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<jbardin>
also per zenspider … I don't think a StringIO would ever block given that you either have the entirety of the stream available, or you don't have a StringIO object
<corecode_>
yes
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<TheMamboKing42>
I was hoping for some insight as to whether I should learn php or ruby. I have a functioning knowledge of HTML5 + CSS 3 in building websites, but that is the extent of my programming knowledge at the moment.
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<TheMamboKing42>
Anyone have any thoughts on my situation?
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<TheMamboKing42>
335 people in here. No one is alive??
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<zenspider>
jesus you're impatient
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<TheMamboKing42>
lol
<TheMamboKing42>
A little bit. With IRC chatrooms I often find that many of them are ghost towns with no one speaking.
<zenspider>
you come in here asking if you should learn ruby or php... based on the name of the channel, what answer do you think you're gonna get?
<zenspider>
sure. go do php
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<TheMamboKing42>
I want to hear it from a ruby enthusists perspective. So far it holds the most appeal to me.
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<TheMamboKing42>
If there is a PHP IRC I will go there next. I want to hear both sides of the story from real developers.
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<TheMamboKing42>
I am new to the game and still seeking some guidance on which directions I should focus my coding education on.
<surrounder>
or you give them both a whirl and form your own opinion
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<mistym>
TheMamboKing42: There are different time zones, of course, but for perspective it's 5:46 on the west coast. Most people have gone home for the day or are preparing to do so
<zenspider>
I'm biased... I think you should do PHP... more ruby for me
<TheMamboKing42>
Ahh :) Sorry if I seemed rude or disrespectful.
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<TheMamboKing42>
I would truly value any opinions anyone should have for a beginning developer in my situation that is seeking guidance on deciding which coding path he should take and why ruby could be the better choice.
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<zenspider>
"better"... such a trap
<TheMamboKing42>
?
<TheMamboKing42>
I'm not trolling here, just looking for honest opinions so I can make an informed decision.
<chichou>
TheMamboKing42 it sounds like troll but if you want to read something about php that makes you don't want to go for php, https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=29992 :)
<zenspider>
there is no "better". "better" is a mental tarpit that keeps the ignorant from starting
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<zenspider>
pick one. do something with it. try doing it with the other. make an informed decision.
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<zenspider>
if you had any real questions, we could answer them. you're asking for completely open-ended subjective BS that wouldn't even apply to you because our experiences aren't your own and vice-versa.
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<TheMamboKing42>
0_o
<mistym>
TheMamboKing42: What kind of ecosystem do you want to work in? Are there specific kinds of tasks you want work, projects you want to work with?
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<TheMamboKing42>
I would like to create a custom content management system for restaurants that can have loads of feature rich abilities to manage and run their business. I am a big linux guy, but I am also open to BSD.
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<TheMamboKing42>
I have been using wordpress for building and managing websites for a couple years, so that is where I am coming from, but I never got around to learning php. Just modyfing random bits here and there if I absolutely needed to.
<mistym>
Are you looking at specific frameworks you want to work in yet, or just getting a sense of the lay of the land?
* mistym
is walking home, back in ~10-15
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<TheMamboKing42>
Just getting a lay of the land, its really a career change for me. I am the CEO of a media corporation who is sick of the daily grind and stress of producing media.
<TheMamboKing42>
Not wealthy enough to retire, so I thought since I like building websites on the side, why not give coding a go for a career.
<TheMamboKing42>
Websites only go so far. I would like to build custom software for my ideas.
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<surrounder>
imho ruby's a little broader than that; I'm just a sysadmin who came into contact with ruby because of Puppet
<surrounder>
although we host a lot of php stuff for customers I always feel it's a bit of a one trick pony (websites)
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<TheMamboKing42>
The only allure PHP has for me is if I decided to fully fork Word Press and use a collection of open source plugins to help aid me in the development of my own custom cms. However from the advice I have heard from developers, many say to avoid learning it for both difficulty in maintaining it and learning it.
