apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p195: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p429) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<ShaneD> I have been stumped researching ruby post-conditionals for the past few hours and have decided to move beyond my books and google.  Is this a good place to ask about statement evaluation uh…technicalities?
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<methods> this is very strange i just gem installed json yet i can't require it in irb and i can't require rubygems either
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<arubin> ShaneD: Sure.
<havenwood> methods: I'm curious what version of Ruby and RubyGems you're running? What do you get for?: ruby -v && gem -v
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<methods> ruby 1.8.7 and gem 1.8.11
<methods> hm strangely i usually have rubygems installed through apt but not here
<ShaneD> I have an open book test an instructor gave out and even after reading all of my books and googling for the past four hours I am not even close. I am thinking maybe he is using terminology different from standard, or I just don't get it. Not looking for an answer here, just a heads up on the general direction I should be researching. The question is: What is a post-conditional and how can we use it with return to guard expensive co
<havenwood> methods: Can you switch to a modern Ruby? The apt-get ruby1.9.1-full package or better-yet ruby-2.0.0-p125?
<ShaneD> It feels like it has something to do with short-circuiting the statement to avoid the expensive part but I can't find any examples of it. Is this a ruby Idiom?
<bnagy> style q: how do I linebreak this? comp_template_sizes = Parallel.map(interesting_templates, @parallel_type=>@cpus ) {|template_fname|
<ShaneD> I can't even figure out what post-conditional means, although I am thinking maybe it is similar to a statement modifier or postfix condition?
<arubin> ShaneD: Your first line cut off after "guard expensive c".
<bnagy> trying to keep under 80, hard limit at 100
<ShaneD> What is a post-conditional and how can we use it with return to guard expensive computations?
<arubin> ShaneD: And he probably means this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcondition
<bnagy> probably return @already_done || do_expensive_thing
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<bnagy> although that's kind of dodgy style
<ShaneD> Looks like just a short-circuited or to me. And with no "return" word in it. I think I am just getting lost in the terminology.
<arubin> ShaneD: Again, your first statement was cut off.
<ShaneD> Phew. Sorry, first time on irc.
<arubin> "What is a post-conditional and how can we use it with return to guard expensive c"
<bnagy> yeah if you've got an example or context that would help :) pastie / gist?
<ShaneD> expensive computation. No example, no context.
<ShaneD> Just that and me banging my head into the wall for hours.
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<arubin> ShaneD: Sorry, I missed it the first time that you wrote it again.
* arubin is flipping between channels.
<ShaneD> No problem, one more try and I will make sure not to truncate...
<bnagy> ShaneD: maybe he just means return result if solved; carry_on_expensive_thing
<arubin> ShaneD: It did not truncate when you typed it the second time, I just missed it.
<arubin> ShaneD: Which text are you using?
<ShaneD> Well at least I know this isn't one of things everyone knows then.
<arubin> Perhaps that will provide a clue.
<ShaneD> No text book, and the question is really vaguely worded to me.
<arubin> Is Ruby actually used in this course?
<ShaneD> Yeah, this is actually part of the admission test for an advanced class.
<ShaneD> I have read a few books, watched lots of screencasts, and this
<ShaneD> is the first I have even seen the term post-conditionals
<havenwood> bnagy: Hrm, guess you could?:
<havenwood> comp_template_map = Parallel.map(interesting_templates, @parallel_type=>@cpus)
<havenwood> comp_template_sizes = comp_template_map { |template_fname|
<arubin> Perhaps he does just mean postfix conditionals/statement modifiers.
<ShaneD> I thought that initially, but thought they are just syntactic sugar for regular conditionals.
<arubin> ShaneD: The fact that they are postfix does not make them any more special for avoiding expensive computation though.
<ShaneD> The question makes it seem like they have some special powers regular conditionals don't.
<havenwood> bnagy: Or shorter var names? :P I don't see a pleasant way to break it up.
<ShaneD> I was worried I was missing some common pattern used before doing expensive assignments. Oh well, I guess I will just miss this one.
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<arubin> ShaneD: The shortcut behavior of some of the logical operators can help with that, but I am not sure how they could be called "post-conditional".
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<bnagy> havenwood: first is a good idea, if Parallel will return an Enumerator for that
<ShaneD> arubin: I was under the same impression.
