<DocScrutinizer05>
harly propaganda unless the guy is made up completely
<DocScrutinizer05>
hardly*
jluis has joined #qi-hardware
arhuaco has left #qi-hardware ["Leaving"]
lars__ has joined #qi-hardware
lars__ has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
wej has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Quit: brb]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Client Quit]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
arhuaco has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
wej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
Nik05 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
FDCX has joined #qi-hardware
Nik05 has joined #qi-hardware
<kyak>
does it affect battery life if i always charge it from pc usb port?
<kyak>
i suspect it has killed my battery
<eintopf>
maybe, bad charger logic
<kyak>
after one or maybe two ywars
<eintopf>
okay after two years a battery can be damaged
<eintopf>
means very old and no capacity
<eintopf>
but depends on battery type
<kyak>
the battery is li-ino
<kyak>
*li-ion
<kyak>
it's a smart phone i'm charging
<kyak>
the battery has lost like 90% of it's capacity by now
<kyak>
when the phone dyes, it takes around 3 minutes to charge it to 100% with 500 mA USB port
<kyak>
:)
<eintopf>
normal hardware vendors let your smartphone die after two years
<kyak>
it might be some internal corruption of battery cells, i'm just wondering what would happen if i used the wall charger
<kyak>
well, i just ordered a new battery, 30% more capacity than original, so fuck you vendors :)
<eintopf>
yea, you can do that
<kyak>
and hail China!
<eintopf>
but the most people can't do it and buy newer models
<whitequark>
I wonder if it's due to horrible temperature conditions
<eintopf>
and that's how the complete earth and natural environment will die
<whitequark>
having a often-hot CPU in a cramped case is like the worst possible arrangement for battery life
<kyak>
this time i'll try using usb wall charger instead of my laptop usb port
<whitequark>
usb wall chargers usually provide *more* current than USB ports...
<kyak>
yeah, so maybe it's better for battery life?
<kyak>
because it would charge faster
<whitequark>
uhhh, what? no
<eintopf>
I already saw some thinkpad with yellow usb ports... they offer more ampere
<whitequark>
that's like the complete opposite
<kyak>
hm, so i in fact should go on charging from usb port?
<whitequark>
afaik li-ion life is mainly limited by heat, so by charging it faster you can only make it worse.
<eintopf>
faster -> more heat?
<whitequark>
I suppose
<whitequark>
yes
<eintopf>
ok
<kyak>
then usb port it is :)
<kyak>
the battery is a bit "fat" now
<kyak>
not flat like the new one
<eintopf>
so, you put it in the microwave?
<kyak>
not yet :)
<kyak>
i'm actually a little bit afraid of this old battery now. It looks like it's going to explode
<whitequark>
could also be just shitty battery
<kyak>
well, it served for around three years
<kyak>
i couldn't ask for more with today's batteries, i gues
<eintopf>
I like that qi-hardware make the possibility to insert nokia batteries into the nanonote
<eintopf>
but I don't have a nanonote :(
<whitequark>
well, my laptop's battery is almost three years old as well
<whitequark>
still retains about 64%
<kyak>
how do you measure?
<whitequark>
acpi -V
<kyak>
ah, so it's trustworthy?
<whitequark>
it has a fuel gauge that knows this thing
<whitequark>
well, mostly
<whitequark>
I know for sure that it doesn't correct for temperature, so if you charge it in a cold room and then bring in a hot one... voila, 114%
<eintopf>
maybe whitequark do also some tweaks... not full loading of battery
<eintopf>
first loading battery after 10%
<whitequark>
what?
