonnieCache: testing
<banjara> apeiros_ : thanks, will try option a
<masak> I'm writing up a set of articles on object systems, and I want to make sure I get things right.
<drupin> i am on windows so cugwin jonathanwallace
<JonnieCache> in fact they are always private. adding public methods to interact with them doesnt change that
<masak> right.
<drupin> i am on windows so cygwin JonnieCache
<Hanmac> masak you could define the accessor methods private and protected too if you want
<workmad3> well, they're as private as anything gets in ruby :)
<masak> the attributes are always private. accessors can be private/protected/public by need.
<JonnieCache> drupin: setting up a headless vm to do your testing is probably going to save you a lot of headaches
<workmad3> drupin: that doesn't mean you have to compile and install postgres with cygwin
<masak> workmad3: that's the problem with introspection/reflection. it is fundamentally incompatible with encapsulation :)
<workmad3> drupin: you could just install one of the precompiled distributions (in fact, I'd probably recommend that)
<JonnieCache> masak: yes. but as always in ruby you can ignore all that with the instance_variable_get method whioch all objects have
<masak> right.
<JonnieCache> but you really shouldnt do it
<masak> well, such an escape hatch is important.
<workmad3> masak: hardly... it's not incompatible with encapsulation... but it is incompatible with information hiding
<masak> for things like object initialization and serialization.
<drupin> workmad3: its not accepted by bundle in ruby
<masak> workmad3: I've never made the distinction between those two. I know that some people do. why do you consider the distinction important?
<workmad3> masak: because they're different concepts
<masak> not according to some.
<drupin> JonnieCache: VM hmmm .. its gonna take lot of my time now
<workmad3> masak: you can hide information without encapsulating it, and you can encapsulate behaviour without hiding the information pertaining to it
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<JonnieCache> encapsulation is for behaviour and the "role" of a class within the system, information hiding is for, well, information.
* masak processes this
<workmad3> masak: encapsulation is more about grouping behaviours and data together and making it so you don't *need* to know the information inside... information hiding is about actually preventing access to the information
<masak> JonnieCache: oh.
<JonnieCache> they go hand in hand i guess
<masak> I see what you're saying. I will use the terms that way from now on.
<masak> I had read http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EncapsulationIsNotInformationHiding previously and come away thinking that the difference is either nonexistent or very slight and unimportant.
<masak> but I see what you're saying.
<masak> thank you. :)
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<masak> so what Perl does is definitely encapsulation, then? even if it does zero information hiding (with blessed hashes)?
<workmad3> masak: quite possibly... I don't know much about blessed hashes in perl, I'm afraid
<masak> hm, Wikipedia seems to define encapsulation as *both* your definiton and information hiding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encapsulation_(object-oriented_programming)
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<masak> workmad3: well, a blessed hash in Perl is basically saying "hey, this normal hash is now associated with that package name over there. method calls on it dispatch to functions in the package name"
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<workmad3> masak: hmm... not sure if it's really correct to talk about that in terms of encapsulation or information hiding then
<workmad3> masak: that seems more about binding to me
* Hanmac hides information under a stone
<masak> well, you talked about "bundling" data and behavior above, so I thought that's what you meant.
<masak> or "grouping" behaviors and data together.
<workmad3> masak: and there's a lot of conflation of encapsulation and information hiding in literature, and by extension in the programming community
<masak> aye.
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<masak> I knew that already.
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<JonnieCache> i imagine thats because in practice you always use both the concepts together
<workmad3> masak: so crowdsourced wikis... not necessarily the best place to find a canonical definition ;)
<masak> can encapsulation be said to be about preserving the integrity of data by different means, of which information hiding may be one?
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<masak> workmad3: well, I'm glad I'm not less confused than Wikipedia, is all. :) I didn't mean to use it as an authoritative source.
<workmad3> masak: I wouldn't say that... I'd say that the c2 wiki's first entry is pretty good - 'Encapsulation is about boundaries'
<masak> s/less/more/
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<masak> ok, what sort of boundaries. if it's not about data access.
<apeiros_> I'd say encapsulation goes well along with the idea of SRP
<apeiros_> i.e., the boundary in OOP will usually be that single responsibility of your class
<workmad3> masak: any sort of boundary...
<workmad3> masak: it can be a data boundary, a behaviour boundary, both, neither...
<workmad3> masak: objects, modules, files... they all perform different aspects of encapsulation
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<masak> ok, let's try this, then. encapsulation == "establishing an inner/outer boundary". information hiding == "preventing data from leaking out of such a boundary".
<masak> does that sound sane?
<workmad3> masak: I'd say preventing *information* from leaking out personally ;)
<masak> can you have information hiding without encapsulation of some sort? encapsulation feels very general to me.
<workmad3> masak: otherwise it would be data hiding
<masak> ok :)
<masak> we'll talk about the difference between data and information tomorrow :P
<masak> but with s/data/information/, do the definitions hold up according to you?
<masak> because I think I could work with those.
<workmad3> masak: at a glance, I'd probably agree
<masak> \o/
<masak> thank you for helping clear that up in my head.
<workmad3> masak: given some time to think about it, no doubt I could argue it some more... but I don't have the time ;)
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<masak> ;)
<masak> again, thanks.
<workmad3> np, have fun with your articles :)
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<workmad3> masak: and, as a precursor to discussion about information and data... here's some reading material ;) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Decoding-Reality-Universe-Quantum-Information/dp/0199237697
<masak> yay
<masak> can I just say that this seems to be a great channel. I feel very welcome here.
<masak> usually I homestead in #perl6, which has high standards for niceness and S/N ratio.
<workmad3> yeah, we're awesome here :)
<masak> :D
<workmad3> well, apart from JonnieCache... :P
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<masak> 哈哈
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<chiel> workmad3: I got unicorn running last friday btw. I was being a retard. :D
<workmad3> chiel: hah :) it happens... frequently on a friday too ;)
<chiel> workmad3: yeah, happens a little more often than I'd like to admit, but oh well. :D
<chiel> it wouldn't have been so bad if my code would just be slightly more verbose when it comes to checking requirements. :D
<JonnieCache> :(
* chiel soothes JonnieCache.
<chiel> It's okay, I like you just for your name.
<JonnieCache> look man dont knock my already fragile self esteem
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<JonnieCache> if i commit messy suicide im having my family send the drycleaning bill to you
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<chiel> I mean it! :(
* chiel cries in a corner.
<workmad3> JonnieCache: fair enough... I won't pay it, but I'll certainly laugh :P
<chiel> I wonder if there's any ruby gigs in London where I don't have to do rails. :p
<JonnieCache> you might get one doing sinatra :)
<workmad3> or chef, if you're into devops
<chiel> yeah I like sinatra
<chiel> I like devops, but I've only used puppet sadly
<workmad3> well, that too
<chiel> I want to get into chef though, seems more ruby-ish
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<workmad3> only in the sense that it doesn't introduce an external DSL for basic config (aiui, puppet has an external dsl for defining nodes and resources, but you frequently need to drop to ruby and an internal API to create new resources if you want to do smarter stuff)
<workmad3> while in chef, it's all ruby
<kalleth> workmad3: :D
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<JonnieCache> always struck me as mad that puppet has its own configuration language
<JonnieCache> youre already in ruby! famously the language of DSL heaven
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<workmad3> well, it does mean they get to alter certain aspects
<workmad3> I think the puppet dependency resolution is quite different from chef, for example
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<chiel> I think puppet is interesting, but it can be a bit of a mindfuck at times
<JonnieCache> moreso than chef?
<chiel> no idea about chef
<chiel> I imagine it has it's own quirks :D
<JonnieCache> i think devops at that level is always a mindfuck. so many moving parts
<workmad3> and from what I know of it, I'm not sure their style could be easily supported if arbitrary ruby could be used in resource configuration
<chiel> but still it's gonna be better than some arbitrary shell script executing
<JonnieCache> oh yeah
<workmad3> and yeah... there's a certain amount that devops is just inherently a mindfuck :)
<chiel> I've been trying to pitch the idea of using vagrant at work, for faster setups
<JonnieCache> that is far beyond a mindfuck. chef reduces it back down to a level where you can actually comprehend it without going mad
<JonnieCache> just usaing scripts i mean
<chiel> at the moment we have to completely mutilate our OS X installs just to run the software..
<chiel> (fucking java... :D)
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<chiel> I guess I just need to do a chef tutorial, see what it's all about
<JonnieCache> what do you have to do to it?
<JonnieCache> install a whole custom java stack?
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<workmad3> chiel: if you're already familiar with puppet, I'd suggest you'd probably get a lot more out of just reading the architecture stuff on the opscode wiki ;)
<workmad3> chiel: in particular, this one: http://wiki.opscode.com/display/chef/Anatomy+of+a+Chef+Run
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<chiel> workmad3: I only know puppet on a very shallow level though
<workmad3> chiel: :)
<workmad3> chiel: ok, maybe start here then: http://wiki.opscode.com/display/chef/Chef+Basics
<chiel> JonnieCache: well, have to disable the apache that comes with OS X, and then install tomcat and lots more stuff
<chiel> it's a nightmare
<chiel> I want to automate it so it's just `vagrant up`, and boom, it works.
<chiel> workmad3: :D
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<chiel> I heard chef is not all that great if you don't have a chef server, though
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<workmad3> you lose a lot of the advanced features, yes
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<chiel> I guess the question is which features you need
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<chiel> I just want to try chef solo or so to begin with
<workmad3> most of the advanced chef stuff is based off the search capabalities, which are all chef-server based
<chiel> hmm yeah
<workmad3> I think you also lose a lot of the environment and versioning capabilities in recipies
<chiel> opscode has a pretty good repo with cookbooks already though, as far as I could tell
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<workmad3> *recipes
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<Hanmac> i like the language Piet :P
<workmad3> yeah, a lot of those cookbooks build off chef server searches though
<JonnieCache> thats the problem with chef, everythings geared around the server, and the server is just another bloody thing to manage
<JonnieCache> so if you dont have many servers to start with, its not worth it
<JonnieCache> im convinced this is to make their hosted offering more attractive
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<workmad3> JonnieCache: well, except that opscode give you a hosted chef server that can manage up to 5 nodes for free
<workmad3> JonnieCache: and also, you can use the chef server to manage the chef server ;)
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<workmad3> but yes, it is extra overhead
<JonnieCache> i wouldnt put anything important on that a free service like that.
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<chiel> I think devops is such a weird thing to get into though
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<JonnieCache> yeah its a great service, its just that the job im in now, falls through the cracks whereby its not appropriate
<chiel> I mean, I really enjoy it, but I don't have enough experience to do it on a professional level, I think.
<JonnieCache> the new place has VMs for everything and a whole fancy system set up. im looking forward to it :)
<workmad3> JonnieCache: sounds funky :)
<workmad3> chiel: it's still a very new field
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<chiel> yeah, that's true
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<chiel> anyway, off for lunch, see you guys later.
<workmad3> chiel: enjoy :)
<chiel> thank you sir
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<workmad3> chiel: as a note for after lunch... hanging out in #chef can be very informative ;)
<_bart> it's not possible to use resque (from defunct) with only ruby?