<bnagy> havenwood: nah no dice. :/ It's not a 'real' map, sadly
<havenwood> bnagy: Argh, too bad. Heh.
<bnagy> going to have to live with 103 cols for now :(
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<bnagy> havenwood: I refactored Parallel.map collection, blah, &blk into a method, fyi
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<NemesisD> is zentest deprecated with minitest 5 or something?
<NemesisD> i get a bunch of warnings when running autotest
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<injekt> NemesisD: minitest 5 spits out warnings for deprecated use
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<injekt> mostly the use of MiniTest which has been renamed to Minitest and MiniTest::Unit::TestCase to Minitest::Test
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<erikh> hello
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<eam> erikh: hello
<erikh> I am employed now
<eam> congrats
<erikh> about to break my code with the go race detector
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<bnagy> is there a Threadpool lib that work well with jruby? I usually use Parallel, but it is going bonkers atm
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<benlovell> bangy: also, you should head over to #jruby
<benlovell> derp, I meant bnagy.
<bnagy> benlovell: yeah, but it's usually dead there this time of day :)
<benlovell> bnagy: true dat.
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<benlovell> bnagy: you specifically want to look at executors. You can create threadpools from there.
<bnagy> I am looking, but I don't really want to build it myself out of java lego, because I don't really know what I am doing
<bnagy> Ideally someone would have made a jruby parallel map primitive :)
<benlovell> you can take a look in the celluloid examples for a simple pmap
<bnagy> otherwise if nobody has then I guess I'll have to
<benlovell> celluloid makes this stuff redonkulously easy
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<bnagy> yeah I was trying to avoid celluloid, just cause it's a gigantic codebase and it overlaps some stuff I already have
<lianj> sadly yes
<bnagy> but I guess I should give it a try, looks like 20 minutes work to port from Parallel to Celluloid Future
<bnagy> ok bbiab
<yorickpeterse> morning
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<woollyams> bnagy: I have a parallel map in pure Ruby. I'm pretty sure it works in JRuby.
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<woollyams> benlovell: Does the Celluloid example end up creating a Thread for every collection element, simultaneously, or is it backed by a thread pool?
<bnagy> the naiev way seems to create a Thread per
<bnagy> *naive
<bnagy> wiki says that you can use Actors if you need to limit to n threads
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<bnagy> does Lazily have RO access to scope vars from within the block?
<woollyams> bnagy: Has access to the binding, yeah.
<bnagy> k cool, I can use it as a drop-in then
<woollyams> bnagy: Yeah, the simple way is collection.map { |x| Thread.new { stuff_with(x) }}.map { |thread| thread.join.value }
<bnagy> celluloid pmap is working
<benlovell> woollyams: pooled
<woollyams> benlovell: Cool.
<woollyams> bnagy: But the "simple way" creates a Thread explosion for large collections.
<bnagy> benlovell: really? is the pool in the Future code somewhere?
<benlovell> L11
<benlovell> this defers to celluloid's internal threadpool
<bnagy> cool, thanks :)
<judofyr> sure, it will re-use threads, but if you have X number of Future objects they will all be backed by a X threads
<bnagy> it's a lot faster if someone knows the codebase :)
<bnagy> maybe I'll try woollyams stuff, since the pmap stuff iswell isolated now
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<judofyr> woollyams: so yes and no: it's backed by a thread pool (so threads might be re-used), but if you use pmap it will cause a thread to exist for every element in the collection
<bnagy> ok so still thread explosion :/
<bnagy> I wrote around that, but it's still ugly
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<judofyr> you can use MyKlass.pool though
<drbrain> hehehe, I wrote a tool to count the number of objects allocated by loading a Marshal stream
<woollyams> bnagy: Er, perhaps stay away from Lazily#in_threads on JRuby for now. Looks like I have some thread-safety issues to sort out.
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<bnagy> d'oh
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<bnagy> judofyr: is there a simple example for adding a pool based pmap to Enumerable, for example?
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<bnagy> the celluloided version of my code was fast, but the collection sizes are not insane
<bnagy> or can you just globally restrict the internal celluloid threadpool size?
