<DocScrutinizer05>
duh! 19 "free" modules available still (1$ + facebook-like)
<DocScrutinizer05>
too bad, I got no facebook account ;-P
<whitequark>
I don't get one thing though, is
<whitequark>
er
<whitequark>
it doesn't seem to have any kind of security measures
<whitequark>
so anyone on your network could do whatever they want
<whitequark>
asked them
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think you need to set the password via USB or whatever?
<DocScrutinizer05>
or it has hardcoded password ;-P
<whitequark>
if it's just password, then it's shit
<whitequark>
anyone with a sniffer on the same network figures it out in a minute
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, I mean that WPA thing
<whitequark>
no difference if WPA or dedicated password
<whitequark>
suppose you want to control it remotely -- you're screwed
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, you lost me
<whitequark>
well
<whitequark>
if the protocol itself doesn't have any kind of request signing and/or encryption, you can't just port forward it and control it remotely
<whitequark>
exposing it to the internet
<whitequark>
if the protocol does and the firmware is not written by morons (it probably is, but another story), you can
<DocScrutinizer05>
err, I don't think this is a regular WiFi adapter
<whitequark>
what do you mean?
<DocScrutinizer05>
InternetOfThings, it's meant for remote control, not general purpose internet data transfer
<whitequark>
sure. so?
<DocScrutinizer05>
So I guess it has a way to set WPA-passphrase and that's it
<whitequark>
well, and that's dumb.
<DocScrutinizer05>
WPA2 maybe even
<DocScrutinizer05>
?
<whitequark>
adding request signing with sha256 is like an hour of work and it already makes requests unforgeable
<whitequark>
encrypting them is a bit harder, but still can be done
<DocScrutinizer05>
WPA *is* encryption, no?
<whitequark>
WPA only matters locally
<whitequark>
and also
<whitequark>
if the adversary is in your network, you're screwed
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, I don't get it
<whitequark>
if you forward the traffic to this WiFi thing, you're screwed too
<whitequark>
the only case where you're protected by WPA is: 1) the device only EVER communicates inside the network and there is no way to address it from outside 2) ALL of the hosts on the network are trusted
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, you want it to have encryption on higher level, not on-the-air
<whitequark>
yes.
<DocScrutinizer05>
so you could hook up the thing to arbitrary public hotspots
<whitequark>
not necessarily
<whitequark>
so I could just say to my home router "expose this IP:port to web"
<whitequark>
and still be safe
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm
<whitequark>
this will be a very common use case
<nicksydney>
i think probably in terms of security it's not that strong
<whitequark>
nicksydney: my point is that adding request signing is *trivial*
<whitequark>
adding encryption is less trivial because you need to use a proper mode
<whitequark>
i.e. authenticated encryption
<whitequark>
AES-GCM, or xsalsa20+poly1305
<DocScrutinizer05>
you probbaly should implement such stuff on your firewall/router, or on a proxy resp concentrator in your network
<whitequark>
1) that's too much to ask of most users of the device
<whitequark>
2) if your network is insecure, and it is, it doesn't help
<DocScrutinizer05>
most users don't want to control the thing from remote via public internet
<whitequark>
of course they do
<whitequark>
this is what already happens
<whitequark>
source: several full internet scans, published recently
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, silly
<whitequark>
see point 2 anyway
<whitequark>
if your passphrase is "iloveyou" (it is), WPA2 is as good as open
<DocScrutinizer05>
my home automation works different: I have a CCU-1 embedded linux device that has a web frontend on intra(inter)net
<DocScrutinizer05>
this CCU-1 controls all the gadgets
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, for me it's simple since the gadgets all are 866MHz, not any WiFi and no TCP-IP either
<whitequark>
sure, I'm just saying that if you have real-world people who are not huge nerds and just want their problem solved
<whitequark>
this is how the device should work.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can see how users buy such WiFi home automation gadgets since they want to communicate to them directly with their iPhone
<DocScrutinizer05>
then exposing them to the public net is a logical next step, though pretty silly
<whitequark>
yes yes
<whitequark>
exactly what I mean
<whitequark>
it may be silly, but you can at least make it possible to have it secure
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<whitequark>
(still have to not set the password to 123456! but oh well)
<DocScrutinizer05>
but probably those users don't even care ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
"duh! why should I worry when some idiot thinks it's funny to switch my living room light on and off?"
