<RubyPanther>
Well, once in awhile I do have to reboot to upgrade my kernel. This isn't the 90s, I'm not going to get 1000 days of uptime, it just isn't going to happen
<mrFrog>
if i run "rake test", and any 1 test fails, then rake aborts with an error: Command failed with status (1): [/Users/example/.rbenv/versi...] - any ideas on why this is happening? i think it's affecting me so i don't get growl notifications if any test fails (which seems to defeat the purpose)… i get notifications if all tests pass
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<_cb>
newbie question. I can see how the views hold the html for different pages. How do I share html across multiple pages? is there something like an include?
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<GarethAdams>
_cb: I think you meant to join #rubyonrails for that one
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<_cb>
must have ;)
<_cb>
join #rubyonrails
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<RobBennett>
Here's the deal. I have $32 dollars that I am going to pay to get to the maximum amount of free dropbox space. I get an extra 500mb for each person who signs up using my referral link(below). Dropbox tells me what email you use to sign up with when I get credit for the referral. If you successfully sign up, I will send $1 via paypal to that email address. Here is what you have to do: 1. go to http://db.tt/s5UJRt2P 2. Sign up using yo
<RobBennett>
in a fake I get no space and you get no cash. 3. You must download and install the dropbox app, it is just a few mbs. 4. Sync ONE file-can be anything. create a random .txt file or stick a photo in there or something. That's it. I'll get notice within a day or two and will promptly send out payment. This is no scam. I need about 13gb of dropbox space and paying you all to do this once is a lot cheaper than paying $10/month in the l
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<seanstickle>
No soliciting man.
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<mksm>
assuming I have rendered a text file using .erb template and some vars, is there any way I can extract the rendered vars from the text file by using the template?
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<mksm>
sort of ... un-rendering
<seanstickle>
Parsing and comparing, I suppose
<mksm>
so a template engine won't be able to do this?
<banisterfiend>
RobBennett: $13/month is really not very much..and it's less humiliating than doing what u're doing :)
<seanstickle>
mksm: right
<banisterfiend>
RobBennett: 13/month gets me 100 gigs on dropbox
<banisterfiend>
pretty good deal if u ask me :)
<RobBennett>
it is good, but I only need about 10gb
<RobBennett>
and I don't want to pay monthly. I'm cheap
<RobBennett>
I never pay for anything monthly if I can avoid it
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<seanstickle>
This seems like one of those times that an op should kick someone
<mksm>
Can Thread.exclusive {} be used instead of mutex.synchronize {} ?
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<_justin>
i was wondering if we could nest template inside another in sinatra
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<_justin>
like
<_justin>
get '/'
<_justin>
haml :index
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<_justin>
haml :index_inside
<_justin>
is this possible??
<_justin>
if, not wots the workaround ?
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<_justin>
when i attempted it gives me localjumperror
<_justin>
no block given
<banisterfiend>
_justin: krisskross would be so upset
<_justin>
banisterfiend: !!!
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<tiripamwe>
banisterfiend: so would the daddy mac
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<_justin>
banisterfiend: thats possible is it not? isn' t it how layout works
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<potato333>
Hi I jumped onto #rubyonrails, but after some thought I think this chan might be more appropriate. Can somebody provide a resource or some explanation about when 'class scope' method calls are evaluated/loaded (proper terminology would help). I might be investigating the wrong issue. Specifically, I've got a class_eval on an already defined class that calls a method in it's body (belongs_to [actually, delegates_belongs_to, but I think
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<potato333>
I would like to erase that call from existence. Is there a way to reopen a class and say 'forget everything you've learned' and redefine it? (Actually, "forget this one thing you've learned" would be better). There's probably some conceptual jump I have to make.
<potato333>
*its
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<ryanf>
this is really a rails question. ruby doesn't care that you called belongs_to; the only thing that matters is the effects that call has on the various class-level state that rails maintains
<ryanf>
(the list of associations, etc)
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<ryanf>
so there's not going to be a simple way to remove it at the ruby level
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<ryanf>
if you actually want to just completely remove the class, you could use remove_const
<ryanf>
but the association itself will be a lot messier
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<banisterfiend>
Hanmac: we released new pry, now have slop 3 support, just for u
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<markamber>
How should I learn ruby? I like videos, short attention span...
<markamber>
I know python well
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<seanstickle>
Get a book on Ruby
<_justin>
codeschool!!
<seanstickle>
And a computer
<seanstickle>
And then move forward
<seanstickle>
Easy
<seanstickle>
This is not rocket surgery.
<markamber>
seanstickle: the problem is that I don't like books… I just had to read a book on how to learn haskell and I want videos for this one...
<seanstickle>
markamber: hmm, ok
<seanstickle>
markamber: you're going to fail
<seanstickle>
markamber: perhaps you would like a career in HR?
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<markamber>
seanstickle: the thing is that I don't actually have to learn this language… so if there are no good video tutorials you guys recommend I will look for one myself, and if it is not any good I will never learn ruby
<seanstickle>
Sounds about right.
<markamber>
I would just rather use Ruby on Rails than Django… Seems more well respected
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<fowl>
is this a generational thing
<markamber>
fowl: exactly
<ryanf>
haha
<fowl>
i'll only learn your language if its presented to me by my favorite celebrity
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<ryanf>
......dhh
<seanstickle>
There's probably a market for "Megan Fox Teaches You Ruby"
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<ryanf>
as long as you don't have to see her hands typing?
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<markamber>
Ok, so what is the ultimate book for learning ruby
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<seanstickle>
Ultimate? None.
<seanstickle>
But the Well-Grounded Rubyist is good, as is the O'Reilly one
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<fowl>
i would say pickaxe but i dont think the 1.9 version is free
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<markamber>
seanstickle: so what you are telling me is that there is no good way to learn ruby
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<fowl>
holy christ
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<seanstickle>
markamber: no, I am telling you that learning things don't involve words like "The Ultimate"
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<seanstickle>
markamber: and might require that you read something
<fowl>
if you had the ruby bible would you even be able to finish it?
<fowl>
you need to get different perspectives
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<seanstickle>
This isn't the late 90s and you don't go buy QUE's Ruby SuperBible Special Edition
<seanstickle>
If you "know Python well" as you claimed earlier, Ruby is not going to be a challenge to pick up from any reasonably good book.
<seanstickle>
If you want "Ruby in 20 Simple Videos" from the Computer Professor, well, that's something else.
<markamber>
seanstickle: is it like python?
<seanstickle>
In some ways.
<seanstickle>
More than Haskell is.
<fowl>
i've heard good things about ruby koans
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<markamber>
seanstickle: of course, I don't expect it to be like that
<seanstickle>
fowl: yeah, those aren't bad
<fowl>
you should be able to fly through it with prior programming knowledge
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<markamber>
Basically I just need to know the syntax for data structures and what I am allowed to do (in python it is pretty much free for all, in my experience with java, not so much, c is kinda weird since you are manipulating the memory so much you can just muck around with bits and cast things as whatever you feel like) I am sick of python being so lenient on things, sometimes I just want public and private and interfaces so I can write what I
<markamber>
think is better code, is ruby a step in that direction?
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<seanstickle>
Sure.
<ryanf>
yes, ruby is more like that than python is
<ryanf>
although it is always possible to get around restrictions, so if that bothers you you might want to learn something else
<seanstickle>
It's no APL, but it's a pretty good language
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<markamber>
Well Ruby has what I think is the best in class web app thing (ruby on rails) I have deployed lots of web applications and the ones on rails had the most desirable blend between using my own web server software, but not sucking like PHP
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<hell_razer>
hello, i am new at ruby, i am looking something like python virtualenv for ruby
<banisterfiend>
Spooner: good day, sir
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<hell_razer>
hello, i have installed https://rvm.io/rvm/install/#explained then, installed some gems, according to setup guid of some app, i need to run bundle install, but i get an "Could not locate Gemfile"
<GarethAdams>
hell_razer: is there a Gemfile in the app directory, and is that the directory you're running `bundle install` from?
<hell_razer>
Gadgetoid: i am running from ~
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<GarethAdams>
hell_razer: your tab completion is a bit out there ;)
<GarethAdams>
you need to be in the directory with the Gemfile
<hell_razer>
how i can find in which directory its located?
<GarethAdams>
hell_razer: have you cloned that project down to your computer using git?
<GarethAdams>
oh
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<hell_razer>
Gadgetoid: is cloned != gem install?
<GarethAdams>
ok the documentation is a bit misleading
<GarethAdams>
I assume you're trying to use this gem inside another project?
<hell_razer>
Gadgetoid: i am complete new to ruby, thats first time, i am trying to follow guide from that app
<hell_razer>
Gadgetoid: i need to isntall gem and clone this project?