<eintopf>
below 10%*
<kyak>
i'll see how my laptop is doing.. it's been constantly plugged into the power, i use it on battery only several times in ..two years
<eintopf>
there exist tweaks to extend the battery life
<eintopf>
not full load battery. Making recharge cycles
<whitequark>
afaik, most of those tweaks are obsolete after charge controllers
<whitequark>
they were invented in the time where "a diode" was an acceptable charging circuit
<eintopf>
mhh, don't know :(
<kyak>
i don't trust these tricks :) though i used one trick with this smartphone. When android reports 100% charge, i turn it off, and it charges some more time
<DocScrutinizer05>
oooh, and get rid of your swollen battery! it actually *might* explode
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw "high temperature" starts as low as 70°C
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually very low temperatures are allegedly also devastating to LiIon, but I can't tell about that from experience, while the other above facts are verified
<DocScrutinizer05>
or rather, particularly charging and (less severely) discharging at low temp. It seems the definitions of "low temp" varies between 0°C and -40°C
<DocScrutinizer05>
a usual pattern is: no charging below 0°C, no massive discharging below -20°C
<DocScrutinizer05>
kyak: ^^^
arhuaco has joined #qi-hardware
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: re 70°C: my SGS2 was heating up so much several times, I could not bear to hold it
<whitequark>
which should be about 70°C with plastics, maybe even more
<whitequark>
(water at 65°C is almost unbearable, but it transfers heat quicker and retains more of it)
<whitequark>
re low temperatures: I wonder if the reason is the various shifts in properties of semiconductor charger and battery at low temps where it doesn't know to compensate it
<whitequark>
like wouldn't the cell's max voltage go under 4.2V at low temp? so if you charge it with CV to 4.2¸ you're going to kill it
<ysionneau>
whitequark: were you using the "power saving" option? (which I think downclock the device)
<whitequark>
ysionneau: uhh no, it got stuck in some kind of GPU loop or something
<whitequark>
the battery discharged completely in under four minutes
<ysionneau>
wow
<ysionneau>
stock ROM?
<whitequark>
no, cyanogenmod, but it is usually *more* stable :P
<whitequark>
it was some flaky app.
<ysionneau>
ok, I have no issue with the power saving option on SGS3 stock rom, it saves battery and produces less heat
<ysionneau>
but the UX is slower
<ysionneau>
but I don't care that much
<whitequark>
since the battery is 2.2Ah at avg 3.7V... it dumped 24kJ in the course of four minutes
<whitequark>
which makes me wonder how the fuck it survived at all
<whitequark>
that's... 100W?! no, I must have made some error
<whitequark>
I suppose the capacity would be lower at higher current
<whitequark>
ok, 1.9Ah, but that doesn't change it much
<whitequark>
it cannot possibly dissipate 100W or even 50
<kyak>
DocScrutinizer05: ohh, many thanks for useful advice!]
<kyak>
i'm more or less following all of them "naturally", except for "never less than 50%"
<whitequark>
my laptop has the option of not charging the battery over 80%
<whitequark>
my usage is kind of the worst case for it, to be honest. I tend to completely discharge it at least once a day
<ysionneau>
so when people say "to save battery life time, always discharge 100% before recharging" it is bullshit?
<whitequark>
bad habits, etc
<whitequark>
ysionneau: this is true for NiCd and NiMH
<whitequark>
complete bullshit for LiIon
<ysionneau>
oh, ok
<whitequark>
re bad habits: so I suppose this is a really good battery+controller, as they survived this long
<ysionneau>
17:52 < DocScrutinizer05> best advice: never discharge batt to lower than 50% < with nowdays smartphones this is very difficult
<ysionneau>
at the end of the day you have usually < 50%
<whitequark>
pffft, just make it automatically turn off when it reaches 50%
<kyak>
whitequark: btw, my laptop battery is at 91% of its capacity after two years of "optimal" usage
<whitequark>
it's not like you do anything except playing candy crush on it anyway
<ysionneau>
my office lenovo laptop is always plugged in its dockstation and therefore plugged to AC supply, but I guess there is a controller which helps here
<kyak>
"Check every 3 months and recharge when due, cells will self-discharge over time and once they reach 0% level they are dead within weeks! "
<kyak>
damn, my stock of nokia batteries must be dead now
<kyak>
but i'm too lazy to check them even once in three months
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems once a year usually suffices
<kyak>
i also usually keep batteries inside old phones
<DocScrutinizer05>
self discharge shouldn't be that high usually. But that depends on battery quality. Mucj dirt and dust in manufacturing results in micro-perforations in separator which cause increased self discharge and worst case make batteries explode
<DocScrutinizer05>
keeping in device is a *very* poor idea
<DocScrutinizer05>
no device has a decent off state, so they discharge batteries during months in off state
<kyak>
yeah, so i'll put it out
<kyak>
how do you know when to throw a battery away?