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<JonnieCache> _bart: how do you mean, only ruby?
<JonnieCache> its not a rails thing. it is build on redis though
<_bart> it uses rake?
<_bart> oh
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<JonnieCache> rake isnt a rails thing either
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<_bart> JonnieCache: this might be a stupid question but right now I added gem 'rake' to the Gemfile, but what should I put in the rakefile?
<JonnieCache> i dont know. whatever you want?
<JonnieCache> what are you trying to achieve?
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<_bart> I want to use resque with ruby only. I already have the gem installed and the class ready, but to setup resque they do Rake commands.
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<_bart> so I added task "resque:setup" => :environment to a new Rakefile
<_bart> but it's still saying: Don't know how to build task 'resque:workers'
<apeiros_> resque is a namespace, not part of the task name
<apeiros_> e.g. namespace :resque do task :setup => :environment do … end end
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<_bart> got it working by doing require "resque/tasks" in the Rakefile
<_bart> I think
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<_bart> apeiros_: got it almost working, but now I get #<NameError: uninitialized constant Scraper>. My class is probably not loaded in resque, how do I fix that?
<apeiros_> you require it?
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<_bart> apeiros_: where? I've already required it at the place where I enqueue it
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<fowl> RUBAH
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<Hanmac> that was big :P it netsplitted from >600 to ~30 users :P
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: you've just been on the wrong side of the split :-p
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<JonnieCache> posted in the arduino channel. the guy doesnt seem to want to explain himself
<JonnieCache> i think it could be a death ray
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<fowl> doesnt want to explain himself, lol
<masak> sorry, I think I confused myself again. is there are way to define data hiding without referring to encapsulation?
<masak> or does data hiding imply an inner/outer boundary of some kind?
<masak> er, "information hiding", if that helps :)
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> masak, well, if you "hide" the data, you simply don't provide any way to access it right?
<masak> right.
<_bart> apeiros_: While Resque.enqueue does not error out, I don't see jobs in the web interface, how come?
<masak> but isn't it always hidden inside something?
<shevy> well not really
<shevy> class Foo; SOME_DATA = "this is some data"
<shevy> Foo::SOME_DATA
<shevy> ok, in this example it resides within Foo namespace
<Hanmac> i have a bad news for you masak ... in ruby you cant hide it forever ... i mean the user could find it
<shevy> class Foo; $some_data = "this is some data"
<shevy> in this example, it is global and can not be hidden
<fowl> all hail the user
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<masak> shevy: doesn't that prove my point, though?
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<masak> it's only hidden if it's inside something.
<shevy> depends on the definition of hidden
<workmad3> information != data
<masak> and that something does encapsulation of some sort.
<masak> workmad3: ok, maybe we need to have that discussion today, then :)
<masak> ...if you have time...
<fowl> ALL HAIL THE USER
<workmad3> how something is done is information
<shevy> nono he may say he does not have time
<shevy> masak, simply say that workmad3 is wrong, that'll start a discussion :)
<workmad3> and you *can* hide that sort of detail, if you're willing to jump through hoops :P
<workmad3> shevy: hey, stop revealing my secrets and weaknesses :P
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<masak> this is not a very mainstream definition of "information".
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<workmad3> masak: actually, it is ;)
<masak> (which is an indirect way of saying "you're wrong, workmad3") :)
<workmad3> masak: design and implementation is information that can both be encapsulated and hidden
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<mtfk_> hi, how to change default path for tmp file for Tempfile class ?
<fowl> hail the net split, giver and taker of connection
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<workmad3> masak: and the data that an object or program operates on could also be information (although it might also not be information... or your program may transform the data into information...)
<masak> ok, let's take an example. let's say I have a Set implementation. it's "information" whether the Set is implemented as a linked list or as a tree. I can hide that information so that a user of my class can't tell. that's information hiding. correct?
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<workmad3> masak: yes, that is a form of information hiding
<masak> and data hiding is just making attributes private, essentially.
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<workmad3> masak: well, apart from the issue that doing so doesn't make it very private in ruby ;)
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<samuel> \quit
<masak> so you can have perfect data hiding but screw up your information hiding.
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<robert_> shevy :D
<robert_> anyone here have much experience with Nokogiri?
<shevy> hey robbyoconnor
<shevy> I mean
<shevy> hey robert_
<robert_> :p
<masak> workmad3: well, many languages are like that. "not very private" in practice. Perl 5, JavaScript...
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<workmad3> masak: yes... for example, if you were doing a web API, you can perfectly hide your database IDs
<shevy> ewwwww perl
<robert_> ewwwwww
<fowl> yes yes talk amongst you, try to work out your petty problems, in the end, Net Split always wins
<robert_> kill it with fire!
<shevy> I think fowl is on weed again :)
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* masak smiles serenely at the people who have visceral reactions against Perl :)
<robert_> heh :p
<shevy> masak, it's ugly!
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<masak> shevy: not mine. nor my friends'.
<masak> oh, I should be more specific than that.
<workmad3> masak: you can get around private-ness in pretty much any language to some extent :)
<mtfk> is there some env variable for directory in Tempfile class ?
<robert_> shevy: I concur. I've seen enough "badly written" perl code to make me never want to use the language.
<shevy> the only language where I thought, my own code can be beautiful, was ruby so far
<masak> the syntax is ugly at times. but the language is still quite awesome.
<workmad3> masak: you just need to know the tricks, same as with ruby ;)
<masak> right.
<shevy> but even in ruby, one can write ugly code
<masak> I am a sixer, so I'm biased in unusual ways, I guess.
<JonnieCache> theres the old joke, perl == executable line noise
<masak> helping develop Perl 6 has given me a deep respect for Perl 5.
<shevy> masak, yeah, well PHP is ugly too but there are great apps written in it. phpbb and wikimedia ... I still have no replacement for that in ruby
<shevy> hehe perl 6
<robert_> yeah
<shevy> the ideal language for GNU Hurd
<masak> shevy: well, the difference is that Perl is semantically quite nice. PHP isn't.
<fowl> perl 666 more like it
<JonnieCache> mediawiki is NOT great software. wikiPEDIA is a great website, but have you ever actually had to use mediawiki?
<fowl> hahaha get it, evils and such
<workmad3> masak: but still... if you take the assumption that people respect 'private' declarations, then yes making an attribute private hides the data
<shevy> a few years ago, perl 5 didnt seem to move at all, the last 2 years it seems to move forward again
<masak> oh, I should've anticipated Perl 6 jokes. sure, bring it on. I can take it. :)
<masak> shevy: correct-ish.
<workmad3> masak: but you could still leak information about the class/object in other ways
<Hanmac> masak you cant hide the data with ruby from evil users like me :P
<shevy> Hanmac loves eval
<masak> workmad3: right, and sometimes you *want* to, for example information about thread safety.
<workmad3> masak: exactly
<masak> \o/
<masak> I get it.
<masak> thanks, workmad3.
<workmad3> masak: and you could even say those details are encapsulated, while still being exposed (because the details are within the object)
<chiel> I have returned1
<chiel> ! *
<shevy> chiel why :(
<hoelzro> make use of me
<masak> also, I can't make any of you love Perl 5 or Perl 6, and I don't intend to. I'm glad we're not flying at each other's throats as members of different tribes, and just keeping things on a civil teasting level.
<chiel> It's such nice weather here today, went for a stroll. :D
<shevy> masak, well perl 6 not as long as it requires me to have a working perl in order to bootstrap (parrot at least has this)
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<workmad3> masak: at a more general level, data is just that... data. It's numbers and values. Information has meaning associated with it :)
<masak> shevy: Niecza is a Perl 6 implementation on the CLR. it doesn't require Perl 5.
<shevy> aha
<masak> workmad3: there, I agree.
<shevy> have not heard of that one before
<masak> workmad3: so information always resides partly in someone's consciousness?
<masak> could there be information without consciousness?
<JonnieCache> yes
<workmad3> masak: that's a dubious claim... it relies on the assumption that meaning cannot be intrinsic
<JonnieCache> from a physics point of view
<masak> shevy: the Niecza developer doesn't do PR very well. so he's still inside the echo chamber. :/
<masak> workmad3: oh, indeed. I'm not used to thinking about this.
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<masak> workmad3: but I can't seem to recall I've never seen an example of intrinsic information.
<shevy> DNA!
<JonnieCache> thats a tough one
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<JonnieCache> does the info reside in the DNA or in the organisms that replicate it?
<workmad3> masak: it's been a while since I've exercised my knowledge on this sort of stuff :)
<shevy> only 4 different states at any position, and you'll see plentiful diversity in living systems
<shevy> JonnieCache, in the DNA of course
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<shevy> but the interaction levels are complicated
<JonnieCache> not so easy. theres a whole chapter of godel escher bach on this question.
<workmad3> shevy: so, you're saying that if you took just DNA, and with none of the machinery to disect and process it, the organism can still pop out of it fully formed?
<shevy> it's very simple, you can combine hybrid polymerases from yeast and human, and have it work still in both yeast and human
<masak> information is "how something is done", well then DNA is definitely information, not (just) data.
<workmad3> shevy: or if you stuck the DNA in a different set of machinery that 'read' it differently, the same result would still occur?
<masak> or it encodes information, or whatever.
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<shevy> workmad3, sure, but it requires a proper assembly platform. there are plenty of differences and modifications, glycosylation in higher living forms, which does not happen in i.e. bacteria
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<shevy> workmad3 well DNA alone is not everything
<workmad3> shevy: right... so where does the meaning of DNA actually reside... in the machinery around it, in the DNA, or in a complex interaction of the two?
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<JonnieCache> what about a vinyl record? where is the music residing? is it in the grooves of the record, in the algorithms/processes of the turntable/amp, or is it in my brain, and the record and turntable are just the switch to activate it there?
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<shevy> workmad3 good question
<workmad3> shevy: and that's why it's not a simple answer ;)
<justin_> can threads be named? and referenced by it rather than using references
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<justin_> *reference var
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<masak> would it be correct to say that Ruby objects are "opaque", in the sense that they are not just hashmaps that you can index? forget about introspection for a while.
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<workmad3> masak: yes
<JonnieCache> justin_: not that i know of. im no expert though
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<masak> ok, great.
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<workmad3> masak: that's an easy one to answer :) it's the reverse in JS btw
<_bart> okay I have these 3 small files and resque installed: https://gist.github.com/d272861d88d80a7bf232 but it's not enqueueing any jobs! And I don't notice workers doing anything or jobs being enqueue'ed in the web interface. Any ideas why?
<workmad3> masak: and in ruby, the introspection isn't perfect...
<masak> oh?
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> in the language Io, I was surprised that they had better introspection than ruby
<shevy> 5 years ago
<shevy> :P
<shevy> I dont like Io syntax though
<workmad3> masak: ask banisterfiend about things like reliable stack-frame introspection at some point ;)
<masak> yes, in JS (and Perl), it's the reverse. that makes it seem to me that "data hiding" isn't a very highly held principle in all languages. and maybe such an escape hatch matters in some cases, too.