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<GarethAdams>
I'm not Gadgetoid
<hell_razer>
ohhh
<hell_razer>
sory
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<hell_razer>
tab missed
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<hell_razer>
Gadgetoid: sorry miss
<GarethAdams>
hell_razer: if you've installed the redmon gem, you should be able to just type `redmon`
<hell_razer>
GarethAdams: oh, yes)
<GarethAdams>
bundler works as a mini package manager and is an alternative way to get bundles of gems installed
<GarethAdams>
you don't have to use it, but if you were building a project and wanted to list all of the gems it depends on, bundler is a good approach
<hell_razer>
GarethAdams: if i typed bundle install in directory app it downloads all needed gems to that directory?
<GarethAdams>
kind of
<hell_razer>
so that something lijke virtualenv for python?
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<GarethAdams>
virtualenv is more like RVM
<GarethAdams>
bundler is specifically for gem management, not whole ruby environments
<GarethAdams>
so, if I type `bundle exec my_program`, the only gems available to my_program are the specific versions of the gems which are defined for that project
<GarethAdams>
no matter what other gems I have installed.
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<hell_razer>
thnx
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<Spooner>
I'm passing Float::INFINITY to a C extension and putting it into a float/double with NUM2DBL(), but it is becoming NaN. Any ideas?
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<Hanmac>
Spooner you are right... this is not okay oO
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<Spooner>
Quite :)
<banisterfiend>
burgestrand: sup burg
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<burgestrand>
banisterfiend: \o.
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<Hanmac>
Spooner ... what ruby version? and can you make me a pastie?
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<Spooner>
1.9.3 - Not sure what I would paste (you just want to see snippet, or you need to have something you can run?).
<Spooner>
On win64
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<Hanmac>
my first test was this: DBL2NUM(NUM2DBL(obj))
<Spooner>
Actually also on lubuntu64, whuch is where I'm gdbing it.
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<Spooner>
That does seem to work though :) I'll see if I can throw together a working RubyInline for you (I'm building a gem with rake-compiler).
<Hanmac>
... i test this: (std::numeric_limits<double>::infinity() == NUM2DBL(obj)) and it works :D
<Hanmac>
... Spooner do you want something to suprise? then run this: (1 / -Float::INFINITY) :D
<Spooner>
hanmac Ah, I was aware of +0.0 and -0.0 in floats, but I didn't expect them to flop out into Ruby :D
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<Mon_Ouie>
You know, there's a much simpler way to write -0.0 in Ruby… that's -0.0 :p
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<Hanmac>
oO you are right! i thought its resolved to 0.0
<Hanmac>
the bad thing is that you cant ask the easy way if an variable is -0.0 :P
<Spooner>
value = 0.0 if value == 0.0 # Just to make sure? :D
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<apeiros_>
value.abs?
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<Hanmac>
the problem: -0.0 == 0.0 is true, while NaN == NaN is false :D
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<Spooner>
(-0.0).abs #=> 0.0 # but that seems a bit overkill.
<apeiros_>
NaN.abs # => NaN -- I have no idea what you guys actually want, though…
<Mon_Ouie>
Is there any reason for having both -0.0 and +0.0?
<Spooner>
Hanmac: I have to assume my code is at fault regarding Infinity/NaN, not anything ruby. I'll try to drill down a bit more. Sorry!
<apeiros_>
limes changes
<apeiros_>
Mon_Ouie: in maths, for some limes expressions where x -> 0 the result depends on whether x starts negative or positive
<Spooner>
Mon_Ouie : They are in the IEEE float specification and when I got taught about it I knew why they both existed.
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<Hanmac>
Spooner about -0.0 yeah its possible to make 0.0 out of it, but i cant check if a value is -0.0
<Spooner>
It is an implementation detail, not a mathematical one, though.
<Spooner>
If I recall correctly.
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<apeiros_>
Spooner: there are mathematical reasons to have pos & neg zero
<apeiros_>
compare 1/0.0 and 1/-0.0
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<Spooner>
Running that in Ruby proves that the implementation is that, not that you need it mathematically. However, you are right, there are reasons for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero
<apeiros_>
Spooner: um, no. implementation reflects maths there, not the other way round.
<apeiros_>
division by zero is inferred by limes, and if you have 1/x for +x -> 0, then the result is +∞, whereas for -x -> 0, the result is -∞
<apeiros_>
meh, seems 'limes' is not used as a term in english…
<Spooner>
No idea what it means.
<apeiros_>
literally 'limit'
<apeiros_>
it means you let x approach 0
<apeiros_>
once starting from a positive x, once from a negative x
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<apeiros_>
and the result differs
<Spooner>
I don't disagree, but the effect is because of the limitation of implementation in floats, not in "real" numbers.
<banisterfiend>
except if i was doing an actual math exam i would just put '0' in both cases
<apeiros_>
Spooner: you're wrong though. and the article you linked to actually mentions it.
<apeiros_>
"Negatively signed zero echoes the mathematical analysis concept of approaching 0 from below as a one-sided limit,"
<apeiros_>
as I said, implementation echoes maths there.
<banisterfiend>
apeiros_: same article always says this: "On the other hand, the concept of signed zero runs contrary to the general assumption made in most mathematical fields (and in most mathematics courses) that negative zero is the same thing as zero. "
<apeiros_>
banisterfiend: I think that's poorly worded, since "negative zero and positive zero should compare as equal"
<apeiros_>
anyway, may want to talk with an actual math master about that :-p
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<banisterfiend>
apeiros_: note that the 'negative 0' is just used in a limit notation to show which direct 0 is being approached from. It's not actually saying that a 'negative 0' exists as a mathematical concept distinct from just 'zero' afaict
<banisterfiend>
which direction*
<apeiros_>
yes, as I said
<apeiros_>
right from the beginning
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<Spooner>
5 * -0.0 => -0.0 /// 5 * -0 => 0 /// Makes good mathematical sense? :D
<banisterfiend>
Spooner: because only floats have a concept of negative/positive zero
<banisterfiend>
fixnums dont
<apeiros_>
Spooner: you may want to visit some math classes in your local university :-p or talk to a mathematician. not everything about maths is intuitive.
<banisterfiend>
it's a quirk of floats
<Spooner>
Oh well, I have to give up. -0.0 has a reason to be, even if it is only in certain circumstances.
<apeiros_>
and I'm by far not qualified enough to properly explain the reasons and implications.
<Spooner>
And yes, I am not a mathematician :/
<banisterfiend>
Spooner: it's probably mentioned in the IEEE float page on wikipedia
<banisterfiend>
the rationale for negative positive zero and so on
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<wrapids>
I'm starting a fairly large project, and was interested in using rails. I've been trying to find reasons to leave PHP/Zend to use rails instead. Rails is supposed to be robust and easily readable and maintainable vs PHP. I can't help but to notice some problems with that. For instance variable declaration. $x is obviously a variable in PHP, whereas x could be a number of things in ruby. The same could be said with properties and methods. $x
<wrapids>
->y/$x->y() whereas ruby simply has x.y . These are just the examples I have with my limited knowledge of ruby (I'm not bashing it). What is it that makes ruby easier to maintain, what makes it more readable? Why should I choose rails over zend? I'd like to broaden my approach and learn a new language (ruby) but I'm not sure of it's benefits or long term usefulness.
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<banisterfiend>
wrapids: i assume, based on that, that PHP is the only language you know? :) Most langauges dont have the $ sigil, and they get along just fine
<banisterfiend>
wrapids: however, ruby does use the @ sigil for instance variables
<wrapids>
banisterfiend, That's just an example. I'm familiar with c and java as well, a little experience with some lower level languages and python.
<banisterfiend>
wrapids: @x is guaranteed to be an ivar
<apeiros_>
wrapids: that x can be either a method or a variable is in practice only a problem if you create dozens of lines long methods. as long as you code sanely it's practically never an issue.
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<wrapids>
And sorry I'm bothering you with this, Google results seem very biased in phps favor, but it makes sense as it also seems that statistically php developers are more common
<banisterfiend>
wrapids: i assume why they say rails is more maintainable than zend is more to do with the architecture/design of the framework than with the syntax of the language
<wrapids>
banisterfiend, I can't be too sure of that, my experience with the Zend framework has shown that it is highly maintainable, it has a very modular design. As I said also though, I have no experience with rails, and not much more with ruby
<apeiros_>
wrapids: as to why ruby is easier to maintain: people.sort_by { |person| person.first_name }
<apeiros_>
show me the equivalent code in php
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<wrapids>
apeiros_, Yes, it does seem to have quite a bit built in, I don't see how that makes it more maintainable. Although it does save quite a bit of time to not have to worry about such.
<banisterfiend>
wrapids: less boilerplate == less code to maintain, i guess :)
<wrapids>
banisterfiend, true
<apeiros_>
wrapids: you don't see how 10k lines vs. 100k lines of code are easier to maintain? are you serious? :)
<apeiros_>
I mean I guess if all your projects stay below 1k line even with boilerplate - sure. but maintainability of baby projects isn't an issue in any language I'd say.
