<bnagy>
if one or neither of those things is not true, they don't usually say "HELLO I AM HERE BUT I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER"
<bnagy>
because that would be annoying
<bnagy>
ugh double negative. Kill me.
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<erikh>
hello
<dingus_khan>
whoops
<dingus_khan>
I kinda feel like I should say HELLO I AM HERE BUT I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER so other people don't wonder if maybe I do but I'm being stingy
<dingus_khan>
:D
<erikh>
it doesn't have to be high traffic to be high quality.
<dingus_khan>
truth
<erikh>
go into #ubuntu or #debian if you want examples of the opposite
<dingus_khan>
really?
<erikh>
or #rubyonrails
<dingus_khan>
I wonder why that is
<erikh>
there's so much noise in those channels I can barely keep up
<dingus_khan>
you've suddenly made me appreciate the low noise content of this channel
<erikh>
well, join them if you want to really appreciate it
<dingus_khan>
erikh, I shall credit you someday with partial responsibility for my general enlightenment of important internet things. dress up
<erikh>
hahaha
<erikh>
is a hoodie and shorts dressing up?
<erikh>
I got to the k-fed school of fashion
<dingus_khan>
well I was going to ask if you were cool with Outback
<dingus_khan>
see I don't know what that is even, hah
<dingus_khan>
SO MUCH LEARNING
<erikh>
it's ok, you're probably better off not knowing
<dingus_khan>
fair enough
<dingus_khan>
so where were you when you first learned you could skip curly braces for a hash in a parameter list?
<dingus_khan>
please say 'Nam
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<erikh>
raggi
<erikh>
yelled at me once
<erikh>
learned lots of things that way
<bnagy>
is there any painless way to keep a 'public' version of a project that has a subset of the 'private' version, but stays in sync?
<dingus_khan>
raggi?
<bnagy>
with git, ideally
<erikh>
dingus_khan: a guy who used to be a regular in here
<dingus_khan>
answer that first
<dingus_khan>
gotcha
<erikh>
bnagy: I don't have a good solution... although I think bitbucket just released a replacement for git submodules
<erikh>
which is how I would do it, if git submodules weren't complete ... magic
<bnagy>
yeah I looked at submodules
<erikh>
bnagy: you know, you might want to pop into #chef-hacking during PST workday hours
<erikh>
ask the guys at opscode. I know they do a fair bit of it.
<bnagy>
but in the end i thought it was easier to just have separate repos and not shoot myself in the face
<erikh>
yeah, check out the bitbucket thing too
<bnagy>
it would be nice to be able to git rebase --dont-put-any-files-back-damn-you
<erikh>
yeah.
<erikh>
the opscode guys definitely do their fair share of it though
<erikh>
would be worth asking them.
<bnagy>
k
<erikh>
like, real world, we-lose-money-if-this-goes-out cases.
<bnagy>
yeah I would lose only my job
<erikh>
heh.
<erikh>
"only"
<erikh>
dingus_khan: raggi was a ruby hero this year, fwiw.
<bnagy>
meh there's always more jobs
<erikh>
he's a pretty awesome fella.
<dingus_khan>
sweet, doesn't hang around much anymore?
<dingus_khan>
did I noob it up too much in here for him?
<erikh>
nah, he left a while ago
<erikh>
he's just trying to minimize noise, like lots of others
<erikh>
he's pretty busy these days.
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<zenspider>
rawr
<zenspider>
22.78 seconds to run tests across 59 projects
<erikh>
oh, also, I learned a lot from having zenspider and drbrain yell at me too
<erikh>
noob problems are really no big deal. it's being an asshole in here that will get you shit canned
<yorickpeterse>
passing blocks should be done as a parameter, not as a method call (in your case)
<mdedetrich>
well the conventional way to calls sequence is like this
<yorickpeterse>
since that would result in `sequence(..).send(:&, parameter)`
<mdedetrich>
ah, that worked, thanks!
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<whitequark>
andrewvos: it's just webkit with another scripting engine
<whitequark>
from the looks of it, it seems that the guy's pretty serious
<whitequark>
though I have a hard time thinking about potential applications.
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<whitequark>
his thesis maybe?..
