<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: no. but I can try to build it in my PC. but you need wait at least ~30 hours. build from 0 needs ~30 hours. maybe I not build all packages in my pc. :)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: the "len 454656 " is not correct.
<xiangfu>
it's should be :"Finish! (len 524288 start_page 0 page_num 128)"
<xiangfu>
everytime we update the feeds.conf there are different package not compile :(
<kristianpaul>
:S
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: did we set CONFIG_ALL=y in config.full_system ?
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: yes.
<wolfspraul>
I don't think that's a good idea.
<wolfspraul>
the people that were used to using config.full_system will all (100%) run into this and need manual explanation to remove it.
<wolfspraul>
if you make a change like this, you need a new name
<wolfspraul>
config.something_new
<wolfspraul>
otherwise others will fall into the trap (as you see now)
<xiangfu>
no, I will not create another new name.
<xiangfu>
I can add "CONFIG_ALL=y" manually in buildhost.
<wolfspraul>
sure, also works
<xiangfu>
there only one line different "CONFIG_ALL=y"
<wolfspraul>
my point is just that by enabling CONFIG_ALL=y, you change the nature/main characteristic of building config.full_system
<wolfspraul>
so other people who are using config.full_system will learn this the hard way
<xiangfu>
ok.
<wolfspraul>
not out of their own choice, at their own timing, but by having their expectation what config.full_system does suddenly broken one day
<xiangfu>
I will remove it. add some comment in config.full_system.
<wolfspraul>
good thing we only have a few people bulding config.full_system, I think they all already fell into this by now.
<wolfspraul>
if we had more people using it, you would need to communicate with each one of them now :-)
<wolfspraul>
and explain them about CONFIG_ALL and that they have to manually disable it.
<xiangfu>
yes.
<xiangfu>
I enable by thinking. config.full_system is reproduce the buildhost compile :)
<xiangfu>
ok I will disable it now. and add some comment.
<wolfspraul>
I understand why you enabled it. but you forgot the consequence for others using config.full_system. the difficulty of communicating this change to them, and the timing of the change for them.
<wolfspraul>
even though there are only 3-5 people using this, it's hard to communicate the same message to them at the same time.
<wolfspraul>
if there were dozens or hundreds, it would be crazy difficult
<kristianpaul>
that more clean, less typing also :-)
<zrafa>
now let me check those build instructions
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: I use often the --host= with configure.. and for example, when I have set the env with the openmoko tooolchain or with jlime toolchain I run configure with : ./configure --host=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi (for openmoko.. which has all the toolchain binaries named arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-*)
<zrafa>
it set all the env at the same command line of configure
<zrafa>
that is okey
<zrafa>
what is wrong?
<kristianpaul>
openjpeg need to modify Makefile...
<kristianpaul>
why??
<zrafa>
I do not know .. you asked "can i just set... bla bla?"
<kristianpaul>
jje
<kristianpaul>
yes
<kristianpaul>
thats another question :-)
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: if the makefile has harcoded the gcc family binaries and the soft does not provide configure then yes, you will need to modify makefile. You could do it generic
<zrafa>
so it just use CC value
<zrafa>
uses
<kristianpaul>
ah missing configure, right
<kyak>
bartbes: hey! it's cool. How do i know which games are available? Have you thought about something like nlove-run --list to list available games from the repo?
<kyak>
xiangfu: do you think it makes sense to remove packages that are built as modules from config.full_system at all? Since you are building CONFIG_ALL, they will be included as modules anyway...
<xiangfu>
yes. sure.
<xiangfu>
kyak: by the way. I got an idea that remove the openwrt-xburst.git/files/ to a package.
<xiangfu>
mv them to nanonote-file package.
<xiangfu>
then add small shell script file to /etc/uci-defaults. copy all those overwrite file from like '/usr/lib/nanonote-overwrite/*' to /etc/
<xiangfu>
kyak: I mess up the build folder of buildhost. I have to re-build from "0" again. mean needs wait more then 30 hours, I can release a test version of image.
