<rjeffries>
Asus announced a THIN $200 Netbook that runs Meego.
2011-07-03
<rjeffries>
Zigduino is a bit pricey $69, but would be a pretty useful stand-alone target for atben or atusb.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I assume the ATmega128RFA1 on the Ziguino could be convined to talk to youre atben and or atusb. Just a matter of software, right? ;)
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul did you see my question about your shipment of atben/atusb from Spain. Has it arrived?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if you want a fancy solution, make a PCB with pogo pins that touches the test points.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (vga i/o) you'd have to either solder to the test points under the battery, or make an FPC and connect instead of the LCM.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: the ben's SoC can do up to 800x600. considering that ubb-vga manages 1024x768 with semi-reasonable timing, i don't think 800x600 would be too difficult to get right.
<rjeffries>
that will be some VERY compact machine code;(
<rjeffries>
seen tuxbrain
<rjeffries>
wpwrak pardon my ignorance, but what would be used as i/o with ben?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: you shuold be able to have VGA with the ben already. just make an 8 bit analog RGB mixer and program the LCD controller accordingly
<rjeffries>
capacitive touch screen technolgy is a commodity now
<zear>
rjeffries, 2x the current res would make a lot of X11 apps usable
<rjeffries>
has 4770 been seen in the wild? we know there are tablets based on 4760
<zear>
rjeffries, then just add a touchscreen and you have tons of software perfect for the nanonote
<rjeffries>
640x480
<rjeffries>
oh 64x480 would be sweet yes
<rjeffries>
zear i expect a nanonote 2.0 will support somewhat greater resolution on the lcd, but probably nothing radically better
<rjeffries>
I tried to gey data sheet on 4770 but ingenic site seemed to time out
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: i gues you aware of last 4770 ingenic chip ;)
<zear>
rjeffries, well, sdl apps will also be very laggy
<zear>
rjeffries, unless you don't mind running 320x240 on a TV screen
<rjeffries>
any follow-on to Ben will use a considerably faster cpu. amd will support much better memory bandwidth
<rjeffries>
maybe. but the use case for me is simply a larger screen. not watching videos.
<zear>
rjeffries, the hardware would then need to support running programs at a decent framerate in higher res
<rjeffries>
if there is ever a next Nanonote, in addition to 802.15.4 being built-in, I'd vote to also have VGA (prolly using a chip rather that wpwrak's magic
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: in the 1970ies, the avantgarde were the DJs. 20 years later, the VJs. 20 years later again, the UBB-Jockeys ;-)
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul you are correct. wonder wht happened with the Hope RF module project
<kristianpaul>
ah, there is 433Mhz too using rfm12b modules rjeffries
<rjeffries>
the only (slight) bummer is one must choose to EITHER do VGA OR 802.15.4 OR AM radio transmitter.
2011-06-26
<rjeffries>
wpwrak the over the air data rate is expected to be...maybe 250 Kbps correct? goodput woud be less
<rjeffries>
fyi all US manufacturers are observinf ROHS standard. not sure if it is law, butsince any product may ship to EU i is effectiely required.
2011-06-25
<rjeffries>
is GMT +8 (usa pacific daylight time zone) is now 11:42am Saturday
<rjeffries>
cool.I just learned about the $2K fee to get a USB address block. I assume Wolfgang had tp pomy up? it really sucks.
<rjeffries>
anybody home this fine Saturday?
2011-06-24
<[g2]>
rjeffries ping.
<rjeffries>
GNUtoo|bug20 what is the connectivity between BugBase and the add-on modules?
2011-06-23
<rjeffries>
it can be used with Linux Ethergadter s/w to provide a connection to a Linux PC, and thence to the internet
<rjeffries>
good analogy. Nanonote can NOT attach to e.g. USB drives, or a USB WiFi stick, ora USB Flash drive. it has the same type of connection as those other devices
<rjeffries>
Nanonote USB is a device port, not host
2011-06-22
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: of course it is. what did you expect - an iKeyboard, hand-carved from a block of magnesium ? ;-)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak well, it is a kludge however
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: seems you've found what you're looking for :)
<rjeffries>
here we go: a hack that might connect a real keyboard to Ben Nanonote over Werner's atben + a gadget in the middle.
<rjeffries>
wo;s[taul what doe you pay in China for a data plan?
<rjeffries>
from am arduino board re xmega: "Event System" that enables the peripherals, in conjunction with the DMA controllers, to do a lot of "common" things without having to involve the CPU at all.  Aside from allowing higher performance if the CPU is awake, this also allows the CPU to spend more time in assorted SLEEP modes, consuming less power.