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<apeiros_>
also, it's not just about *less* code. it's also about *readable* code. you write code once, you read it ten times.
<apeiros_>
and `people.sort_by { |person| person.first_name }` leaves little questions open.
<apeiros_>
the code is concise - not only short, but also expressive.
<wrapids>
apeiros_, If you're familiar with the syntax :p
<apeiros_>
wrapids: not true
<wrapids>
apeiros_, I mean, I know what it does for the most part.
<apeiros_>
anybody who knows english will be able to guess what this does.
<wrapids>
apeiros_, But I am curious as to the purpose of the pipe character, as well as what 'person' is
<wrapids>
I suppose the sorted list is being stored in the variable person?
<apeiros_>
no, the sorted list is returned by this expression
<wrapids>
What is person?
<apeiros_>
people -> person - you get a single person out from the people collection
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<apeiros_>
and you tell sort_by that the value to sort_by is person.first_name
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<wrapids>
If I'm not mistaken then, this returns the value but doesn't save it in the persons collection? In this case {...} is iterated upon? The abstraction is confusing me I think.
<apeiros_>
yes. {} is a piece of code that is evaluated once for every person in the people collection. and no, as said, the sorted list is the return value of the expression. it is not stored anywhere.
<apeiros_>
you can use sort_by! to sort people in-place. or you can reassign: sorted_people = people.sort_by…
<wrapids>
apeiros_, I belive that is what I sad?
<wrapids>
It returns the value but doesn't save <-quote
<wrapids>
well, this returns*
<apeiros_>
yes, I confirmed your assumption
<wrapids>
Ah
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<wrapids>
I imagine since the language was influenced a great deal by readability and ease of developoment that |...| or <...>.fistName could vary? Could you give me an example?
<Hanmac>
i tihnk this is the shortest :P people.sort_by &:first_name
<wrapids>
As in { |this| that.firstName}
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<apeiros_>
people.sort_by { |p| p.first_name }
<apeiros_>
the || contain the arguments passed to the {} code block
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<Mon_Ouie>
On a sidenote, the convention is ruby is to use snake_case over camelCase
<apeiros_>
just the same as with a function in php, where you have function($person) { … }
<wrapids>
Mon_Ouie, I'll keep that in mind
<apeiros_>
wrapids: do you know javascript?
<wrapids>
apeiros_, I think I understand
<wrapids>
apeiros_, Bits and peices. Most of my experience is with php frameworks. I've used it here and there but nothing too in depth.
<wrapids>
Oh, well hang on I missed the first lien somehow
<wrapids>
I have a rough idea
<ij>
How does ruby know it has to search for stuff in ~/.gem, if ~/.gem isn't in $:
<apeiros_>
ij: rubygems patches Kernel#require
<Tasser>
ij, it shouldn't
<Tasser>
oh
<apeiros_>
and rubygems doesn't rely on $:
<ij>
Sweet.
<apeiros_>
ij: run `gem env` to see where gem looks for gems.
<Tasser>
apeiros_, it changes $: for soe point
<Tasser>
ehh at some point
<apeiros_>
Tasser: yes, at the moment a gem is activated
<wrapids>
apeiros_, That's another question I suppose that I have, I've deployed a couple of rails products and I'm not sure exactly what gems are. My experience with it I guess you could say is purely from a sysadmin perspective.
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<apeiros_>
wrapids: gems are just code packages
<Tasser>
wrapids, ruby packages
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<wrapids>
Oh
<apeiros_>
similar to .rpms, e.g.
<ij>
How can I make X use rubygems and find stuff in ~/.gem? I required rubygems, but it didn't do the trick.
<apeiros_>
rubygems also comes with a search & load mechanism for that code. php's rough equivalent is pear.
<Tasser>
ij, example code?
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<Tasser>
ij, you could tinker around wiht $GEM_PATH
<apeiros_>
ij: GEM_PATH env variable is read by rubygems
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<apeiros_>
but I don't think it's advisable if you mess with that stuff yourself unless you know what you do.
<ij>
Myeah, well I would know how to use GEM_PATH, but that seems wrong.
<apeiros_>
well, ~/.gem needs the right structure
<ij>
Gem created it.
<apeiros_>
o0
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<apeiros_>
then gem should install stuff in there and requiring from there should work just fine…
<wrapids>
I'm doing some reading and playing around with this a bit. The resource I've found says that Time.new's hour attribute should return 0-7 with 0 being sunday. I'm gettinig a 7 for sunday it looks like.
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<wrapids>
Actually, that would be a too tired mistake on my part
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<shevy>
wat
<shevy>
.hour returns the hour of the day
<shevy>
Time.now.hour # => 14
<ij>
apeiros_: Any ideas?
<shevy>
Time.now.wday # => 0
<wrapids>
shevy, I screwed that all sorts of up in my head, my code, and on here. I meant to say the wday was returning 7. I was calling hour in my code instead of wday.
<wrapids>
shevy, It's about 730 and haven't been to bed yet. My thought process isn't at its best
<apeiros_>
ij: a bit busy, but check Gem.paths.path instead of shelling out. maybe your required rubygems picks up different settings (for whatever reason)
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<shevy>
wrapids: well you can always look at the method names ;)
<shevy>
if .wday would return hours then this would indeed be strange
<apeiros_>
(Gem.paths.path corresponds with the output of "GEM PATHS" from `gem env`)
<shevy>
In the future I will only code when drunk
<shevy>
that's quite some path in there
<shevy>
going to file a suggestion to use Gem.paths.paths.path
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<wrapids>
If I were to want to print two integer variables from one line, how would I do that?
<apeiros_>
wrapids: depends on how the output should look
<wrapids>
apeiros_, You keep that last one away from me
<wrapids>
Is there a strikeout in your W?
<apeiros_>
printf? that's quite useful for simple textual reports
<wrapids>
Oh god, yeah keep that away.
<apeiros_>
my W?
<wrapids>
Hrm... %5d %5d_W_n?
<ij>
wat
<apeiros_>
\n ?
<wrapids>
Yes, that
<apeiros_>
backslash n
<wrapids>
Oh
<wrapids>
\
<apeiros_>
your irc client doesn't properly display backslashes?
<wrapids>
Hrm.
<wrapids>
apeiros_, xchat, and apparently no
<apeiros_>
that's quite a problem in a programming related channel… :)
<ij>
Get weechat.
<wrapids>
ij, It's moot, I'll be switching this box to *nix pretty soon
<apeiros_>
wrapids: iirc xchat has settings to interpret some backslash-sequences
<wrapids>
At least for everything that should involve using IRC
<wrapids>
apeiros_, If it doesn't by default somethings wrong.
<ij>
apeiros_: I noticed that it's searching in .gem/ruby/1.9.1 instead of 1.9.3.
<apeiros_>
wrapids: agreed. defaulting to process backslashes is rather bad…
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<shevy>
xchat is nice
<shevy>
I am on weechat right now and I hate it
<ij>
Why?
<shevy>
I don't get a nice and simmple overview with it
<shevy>
I only have this horribly small blue status bar
* ij
shrugs.
<wrapids>
I much preefer konversation
<shevy>
that one I couldn't stand much
<ij>
Oh, god.
<wrapids>
lol oh?
<shevy>
if ruby-gtk wouldn't break for me every half a year, I'd write one in ruby-gtk
* apeiros_
has yet to find an irc client which makes him happy
<shevy>
maintaining bindings in ruby seems way much work. I wonder why python is ahead of ruby here
<ij>
apeiros_: Where does rubygems' version of require exist?
<wrapids>
If I'm not mistaken, gnome is being phased out is it not?
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<wrapids>
I believe Ubuntu and Arch are already trying to move away
<apeiros_>
ij: in irb, run: method(:require).source_location
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<apeiros_>
ij: you may want to talk to drbrain in #ruby-lang, he maintains rubygems
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<apeiros_>
meeeh, js… all those creepy is* has* get* and set* prefixes again :(
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<wrapids>
Actually now that I think about it, it's ubuntu time again
<shevy>
ewww ubuntu
<shevy>
the distribution that hates ruby
<wrapids>
shevy, Oh?
<shevy>
sure. they hate gems
<shevy>
it provides an out-of-distribution way to handle dependencies
<Tasser>
shevy, debian hates gems
<shevy>
yeah
<Kwpolska>
ubuntu, the distribution that is hated by everyone with a bit of skills in linux
<wrapids>
shevy, Recommendations?
<Tasser>
wrapids, archlinux
<shevy>
wrapids: not very useful ones. I say all distributions must die but this is the minority opinion
<Tasser>
# --user-install is used to install to $HOME/.gem/ by default since we want to separate
<apeiros_>
wrapids: ask 20 people. get 20 different replies. enjoy.