<DocScrutinizer05>
"such idiot cannot exist"
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<whitequark>
you should have seen the recent VNC scan of entire web
<DocScrutinizer05>
I seen it
<whitequark>
oh, yeah, it's amusing
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, maybe not the most recent
<whitequark>
a lot of german municipal systems exposed
<whitequark>
sewer control, power stations, etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, THAT is stupid
<whitequark>
the things I seen there are unbelievable
<DocScrutinizer05>
*nod*
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe I should scan my town's "IP-range" to find a few funny opportunities to save some money or do entertaining stuff ;-)
<mth>
I guy I knew in school thought it was funny to cycle through the neighbourhood, pointing a TV remote at random living rooms and see if their TV responded
<mth>
since a lot of them used RC5, it worked pretty well
<whitequark>
hehehe
<mth>
so there is always someone who will prank you like that
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, we already improved that prank by using a 15W IR flood light
<mth>
even more over the internet, where the chance of getting caught is a lot smaller
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: HAHAHA
<whitequark>
that's great
<DocScrutinizer05>
IR laser is also useful, for a slightly different "attack scheme"
<whitequark>
you're evil
<whitequark>
:]
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know ;-)
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<ray__>
hi there can i use librewrt with tp-mr3420? wouter [20:10] <ray__> want sure new to this
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: any chance you know a good guide for building class E amplifiers?
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<whitequark>
a book maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
class E?
<whitequark>
class E.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I admit I don't even know class E
<whitequark>
keyed amplifier with LC matching network
<ray__>
there can i use librewrt with tp-mr3420? wouter [20:10] <ray__> want sure new to this
<DocScrutinizer05>
o.O
<whitequark>
I've been told it's a good idea to use a class E one for my PSU
<ray__>
whats oo
<whitequark>
less power dissipation, simpler
<ray__>
white did you see my q
<DocScrutinizer05>
we see your q, we don't know an answer when we don't answer
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: that sounds like class-D to me
<ray__>
k
<whitequark>
class-D is PWM, class-E is halfsine though
<whitequark>
and I think there are other differences
<whitequark>
The class-E/F amplifier is a highly efficient switching power amplifier, typically used at such high frequencies that the switching time becomes comparable to the duty time. As said in the class-D amplifier, the transistor is connected via a serial LC circuit to the load, and connected via a large L (inductor) to the supply voltage.
<whitequark>
indeed, this is exactly my case
<ray__>
what happens if change subnet?
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: yepo, I see
<ray__>
from the default
<whitequark>
hm, maybe my Horowitz and Hill has it
<ray__>
what happens when i change default subnetmas?
<whitequark>
no, doesn't cover PAs at all
<ray__>
white did you see my q about subnetmas
<ray__>
?
<whitequark>
ray__: I have no idea what are you asking at all
<ray__>
white what happnes if change the default subnet mask?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ray__: what's your topic?
<ray__>
want to knwo what dose changeing the default subnet mask dose?
<DocScrutinizer05>
nothing good
<ray__>
im just woundering
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to change it
<ray__>
mine tell me i can DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe! >>the proof of the pudding is in the eating<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: no wonder I never heard of 2class E amp" before. In my book this classifies more for a TX oscillator than what I understand is an amplifier
<whitequark>
yeah
<whitequark>
I was surprised too
<DocScrutinizer05>
would be pretty hard to make a audio amp out of this ;-)
<whitequark>
pfff, who needs audio
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I wondered how the heck they would modulate that thing
<whitequark>
AM
<DocScrutinizer05>
100% preferably
<whitequark>
you just change the supply voltage of the amplifier
<DocScrutinizer05>
which is what they did, on a morse rate of 0.1 char/minute
<whitequark>
like, use a controlled boost converter for that
<whitequark>
at least that is what I will do
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
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<ray__>
any one want some green apple cookie?
<DocScrutinizer05>
bot?
<ray__>
nope
<ray__>
trying to be nice 2
<ray__>
2+2= 4
<DocScrutinizer05>
when that's a turing test then you didn't pass it yet ;-)
<ray__>
i know marry popion movie
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
alas I don't
<ray__>
DocScrutinizer05: you a bot?
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe ;-)
<ray__>
DocScrutinizer05: so you are?
<DocScrutinizer05>
some think I am, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<ray__>
DocScrutinizer05: im for real
<ray__>
DocScrutinizer05: school starts soon
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll proceed to the shower and see if any shorts are caused ;-)
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* DocScrutinizer05
waves
<DocScrutinizer05>
austic?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm
<DocScrutinizer05>
we shouldn't be hostile to him, eh?