<wpwrak>
roh, rjeffries: (at86rf230) a crappy predecessor. good luck with all its race conditions ;-)
<roh>
rjeffries: afaik thats the predecessor of the one on the atusb/ben
<rjeffries>
at86rf230 ? I think..?
<rjeffries>
whatever they say in marketing-ese the device looks good
<[g2]>
rjeffries, around later ?  I've got run out for lunch.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: for an easier start, you may want to consider TQFP/SSOP/SIOC/etc. packages. they have little feet. they're quite easy to solder. QFN need a bit more experience, so they're not ideal for a smooth first-time experience.
<[g2]>
rjeffries, also, I've only used leaded solder, haven't tried the silver RHOS stuff yet.
<[g2]>
rjeffries, I've toyed with making a TQFN version
<rjeffries>
so have you built up a femtoduino yet? it is so clever. almost TOO small
<rjeffries>
how difficult was the home brew surface mount stuff
<rjeffries>
have you been commenting on the femtoduino list?I read that list
<rjeffries>
well I am not an engineer but I think about doing stuff
<[g2]>
rjeffries, yup that's me
<rjeffries>
the reason is that Ben Nanonote could then be a human interface for remote sensor stations connected wirelessly
<[g2]>
rjeffries, it's all good.
<rjeffries>
g2 I am the person wpwrak was referring to above about thinking about as opposed to doing a standalobe board that is arduino-ish plus the 802.15.4 radio
<[g2]>
rjeffries, hi
<rjeffries>
sorry... g2Â Â sheesh
<rjeffries>
g3 are you here?
2011-06-19
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: so-so. quite often, it just leads you astray. also, doesn't always things that are on sites it "knows about"
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: but yes, if desperate, that's one place to try
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: your choices: 1) use atusb (mainly an execise in writing software), 2) make your own atusb variant (hint: the design files are open for a reason ;-), 3) get something like http://www.logos-electro.com/zigduino/
<rjeffries>
but.... 8:10 slot will be occupied by the atben rf module. I did not make my intention/goal clear: want a REMOTE, wireless connection o a platform that supports i2c sensors (and ideally also supports other sensors )
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: there's even a kernel driver that does this. but it would be easy enough to do in user space as well. for the physical interface, use UBB
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: you'd have to write that too, of course :)
<rjeffries>
adding i2c somehow to Ben is looking better and better. ;)
<rjeffries>
what puzzles me is how atusb as a standalone will have protocol smarts to talk to atusb or atben over 802.15.4 + whatever higher level protocol
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (careful with the ground plane at the bottom, though)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if all you want is I2C, you could just hack a bit-banging I2C driver for atusb, then attach your sensor(s) to the test points. they have 0.1 in spacing, so you could even drill holes and use a header
<rjeffries>
levrrasging astusb even if more expensive (doh) has advantage that it exists and is Known To Work. maybe lashing it together with some off the shelf Arduino talking serial between atben and Arduino would be a kludgy but ok way to start, no hardwra eneed be developed
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: alas, no hw I2C on that chip. but you could write a bit-banging master, why not
<rjeffries>
one really wants/needs i2c as many sensors support that
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: there are the ones used for ICSP. gives you three general-purpuse GPIOs plus power
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: admittedly not a lot
<rjeffries>
wpwrak in your atusb there were io pins you did not expose correct?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if you use the same MCU, you could even reuse the same firmware
<rjeffries>
roh that is worth investigating
<rjeffries>
Ornotermrd long time no see
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yup, you could use either the MCU from atusb, or make a non-USB device
<rjeffries>
)dupe_ lekernel when you are ready to investigate asic this is a low entry cost vendor
<rjeffries>
Fabio Varesano's MS thesis is interesting. Uses KiCad. CC Sharealike license. He di Femtoduino as well as a cool 9 degrees of moyopm boatf that Spark Fun the redeigned and munged up. ;)
<wpwrak>
dvdk: whitequark's patent lawyers should be asleep now. maybe we can sneak ours in via rejon or rjeffries in the us ;-)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: we need your instinct as a native english speaker: "the ugly details", "the 'ugly' details", or "the (ugly) details" ? when the intended meaning is "intricate", with a dose of irony
<rjeffries>
troh you are correct, and so am I. WiFi access is virtually ubiquitous. I can't go to my fave coffee shop and plug wpwrak 's dongle in and connect. ;)
<roh>
rjeffries: find a 'mobile access point/bridge' hardware with an usb port and see if openwrt is useable for it
<roh>
rjeffries: i know there are devices like that, even battery operated ones. usually with also a ethernet connector. to use in a hotel room for example
<rjeffries>
WiFi gives one a single-ended soution for internet connectivity, at say your fav coffee shop. the wonderful 802.15.4 stuff is two ended, so will work at you home just fine, but not at a public wfifi hot spot.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: you'd be surprised by how many people here are rather successful at avoiding the evil day star ;)
<rjeffries>
being anti-WiFi is a charming notion. Reminds me of being opposed to the sun rising each day.
