ljarvis changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p547: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<freedrull> is maybe a refactoring not worth it if the diff stat says you added as many lines of code as you removed ... :\
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<oddmunds> well, by line count alone it is not worse, at least
<maloik_> if you turned a 1000 line class into multiple classes totalling 1000 lines of code, or a single method into multiple ones... it's probably worth it
<maloik_> line count really is not the right thing to go on
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<yorickpeterse> morning kids
<oddmunds> good morning, gramps
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<Savtech> Hello! I've got some experience as a contractual full stack developer and have utilized exclusively the LAMP stack for my past projects. I've decided I'd like to jump into the ruby world so I've acquired a few books and have begun going over the material (loving what I see so far). The only thing really on my mind about moving forward with my learning process is whether or not it would be...
<Savtech> ...beneficial to learn basic ruby first and transition into learning the rails framework or simply jump in and start developing rails apps from the get go? Like I said before I have a working knowledge of general programming practices and mainly am just easing into ruby's syntax. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
<ddv> Savtech: You should probably learn ruby first
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<ddv> Savtech: but most people learn both because they started with rails
<ddv> Savtech: You can learn Ruby (the syntax) in a day (easy to learn, hard to master).
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<ddv> Savtech: Learning the api/rails can take years though
<Savtech> Are there many idioms that differ between normal ruby and rails? Can you point me to a repository that displays how a normal ruby program might look compared to a rails application?
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<yorickpeterse> That's extremely hard to answer
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<yorickpeterse> It varies greatly between programmers, perhaps a good starting point would be https://github.com/bbatsov/ruby-style-guide
<Sphynx> im used to working with codeigniter, you think it will still take me years to master rails?
<Savtech> Perhaps an easier question would be "If I'm going to be developing modern web applications is it logical to spend ample time to learn the ins and outs of ruby or would it be in my best interest to begin with rails straight away and learn only what I need along the way?". Is there a real benefit to utilizing ruby by itself when focusing on web development?
<yorickpeterse> Sphynx: that's equally hard to answer, it depends on how fast you can learn/adapt
<yorickpeterse> Savtech: learn both along the way
<yorickpeterse> But yes, knowing Ruby well helps a lot
<Sphynx> im reasonably proficient in ruby already
<Sphynx> but i should use their style more, as im used to php
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<Savtech> I have a couple ruby books already, one aimed towards a beginner with no programming experience at all and another that is focused on a more intermediate level with the language so I'll knock those out and then look for a good rails book, any suggestions in that regard?
<Sphynx> uhm
<Sphynx> i had a guide from beginner to master
<Sphynx> with good book titles / videos
<yorickpeterse> Writing more Ruby is the best way to learn
<yorickpeterse> Books/videos only help so much
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<Sphynx> there
<Sphynx> all you need to know in one guide
<Savtech> Well it's mostly a matter of learning the 'ruby way' for me, I have almost a decade of programming experience in other technologies
<badeball> if you are a fan of uncle bob and his opinion of clean architecture ("web should be a plugin") (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asLUTiJJqdE), then I believe that you should definitely learn ruby first without using rails
<badeball> however, with ddh's recent rants, that's not cool anymore
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<yorickpeterse> dhh is a tool in that regard
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<yorickpeterse> He drives race cars and works on Basecamp, that's about it as far as I Know
<yorickpeterse> * know
<badeball> yorickpeterse: +1
<zenspider> pretty much do the opposite of dhh and you'll be good
<Savtech> Well I appreciate the input guys, I'll probably hang around this room regularly
<Savtech> Anybody have some interesting projects that a ruby newbie could help out with?
<yorickpeterse> Hm, I vaguely recall some website where projects could list that they needed help
<yorickpeterse> But I forgot the name
<oddmunds> Savtech: you should also keep in mind that Rails is not the only Ruby web framework
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<Savtech> I've noticed that, just seems to be the most popular
<oddmunds> I've never used Rails, because all my web projects has been tiny utilities where Sinatra has been more than enough.
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<Savtech> I'm pretty well versed with CakePhp but also know code igniter, laravel, and symfony. I've always considered the jack of all trades route to be the best route to take but focusing on one tool over others allows you to fall back on a more robust skill set if need be
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<oddmunds> if your ambition is to be a full stack developer where the stack includes ruby, i think you should at least be able to tell the ruby from the rails
<oddmunds> which isn't always so easy with rails
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<oddmunds> (speaking from my experience trying to learn ruby through rails)
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<Savtech> I like that view point oddmunds
<Savtech> Who of you are currently full time ruby developers?
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<oddmunds> i am a full time developer, but mainly java/scala at the moment, i write scripts and tools in ruby
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<sluukkonen> I do mainly Java as well, but it depends on the project
<badeball> Savtech: full time ruby here
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<sluukkonen> (We do consultancy, so it depends on the customer. Maybe they already have an existing system in $language that they want to extend.)
