kyak changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<DocScrutinizer05> LOL
<DocScrutinizer05> pilot, how dull could you be to not notice a cat sitting on the wing of your UL
<kyak> poor thing
<kyak> but what an adventure!
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<wpwrak> maybe the cat hopped on after he checked. or maybe he was too busy reassuring his girlfriend. she does seem to be a bit tense.
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<kyak> so i've got that phone with 2A charger (out of the box). Would it be bad if i charge it with 1A charger?
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<DocScrutinizer05> possibly
<DocScrutinizer05> depends on the charger signaling
<DocScrutinizer05> and whether the phone cares about such thing or simply assumes 2A
<DocScrutinizer05> absolutely worst case your charger will go up in flames
<DocScrutinizer05> more likely the charger will cut out on OC prot and no charging happens at all
<DocScrutinizer05> ideally the phone notices and reduces charge current accordingly so charger is happy
<DocScrutinizer05> simply test it
<kyak> ok, so i better buy another 2A charger :) thanks!
<DocScrutinizer05> when the charger gets very hot, sth is odd and you should stop the experiment
<DocScrutinizer05> otherwise just see if it charges to full in acceptable time
<kyak> if everything's fine, it should charge for approx. two times longer?
<DocScrutinizer05> it's probably safe to assume that all chargers are short / OC resilient
<DocScrutinizer05> err not even 2 times
<DocScrutinizer05> the 2A take effect only during initial maybe 30min
<DocScrutinizer05> after that the charge current dropped to a level that doesn't matter for 1A vs 2A
<kyak> oh, i rememeberd i have an usb-in-the-middle kinf of thing that can show current
<kyak> i'll measure how much it actually consumes
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> keep in mind that the current depends on discharge level of battery
<DocScrutinizer05> only from 0% to maybe 15% it will charge with maximum current
<kyak> ok, i got it
<DocScrutinizer05> after that the charge current drops more or less linearly to 0 when battery full
<DocScrutinizer05> that's why 2A charger is never twice as fast as 1A
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<kyak> if i don't discharge to less than 20%, i probably won't need those 2A
<DocScrutinizer05> it is more like 1.2 times
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, exactly
<kyak> ok, thanks for your advice
<DocScrutinizer05> the 20% however are a number you need to evaluate by experiment
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<DocScrutinizer05> might be 30% or even 50%
<DocScrutinizer05> depends on battery and phone circuit
<kyak> and that's what i'll find out using that usb thing
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, excellent plan
<kyak> it looks liek this
<DocScrutinizer05> :-) thanks!
<kyak> at 60%, it draws 1.05A, meaning thatit maxes out this charger at this moment
<kyak> i should measure with the 2A one
<DocScrutinizer05> it may stay at that level down to 0%, when the phone actually notices that it's the charger's maximum
<kyak> which i don't have at hand at the moment -\
<DocScrutinizer05> the phone has at least 2 ways to detect this
<DocScrutinizer05> up to anybody's guess if it actually does any of the both
<DocScrutinizer05> or up to your tests to prove yay or nay
<kyak> one way i'm guessing is from software, by measuring how charge is changing. .What's the other?
<DocScrutinizer05> one way is to detect voltage drop of charger when it maxes out. The other is by signaling which is done via D+/- lines
<DocScrutinizer05> the latter is the more commonly used method
<DocScrutinizer05> actually there are two or three different variants of it
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#neo900 bd
<infobot> i guess #neo900 bd is http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1445200#post1445200
<kyak> this usb-in-the-middle thing might affect the D+/- lines though
<DocScrutinizer05> check the charger chip datasheet
<DocScrutinizer05> o.O that would be bad
<DocScrutinizer05> (datasheet) it has a nice sum up of how the signaling works
<kyak> ha, it's up to tests then :)
<DocScrutinizer05> the voltage drop method basically works like do increase-current until delta-voltage>0.4V; decrease current by one step
<DocScrutinizer05> this method is _not_ safe. some chagers have no voltage drop and still they overheat
<DocScrutinizer05> rare but possible
<DocScrutinizer05> some notebooks are like this, they don't have voltage drop on USB port but simply break on overcurrent
<kyak> it doesn't seem to use this method, the current and voltage are pretty stable
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, it's not a commonly used method, as I said above
<kyak> it heats up, but doesn't burn hand
<DocScrutinizer05> most common method is D+/- resistor network. Closely followed by D+/- short
<kyak> i guess when it burns hands, it's too late :P
<DocScrutinizer05> it's quite possible that your 1A charger has a voltage drop to 4V or even 3.5V on >1A current, and that automatically reduces the current the phone _can_ draw
<DocScrutinizer05> can you test the voltage?
<kyak> the usb device shows 5.1- 5.2 V
<DocScrutinizer05> it *should* be 5V +/- a few
<DocScrutinizer05> that's great then
<kyak> so voltage drop is basically a protection from overcurrent?
<DocScrutinizer05> rather a natural physical consequence of overcurrent
<kyak> ah yeah, makes sense
<DocScrutinizer05> not always though. See blowfuse
<DocScrutinizer05> it blows when you connect too many heaters to your mains outlets, without voltage drop from 230V to 150V or whatever
<wpwrak> blowfuses drop the voltage, too ... :)
<DocScrutinizer05> laptops work in a similar way
<DocScrutinizer05> some at least
<kyak> i'm now getting all the phones i have at home and measuring their charge current :)
<kyak> older nokia phone, charged it in the morning, now it wouldn't even start charging, "battery full". In your face, android!
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<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: the cat was *inside* the wing
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<wpwrak> whoa. sloppy fabrication process ! :)
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<wpwrak> but indeed. good spotting ! that also explains why he never saw it coming :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> hmm, another 10h PC nonstop. time for a break
<DocScrutinizer05> you know sth is wrong with your life when the only two times you leave flat during the week are to buy new milk for coffee
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm actually grateful we have no delivery service for groceries here
<wpwrak> in joergtown, there is a city-wide pipe system for water (operates only once per week) and one for milk (non-stop), and coffee is traded by 100 kg bags
<DocScrutinizer05> I prefer a third pipe system ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> Rohrpost
<whitequark> wpwrak: I've spent quite a few minutes trying to think of a way to safely transfer milk city-wide
<whitequark> until I realized what "joergtown" means
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