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<yorickpeterse>
assuming the performance isn't shit I don't see why this *isn't* a good idea
<yorickpeterse>
besides being webkit specific
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: well
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<whitequark>
I can imagine someone distributing a "native" app which consists of webkit and some ruby code
<whitequark>
but the problem is that "native" apps which are HTML5 wrapped with something are always just shit
<yorickpeterse>
everything is better than JS
<yorickpeterse>
*EVERYTHING*
<whitequark>
you're pretty boring, you know?
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<yorickpeterse>
your face is boring
<andrewvos>
):
<whitequark>
wanna hate something, it's OK, but do it in a justified and rational way
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<yorickpeterse>
Implying that my hate is not justified
<andrewvos>
To hell with that
<yorickpeterse>
plus can you justify why HTML5 is apparently always shit?
<yorickpeterse>
pot, kettle, etc
<yorickpeterse>
(for native apps)
<whitequark>
sure
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<yorickpeterse>
Do you want me to justify JS being shit? Because I can go on all day long if you like
<yorickpeterse>
though it can be summed up as "It's the PHP of browsers"
<whitequark>
apart from having almost zero integration with the underlying OS, I have a hard time finding a webapp which won't be slow (on my fucking i7) and memory-leaky
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<whitequark>
besides, there's a more fundamental problem
<yorickpeterse>
and how are those not implementation specific issues?
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<yorickpeterse>
or issues of the developers?
<yorickpeterse>
If you're going to be pedantic about having to proof shit you better come up with some decent arguments yourself instead of these half assed ones
<whitequark>
HTML was created as a markup language. it's excellent for markup, i.e. look at wikipedia. it was never created for interface design, and doing good interfaces in html is really damn hard
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: implementation specific? because all implementations behave like that
<yorickpeterse>
Related to the UI, I'm pretty god damn sure it's easier than Glade and all the spinoffs on Linux
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: familiarize yourself with qt creator
<yorickpeterse>
But I have better stuff to do, I hate Javascript, deal with it :)
<yorickpeterse>
hahahaah Qt, once it doesn't look like hairy male ass on non KDE environments (where it does too btw) I'll take another look at it
<whitequark>
yeah, talk about decent arguments
<whitequark>
it isn't even related to KDE, Qt can use your GTK theme (and vice versa)
<whitequark>
if you want that.
<yorickpeterse>
I'm well aware of that, and I've never managed to get it to look the same
<yorickpeterse>
even VLC, which looks pretty similar, is pretty easy to spot out as a Qt app
<whitequark>
I guess it's due to HIG
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<whitequark>
aka "which another interface element actively used by community will we sneakily remove just overnight"
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<yorickpeterse>
Hmpf, I should really blag (= rant) about JS
<yorickpeterse>
could probably write a book: "JavaScript the bad parts"
<whitequark>
probably not, too many rants about it already
<whitequark>
besides, I wasn't even talking about your hate to JS or whatever
<whitequark>
so far, no attempts to create language-independent bytecode were even near to success
<yorickpeterse>
On regular environments people go through great trouble to make new programming languages to solve problems in others. Yet when we look at browsers there's this one retarded language dominating it
<yorickpeterse>
Then people come up with ASM.js which is just a subset of the retardism
<whitequark>
it's unrelated to JS
<whitequark>
just happens to have similar syntax
<yorickpeterse>
I'm all for a universal bytecode but dear god, make it something completely out of the hands of anybody near ECMA
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: you don't get it
<whitequark>
it is quite certainly simply not possible to make an universal bytecode
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<whitequark>
it's not a new idea. thirty or forty year old, at least
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<yorickpeterse>
I didn't say I wanted it, nor that it was easy
<yorickpeterse>
I stated that I'm not against the idea
<yorickpeterse>
I'm also not against the idea of just having different languages and engines in browsers
<whitequark>
"I'm all for a universal bytecode" ahem
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<whitequark>
the problem with different languages and engines is that you're just increasing fragmentation
<yorickpeterse>
I think that in 2013 people should've realized that that is not per definition a bad thing
<whitequark>
we need to go back to native, and leave the web for what it's good for: marked-up text.
<yorickpeterse>
seems to work fine everywhere else
<whitequark>
because otherwise, you're just adding unnecessary layers and creating problems for yourself
<whitequark>
eh... let's being with isolating the browser from the environment, and then proceed to leak all the details of environment back to browser while creating a combinatorial explosion of edge cases
<whitequark>
not that I believe that going back to native will happen any time soon. Qt's almost broke, and everything else is even more meh
<yorickpeterse>
Native for browsers? wat
<yorickpeterse>
I don't think I'm following you there
<whitequark>
no, just native applications
<yorickpeterse>
haha
<yorickpeterse>
keep dreaming
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<whitequark>
meh
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<whitequark>
I'll just wait another 10 or 20 years. something interesting is bound to happen.