<TheMamboKing42>
Really I feel like a kid again trying to pick which courses to take in college.
<surrounder>
well yeah, then just do what zenspider suggested; just try it out and see what suits you better
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<mistym>
TheMamboKing42: Sorry I disappeared on you there
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<TheMamboKing42>
No worries, I am still here
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<mistym>
TheMamboKing42: So, I guess what I'd say is that the language you like best is only one variable in what makes the best choice for you.
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<mistym>
TheMamboKing42: As an admittedly biased person who's worked with Ruby and PHP, I'd pick Ruby as the language any day of the week, and avoid PHP wherever I can.
<mistym>
But, for example, if I wasn't writing a complete app from scratch, but was writing or tweaking small plugins to an existing CMS, that might be a reason I'd use something else.
<TheMamboKing42>
Why do you say that you should avoid php wherever you can?
<mistym>
I dislike PHP as a language. I find it inconsistent, frequently obtuse, and it makes me less productive than working in other languages.
<mistym>
I wouldn't say "should" - I *personally* avoid PHP wherever I can. It's my choice based on my personal experiences, but that doesn't mean everyone would make the same choice!
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<TheMamboKing42>
Is there a content management system out there that is built in ruby and has similar functionality/prestige to word press?
<mistym>
That's a good question, actually. I don't do CMS work, so I haven't really looked into it!
<chichou>
TheMamboKing42 I think that a lot of CMS in ruby are actually written with rails
<chichou>
so it means that it will be an additional thing to learn
<TheMamboKing42>
So if I want to learn ruby, I have to learn rails too?
<mistym>
You might, depending on what framework/software you're using.
<chichou>
Web php devs often learn symfony or another framework too
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<TheMamboKing42>
I guess when it comes down to it I want to build applications. Unless I am wrong I can't do that with php like I could with ruby.
<mistym>
You can! A number of devs do. But yeah, a lot of people who write PHP use it to extend existing software/frameworks.
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<chichou>
You can build whatever you want with both just not in the same way.
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<TheMamboKing42>
Thanks for all of your help. I will give everything everyone said some serious thought and make an informed decision. Take care and have a great day everyone. Namaste :)
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<yorickpeterse>
morning
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<yorickpeterse>
Great, seems RubyGems started ignoring --no-ri --no-rdoc in my gemrc
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<darix>
yorickpeterse: yard based docs maybe?
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<yorickpeterse>
Well, using those options directly worked as expected
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<yorickpeterse>
apparently adding --no-document instead solved the problem
<darix>
yorickpeterse: maybe you upgraded your rubygems?:)
<yorickpeterse>
I did at some point
<yorickpeterse>
but that doesn't explain why `gem install foo --no-ri --no-rdoc` works fne
<yorickpeterse>
* fine
<yorickpeterse>
But adding those options to /etc/gemrc *and* ~/.gemrc doesn't
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<Kero>
yorickpeterse: use --no-documents ?
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<Kero>
(without the s)
<darix>
Kero: not the point
<yorickpeterse>
Kero: read above
<Kero>
misread it, sorry
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<Kero>
me is under the impression that --(no-)document is to replace --no-ri, but this is indeed an odd way of going about that...
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<darix>
l
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<ruby-lang789>
hi
<ruby-lang789>
in rails
<ruby-lang789>
there is a difference between <%= and <%
<ruby-lang789>
am i right in thinking that <%= shows the value and <% doesnot but only executes
<Mon_Ouie>
That's ERB, not Rails. And yes, that's what they mean.
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<ruby-lang789>
i need to learn how to add a custom controller. i need to add a password validation, i think i will need a controller.
<darix>
ruby-lang789: there are plenty of plugins for handling authentication
<maloik_>
ruby-lang789: I get the feeling you should consider a more structured approach to learning ruby/rails
<maloik_>
try one of the numerous tutorials or books, it'll serve you well
<ruby-lang789>
ok
<ruby-lang789>
railstutorials by michale someone!!