<Tasser>
# pacman installed gems and gem installed gems
<Tasser>
gem: --user-install
<Tasser>
archlinux solution to rubygems :-)
<shevy>
wrapids: my main complaint is that debian/ubuntu change gems, and modify ruby, then people come here and ask how to update ruby, or make things work with gem. it is unfair to put the burden on other people, and the developers who made those changes are to blame
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<objlinks>
hello rubyists
<wrapids>
shevy, Would, RVM(Not sure that's correct) be a proper solution to that problem?
<shevy>
if debian would work, RVM would barely be needed :)
<ij>
What doesn't hate gems?
<objlinks>
i came across an example like, search(:titles, name: 'abc')
<shevy>
wrapids: it's an improve compared to debian, it's not really a good solution IMO. or, it won't be needed for everyone. I for instance install gems on my own, compile ruby always from source etc...
<objlinks>
they have mentioned that ':titles' is return value
<wrapids>
shevy, I don't forsee any problems then
<Mon_Ouie>
ij: Rubyists? Gold miners?
<objlinks>
can someone pls explain me?
<shevy>
with RVM? people didnt like it and preferred rbenv
<shevy>
so we are then back to what apeiros_ wrote, ask 20 people, get at least 20 different replies ;)
* apeiros_
likes rvm
<wrapids>
shevy, My experience with ruby on Ubuntu hasn't involved aptitude
<wrapids>
shevy, Everything from source, or using bundle
<objlinks>
if seach method return a single or arrray of values, it will be stored in titles?
<shevy>
wrapids: but then you already work in the outside-distribution world
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<shevy>
I am surprised that system ruby works for you easily
<wrapids>
shevy, ?
<wrapids>
shevy, Works easily? no. I've had nothing but problems with it.
<shevy>
ah ok
<wrapids>
shevy, That's not even development, just from a sysadmin perspective
<shevy>
thought everything was fine, which surprised me cuz I wondered why people here had problems before. I would not know as I don't use debian myself
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<wrapids>
shevy, There may be ruby problems, but ruby is a small portion of what I'll be doing.
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<shevy>
hehe
<wrapids>
php works just fine with debian :p
<shevy>
they like php more I suppose
<shevy>
but then again php is used more widely than ruby too
<wrapids>
shevy, By a fairly large margin from what I was reading
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
if I were matz I'd focus on the www first, before doing mruby
<wrapids>
But I'd rather not have to deal with zend outside of work at this point
<wrapids>
I'd like to see rails destroy php
<shevy>
not going to happen
<wrapids>
The frameworks are painful. At least zend is.
<shevy>
rails is too specialized
<wrapids>
shevy, How so?
<shevy>
ruby would have to compete with php directly for the www
<wrapids>
Why couldn't rails?
<shevy>
wrapids: rails forces you into a specific working mode
<shevy>
php does not really
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<shevy>
php is like the ultimate www glue
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<wrapids>
I don't see how any of the php frameworks are different than rails
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<shevy>
phpbb mediawiki ... i dont see any equivalents here
<Gurpartap>
i don't see how any of the frameworks are different from mvc
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<Gurpartap>
(in context of what wrapids said)
<Gurpartap>
hi all
<wrapids>
shevy, that's just a matter of the software hasn't been written.
<wrapids>
shevy, If rails grows in popularity, it will come
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<Gurpartap>
and then ruby will become the next php
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<shevy>
wrapids: rails has been popular since many years
<wrapids>
I'd like to see it happen personally. I'm not very capable with ruby at this point, but I have a fairly strong dislike for php at this point. That may just be magento at this point though.
<Hanmac>
Gurpartap: you could use ruby without rails, but you could not use php without php :P
<shevy>
but I just dont see any real replacement for mediawiki or phpbb. one replacement for trac that I see used more and more is redmine
<Hanmac>
imo mediawiki is not THAT bad
<wrapids>
shevy, I don't care. It's the community's fault. For instance spree vs magento.
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<Gurpartap>
Hanmac: i never talked about rails :p
<Gurpartap>
Hanmac: although in that context, it would be comparable to php frameworks like symphony etc
<wrapids>
If the features for spree were more robust on the business end magento would be phased out
<Gurpartap>
it's a messy discussion
<shevy>
if rails would be integrated into ruby, now that would change things :)
* Hanmac
thinks that he should write a wiki software in ruby
<apeiros_>
that'd make no sense
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<Gurpartap>
Hanmac: the ruby zombies will come for you
<Gurpartap>
since ruby community's all about making frameworks and letting individual developer make a wiki or forum out of it
<Gurpartap>
:p
<shevy>
one just has to look at the days when we did not have rubygems
<Gurpartap>
you know better
<Gurpartap>
meh
<shevy>
then in 1.8.x one had to do require 'rubygems'
<shevy>
nowadays it just works
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, Could you explain the making frameworks and letting individual developers statement a bit?
<wrapids>
I'm not familiar with ruby's conventions
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: the ruby community does not create one off packages that let you make a forum or wiki
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: what they make it the building blocks, which forms a framework in total
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: using these blocks, you can tube them together to form a wiki or anything desirable
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: that is why this community survives
<Gurpartap>
and of course, there's more to do in ruby than just work on/with frameworks
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, I was under the impression that rails essentially WAS the framework
<shevy>
my take is that rails does not make things really as simple as they ought to be
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: it's the most popular one, that's all
* Hanmac
could make a ruby forum software from nothing
<shevy>
Hanmac: on my todo list too!
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: if you have used drupal (php) in the past, you might realize that with each new version and the major modules, they want to abstract things into building blocks
<Hanmac>
shevy next to a ruby wiki?
<shevy>
there are two ways to climb a mountain
<shevy>
one is to prepare to walk over it, the other one is to be lazy, not train mountaineering and instead make the mountain smaller :P
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, My experience with web developoment is rather shallow, my framework experience is limited to zend at this point.
<shevy>
Hanmac: yeah!
<Gurpartap>
shevy would take the helicopter option
<Hanmac>
shevy c) elevator
<rking>
shevy: Federated Wikis are going to replace regular wikis, and BTW the reference server for it is in Sinatra
<shevy>
Hanmac: but many other things come first. I am rewriting my biggest ruby project still, I think it will take a few more days before I will make it a gem (for its first time btw, no idea how to do that yet, it's quite huge, I even split it into two separates projects with different concerns now)
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<shevy>
Gurpartap: yeah helicopter, but perhaps that option is too expensive
<shevy>
there are always tradeoffs
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: the community here wants to "program" everything
<shevy>
in ruby I want to be lazy
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: unlike in php where everything is programmed and you just have to go through an installation wizard putting in the mysql details etc
<Gurpartap>
anyone here wants to do a proof reading of my gem?
<Gurpartap>
*an unreleased gem*
<Gurpartap>
i need some opinions on the conventions i'm assuming/using
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, I don't see why. If you need a particular set of software, and the software exists to your needs. Why not just use it?
<wrapids>
Reinventing the weel is pointless.
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<wrapids>
wheel*
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<shevy>
Gurpartap: sure. can you use pastie.org just for one or two .rb files. and perhaps a link to the main docu?
<Hanmac>
shevy: how to get on a mountain: the ruby way: sitting on the back of a C-guy
<wrapids>
Unless you invent it better
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: yeah but i want to change the alloy material in that wheel
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: in that case editing a php project would suck
<shevy>
Hanmac: yeah. I like it too. I'd wish ruby could replace C one day too
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<Gurpartap>
wrapids: and if that php project has a framework underneath, which lets your edit using plugins/modules, then why not just learn from ruby (or something) and program yourself?
<wmoxam>
shevy: lol wat
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, Well take for example my previous one. Magento. That would be pointless.
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: what's pointless?
<Gurpartap>
magento is a fine software
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, No.
<Gurpartap>
sometimes you do need such packages
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, Don't you ever call it that.
<wrapids>
From the business end it's great. From the developer standpoint it's a total disaster
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<wrapids>
Which is why I'm here in #ruby
<Gurpartap>
shevy: there are 19 entries for lib/**/*.rb
<Gurpartap>
wrapids: that's what i have been saying :)
<Gurpartap>
some people want to get work done without programming
<wrapids>
Gurpartap, I may have misunderstood your statement then. Software like Magento is not a framework. It's essentially a finished package.
<Gurpartap>
ruby community has the least of such people
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<wrapids>
As far as that goes, you don't program in magento. You hack it and pray.
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<wrapids>
Gurpartap, If that's the case then what would be wrong with ^person^ creating a wiki software? I suppose that's what I'm confused about.
<shevy>
Gurpartap: hmm a bit too much to read it all... how about just one or two .rb files for me to look at and the main documentation?