<kyak>
even the swolen one can turn out to be useful some day :)
<whitequark>
pffff, with the current prices on batteries, nope
<whitequark>
they're dirt cheap because of chinese dumping them in huge quantities
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, the swollen one can be mad useful... as lighter ;-P
<kyak>
ok, ok, i'm throwing it away :)
dandon has quit [Quit: .]
pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<whitequark>
lighter? more like landmine
<whitequark>
I mean, we all know DocScrutinizer05 freely interchanges the two
<whitequark>
but maybe kyak isn't so enlightened yet
dandon has joined #qi-hardware
<kyak>
definitely not
<DocScrutinizer05>
exploding LiIon cells not only may start fires, they also vent tasty stuff like HF acid
<DocScrutinizer05>
(this is an unconfirmed rumor I spread here)
<whitequark>
HF?
<whitequark>
it doesn't contain F¯
<DocScrutinizer05>
the organic acid dielectricum and the separator may
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno
<whitequark>
separator is polyethylene I think?
<DocScrutinizer05>
particularly the separator might be PTFE
<whitequark>
hrm
<whitequark>
PTFE
<whitequark>
does it get hot enough for PTFE to decompose?
<DocScrutinizer05>
when the battery explodes? sure
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: oh you seem to be right
<whitequark>
energizer says lithium ion fire produces HF.
<whitequark>
yeah, plenty of safety documents mention it
<kyak>
you don't need an explosion to make a fire :)
<jbenedet1o>
lots of things make less than desirable biproducts when they burn.
<whitequark>
for example, money, you can accidentally make Silicon Valley
<jbenedet1o>
lol
<jbenedet1o>
R-12 refridgerant when exposed to an open flame makes phosgene gas
<whitequark>
... or just PVC
<whitequark>
well, it wasn't phosgene maybe, I need to recheck
<jbenedet1o>
PVC?
<whitequark>
polyvinylchloride
<jbenedet1o>
hydrogen chloride is your poison your thinking of.
<jbenedet1o>
indeed
<whitequark>
right
<whitequark>
doesn't it also emit phosgene?
<jbenedet1o>
I dont recall it being one of the major hazards, at fire school the bigger concern was the hydrogen chloride.
<whitequark>
I see
<jbenedet1o>
I'm trying to think of some of the other good ones
<jbenedet1o>
some other plastics generate Hydrogen Cyanide.
<jbenedet1o>
which is a *LOVELY* friend to have in the air.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, pretty common
<DocScrutinizer05>
already known from ancient celluloid films
<jbenedet1o>
its only a few hundred ppm for the LD50 dose in air.
<DocScrutinizer05>
in old cinemas you still see the "funny" steel dors that close even the glass covered windows between projector room and visitor room
<DocScrutinizer05>
doors*
<DocScrutinizer05>
the steel cassettes where your reels sit in
<DocScrutinizer05>
film coming out between two steel rollers that are supposed to stop that perverted nitrocellulose from burning into the cassette
<jbenedet1o>
lol
<DocScrutinizer05>
and the doots at windows closing automatically when a tiny cotton thread on projector snaps open and thus a contact closes
<DocScrutinizer05>
the projector man was the doomed one ;-P
<jbenedet1o>
apparently
<jbenedet1o>
however as far as the big killer, trusty ol' carbon monoxide does the job nearly every time.
<DocScrutinizer05>
it was even forbidden to transport the film reels in tram
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think CO was the other major product of celluloid burning
<DocScrutinizer05>
causing the really nasty secondary explosion when it ignites
<jbenedet1o>
CO is pretty much the result of buring everything, and the #1 killer in fires
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, but in celluloid fires it's created in such a volume it starts to create explosive concentrations. which tells some tale about the chances of the projector dude
<jbenedet1o>
hahah
<jbenedet1o>
yeah most people forget it burns.