<maloik_>
could be a start, yes
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<vshan>
hello
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<ruby-lang789>
why is ruby to unix-ish, one blank space make all the difference
<yorickpeterse>
wat
<yorickpeterse>
That is completely unrelated to Unix
<yorickpeterse>
it's...not even close
<yorickpeterse>
Unix is way more painful
<ruby-lang789>
i know how painful it is...
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<maloik_>
adding or removing spaces in any (regular) languages makes it wrong, why would you expect a programming language that needs to be interpreted by a computer to know where it can or cannot be removed/added?
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<apeiros>
also ruby is quite forgiving with regards to whitespace
<apeiros>
much more so than many other languages (*cough* python *cough*)
<maloik_>
yea I was just gonna say... chances are you're talking about yml?
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<maloik_>
defining a BrokenRecord error class feels funny :-)
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<maloik_>
(implementing a dns interface)
<maloik_>
hmm, using pry is there a way to quit the program entirely? I'm in a big loop and want to quit the entire thing without having to spam exit 25000 times
<whitequark>
exit!
<maloik_>
\o/
<maloik_>
just found exit-program too :D
<apeiros>
maloik_: `kill -9 #{$$}`
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<apeiros>
(use whitequark's suggestion, though ;-) )
<maloik_>
haha :-) sounds like a plan
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<apeiros>
don't laugh. I had that as Kernel#K! and used it regularly not long ago. some C extension "refused" to go down gently with any kind of other termination :(
<yorickpeterse>
I usually just do require 'rails/all'
* yorickpeterse
runs
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<maloik_>
yorickpeterse: are you coming over to arrrrcamp?
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<yorickpeterse>
shit, I still need to order tickets
<maloik_>
:-)
<maloik_>
there's a couple discount codes available
<yorickpeterse>
I'll just use the discount code "yorickpeterse"
<yorickpeterse>
that should give me like 80% discount
<maloik_>
though if _THE MAN_ is paying for it feel free to ignore them :D
<someone___>
the #<Class:0x00000008f441a8> is the memory direction of the object in the RAM
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<gpg_>
i am just confused what #<Class:0x00000008f441a8>
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<gpg_>
memory direction or memorry adress
<gpg_>
?
<centrx>
*location
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<gpg_>
is memory address and memory location the same thing
<centrx>
yes
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<someone___>
yes
<gpg_>
thnaks guys
<someone___>
you're welcome
<gpg_>
so #object_id is the id of memory location in the RAM
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<someone___>
it may be you object's id
<someone___>
it may be your* object's id
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<gpg_>
ok thanks
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<whitequark>
object_id is only memory location on Ruby MRI.
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<someone____>
ahhh
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<yorickpeterse>
matti: hit me with some tunes
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<jdecuirm>
Hi!
<jdecuirm>
I am having some troubles i hope anyone can help me with ruby!
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<centrx>
Do ask yes
<jdecuirm>
Thanks
<jdecuirm>
well, the problem is with Aptana Studio 3!
<jdecuirm>
i have Ruby 2.1.2
<centrx>
That is a problem
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<jdecuirm>
lol
<jdecuirm>
RubyMine it's expensive
<jdecuirm>
the problem is when i want to debug
<jdecuirm>
i don't know if debugger-ide supports ruby 2.1.2
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<centrx>
jdecuirm, There aren't many differences in 2.1.2 vs 2.1.0
<jdecuirm>
I see, 2.1.0 is supported by the debugger?
<centrx>
I don't know. If you are talking about "ruby-debug-ide" it looks like not much activity, but still some
<jdecuirm>
yes that!
<centrx>
I would assume it works and try it
<centrx>
Nevertheless, I don't see much need for IDEs or debuggers with Ruby
<centrx>
*special debuggers
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<jdecuirm>
i see
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<jdecuirm>
i guess you are right
<chrisseaton>
centrx: what do you mean by special debuggers?