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<yorickpeterse> yissss, got my homer simpson slippers
<yorickpeterse> casually cruising around the office with them
<yorickpeterse> there's a customer in the meeting room
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<maloik_> I'd probably trip over those all the time
<maloik_> massive slippers are massive
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<yorickpeterse> learn to walk you peasant
<yorickpeterse> These are my personal Seven league boots
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<maloik_> I'm not a peasant, if I was I'd be running around in wooden clogs
<maloik_> and I'd be having the same problem
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<yorickpeterse> MySQL: where changing varchar(255) to int(11) cuts down query times by 10000%
<yorickpeterse> (in combination with an index that is)
<dorei> i think in most rdbms int is really faster than varchar
<yorickpeterse> True, but with an index on top of it you'd expect it to be semi-reasonable
<yorickpeterse> At least Pg can do that as far as I know
<yorickpeterse> Then again Pg is a real database
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<yorickpeterse> opposed to this Duplo thing called MySQL
<dorei> mysql is sort of a joke
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<dorei> at least latest versions really support foreign keys (query optimizer uses them to determine best strategy for the query excecution)
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<yorickpeterse> if only Ruby could scale this well
* yorickpeterse runs
* yorickpeterse trips over his Homer slippers
<maloik_> :D
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<yorickpeterse> ok I can't walk around the office with these slippers while also keeping a straight face
<yorickpeterse> Still waiting for one of my bosses to tell me to stop wearing them
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<yorickpeterse> Is there a particular name (or even better, RFC), for Email addresses formatted as "Alice McSchnitzel" <alicemcschnitzel@gmail.com> ?
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<yorickpeterse> Right now I'm just calling it "formatted_email" but I'm not sure about the name
<DefV> I use the same name
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<yorickpeterse> hmm
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<jhass> yorickpeterse: I think one of the SMTP RFCs specifies it. There's http://rubydoc.info/gems/mail/Mail/Address
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, that class just calls it #to_s
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<jhass> calling it without an argument and then using the setters will encode everything correctly though
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<yorickpeterse> omg, ActionMailer does some weird shit (surprise)
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<yorickpeterse> WHY
<yorickpeterse> Now I can't test that shit properly
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<yorickpeterse> Which has been there since 2004....
<yorickpeterse> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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<badeball> yorickpeterse: I lost my connection to freenode for a bit, but in case nobody answered you: 3.4. Address Specification, see name-addr and angle-addr at http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2822
<maloik_> https://github.com/dcramer/mangodb possibly relevant for yorickpeterse
<maloik_> :D
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<sarkyniin> hey, is it possible to access a local variable from a method?
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<sarkyniin> I know about scopes, I was just wondering if there was some method that allowed you to take a variable from another scope
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<waxjar> you can pass a binding around if you really have to
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<jhass> but rather just pass the value around or use a class
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<apeiros> lets just be clear that wanting to access *local* variables from elsewhere is generally a bad idea
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<sarkyniin> hey, just a small question
<sarkyniin> is it possible to stop the program's execution until a thread finishes?
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<sarkyniin> I know it kind of defeats the purpose of threads, but yeah
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<waxjar> you can call #join on a thread to wait until it's finished
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<sarkyniin> waxjar: yeah, I saw that
<sarkyniin> anyway, is there any reason this won't work?
<waxjar> possibly. does it not work?
<waxjar> (also, cinch has timers built in)
<sarkyniin> I know, but I guess I preferred to use the thread
<sarkyniin> since it allows me to use an "interrupted" value
<sarkyniin> but yeah, what it does is just ignore any "... pff" from an user
<waxjar> cinch has ! as a standard prefix, try !... pff
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<sarkyniin> nah waxjar
<sarkyniin> I disabled that ages ago
<waxjar> that's good :p
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<sarkyniin> logs
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<waxjar> the logs happened within 15 seconds of connecting?
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<waxjar> because if not, it would make sense alive? would return false
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<waxjar> anyway, in your case i'd just simplify to storing a timestamp and then check if its more than 15 seconds ago
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<Jan> I've got a question. I'm developing a gem. However I need to monkeypatch a class of one of the dependencies of the gem. The monkeypatch works, but only the code is de monkeypatched class is working. Since I'm only monkeypatching one method, the results in NoMethod errors. I found a fix for this, instead of naming the file with the monkeypatched class the same as the original, I've given it a different name. Now my question is, wether
<Jan> Sorry for the long question
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<havenwood> Jan: what you said got cut off just after "wether"
<Jan> this is expected behaviour?
<Jan> That's the part that got cut off
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<Jan> The tree of the dependency looks like: lib/aap/mies/noot.rb, so in my gem I've created the file lib/aap/mies/noot.rb, which contains the monkeypatched class. The fix is however using a different name like: lib/aap/mies/noot_2.rb
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<sarkyniin> this code sounds correct, but it doesn't work
<sarkyniin> :<
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<waxjar> i meant you don't need a thread, just a time stamp
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<sarkyniin> o
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<sarkyniin> then how do I prevent the "... pff" from the bot from happening?
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<waxjar> use a timer
<waxjar> before we go on, can you tell me what you're actually trying to do?
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<waxjar> !no should say "... pff" after 15 seconds unless somebody else says "... pff" within those 15 seconds?
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<sarkyniin> yeah
<sarkyniin> waxjar
<sarkyniin> dumb plugin, but yeah I'm trying to recreate that function
<waxjar> the initialize is only called when the plugin is registered with the bot
<waxjar> so that's not the right place to create a thread or a timer
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<sarkyniin> waxjar: yeah, but then
<waxjar> i'd just create the timer when you receive !no, and call stop on it when you receive "... pff" and say that "that's my line" thing
<sarkyniin> I can't access the timer from the other function
<waxjar> sure you can, if you store it in an instance variable
<sarkyniin> I can store things in instance variables outside of initialize?
<waxjar> yes
<sarkyniin> ... huh
<sarkyniin> then, the whole thing is me being extremely dumb
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<waxjar> you don't need a timestamp in that case
<sarkyniin> yeah
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<sarkyniin> anyone knows how to get the bot's name in cinch?
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<bougyman> .nick
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<bougyman> def listen(m) unless m.user.nick == bot.nick
<bougyman> you mean that?
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<sarkyniin> oh
<sarkyniin> bot.nick gives the bot's name?
<sarkyniin> noice
<Mon_Ouie> ro.bot.nick
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<pipework> Mon_Ouie: har har har
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