Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<LunaVorax>
Hello everyone!
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<ezdagor>
Ok. Got the new OpenWRT image on the Nanonote. I noticed that the KS7010 driver is included in the Kernel. I see that the iw tools are installed, but I have no ways of using dhclient (or any other dh program) installed. So, How I do connect to a network using the KS7010 card?
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<whitequark>
does "ip link" show any wireless cards?
<wolfspraul>
good morning everybody
<wolfspraul>
coffee first :-)
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: wpwrak : let's take the pcb-diy thread here? feels a little off-topic in #milkymist
<wolfspraul>
first I am wondering about (my) goals in this
<wolfspraul>
definitely not to kill some time and "do something myself"
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<wolfspraul>
I think my main goals are very fast turnaround (is 4 hours a realistic goal?), and low capital needed (let's say < 1000 USD)
<wolfspraul>
now for the first board, maybe an atben clone? or should it be more ambitious and try something new right away?
<wolfspraul>
I see lots of holes in the atben pcb - are those all vias?
<DocScrutinizer>
quite probably
<DocScrutinizer>
what else could they be?
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
sure
<DocScrutinizer>
I don't exactly understand what you're planning to do
<DocScrutinizer>
build a doublesided PCB with vias in <4h, with <1000 USD?
<wolfspraul>
no no
<wolfspraul>
one by one
<wolfspraul>
Werner has a nice pcb-making process that I'd like to learn as well and document
<wolfspraul>
I think it can come in handy in a variety of situations, especially because of the ability to do quick turnarounds
<DocScrutinizer>
the nicest PCB making process I know is "order it at a professional PCB maker"
<wolfspraul>
I just wanted to define the eventual goals, see what timeline and capital expenses werner thinks are realistic
<wolfspraul>
order from pcb make is slow and expensive for quick prototypes or experiments
<wolfspraul>
pcb maker
<DocScrutinizer>
sounds to me like "building your own primary cells"
<wolfspraul>
I'm not trying to convince you
<wolfspraul>
when did you last had one made at a pcb maker/
<wolfspraul>
?
<DocScrutinizer>
err, 7 years ago?
<wolfspraul>
alright :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
like 50EUR for a eurocard
<whitequark>
I second everything DocScrutinizer says
<whitequark>
I tried to make PCBs for ~half a year, intermittenly
<whitequark>
best I could do is some 1-side PCBs with abysmal resolution and a lot of failures
<whitequark>
it's not a 4-hour cheap and stable process
<whitequark>
iteadstudio makes 2- and 4-layer pcbs, they're pretty cheap and fast
<wolfspraul>
even same day probably if I had to
<wolfspraul>
but anyway we are missing the point. I didn't want to start a coolest nerd of the month who can do the hardest things at home competition or trashtalk.
<DocScrutinizer>
I think we had 5 of those on that eurocard formfactor, and fab cut it up for us, after production
<DocScrutinizer>
so basically 10EUR / PCB
<whitequark>
wolfspraul: if you just need the work to be done, send it to a fab
<whitequark>
you won't do better
<wolfspraul>
I'm going to document and try out werner's process, because I think it can come in very handy. I have enough experience with making pcbs to know that it's valuable :-)
<wolfspraul>
of course that is not the point
<whitequark>
what is?
<wolfspraul>
fast turnaround, for easy tweaking and customization
<DocScrutinizer>
dang, it's been 11 years ago
<whitequark>
well, I'm pretty sure that you'll fiddle with it for some months, waste a lot of time and eventually decide it's just easier to send to a fab
<whitequark>
your choice :)
<wolfspraul>
so much positive thinking here :-)
<whitequark>
it's messy, slow, hard and stinky process requiring a lot of skill and not scaling at all
<DocScrutinizer>
just pure pragmatism
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer: btw, did you buy these modules?
<DocScrutinizer>
not yet
<whitequark>
I'm curious what you'll do with them
<DocScrutinizer>
I bought a lenovo T500 today
<ezdagor>
Yep. Shows that "eth0" is a wireless card.
<whitequark>
oh, t500 is somewhat ancient, isn't it?
<whitequark>
I, personally, like how my samsung rc530 compiles kernel in 1.5 minutes. helps when you tweak something in "Kernel hacking" and the buildsystem suddenly decides it needs to rebuild EVERYTHING.
<whitequark>
or with building android
<DocScrutinizer>
and en passant managed to help maemo-community-ssu on a path that's manageable for the future, regarding repositories, packaging etc
<whitequark>
hmm?
<DocScrutinizer>
on every huge community foss project, you get those bleeding edge fanboys. You can't stop them from pushing shite like systemd into your project, just for the leetness, but you can give them a playground / sandbox where they won't kill your entire project with their leet new stuff
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<ezdagor>
/bin/sh: iw: not found
<DocScrutinizer>
we built this sandbox today
<DocScrutinizer>
resp we disgned it
<DocScrutinizer>
designed*
<whitequark>
oh, I see that maemo uses upstart too
<whitequark>
I like it more and back when I maintained my own embedded distro, it was used as initd
<DocScrutinizer>
yup, though this was an example straight from SHR ;-P
<whitequark>
yeah, I share your opinion on systemd
<DocScrutinizer>
on maemo it's about worlclock, camera, mediaplayer, and even a complete migration of kernel from ARM to THUMB
<DocScrutinizer>
right now
<whitequark>
what does systemd have to do with instruction set?
<DocScrutinizer>
we provided a playground for all this now, plus all the stuff to come
<whitequark>
I always thought it depends on your cpu code, and maybe ABI in some cases
<whitequark>
ahh
<DocScrutinizer>
systemd was an example unrelated to maemo
<DocScrutinizer>
we've seen this initV->systemd migration on SHR recently
<DocScrutinizer>
that's why I took it as an example how things can and will go awry
<whitequark>
what shr is based on? OE?
<DocScrutinizer>
yup
* whitequark
removes the bookmark
<DocScrutinizer>
the funny thing is I triggered that whole "sandbox" thing though I basically never contributed any line of code to maemo-cssu
<DocScrutinizer>
so at least there I finally reached my dream position of a mere system architect
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