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: btw, a less braindead version of that poettering thing
<whitequark>
wpwrak: remind me, which is the good rigol today?
<whitequark>
1102E?
<whitequark>
1074Z?
<whitequark>
the *B series I can find here is either sold out or has very little RAM
<whitequark>
1074Z seems nicest so far. lot of RAM, big screen, four channels
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<eintopf>
hi
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<wpwrak>
whitequark: 1000Z is nice. 4 chan, low cost, hackable (if you think of buying all the options individually, then you'd be better off with directly buying a higher-end scope),
<wpwrak>
whitequark: drawbacks: 1) sample rate gets mercilessly divided down to 250 MSa/s. 2) intensity grading not as nice as in the better rigols.
<wpwrak>
but if you can live with these limitations, then it's a good choice. if you want fancier, you could get a 2000. but they come only with 2 channels and hacking them is much harder.
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<wpwrak>
3rd option is siglent. new kid on the block in that range. their sds2000 looks quite promising but still had a number of ugly quirks in the firmware (plus a stupidly placed knob). a bit cheaper than the rigol 2000, less unbundling, and goes up to 4 analog channels.
<eintopf>
wpwrak: when I have money, I will ask you about an oscilloscope and then I will buy it. I am 100% sure you are the expert about low cost oscilloscopes in home environment.
<eintopf>
wpwrak: do you think I can build an own oscilloscope with an high ADC sampler and some serial wire connection to pc. PC runs an application which plot data from serial.
<eintopf>
this will be slow, but it's a possible solution to build one?
<wpwrak>
serial = usb, yes :)
<wpwrak>
ah, build a complete device
<eintopf>
ftdi chip
<wpwrak>
well yes, but it'll be a toy, not really useful
<eintopf>
wpwrak: this would be a post on hackaday!
<wpwrak>
naw, there's already a ton of "arduinoscopes" and such junk
<eintopf>
grml :(, somebody stole my idea. I doesn't know this.
<eintopf>
and arduinologicanalyzers, too?
<wpwrak>
i'm sure there are some as well
<wpwrak>
i built one with the ben :) actually somewhat useful - does a few dozen MHz
<eintopf>
another idea was to buy some arm with fpga and built an open usb debugger with that.
<eintopf>
but I can't programm a fpga. The usb debugger should work with usbmon.
<eintopf>
and many companies are angry to me, who sells some kind of this hardware for 2000 eu
<eintopf>
eur*
<wpwrak>
you could consider it a learning opportunity :)
<wpwrak>
and no, you won't be able to sell something like this at such a high price :)
<wpwrak>
fpga-based LAs do of course exist, too. and they're relatively inexpensive.
<eintopf>
so all my ideas are already developed
<eintopf>
okay, an android app/iphone app with gpg encryption to load something in the cloud
<eintopf>
in connection with an anelok
<eintopf>
so we have already some popular members like rihanna
<eintopf>
:P
<eintopf>
but then you need to put some swarozky stones on the anelok!
<eintopf>
wpwrak: (selling) it was not my goal to selling such device. Goal is too have a open source community driven stable device for something like that. ;)
<eintopf>
sniffing usb devices
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<eintopf>
s/swarozky/swarovski
<wpwrak>
(glass) i'm sure she can afford real diamonds ;)
<wpwrak>
(open) there's also an open critter of that kind. also, there's bitscope
<wpwrak>
what they all have in common: they're not very good. e.g., the fpga-based LAs often just use the fpga memory. so they can't store long sequences.
<eintopf>
a doctorand of my university works with hash algorithmn (tested SHA-3 candidates) he use xillinx fpga's
<eintopf>
and the linux IDE
<eintopf>
he always are very angry about the IDE
<eintopf>
always broken
<eintopf>
error messages like windows
<eintopf>
s/are/is/
<eintopf>
wpwrak: (low memory) but when you have a high bus, like PCI-E and connected FPGA, you can use the memory from arm processor or something else
<eintopf>
and I mean dma activated etc... you can already buy some solutions like this
<wpwrak>
kyak: the apps extension ? no. but it's a logical piece. mooltipass ? sure. has a bit different goals than anelok, though. last time i checked, it was designed around a smart card.
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* DocScrutinizer05
is undecided if likes "moolti"
<DocScrutinizer05>
sounds like Jovovich in "the 5th element"