<centrx>
in this case, integrated into an IDE I suppose
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<jdecuirm>
so you are a text plain Rubyst? and console? wow
<centrx>
I have syntax highlighting and terminal multiplexer
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<jdecuirm>
terminal multiplexer? that is a new concept for me what is that?
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<darix>
jdecuirm: look up tmux or screen
<jdecuirm>
I see, well i guess i should stick with sublime text 2 and the terminal to test, thanks!
<darix>
jdecuirm: may favorite debugging tool in the mean time is pry
<darix>
if i wonder why something break
<darix>
i put a binding.pry in that place
<darix>
and can tinker with my program right at this code position
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<darix>
and pry has some debugging plugins too
<jdecuirm>
darix: Wow thanks, is just that as i came from java, C# and objective-c i am used to the IDEs stuff, the autocompletion and all
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<maloik_>
other editors can have autocompletion as well
<maloik_>
I use vim, terminal, rails console, irb and pry and all of them have autocompletion to a point
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<centrx>
jdecuirm, Also there is less need for autocompletion in languagesThatDoNotUseUnnecessarilyLongMethodNames()
<jdecuirm>
I see, as i am a new with ruby to go to rails is the reason i ask this! but thanks for your advices!
<darix>
centrx: and autocompletion gets really hard with .thismethodisgeneratedatruntime^^
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<|jemc|>
jdecuirm: I also find it useful to use an external terminal for running in - the sublime text 'build output' pane is pretty useless
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<|jemc|>
I wrote a sublime text plugin to do just that but it's more of a hack than a proper plugin and I don't have the time to stabilize and support it right now, so "buyer beware"
<jdecuirm>
i see, well i guess i will stick with the ruby path and keep it simple
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<jdecuirm>
in fact is is easier to find errors in ruby than in other languages
<|jemc|>
took me a while to get used to the tracebacks being "upside down" from what I was used to
<someone____>
Pry looks awesome!
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<jdecuirm>
The reason i am in the amazing Ruby world is because i am creating an app in iOS, but i need to consume data
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<jdecuirm>
so, the road took me to mySQL, Apache, Rails and JSON format
<jdecuirm>
to create apis is this correct?
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<centrx>
I would use Postgresql, a better database
<jdecuirm>
nice advice
<centrx>
and something more lightweight than Apache, with say nginx
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<jdecuirm>
but, all of this things are correct? let's say that i want to emulate twitter, all of this will work?
<centrx>
yes
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<centrx>
jdecuirm, Also take a look at rails-api and grape
<jdecuirm>
Thanks! now i now i'm in the correct path
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<jdecuirm>
rails-api and grape, got it taking notes
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<centrx>
jdecuirm, Rails is a good framework and has a lot of features, but if you are making a pure API, you might want something more lightweight like Sinatra as the web application, maybe still use ActiveRecord for accessing the DB
<centrx>
jdecuirm, but Rails is also a good choice for beginning because it includes a lot of features built-in and good quality
<jdecuirm>
Yes in fact, i want to be able to do CRUD
<centrx>
jdecuirm, and if you increase the scope of the application, the functionality is already in the library for it
<jdecuirm>
register users, etc
<jdecuirm>
centrx: great help, i guess was true that in ruby community works different, all wants to help lol
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<centrx>
There is a saying, Matz Is Nice And So We Are Nice
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<jdecuirm>
i read that just yesterday, now i get it!
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<jdecuirm>
i read a lot about Heroku, but i don't fully understand it! how does heroku works?
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<maloik_>
depending on your programming experience you could take a look at railstutorial.org
<maloik_>
it has a section on deploying to heroku
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<maloik_>
(and is generally a pretty good rails tutorial if you ask me)
<centrx>
jdecuirm, I don't know much about it, it seems to be a cloud service that provides some extra special functionality
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<maloik_>
heroku's strong points are ease of deployment, easy scaling, ...