<xiangfu>
feel sorry for so delay for openwrt release. :(
<kyak>
xiangfu: not a problem. A consistent image would be so much better
<kyak>
(also so the people would see #1 compilation count in uname -a, it is an indication that the image was built from the first time and fine)
<kyak>
it also feels kinda funny to see numbers like #32 in jlime :)
<kyak>
the number shows the level of confidence in make system
<Jay7>
because most of users are readers, not writers :)
<dvdk>
xiangfu: still missed brainless in your last patch to config.full_system :'(
<kyak>
dvdk: why won't you add it yourself? ;)
<dvdk>
does not want to inject more bugs :)
<kyak>
that's called "injecting your packages into rootfs" :)
<bartbes>
kyak: ehm, there's no way yet
<bartbes>
but once I get some more spare time I will do stuff like that
<bartbes>
together with versioning
<bartbes>
I can give you the current list though
<kyak>
sure, go ahead
<bartbes>
CartesianCardinalZap
<bartbes>
clock
<bartbes>
EarthDefenders
<bartbes>
npong
<bartbes>
snake
<kyak>
ok, i'll give it a try :)
<kyak>
CartesianCardinalZap - what a name!
<bartbes>
yeah...
<zrafa>
kyak: uname # number does not show any level of confidence in make system. It is just from kernel IIRC (and it is not built with rootfs). And in fact, it shows our work with kernel 2.6.34, adding new features and removing uneeded
<zrafa>
kyak: building kernel always works if compiler is a good one for kernel and your config is okey
<kyak>
zrafa: bigger # show how many times the kernel has been built without running make clean. If you trust your make system, feel free to us old object files. I prefer (and it is generally accepted - have a look it linux distros around) to know that my kernel..
<kyak>
..was built from scratch, thus leaving no chance for odl lefovers
<zrafa>
kyak: yeah, sure. But it is not wrong when you are just adding and removing features. The idea was showing kristoffer all the features added/removed until he thinks it is fine
<zrafa>
it is make, it knows a bit what to do
<kyak>
yeah, i just wondering why it is such a problem to build the release image of jlime from scratch
<kyak>
just like xiangfy is doing now for openwrt
<zrafa>
kyak: about distros and kernel: yeah, you are right. But it is not a distro from scratch (if you are talking about betas).. It is a work which shows features to discuss. If you want to build jlime from scratch use OE, B_Lizzard is doing some work with preview release there. Maybe you like that, we give you that
<zrafa>
kyak: no a lot of advertising about that here because that is not a proper distro for qi, very log discussed already
<kyak>
btw, i've seen one of the images of B_Lizzard, it's pretty good
<B_Lizzard>
Thanks, kyak
<kyak>
the setup wizard is a nice idea
<B_Lizzard>
I think I'll start over right this time
<B_Lizzard>
With EFL
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: it was showed on fosdem
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: EFL will not like you on nn :(
<B_Lizzard>
zrafa, I know, I made an image for tuxbrain with quake etc
<B_Lizzard>
Why not?
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: it uses 32bbp internally IIRC, and nn just hast 16bbp mode. Maybe I am wrong, I should check nn features
<zrafa>
but if that is like I remember then every time EFL wants to show something it will take time translating 32 -> 16
<kyak>
eh, what EFL?
<kyak>
*what is
<zrafa>
kyak: Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: but well, for simple widgets it should be nice anyway.. And no a lot of time lost (we will not write games with that :P )
<kyak>
ah, ok.. that reminds we about efforts of bartbes to build e17 for usage without X
<B_Lizzard>
zrafa, otherwise we should try making our own widget set
<B_Lizzard>
Or porting SDL-Widgets to C
<zrafa>
kyak: how was that bartbes work?
<kyak>
bartbes: btw, did you have any luck building e17?
<kyak>
hm, i think i remembered correctly.. now i'm not sure :)
<zrafa>
kyak: the libraries works on fb+sdl, but no sure if the WM
<zrafa>
kyak: I remember I built for him e17. It is on extra packages.