2011-06-14
<DocScrutinizer>
rjeffries: I missed any pricetag for that 8ch-logprobe
<DocScrutinizer>
rjeffries: the ad gave me LULZ
<rjeffries>
ok I do not know enough to judge
<rjeffries>
are the specs similar?
<rjeffries>
ok
<GNUtoo>
rjeffries, what about the FLOSS one?
<rjeffries>
wpwrak what do you think of this tool, for the money?
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer the chan topic reads fine IMO
2011-06-13
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: he should have done that last week :) if he sends them now, i'll have them around friday or maybe even next tuesday (monday is a holiday). i don't think he'll have the patience to delay selling them so long ;-)
<rjeffries>
tuxbrain here's an idea. go ahead and ship 2 ea of atben and atUSB to werner wpwrak TODAY so that we overlap shipping elapsed time with the obgoing testing and debugging
<rjeffries>
antoni' bo, nanonote only has USB device, nor USB host
<rjeffries>
s/bo/no
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: hmm. no board thickness mentioned. presumably only 1.6 mm. but that's okay for many DIY projects.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak as background info FYI this is an especially good deal for PCBs in USA
<rjeffries>
so did someone say SIE may awaken, sans FPGA? that could be interesting in a hackerish way
<rjeffries>
wpwrak one reason to find a way to leverage Ben USB cleint port as opposed to something on UBB 8"10 port is one wouold like to have atben radiop at same time as an external USB keyboard
<whitequark>
rjeffries: not at all. I do question whether an USB host done entirely in software is possible at all
<rjeffries>
do you question how valuable a more useable keybaord is?
<rjeffries>
whitequark: USB Host mode allows external (good) keyboard and a mpuse
<whitequark>
rjeffries: I know what USB host may be used for :)
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer I have ZERO desire to add an external MCU. Ben useability would improve a LOT by having external keyboard and mouse, and doing that your way would be Most Excellent
<DocScrutinizer>
rjeffries: OMAP3430, but that's mostly irellevant for USB hostmode (modulo the fact the OMAP3430 MUSB core made by mentorgraphics was a real bitch to convince to do hostmode)
<DocScrutinizer>
rjeffries: yes, but why going this tedious awkward path of a micro-host with all the non-standard drivers etc pp, when you can mod the USB on NN to play host role?
<rjeffries>
docScrutinizer remin me what SOC the N900 uses
<rjeffries>
little AVR computers are ridiculously cheap now. the PCB for this ultra tiny one is about $1 $SD. plus BOM and assembly
<DocScrutinizer>
rjeffries: believe me, there's a lot of usecases for USB hostmode you'd not even think about
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer to my mind, there are two use cases, but are Human Interface Devices: mouse and keyboard
<rjeffries>
wpwrak those would connect two usb hosts together, correct?
<rjeffries>
what do you mean DocScrutinizer ??
<DocScrutinizer>
rjeffries: there are such contraptions, called USB-network or USB-sync-cable or whatever, usually used to link two windows desktop PCs via USB
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: still working on getting the qi-hw news extolling my exploits to places the local females visit. maybe i should just print the community news and hang a banner from the building. i have the faculty of psychology right across the street, so there would be no shortage of test subjects :)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: step 1: find the sources. check if they're complete. see if there are any binary-only drivers in there. if yes, figure out how to replace them or how to live without them.
<rjeffries>
s/OpenWet/OpenWrt  lol
<rjeffries>
how is that working for you, wpwrak? ;)
<rjeffries>
if you start with a working Android tablet (has linux underneath) what would be the path to getting OpenWet or Jlime limping along?
<rjeffries>
low and slow
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yes, sales are quite slow
<rjeffries>
the Pipermail system would strip out HTML me thinks
<rjeffries>
the Ben sales of qrt 1,200 Wolfgang mentioned earlier implies that Ben sales run rate now is very low
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: so you're using a web browser. yes, that would be HTML :)
<rjeffries>
unrelated
<rjeffries>
maybe so. but qi-hardware mail is not "pretty" my mail client is Google mail
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: maybe you're reading them as HTML ?
<rjeffries>
I get Jane's email via the qi-hardware mailer and can read them ok
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: may be 4760-based then. that chip looks pretty decent. well, even the 4720 we have could do better. e.g., the DRAM and NAND bus are only half as wide as the chip could do. this has a cost ...