<shevy>
or
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<shevy>
you make it a gem already, then I download it all and have a look, then I can give feedback
<shevy>
I am really lazy :P
<shevy>
wrapids: we need to be ambitious
<wrapids>
shevy, I don't see what that has to do with wiki software -.-
<shevy>
if ruby is to dethrone php it needs to (a) offer the same amount of quality working where php is strong at (I suppose only the www area) and (b) provide good alternatives to the lead showcase apps... phpbb mediawiki... dunno what else, probably a few more php frameworks
<shevy>
wrapids: well. there is nothing that really comes close to replace mediawiki
<wrapids>
Right. A good wiki software would do as such.
<Maher4Ever>
Hey there, I'm developing a ruby gem which would hopefully make it into 'guard/listen' (used in Guard and SASS). I'm curious what ruby developers think about it's API so could you please look at this gist I made: https://gist.github.com/3116933
<wrapids>
shevy, it's not just a matter of getting people to switch, it's a matter of getting new users. That's a matter of advertising and a great deal with the private sector.
<shevy>
wrapids: do you know TWiki? I hate that thing
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<shevy>
there was an even worse wiki years ago... phpwiki
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<wrapids>
shevy, Nope.
<shevy>
man that thing SUCKED...
<shevy>
TWiki is like mediawiki... 8 years ago hehe
<wrapids>
There's plenty of crappy php everything. There's just so much some of it has been good.
<wrapids>
Magento is turning a lot of us away from php ecommerce however.
<wrapids>
A few guys in #magento are doing some work with getting magento-type functionality put into spree to push it along.
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* Hanmac
could write a wiki in C
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<wrapids>
Trying to move something like 220 stores over at the moment.
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<wrapids>
We're all hoping it can make a difference of some kind and get people off of that trash softwar
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<shevy>
whoa I just noticed
<shevy>
TWiki is written in perl, or at least requires it
<shevy>
"Ensure that Perl 5 and the Perl CGI library are installed on your system. "
<shevy>
now I am no longer surprised that I dont like it at all
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<Hanmac>
"this software runs on ruby 1.8, but it could be more worse"
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<shevy>
lol
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<shevy>
I find ruby 1.8 much better than any perl
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<Maher4Ever>
Hanmac: I know, but I made this very quickly so I did it wrong. The gem takes care of replacing / to \ internally and \ to / when it reports the change to the user
<Hanmac>
it was my fault ... i thought it were "" strings
<Maher4Ever>
shevy: Great idea! I just wanted to get feedback from ruby devs about the options I listed below, which one do you prefer?
<Hanmac>
when you replace ther change.type.to_s with an hash or something, you could use i18n :P
<Hanmac>
Maher4Ever: does multible WDM::Monitor instances make sense?
<Mon_Ouie>
That's if you want to create a new string. If you want to mutate an existing string, it would be string << string_to_add
<wrapids>
Mon_Ouie, Thank you
<shevy>
wrapids: use <<, also for arrays.
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<shevy>
foo << 'lala'
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<wrapids>
shevy, To add a new element, or to append to an existing?
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<shevy>
both appends here
<shevy>
with += you create a new object
<shevy>
with << not
<wrapids>
Would string << addstring create string if it does not already exist?
<GarethAdams>
wrapids: no
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<wrapids>
doing something like string "" seems dirty, what would I want to do there?
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<GarethAdams>
wrapids: << isn't exclusive to strings, so it wouldn't know what to create
<shevy>
wrapids: << is a method call
<shevy>
your object has to exist for this to work
<ashp>
I'm hoping someone can help me with a bit of regexp - I have a file, /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key, and a regexp I'm using against it: /.*(ecdsa|rsa|dsa).*/
<shevy>
non_existing_bla += 'lala' would not work either if non_existing_bla is nil
<Mon_Ouie>
string += foo creates a new string because it expands to string = string + foo
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<ashp>
$1 only ever becomes dsa as it keeps going to the smallest match - is there a way I can make it more specific?
<Mon_Ouie>
i.e. it changes the objects the string variable references
<shevy>
wrapids: your objects must exist, before you can invoke a method on them
<ashp>
I want to effecitvely say "stop at first match."
<wrapids>
I've basically got while line = file.gets append line to string
<Mon_Ouie>
ashp: That's because .* is greedy, use .*?
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<shevy>
wrapids: I hate while loops :)
<Mon_Ouie>
Or just use /ecdsa|rsa|dsa/, actually
<shevy>
only for loops are worse
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<wrapids>
shevy, I'm unaware of the alternatives.
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<GarethAdams>
wrapids: is `file` an actual File? as in, on disk?
<wrapids>
GarethAdams, yes.
<GarethAdams>
wrapids: then just file.read
<ashp>
Mon_Ouie: If I just use /ecdsa|rsa|dsa does it set $1 to the entire match?
<shevy>
wrapids: I dunno what you do. I use loop { user_input = gets.chomp } usually. or, actually, I put this into a method, where I then decide what to do. if the argument given is a file, then I can read that one in
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<GarethAdams>
wrapids: that will give you the whole file as a string
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<Mon_Ouie>
ashp: No, but you don't have to use a capture group. You can get the entire match directly.
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<wrapids>
GarethAdams, That is what I will do for this then.
<wrapids>
shevy, What terminates that loop?
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<ashp>
Mon_Ouie: How do I refer to the entire match? that's what I'm unsure about
<Mon_Ouie>
You can use string[regexp]
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<habib>
hey
<Mon_Ouie>
Or the $& variable (but I had to search for its name, so I'd recommend the former, clearer solution :p)
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<habib>
what ruby ide do u use in linux?
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<habib>
exept vim
<ashp>
Mon_Ouie: Sorry if I'm just being dumb, http://pastebin.com/Gzt46FXF is the code in question. What I'm trying to do is a regexp on the file and then use that to build a sshkey variable
<Hanmac>
habib i use eclipse for my bindings
<habib>
what is bindings?
<ashp>
Mon_Ouie: so I'd do the if file =~ etc, then use it again later like Facter.add(file[/regexp/]) or something?
<GarethAdams>
Mon_Ouie: $& is also called $MATCH, but avoiding the globals is still better
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<Mon_Ouie>
GarethAdams: Is it? $MATCH is nil here
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<shevy>
wrapids: I usually use break for that
<Hanmac>
habib c++ bindlings from c++ libs
<Mon_Ouie>
And I'm pretty sure there's no alias, since rb_protect(eval_code, Qnil, &error);
<GarethAdams>
oh, http://ruby.runpaint.org/globals lists it as method-local which I'm guessing means inside the block of a gsub, for example
<GarethAdams>
but yes that's a technicality, not a style guide
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<Mon_Ouie>
It's odd that some of those special variables are aliased in core, and some aren't
<Mon_Ouie>
(e.g. $LOAD_PATH is in core)
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<shevy>
hmmmmm
<habib>
Hanmac, can i use it for pure ruby coding?
<shevy>
why do they not want to provide all english aliases already?
<shevy>
I can never remember in the slightest what $& means
<shevy>
perhaps they thought that $LOAD_PATH is much more important than the other variable names
<Hanmac>
habib you could use it too (after you add the plugins for ruby)
<habib>
Hanmac, thnx.
<habib>
Hanmac, how do i install ruby plugin for eclipse?
<Hanmac>
Menu->Help->Install new Software-> select Source, and then type ruby in the search field
<shevy>
whoa
<shevy>
an eclipse user :)
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<habib>
hey how do i install ruby plugin for eclipse?
<shevy>
ack
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<wrapids>
I'm liking this quite a bit so far
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<habib>
does anyone use eclipse for ruby coding?
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<seanstickle>
Hell no
<seanstickle>
That's like using a cat for helicopter
<habib>
ok i'll use gedit then
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<Hanmac>
habib didnt i say to you how you install plugins?
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<wrapids>
seanstickle, Hey, don't knock eclipse.
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<seanstickle>
I am knocking eclipse
<seanstickle>
It's a piece of shit
<seanstickle>
I knock it!
<wrapids>
seanstickle, Any particular reason?
<seanstickle>
Almost probably.
<wrapids>
habib, Go to help, install new software, all available sites and add ruby to the filter.
<seanstickle>
habib: look forward to help from about 2 or 3 people in a community of thousands if you use Eclipse.
<seanstickle>
Or use vim or emacs and have the help of a world of good programmers
<seanstickle>
:)
<wrapids>
lol@ vim/emacs
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<wrapids>
habib, Feel free to use whatever IDE/editor you feel most comfortable with.
<seanstickle>
That's ok, I am laughing at the prospect of someone using a bloated Java-based local IDE that sucks up memory and scatters tons of "project" files around just to edit some text.
<seanstickle>
Well, of course he is free to use what he wants.
<seanstickle>
It's not like he needs us to tell him that
<seanstickle>
"Feel free" habib !
