<rjeffries>
tuxbrain_away they will run 1,000 all at same time. after you oredr the first 500 they'll sell the second 500 at a lower price.
<rjeffries>
you may be better off ordering the 1,000 have they quoted prices at quantity 1,000 ?
<rjeffries>
I am almost (not quite) ready to get a US quote, whuch muht be interesting. I would assume my qupute and yours should be similar price plus or minus 5 percent
<Jay7>
need keyboard manufacturer :)
<Jay7>
I definitely need hybrid of MS NEK 4000 with IBM trackpoint instead of Zoom in middle
<Jay7>
and with better mechanic.. even for $100 per unit..
<Jay7>
or may be $200 even..
<panda|x201>
xiangfu, any news about 02-14 release?
<wolfspra1l>
panda|x201: xiangfu ran into a bug with the sound module due to 2.6.32.27 kernel upgrade
<panda|x201>
wolfspra1l, ah, long time no see, wolfgang
<wolfspra1l>
really? i'm here all the time
<zrafa>
Jay7: have you gotten kernel+kexecboot(initramfs) on kernel partition in nn?
<Jay7>
zrafa: not yet, coming soon :)
<zrafa>
Jay7: what is the status?
<Jay7>
this is next item in todo list :)
<Jay7>
I should merge linux-jlime-nanonote into linux-kexecboot recipe in OE
<Jay7>
to be able to build kexecboot kernel + initramfs
<Jay7>
-> sleep
<xiangfu>
panda|x201: wolfspra1l just fixed.  needs enable some option in kernel_menuconfig
<wolfspra1l>
that one for sure has no chance for success, let's see planm now...
<wpwrak>
planm looks good ;-))))
<zrafa>
wpwrak: wolfspra1l :) .. plana would be stable I guess
<wolfspra1l>
the text is lame, but the pic pretty cool!
<wolfspra1l>
that's how the first Qi smartphone will look like
<wolfspra1l>
well those plans are fun at leat
<wolfspra1l>
least
<zrafa>
yeah
<wpwrak>
with all the unhappiness, i wonder how long until people act on it. tunesia, egypt, nokia ? :)
<steve|m>
Openmokia.. hehe
<wpwrak>
;-)))
<wpwrak>
steve|m: the domains still seem to be available (-:C
<wpwrak>
hmm, seems that i have a sourcing crisis at my hands :-( adhesive tape is running low ... let's see if i can make it through the night with what's left ...
<steve|m>
uh oh, I smell bad supply chain management.. just-in-time sourcing :P
<adamw_>
Is there anyone know where's OM wikireader's schematic?
<wpwrak>
yeah. i actually noticed something like 2-3 days ago, but keep on forgetting to buy new one
<adamw_>
or it have never been publicly at all?
<wpwrak>
adamw_: i don't remember seeing it published
<adamw_>
wpwrak, me either. I just want to know & find it.
<wpwrak>
adamw_: btw, why on earth ? can't you design something better over lunch ? :)
<kristianpaul>
dammit, i dont know what happen i just get home and my home router/swich was off... by 8 hrs.
<adamw_>
wpwrak, man! forget it.
<rejon>
hi guys
<kristianpaul>
hey rejon
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: i think you underestimate the extra value you pay for when producing things at home (as opposed to the far east) ;-)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: but i'm kinda curious where this will lead. may learn a thing or two :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak not sure why you think this UBB fab would go offshore. I expect in these small qty it will be local. However, if specs are solid and venodr quality is known to my middleman, then risk of China fab seems ok.
<rjeffries>
wha made you think it will go to China?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: no, what i mean is that you can expect the pcb fab to communicate any small problem to you. they will factor some communication overhead into their process.
<rjeffries>
ok
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: so you don't need to plan for an "open loop" process. that would be needed if you went to china (well, unless you know the place you're dealing with well and have established good communication)
<rjeffries>
the guy I plan to go through (as my interface to fab) has done multiple fabs for a good friend, those are far more complex than UBB
<rjeffries>
also we worked with him when I was at the company I worked at for 8 years. he is a known quantity amd reliable
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yeah, almost everything is more complex than UBB ;-) just be careful about the cutting of the board. that's the hairy bit.