<zrafa>
kyak: but no remember him building it himself
<kyak>
zrafa: oh, ok.. So the WM is not going to work without X, right?
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: I did a little wrapper for SDL-Widgets for just a button. No nice :( It works, but it takes work. The developer is not interested, and also I started to add some way to press buttons with keyboard. ANd the developer did not like the idea :P
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: he said that if we are going to do that (adding qwerty support to SDL-widgets) he will not accept those features and we will need to fork .. He was happy it seems :)
<B_Lizzard>
As I said, either from scratch or remake it in C
<zrafa>
kyak: I think so, but no sure
<B_Lizzard>
This should take work
<kyak>
zrafa: do i understand corretly that you are trying to build some WM using EFL on top of fb/SDL?
<B_Lizzard>
EFL is promising, it has Samsung's backing, and it recently reached version 1.0
<B_Lizzard>
Well, the base EFL libraries, anyways.
<zrafa>
kyak: no. I just built the EFL and e17. No more. I tried to start the wm on X. Black screen appeared like if it is working. Because there are not shortcuts.. I could not do anything (I would need to press right mouse button to find some menu for example). After that
<zrafa>
I stoped trying. I just uploaded the packages because maybe somebody would like to try some E17 application, which should work.
<zrafa>
(or write an application using efl)
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: yeah, we could write that in C and sdl. And we need qwerty support :P
<B_Lizzard>
zrafa, you are the expert here
<B_Lizzard>
I basically need some way of making applications with a modern widget set
<B_Lizzard>
I cannot continue making Muffinman without applications
<B_Lizzard>
I am going to address tuxbrain's various issues
<B_Lizzard>
But really, my main problem is the lack of applications
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: expert: no much, just theory. We can start using sdl-widgets as start point as you suggested. And write a few widgets. It could be useful for qi-openwrt as well because we are going to use sdl.
<B_Lizzard>
The SDL-Widgets source code is a mess
<wpwrak>
zrafa: do there's a new release of jlime coming ? btw, i don't see a reason why we couldn't discuss jlime (in the context of the nanonote) here
<B_Lizzard>
I wonder how you can find your way through that mess
<B_Lizzard>
wpwrak, the latest release from me is available on the website
<B_Lizzard>
Check the front page for that blog post
<zrafa>
wpwrak: B_Lizzard is doing the proper work with muffinman on OE (and kristoffer is pushing the patches, he has the power). No idea when I will try to do something for a muffinman useful for qi. I mean, qi community would need some way to build the OE jlime without the already patented problem discussed. Who will do that work? (on OE I mean)
<B_Lizzard>
zrafa, if it wasn't for EFL and Elementary I wouldn't think of it twice, but it seems a bit useless
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: sdl-widgets.. yes. I read it. It is not big thought, and it is simple (still if it is a mess).
<B_Lizzard>
If you think we can work something up quickly (in months), we could sure do that
<B_Lizzard>
I'd be interested in making a shell-script bindings
<B_Lizzard>
-a
<kyak>
zrafa: i thought you resolved patented issues and OE was capable of making the "clean" rootfs by using some flags (as seen in mplayer's recipy, for instance)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: so.. yes, muffinman has had a lot of work last weeks (thanks B_Lizzard for that). Just we did not say much here.
<zrafa>
kyak: no. I just did a jlime version without patented technologis for qi servers.
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: ah.. like zenity?
<B_Lizzard>
Ugh, no
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: more like what?
<kyak>
what's the problem to make the clean version again? it doesn't require any manual work, just set the flag?
<wpwrak>
zrafa: i think the "build fill distro, then remove the offending stuff before uploading" approach would be quite acceptable
<B_Lizzard>
Well, a bit more powerful
<B_Lizzard>
I guess
<B_Lizzard>
zenity doesn't let you play with widgets
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: yea, but the idea I mean. SOmething useful to use with scripts right?
<B_Lizzard>
Yeah, but more powerful for full applications and whatnot
<wpwrak>
B_Lizzard: (front page) nice !