<seanstickle>
You *are* free
<seanstickle>
Which doesn't obviate people's desire to ask for opinions and assistance
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<wrapids>
seanstickle, Ugh so bloated. This isn't some long ago era where software like eclipse is going to make a difference in a put together dev environment. It's like driving out of your way to save 10 cents on gas. My time is worth more than vim.
<seanstickle>
wrapids: Feel free to use what you like
<seanstickle>
:P
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
I dont like eclipse either
<shevy>
but to say the alternative is vim and emacs is also annoying
<mdszy>
Neither do I.
<shevy>
there ought to exist a level of software between these extremes
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<mdszy>
shevy: There kind of is. Things like Notepad++
<seanstickle>
ed?
<mdszy>
Or Gedit or Geany.
<shevy>
mdszy: well notepad++ is ok... I also like geany... bluefish ... sublime...
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* mdszy
shrugs, prefers his Vim.
<ctor>
vim ftw
<seanstickle>
I suppose ed would be even more extreme
<seanstickle>
Which makes Vim a nice mean
<mdszy>
I tried using emacs. Then discovered it is impossible to get line numbers without writing a boatload of stuff in lisp.
<Hanmac>
seanstickle show me another IDE that could manage +100files with syntaxhighlighting, method completion, and with git & hg support
<shevy>
see, that's my gripe too
<shevy>
emacs is centered around lisp
<shevy>
vim centered around its pseudo language
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<shevy>
I want ruby! :(
<mdszy>
yep.
<seanstickle>
Hanmac: well, I've done that with Vim
<mdszy>
Plus, my left arrow key doesn't work.
<seanstickle>
Hanmac: so I suppose that's the one I would show you
<shevy>
lol
<mdszy>
So I really need vim for the cursor movements XD
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<ctor>
Do you use vim macros?
<Hanmac>
yeah ..."open 100 files with vim and dont lose the orientation - unpayable"
<shevy>
I want something closer to an IDE level, without being an IDE. something like a merger of sublime and geany ... but extendible in ruby too... and ideally more features too... while still not being an IDE!
<GarethAdams>
shevy: textmate snippets and bundles are mainly written in Ruby
<seanstickle>
Hanmac: you're opening 100 files at once?
<seanstickle>
Hanmac: maybe you're just not very good at what you do
<shevy>
I am stuck with linux mostly :(
<shevy>
I tried to go back to windows... but it is too horrible
<Hanmac>
no, but but i need to jump fast between that many files
<shevy>
GarethAdams: I keep on hearing good things about textmate though
<ctor>
Windows is no fun to dev on. I even find my current windows IDE just points to remote servers
<seanstickle>
Oh, I just use smart complete and open up the hfiles I want
<seanstickle>
When I need them
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<shevy>
a bit overkill just to get a mac for an editor IMO
<seanstickle>
But I suppose if you need some IDE to accommodate a broken workflow, you're welcome to use Eclipse
<shevy>
seanstickle: what do you use? vim?
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<seanstickle>
shevy: ya
<shevy>
interesting, most people here seem to use vim. only few emacsers
<seanstickle>
shevy: I have tried (and continue to try) emacs
<Kwpolska>
long time vim user here.
<shevy>
hehe
<Mon_Ouie>
I sometimes do have 100+ files open — because I just never restart Emacs.
<seanstickle>
shevy: something just doesn't click
<seanstickle>
shevy: I think it's the orthogonal orientation to Unix
<Hanmac>
seanstickle: did you write an ruby ext as a binding from an c++ lib?
<seanstickle>
Where Vim is quite aligned with Unix
<ctor>
Whoa. A sub$300 42'' LCD is today's woot. That would make for a sick tri-monitor setup
<seanstickle>
Hanmac: not that I remember
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<shevy>
seanstickle: hehe I heard that someone say on #vim a few days ago too. he was using emacs, but annoyed at something. then he said that emacs does not care much about the UNIX philosophy
<shevy>
I think it was something with his mobile... he was connected to IRC with emacs or something like that
<seanstickle>
shevy: a popular sentiment, I think
<shevy>
ctor: you are on windows?
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<ctor>
shevy: I'm on Windows, CentOS and OSX. I have multiple machines running
<ctor>
Windows is my primary machine, with SSH opened to the CentOS box if I need to dev
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<shevy>
cool
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<shevy>
I keep on wondering what I ought to do in order to return to windows
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<shevy>
my gripe is that the default workflow on windows is very annoying for me
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<shevy>
I'd like to use windows more as a development-station
<shevy>
but it feels much more like an office-suite or gaming-platform...
<seanstickle>
shevy: Maybe with Windows 8
<seanstickle>
shevy: you can use MetroVim
<Kwpolska>
seanstickle: what is that?
<seanstickle>
Kwpolska: Windows 8?
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<seanstickle>
Kwpolska: the next version of Windows
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<Kwpolska>
seanstickle: no, metrovim.
<Kwpolska>
seanstickle: I know what Windows 8 is and I know it is a piece of shit.
<seanstickle>
Kwpolska: Vim done in the Metro framework thing
<Kwpolska>
seanstickle: any links?
<seanstickle>
Kwpolska: Nope
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<seanstickle>
You don't get this thing we call "humor" do you?
<seanstickle>
Perhaps on your planet it is outlawed
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<shevy>
man
<shevy>
metrovim sounds gay
<shevy>
but yeah, win 8 looks totally like "hey, web apps are cool, we at microsoft jump on the train rather than innovate anything. we have become a copy-cat."
<shevy>
as long as ruby will work on it I dont mind too much
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<seanstickle>
Doesn't work on iOS either
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<seanstickle>
That's an interesting change by Matz
<seanstickle>
What's the reasoning there?
<amacgregor_osx>
can anyone recommend me some good tutorials for building non rails apps ?
<seanstickle>
By non-Rails apps, you mean Ruby apps in general?
<seanstickle>
Or something else
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<amacgregor_osx>
yup ruby apps in general, trying to figure out how to create an app properly
<amacgregor_osx>
seanstickle: specially since what I'm building is too large to place in a single file
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<mdszy>
amacgregor_osx: Learn about changing the loadpath, and then you'll be able to `require` other files into one.
<mdszy>
you might also want to make a gem
<Hanmac>
use a text editor, add a shebang line, add an exceutable flag to the file and finish ... you created a ruby app
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<amacgregor_osx>
Hanmac: lol
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<amacgregor_osx>
mdszy: thank you, yeah right now is a bit of a mess how I'm loading my config.yml and the models that I need to use
<abstrusenick>
anyone familiar with nginx?
<abstrusenick>
why doesn't proxy cache support byte range request?
<abstrusenick>
the nginx channel is like so dead
<amacgregor_osx>
mdszy: is there a way to have one single file where I load all the gems that my app requires ? Instead of having to add the require 'gem_name' to each class?
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<seanstickle>
amacgregor_osx: look into Bundler
<mdszy>
^
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<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: just stick to a basic, simple layout
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<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: for instance, a lib/ dir, then the name-of-the-app dir, and a name-of-the-app.rb file at the same level of that named dir
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<shevy>
in name-of-the-app.rb you just load the components you need
<shevy>
then others can require your app my doing require 'name-of-the-app-here'
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<shevy>
like foo.rb
<shevy>
require 'foo'
<amacgregor_osx>
shevy: thank that is exactly what I'm looking for
<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: I think it becomes much easier for you if you try that on your own
<shevy>
or, look at some other .gem how the developers did that
<shevy>
often you will find a spec/ directory too
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<shevy>
or test/
<shevy>
sometimes bin/ too, but not that often
<shevy>
I still dont know what to do with documentation... should I put that into its own directory?
<shevy>
like README...
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<shevy>
I kinda don't like to have docu files scattered on the base level
<shevy>
but what directory to create otherwise? docu/ ? documentation/ ? hmmmmm
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<Kwpolska>
shevy: I use /docs/.
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<amacgregor_osx>
shevy: so on my lib/myapp.rb file I would add all the requires for my gems and any initialization configuration needed, while on lib/myapp/ I would have subdirs for models,etc ? and then I would have on my root folder application.rb I can do require 'myapp'
<amacgregor_osx>
is that correct or I'm getting confussed?
<Hanmac>
use require_relative
<shevy>
Kwpolska: hmm.
<shevy>
who else uses docs/ ?
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<kapowaz>
So, I've recently upgraded to Lion and irb has lost history and tab-completion — any ideas why?
<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: not needed. you can decide actually. I myself use lib/myapp.rb to load another .rb file, which then does the real require work
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<shevy>
sometimes I even make a require/ directory to put in .rb files there which only load other files
<shevy>
and then lib/myapp.rb would require the main .rb file there.
<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: I dont really have one single standard right now either :)
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<amacgregor_osx>
shevy: interesting, by any chance would you have examples of those setup ? maybe a github project?