<rjeffries>
yup that worries me. I wonder if the physical dimension spec is stated as clearly as it must be
<rjeffries>
Icertainly understand that standard v-scorinbg is a non starter
<rjeffries>
[askshimself, why the hell did I even THINK about doing this???]
<wpwrak>
you have about 100-200 um of tolerance before things get really bad. but yes, i don't see a way for v-scoring to meet this without trouble. a mill can do it, but needs some mechanical support. preferably better than the double-sided tape on FR2 i use ;-)
<wpwrak>
i think a laser cutter would be ideal. but i don't know how common they are at pcb fabs. in any case, they have *something* that can cut boards precisely. the thinness of the board should already eliminate places with medieval technology
<wpwrak>
if the pcb fab is attentive and uses a cnc mill, they should complain about the concave corners, because a mill can't make such corners :) but it can approximate them in several ways.
<wpwrak>
if they have a laser cutter with a fine enough beam, they won't care, because it'll all be within the tolerances
<wpwrak>
also, if they just do it with a reasonably fine "standard mill", it'll be alright (i use a 35 mil bit, which is sufficient. if they use something larger, then the board may need some manual trimming to lock nicely. it will insert/remove no matter how big the bit is, because there are only convex corners involved there, and you can mill those "perfectly")
<kyak>
xiangfu: hi!
<kyak>
xiangfu: i wasn't able to build pango.. so no config_full -\
<kyak>
xiangfu: however, i don't experience any sound issues though i've been using 2.6.32.27 for a while now...
<xiangfu>
kyak: the option CONFIG_I2C not enable in kernel config. by enable CONFIG_I2C, sound works fine.
<xiangfu>
I have test all the apps in gmenu2x. all works fine.
<kyak>
ok, that's great news
<tuxbrain_away>
rjeffries:(fab qty) nop, they will run a 528 run,not 1000, but on second batch a lot of initial cost will not have to be payed again so first batch is expensive than all the rest.
<kyak>
# CONFIG_I2C is not set
<kyak>
hm.. why i don't see ths issues?
<xiangfu>
kyak: the 'dmesg' not report any error?
<kyak>
i reflashed couple of days ago.. maybe it's a really new bug
<kyak>
xiangfu: i didn't have a look in dmesg.. just the sound is working
<xiangfu>
I will download and do fast test again . then send email to list.
<xiangfu>
this time is real release ;-)
<kyak>
xiangfu: ok. going to try that at home
<larsc>
kyak: when you build your sound modules did you had add openwrt packages selected?
<kyak>
will update to 512 Mb rootfs :)
<kyak>
larsc: which modules exactly?
<larsc>
well the ones used for sound
<kyak>
i'm not sure, i never thought about it. What should i look for in config?
<larsc>
If I2C was enabled during build, it is also a runtime requirement for the asoc-core.
<larsc>
If it was not it is not
<larsc>
so if you build your sound modules while the i2c modules were selected, you have to load the i2c modules before you can load the sound modules
<kyak>
well, since i don't have i2c enabled, i don't have to load it..
<kyak>
sound modules just load
<larsc>
yep
<kyak>
larsc: there was a question about using monolythic kernel on malining lists. .What do you think about it?
<xiangfu>
then why the default build about sound module have i2c enable?
<larsc>
I think we should just add the spi and i2c modules as a dependcy to sound-soc-core, that should avoid any further problems
<larsc>
kyak: when?
<kyak>
xiangfu: maybe your full build has something like i2c-tools enabled, that makes the i2c avaialble in your build environment, but then there is no i2c on target due to lack of CONFIG_I2C?
<kyak>
xiangfu: if i'm not mistaken, nielsle is the developer of NanoMap?
<wolfspraul>
kyak: yes, correct [niels]
<kyak>
i found some undocumented features in NanoMap, including this monav support.. Would be great to have it explained a little bit :)
<kyak>
if you press "L" you can add various layers.. include time and battery
<wolfspraul>
I'm a super big fan of NanoMap, but I'm not sure how much the (limited) Ben is still Niels focus. some of his latest stuff looks like he is developing on a notebook or so.
