<qi-commits> Mirko Vogt: Merge branch 'xburst' of git@projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-xburst into xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2232bd3
<qi-commits> Mirko Vogt: disable examples (they require additional symbols) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e831469
<foxtrot> hi
<foxtrot> anyone know of a source for used/stripped nanonotes?
<foxtrot> Im just trying to do MIPS assembly, nothing else
<foxtrot> so I dont need any frills
<foxtrot> and im poor :)
<foxtrot> hi again
<foxtrot> (in case anyone replied)
<mth> no replies yet
<mth> you could use qemu to simulate a MIPS machine
<foxtrot> i'd prefer to get a nanonote and operate out of my trousers tho :)
<kristianpaul> foxtrot: mips router like wrt54gl are othe starting point
<kristianpaul> but nanonote is just neat :)
<tuxbrain> foxtrot, I think there is not enough nanonotes out there to a second hand market yet, and the ones who one... well is so lovely machine than I guess it will be hard they want it to sell at lower price than they cost :P
<FrankBlues> waves
<kristianpaul> indeed
<foxtrot> nods
<foxtrot> i have a lot of SGI gear that I can do MIPS dev on the desktop/network
<foxtrot> but i just want the wow factor of being able to sit in a cafe with the nanonote and actually try to convince someone im actually doing real work :)
<tuxbrain> where are you foxtrot?
<foxtrot> virginia
<tuxbrain> then your best option is to buy it directly at sharims.cc
<foxtrot> for $99?
<tuxbrain> or get married with a nanonote owner :P
<foxtrot> i wish I could like offer a trade :)
<FrankBlues> Is there a way to keep ubuntu's network-manager applet to keep from managing the nanonote's usb0 device?
<foxtrot> what GUI setup are you using?
<FrankBlues> Netbook remix / gnome
<foxtrot> sorry i cant help
<foxtrot> but id love to see a screenshot :)
<FrankBlues> It's not very interesting, just functional.
<FrankBlues> I have to wait at a terminal for network-applet to decide it doesn't want to deal with the interface. If I manually ifconfig usb0 before the applet is done, the configuration gets reset at the end of whatever it is network-applet is doing.
<foxtrot> i just learned about the nanonote today
<foxtrot> but from what i read i didnt even realize it could runXorg
<FrankBlues> I haven't seen a fullon X running, just stuff in SDL.
<FrankBlues> (the configuration issue is my netbook talking to the nanonote)
<sid__> hi, i try to build directfb/lite, install fails. can someone take a look
<sid__> for dfbterm
<FrankBlues> waves
<jd823592> Hello, are there aims to produce a more useful laptop than ben might be? i mean its nice, i would love to have one but what about a commonly scaled netbook based on similar MIPS arch. with little bigger display and space for battery, wi-fi support or ethernet card would be great.. i thing such device could compete with todays best selling computers
<kristoffer> I believe there are already such computers, you googled for it?
<jd823592> you really mean open hardware ones?
<kristoffer> Well, maybe not fully open, but pretty much known hardware.
<jd823592> i just thought it would be nice to create a usable open hardware laptop or netbook or whatever that many of us would love to use and support, because i think you are hope of people who would like to see such device
<prpplague> jd823592: there is some discussion from a third party about making a version of the nanonote with an OMAP4 core
<prpplague> jd823592: in addition the cherrypal is now available as well
<jd823592> cherrypal?
<jd823592> what is that?
<jd823592> omap4 is ARM.. is it open?
<prpplague> jd823592: open in what way?
<jd823592> schematics, all about its design..
<jd823592> concept and also specifics of implementation
<prpplague> jd823592: well the core is not open, but everything else is
<prpplague> or more accurately "will be" when it is available
<jd823592> well but i care about the core as well
<jd823592> :)
<prpplague> jd823592: virtual no cores are open
<prpplague> jd823592: as a matter of fact i don't know of a single one
<jd823592> i want an open hardware that i can support with free software.. and be happy about the ideology :)
<prpplague> jd823592: nothing wrong with ARM to fulfill that need
<jd823592> well there still is problem.. if i wanted some manufacturer to create a duplicate of my processor he wouldnt be able.. cause he would not know what my processor really is inside
<jd823592> thats a theoretical problem
<jd823592> but ideologically it matters
<prpplague> jd823592: duplicate of your processor?
<jd823592> that was not meant for really
<jd823592> i mean
<jd823592> i want to be able to ask someone to create few more of those one of which i have in my computer... but thats not possible if i dont have the schematics
<prpplague> jd823592: ok you are confusing two different things
<jd823592> am I? which ones?