<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: most important thing to remember is to try to see that require 'name' works for your project
<shevy>
sometimes project like bundler break that. require 'bundler' alone does not work for me for instance
<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: hehehe not yet! I am rewriting that project right now
<amacgregor_osx>
cool
<shevy>
I could make it an incomplete gem right now perhaps...
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<amacgregor_osx>
:)
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<amacgregor_osx>
this is the first weekend in a while that I had time to do some ruby coding ... really nice chance after working with PHP and Magento for weeks
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<Hanmac>
... shevy what did you break? require 'bundler' works for me
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<shevy>
require 'bundler'
<shevy>
NoMethodError: undefined method `root' for Bundler:Module
<shevy>
amacgregor_osx: I dont have a good example right now, but try this: gem install pry
<shevy>
then go to the cache/ dir
<shevy>
lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1/cache/
<shevy>
for instance
<shevy>
cd /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1/cache/
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<shevy>
(depends on your ruby version)
<amacgregor_osx>
shevy: cool
<shevy>
there you will find pry*.gem
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<shevy>
you can unextract it via: gem unpack pry*.gem
<shevy>
then go to that directory and look around at the structure
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<workmad3>
shevy: no
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<workmad3>
self.name= calls the name= method, @name = assigns the ivar directly
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<workmad3>
in the case of that initializer, it's just using the attr_accessor in that situation... but that can change
<vectorshelve>
shevy: given http://pastie.org/4255070 to be the problem I decided to go with product.rb has product name and rate then recipet_line_item would have product and quantity and reciept will have list of reciept_line_item
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: seems pretty reasonably organised to me tbh
<shevy>
workmad3: oh yeah good point
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<vectorshelve>
shevy: but the tax calculation part is confusing... i dont know why that guy has 3 separate classes for it.. we can have it all as methods in a single class ryt ?
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<vectorshelve>
shevy: I could have two attribute is_imported and is_tax_applicable
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<shevy>
no idea at all
<shevy>
other people's code often confuses me a lot
<vectorshelve>
shevy: me too
<shevy>
I really think his style focuses on classes a lot
<shevy>
sometimes my own, older code confuses me too :)
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: looks like he's going for a strategy pattern to allow an open-closed system
<vectorshelve>
workmad3: hmm... is it better to do as I mentioned above ?.
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: really depends
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: if I thought this was a standalone bit of code... possibly
<vectorshelve>
workmad3: they give importance to design patterns and oops concepts
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<shevy>
yah well
<vectorshelve>
workmad3: it is.. for a given problem
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: if it was part of a larger system, I would be looking for context from that
<shevy>
it is like napoleon fighting on the battlefield against julius caesar
<shevy>
both use different patterns
<vectorshelve>
shevy: hmm
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: and if it was for an interview exercise, I would want to demonstrate that I knew design considerations
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: and that gives a different set of concerns to just doing it for a small tool
<vectorshelve>
workmad3: yeah..
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: basically you need to be able to defend your design though
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<workmad3>
vectorshelve: and be able to show that you've taken considerations like exempt items, different taxable rates, etc. into account
<Hanmac>
shevy: for the TaxWorks::Product i would use an Stuct
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<vectorshelve>
workmad3: is there solutions which doesnt come under any defined patterns as such ?
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: there's an infinite number of solutions
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: trying to find the 'best' one is an infinite trawl and you'll never finish
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: you just need to come up with one that you can defend
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: and that's *your* job, not ours
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<workmad3>
vectorshelve: even brain-dead naive solutions are fine, if you can defend them in your context
<vectorshelve>
workmad3: thanks man :)
<workmad3>
(it's all about context :) )
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<workmad3>
vectorshelve: hell, even considerations like who is going to maintain the code, or other team members, drives what is a good design
<vectorshelve>
workmad3: ok ok
<workmad3>
vectorshelve: for example, I'd probably be more tempted into a design-pattern heavy solution with strategies and factories when I know I'm looking at more java background people, as opposed to more metaprogramming, modules and mixins when looking at a more ruby background
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<workmad3>
vectorshelve: it's also what makes coming into an IRC channel and asking 'is design X good and design Y bad' annoying, impossible to answer and basically nonsensical
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<workmad3>
vectorshelve: additionally, it's why in order to understand a design, you need to examine the context that drove it into existence
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<Jackneill>
hi
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<Jackneill>
if i have require_relative "irc" and in irc.rb class Irc, and in that file where i have the require.. Sender < Irc how can i get unintialized constant Irc?
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<workmad3>
Jackneill: I wouldn't trust that the 'require_relative "sender" ' in irc.rb isn't going to cause weirdness
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<Jackneill>
thats just because sender needs stuff from irc, and irc needs stuff from sender
<workmad3>
Jackneill: yeah... I'd sort that out
<workmad3>
Jackneill: cyclic dependencies like that are almost never either actually required or a good idea
<Hanmac>
put require_relative "sender" at the end of irc.rb
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<Jackneill>
Hanmac: it works
<Jackneill>
thanks :)
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* Hanmac
gains exp
<workmad3>
Jackneill: also, it's a bit weird... Sender is a subclass of Irc, and Irc creates an instance of Sender (so in essence, an instance of itself) on construction...
<Hanmac>
workmad3 you are right ... thats an loop with full the RAM :P
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: well, the initialize of Irc doesn't get called automatically because Sender has its own initialize
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: so it shouldn't cause an infinite recursion... but it's still a big boatload of odd :)
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<Jackneill>
workmad3: the parent class' initialize just called with super keyword isnt it?
<workmad3>
Jackneill: yes, but it's still a very strange design for a class to require an instance of a subclass of itself in order to work...
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<Jackneill>
yep, im getting started so i need more experience :(
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<workmad3>
Jackneill: and if you add a super call into your sender class's initialize (or remove it completely) then you'll have an infinite recursion issue
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<Jackneill>
:)
<workmad3>
Jackneill: my suspicion is that you have a bad split of responsibilities if this is the way you need to get things working
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<Jackneill>
ok
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<mdszy>
make
<mdszy>
whoops, derp
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<davidcelis>
^C
<mdszy>
color
<mdszy>
That's what ^C does for me :>
<mdszy>
^C + irssi color code + text
<davidcelis>
WHAT SHELL ARE YOU ON
<mdszy>
irssi XD
<mdszy>
not in my shell XD
<davidcelis>
^C should quit
<mdszy>
It's handled separately by irssi
<mdszy>
I can just do /quit
<mdszy>
or ^Z + kill %1
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<minijupe>
I've developed in RoR for 3 years, but I'm getting a bit tired of making web applications. Can anyone recommend a starting point for discover what other types of development that can be done with ruby?
<minijupe>
apart from web apps, what is Ruby often used for, and what markets are out there?
<apeiros_>
minijupe: do what everybody did 5y ago - write an irc bot
<apeiros_>
do what twitter did - write a message service (yes, yes, it can have an http backend, doesn't really need to)
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<minijupe>
are any desktop apps written in ruby?
<apeiros_>
limechat was
<apeiros_>
there are a couple of macruby apps afaik, don't know which, though.
<minijupe>
I love working with ruby, I'm just starting to explore what other kids of work I could do with ruby apart from web apps. Any resource recommendations?
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<Tasser>
minijupe, ruby is mac or web. choose your poison.
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<Tasser>
minijupe, kde got some nice ruby bindings last time I checked...
<minijupe>
Tasser: what kind of things are being done with ruby / mac?
<Tasser>
minijupe, no idea, I'm a linux guy.
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<Tasser>
minijupe, you could also jump to another language :-)
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<Mon_Ouie>
Yeah, there are Qt and KDE bindings for Ruby
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<minijupe>
Tasser: true. Just wondering what's out there where ruby really shines, or is at least useful. I recently started looking into Arduino micro-controller programming, but no Ruby there :(
<oddmunds>
minijupe: it shines on the command line
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<minijupe>
Here's another take on the same question. Does anyone here work with ruby professionally, but not making web apps?
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<Tasser>
minijupe, I heard of manveru doing some things with ruby and tk (he's written his own ffi-tk)
<Mon_Ouie>
does it have to be professionally? I haven't done any web-related stuff, but I did do stuff in Ruby — e.g. playing with OpenGL
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<minijupe>
Mon_Ouie: not necessarily, but I'm brainstorming how to expand the types of projects I can work in. If I have to learn other languages, that's fine, but I'm first exploring what's possible in Ruby, which I've spent the last 3/4 years in.
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<maxwellE>
Anyone here a pro about linux processes and ruby?
<apeiros_>
mksm: it doesn't finish - you mean you haven't waited long enough? :)
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<apeiros_>
btw., `while not i == 1_000_000` <-- fugly
<apeiros_>
until i == 1_000_000
<apeiros_>
or just 1_000_000.times do …
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<kyle__>
Does the standard ruby zip library have a way of reading data from a zipfile into memory (a variable) instead of dumping it to a file first? I'm digging through the docs and I can't see a way.