<judofyr> bnagy: you can't restrict the internal threadpool. not sure how to implement using a pool.
<bnagy> hrm
<bnagy> maybe I'll wait and see if I can blow it up :)
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<bnagy> looks nice... the first pmap is left over, or what?
<judofyr> yes
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<bnagy> what happens with nested pmaps? you get workers ** 2?
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<judofyr> don't do that :)
<judofyr> pools in pools are not recommended
<bnagy> I _knew_ you were going to say that, but what's the answer? :)
<rolfb> inception!
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<bnagy> anyway, let me drop it in and test perf
<bnagy> hrm. stack explosions and crashing pool manager
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<bnagy> judofyr: it doesn't seem to exit the pmap block, for me? runs the last statement then hangs
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<woollyams> bnagy: It might still be worth you giving Lazily a look. I've found a bug, but it doesn't appear to be JRuby-specific.
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<bnagy> woollyams: yeah, I have it in place at the moment
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<corecode> class_eval + @@class_variable from extending Module = no fun
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<judofyr> class variables are never fun
<corecode> well, same for constants
<judofyr> but constants are constants
<judofyr> err
<judofyr> constants are constant
<corecode> but access semantics are the same
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<yorickpeterse> US only again
<yorickpeterse> because everbody only lives in the US, right?
<matti> :(
<andrewvos> Yeah
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<andrewvos> Well, actually because it's a very large country and getting it to work in one country is probably the quickest win.
<andrewvos> Can you imagine integrating with banks in the UK, for example, yorickpeterse?
<bnagy> yeah but US banks are paleolithic
<bnagy> like... they use cheques. I seen em do it!
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<andrewvos> Dyammm
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<andrewvos> But anyway, that argument is kind of frail
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: banking in the EU is still in the stone ages in a lot of ways
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<andrewvos> My point exactly
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<m4n> test
<bnagy> AUGH MY EYE YOU TESTED MY EYE!!
<m4n> go fix your keyboard
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<rajix> hi
<rajix> could somehelp help me understand why ruby symbols are efficient when used as hash keys instead of plain strings ? or point me to a place where I can get this info ?
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<bnagy> they can be, especially if you make lots of copies of them
<yorickpeterse> rajix: symbols are only created once and then re-used
<bnagy> basically there is only one copy of :foo, but there can be many String objects that are "foo"
<rajix> so memory efficient because they are immutable ?
<bnagy> trouble is the whole "use symbols as Hash keys ALWAYS" thing falls down as soon as you interop with anything via serialisation
<rajix> hmm
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<bnagy> they're pretty fly when you use them for method hash arguments though
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<rajix> so with ruby two objects pointing to same string say "foo" will create two copies of the string "foo" (unlike python where both the objects point to the same memory location)
<rajix> ?
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<bnagy> no
<bnagy> >> a="hi"; b=a; b.upcase; p a
<eval-in> bnagy => "hi" ... (http://eval.in/30497)
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<bnagy> >> a="hi"; b=a; b.upcase!; p a
<eval-in> bnagy => "HI" ... (http://eval.in/30498)
<bnagy> DAMMIT
<bnagy> :P
<bnagy> rajix: it's more like this:
<bnagy> >> id=[]; 10.times do; a='foo'; id << a.object_id; end; p id
<eval-in> bnagy => [545360360, 545360350, 545360340, 545360330, 545360320, 545360290, 545360280, 545360270, 545360260, 545360250] ... (http://eval.in/30499)
<bnagy> repeatedly creating a string and assigning it will leave object corpses that the GC has to deal with
<bnagy> >> id=[]; 10.times do; a=:foo; id << a.object_id; end; p id
<eval-in> bnagy => [198568, 198568, 198568, 198568, 198568, 198568, 198568, 198568, 198568, 198568] ... (http://eval.in/30501)
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<rajix> yep got it … with symbols I see the same id being allocated for multiple repetitions … (python works the same way with strings like how ruby works with symbols in terms of memory allocation) … Thanks a lot bnagy…!!!
<bnagy> python strings are immutable?