<zrafa>
kyak: no sure. I do not know OE (internally). Which flag you mean?
<wpwrak>
kyak: i think the issue is that there is no such flag in OE :)
<B_Lizzard>
Yes, yes, you can have OE build you stuff sans patented technologies by setting a variable
<wpwrak>
B_Lizzard: oh, great ! so the problem has already been solved ?
<zrafa>
wpwrak: ("build fill distro, then remove the offending stuff before uploading) yeah, but the rootfs built from OE is hard to modify. The repository would be okey
<B_Lizzard>
Well, I don't set that but I guess yes.
<kyak>
so building a clean image is just the matter of unsetting this flag
<B_Lizzard>
Not really
<kyak>
just like BUILD_PATENDED in openwrt
<zrafa>
kyak: B_Lizzard: have you tried that? (flag). I remember now others talking about that flag. It did not work for others when they discussed that
<B_Lizzard>
I still ship GMU and mpg123 and whatnot
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: FLAG=PATENTED_STUFF_ONLY
<kyak>
openwrt ships gmu, too. Just exclude mp3 support for clean image
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: then build :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: i think ENTERPRISE_DISTRO works the other way: set it and the nasty things disappear
<kyak>
wpwrak: whatever.. :)
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (root image) well, one could just adopt the myroot approach for making the rootfs image anyway. that would make it more sane anyway. away with all the heathen rituals surrounding these rootfs images ! :)
<kyak>
zrafa: i'm not really into patents and stuff, but aren't you afraid to host "unclean" images on your server? Is it legal? If it is legal, why qi is not doing that?
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard:  build_repo.sh :  for i in all_packages ; do  package_has_patented_stuff j && build j  ; done
<B_Lizzard>
So, zrafa, what do you think?
<wpwrak>
kyak: jlime doesn't sell hardware
<kyak>
wpwrak: so it is only prohibited for companies who sell hardware?
<zrafa>
kyak: it is legal if you do not sell hardware with that
<B_Lizzard>
I don't think Sweden respects software patents.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yeah, my root would be the best. I agree
<wpwrak>
kyak: well ... let's say that you're much less likely to get into trouble with software
<kyak>
qi could ship "free" versions of openwrt and suggest "non-free" version for re-flasinh. Would it be legal?
<zrafa>
wpwrak: and like I have said before, I do not like openwrt or OE or whatever for building rootfs :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: with hardware, we know that you get attacked if you do that
<kyak>
wpwrak: ok, i see
<wpwrak>
kyak: qi can't officially "suggest". that would still be considered infringement
<zrafa>
kyak: all is okey. But qi could be sue by others if that patented stuff is on qi servers or links from qi servers
<wpwrak>
kyak: you'd basically advertize the capability
<zrafa>
kyak: still if qi does not sell the hardware with the problem inside
<zrafa>
B_Lizzard: Sweden does not respect anything
<kyak>
they could say that the "official software image" page on qi-s wiki links to jlime. And jlime offeres patented stuff. Then jlime will have problems
<B_Lizzard>
Um, I don't think it has to do with selling hardware or not
<B_Lizzard>
Nor is Qi responsible is someone downloads an mp3 codec when he hasn't payed the license cost
<B_Lizzard>
Well, wherever that applies.
<wpwrak>
kyak: (link to jlime) most likely, qi would have a problem, because it would be advertized as "official"
<zrafa>
kyak: jlime does not sell hardware, so jlime is okey.
<wpwrak>
kyak: opions differ in whether a "non-advertizing" link would also be an issue. wolfgang thinks it would.
<zrafa>
kyak: I mean, jlime will not have problems for the patented stuff. Just the people selling hardware will have.
<wpwrak>
zrafa: jlime could probably still get problems. e.g., they could try to get the server shut down. or go after any participants in countries where they can make the patents stick. (note that also the EU is partially allowing sw patenta)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yeah, but that is another issue. The people doing sues want money
<wpwrak>
zrafa: but it would a) cost more than what they could wring out of you guys, b) may look bad, c) you're not visible enough to really matter.