<apeiros_>
mksm: works fine for me. I replaced that 1_000_000 with 10
<fowl>
what? ruby comes with a zip library?
<apeiros_>
only gzip afaik
<kyle__>
fowl: either that or I gem installed it at some point without thinking... It's the library that comes up when you require 'zip'.
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<kyle__>
apeiros_: zlib I'm down with :) that library is incredibly streightforward to work with.
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<mksm>
apeiros_: if you replace the limit with 100_000 it finishes almost instantly. I've waited ~30secs with 1_000_000 and nothing
<kyle__>
fowl: It's pretty easy to use this zip library, but it wants to dump the file to disc, which i then have to re-read as uncompressed data.
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<apeiros_>
mksm: well, if you replace it with 10_000, it takes about 2s, so it'd probably be ~3min20s with 1e6
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<apeiros_>
(for me, that is, don't know, maybe your machine is even slower…)
<fowl>
mksm, print('.') if i % 1000 == 0
<mksm>
right, one sec
<apeiros_>
fowl: don't forget the flush/sync
<kyle__>
if you want speed in ruby, you either come up with a better algorithm, or write it as a C extension.
<apeiros_>
mksm: ^
<kyle__>
The second option is often easier actually.
<apeiros_>
kyle__: dunno, option 1 usually saves me from option 2
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<apeiros_>
the common reason for option 2 for me is usually not even performance, but memory footprint
<kyle__>
apeiros_: Except when you realize you're already using a pretty good one :)
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<kyle__>
apeiros_: Oooh good point.
<apeiros_>
kyle__: maybe your "good one" isn't that good then :-p
<apeiros_>
but who knows
<apeiros_>
maybe your scenarios just differ from mine, and you really need it more often
<kyle__>
apeiros_: It's mostly for when I'm doing things in ruby that really should be done in another language. Like writing a ray-tracer.
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<apeiros_>
ok. I can see a raytracer in ruby being hilariously slow :)
<apeiros_>
audio-processing in pure ruby isn't the real deal either
<kyle__>
apeiros_: It was :) but it wasn't as painfully bad as I thought it would be. It beat out some poorly written C# implementations I've seen.
<apeiros_>
print "#{i}." <-- wtf? :)
<apeiros_>
the idea of the . is that you get a line of dots
<apeiros_>
just `puts i` if you want i to be included…
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<mksm>
I understood what fowl suggested ... the "." there is just to separated the numbers
<apeiros_>
mksm: yes of course
<apeiros_>
one thread will increase it to 100_000
<apeiros_>
the next to 100_001
<apeiros_>
and for no other thread will it ever be == 100_000 anymore :-p
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<apeiros_>
mksm: remember, your Thread.exclusive is not covering the loop condition. so it's entirely possible that many threads already passed the loop condition and are waiting for their turn to get the exclusive lock
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<maxwellE>
Anyone here a pro about linux processes and ruby?
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<mksm>
apeiros_: *sigh*, true
<fowl>
mksm, the outputting . lets you know that its still working
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<fowl>
i dunno if you already had output i didnt see it/dont remember it
<apeiros_>
he didn't
<fowl>
maxwellE, whats the question? use IO.popen if you need to communicate between processes
<maxwellE>
fowl: its more a question about ps output from a ruby daemon
<maxwellE>
fowl: ps output is saying the ruby process has run for 1 min when the daemon has been running for days
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<fowl>
maxwellE, ps time doesnt seem to work for me ive been running pry for a couple days and it says 0:00:00
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<maxwellE>
fowl: strange, this script uses waitr-webdriver and my firefox run time is massive but the ruby run time is so small
<apeiros_>
mksm: concurrency is hard… you sure you need it? :)
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<fowl>
says xfwm has been running for 16 minutes, more like a day or so
<apeiros_>
(serious question - remember, you'll only be able to make use of it if your problem is IO bound - or if you use jruby)
<heftig>
or rubinius
<apeiros_>
afaik they're still on GIL
<apeiros_>
only head doesn't
<maxwellE>
yes
<maxwellE>
fowl: yes
<maxwellE>
fowl: is this just a ruby issue?
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<mksm>
apeiros_: yep, but atm i'm trying to compare Thread.exclusive/Mutex
<fowl>
maxwellE, i would say that ps' time is inaccurate
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<mksm>
hmmm, the 1.9.3 source for Thread.exclusive says it uses a mutex internally
<apeiros_>
mksm: Thread.exclusive is something you really never should use. only if you build your own concurrency primitives. or really really know what you're doing.
<apeiros_>
mksm: of course it has to. rubys threads are built on os/native threads
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<maxwellE>
fowl: Thank for the help man, I will stop worrying
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<blownapart>
fowl: hey fowl remember me, varreli?
<fowl>
hows it goin gramps
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<blownapart>
good glad you remember the important things. you doing alright?
<fowl>
:d
<fowl>
:D yea
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<blownapart>
fowl: cool I gave up ruby after someone told me I needed 10000 hours of study to be worth a damn.
<fowl>
well the only real losers are quitters
<fowl>
im disappointed
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<blownapart>
fowl: sorry it was something other stuff that coincided with that, that put me off it...but the main thing is that you are thriving.
<blownapart>
some other stuff, that is.
<blownapart>
you can see fowl that my name is now Napolean blownapart.
<fowl>
lol
<blownapart>
fowl: who was the guy living in Kathmandu Nepal?
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<mksm>
apeiros_: what i mean is that it's using the Mutex class. My point is that some time ago, Thread/Queue relied on Thread.critical and now they're using Mutex.
<fowl>
i dont know
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<mksm>
well ... not some time ago, more like 6 years ago :/
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<blownapart>
fowl: thanks I'll figure it out. I have really basic questions re: the setup of osX term: to create a symlink to sublime2 text editor.
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<blownapart>
fowl: btw like a true geezer I forgot a vast chunk of ruby.
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<apeiros_>
mksm: as said, it has to. with native threads, Thread.critical doesn't work that well anymore.
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<ravoly_90>
Hello
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<fowl>
if it is like linux' symlinks its `ln -s /path/to/subl /where/to/put/the/symlink`
<ravoly_90>
I am new to programming and I use Ubuntu, should I install ruby via apt-get or the installer on the website?
<fowl>
ravoly_90, its recommended to use a version manager such as rvm, rbenv or rbfu
<ravoly_90>
fowl: which is the correct method for later upgrades when new versions hit the road?
<ravoly_90>
rvm, rbenv, rbfu
<fowl>
ravoly_90, they all support having multiple versions of ruby installed
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<ravoly_90>
fowl: I am looking for an easy way to install/update my ruby interpreter once needed
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<apeiros_>
ravoly_90: `curl -L https://get.rvm.io | bash -s stable --ruby` then `rvm install ruby-1.9.3`, then `rvm docs generate`
<ravoly_90>
apeiros_: super cool :D
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<apeiros_>
to update your ruby, you can either just `rvm install NEWERRUBY`, or use the rvm upgrade command.
<blownapart>
fowl: et al hey echo $PATH tells me that my path is: "/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/git/bin:/usr/X11/bin" can that be right?
<blownapart>
fowl: can that be right?
<fowl>
looks right to me
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<fowl>
im not an osx user though
<ravoly_90>
apeiros_: thanks man, note saved
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<apeiros_>
ravoly_90: yw, also #rvm is usually very helpful, should you run into problems
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<ravoly_90>
apeiros_: once I am done installing I 'll keep #rvm in mind
<blownapart>
fowl: et al. thanks. if you have time, this is what the tutorial says to do: ln -s "/Applications/Sublime Text 2.app/Contents/SharedSupport/bin/subl" ~/bin/subl ....provided that bin is in my path. But I don't how to do much in terminal, so provided that I have the app in applications, how much of that command do I use?
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<fowl>
do ln -s "/Applications/Sublime Text 2.app/Contents/SharedSupport/bin/subl" /usr/local/bin/subl since /usr/local/bin is in your path
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<blownapart>
fowl: so I use quotes in term?
<fowl>
yes because the sublime path has spaces in it
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<blownapart>
got it. thanks I'll try it fowl
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<ddbt-nl>
is rubinius similar to facebooks hiphop for php?
<apeiros_>
no
<apeiros_>
quite the opposite actually
<apeiros_>
it's ruby implemented in (as much) ruby (as possible)
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<ddbt-nl>
then how should i understand both projects?
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<apeiros_>
don't know what you're asking for
<blownapart>
fowl: still on fowl?
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<blownapart>
hi all newbie (returned) very basic question: how to set up my path for a symlink for sublime2 editor. thanks, details at: http://pastie.org/4263166
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