<kyak>
looks very good, but not documented
<kyak>
maybe we can poke niels sometime :)
<wolfspraul>
for me it needs an index, so I can search for street names, subway lines, etc.
<wolfspraul>
then there needs to be a way to quickly load a map of some city onto the device
<kyak>
xiangfu: good. so opkg update && opkg install package_name should work?
<xiangfu>
kyak: sure.
<xiangfu>
of cause ;-)
<kyak>
xiangfu: were there any packages that failed to build? like, php?
<kyak>
no, php is there :)
<xiangfu>
kyak: all the package in config.full_system (but w3m, plplot) are compile fine.
<xiangfu>
there are some package not compile. next time I will record them to a file.
<kyak>
i still don't understand how you managed to build pango.. might wanna have a look at logs
<xiangfu>
when run "make" without V=99. there are a list of package which not compile
<kyak>
xiangfu: oh, maybe we can copy w3m to packages once it's built :)
<kyak>
so people can install it even if it's not in rootfs
<kyak>
ah, that would require updating of Packages.gz... nevermind
<xiangfu>
yes. it needs update Package.gz.
<kyak>
actually, it would be a one step forward to "rolling releases" if we do that
<kyak>
if we always keep the packages/NanoNote/
<kyak>
Ben/latest up to date
<kyak>
then people can just update continously
<xiangfu>
yes. there are two issue for now.
<xiangfu>
1. those file that overwrite openwrt files  openwrt-xburst.git/files/etc/*
<xiangfu>
2. linux can not reflash the bootloader.
<xiangfu>
for 1). when can create a package, that include those file. then add small script file at /etc/uci-defaults for fix that.
<xiangfu>
2) I still not find a solution. don't have time to write a software ecc in linux.
<kyak>
flashing the bootloader can be done manually in a usual manner once in a while
<kyak>
as i see it, uboot and kernel are pretty stable, right?
<xiangfu>
for now it's pretty stable
<tuxbrain_away>
wpwrak: have you contact avr-dude developers to include the patch? Did you mind If I fill a ticket in his tracking system to the patch be included in main avrdude, maybe this way we can create a ipk without forking the actual avrdude
<jow_laptop>
xiangfu: you can throw w3m into bin/..../packages and run "make package/index"
<jow_laptop>
when you approach rolling releases you should be sure to flag essential packages as hold
<jow_laptop>
so that opkg does not upgrade them, e.g. when there's a new kernel with new kmods
<xiangfu>
jow_laptop: thanks for the info.
<kyak>
jow_laptop: nice hint! what's the flag name, how to do this?
<jow_laptop>
PKG_FLAGS:=hold
<jow_laptop>
see for example package/kernel/Makefile
<kyak>
ok, i see
<jow_laptop>
another interesting flag is "essential", opkg will refuse to uninstall such packages unless forced to
<jow_laptop>
I added that to libc and others
<kyak>
are there more flags?
<jow_laptop>
yes there are but none that make sense within the build environment
<jow_laptop>
the kernel partition size on the current NN images is fixed, right?
<kyak>
yeah.. hasn't changed
<jow_laptop>
and its an mtd partition without filesystem?
<kyak>
no filesystem there as far as i udnerstand
<jow_laptop>
in this case you could even implement kernel upgrades, by doing an mtd write from within a preinstall script
<kyak>
xiangfu: -^^
<jow_laptop>
and as far as I understood the NN can boot without any kmods?
<jow_laptop>
this would make it more robust in case opkg failed to upgrade them
<kyak>
hm yes, i think only sound is build as kmods
<xiangfu>
in 2011-02-16, there is one small command. 'mtd.nn'Â Â , for flash kernel. "mtd.nn flash kernel openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin"
<kyak>
jow_laptop: btw, do you have a workaround for that pango compilation issue (bug 8813) before a real fix is backported?
<jow_laptop>
kyak: you can try replacing PKG_FIXUP:=libtool with PKG_FIXUP:=autoreconf
<xiangfu>
needs go. see you
<wolfspraul>
jow_laptop: btw - thanks a lot for your suggestions, they are very appreciated!
<xiangfu>
thanks jow_laptop again. ;-)
<kyak>
jow_laptop: i did it last time when you suggested, but it didn't help -\
<jow_laptop>
kyak: I see.