<prpplague> jd823592: the core and the reference design are two different things
<jd823592> i know
<prpplague> jd823592: reference design is open, core is not
<prpplague> jd823592: the reference design for the nanonote is open, but the processor is not
<prpplague> jd823592: another example of an open design is the beagleboard which has an omap3 , every aspect of the board is open, you even get manufacturing files
<prpplague> jd823592: but the parts such as the OMAP3 are closed parts
<jd823592> but that is not correct for me... i am able to support nanonote with compatible processor when it comes to instruction set, power supply requirements etc.. not when it comes to drawbacks, bugs etc..... this means that if i take two groups of nanonote clones.. each group created by one manufacturer each of them may manifest different problems
<prpplague> jd823592: i did not understand your statement
<prpplague> jd823592: please try to explain it again
<jd823592> if.. one day there is no one producing nanonotes for example
<jd823592> i may take the schematics and let someone create a new one
<jd823592> but the processor will be different
<prpplague> why would it be different?
<jd823592> because the implementation the new manufacturer chooses may look totally different.. only thing he has to do is to make it look the same on the outside
<jd823592> but no one never manages to do so
<jd823592> and if there was a difference in floating point calculations  than also different results may be met
<prpplague> i am sorry i do not understand, the design files are open, the parts list is open, anyone that wants to make a nanonote can do so
<prpplague> or beagleboard for that matter
<prpplague> just like any one of a thousand boards
<jd823592> ok
<prpplague> thinks jd823592 might not understand how manufacturing of open design boards works
<jd823592> never mind.. i am most probably wrong
<jd823592> ok ok
<jd823592> what i was told was
<jd823592> that the specifications that are called reference design are just guides not specific drawings of how the chip itself looks.. that the core may look completely different and it might be created with a different technology it just has to do the same
<jd823592> but i am obviously wrong
<jd823592> sry to bother you
<prpplague> jd823592: i think you might have misunderstood the role of the reference design and open designs play
<jd823592> ok
<prpplague> jd823592: anyone can by the parts that make up the nanonote, they give you the list of the parts
<prpplague> jd823592: anyone can make the board, they give you gerber files
<prpplague> jd823592: they give you all the data for you to make an exact duplication of the nanonote
<prpplague> jd823592: let me give you an example
<prpplague> jd823592: this is the beagleboard - http://beagleboard.org/hardware
<prpplague> jd823592: they provide the design materials, just like nanonote, http://beagleboard.org/hardware/design
<prpplague> jd823592: anyone can make their own beagle board, and someone has done just that - http://www.ebv.com/en/products/categories/details/product/ebvbeagle-board.html
<prpplague> jd823592: they took the exact same design files and produced an exact copy
<prpplague> jd823592: you can too if you want to spend the money
<jd823592> but why then did you say that the core is not open
<prpplague> jd823592: the core==processor
<prpplague> jd823592: the core processor is closed, you can not manufacturer the core processor yourself
<prpplague> jd823592: you can _buy_ the processor
<jd823592> but i was talking about the processor all the time.. not the board
<prpplague> jd823592: and as i said, i know of no core processors that are open
<prpplague> jd823592: and if there is one, i am sure you will have trouble finding someone to manufacturer it
<jd823592> ok
<jd823592> thanks
<jd823592> sorry
<prpplague> jd823592: manufacturing silicon such as processor takes alot of money
<jd823592> i know
<prpplague> jd823592: most companies like TI with the OMAP3 and OMAP4 make vast amounts of information about the processor public
<jd823592> other thing: is the main board supported by coreboot?
<jd823592> probably not, right?
<jd823592> that would be nice thing but coreboot might be aimed at different devices
<prpplague> jd823592: coreboot, is normally for x86 devices, not ARM.
<jd823592> i thought so
<prpplague> jd823592: ARM doesn't not require a BIOS like x86
<jd823592> ah ok my bad again
<jd823592> so if i wanted ARM/MIPS processor based netbook that is open (in the way ben nanonote is (i hope this is right)) what would you recommand me?
<jd823592> i apologize
<prpplague> ??
<jd823592> well i shouldnt have fought for my wrong ideas about how it is
<prpplague> ahh, hehe
<jd823592> i didnt understand
<larsc> i wouldn't recommend the cherrypal. it's quasi-scam
<prpplague> larsc: yea i have heard that as well, i ordered one last week, we'll see if it shows up
<jd823592> the touch book looks very nice but too expensive for me :(
<larsc> prpplague: a friend of mine ordered one. got one with only half of the promised specs and it doesn't even run linux.