<rjeffries>
wpwrak a few weeks ago I mentioned a $199 or so android capacotive touch tablet that uses Ingenic SOC can't remember the brand it had pretty good hardware specs
<rjeffries>
Fusin  qiots -- what a lovely term. ;)
<rjeffries>
M1 supports some interaces that would not be needed in a general purpose SOC.
<rjeffries>
do you think MM will cost $100,000 for the first pass to asic
<rjeffries>
wpwrak when the time comes you'll understand
<rjeffries>
that FPGA is only $40
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: digitalizing pop corn ? one tiny little chip per ... duh, fluffily exploded kernel ;-)
<rjeffries>
one wonders what the fisrt run of asic from Milkymist might cost.
<rjeffries>
yes need LOTS of them. the simplicity is a design objective.
<rjeffries>
clock speed is less than 100Mhz
<rjeffries>
the design is fewer than 10K gates. the process is an older node, similar to what Ingenic uses.
<rjeffries>
I am working with a startup that is almost ready to do firt asic run. that is a real number
<rjeffries>
s/firt/first
<rjeffries>
current cost is $20,000 USD. less than what I guessed
<rjeffries>
wish to share a factoid re cost to go from FPGA to asic
<rjeffries>
the man who never sleeps
<rjeffries>
wpwrak are you awake?
2011-06-05
<rjeffries>
wpwrak consider using zero 0 as symbol to represent input low w/o pull=up
<rjeffries>
they are biting off a small bite I agree but also feel it is useful
<rjeffries>
so we ag ree: there is one and only one Wolfgang Spraul. Is that a bug, or a feature> <smile>
<rjeffries>
all I am saying is that particular outfit is running a little business that may be helpful to their customers, they sahre some DNAm yes. ;)
<rjeffries>
ben used proprietary tools. give me a break
<rjeffries>
it is a free project they admit to using some proprietary tools
<rjeffries>
everybody does not have to shar your exact vision
<rjeffries>
that was on a board design I was looking at. look, they have their heart in the right area. they are not competing with you.
<rjeffries>
Microbuilder license: This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License. Use of this design should be attributed to: microBuilder.eu.
<wolfspraul>
rjeffries: url? is that for all content on their site?
<rjeffries>
since you liked that one so much... ;)
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: at least not same licesing goals..
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul they develop for ARM, Nanonote uses a proprietaty SOC from Ingenic. I was not promoting them, just mentioning that they have similar goals
<rjeffries>
irx log is not reachable by me, for now
2011-05-28
<rjeffries>
s/into/in/
<rjeffries>
wpwrak wolfspraul does not show interest into Nanonote follow-on. MM is his focus, period.
2011-05-19
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: only that tuxbrain said last week that he'd make sure he'll set a day aside for going through the testing process this week.
2011-05-17
<rjeffries>
wpwrak thanks for unconfusing me
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if the MCU needs to initiate a communication, it would use an interrupt line for this purpose
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: however, since SPI data is bi-directional, there's usually no problem designing your protocol such that the Ben can be the master, and the MCU, with generally more predictable response time, can be slave
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: no, the ben can't do SPI slave easily. its hardware SPI controller is master only. when doing it with bit-banging, you could theoretically implement slave, but you'd have to worry about timing. (i.e., the SPI clock would have to be quite slow)
<rjeffries_>
this article got me thinking. actually, for general utility with an AVR/Arduino sensor node, two-way communication with Ben as Master would be great
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak prolly a dumb question, but how general is the SPI driver in Ben? Could Ben perform as SPI slave (pure curiosity)
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: Ethernet where?
<rjeffries>
Milkymist is a possibility. it costs $500
<rjeffries>
but that project withered on the vine
<rjeffries>
it implemented handy things like I2C and Ethernet and oiptionally could have an LCD
<rjeffries>
about a year ago there was an interesting project that married the COC used by Nanonote with an FPGA. removed keyboard, freeing a bunch of GPIOs
<rjeffries>
scanf Nanonote is a cute and clever little device. IMOI it is not a good match for what you need to do. very lkimited i/o ports
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yes it's cute. take a ben, put in ubb-vga, wrap some duct tape around it so that you don't see that it has screen and keyboard, and voila, you have pretty much the same :)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: this deivce has been mentioned about a dozen times here already, besides making pretty much all the major and minor news outlets ;-)
<qwebirc48371>
is rjeffries on a computer with no smuxi client
2011-05-12
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: ... considering that the device plugs into USB for power already, etc. also, for OTA, you would then have to address authentication.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: sure, you can always add OTA. just kinda inconvenient in our case :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak for FUTURE consderaton over the air updates. see this note from a commercial ZiBee outfit