<jow_laptop>
kyak: whats broken with autoreconf? missing macros?
<jow_laptop>
oh I see
<jow_laptop>
its one of those braindead projects that ship libtool in their aclocal.m4
<kyak>
jow_laptop: and it's pretty strange that it is working fine for xiangfu!
<kyak>
braindead :)
<jow_laptop>
I bet xiangfu has a suitable libtool on his host system
<kyak>
i.e. matching versions?
<jow_laptop>
correct
<kyak>
ok...
<jow_laptop>
so the issue is hidden
<jow_laptop>
let me check something
<kyak>
sure
<tuxbrain_away>
hi package mantainers , I need your help
<jow_laptop>
kyak: ah yes, with PKG_FIXUP:=autoreconf do also specify  PKG_REMOVE_FILES:=aclocal.m4
<jow_laptop>
kyak: see if that changes anything
<jow_laptop>
bbl... smoking break
<tuxbrain_away>
I'm reviewing what is needed to make Nanonote and AVR/Arduino companion, first step UBB is done, now in the software part we need avr-gcc, avr-lib ...stuff to compile and  avrdude to flash
<kyak>
jow_laptop: trying it now. Thanks! (i always wondered where all these nice things are documented, like PKG_REMOVE_FILES or PKG_FLAGS)?
<tuxbrain_away>
I have was investigating and the avr toolchain seems "not too hard" to achive, there is a script from AVRfreaks with steeps needed to build the toolchain from sources (includind needed patches)
<kyak>
tuxbrain_away: it's a bit tricky. Your host is mipsel, your build is x86, and your target is avr :) This is going to be crazy!@
<tuxbrain_away>
do you thing thrasforming this script (download source, aply patch, build) on a openwrt Makfile would be complicated?
<tuxbrain_away>
I have not right now an uptodate building openwrt building system , an no idea on how to manage the buildhost, but looking at the script seems quite straight forward...
<jow_laptop>
kyak: include/autotools.mk
<jow_laptop>
kyak: however autofail is such an incoherent mess that you often only understand the workarounds after poking around in it a few times
<jow_laptop>
imo
<jow_laptop>
afaik there is no doc on the internet that says you have to remove aclocal.m4 if it bundles a libtool which you don't want
<jow_laptop>
in theory you can to aclocal --force or something but that will fail if someone embedded libtool.m4 in acinclude.m4
<Jay7>
btw
<Jay7>
can someone port kexecboot to openwrt?
<jow_laptop>
kyak: oh btw, did you try without any PKG_FIXUP at all? with a bit of luck the shipped libtool is sane enough
<Jay7>
kexec-tools is required but isn't enough :)
<Jay7>
kexecboot itself should be ported
<jow_laptop>
it seems to include kexec something boot
<jow_laptop>
ok
<Jay7>
I mean kexecboot.org
<jow_laptop>
I see
<jow_laptop>
you can open a feature request ticket at dev.openwrt.org/newticket
<jow_laptop>
so it is not forgotten
<jow_laptop>
provide a pointer to the package and a short description what it is needed for exactly
<jow_laptop>
bbl... meeting
<Jay7>
ok, thanks for info
<tuxbrain_away>
jow_laptop: do you think obtaining  the avr packages can be done also opening a tiquet to openwrt?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: (avrdude) no, i didn't try to push to upstream yet. the patch isn't finished yet - i also want to add the clock provision logic for UART and such.
<tuxbrain_away>
ok, I don't know what you are saying but seems important :)
<tuxbrain_away>
so meanwhile you pach can't be summited upstream maybe we can do a avrdude_8_10 ipk on qi repos?