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<justin_> JonnieCache: http://pastie.org/4305962
<justin_> this is the situation am in
<justin_> the threads perform user specific operation
<workmad3> masak: and not to mention when you have quantum effects on things like code blocks where what they are changes depending on if you 'observe' them or not ;)
<justin_> and the data is used in another block
<justin_> am having trouble referencing threads
<justin_> due to scope rules
<moritz> workmad3: where observe == invoke?
<_bart> could someone please take a look at my gist?
<workmad3> moritz: no, where observe == whether you have a reference or not
<masak> that sounds... unfortunate.
<moritz> aye
<workmad3> it's a runtime optimisation basically
<masak> are accessors conceptually autogenerated methods?
<masak> moritz: oh, you're here too? :)
<JonnieCache> they are literally autogenerated methods
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<masak> great, thanks.
<workmad3> so it's logically always a proc to some extent... but you can read the code and *know* it isn't, but can never observe that from inside the runtime
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<justin_> JonnieCache: is there a better way to get this done, or a workaround
<workmad3> masak: yes, they are autogenerated methods, and equivalent to 'def whatever; @whatever; end' but I believe the autogenerated method is native code rather than a pure-ruby method in MRI
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<masak> right.
<masak> to what extent can I play around with `Class` to modify the behavior of Ruby classes?
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<moritz> masak: only here because of a hint in #perl6
<masak> sorry for the vague question. :)
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<masak> moritz: ok. :) the people here think Perl is ugly for some reason, but they're quite civil about it. :P
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<JonnieCache> masak: you can modify the Class class like any other class
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<JonnieCache> but you cant change inheritance etc behaviour really, at least without hooking into the actual interpreter in C
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<masak> ah. right.
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<moritz> so it doesn't qualify as a full MOP
<banisterfiend> masak: what kind of things dou want to change, for example?
<shevy> masak, well, perl is old. we respect that perl is like the grandpa of scripting languages, so that's ok
<JonnieCache> you can change a lot of stuff in other ways though, as banisterfiend well knows
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<workmad3> masak: you can learn quite a bit about ideas underlying OO through this book btw: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/paulgraham/onlisp.pdf
<masak> shevy: :D
<workmad3> masak: starting on page 348 'Object oriented lisp'
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<shevy> PHP is less respected though... hehehe
<masak> shevy: I suppose that image is inevitable, even for a language that keeps reinventing itself.
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<masak> workmad3: I'll have a look.
<workmad3> masak: where the author actually includes a discussion as to what OO means and entails that is actually quite frank and enlightening :)
<JonnieCache> ruby is based on perl. its shot through with perlisms. matz has specifically stated that ruby is basically a tribute to perl
<JonnieCache> so dissing it in here is a little silly :)
<masak> I knew about the book, and I suspect I know what he will say about OO, but I will read it just to be sure :)
<shevy> masak well, after some time, it is hard to change a successful language. I absolute hate the python2 to python3 transition, so much that I dont want to learn python, until they cleaned up that mess
<shevy> or
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<shevy> ruby1.8 vs 1.9.x
<shevy> :))))
<masak> shevy: some things are hard or impossible to change, yes. even though they should be changed.
<masak> some features run very deep.
<shevy> but that step from ruby 1.8 to 1.9 is smaller than this python step
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<shevy> there are some programs, libx11/xorg-related, that require a working python. I once had the idea to use only python3... those compile scripts broke. so I'd have to revert to python2... I was mad
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<workmad3> ah, python 2-3 fun
<moritz> shevy: IMHO that's an unsolved problem of computer science
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<masak> what is? version upgrades?
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<moritz> how to manage breaking changes in something as fundamental as a programming language. Or the linux ABI. or... everything you rely on heavily
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<workmad3> moritz: hmm, I'd say it's more a partially solved problem of software engineering
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<shevy> yah well... you know
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<moritz> workmad3: the partial solution seems to be "just don't do it", right?
<shevy> if I would be guido and serious about it, I'd simply remove python2
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<workmad3> moritz: not quite
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<JonnieCache> moritz: the ruby solution is more "do it every weekend and damnthe concequences!"
<shevy> hehe
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<workmad3> moritz: however, it has been revealed to be not just a technical issue, IMO
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<workmad3> moritz: and I suspect you could actually extend it out from just computer science into aspect of business processes and possibly event sociology
<workmad3> *even
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<workmad3> s/computer science/software engineering/
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<banisterfiend> the rich give their mistresses tiny illuminated dying things and life is neither noble nor sacred nor good
<shevy> ok, another weed session
<JonnieCache> lol not everyone who ever wrote anything profound was high
<workmad3> moritz: but I'd say it's partially solved, because half the problem is detecting when a breaking change has occured and software engineering on the whole is coming up with strategies for that (mostly focusing on boundary testing, and pulling in things like encapsulation to reduce exposure)
<moritz> workmad3: but that wasn't what I was talking about
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<moritz> workmad3: I was talking about intentional, breaking changes and how to manage those
<moritz> workmad3: sorry if that wasn't clear
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<workmad3> moritz: yeah, I realised that :)
<workmad3> moritz: however, not all breaking changes break everything
<_bart> So I noticed resque-lock is about preventing jobs to be queued. But what if I want my queue to be filled entirely, but I want to lock specific workers. Because my queue consists of a bunch of hosts (for ex. google.com, yahoo.com, yahoo.com and apple.com), now it's processing the queue, but I don't want two of the same hosts entering different workers at the same time! How do I do that? I got resque-lock working but I don't think it'll help in this context.
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<moritz> workmad3: I'm well aware of that, but it's still far away from the core of the problem
<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: do you like dylan thomas?
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<JonnieCache> yeah i like poetry from that peroid. dont really know much about it though. i should read more...
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<workmad3> moritz: hmm, I'd say it was entirely the core of the problem myself
<workmad3> moritz: a 'breaking change' only matters to the people using it and who will be affected by it
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<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: how do you manage your music?
<workmad3> moritz: so the start of the problem is being able to reliable identify a) if a change will be a breaking change for yourself, and b) how much exposure you have to the identified breaking change and therefore how hard it is for you to adapt
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<moritz> workmad3: python2 -> python3 is a typical example I'm interested in. Lots of software depends on it. People know they aren't compatible. How to update everything to use the new version? How to make the update cost small enough that everybody does it with their own projects?
<fowl> you could spend infinite minutes crying over such things, and get no further in life
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<fowl> enjoy wasting your time
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<moritz> fowl: whom are you talking to right now?
<fowl> i speak to all who would listen
<workmad3> moritz: yes... and I suspect some (very few, probably trivial) python scripts had no effect from the python2-python3 change... to the perspective of those scripts, it wasn't a breaking change
* moritz stops listening to fowl
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<oddmunds> fowl: i think what you said applies to every conversation going on in all the irc channels i am in at themoment
<workmad3> moritz: the rest need to identify a) what aspects of the change are the breaking changes for themselves, b) how much they need to change in order to solve the breakages
<shevy> I really hate that build software broke because of python2 vs python3 incompatibility. this is like a totally new language
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<masak> yeah, good thing we made Perl 6 less ambitious than that. *snork*
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<ij> How do I do String#scan#first or String#match@to_s with one call?
<workmad3> moritz: until they know how exposed their code is, they can't work out how much it will cost either
<workmad3> moritz: however, that's focussing on the aspects that I classed as 'solved', even though not every project is using the solutions :)
<shevy> ij can you say what you want to achieve, rather than giving how you must solve it?
<shevy> you want to find and return only the first match of something in a string?
<ij> Yeah, with one call.
<ij> I'm tired of doing two calls.
<JonnieCache> banisterfiend: i dont really. i used to have lots of folders for genres so everything before a certain date is in folders
<ij> I hate it.
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<JonnieCache> banisterfiend: but since then the "unsorted" folder has got bigger and bigger
<shevy> ij hmm well .scan will always return an array, first will return a string. not sure why you need an additional to_s
<JonnieCache> banisterfiend: i never really have a problem finding what i want. remembering the name of the track/artist is much harder
<Hanmac> ij String#[/reg/] ?
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<ij> Yeah. woo hoo! String#[//]!
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<hoelzro> =(
<Hanmac> but i prefer the match object when i use an regexp with grouping
<hoelzro> indexing strings with regexes hurts my head
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<shevy> hehe
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<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: but the main issue for me is having the same music avaiable on all my devices, how do u manage that?
* hoelzro uses rsync for that
<JonnieCache> by having more music than any one device could ever hold
<JonnieCache> well not any computer
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<JonnieCache> but i have enough that its more practical to stream it from one machine to another than to sync it
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<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: how do u stream it?
<banisterfiend> what software do you use to play the music?
<JonnieCache> well i used to have a whole thing set up with an http server and an indexer and some fancy stuff
<JonnieCache> then just SMB sharing within the home network
<JonnieCache> but these days i live in an apartment on my own and only have one computer. here at work we only listen to podcasts/radio because it avoids having to change tracks a lot
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<JonnieCache> generally i used to put a huge amount of effort into tagging/renaming/filing/album-arting/synchronizing/streaming etc etc etc
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<JonnieCache> then one day i just stopped caring about any of that. my enjoyment of music hasnt suffered at all.
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<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: what do you listen to?
<JonnieCache> preparing DJ sets would probably be a lot easier if i were more organised though...
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<JonnieCache> all sorts, but mostly "rave" style electronic music and its many and varies offshoots and tributaries
<JonnieCache> right now, listening to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSLd9rjYgUg
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<JonnieCache> how about you?
<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: i'm simple, i mainly listen to old-school radiohead and davie bowie, and more recently fleet foxes and morrissey
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<JonnieCache> bowie is a genius
<JonnieCache> not so much of a morrisey fan :)
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<_bart> Could someone please take a look at this question I just posted about ruby and resque: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11613493/ruby-resque-requeueing-when-similar-job-is-already-running ?
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<shevy> I dont know resque
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<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: some morrissey is good
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<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: let me link u a track
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<JonnieCache> i like some of the tracks. i just hate morrisey
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<JonnieCache> i much prefer the smiths to his solo material
<banisterfiend> JonnieCache: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O71oNlKncww
<banisterfiend> yeah
<banisterfiend> the smiths
<banisterfiend> sorry ^
<banisterfiend> i just assume ppl hate the smiths too if they dont like his solo stuff
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<robert_> grrrr
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<robert_> http://ideone.com/B5k2x -- WHAT... is invalid about this code snippet?
<drizz> remove 'do' from if statements
<drizz> it's either 'then' or just nothing
<banisterfiend> robert_: could u follow me https://github.com/banister
<drizz> banisterfiend: how much are you paying
<banisterfiend> drizz: -1
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<robert_> banisterfiend: Of course. :D
<drizz> I'll follow you if you follow me.
<banisterfiend> drizz: i just want to break a hundy
<banisterfiend> robert_: thanks :)
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<robert_> No problem. :D
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<shevy> robert_, this is also a reason why I prefer {} rather than do/end
<shevy> the do confuses the mind
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<robert_> ah. :p
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<shevy> I liked it visually
<shevy> def foo
<shevy> array.each {
<shevy> }
<shevy> end
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<billiam> #gosu
<billiam> >_< whoops.
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<Norrin> there's some packages i need, but i've installed ruby via rvm. so rvm should provide these packages?