<zrafa>
kyak: yes?
<zrafa>
are you sure? I did not add that
<wpwrak>
zrafa: change jlime to ubuntu or fedora and the story may be very different
<kyak>
yeah, i'm reading now
<zrafa>
kyak: the first link. Right. Let me fix. That is not the idea. It is supposly dont having links
<wpwrak>
kyak: ("official" link) heh ;-) i'll leave this to wolfgang to sort out. in my opinion, a mere reference ought to be fine
<kyak>
well, teechnically speaking, just mentioning "jlime" in qi-'s wiki then would lead to problems
<kyak>
because a customer can google for jlime
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (people suing want money) sometimes, they just sue you even if you have no money, to intimidate others
<zrafa>
kyak: fixed. great
<wpwrak>
kyak: wolfgang says that google is enough of a barrier
<kyak>
all right! it looks for me, that it is both super hard and super easy to sue someone for patenting issues..
<wpwrak>
kyak: there are no clear legal rules in all this. the question is simply at what level of provocation you'd expect the other side to leash out
<kyak>
it's a very complicated question :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I guess it's patent day again. I am proposing a slight semantic clarification.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: well, I will try to upload all the stuff as anonymous, using a proxy, and asking to my sister to do that. So I do not get in troubles ;)
<wpwrak>
kyak: you can sue anyone at any time
<wolfspraul>
'software patent' means that a patent infringement claim can be made against a software vendor
<wpwrak>
kyak: even if you have nothing, you can make this very costly for them
<kristianpaul>
plop
<kyak>
wpwrak: sue and wine, i mean
<kyak>
*win
<wolfspraul>
'software patent' does not mean that a non-software patent is not covering software. in any of the big patent jurisdictions, you can bring forward a 'software patent' infringement claim against a hardware vendor. what is patented is the implementation (which has to be a physical machine)
<wpwrak>
kyak: define "victory" :-) get a judge rule in your favour ? or are yuo happy enough if you've destroyed your opponent ?
<wolfspraul>
the discussion about 'software patents' is largely misleading (and in favor of patent owners who can calm down some people)
<wpwrak>
kyak: note that a lot of cases don't finish - people settle out of court
<wolfspraul>
'software patents' would never be a thread to pure free software anyway, because even if the patent applies, you cannot expect to squeeze much money out of people who have no money and are not making money with software.
<wolfspraul>
threat
<wolfspraul>
the point of 'software patents' is to be able to tax software vendors, the largest are in the US, so that's all fine
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (no threat to free sw) except if it's "pour encouranger les autres"
<wolfspraul>
extending true 'software patents' to the EU would yield negligible additional revenue for the patent owners
<wolfspraul>
mp3 patents are 'software patents' of course, they describe an algorithm/program
<kyak>
wolfspraul: it is not completely correct that there is nothing to take from free software. Free sftware is stealing their clients
<wolfspraul>
but in the EU the infringement can only be brought forward if you sell a physical machine
<wolfspraul>
which is where the money is anyway. look at the money and you understand why the patent owners don't need software patents in the EU :-)
<wolfspraul>
'software patent' = patent that allows an infringement claim against Microsoft
<wolfspraul>
I rest my case. :-)
<wpwrak>
;-)
<kyak>
wolfspraul: do you have an idea how much it would cost to include the mp3 support, for exmaple?
<kyak>
i mean, legally
<wolfspraul>
the biggest cost would come in the exclusion of others, submitting oneself to a bad system, breaking the idea of copyleft
<wolfspraul>
if you have to have this patent license, you need to make a down-payment of a 6-figure USD amount into an escrow account (as a protection in case you go bankrupt).
<wolfspraul>
then you need to pay per device, the amount is somewhere between a few cents and a few USD
<wolfspraul>
they also tie you into strict NDAs so you cannot talk about any of your specific arrangements
<wolfspraul>
I'm sure people get grossly different deals in this system :-)
<wolfspraul>
that's why there is this idea of a 'patent flat tax', which of course the patent owners fight as hard as they can.