<wpwrak>
jow_laptop: (autofail) i see we have another member for the autocrap fan club ? ;-)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: (what's missing) the idea is that the UART board will run from the host (ben) clock. so i need to change the CLKSEL (sp?) fuses to the external clock.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: after this, the chip will only work if there's an external clock. afaik, this includes programming.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: so the nanonote driver in avrdude will have to set up the clock output, plus provide a means for selecting the clock speed, etc. i haven't implemented this yet.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: i think it'll be nice to send the whole bundle of avrdude patches in one go, that's why i'm waiting until the thing is done too.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: if you're in a hurry to make packages available, you can either make a temporary package or just compile the binaries and make them, plus avrdude.conf available somewhere
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: well, or wait for me to do it (within about a week), because i'll need that too for the recipients of ben-wpan samples :)
<tuxbrain_away>
not real hurry, just personal anxiousity  :) a week is far more than ok :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: (do it) i mean to upload the precompiled binaries. the easy way ;-)
<wpwrak>
lemme check if i have all the avrdude/toolchain build information in git already ...
<wpwrak>
hmm, ben-openwrt kernel is still at 2.6.32.27 ? :-( that way, the bit-bang library will have difficulties
<wpwrak>
btw, has anyone else but xiangfu done a full ben-openwrt build recently ? his 30 hours seem oddly long. does it really take so much time ?
<roh>
wpwrak: maybe his machine is oddly slow
<wpwrak>
roh: that's what i wonder about, yes
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: the machine is a single-core athlon
<roh>
uhm.
<wolfspraul>
it was at 8-9 hours before, so indeed there seems to be some slowing down
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: hmm, sounds old-ish and slow-ish then
<roh>
get him some fresh i7 box
<wolfspraul>
or maybe that's the time to build all 2200+ packages?
<wpwrak>
maybe he's running low on memory
<wpwrak>
roh: yeah, someone who does major builds on such a regular basis should have decent hardware
<wolfspraul>
I gladly welcome the news of hardware sponsors. wonderful.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: hehe ;-)
<wolfspraul>
it may be the time for all 2200 packages
<wolfspraul>
why don't we find that our first? ;-)
<wolfspraul>
before hitting the 'let's buy bigger gear' button
<wpwrak>
seems that even if it's "just" the 2200 packages, that would still need the bigger gear ?
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: to bring is from 30 hours to? 20? and those 10 hours improve what?
<wolfspraul>
I am not against faster machines in general. there is always a sweet spot and every year the next faster generation drops 30% or more in price.
<wolfspraul>
but I am far past the years where I thought building a 'icore7' or whatever it is machine right now will solve my problems for good
<wolfspraul>
I just pick a cheap one, and upgrade regularly.
<wolfspraul>
meanwhile, if someone wants to donate something high-end (today), go ahead
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: naw, i would expect a much more substantial speedup. e.g., when i built openwrt ~half a year ago, i don't think it took more than about 2 hours.
<wolfspraul>
again - we are building 2200 packages probably
<wolfspraul>
you can build a minimal rootfs in < 1hr
<wolfspraul>
what do you mean with 'build openwrt'?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (cutting edge hw) yeah, avoid that. but there's nice yesteryear's hw that's usually not very expensive
<wolfspraul>
exactly. and we have that.
<wolfspraul>
I will upgrade when the next generation is replaced by the uber-next generation.
<wpwrak>
hehe :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: you built the full_system 6 months ago in 2 hours?
<wolfspraul>
that's possible, it has grown a lot since then.
<wolfspraul>
on the buildhost, it was 8-9 hours last time I checked, but of course keeps growing as we add more and more packages.
<wolfspraul>
and now xiangfu is building all packages I believe, that may explain the jump to 30 hours.
<wolfspraul>
your machine is probably faster than the buildhost, so maybe back then the buildhost was at 4-5 hours, and your machine at 2
<wolfspraul>
in a few years it will be back down to 10 minutes, unless by then it has grown back up to 20 hours :-)
<wolfspraul>
it's funny how people adapt to their environments. give them more power, and they will find a (very reasonably explained) way to use it.
<wolfspraul>
if machines could do 20 Ghz today, it would still take a few hours to build a decent openwrt rootfs :-)
<wolfspraul>
simply because all other openwrt developers would have those 20ghz machines as well and everything would slowly 'bloat' to make full use of all available power...
<wolfspraul>
as you can see I'm pretty relaxed about all this. it'll come down again, one way or the other.
<wolfspraul>
I fire up my builds on buildhost at night, and in the morning it's there.
<LunohoD>
isn't it possible to store prebuild packages? and then genereate a rootfs by installing those packages?
