Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
Jurting has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
guanucoluis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye]
guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware
guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
danlench1 has joined #qi-hardware
<danlench1> hi all, i need to talk to someone about hardware development for an FOSS project
<danlench1> we will be launching a kickstarter project soon. the software is ready but i would like to offer a hardware solution as well
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
<danlench1> i need 1 or 2 SATA, 4 or 5 ethernet, 2 usb, and a way to provide 802.11* that can be upgraded
<danlench1> per unit cost on 1k 5k 10k 50k intervals
<danlench1> my emain is daniel@nofolder.com
<danlench1> ^email
<wpwrak> hmm, i don't think anyone here is ready to do such things
<wpwrak> (here) on this channel
<danlench1> wpwrak: any suggestions
<danlench1> are you involved with qi
danlench has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak> the hardware requirements are a bit tricky. maybe there's something out there that already exists. else, you'd need a custom design. or try to adjust the specs.
<wpwrak> well yes, i'm involved with qi-hw. but i'm not sure what you think that means :)
<danlench1> well i am looking for purpose built board
<danlench1> well, i'm involved with alot of things as well ;)
<danlench1> i'm preparing a kickstarter project
<danlench1> think open source cross platform time capsule like device with dropbox like capabilities
<danlench1> the software is done, i would like to provide a hardware option
<danlench1> so i'm looking for manufacturers
<wpwrak> maybe post to the qi-hw list. while i haven't seen any discussion about people actually picking up manufacturing tasks (except sharism and tuxbrain, but tuxbrain is dead and sharism doesn't do much anymore), there may be lurkers
<danlench1> ok i will
<danlench1> would you know who does the pcb for qi?
<danlench1> well pcb + components
<danlench1> thats what i'm really hunting for
<wpwrak> you mean the pcb fab ? or the smt fab ?
dandon has quit [Quit: .]
<wpwrak> in the milkymist project, i think pcbs were made and smt'ed in taiwan
<wpwrak> i think sharism sourced the components directly and then brought them to the smt fab
<danlench1> right, probably, but who
<danlench1> i mean i could do the smt in my garage if i had enough ovens
<wpwrak> wolfspraul would know
<danlench1> lol
<wpwrak> good luck with the yield :)
<danlench1> right!! late nights
<wpwrak> and i think anything > 100 units would get extremely boring
<danlench1> no, i need to price 10k at least
<wpwrak> you're in the US ?
<danlench1> all thoes pick and place makerbots
<danlench1> yeah
<danlench1> u
<wpwrak> you may also want to try to get domestic quotes for a first estimate
<wpwrak> at least for the pcb, that's easy
<danlench1> it's on the list ;)
<danlench1> i appreciate your time, i would love to throw this to an open source hw org
<wpwrak> then you can check your components on digi-key, subtract 10% for volume and maybe 10-20% for asia and you'd have a rough idea
<danlench1> yep, the case is the other thing ;)
<wpwrak> unfortunately, in the qi-hw universe we're not quite set up for contract manufacturing. at least not anymore. would have been a possibility maybe a year ago or two.
<wpwrak> ah yes, cases are fun :)
<danlench1> ugg
<danlench1> i didnt have a developer then :/
<wpwrak> milkymist had a fairly nice solution. all 2D cuts
<danlench1> right, KISS
<wpwrak> (solution) for its case
<wpwrak> aye :)
<danlench1> wolfspraul: do you by anychance know who does the pcb and smt for qi? i'm looing for a manurfacturer for my project and would love a reccomendation
<danlench1> hows that
danlench1 has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware]
danlench1 has joined #qi-hardware
<wolfspraul> thanks for asking but you don't want to hear my recommendation
<wolfspraul> :-)
<danlench1> lol, at least i put my work machine on the line first
<danlench1> uh oh
<danlench1> ok, maybe a warning then. i'm ok with that also ;)
<wpwrak> sounds as if you need a hw designer, too
<danlench1> i have a few on the list but always appreciate another
<danlench1> arm or atom, needs to run minimal fedora or centos
dandon has joined #qi-hardware
<danlench1> these will all be for the home or "small" users
<danlench1> the enterprise can use their own HW
<danlench1> still free of charge
<wpwrak> in your place, i'd first try to find a board/device that already does more or less what you need. it's a lot easier to source an existing device than making a new one.
<danlench1> the mobile clients will be $5 to fund development
<danlench1> well...
<wpwrak> the large number of ethers combined with SATA could be a problem. does this thing really have to be a router/switch ?
<danlench1> where is that link...