<zrafa>
bartbes: we used opien long time ago in jlime, but no now. It is good if you just use it and only that
<zrafa>
kyak: EFL is the only good library for embedded devices around, but it needs power and modern devices (for modern I mean most of current closed mobile phones and things like that)
<urandom__>
wow that fbui indeed looks nice, seems like it is not developed actively anymore but the idea is very great
<wpwrak>
zrafa: hmm, no opencola light ? :(
<zrafa>
wpwrak: remove sugar :P
<wpwrak>
eek
<rjeffries>
smiles
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: If you can hookup a SPI like ethernet card to the nanonote you have your tiny freedombox
<kristianpaul>
Is easy i think, as linux already have drivers for then..
<kristianpaul>
Actually i want to do it, may be with the basic ethernet module jeelabs sell
<rjeffries>
maybe wpwrak will design an ethernet 8:10 card. but would it need it;s own power supply?
<kristianpaul>
or a custom desig if you want be fancy, but not for me now
<kristianpaul>
dont think other people will, just do it or buy it :-)
<kristianpaul>
power suply, easy part it just get that from the nanonote
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: but hey man, it is posible !!!
<kristianpaul>
I like freedombox idea more if you can power it with a nanonote, why not...
<kristianpaul>
any wway..
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: I do not know anything about, so I am asking like a pre newbie, without any knowledge about
<rjeffries>
after spending time with Ben, my thought veer toward how practical it might be for somone other than sharism to do a derivative
<rjeffries>
that does NOt use the current case. "Tiny" is not high on my desired funcy=tionality list
<rjeffries>
then the question becomes, is that investment a better idea that using some other mass produced gadget
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: yes that chip, (microchip one) i have one, also the ethernet connector and oscilator, just lack  skills to design the PCB..
<rjeffries>
maybe one of the 5,000 cheap tablets...
<kristianpaul>
but may be that could be my hello world i kicad :')
<kristianpaul>
s/i/in
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I do not have EE myself. I know people who could hack out a little ethernet addon
<rjeffries>
in their sleep.
<dvdk>
kyak: bartbes: what about nano-x http://www.microwindows.org/; they even have libx11 compatability wrappers (but NO x-server)
<rjeffries>
could use UBB at first to connect to say a JeeLabs module, yes indeed
<rjeffries>
there is a global market demand for UBB that approaches maybe... 75 UBB boards
<rjeffries>
I will soon be shopping for a private islam]nd with all the profits
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: i'm not EE either but people can read, think, do, and learn those days easilly :-)
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: sure UBB will help a lot
<bartbes>
dvdk: you are free to port it, you know
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: you aalready made it, right ? :D
<bartbes>
:P
<kristianpaul>
port !
<kristianpaul>
:)
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I like how you think actually I am sure I could copy amd paste a first design, then have expert clean it up. no problemo. but is that where I wish to invest my time?
<bartbes>
also
<bartbes>
"Window management is not included, and the window look and feel must be created through a widget set or directly by the applications programmer."
<bartbes>
and "There is some discussion about converting the Nano-X API to be X Window System compatible."
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul No, I have an almost final PCB fab spec, should be done in a day or so. then send a few docments to a PCB fab expert and ask for quotes
<rjeffries>
tuxbrain is far ahead of me. my effort is prolly at best a crosscheck to see how USA prices compare with EU prices
<rjeffries>
we know that China would be cheap, but volume of UBB demand does not warrnet going to China
<kristianpaul>
come on !, you dont China for a UBB
<kristianpaul>
or you said 10000 UBB ?
<kristianpaul>
units*
<kristianpaul>
:D
<rjeffries>
data point re Ben: plugged it into a Vista laptop. Windows asks for a driver disk for "Ethernet Gadget"
<zrafa>
bartbes: dvdk : why somebody would like to use something X Window System compatible without using X?