<workmad3> Norrin: that depends
<Norrin> "libffi-ruby1.8 libmysql-ruby1.8 libruby1.8"
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<workmad3> Norrin: oh, things like that... yeah, don't install them from packages
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<Norrin> workmad3, so where would I get them?
<workmad3> Norrin: the first one is, I believe, the ffi gem, the second is the mysql (or mysql2) gem, the third is probably just the ruby libraries :)
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<Norrin> workmad3, good stuff
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<Norrin> workmad3, thanks a lot
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<zai> hi guys. I have two streams. output from Open3.popen3 a file handle. I'd like to have all output written in the file immediately when it occurs (as opposed to having all output written when the bash process terminates). I tried setting sync=true for the file handle and using stream_copy to copy the streams, though it doesn't work. any ideas?
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<xclite_> it's been a while, but is there a flush method you can call?
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<zai> kind of. I can't call it while the stream_copy is still running, and it's running until the bash process terminates
<xclite_> ohhh
<xclite_> yeah
<xclite_> i'm useless
<xclite_> haha
<zai> nah, thx for the help ^^
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<Azure> asking again (since I never got an answer the first two times):
<Azure> I asked this earlier and I don't think that I got an answer earlier, but: I have a hash with nested hashes that I use in an array, and the hashes have the same structure/keys, but with different data (of course.)
<Azure> How would I translate that to a struct?
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<apeiros_> Azure: you probably better make an example (in & output)
<apeiros_> Azure: but most likely the answer is `map`
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<Azure> If you mean the structure that I'm using, then http://pastie.org/4306972
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<apeiros_> that'd be the input
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<Azure> output being how I'm using it?
<blazes816> Azure: are you wondering how to architect your structs, or just how to populate/instantiate them?
<blazes816> from that hashes
<blazes816> the*
<Azure> How to architect them, pretty much
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<apeiros_> output - the result you want to have
<blazes816> apeiros_ I think he's asking for guidance on that
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<blazes816> Azure: any reason you want structs instead of classes?
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<blazes816> not sure what your data is, but it seems like it may be a good contender for a class
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<Azure> blazes816, most just because I want something small, but I suppose that writing my own class would probably be better since I do have the sub-hashes.
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<blazes816> Azure: you know your use case much better than I, but I suspect classes (or a class) is the right move here.
<shevy> LONG LIVE RUBY!!!
<blazes816> shevy: you missed it, but everyone here has decided to change to erlang, sorry
<Azure> lmao
<JonnieCache> whats wrong with hashes man
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<JonnieCache> hashes are great
<shevy> gah erlang syntax ...
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<Azure> The plan anyway is to have a hash of those objects where the key is a string (or object, haven't fully decided yet), and probably even have methods for adding onto a count and clearing several values at once.
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<JonnieCache> try not to use full objects as keys. lookups are slooow that way
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<JonnieCache> i think strings are just as bad but someone here will know for sure
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<blazes816> JohnnieCache: I *think* strings < 23 characters are faster
<blazes816> or 32 or something
<JonnieCache> that sounds right
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<catphish> is there a way to get a timezone offset in ruby?
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<catphish> or even just the time in a particular place (which i can use to calculate the offset)
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<heftig> catphish: well, if you have a Time object, you have time.utc_offset
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<catphish> that's only for my local time though isn't it?
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<heftig> yes
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<nikeita> Hello, i'm new on ruby …i'm just in a studying stage, i would ask what is a best way to make an hash of functions?
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<heftig> nikeita: for what purpose?
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<nikeita> just for studying teh language, not e real purpose.
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<apeiros_> nikeita: funcs = {foo: -> { …code… }, bar: ->(x,y) { …code… }, …}
<apeiros_> just one way
<apeiros_> there's a couple
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<apeiros_> and "best" does not exist. you have to specify parameters in order to have something that is "best"
<heftig> i dislike the stabby
* apeiros_ stabs heftig
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<heftig> feels out-of-place
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<heftig> the syntax doesn't fit the rest of ruby
<nikeita> an hash of blocks?
<apeiros_> I'm trying to get used to it
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<apeiros_> same for the {foo: 'bar'} hashes
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<nikeita> i asked for an hash of functions
<apeiros_> nikeita: a hash of Procs
<heftig> nikeita: ->(x,y) { ... } is the same as lambda { |x,y| ... }
<apeiros_> nikeita: there are no functions in ruby
<apeiros_> lambdas are the closest to it
<apeiros_> other things to look at: Object#send (with which a hash makes little sense), and Method (in conjunction with Object#method)
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<apeiros_> with the latter, the receiver is predetermined
<nikeita> so def add(x,y) return x+y end ..is not a function^
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<shevy> heftig agree with you. -> is anti-thematic to the rest of ruby code poetry
<apeiros_> nikeita: no. it's a method
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<apeiros_> but for those, the two I told you (send & Method)
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<nikeita> ok it's a method...
<nikeita> then if i want an hash of methods?
<heftig> that's pointless
<nikeita> imageine a state machine
<apeiros_> nikeita: I told you
<nikeita> and call head method based on the hash key
<apeiros_> if you ask, you may as well read the answers you get…
<nikeita> s/head/each
<apeiros_> and again, pointless. no hash needed. just use Object#send
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<blazes816> nikeita: what about instead of creating a hash, just use the #send like apeiros_ keeps saying?
<nikeita> but i doesn't want hash of labdas
<nikeita> lamdas
<blazes816> niketa: no hash involved
<blazes816> nikeita*
<apeiros_> nikeita: dude, that wasn't the only answer I gave…
<apeiros_> meh, why try to help somebody who doesn't care to read…
* apeiros_ off
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<kaen> how would I match the character 0x33 ("\e") in a regexp?
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<blazes816> nikeita: say you have 3 states: foo, bar, baz. Right now, you want a hash with 3 elements
<kaen> can't find it in the Regexp doc
<blazes816> kaen: [\x33] should do it
<nikeita> yes, blazes816
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<blazes816> nikeita: so instead of calling state_machine[:foo](), state_machine[:bar], etc
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<blazes816> nikeita: create a
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<blazes816> nikeita: create a StateMachine object, with a method for each state. Then do sm = StateMachine.new(); sm.send(:foo); sm.send(:bar)
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<kaen> blazes816, /[\x33]/.match("\e") returns nil
<kaen> :/
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<blazes816> kaen: I gave you hex, not octal
<blazes816> sorry
<nikeita> ok, blazes816, make sense…...
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<blazes816> kaen: "\e".match /\x1B/
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<blazes816> kaen: \x denotes a hex string, but \3 is 33 octal, not hex
<nikeita> i was curios how to solve it with an hash…
<nikeita> btw
<kaen> oh whoops, thanks
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<blazes816> nikeita: no reason to. Ruby essentially keeps all methods in a "hash" for sorts. calling send(:foo) is basically looking it up in a hash and calling it
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<blazes816> if you really want to do a hash: https://gist.github.com/3164650
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<shevy> anyone of you using ruby-gtk ruby-gnome ?
<shevy> if so, I wonder if I am the only one to think that somehow, ruby-gtk has lost momentum
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<nikeita> then i can use it directly on main oject, blazes816 and apeiros thanks for claryfing.
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<shevy> dumdedum
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<shevy> is there a ruby-way to convert a .pdf into something else?
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<shevy> die, .pdf files, die!
<apeiros_> there's Pdf::Reader by gregory brown
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<cout> there's also FileUtils.rm
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<denysonique> Instead of doc.elements.each('//Time') { ... } can I do doc.elements.each('//Time').first?
<denysonique> for example?
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<denysonique> I would like the first XPath //Time
<denysonique> using REXML
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<wrapids> http://pastie.org/4307495 <- not sure what to do. cannot get ruby-debug going.
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<kennyvb> hmm when ever i require a file even if it's in the same directory i get error's testing in textmate and if i want to test in rib i have to write full path to file. any way of fixing this ? mac os x
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<kyle__> Whats the clean/proper way to fall back through different DBM libraries gdbm/dbm/sdbm if the first (or second) choice isn't available?
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<kyle__> I know I've seen it, I just can't recall it or find it right now.
<banisterfiend`> wrapids: gem install debugger instead
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<kennyvb> hmm apparently i have to append ./filename in my require for them to work… kinda annoying. fix wanted
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<wrapids> banisterfiend`: Yep yep, got that going a minute ago.
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<dokshor> oli
<wrapids> Didn't occur to me however that debugging a network application would be a little tricker
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<shevy> kennyvb could try require_relative too, or perhaps add to $LOAD_PATH
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<kennyvb> shevy i'm relative new to this ruby so have no idea what you want me to do hehe could you explain it ?
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<blazes816> kennyvb: when you require a file it must be found in ruby's LOAD_PATH. You can change 'require' to 'require_relative' which will make it look in the current directory, or you can add the current directory to the load path like "$:.unshift File.dirname(__FILE__)"
<shevy> kennyvb ok. there was a change from ruby version 1.8 to ruby version 1.9
<shevy> in 1.8 require 'foo.rb' would work
<shevy> in 1.9, for god knows what stupid reason, core team changed this
<kennyvb> i'm running 1.9.3
<shevy> a new method is require_relative in 1.9.x
<kennyvb> ahh so require_relative is the keyword i'm looking for
<shevy> yeah kinda... but I dont like it
<shevy> require 'foo.rb' is so much nicer to type than require_relative 'foo.rb'
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<blazes816> it's a trade off between typing a few extra characters, and polluting the load path
<kennyvb> thx shevy how ever i found out that putting ./ before filename makes it work aswell
<shevy> kennyvb yeah because you give extra information here with "./"
<shevy> means "in the current directory"
<kennyvb> ahhh
<shevy> I think if you change paths, then invoke that .rb file, it would not work
<blazes816> kennyvb: that will break if you run it elsewhere I think
<shevy> but if it is just for local testing, then I suppose this is ok
<kennyvb> so require_relative is better option then period
<blazes816> yes
<kennyvb> thx
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<kennyvb> Okkey i'm back . that doesn't work at all. i have require_relative test/unit and require_relative myfile and now it just comes up with bunch of errors
<kennyvb> ahh nwm fixed it :) require 'test/unit' works still it seems
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<Hanmac> kennyvb: require_relative are for your own files, not for the stdlib ones
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<kennyvb> Hanmac: ahhh okey, thx a bunch
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> which is how I usually solve things
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<shevy> I install projects I work on into SITE PATH
<shevy> then
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<shevy> require 'name_of_project'
<shevy> works
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<_bart> how do I clean the redis database?
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<KarlHungus> system("cat <(echo 'hello world')")
<KarlHungus> why is this failing in ruby?
<KarlHungus> do i not have access to shell constructs? am in a limited shell?
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<shevy> KarlHungus hmm
<shevy> I dont think system spawns a real shell
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<KarlHungus> fwiw, it also fails with backticks
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<shadoi> KarlHungus: you need popen3 or shell
<ForSpareParts> Could someone explain the difference between -> => and #=>? It's kind of ungoogleable...