<yorickpeterse>
unless things change JS will probably be the next ActiveX by then
<whitequark>
hardly, ActiveX was vendor-specific and nonportable from the start
<whitequark>
the next C, maybe (if we're using this "the next" antipattern, anyway)
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<whitequark>
here's a crazy idea:
<whitequark>
browser's already looks like a hypervisor. let's make it one. each tab is a Native Client sandbox (which by default may very well execute WebKit and JS). tabs communicate with each other via, surprise, TCP/IP network; just as well they communicate with another services. each tab gets an OpenGL context, input event pipe, network access, some RAM, some CPU, and some local cache.
<whitequark>
the main part is probably the TCP/IP one. it solves interoperability (Internet is already the most interoperable system in existence, with all kinds of OSes and languages), peer-to-peer communication and building distributed systems
<yorickpeterse>
what are you smoking?
<yorickpeterse>
also, why would you use a network protocol for tabs when you are already running in a container? Might as well pass internal messages around
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<whitequark>
OpenGL: if you look at the phones & tablets, everything is already drawn via OpenGL ES. so this is the lowest common denominator for hw AND it gives decent performance
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: because it doesn't matter that they are running in a container
<whitequark>
I imagined this use case, for example:
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<whitequark>
so you want to store some files. OK. there's no filesystem [that you can access]. however, on the web there's already no filesystem. how do we solve this problem?
<whitequark>
access to some kind of service like S3.
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<whitequark>
so, instead of local filesystem with its own awkwardness we just make a "tab" (non-graphical probably) which serves as one
<whitequark>
well, the idea's nothing new; it's mostly reiteration of microkernel ideas from 30 years ago.
<whitequark>
plan9 works like that
<judofyr>
I may say you're a dreamer
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<whitequark>
remember alan kay's words: "the Internet (possibly the only real object-oriented system in working order)"
<whitequark>
judofyr: ... but?
<judofyr>
whitequark: no butts
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<apeiros>
that's horrible! what do we do without butts?
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<NemesisD>
are there any alternative formatters that actually work with minitest 5
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<NemesisD>
how on earth do you get autotest to test things written in the minitest/spec style
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<blowmage>
NemesisD: works fine for me. what problems are you having?
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<NemesisD>
blowmage: do you have a sample project i can just cargo cult in the files from? its gone from detecting change events properly but running 0 assertions to not detecting any changes at all
<NemesisD>
it would really be nice if someone just made a minitest init command or something. i can't help but think this hurts conversions from rspec.
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<blowmage>
NemesisD: are you working on a rails project?
<NemesisD>
blowmage: nope
<NemesisD>
just a gem
<blowmage>
does your project have rspec in it?
<NemesisD>
blowmage: nope. new project i created half an hour ago
<blowmage>
i've seen rspec's `describe` stomp on minitest's spec dsl, which is why i asked
<blowmage>
NemesisD: moving to pm
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<NemesisD>
hey blowmage do you know of any formatters that work with minitest 5?
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<RomyRomy>
Hullo. I am trying to solve Project Euler #14 "Collatz Sequence" and I am almost done with the solution but got stuck and ran into stack-level-too-deep problems. I am popping into request your help in fixing my error. http://projecteuler.net/problem=14, and my solution so far is http://pastie.org/7949190
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<wnd>
I wouldn't use recursion here
<wnd>
def collatz(n); len = 1; while n > 1; if n.even?; n /= 2; else; n = n * 3 + 1; end; len += 1; end; len; end
<wnd>
replacing len with building an array if needed
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<RomyRomy>
wnd: okay let me try
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* whitequark
is always afraid of clicking on links to something over-engineered "a bit"
* whitequark
braces himself
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<wnd>
:-)
<whitequark>
that looks ok
<RomyRomy>
:D
<whitequark>
Foo is a bit weird
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<wnd>
I know, I know
<wnd>
it's related to the fact that I'm still not quite comfortable or natural with oo languages
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<wnd>
point being, if I did "(1 .. 1e6).map{|i| CollatzSequence.new(i)}.sort{|a, b| a.count <=> b.count}", I wouldn't know how much useless work that would do
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<wnd>
I still remember bits and pieces of perldoc's examples for sort, and the differences between different invocations
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<RomyRomy>
wnd: thank you so much for your code, it is beautiful, and I learned a bit more on structuring code properly, as opposed to just monkey patching things
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<wnd>
now if only someone could suggest better replacement for that ugly Foo thing...