<prpplague> larsc: oh thanks for the info
<prpplague> looks
<prpplague> larsc: interesting
<prpplague> larsc: we'll see if mine shows up
<prpplague> larsc: to be honest, i was more interested in the case design
<prpplague> larsc: the cherrypal was one of the open design platforms i was looking at for an omap4 project
<prpplague> larsc: thanks for the info
<prpplague> won't get his hope's up
<prpplague> larsc: to be honest i wasn't sure about the nanonote either
<tuxbrain_away> I don't recoment touchbook either, very loosy quality, very heavy and totally unbalanced, if you put the screen a little more than 90 degrees it will overturn, I have one of those, I have made a second order I quick canceled once I received the first one
<prpplague> tuxbrain_away: yea they fixed the overturn issue
<kristianpaul> 3D printing will soon come up against laws made in a world of factories and machine tools, and the battle is likely to be even more intense than that over music and films. Bill Thompson
<prpplague> hehe
<prpplague> was just discussing making some boards for 3d printing
<kristianpaul> :)ç
<kristianpaul> prpplague: yeah the goal will be achieved as soon the depositing conductive material and make paths for SMD stuff
<kristianpaul> i think
<prpplague> kristianpaul: yea
<kristianpaul> prpplague: do you have  reprap machine and a nanonote?
<prpplague> i have nanonote, but not a reprap or makebot
<kristianpaul> ok
<prpplague> there are some people using the beagleboard and my trainer board to experiment with reprap, depending on how their tests go, i might make a reprap i/o board
<prpplague> are you familiar with the beagleboard?
<kristianpaul> i just saw some pics and read some basic stuff some moths ago
<kristianpaul> i think nanonote board could be used to experimentar driving a reprap/cnc machine
<prpplague> manufactures and sells the tainer board http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBoard_Trainer
<kristianpaul> how much?
<prpplague> sells for $59.00
<prpplague> the beagleboard retails for $149.00
<kristianpaul> ouch
<prpplague> for which item?
<kristianpaul> beagle
<prpplague> ahh
<prpplague> kristianpaul: why do you feel the the $149 is excessive?
<kristianpaul> a nanonote is 99 :)
<kristianpaul> with baord + screen + case + keryboard
<kristianpaul> and still expensive for losts of countries around the world
<prpplague> yea, problem is that the nanonote doesn't provide a platform to develop on for newer technologies such as android that allow people to gain skills for work
<kristianpaul> well... android... google ... :)
<kristianpaul> you can port android to a nano if you want
<prpplague> indeed, problem is that many of the new cell phones will have the same processor as the beagle, hence it provides a good test bed
<prpplague> but i understand your statement
<kristianpaul> thanks
<prpplague> hence the reason we are looking to put OMAP4 in the nanonote
<prpplague> to provide a good platform for devrs to use for practical development on omap4
<prpplague> omap4 based nanonote will be more expensive though
<kristianpaul> yes and remeber ingenic allow us make something that TI will no
<prpplague> kristianpaul: i am sorry i did not understand your statement
<kristianpaul> prpplague: i had read the ingenic will give best support for this chips
<larsc> when it comes to specs and datasheet ti is actually more open then ingenic
<kristianpaul> oh
<prpplague> kristianpaul: ahh right, well, support isn't an issue, hehe
<kristianpaul> price !
<prpplague> is guessing no one has done a /whois on prpplague
<larsc> should we? ;)
<kristianpaul> :)
<kristianpaul> ahh you ! the man in facebook ;)
<prpplague> the main in facebook?
<prpplague> the man in facebook?
<kristianpaul> just kidding
<prpplague> ahh
<prpplague> has no sense of humor
<prpplague> :)
<kristianpaul> wonder how many time our names are in facebook
<kristianpaul> prpplague: ok sorry
<prpplague> kristianpaul: hehe
<prpplague> kristianpaul: a nanonote style omap4 platform would probably be around $199
<kristianpaul> as larsc said seems true TI provides lots of data
<kristianpaul> ahh you
<kristianpaul> yeh i remenber
<prpplague> kristianpaul: we are just researching it right now
<kristianpaul> but
<prpplague> i've already gutted one of my nanonotes and have the lcd and keyboard working with omap4
<kristianpaul> hmm
<kristianpaul> what about avr32 ??
<prpplague> TI doesn't sell avr32
<kristianpaul> yes i know
<kristianpaul> i wasd thinking in avr and its great support to free sofware
<prpplague> hehe, *cough* well it would be a hard sell to try and use avr32, hehe
<kristianpaul> ;)
<kristianpaul> that omap have built-in gps/wifi stuff?
<prpplague> here are the specs we are looking at, omap4, HDMI w/audio, WL1271 wifi+bt, OTG slave/host port
<kristianpaul> ohh
<prpplague> the next get WL1283 chipset has gps/wifi/bt/FM rx.tx
<kristianpaul> if just TI drop the price a bit ;)
<kristianpaul> ohhh 1 Ghz + Dual core?
<kristianpaul> what about power comsuption?
<prpplague> i'm doing some tests now using the nanonote lcd and feature set using the 850mA battery for the nanonote
<prpplague> we'll see
<mirko_> anyone awake working on the pictureframe / openmotion?
<mirko_> *openmotic
<kristianpaul> Yi thanks !
<DocScrutinizer> hmm, seems you guys having fun with nanonote
<kristianpaul> yeah !
<kristianpaul> Yi !! :)
<foxtrot> is there a mouse on the nanonote