<wolfspraul>
yes, we are working on that too
<wolfspraul>
so I think it's great that xiangfu is now always building all 2200+ packages
<wolfspraul>
maybe we can create a huge ImageBuilder from which one could then create rootfses without compilation much faster
<wolfspraul>
need to try
<wolfspraul>
imho the important thing is that multiple options and entry paths are open, to serve different peoples needs or preferences/experience
<wolfspraul>
some like to start with a bare minimal rootfs, some like to compile from source, some like to install packages, etc.
<wolfspraul>
some like to start with a full distro like Jlime or Debian in the first place
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: if the whole build of the full_system is just needed from time to time then it is not a very big problem the 30h
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: but if somebody wants to try something new and he needs to wait that time to try then maybe he would like a faster machine :P
<wolfspraul>
oh sure.
<wolfspraul>
but who needs to build 2200 packages from source to try something new?
<wolfspraul>
I wouldn't know what that 'new thing' could be
<wolfspraul>
at the very least one could only build stuff that can even fit onto a Ben NanoNote at the same time :-)
<wolfspraul>
let's gather some more hard data first, for example whether the 30h is for all packages, or just the ones that fit into the 512mb rootfs
<wolfspraul>
I think people are reading too much into the 30h - interesting though. the power of large numbers :-)
<wolfspraul>
you just say 'something is 100h', and then a big discussion starts
<wolfspraul>
oh
<wolfspraul>
100h!?
<wolfspraul>
really?
<wolfspraul>
that much?
<wolfspraul>
wow, we should...
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
calling it a day, n8 everybody
<wpwrak>
;-)
<wpwrak>
(30h just sounds _wrong_ ;-)
<wpwrak>
phew. still undefeated, even though wolfspraul's been catching up :)
<tuxbrain_away>
hey I'm top ten!
<wpwrak>
rjeffries has been quite silent lately. i take this as a good sign. maybe he's busy playing with his "new" ben :)
<wpwrak>
hopefully kicking himself that he didn't get one sooner ;-)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: since when is that top10?
<rjeffries>
OMG I need yo write More, listen LEXX
<rjeffries>
s/lexx/less
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (top10) you mean since when do we have this feature in qi-bot ? kyak added it a few days ago
<zrafa>
wpwrak: no.. when top10 starst to collect data
<zrafa>
for example.. I know that I am not the top10 if it is collecting data since two months ago
<kyak>
zrafa: should be around 2011-02-09
<kyak>
*since
<kyak>
jow_laptop: hm.. i tried removing PKG_FIXUP at all, tried setting PKG_FIXUP:=autoreconf and PKG_REMOVE_FILES:=aclocal.m4, adding include $(INCLUDE_DIR)/autotools.mk.. none of these helped
<tuxbrain_away>
zrafa:I will also annoy you and jlime/OE crowd, I want avr toolchain in Jlime !
<tuxbrain_away>
is not yet in OE so a recipt is needed
<zrafa>
tuxbrain_away: you mean an avr toolchain which runs on mipsel?
<roh>
zrafa: why not?
<roh>
tuxbrain_away: i annoyed the openwrt guys before.. i think most stuff is already there
<zrafa>
roh: no sure, is not is more comfortable to cross compile on PC'
<zrafa>
?
<zrafa>
is not it*
<roh>
zrafa: linux is linux. why not run the avr-gcc on a mipsel?
<zrafa>
roh: yeah.. and why no run openoffice on nn?.. it is linux
<roh>
i mean.. your code is usually not very big. even the arduino stuff works (well.. not the java-ui but all the rest)
<zrafa>
roh: I am asking if it is not more comfortable to encourge the people to cross compile things on PC? I am okey with toolchains for every archs
<roh>
openoffice needs hundreds of mbytes of ram and disk. avr gcc doesnt.
<roh>
comfort is very in the eye of the observer. if i got only a nn around id hate to need a pc only to flash an avr or compile code for it.