<workmad3>
maloik_: and wallet dents
<centrx>
People are always having problems with Heroku for some reason, and it seems like they have worse than usual downtime
<jdecuirm>
centrx: if i may say, i prefer the old school style of creating my backend, i guess i feel more, let's say in control
<maloik_>
workmad3: absolutely :)
<workmad3>
centrx: heroku has a fairly low glass ceiling
<centrx>
workmad3, you mean like, for babes?
<workmad3>
centrx: I mean it's really easy to crash into its limits ;)
<jdecuirm>
i was thinking about Linode, to host
<centrx>
jdecuirm, You may want "Infrastructure as a Service" as opposed to "Platform as a Service"
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<jdecuirm>
oh
<centrx>
jdecuirm, I have been happy with Digital Ocean and AWS. AWS is the Cadillac option
<centrx>
jdecuirm, Linode has Infrastructure as a Service too
<maloik_>
if you're just starting to build this app heroku will do... focus on building rather than hosting what you're building
<centrx>
It's just a name, SaaS, PaaS, IaaS
<maloik_>
you can switch it over once you have enough users that it's starting to become expensive
<workmad3>
centrx: MBaaS
<maloik_>
or when you need more than what heroku can offer
<centrx>
BSaaS
<jdecuirm>
for now i will work on localhost as i finish my APIs :P
<workmad3>
centrx: I'm waiting for SaaSaaS
<jdecuirm>
when the time comes i will concern about it but it is good to know the options
<maloik_>
workmad3: basically whitelabel SaaS'es?
<maloik_>
:D
<workmad3>
maloik_: ya
<maloik_>
I'm pretty sure those already exist
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<workmad3>
maloik_: :)
<jdecuirm>
i find heroku expensive, so as parse.com
<jdecuirm>
parse.com sure saves me time
<workmad3>
jdecuirm: heroku.com 1 dyno == free
<jdecuirm>
but the prices are too much
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<workmad3>
jdecuirm: so heroku is really nice and cheap for getting something out there to test an idea
<jdecuirm>
yes that is true
<workmad3>
just so long as you don't need a decent sized database... or a custom SSl endpoint... or background workers... or file uploads... etc. etc. etc.
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<jdecuirm>
the push notifications will be a hard part lol
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<mustmodify>
I'm ... stuck mentally. I'm sure there is a clear way to think about this but I can't seem to piece it together. Any help would be appreciated. I have a large Rails codebase doing a ton of complicated medical stuff. I decided I was going to experimentally tease out one chunk of features into a relatively simple app, since it needed refactoring/new features anyway. So that was a success. I have a standalone, well-tested app that accepts medical record
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<mustmodify>
Another dev on my team says we should add this code to our existing Rails app because if we keep it separate we'll have to maintain two apps. Having watched some videos about micro-apps, the encapsulation and separation seems appealing but I don't really have a good sense of how these apps should talk to each other.
<mustmodify>
If I keep this separate, I'll need a way to transmit these files to the "big app" to be consumed. I guess I could just write a file to some "inbox" directory. Seems kinda dirty. So it's dirty to add it to the app and dirty to not add it but just write files to a predefined destination...
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<mustmodify>
I could implement a pub/sub messaging queue but that's a lot of overhead for one experimental feature.
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<mustmodify>
and let me know where the first message got cut off. :P
<centrx>
mustmodify, At the very least, the code base can be kept separate, and used as a library gem instead of API messaging
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<centrx>
mustmodify, That would save time maintaining "two" apps, because the code itself is needed either way, but as a "separate" app/library it is nicely encapsulated.
<centrx>
mustmodify, Another way of communicating could be to save to the database. The database is a built-in queue/messaging system
<mustmodify>
centrx: hm... I kind of like the idea of a gem. I'd have to think about the deploy process but I like the way it's encapsulated but not super-separate.