<bartbes>
I just told him it isn't compatible :P
<rjeffries>
at some point being able to attache Ben to windows would be A Good Idea. easy way to move files back and forth
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i think the main issue with china is that you don't have a previous contact. shipping can be relatively inexpensive.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak the people I use do LOTS of stuff in chana, and shipping is no big deal
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: alright, then you have a choice there
<rjeffries>
For say 1,000 UBBs it may or may nor make sense that China fab wins
<rjeffries>
I don't care where PCBs are fabbed
<kyak>
dvdk: oh, it even has "Nano" in name
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yup. contrary to popular belief, there is R&D in china - and they also need small prototype quantities :)
<rjeffries>
by the way the consuktant (from a medium size and sucessful telecom company) suggested we request a small "first artcle" rin to check design
<rjeffries>
I think for UBB they would run 1,000 or 500, set them aside, ship us say qty 10 to cehck
<rjeffries>
high probability it is ok, if yes they ship rest
<rjeffries>
if no they adjuuts process and re-run
<dvdk>
zrafa: nanoX has an efficient native interface without libX11
<dvdk>
zrafa: it just supports libX11 wrapper for easier porting of old apps
<rjeffries>
does anybody have a thought on what it would take so Ben can be seen as a disk by Windows? That must be available
<dvdk>
zrafa: or do you want to rewrite any gui capable s/w you like?  i think the Tk gui of Tcl runs on nano-x's libx11
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul using Ben attached to Windows is not a crazy idea. please comment
<rjeffries>
dvdl Tk gui for TCL would be very desirable on Ben. especially in context of Ben as mnaster node for JeeLabs stuff
<rjeffries>
he uses Tcl a LOT
<dvdk>
who is he?
<bartbes>
dvdk: yeah I think tk can do that
<kristianpaul>
dvdk: jeelabs founder or master developert i think
<dvdk>
kristianpaul: what is  jeelabs?
<dvdk>
googles
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (sample) maybe. would depend on what the fab house charges.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (windows) since you seem to care about windows, that sounds like a nice development project for you :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I am not a developer. if only developers are welcome here I have come to the wrong place
<rjeffries>
I doubt very much this requires a new driver.
<kyak>
unfortunately, it only works 4 hours in a row. THen you need to reboot your PC
<kyak>
unless you pay for it, of course
<kyak>
rndis support is disabled, since it's not working anyway. .So ben will be detected as cdc/ecm usb device (if you have the appropriate driver)
<kyak>
basically, the same was written in the article i mentioned
<kyak>
onyl at that time it was necessary to patch the kernel to disable that rndis
<Jay7>
hm.. another toolking discussion here
<kyak>
then you can use any scp client (winscp?) to copy files between Ben and PC
<Jay7>
opie is fine for low-memory devices
<Jay7>
but dead
<Jay7>
efl is good but need more apps
<Jay7>
and own graphics server instead of X
<bartbes>
rjeffries: actually
<bartbes>
there was a driver
<bartbes>
it's in there too
<bartbes>
don't remember the name, but in theory all you need is a kernel recompile
<kyak>
the name's cdc/ecm and no need to recompile the kernel :)
<wpwrak>
i vaguely remember that what one needed was some INF file for windows that would tell it that this thing that identifies itself as a cnc net device need the - surprise, surprise - cnc net driver.
<wpwrak>
or at least that's what one source said :)
<bartbes>
kyak: a mass storage driver, not usb networking
<kyak>
ah, that
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: are you interested in having a nanonote with ethernet port?
<rjeffries>
kyak yes mass storage is all easy peasy lemon squeezy
<bartbes>
oh btw
<bartbes>
I found a use case
<bartbes>
;)
<bartbes>
I use a website to study for tests
<bartbes>
it's specifically for learning languages
<bartbes>
you enter some vocabulary and it starts testing you
<bartbes>
well, I found an easy export format, wrote a small lua script
<bartbes>
and now I can practice on my ben
<wpwrak>
bartbes: great !
<urandom__>
oh i was thinking about using ben for learning vocabs myself but always forgot about it
<urandom__>
what website do you use, bartbes?