<jbenedet1o>
Steel mills and the like generally reuse it in such fashion
<DocScrutinizer05>
http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC2Q2NM_park-kino?guid=e07d6437-49b7-4bba-ada4-2fc2af747925 >> Am 15.6.1940 brach während der Vorstellung von "Feuerteufel" (sic!) im Operateurraum des Park - Kinos ein Brand aus. Im Nu standen 2800 Meter Film in Flammen (damals waren die Filme aus Celluloid, ein hochbrennbares Material). Die eiserne Brandschutz - Klappen vor den Projektionslöchern zum Zuschauerraum schlossen sich allerdings
<DocScrutinizer05>
sofort, sodass mit Ausnahme des Aufleuchtens einer Stichflamme vom Publikum kaum etwas bemerkt wurde. Die Kinobesucher konnten sich in aller Ruhe entfernen. Der Kinooperateur musste sich allerdings mit einem Sprung vom Balkon in den Garten retten.<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
5 persons during King Kong premiere, 4 projector operators who must not leave their projector, and one winding-guy. 1 set of reels active, and 2 on reserve
<whitequark>
yay digital
wej has joined #qi-hardware
<DocScrutinizer05>
I now learned that celluloid films now are outlawed as explosives
<DocScrutinizer05>
may even self-ignite in locker
<whitequark>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm quite happy that I operated the machines but never with celluloid
<whitequark>
I am amazed as to who looked at nitrocellulose and thought "right! should use this for data storage"
<DocScrutinizer05>
the term "data" wasn't known when they came up with that idea ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
if you really wanna know, I can dig it up for you
<DocScrutinizer05>
was in the late 1800s
<whitequark>
dig what up?
<DocScrutinizer05>
first dramatic incident World Expo Paris 1897: 140 dead
<DocScrutinizer05>
who invented nitrocellulose movie film
<whitequark>
I can open wikipedia :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, I can't find "official" sources for the 140 fatalities and tghe whole celluloid 'criticality' accident
wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving]
<rozzin>
Ping-pong balls are still made out of nitrocellulose, I think.
<rozzin>
Nothing else *quite* bounces the same.
<rozzin>
But not beer-pong balls, apparently.
<rozzin>
I lit one of those on fire recentl; it did not burn well.
<rozzin>
It was almost flame-retardant.
tumdedum has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
tumdedum has joined #qi-hardware
<astr>
DocScrutinizer05, hi'a hows op:neo900 doing? excited as ever! :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 --
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
arhuaco has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<whitequark>
whoa
<astr>
?
<DocScrutinizer05>
that however is BS, since:
<DocScrutinizer05>
0b10000 USB UART3 MMC1 OneNAND; for SYS_BOOT5=1 aka peripheral boot
<DocScrutinizer05>
astr: I'm checking boot details of N900
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: not Neo900 yet ;-)
<astr>
oh, I wonder what your doing that for...
<DocScrutinizer05>
to understand how N900 boots, so we can stay maximum compatible. and maybe get it right same time :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
the question came up 2 days ago when I discussed battery management&charging chip solutions for Neo900 with wpwrak
<DocScrutinizer05>
N900 feeds a charger chip signal to SYS_BOOT5
<astr>
oh
<astr>
as for me I'm leaning _how_ much easily it will be to have a neo900 then my currently diy approach. just leaned that I can't upgrade Debian stable to testing with out a new kernel cus udev needs it. :/
<DocScrutinizer05>
but I just found out that it doesn't use that ball as SYS_BOOT5 when charger chip signal got connected
<larsc>
that took a while to track down, the system locks up if you do a read from the same periperhal from two different CPUs at almost the same time
<DocScrutinizer05>
surprise?
<larsc>
it means my code is not broken, which of course is not a surprise ;)
arhuaco has joined #qi-hardware
astr has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
astr has joined #qi-hardware
<DocScrutinizer05>
(SYs_BOOT5) turns out it's a hw-level backdoor if ever the bootloader would get locked down
<DocScrutinizer05>
EE department made sure sw department won't lock down / tivoize that lovely piece of hw ;-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
and that's what I call a real hack