<shevy> you should be able to use: return_value = `shell some_shell_script.sh`; require 'pp'; pp return_value
<shevy> ForSpareParts in what context
<shevy> #=> is clearly a comment
<shevy> -> could be the new lambda operator
<KarlHungus> shadoi: interesting
<shevy> => alone I never saw before... only via <=>
<shadoi> ForSpareParts: -> is new systax to refer to a proc / lambda. => is aka "hash rocket" and is part of Hash syntax.
<shevy> ah yes indeed
<shevy> hash :)
<blazes816> ForSpareParts: generally those are referred to as "skinny arrow" and "fat arrow"
<shevy> key => value
<heftig> KarlHungus: <() is a bash construct, and system() uses /bin/sh, not /bin/bash
<blazes816> if that helps you google it
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<ForSpareParts> shevy, shadoi OK, thanks. The context in which I saw #=> was the documentation for the Sequel library, here: http://sequel.rubyforge.org/rdoc/
<_bart> When I do redis.setnx("value", true) I expected it to return false if the value was not set, but it returns true!
<heftig> KarlHungus: try that line in the /bin/sh shell, and you'll see that you get the same errors
<burgestrand> ForSpareParts: # => is usually used to show something returns a value.
<Hanmac> #=> is the comment result ... its used in irc
<burgestrand> (or prints)
<shadoi> ForSpareParts: that's an example showing the result of a command in a REPL like IRB.
<ForSpareParts> Ah, OK.
<burgestrand> ForSpareParts: 2 + 2 # => 4
<shevy> yeah ForSpareParts
<shevy> this is typical IRB return value:
<KarlHungus> heftig: ok. thats it =)
<shevy> middle_east.map(:name) #=> ['Egypt', 'Greece', 'Israel', ...]
<ForSpareParts> Thanks!
<shevy> I changed it in my IRB to give this output instead:
<shevy> middle_east.map(:name) # => ['Egypt', 'Greece', 'Israel', ...]
<shevy> I like the ' ' after the #
<KarlHungus> heftig: thanks
<shevy> and you can copy paste that line into irb directly
<Hanmac> shevy you forgot the &
<heftig> KarlHungus: system('bash -c \'cat <(echo "hello world")\'')
<nikeita> hi, i'm learning ruby… i made this code and it works. Can possibly coded better form a ruby experienced POV ?
<nikeita> def help
<nikeita> available = []
<nikeita> puts "Available commands are: "
<nikeita> @commands.each_key { |k| available.push k.to_s unless k == :unknown }
<nikeita> puts available.join ", "
<nikeita> end
<shevy> careful with pasting
<burgestrand> nikeita: use pastie.org (or similar services) for pasting code please.
<shevy> if too many lines, use pastie.org
<nikeita> ops sorry
<heftig> KarlHungus: er, ah, or better:
<shevy> nikeita that code is already quite short
<heftig> KarlHungus: system('bash', '-c', 'cat <(echo "hello world")')
<shevy> I'd use available << k.to_s rather than .push
<heftig> this just invokes bash, not sh and bash
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<burgestrand> nikeita: @commands.keys - [:unknown]
<KarlHungus> heftig: or use teh %x[] syntax for maximum legibility =)
<heftig> KarlHungus: that'd be backticks
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<heftig> you can't use the command+args syntax in backticks
<nikeita> burgestrand ?
<burgestrand> nikeita: join will already to_s the values, so you’d get this: available = @commands.keys - [:unknown]
<KarlHungus> heftig: got it. ok
<nikeita> without the code block?
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<burgestrand> nikeita: yep, just like I wrote it there. If you paste your code somewhere I can show you where it’d fit in. :)
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<burgestrand> nikeita: http://pastie.org/4307891
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<nikeita> great, thanks burgestrand. one last thing, the array assignment could be avoided and joining it inline?
<burgestrand> nikeita: yep
<burgestrand> nikeita: http://pastie.org/4307894
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<nikeita> ;)…awesome
<burgestrand> nikeita: do remember though, shorter code is not necessarily better :)
<shevy> yah well
<blazes816> burgestrand: you don't optimize for memory usage required to store the program in memory?
<shevy> in this case, it kinda put together things
<kyle__> burgestrand: Being able to hold it all in your head at once is great, but yea, if you can't read it at the same time, not so much.
<shevy> puts (@commands.keys - [:unknown]).join(", ")
<nikeita> yes, lf course… less readability
<burgestrand> blazes816: of course I minify and gzip my ruby code so I can gunzip and eval it in production
<shevy> oh
<shevy> puts (@commands.keys - [:unknown]).join ", "
<blazes816> good man
<shevy> here that is better :P
<nikeita> but was only to understand the lang
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<burgestrand> :)
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<nikeita> impressed by the power of ruby…really
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<nikeita> thank you guys
<shevy> nikeita you used another language before, right?
<nikeita> yep...
<shevy> because your code is not typical newcomer code
<fowl> nikeita, have you completed The Staring yet?
<nikeita> Staring?
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<nikeita> i use Objecttive-c a lot
<fowl> nikeita, you must acquire a pure cut ruby (i can sell you one, its not that much) and star at the sun through the ruby until you are enlightened
<shevy> aha
<shevy> interesting, I am curious about your next piece of ruby code nikeita ;)
<kyle__> Heh.
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<kyle__> There is one thing that sucks about ruby: if you take a grad course that requires you use java or matlab, you feel like you're trying to build a computer with bearskins and stone axes.
<nikeita> will be in RubyMotion ;)
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<nikeita> fowl, i do not understand what you mean
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<fowl> we've all completed The Staring
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<nikeita> mmm, maybe i have to ask what is "The Staring"
<shevy> nikeita fowl is sometimes in the funny zone, too much weed
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<RubyPanther> class Sun < ActiveRecord::Base ; has_many :rubies ; has_many :enlightenments, :through => :rubies end end
<j|> Ruby has some clean design decisions. However it's pathological eclecticisms aren't one of them IMO.
<RubyPanther> The problem with people's complaints about Ruby's design decisions is that typically their alternatives are much worse.
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<otters> pathological eclecticisms
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<RubyPanther> Known things that have better alternatives are already the changes going into 2.0, and other things simply don't have better alternatives.
<otters> those words make sense individually, but not together
<blazes816> sounds like a garbage band from the 90s
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<j|> otters, it's a Perl reference. Basically I'm saying I like a lot of Ruby's OO-related decisions, but I really wish that there weren't so many ways to do the same thing(s).
<otters> why?
<j|> Just reminds me of the parts of Perl that drove me crazy.
<RubyPanther> Ruby gives you clear ways you're _supposed_ to do things, just follow what you're supposed to do.
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<j|> RubyPanther: I like that thought.. what do you mean / examples?
<RubyPanther> Ruby explicitly rejects the idea that all possible ways are equal, there is usually 1 correct way, and a bunch of other possible ways for emergencies
<kyle__> j|: But I thought perl's motto was TIMTOWTDI
<kyle__> There Is More Than One Way To Do It
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<fowl> $->yourmom
<blazes816> a fundamental part of being a powerful computational language is that there will be more than one way to do things
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<blazes816> see: math
<RubyPanther> If it seems there are a bunch of ways to do things, you're probably violating 2 basic principles already: everything should be duck typed, and methods should be very small and do 1 thing
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<kyle__> All the syntatic sugar in ruby means you can choose how you style your code, and make it consistant. VS either styling it how the buitins are, or making it inconsistant.
<j|> kyle__: yea, and that made me stop using perl eventually. Anyway, I really do not intend to start a war. I like RubyPanther's suggestion of there being one correct way.
<RubyPanther> That should leave you with one obviously right way to do anything in Ruby
<kyle__> j|: Not intended to fight, just pointing out why it's sometimes really nice, even if it is just sugar.
<j|> kyle__: well, it makes it harder to learn.
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<j|> for me, anyway.
<j|> I found python really easy to pick up and run with. Ruby I haven't been having as easy a time yet.
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<j|> however, I'm totally open to suggestions from people of how to learn
<otters> ruby is way more flexible than python
<kyle__> What makes things hard to learn for me is lack of up to date c module documentation. I spent hours cobbling my modules togeather for 1.9, mostly in here bugging experts for help.
<otters> hell, it has multiline lambdas
<j|> I'm sure my learning process itself could be guided / improved on.
<otters> j|: it took me longer to learn Ruby than most other languages I know
<otters> but you get used to it eventually
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<fowl> j|, are you ready to climb to the top of the peak and bathe yourself in the oils of the sky?
<RubyPanther> When I switched from Perl it was more a matter of un-learning than learning. You basically just have to read the pickaxe cover to cover three times. And then kick yourself whenever you have a procedural style method that does more than one thing
<j|> fowl: well, without the oil-bathing, sure.
<forestbird> what would be a good way to lookup documentation. find "ri" pretty awful... any tips?
* kyle__ is pretty sure fowl is baked
<RubyPanther> And don't write code like this: http://stuff.rubypanther.com/perl.rb
<fowl> sorry j| i can't help you
<j|> haha
<kyle__> RubyPanther: Looks like a ruby version of an IOCCC entry.
<fowl> forestbird, use pry and show-doc
<kyle__> holy crap ioccc is running again. http://www.ioccc.org/
<otters> RubyPanther: ha, that code doesn't typecheck
<otters> amateurs
<RubyPanther> otters: 1.8.x, sorry ;)
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<RubyPanther> amateurs
<otters> man
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<RubyPanther> but it does paste into irb if you have the old one, I did take at least that much care
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<otters> I don't have 1.8 handy though
<otters> I don't believe in rvm
<kyle__> RubyPanther: I don't think that runs in 1.9... doesn't for me at least.
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<RubyPanther> Indeed. But I'm willing to promise not to port it.
<kyle__> Thank you!
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<Hanmac> is neary funny as any?(&:=~)
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<ForSpareParts> Is using @ for instance variables just a convention, or does it have special significance in the language?
<otters> no, @ means instance variable
<canton7> it's not an instance variable unless it begins with @
<otters> if it's not @ it won't be an instance variable
<RubyPanther> even if you're creating them through the C API you'll need the @
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<ForSpareParts> I guess I'm confused, then -- I defined a variable with and without @, and got equivalent behavior. And I could've sworn they were both objects. What am I missing...?
<RubyPanther> unlike method names where you can go outside the rules and still create them and call them through #send
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<canton7> ForSpareParts, pastie your script?
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<ForSpareParts> canton7, http://pastie.org/4308054
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<k_89> canton7, you used to be a php user right?
<canton7> ForSpareParts, I see no instance variables or classes
<ForSpareParts> I omitted my model because I'm not sure if it contains information sensitive to my employers. Probably doesn't, but, y'know, better safe than sorry.
<otters> well we can't help you
<otters> if we don't see anything relevant
<otters> in the pastie...
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<RubyPanther> ForSpareParts the complete lack of OO code is why you're not seeing any effect from instance variables ;)
<canton7> k_89, still am a little, I'm embarrassed to say...
<ForSpareParts> hold on a second
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<otters> did you use attr_reader?
<k_89> canton7, hehe ... i am a full time php guy :P
<k_89> and i sorta like php :P
<otters> o_o
<shadoi> o_0
<canton7> it has its merits, as I found the first time I tried to run several ruby websites on my VPS and ran out of ram :P
<k_89> no discussions please
<blazes816> /s?