<zrafa>
I am sure that every nn owner has a pc
<zrafa>
near
<zrafa>
<20mts
<zrafa>
I have not seen buyers with shipping address from chile desert yet
<zrafa>
nn buyes
<wpwrak>
zrafa: actually, chances are that if someone there buys one, they'd be very well-equipped. after all, that's where a huge space observatory complex is located :)
<zrafa>
and again. I am okey with toolchains for every arch. I am asking if working with toolchains is not more comfortable on PC than nn, and encourge people to use PC for that
<roh>
if i got a pc around, i dont need a nn for anything.
<roh>
sorry.. but thats how it is.
<wpwrak>
roh: i use the ben to talk to my circuits - that's something my pc can't do easily :)
<roh>
wpwrak: i use a stk500 for that
<zrafa>
roh: (that is how it is) that is your pov, no for everyone. no sense
<roh>
how is it not open? you get a schematic with it
<zrafa>
on the tuxbrain_away case it would be useful I guess. He works with nn and arduino or things like that.. so having all the stuff in nn is something cool surely
<wpwrak>
ah, with schem. darn. well, how about ... burn the evil capitalist exploiters and hang their minions ! there must be *something*Â Â :)
<Malkiot>
Hello there, I'm having some problems getting my Radeon HD 6950 recognised. Win7 only recognises the "standard VGA" any suggestions?
<LunohoD>
yes, install linux
<Malkiot>
appreciated, but no thx ^^
<LunohoD>
is radeon hd 6950 a copyleft hardware?
<Malkiot>
excuse my ignorance but what is "copyleft hardware"? It's a prahpics card manufactured by AMD
<LunohoD>
Malkiot: why don't you call your local microsoft support hotline?
<LunohoD>
or amd, whatever
<Malkiot>
...never got good support from big companies before... they usually manage to nuke everything selse instead
<mirko>
kyak: pong
<M_Rojas>
Malkiot: ¿?
<Malkiot>
yes rojas?
<M_Rojas>
Malkiot: I think that you are in the wrong place asking that ...
<Malkiot>
ah ok... know any place where I can ask?
<Malkiot>
soz about that...
<M_Rojas>
no, I don't ... maybe ... search in google ... ;-)
<Malkiot>
I did and found this, bye ^^
<M_Rojas>
bye, good luck!
<M_Rojas>
the room it clean ... :-D
<panda|x201>
start updating to 02-18
<zrafa>
M_Rojas: we should check why google bring M$ people with hardware problem . I have seen several different guys getting in to ask about some graphic card which does not work
<zrafa>
and many of them use win
<zrafa>
No idea how they find this channel like a channel for support of graphics cards + win
<rjeffries>
wpwrak you have mail
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: sounds good. now let's see what you get :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I've asked Doug what he would charge to put together bid package
<rjeffries>
but if he is too busy maybe I do it
<rjeffries>
thinking out loud, what if we buy panels of UBB is there a reasonable way to cut the UBB parts
<rjeffries>
I assume "no" bit worth noodling. i actually think that is the hardest part, no?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: the fab should deliver them pre-cut or nearly pre-cut (i.e, easy to remove from the board)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I figured as much
<rjeffries>
tuxbrain tuxbrain_away what color will your UBB pcbs be?
<rjeffries>
if I go forward (and who knows?) the two versions should look different, green vs blue or red or whatever
<wpwrak>
btw, qpkg isn't a replacement for opkg yet. for now, it can just tell you what packages should be installed. so you still need opkg to do the actual work. (and to put them in the right order)
<kyak>
oh! that's not good
<kyak>
because i ran into troubles running opkg install links-x11
<kyak>
kristianpaul: hm, ok.. a little bit confusing. Two sites, diferent toolchains :)
<kristianpaul>
kyak: r u aware of jlime-pkg ?
<kyak>
no
<kristianpaul>
Oh !
<wpwrak>
jlime-pkg would be the most immediate solution
<kyak>
running it now
<wpwrak>
it's slow but memory-efficient
<kyak>
maybe i don't need the toolchain after all
<kristianpaul>
no no ! qpkg !!
<kristianpaul>
:-)
<wpwrak>
the idea for qpkg is basically to do what jlime-pkg does, just faster (and with more complete coverage of dependencies - jlime-pkg doesn't handle all the possible cases)
<wpwrak>
but it's not quite finished yet. priorities ... :)
<kyak>
ok, i'm already running links-x11 :) good!