<rajix> >>> a = "string1"
<eval-in> rajix => /tmp/execpad-7aab67328522/source-7aab67328522:2: syntax error, unexpected '>' ... (http://eval.in/30507)
<rajix> >>> b = "string1"
<eval-in> rajix => /tmp/execpad-fafb3a5f0899/source-fafb3a5f0899:2: syntax error, unexpected '>' ... (http://eval.in/30508)
<rajix> >>> id(a)
<eval-in> rajix => /tmp/execpad-f356e1bf481e/source-f356e1bf481e:2: syntax error, unexpected '>' ... (http://eval.in/30509)
<rajix> 4299812752
<rajix> >>> id(b)
<eval-in> rajix => /tmp/execpad-a830a9c81a4d/source-a830a9c81a4d:2: syntax error, unexpected '>' ... (http://eval.in/30510)
<rajix> 4299812752
<rajix> >>>
<eval-in> rajix => /tmp/execpad-61ae40d4ce8e/source-61ae40d4ce8e:2: syntax error, unexpected '>' (http://eval.in/30511)
<rajix> this is with python
<bnagy> so they must be immutable, right?
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<rajix> yep
<bnagy> it's a style, I guess...
<rajix> works the same with all primitives , integer, float etc...
<rajix> in python
<rajix> ruby is a lil different … (just getting started :-P )
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<apeiros> rajix: how about you *not* starting your code pastes with >>
<apeiros> so you don't trigger the bot
<rajix> sorry about that … that was my first attempt to "copy paste" on free node … will take care in future … :)
<apeiros> rajix: also as per the topic - paste >3 lines on a paste service please. preferably gist.github.com.
<yorickpeterse> speaking about the bot, it's output needs to be trimmed
<yorickpeterse> no point in showing the full path of an error for example
<rajix> sure ...
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: ping charliesome abou tit
<yorickpeterse> he's not online
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<bnagy> well ping him on twitter, DUH
<bnagy> this is clearly a matter of the utmost urgency ;)
<apeiros> indeed!
<apeiros> nobody got his cell?
<tbuehlmann> just the red telephone
<bnagy> it's not even 11pm yet in Melbourne
<bnagy> totally fine to call him
<bnagy> >> 1/0
<eval-in> bnagy => /tmp/execpad-ae6be0a16b4b/source-ae6be0a16b4b:2:in `/': divided by 0 (ZeroDivisionError) ... (http://eval.in/30512)
<bnagy> INTOLERABLE
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<zzak> >> charliesome.send(:<3)
<eval-in> zzak => /tmp/execpad-0f7c91e81a4a/source-0f7c91e81a4a:2: syntax error, unexpected tINTEGER, expecting ')' ... (http://eval.in/30515)
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<matti> LOL
<matti> zzak: ;d
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<mztriz> Hi everyone. I need help with something but I'm not sure what to call it. Dynamically adding code maybe? Here's what I have http://pastie.org/private/hcllehv8p8e2gce0lnc0a
<injekt> mztriz: why are you dynically writing ruby code and then trying to execute it?
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<mztriz> I loaded in a CSV file to a hash and then I get information out of the hash to write the code in the format that rChart needs it in
<mztriz> so I can generate a chart
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<gnufied> injekt: because it sounded like a good idea at that time.
<injekt> gnufied: yeah, right after 'bro, hold my beer'
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<mztriz> Obviously I don't know what I'm doing... That's why I'm aksing for help
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<mztriz> injekt what do you suggest I do instead of the way I showed in my pastie?
<injekt> mztriz: I would read the csv and send the information right into your Rdata object
<injekt> you don't do any sorting of any kind anyway, so you could read your csv row by row and generate the graph on the fly
<mztriz> injekt: that is only a very small part of my code and there is sorting involved
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<mztriz> I guess for that part there isnt though
<injekt> mztriz: then you should nmake sure you paste all relevant parts, it's hard to help
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<mztriz> injekt:http://pastie.org/private/vhsqh4u0iltip3wt9v96og
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<injekt> mztriz: I dont understand, just dont use strings
<injekt> mztriz: points.each { |sn, v| p.add_point(...) }
<mztriz> injekt: I don't know I think I tried it that way and it didn't like it, but I'll look at it again. Thanks for helping me out.
<injekt> mztriz: sure, let us know if you need any more help, im heading out now but there's plenty of people to help you out
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<whitequark> yep
<whitequark> he's a very good writer and illustrator.