<k_89> hehe
<the_jeebster> ruby is most definitely a ram slut
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<blazes816> who isn't these days
<blazes816> it's 2012
<k_89> yeah php is way easier to set up ... but that is the reason for most of its notoriety
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<ForSpareParts> RubyPanther, canton7, otters: Here's the whole thing: http://pastie.org/4308069
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<canton7> ForSpareParts, again, no instance variables there
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<RubyPanther> or even instance methods to use them
<lectrick> Would a rescue formatted like this actually work? rescue ForwardTargetWithoutAddressException, ForwardMissingTargetException => ftwae
<ForSpareParts> canton7, I guess I wasn't totally clear, sorry. I tried declaring testPost with and without an @ prepended.
<canton7> ForSpareParts, testPost isn't in a class. there'll be no difference
<lectrick> it seems like only an exception of the latter class would populate the variable "ftwae" with the error details
<lectrick> (looking at someone else's code)
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<canton7> lectrick, I *think* (verify this) you can do 'rescue [Exception1, Exception2] => e'
<apeiros_> lectrick: yes
<lectrick> canton7: yeah, that's exactly what I was *think*ing too lol
<apeiros_> lectrick: you can even splat
<lectrick> apeiros_: ah ty :)
<ForSpareParts> canton7, Oh! *headdesk* I was thinking of objects as instances of classes, not instance variables. Comp sci fail. Sorry.
<otters> I still don't see any instance vars
<apeiros_> Rescues = [A, B, C]; begin … rescue *Rescues => e; … end
<apeiros_> lectrick: but as always with such questions: irb is your friend :-p (or pry)
<ForSpareParts> otters, Yeah, it I derped. Dumb question.
<otters> oh okay
<ForSpareParts> *it's because
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<ForSpareParts> (thank you guys, though)
<shadoi> ForSpareParts: It's one of the things about ruby that's interesting, *everything* is an object.
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<canton7> ForSpareParts, to be fair, you are in a class: Object. But it makes no difference here :P
<ForSpareParts> shadoi, Don't some other languages do that, too? I'm thinking of Python...
<shadoi> Nope
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<ForSpareParts> Really? I could've sworn that Python basically didn't have any primitives...
<shadoi> At least, not in the same sense
<canton7> you can't do 3.to_s in python, as far as I'm aware. But afaik everything in Python is still an object
<blazes816> ForSpareParts: it does have primitives
<blazes816> ForSpareParts: you must have learned python from my CS teacher ;)
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<ForSpareParts> heh.
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<jborica> is using defined? bad practice? It seems that I can substitute something like .respond_to in almost every case.
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<ForSpareParts> canton7, Interesting. So everything's an object, but "object" means something broader in Python terms than it generally implies?
<ranjan> hi, i need to develop a script that will ssh into all the nodes on a network which has ssh port opened and execute a command . where should i start. i am a beginner to ruby
<ranjan> and also oop :)
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<lectrick> ranjan: sounds black-hatty
<eam> lectrick: are you joking?
<kyle__> ranjan: The ruby ssh class has examples in the documentation that almost exactly do that.
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<kyle__> lectrick: Something many sysadmins need to do.
<lectrick> eam: I often do
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<shadoi> ForSpareParts: yeah, I misspoke, everything is an object, but the implementation tends to push people towards not using message passing semantics, and littering the global space with methods, etc.
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<ranjan> lectrick, do you have sample code which you use?
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<canton7> ForSpareParts, looking at http://stackoverflow.com/a/866085/1086121, it seems they're pretty similar underneath. They just differ in their approaches (deciding to use e.g. str(3) over 3.to_s)
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<ranjan> but i should identify whether ssh port is up on each node and then do an ssh
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<ForSpareParts> canton7, shadoi that makes sense.
<kyle__> ranjan: start by reading here http://net-ssh.github.com/ssh/v2/api/index.html
<ranjan> kyle__, yea, i am a sysadmin,
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<canton7> python's love of the global namespace for functions has always puzzled me
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<ranjan> kyle__, i could do this in bash using nmap and stuffs, but thought of entering into a language and just chose ruby
<shadoi> "puzzled" is too nice. :)
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<shadoi> It annoys the shit out of me.
<tightwork> Why do I get undefined method for slice? http://dpaste.com/774327/
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<kyle__> ranjan: Much easier if you're doing something complex. The link I poasted is the docs, which include examples. Start there, even before you look at someone elses code. It will make your life easier.
<Maniacal> does ruby have an opposing method for String.empty? Something that would return true if it's not empty?
<otters> tightwork: where?
<canton7> tightwork, half isn't an array/enumerable ?
<otters> Fixnum doesn't have a #slice method
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<otters> you probably want N.slice
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<ranjan> kyle__, thank you for the advice.
<nikeita> what do you think of rubymine ide from intelliJ ?
<Maniacal> I want to test that something is not empty and I need to do it in an "if", not an "unless". so the bash guy in me wants this to work: if ! stringvar.empty?a
<ranjan> kyle__, i will try to learn
<tightwork> OHHH
<tightwork> stupid me
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<tightwork> yeah N.slice .. thank you
<canton7> Maniacal, yeah you can do 'if !string.empty?', but you might as well use unless...
<otters> sometimes you just need a fresh set of eyes on it
<tightwork> indeed
<tightwork> I lack collaboration :(
<canton7> get a rubber duck
<burgestrand> ranjan: I did something that might help you get started a little more than a year ago
<burgestrand> ranjan: https://gist.github.com/865129
<tightwork> hmm rubber duck
* kyle__ facepalms
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<canton7> i've had one sitting under my monitor for 3 years now :P
<tightwork> I will try it
<kyle__> Somone actually made a letmebingthatforyou.com
<ranjan> burgestrand, thank you.
<eam> ranjan: you might also want to look at https://rubygems.org/gems/mssh
<canton7> kyle__, oh dear... tbh imo it's too quick. Doesn't annoy the recipient enough
<eam> it provides an interface likely suited to your use case, as well as a standalone ssh multiplexing command
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<Maniacal> canton7: yeah, just needed to remove the space after the bang
<kyle__> Hehe
<Maniacal> canton7: can't do an unless because it's part of a compound if. thanks for the help
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<kyle__> OK, I undertsand the rubber-ducking. A fair amount of the time I start typing out my questionin irssi, and then delete it because properly asking it answered it.
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<canton7> Maniacal, just switch round the cases?
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<iamjarvo> is there a great app on github that I can look at for good tests with test unit
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<atmosx> hello
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<EstanislaoStan> How can I do this without the putting the methods calls into an array since that isn't allowed?http://pastie.org/4308213
<EstanislaoStan> http://pastie.org/4308213
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<shadoi> EstanislaoStan: you just want to execute each method listed in the array?
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<blazes816> EstanislaoStain: use symbols of the names of the methods in the array. Then use Object#send.
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<burgestrand> You can send strings, too.
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<blazes816> well, yeah, duck typing and all. but if you can use symbols, why not?
<Tasser> how do you run minitest unit tests?
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<shevy> I can send warplanes
<burgestrand> Tasser: I just require minitest/autorun and run the test with ruby test.rb
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<shevy> testing is only for the weak
<shevy> real men write bug free code
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<burgestrand> There’s also a specific test task in rake somewhere
<EstanislaoStan> What does Object#send look like? Does that mean Object.send(:symbolname)?
<blazes816> EstanislaoStain: also don't loop like that. Use Enumerable#each
<RubyPanther> Testing is for QA monkeys, real coders have people to do that nonsense.
<blazes816> yes
<EstanislaoStan> Ok, thanks.
<blazes816> np
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<kyle__> shevy: And they write it in ed.
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<shevy> hmm
<kyle__> On a greenscreen 300baud serial terminal.
<shevy> if there would be an editor written in ruby...
<shevy> if ruby could be used like C ...
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<WirIrrenUmher> what does "<--" do in ruby?
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<WirIrrenUmher> i mean "<<-"
<apeiros_> it's part of a heredoc
<apeiros_> <<-DELIMITER
<apeiros_> is a string literal
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<shevy> WirIrrenUmher, your nick is great
<apeiros_> with the content of the string being the text that starts on the next line and is terminated with DELIMITER
<WirIrrenUmher> shevy: thanks
<WirIrrenUmher> apeiros_: okay, thanks
<apeiros_> note that the string really is <<-DELIMITER. meaning you can do foo(<<-DELIMITER), or foo(<<-DELIMITER.downcase)
<apeiros_> or even multiple here-docs in one line: article(<<-SYNOPSIS, <<-TEXT)
<WirIrrenUmher> apeiros_: okay... i just read it in some sample code and couldn't find out what it dies
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<WirIrrenUmher> does
<shevy> WirIrrenUmher you should have a look at "alle meine entlein.rb" from apeiros_
<WirIrrenUmher> what?!
<shevy> it is some .rb file that plays this audio tune
<WirIrrenUmher> okay
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<cmaujean> I've got a gem that needs to run on both 1.8.7 and 1.9.3, whats the current wisdom on this, should I make different gems, or one gem that remains compatible with both versions through ifs and case statements?
<EstanislaoStan> blazes816: How would I include my while conditional if I used Enumerable#each?
<shevy> cmaujean I would use only code that works in both versions
<shevy> that means, avoid: -> require_relative, new hash syntax ...
<shevy> (3 items so far)
<cmaujean> shevy: what about rcov vs simplecov?
<shevy> hmm... avoid case foo; when bla: lala
<shevy> never heard of that, what is that?
<shevy> if it is a pure ruby module, simply turn it into a standalone gem
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<shevy> and name it "dualcov" or something :)
<cmaujean> rcov is a coverage tool for 1.8x and doesn't work in 1.9, simplecov works in 1.9
<shevy> ok and simplecov does not work in 1.8.x I suppose
<cmaujean> afaik, no it doesn't
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<shevy> but still that sounds easy... just have a method or some other way to use either rcov or simplecov
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<cmaujean> yeah, the main question is really 2 gems or 1 :)
<shevy> one of course, for your main app
<cmaujean> I guess I'll go with 1, as i have it coded now :)
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<blazes816> EstanislaoStan: add "break unless @should_handle_next_command_type" to the end of the loop block
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<shevy> a bit long a name
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<blazes816> lol, yep
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<EstanislaoStan> blazes816: Why is this way better? And sorry, I'm bad at thinking of shorter names that remind me what the variable/method/whatever is for.
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<blazes816> Estanislao
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<blazes816> EstanislaoStan: only because it's "the ruby way". it's easier to read for other rubyists. they other way would work fine
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<Mon_Ouie> EstanislaoStan: Regarding your first question, calling methods from an array literal *is* allowed
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<Mon_Ouie> Ah, never mind, misread what you were trying to do
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<apeiros_> blazes816: meh, breaking from loops is bad style in almost every language
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<apeiros_> to more or less quote my CS prof: if you break out of a loop, you failed to state your loop condition
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<apeiros_> and ruby is especially great at providing a vast arsenal of loops. there's something in for about everybody.