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<Aloysius1>
Howdy...I'm trying to create a general pub/sub class where the class listens for data, and on receipt of that data, process it and publishes it. I don't want the class itself to know any of the details of the process, so that I can assemble a pub/sub object from a variety of listeners, processors and publishers.
<drbrain>
Aloysius1: sounds like observer.rb
<Aloysius1>
I've taken a stab at doing this with modules (you can see here: http://pastebin.com/asfvK5si) but you can probably also see why it won't work.
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<Aloysius1>
I need, or think I need, a "data" that all the component parts can access. I can put in a "set_data" and "get_data" function, of course, but that doesn't seem very elegant.
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<Aloysius1>
Doing an "instance_variable_get" seems uncool, too, though I suppose it's possible.
<mrfelix>
Hey room. I have a question about the ruby yaml library. I am a recipient of a yaml document that has the serialisation tag like "!ruby/object:Foo::Bar" ...
<mrfelix>
I want to consume the document and map Foo::Bar to my own class.
<mrfelix>
I've had a look at the yaml reference page for Ruby but can't see anything immediately helpful -- I tried add_domain_type, etc, but that didn't seem to help matters.
<mrfelix>
Any pointers to if this is even possible?
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<Aloysius1>
drbrain: Observer seems like it's in the ballpark, maybe. Thanks.
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<drbrain>
Aloysius1: one object includes Observable (the publisher) and many objects subscribe
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<Aloysius1>
So, my listener would create a publisher and point it at itself along with any processing objects?
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<drbrain>
a listener shouldn't be a publisher
<drbrain>
a listener should be a subscriber
<drbrain>
if you have objects that process sent messages, they should probably subscribe directly
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<drbrain>
and your message source should be the publisher
<Aloysius1>
Sorry, I'm phrasing that badly.
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<Aloysius1>
I've got a series of classes that receive data (which is what I meant by "listener") from external sources. And I've got a series of classes that transform data. And another set that publish that data.
<drbrain>
and the data flow is: receiver -> transformer -> publisher
<drbrain>
do multiple transformers operate on the same piece of data?
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<drbrain>
and if so, do they do it in series (receiver -> transform A -> transform B -> publisher) or parallel?
<Aloysius1>
Right now, no. I can see it happening but for now assume just one xform per object receive.
<drbrain>
then you want a pipeline
<Aloysius1>
Yeah.
<drbrain>
don't bother with Observable, it's just overhead
<Aloysius1>
Fiber?
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<drbrain>
there's several ways to implement a pipeline
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<drbrain>
I would use objects to start: r = Receiver.new(TransformA.new(Publisher.new)); r.process(item)
<drbrain>
and each item in the pipeline would call #process on its child
<Aloysius1>
That is basically where I started.
<Aloysius1>
Maybe that's where I end up.
<drbrain>
Aloysius1: if you need parallelism you can insert a queue between stages and fan out (or in)
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<Aloysius1>
I have an actual message queue as part of this scheme. The most usual data flow is going to be web->MQ->web. In one case, I'm receiving from the web and publishing to the MQ, while in the other I'm receiving from the MQ and publishing to the web.
<Aloysius1>
Multiple independent ruby programs.
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<drbrain>
that's fine, the unix way is to use $stdin and $stdout as your source and sink, respectively
<drbrain>
but you can do the same with any data source
<Aloysius1>
Yeah. I'm almost wondering if that shouldn't be the approach, like, the Rails app does nothing but receive from the web and push to a different program completely that does the publish (via another independent program that does the transform/s).
<Aloysius1>
("Publish" in this case meaning "publish to the MQ")
<Aloysius1>
Then on the other side there's a program that does nothing but read the MQ, and call the transform app on the other side while pushing to whatever the output is.
* drbrain
nods
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<Aloysius1>
Very Unixy indeed. But very loosely coupled, as well, which is the big goal. Also probably pretty easy to use. Back to pondering. Thanks for the feedback, doc.
<drbrain>
np
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