<apeiros>
mustmodify: we put shared stuff into an engine
<mustmodify>
centrix: yeah, I've had some experience with that and it hasn't been ... the most positive.
<apeiros>
mustmodify: also that's somewhat more a #rubyonrails question than a #ruby-lang one
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<mustmodify>
apeiros: This involves rails but I'm trying to break away from "pure-rails" thinking to have some "pure-ruby" bits, so I thought this would be a better venue for that. :P
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<apeiros>
mustmodify: we don't know what you intend to do unless you tell us, you know?
<mustmodify>
Does it seem like I'm leaving out some information? Confused.
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<apeiros>
the part about "I want the shared part to be rails-free" was a new requirement™
<mustmodify>
ah
<apeiros>
make it a plain gem then instead of an engine. you lose a bit of convenience/rails conventions, though.
<mustmodify>
Well that's more a stray thought than a requirement. What I mean is that I don't want to put everything into Rails just because it's Rails.
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<apeiros>
I generally put all non-rails things into gems
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<mustmodify>
But if there is some reason to do that, then of course it can be in Rails...
<apeiros>
you don't need to release those gems publicly either
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<mustmodify>
yeah. OK Thanks for your thoughts.
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<ruby-lang702>
Türk var mı ?
<ruby-lang702>
yada türkçe bilen birisi
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<ruby-lang702>
hakkatten yok
<ruby-lang702>
:S
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<yorickpeterse>
baguette
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<maloik_>
oh you speak german too, yorickpeterse ?
<maloik_>
:-)
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<yorickpeterse>
maloik_: No
<yorickpeterse>
not anymore at least
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<jbardin>
does anyone have any recent articles on special RUBY_HEAP_MIN_SLOTS env settings you can tweak?
<jbardin>
in particular, I need to know if any of these settings apply to MRI ruby 1.9.3 RUBY_HEAP_MIN_SLOTS RUBY_HEAP_SLOTS_INCREMENT RUBY_HEAP_SLOTS_GROWTH_FACTOR RUBY_GC_MALLOC_LIMIT
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<mcantor>
Ugh, it assumes all kinds of css and jquery files are being hosted
<mcantor>
this is ridiculous
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<mcantor>
What the hell is the "right way" to browse HTML docs locally???
<centrx>
Open in your web browser?
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<mcantor>
centrx: My ruby/share/doc directory is empty.
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<centrx>
mcantor, In order to browse HTML docs locally, you must install HTML docs locally?
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<kwent>
Hi, i would like to override QueryMethods.where(opts, *rest) (Rails 3) to gsub the opts before executing the where. Typically Monkey Patching it. Anyone know how to do that ? Thank you
<centrx>
kwent, Why would you do this?
<jhass>
kwent: sounds like a horrible idea
<mcantor>
centrx: What's the "right way" to install HTML docs locally for both stdlib and core?
<centrx>
mcantor, Use your OS's package manager to install ruby-doc?
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<mcantor>
centrx: There is no such homebrew formula
<centrx>
mcantor, Isn't the documentation generated during compilation with rdoc?
<centrx>
mcantor, So if you download the Ruby source code, there must be a make command to generate only the documentation
<centrx>
mcantor, Otherwise, I would expect that homebrew has a doc package named something
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<mcantor>
centrx: I don't want homebrew's doc package because I can't rely on it to be documentation for the same version that I build with ruby-build
<mcantor>
centrx: Running 'rdoc' in the root of ruby's c source errors because there's already a folder called 'doc', which suggests to me that you're not supposed to build it that way
<mcantor>
centrx: And I see makefile targets for CLEANING the rdocs, but not for generating them
<mcantor>
If I run "yard server" in the root of ruby's source, it seems to catch all of the stdlib, but none of core
<mcantor>
This blog post opines that 'yardoc', which I'm hoping is synonymous with 'yard doc', can be used to build and serve core and stdlib, but SEPARATELY, which is totally baffling to me.