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<Xethron> heya guys... I have a IRC bot. I want to search for smileys, but a large regex containing every smily takes a lot of memory. Does anyone have a suggestion? I currently use /:P|:D|:)|:(......./ (Didn't add escapes just to make it look better)
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<Mon_Ouie> apeiros_: I think that some times, it's still more natural to write it using break — when you need a few variables in both the condition and the code to be executed
<apeiros_> Xethron: "a large regex … takes a lot of memory" - are you just making that up or did you test?
<Xethron> well, processing power... And yes, I did test it...
<Xethron> I think I have like 100 different smileys...
<eam> Xethron: that won't take much memory at all
<apeiros_> Xethron: that'll certainly cost around 50 wubbabytes!
<lectrick> apeiros_: / canton7 : So, as it turns out, this will actually work. You don't have to splat an array: rescue OneError, TwoError => e (will rescue both those types of errors, and put the result in e)
<Xethron> so its /1|2|3|4...|99|100/
<Xethron> lol
<Xethron> I just wanted to know if there is a more effective way or not?
<apeiros_> Xethron: seriously, don't mentarbate.
<lectrick> (i guess, that's the same as splatting an array tho... anyway the splatted array looks a little more readable to me)
<Xethron> If there isn't, then its cool
<apeiros_> Xethron: most likely any other way you'll devise will cost *more* memory
<apeiros_> most likely *vastly* more
<apeiros_> unless you plan to write a C extension and are really good at it…
<Xethron> apeiros_: ah, awesome. Thanks :)
<apeiros_> Xethron: just be careful about proper escaping
<apeiros_> /:)/ e.g. is wrong
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<Xethron> I know
<eam> Xethron: how did you test that it "takes a lot of memory?"
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<Xethron> eam: I ment processing power soz
<blazes816> eam: I believe memory was changed to cpu time
<eam> ah
<Mon_Ouie> SmileyList = […]; SmileyRegexp = Regexp.union SmileyList
<eam> I ask because there are a number of escaping bugs you could introduce which would in fact take a lot of memory
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<Mon_Ouie> Saves the trouble of escaping those manually
<eam> or processing time
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<eam> eg many expressions with an unescaped ?
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<eam> but those would be errors in the regex, and not slowness in matching a large a|b|c pattern
<Xethron> and I did it for a few lines at once to see how quick it does it. Just wondered if there's a better way or not.
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<ForSpareParts> Anyone know why I would get a "no such file to load -- sinatra" error upon requiring Sinatra? I've already installed the package with gem...
<otters> try gem "sinatra"
<otters> i.e. put that in the top of your file
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<shadoi> ForSpareParts: Make sure you're using the same ruby runtime, and make sure it's in any isolation systems (like bundler, rbenv, etc)
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<ForSpareParts> otters, I get an "undefined method 'gem' for main:Object" error when I do that.
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<ForSpareParts> shadoi, I do seem to remember having more than one ruby runtime for some reason. How could I check that everything's in sync?
<ForSpareParts> I mean I'm assuming that, say, gem is using a different runtime than I'm invoking from the terminal or something along those lines?
<shadoi> use "which ruby"
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<ForSpareParts> shadoi, Alright, I get 'usr/bin/ruby'
<ForSpareParts> What does that tell me?
<shadoi> If you're running with a different user then make sure THAT user's path uses the same ruby
<apeiros_> otters: you *never* have to do `gem 'somename'`
<apeiros_> you only ever use that if you have to activate a specific version
<otters> oh
<apeiros_> ForSpareParts: ruby -v
<apeiros_> is it a 1.8?
<otters> huh, I didn't know that
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<ForSpareParts> apeiros_, Yeah. 1.8.7
<apeiros_> ForSpareParts: in 1.8, you have to require 'rubygems' in your app
<apeiros_> (and make sure it's in your app, not your lib)
<apeiros_> ForSpareParts: also, update to 1.9 already. 1.8 has been dead for years now.
<apeiros_> (and there you don't have to require 'rubygems' anymore either)
<ForSpareParts> apeiros_, Righteous! Thanks!
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<twpm> Is there a gem that has the ability to read/remove PM's in twitter?
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<the_jeebster> twpm: http://twitter.rubyforge.org/
<atmosx> awesome twitter gem
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<atmosx> magic things can happen!
<twpm> the_jeebster: I was looking at that gem but didn't see where it was able to process private messages on twitter.
<the_jeebster> pretty sure that's the most comprehensive twitter wrapper out there for ruby
<the_jeebster> you could always add that functionality to the gem and submit a pull request!
<the_jeebster> as long as the twitter api supports PMs
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<atmosx> ti does support PM's
<twpm> the_jeebster: Yeah I might do something like that I need to see if the API supports it or not.
<atmosx> the twitter gem
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<dalton_> Hello all, what does $` do?
<dalton_> as in:
<dalton_> if @data =~ /[\n][\r]*[\n]/m
<dalton_> $`.each {|line| puts ">>> #{line}" }
<dalton_> end
<apeiros_> $` is either all data before the match or all after
<apeiros_> I always confuse those two
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<apeiros_> what a messed up expression…
<shevy> I dont like $`
<dalton_> ah, awesome, thanks. Global variables are hard to google
<apeiros_> [\n][\r]* == \n\r*
<apeiros_> dalton_: google 'zenspiders quickref'
<apeiros_> contains all syntax and probably all globals
<dalton_> thanks!
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* Hanmac dont like $`
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> Hanmac is like my lost brother
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<workmad3> shevy: or your evil clone
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<apeiros_> no, no
<apeiros_> shevy is the evil clone
<workmad3> apeiros_: they're both evil :P
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<shevy> we alternate our designated roles
<shevy> sometimes he plays batman and I am the joker
<shevy> and sometimes its the other way
<Hanmac> batman constumes are banned in the USA ...
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> they are concerned of more people following
<shevy> trolls in reallife are annoying
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<Hanmac> 1.) didnt the shooter call himself the joker? so why are batman costumes banned? 2. ) and why are no banning about guns?
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<apeiros_> Hanmac: yeah, only in america, when a costumed person shoots down people, the *costumes* get banned…
<apeiros_> Hanmac: also TIL - in the US, buying a car is far more regulated than buying a gun & ammunition
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<apeiros_> it's ridiculous, really.
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<blazes816> apeiros_ that isn't true
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<shadoi> ugh, I can't escape this fucking topic.
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<blazes816> a 4 year old could buy a car if they had money and could spell their name
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<eam> blazes816: no they can't -- look up vicarious liability
<eam> giving a 4 year old a dangerous tool is a textbook example
<shevy> Hanmac yeah no idea why batman costumes are banned
<eam> (same is true for a gun)
<blazes816> eam: I don't mean driving or anything
<blazes816> eam: obviously for that you need a lot more
<blazes816> but ownership?
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<eam> right
<blazes816> i've owned a vehicle since I was 12. Not 4, but I guess we can move it up to 12.
<shevy> hmm if joker costumes would be banned, they would have to forbid makeup
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<eam> also this discussion is retarded, costumes aren't being made illegal or regulated -- this is one theatre changing their private business rules on private property
<eam> wearing a batman outfit is protected first amendment speech in America and cannot be curtailed by the government
<eam> totally different from the issue of regulating gun/car purchases
<shevy> doesn't one amendment say that everyone can use arms?
<eam> blazes816: whoever gave you a car at 12 might be found liable if you were to crash it
<eam> shevy: yes but in America the bill of rights applies to the federal government, not necessarily the states or municipal governments
<blazes816> eam: I bought, with cash, my name on the title. of course my father would be found liable if I were to even drive it, because you can't do that until 14.
<apeiros_> blazes816: do you need a license to drive a car? do you need training in order to get that training? do you have to pass a written test? a practical test? need insurance for the vehicle? need to pass inspections at intervals?
<eam> shevy: that's why gun legislation is at the state level, not federal
<apeiros_> blazes816: and now try the same questions for weapons
<blazes816> apeiros_: I was only speaking of ownership
<apeiros_> blazes816: "oh let me exempt everything but the part where my argument makes sense"? :)
<blazes816> " Hanmac: also TIL - in the US, buying a car is far more regulated than buying a gun & ammunition"
<eam> apeiros_: your argument is the one that doesn't make sense. Regulating driving on roads is very different than limiting access to vehicles in general
<blazes816> Not "Hanmac: TIL in the US driving a car is far more regulated than buying a gun & amunition"
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<eam> apeiros_: case in point, nothing prevents an unlicensed driver from buying a car and using it illegally
<apeiros_> blazes816: ok, I think it's *obvious* that buying a car means driving it
<apeiros_> the 0.01% that buy a car for their collection are the exception
<shevy> cars kill more people than guns
<blazes816> you'd be wrong.
<blazes816> robotics, mechanical education materials, spare parts
<apeiros_> eam: but that's not the argument
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<eam> apeiros_: that's not *your* argument, but it is mine
<eam> and mine is better
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<apeiros_> eam: so lets not regulate anything because people might do it illegally anyway?
<apeiros_> awesome argument…
<eam> apeiros_: sorry, are you suggesting that shooting people isn't already illegal?
<apeiros_> eam: no
<eam> you're the one mis-applying the concepts of ownership, regulation, and illegal activity
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<apeiros_> no I'm not
<eam> guns and cars, both are free to buy
<Tasser> how do you run minitest unit tests from ruby code?
<eam> guns and cars, both are HEAVILY regulated to use
<eam> apeiros_: do you see your error?
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<apeiros_> eam: assuming your assertions are correct
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<apeiros_> but from what I've heard it's quite to the contrary
<eam> you've heard wrong
<apeiros_> eam: so care to answer the questions above?
<eam> apeiros_: which question?
<apeiros_> maybe you can clear it up and let me hear it correct then…
<apeiros_> >> do you need a license to drive a car? do you need training in order to get that training? do you have to pass a written test? a practical test? need insurance for the vehicle? need to pass inspections at intervals?
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<heftig> s/get that training/get that license/
<apeiros_> yes, of course
<eam> operation of a car and firearm are both heavily regulated -- it's much easier to get permission to drive a car in a city than it is to fire a gun in a city
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<apeiros_> eam: you're evading
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<eam> I'm answering the question you are trying to ask
<apeiros_> you're assuming
<eam> no, I'm stating
<_bart> I'm having trouble writing a proper test for my new Resque plugin: https://github.com/bartolsthoorn/resque-workers-lock Resque works with redis. The test should check what jobs are queue'ed and ensure the plugin works. (I know because I tested it with a log file and it shows correct behaviour) Contributors welcome!
<eam> and you're confused
<apeiros_> 00:26 eam: I'm answering the question you are trying to ask
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<apeiros_> that's an assumption
<eam> nope
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<apeiros_> lol
<_bart> also my first gem I ever released :)
<apeiros_> eam: so why don't you just answer the question straight?
<Tasser> apeiros_, don't feed the troll. so a) ignore b) go op rage
<eam> I did
<blazes816> apeiros_: yes need a license. you probably need training, but if you could figure it out whatever. you do have to pass a (easy) written exam. practical test- not everywhere. you only need liability insurance.