<whitequark> (or she)
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<mbj> whitequark: Did you reintroduced cvdecl in parser-1.3.4?
<mbj> Tought it was removed.
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<whitequark> mbj: it was removed in 2.0
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<mbj> whitequark: So I'll see cvdecl nodes in lt 2.0 parse modes?
<whitequark> mbj: in parser 2.0, that is... master (unreleased)
<whitequark> in parser 1.x there are still cvdecl nodes
<whitequark> and cdecl
<mbj> whitequark: okay, I get situration. Was confused. Thx.
<mbj> whitequark: Do you expect 2.0 soon?
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<whitequark> mbj: not sure when.
<mbj> whitequark: ok, thx.
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<PhilG> hi
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<PhilG> I have started to write tests for an idea I have had, does somebody want to look at it?
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<havenwood> PhilG: I'll bite. What testing framework you using? Post a link?
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<ruby-lang858> Hi all
<havenwood> ruby-lang858: hey
<ruby-lang858> Does anyone know why wget would work from the cli but when put into a ruby script it gives a 403 error?
<apeiros> ruby-lang858: different env variables
<ruby-lang858> apeiros: how would i set them?
<apeiros> I'd first verify that this is indeed the problem
<ruby-lang858> How would i do that sorry?
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<apeiros> you'd open a shell, unset about every env variable and see whether you get a 403. there might be nicer ways to do that.
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<ruby-lang858> would it put the variables back?
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<ruby-lang858> when i re-open another shell
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<havenwood> ruby-lang858: Yeah
<ruby-lang858> how do i unset the variables, sorry to be a nuisance
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<badeball> env -i
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<ruby-lang858> thank you
<badeball> man page will probably explain it
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<badeball> env -i <command> runs a command with an empty environment
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<ruby-lang858> it dosn't recognize env -i wget
<havenwood> ruby-lang858: Try: env -i `which wget`
<badeball> run wget with complete path within the empty environment, like env -i /usr/bin/wget (assuming that that is where your wget resides)
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<PhilG> havenwood: https://c9.io/philg/tifi
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<havenwood> PhilG: Yay for Minitest! :)
<ruby-lang858> ok i got it working i did env -i /usr/local/bin/wget but it fetches the file so there is nothing wrong with my variables?
<badeball> maybe there is something wrong with the environment that your ruby script runs in
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<badeball> run env -i /usr/local/bin/wget
<badeball> from within your ruby script
<badeball> eh, nevermind me. don't do that. i'm stupid.
<ruby-lang858> lol ok
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<ruby-lang858> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden 2013-05-16 19:04:14 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
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<ruby-lang858> thats the error i get when running it within ruby, but the file downloads if i run it within the shell
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<ruby-lang858> Any more ideas :( its driving me mad! lol
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<PhilG> havenwood: thanks :)
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<ruby-lang858> It seems to be something to do with downloading from amazon s3
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<PhilG> havenwood: So what do you think?
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<havenwood> PhilG: <3 minitest/pride, yay! I like the Spec style you use, not to deeply nested.
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<havenwood> PhilG: I'd be curious what a more experienced TDDer would suggest regarding testing class and method existence as well as functionality.
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<PhilG> Fine, thanks! My problem now is, that in order write and implement the last tests I would have to use the other classes, which I haven't done anything on.. So should I just start testing them and come back to the Runner class?
<havenwood> PhilG: So you are considering whether to Mock or go create the dependent class?
<havenwood> PhilG: It depends I suppose. A Mockist and a Classist might tell you different answers. I don't know!
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<havenwood> PhilG: Definitely take a look at Minitest::Mock. Avdi wrote a blog post that I think raises some interesting ideas: http://devblog.avdi.org/2011/09/06/making-a-mockery-of-tdd/
<PhilG> havenwood: That is essentially what I was thinking about. Either I need to pass in an instance of the dependent class (which would make it mockable) or I go and implement and use the actual production class
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<yorickpeterse> I am home, finally
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<rue> Hooray
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<banisterfiend> zenspider: you here?
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<erikh> no but I am
<erikh> talk to me sexy
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<zenspider> zzak: you want to do the PR or should I?
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<feoh> Evening
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