<danlench1> the router/switch integration will simplify the dropbox like capabilities
<danlench1> for the home user
DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services]
DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware
<danlench1> the d200 s basically a heavy duty prototype
<wpwrak> that box doesn't look so bad
<danlench1> released in 2009 for around 700us
<wpwrak> may even have room for your SATA disks
<danlench1> i hve a few now from amazon at 150us
<danlench1> no one at asus has ever heard of it
<wpwrak> ;-)
<danlench1> 10 techs later and none of them
<danlench1> a quiet failure
<danlench1> but what a cool idea
<wpwrak> people who were working on that in 2009 probably have retired long since :)
<wpwrak> it seems a bit bulky
<danlench1> integrated UPS also, its a lipo battery similar to a laptops
<danlench1> about 4in wide 12 tall
<wpwrak> i'm beginning to see where the price comes from :)
<danlench1> dvdrw, 2 3.5hdd, 2 fans, touchscreen all that other stuff
<wpwrak> batteries aren't such a good idea. they die within a few years. and then people will come to you asking for new ones.
<danlench1> its tow boards with a pcb bridging them
<wpwrak> urgh
<danlench1> its a beotch to get apart also ;)
<danlench1> yeah, its too much
<wpwrak> good old crowbar not working ? :)
<danlench1> but good for dev,
<danlench1> so any HW man suggestions?
<danlench1> :D
<wpwrak> btw, if you have two ether ports, you could already integrate it into an existing home network without using extra ports
<wpwrak> and two ether + SATA may be findable
<danlench1> yes, it is
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: we still haven't heard your comment ;-)
<wolfspraul> which you can imagine, it's easy: don't do hardware
<wolfspraul> work for a manufacturer for a while if you really want to
<wolfspraul> from what you write, there's just too much missing/imagined
<wolfspraul> of course that is the very kind of feedback the successful guys blissfully ignore, but that power is entirely up to you
<wolfspraul> I am still saying: save yourself and the world that bucket of wasted energy :-)
<danlench1> there is a jetway board that is looking promising
<wpwrak> that;s just the ether
pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye]
<wpwrak> ah, and that would be a 2x ether solution
<wpwrak> and with plenty of SATA interfaces
<danlench1> its too much
<danlench1> wolfspraul: i appreciate your words
<wpwrak> and i concur with wolfgang: since you're aiming for a relatively high-performance design, which also has a fair number of peripherals, you're likely to face a very long and costly development process
<wpwrak> so a much better approach would be to find something you can just OEM
<danlench1> well i plan to run the kickstarter in 2 projects, one for the software only one for hardware only
<danlench1> oem would be great
<danlench1> been looking for a month
<danlench1> new stuff every day
<danlench1> time for me to retire for the nite
<wpwrak> maybe have some vacations in taipei and shanghai (or shenzen ?), and visit the local markets :)
<danlench1> thanks so much for your input
<wpwrak> np. good luck !
<danlench1> :D
<danlench1> i'll be back ;)
danlench1 has quit [Quit: danlench1]
<wpwrak> sigh. why doesn't just once someone pop up who wants to make hardware who a) already has the bag of money necessary and b) wants to make, say, a new nanonote ? it would be such a pleasure to help with such a thing ...
emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving]
rz2k has quit []
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
dandon has quit [Quit: .]
rz2k has joined #qi-hardware
Jay7 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Jay7 has joined #qi-hardware
rz2k has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rz2k has joined #qi-hardware
<whitequark> wpwrak: I wonder, how much money would be required for a new NN?
<whitequark> lower bound :D
<whitequark> the upper one is obviously +∞
jluis has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
liuqi has joined #qi-hardware
liuqi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
liuqi has joined #qi-hardware
liuqi has quit [Quit: leaving]
liuqi has joined #qi-hardware
urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware
wej has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak> whitequark: hmm, production-ready design in the order of 100-150 kUSD
<wpwrak> perhaps more 150 than 100, considering that the case may be a bit of work
<whitequark> hm
<whitequark> where did you get the money for first Ben, then?
<wpwrak> as far as i know, that came from wolfgang's savings
<wpwrak> also, the first ben wasn't an original design. it was licensed from a company that sold it as a dictionary
<whitequark> I see
dandon has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
valhalla has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wej has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
megha has joined #qi-hardware
rz2k has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
lekernel has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye]
Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware
kristianpaul has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
Hoolxi has quit [Quit: Leaving]
dlan^ has joined #qi-hardware
kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware
paul_boddie has joined #qi-hardware
<paul_boddie> Having read the logs, I wonder if danlench1 should be talking to the arm-netbook people. Although I'm not sure whether 4 or 5 Ethernet ports is on their roadmap.
<paul_boddie> Maybe a router/switch manufacturer, then.