<apeiros_> eam: no. you didn't
<jrajav> Holy off topic politics Batman
<eam> apeiros_: 15:26 < eam> operation of a car and firearm are both heavily regulated
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<eam> you need licenses for both
<blazes816> apeiros_: you need a license to carray a weapon. you probably need training to get the license to carray this
<apeiros_> eam: that's not an answer. blazes816: thanks for actually answering
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<eam> you're obtuse
eam was kicked from #ruby by apeiros_ [no ad-hominems]
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<apeiros_> blazes816: how about renewals and inspections? do you have to do that for cars?
<Tasser> apeiros_, my guess would be you picked b)
<workmad3> apeiros_: wow... it's like eam had never met a programmer before...
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<apeiros_> Tasser: no, I just apply channel rules. he can be abrasive to me all he wants. the moment he insults he has to go.
<blazes816> apeiros_: you need to renew your license every 4 years, but that's just standing in line. they don't do vehicle inspections everywhere
<blazes816> workmad3: lol, very true
<workmad3> blazes816: don't you love being in a profession where you can pick two people, one will argue that black is white, while the other is convinced it's a shade of magenta? :)
<blazes816> workmad3: Black isn't a color!
<shevy> only because the human eye cant discern the wavelength in use!
<_bart> you can't keep people from killing other people, unfortunately
<shevy> I am going to get me infrared eyes one day
<_bart> you can only make it harder to do
<workmad3> blazes816: it is if you're dealing with the subtractive colour model :P
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<heftig> but eyes are additive!
<workmad3> heftig: eyes? I was talking about paint!
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<blazes816> so, apeiros_, jw, how do you feel guns should be handled? flat out illegal?
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<workmad3> blazes816: with an intelligence test before ownership is granted...
<blazes816> that'd be nice
<jrajav> With the right kind of computer and the right kind of intent, you can bring down a hospital's power long enough to kill many people at once
<jrajav> Should we outlaw computers?
<workmad3> blazes816: yeah... can't be letting smart people get guns
<apeiros_> blazes816: I see no reason anybody should have a weapon. I don't think the world we live in allows to go that route (yet), though.
<workmad3> blazes816: anyone with an IQ > 100 should be refused ownership :P
<blazes816> haha
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<blazes816> apeiros_, I figured. I imagine that's a common opinion outside the US?
<apeiros_> blazes816: however, I see absolutely no reason even in the world as it is, for a private person to have an automatic, or even half-automatic gun.
<blazes816> the only other place i've been is mexico and they love guns
<shevy> mexico also has insane drug trafficking
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<blazes816> apeiros_, definitely true.
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<apeiros_> blazes816: I mean by what rationale can you justify having a weapon? self-defense is clearly not it anymore when it's about such weapons…
<jrajav> A free, democratic society should never outlaw something like guns. That opens a very, very dangerous door. Soon everything the government wants to control, it will, all under the name of safety and security.
<blazes816> shevy: thank the CIA
<shevy> they already do so, with or without guns
<jrajav> Regulation is the proper route.
<workmad3> jrajav: haha... regulation *is* control
<shevy> the idea that anyone cares just because every few years people go to ballots and make their X, anything changes as a result of this, is an illusion, with or without outlawing guns
<jrajav> workmad3: Precisely
<jrajav> It's control that doesn't undermine freedom
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<blazes816> jrajav: reread 1984
<workmad3> jrajav: bullshit... any and all control undermines freedom
<workmad3> jrajav: it's just giving up some individual freedom in the name of a working society
<jrajav> You don't understand what freedom is
<apeiros_> blazes816: not entirely (common view outside the US) - we have our army weapons at home. and every citizen is required to go to the army. so everybody who wants can theoretically have a gun for free. I'm not a fan of it.
<apeiros_> and for some reason it stood up against a voting about it just recently.
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<shevy> apeiros_ you must defend chocolate with a gun
<blazes816> apeiros_ where do you live?
<apeiros_> blazes816: switzerland
<shevy> in chocolania
<blazes816> ah, figured
<blazes816> i'm a fan, but never been there
<apeiros_> blazes816: but even with that, our guns-per-capita is lower than that of the US - that part amazes me…
<blazes816> apeiros_: my father has >20 guns. so that it'll do it
<blazes816> in mass
<shevy> ack
<shevy> an addicted man
<blazes816> definitely
<blazes816> been marries >10 times
<shevy> like the guy from american beauty
<blazes816> married*
<apeiros_> 2 guns per bride?
<workmad3> heh
<shevy> what happened to the wives? :)
<blazes816> only ~7 wives
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<blazes816> he's hit some them up a few times
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<workmad3> the only guns I've ever seen have been either fake or decomissioned
<blazes816> not *hit*. bad choice of words
<shevy> the only real guns I see here are carried by cops
<blazes816> shevy: he was also a cop
<blazes816> go figure
<shevy> ahhh
<workmad3> shevy: I've never even been around armed cops somehow (or at least, not that I've noticed :) )
<blazes816> i despise the man, but that's beside the point that a bunch of people have stockpiles, which ups the per capita
<heftig> in this room here is a safe full of rifles
<blazes816> workmad3: you can't be in the US? not sure i've seen an unarmed cop (on duty)
<workmad3> blazes816: nope
<workmad3> blazes816: UK
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<blazes816> ah. hoped maybe a nice small town somewhere
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<workmad3> blazes816: heh :) hopeful eh? ;)
<workmad3> ok, out of battery power, g2g
<blazes816> workmad3: i honestly don't mind guns too much, but not when the cops have them
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<workmad3> blazes816: heh, so you don't trust the people nominally trained to have guns... interesting :)
<blazes816> trained to be assholes
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<workmad3> anyway, I am now on empty battery... night
<apeiros_> blazes816: is that the prevalent impression of cops in the US?
<blazes816> enjoy your safety!
<apeiros_> n8 workmad3
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<blazes816> apeiros_: pretty much split into 2. probably 60% or so hate cops, the others are too stupid to care.
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<blazes816> or, are more forgiving :)
<apeiros_> funny. here it's usually the <22 who mostly dislike the cops. overall it's probably 80% who see them in a positive light
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<apeiros_> but I have the impression that there's much less reported bad behavior of cops here. don't know whether that's just due to the media or reflects the actual behavior differences…
<blazes816> here, most people arn't bad. therefore the cops (who are just a giant business), have to find other stuff to do.
<blazes816> most people that dislike cops stongly, do so because they who and what they work for, and the things that implicitly support
<blazes816> that they*
<blazes816> drug prohibition, illegal searches and seizures
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<blazes816> etc
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<shevy> well
<shevy> some thugs can be used like cops
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<shevy> see the protests in G8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9H731Xt_04 at 08:50, undercover cops acting as agent provocateurs and instructing the local cops to move back away from streets a bit
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<iamphi> I am getting a "Exec format error" on windows when trying to run the 7zip 64bit installer. More details here: http://pastebin.com/DsYb2XgW
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<_bart> A var can be Nokogiri::HTML::Document but also a Nokogiri::XML::Element, how do I check for the namespace of a var?
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<_bart> iamphi: added #!/bin/bash to the top of setupNewComputer.rb ?
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<iamphi> _bart: I don't thinks so. I can run other installers like that, but they are 32bit
<iamphi> and i don't have bash on windows
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<_bart> oh yes that's true, hmm I knew that fixed some exec format errors for me in the past but that was on unix obviously
<_bart> hmm
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<apeiros_> _bart: var.is_a?(Nokogiri::HTML::Document)
<_bart> apeiros_: I'd like to check on Nokogiri::*
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<blazes816> _bart: something like self.class.to_s.split("::").first == 'Nokigiri' ?
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<_bart> ah that's cool, blazes816, thanks!
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<blazes816> np
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<Xethron> woot!!! I just found a tron AI comp!
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<heftig> send it to the grid
* Xethron applies
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<Xethron> never done this before... will prob not win... but what can I lose?
<Xethron> oh darn... needs to be in java or .net...
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* Xethron wonders wich of the two is faster...
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<blazes816> Xethron: that's a ridiculous, because there's no good up-to-date ruby for the CLR
<blazes816> ridiculous question*
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<Xethron> I didn't mean ruby...
<blazes816> just kidding
<Xethron> I hoped I could, and then saw its .net...
<blazes816> I prefer C# over Java any day
<blazes816> .net only, or can you submit JVM binaries?
<Xethron> I just dunno .net
<Xethron> well, I have two months till the comp
<Xethron> lemme check
<Xethron> "Your program must be able to be compiled in either a Java 7 or a .NET 4 environment."
<blazes816> If you can do JVM binaries, write it in mirah and submit the .class files. Otherwise learn C#. If you know Java, it's extremely similar.
<blazes816> Bingo
<blazes816> mirah my frield
<blazes816> friend*
<blazes816> or Scala
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<Xethron> Java programs must be compiled using maven and .NET projects must be compiled using msbuild.
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<blazes816> darn
<Xethron> and "The operating system that will be used for the challenge is Windows Server 2003."
<Xethron> hehe. yar
<blazes816> wtf
<Xethron> no idea?
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<blazes816> write a massive exploit masked as a tron ai
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<blazes816> I'd go with C# if I were you
<Xethron> I don't really know windows or .net all that well... But most people seem to love C#
<Xethron> ya
<blazes816> you can write it on unix, and port it windows
<Xethron> lol, I just dunno C# or .net... :D
<blazes816> it's super easy
<Xethron> But cant be much different to C and C++
<blazes816> if you know them you'll do fine
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<Xethron> :)
<blazes816> and especially if you know java
<Xethron> I hear they're a lot alike
<Xethron> I'm reading up on strategies people take to wright the AI...
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<jrajav> C# is actually VERY different from C++
<jrajav> It's a good thing
<Xethron> we have 4 seconds per move... which is quite a lot!
<jrajav> You'll know the operators, that's about it
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<blazes816> you know the general syntax
<Xethron> the bord is a 30x30 sphere
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<jrajav> It's a lot closer to Java; thankfully, it's also not TOO close to Java
<Xethron> jrajav, thats what the internet is for
<jrajav> Attaboy :P
<adac> switching over from mechanize 2.1.1 to 2.5.1 now suddenly gives me an error like this: undefined method `save_as' for #<Mechanize::Image:0x0000000639dce8> any ideas what might be wrong?
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<Xethron> ok, lemme go bother people in C#
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<Xethron> Thanks blazes816 and jrajav :)
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<blazes816> np, good luck!
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<EstanislaoStan> Is this acceptable? Defining the methods inside my methods like this just for organization and easy understanding's sake? http://pastie.org/4309226
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<jerm1080> Hey guys can any tell me where to look for my problem in this stack?
<seanstickle> jerm1080: you're trying to split a nil
<seanstickle> jerm1080: so look for what is being split, and see why it's nil
<jerm1080> In which file?
<jerm1080> This isn't a program of mine
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<jerm1080> One I'm tying to run
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<Maher4Ever> Hey everyone, does anyone know what can be the reason rb_gc_mark blow up on me sometimes with this error 'unknown data type 0x0(02485db8) non object' ?
<seanstickle> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/cjdns-tool-0.10.0/lib/cjdns-tool/runner.rb, apparently
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<Maher4Ever> I'm developing an extention btw
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