<bartbes>
it's a dutch website
<bartbes>
the file format was "Backpack" though
<urandom__>
i use Parley for learning vocabs mostly
<bartbes>
I doubt it's of any use to non-dutch speakers
<bartbes>
link?
<bartbes>
oh, it's a kde thing?
<urandom__>
yeah
<bartbes>
ewwww xml
<urandom__>
i used to be a kde guy before kde 4 got released, sad story
<bartbes>
I should get back to studying..
<bartbes>
there has to be an easy format just about everything supports though
<bartbes>
that "backpack" format was \r-seperated entries
<bartbes>
and then
<bartbes>
from
<bartbes>
*from\tto
<bartbes>
so it was like:
<bartbes>
from1\tto1\rfrom2\tto2
<bartbes>
which is.. extremely easy to parse
<wpwrak>
as long as you don't lose count :)
<urandom__>
well some additional information could be usefull, like how often you trained the word and so on
<bartbes>
urandom__: sure, but anything is better than nothing
<rjeffries>
kyak thanks for the driver URL I have downloaded it. need to sort out the manual instal procedure. THANKS
<urandom__>
i wonder if there is some good simple file format fo vocabulary
<bartbes>
csv would work
<rjeffries>
wpwrak guess what? the Been on my desk tips backwards it will not sit up straight. Imagine that!
<xMff>
csv can be a pita w.r.t. escaping separators
<urandom__>
bartbes yeah csv should be relative simple und good enough
<bartbes>
it's like one of the easiest to handle file formats
<urandom__>
so time to roll my own vocabulary app
<bartbes>
oh
<bartbes>
and *please* support multiple answers
<bartbes>
it sucks having to type them all
<kyak>
xiangfu: are you there?
<kyak>
xiangfu: what do you think about kicking out fbgs and ghostscript from rootfs and build them as packages? nupdf is much better than "poor man's" fbgs and ghostscript was only ported, to tell the truth, as a dependency of fbgs.
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: no idea. Maybe that is a good thing to have. BUt I am sure that I can not do that :)
<tuxbrain>
dear channel I'm proud to annouce UBB are on the go, the order has been placed and payed, soon I will post a mail on the list with the preorder conditions with more details and surelly if you bough a NN to me I will annoy you also by mail, on the preorders will be just the following options 10x 30¬  50x 80¬  100x 120¬ 500x 500¬, (taxes and shipping not included) . I will ask tomorrow morning to a more accurated delivery date but expect two we
<tuxbrain>
eks from now to be finished. and start shipping.
<Jay7>
tuxbrain: do you need any special case for NN + UBB? ;)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: your creature only two weeks far to see hit the real world
<tuxbrain>
case?
<Jay7>
yes, crocheted case :)
<tuxbrain>
heheheeheh
<Jay7>
;)
<tuxbrain>
it depents on what people will attach to that UBB, but mmm what case with leds controled by NN though UBB? :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: wheee !! 1st of march will mark the beginning of world control :)
<tuxbrain>
world control though SDIO :P
<Jay7>
world control interface :)
<wpwrak>
yeah ! ;-)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: through 8:10 bit-banging :)
<Jay7>
btw
<Jay7>
now user may control audio playback via UBB
<tuxbrain>
Jay7 yeah! and play/pause their empeethree.... ouch again! :P
<Jay7>
tuxbrain: that is idea, yes :)
<Jay7>
prev, play/pause, stop, ff
<Jay7>
we may create some kind of wired hands-free with 8:10 + 3" jack at one side and 3" female jack at other
<Jay7>
and with buttons + microphone inbetween :)
<tuxbrain>
well dudes time to some sleep,  tomorrow is some spam to do, btw I was thinking maybe I will add to the preorder if people send me a link with a post on blog, identica, tweet or facebook or even a clasic html page with a date higher than the UBB announcement , with a pic with  NN doing a funny thing I will discount 5 eur on the UBB , what do you think.... I will read anwer tomorrow morning. see you