<whitequark> I'm fairly sure that a dumb switch chip is trivial to obtain
<whitequark> and is not very demanding
<wpwrak> not sure if many of them are interested in making custom designs
<paul_boddie> It sounds like a super-sized FreedomBox. :-)
<wpwrak> the problem is that the whole system is fairly high-end. you need a very well-equipped shop to make such a thing work.
<paul_boddie> By the way, wpwrak, looking at the documentation for the Arduino shield I was talking about, it appears that feeding 5V to the shield's VIN pin is necessary. The circuit then ensures that the controller gets 3.3V. And there was I thinking I could skip over those pages in the datasheet. :-)
<wpwrak> there's your problem :)
<wpwrak> could you feed the 3.3 V directly into the 3.3 V rail, ignoring the 5 V side ?
<paul_boddie> No, that didn't seem to work.
<wpwrak> :(
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
megha is now known as baba
<paul_boddie> USB would need 5V anyway, as I understand it, so some external power source is probably required. I was using USB as that power source (through the Arduino), but that's cheating. :-)
<wpwrak> well yes, external power is always a solution ...
<wpwrak> just make sure you don't connect the ben to any 5 V net. it may resent that.
baba has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0]
<paul_boddie> Indeed.
<paul_boddie> Here, I assume that the shield's designer followed the advice on those other datasheet pages I wasn't interested in reading. ;-)
<wpwrak> heh :)
<wpwrak> isn't arduino switching to 3.3 V, too, for their next generation ? i thought i read something like that. or was that some arduino-like board ?
<wpwrak> 5 V is so 1980es ...
<C-Keen> there are several 3.3V variants
<C-Keen> arduino pro or something for example
dlan^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<wpwrak> ah yes. has a 3 V and a 5 V variant.
<paul_boddie> Arduino Due is 3.3V (see the warning on http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDue), as are some of the older models.
<wpwrak> aah, DUE is that next generation thing i meant ! yes, even has a decent core
<C-Keen> is the DUE the one with the arm core?
<wpwrak> yeah, AT91SAM3X8E
<wpwrak> (Cortex-M3)
<C-Keen> nice
<paul_boddie> Competition is getting pretty stiff in the low-end ARM space, though: http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp (for example)
<wpwrak> it's not exactly hard anymore to make a little ARM board :) i guess the brand name may help arduino, though
<C-Keen> plus their grown ready to use sensor gadgets
guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<danlench> paul_boddie: i am on the arm-network channel as well
<danlench> wpwrak: i'm impressed with the nanonote for sure, just my phone and laptop and tablet and...
<danlench> i appreciate everyones comments totally
emeb has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak> danlench: you have a nanonote ?
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
<danlench> no i do not, but i may after our conversations ;)
<wpwrak> whee ! :)
<danlench> where is the order form
<danlench> or do you want to sell me yours
<wpwrak> for the US, right from the source should be best: https://sharism.cc/
<wpwrak> naw, i keep mine :)
<danlench> but if its autographed...
<paul_boddie> I got mine from Pulster but that's because it was in the EU and thus less complicated.
<wpwrak> that would be a large detour ;-)
<danlench> does it have wifi
<wpwrak> (autographing)
<wpwrak> nope, no wireless. there's a IEEE 802.15.4 module you can get separately, though.
<paul_boddie> No, there are various strategies for using WiFi with it, but it isn't built in.
<danlench> i have a meeting in 30 min that i have to prepare for, i'll be back ;)
<wpwrak> and yes, there's also a hard to find uSD wifi module. not sure if there are any other portable wifi solutions for the ben.
<paul_boddie> By the way, wpwrak, on that microSD Sniffer product page there was someone wanting to use that board to break out to a normal SD card socket which they then intended to use with an Eye-Fi card.
<wpwrak> hmm, at some point those appendages will become a mechanical problem ...
pcercuei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jluis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
<paul_boddie> I'm not advocating EyeFi usage - I'm not sure how easy it is to make it a general WiFi solution or that it costs much less than that Spectec card once you add on the price of all the bits needed to connect it - but I wonder whether anyone looked into using one as a quick hack before now.
paul_boddie has left #qi-hardware ["Kopete 0.11.3 : http://kopete.kde.org"]
<whitequark> there isn't even a linux driver for eyefi
<lekernel> wolfspraul, you may find this interesting: http://www.altera.com/literature/wp/wp-01139-timing-model.pdf
jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye]
jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware
urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
sivoais has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
sivoais has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
sivoais has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
sivoais has quit [Quit: leaving]
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
Jay7 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
woakas has joined #qi-hardware
crunch has joined #qi-hardware
<crunch> hey
guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
crunch has quit []
guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware
<kristianpaul> hi
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Jay7 has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
lekernel has joined #qi-hardware
woakas has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8]