<kristianpaul>
in jlime?
<kyak>
yes
<kristianpaul>
neat
<kyak>
i was going to explore jlime repo a bit
<kyak>
what does it offer, and what's actually usable/usefull
<kristianpaul>
:D
<kristianpaul>
i like tangogps :-)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i guess we won't hear from him for a while then :)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: :-)
<wpwrak>
what was it ... ~15k packages ? or ~20k ? even at one package per minute, and only 25% applications (and not libs or such) that would be 60-80 hours. well, that's about one week ;-)
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: what happened with that file???
<kristianpaul>
np i have it
<kyak>
wpwrak: i have you a feeling that you strongly overestimating the number of packages. There are 20 (twenty) centerim-* packages - each package for different locale, devel, debug, doc. DOes that count?
<wpwrak>
kyak: alright, maybe you'll be done in half a week :)
<kristianpaul>
kyak: thats a list of all files from jlime repo, i think may help you
<kristianpaul>
kyak: files per package
<kyak>
hm.. ok, thnkas. Though i'm not sure how it would help :)
<kristianpaul>
you can grep for keywords at least
<kristianpaul>
or wel..
<kyak>
the list of packages is enough, luckily opkg list does the job
<kyak>
without running out of memory
<kristianpaul>
;-)))
<kyak>
wpwrak: don't tempt me into counting the *real* number of packages in OE. I.e. excluding devel, debug, docs, locales, broken/not applicable for Ben etc. and comparing it with openwrt :)
<wpwrak>
wonders how long a malicious idea, one having taken root, takes to worm its way through the barriers of social conditioning
<wpwrak>
s/one/once/
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: you have it? great ;)
<kyak>
hm... irssi-0.8.13?
<kyak>
and no irssi with ssl support?...
<zrafa>
kyak: you should download the jlime toolchain from qi
<zrafa>
server
<zrafa>
kyak: that is the proper one
<kyak>
yup, got it
<kyak>
installs gtkperf
<zrafa>
kyak: btw, bc and top runs on jlime
<zrafa>
:)
<kyak>
hm, where is gtkperf?
<zrafa>
what is that?
<kyak>
gtk performance tool
<zrafa>
is that something gtk2?
<kyak>
yeah, i think so
<kyak>
don't see gtk2 at all
<zrafa>
you do not need then gtkperf: we can tell you the output ;) slow slow.. wait... slow.. a gtk2 button appears.. wait.. slow..
<zrafa>
kyak: which jlime version you use? the one on qi server?
<kyak>
it's pretty strange, cause it's working not so bad in openwrt (like in stardict)
<kyak>
no, the one from jlime.org
<kristianpaul>
muffinman?
<kyak>
it seems that gtk2 is not ported to OE. Could it be?
<zrafa>
well, abiword works on jlime. But I do not see it comfortable. ANd iirc stardict takes a while before it runs
<kyak>
muffinman, yes
<kyak>
i'm wondering, why are packages so old?
<kyak>
i'm looking at OE git
<zrafa>
kyak: you should try the one at qi I would say. THe current jlime at jlime.com (no jlime.org) has a repo broken. Some packages are okey. others no
<kyak>
oh, ok
<zrafa>
kyak: the repo has one year old. Which packages are so old? which features you miss?
<zrafa>
kyak: and gkt2 is at OE since it was born I guess
<kyak>
zrafa: irssi is 0.8.13 and no ssl support
<kyak>
centerim is 4.22.5
<kyak>
i'm mostly looking at packages i'm intersted in
<zrafa>
kyak: you can fill a but at bugtracker of jlime.com and the packages you want eventually will appear like magic on repo
<zrafa>
but=bug
<kyak>
ok, i was just expecting that the repo is more or less frequently updated
<zrafa>
yeah, once a year surely
<zrafa>
so far, in one year, just few guys asked for newer packages. In fact < 10. And at least two of them were interested to see packages form jlime to port to openwrt
<zrafa>
so the repo updates frequency is okey I would say
<zrafa>
kyak: maybe if you are one of them you could try some angstron distribution, no for nn, for any other platform with a lot more users and devs. There you will find surely OE repos very often updated with a lot more of applications and a lot more saner.