08:42 <sylvanc> i love the description of the idris bash backend:

08:42 <sylvanc> "Barely functional. Super slow."

08:44 <doublec> haha, indeed

10:34 <SeanTAllen> giddyup btw, is also a great name doublec. on the basis of names alone, this should happen

10:40 <darach> A giddyup would be useful for those that don't want to build their own cross compiling toolchain, which will be the case for most folk ... unless you're doing a port!

10:44 <SeanTAllen> hey now darach, lets not throw ponyup out as a name just yet.

10:47 <SeanTAllen> hey darach, do you know much about how C-FFI and memory work? is it the responsibility of the C code to free memory its given or does that responsibility still lie with the pony gc?

11:02 <darach> Pony can't know about the memory management rules of native code, so it's the responsibility of the human using FFI to understand the underlying memory management rules. If I allocate natively, I deallocate natively. if I allocate in pony, I deallocate ( eg: force an actor into a quiescent state so it gc's ) in pony... I've avoided any gotchas by keeping

11:02 <darach> things that simple.

11:07 <SeanTAllen> thanks darach, that is what i thought. wanted to make sure. i'm back to hunting "my gc bug".

11:09 <darach> Here's a pony iterator wrapping a native iterator - https://github.com/darach/hdr_histogram_pony/blob/master/packages/hdr/iterators.pony#L70-L112

11:10 <darach> Not sure this is good style though. I could probably have avoided writing a small shim in C, for example, but it seemed like the simplest thing so I went with it...

11:13 <darach> At some point I'll do a pure pony implementation of HDR Histogram, likely more similar to Coda Hale's Go implementation rather than the C implementation used above ( which tracks the java original more closely ). Would be interesting to compare native pony impl to the C wrapped impl. A bit meta though measuring measurement tools :P

13:31 <TwoNotes> I was looking at net/http and it is not set up for streaming at all. It treats a 'response' as a single containable lump of data.

13:32 <TwoNotes> There is client code that can *receive* chunked transfer mode, but no server code to send it.

13:38 <sylvanc> net/http needs a complete rewrite

13:41 <TwoNotes> I was looking at how to add streaming to the existing structure, but it might be simpler to create a parallel structure that JUST does streaming HTTP transfers.

13:41 <TwoNotes> By nature, they are more asynchronous

13:42 <TwoNotes> Streaming mode or something like it is also necessary to support WebSockets

13:43 <sylvanc> the existing structure probably isn't worth saving

13:43 <TwoNotes> WebSockets = bi-direction message streaming over a TCP connection, initiated by an HTTP transfer on the same link

13:43 <sylvanc> a nice streaming approach would be useful for everyone, i think

13:43 <sylvanc> yeah, websocket support would be great

13:44 <TwoNotes> I used WebSeocts on a previous project (in erlang) and it was really cool. Your server and a JavaScript program in the browser throw messages at each other, all async

13:44 <doublec> file uploads/downloads are another case for streaming unless you want to limit file sizes to memory

13:44 <doublec> SeanTAllen: bad realloc usage is one of the first things I look at when checking a C codebase for issues - it's so common

13:45 <TwoNotes> Having a pluggable "request handler" is a good basis for all these things built on top of HTTP, and I did see there is some of that present

13:47 <doublec> The last time I ran coverity on the pony codebase the results were pretty minor

13:49 <SeanTAllen> TwoNotes to echo sylvanc, net/http should be replaced rather than worked with. It was a proof of concept and a teaching tool.

13:53 <TwoNotes> There is a full-featured lightweight HTTP package in Erlang that could be a basis, https://github.com/ninenines/cowboy

13:53 <TwoNotes> At least, architecturally, with all concepts translated into Pony-ways

14:08 <SeanTAllen> i prefer yaws amongst the erlang http servers but to each their own. any better http server would be a good thing.

14:24 <doublec> I wonder if the akka http servers, which are actor based, are a useful inspiration

14:24 <doublec> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka-stream-and-http-experimental/0.4/scala/http-core-server.html and http://spray.io/

14:28 <doublec> that akka-stream/http url is out of date: http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/2.4.3/scala/http/introduction.html#philosophy

14:32 <TwoNotes> As long as it is full-featured, with streaming and WebSocket support...

14:34 <doublec> TwoNotes: this actor based scala one is one is http://sockoweb.org/features.html

14:36 <doublec> Probably better to design a pony one from scratch rather than port

14:45 <TwoNotes> The "routing DSL" used by some of those projects gets a bit complicated.

18:17 <TwoNotes> doublec, I do like the Akka philosophy of being a 'toolkit' rather than an 'application server'

20:58 <SirWillem> Hey Everybody! I want to introduce myself. I am a future Maryland Phd Student studying PL. I am working on a simulator at IBM for their PowerPC architecture. I had tried using Go and could not get the performance among other issues. I am very excited by Pony and have been reading it non-stop since I found it Thursday. I had also been working on the Go llvm compiler attempting to add a functional feature to Go, but the

20:58 <SirWillem> compiler still needed to be compiled by gcc and took forever. I am very excited for the LLVM and this new language.

21:01 <SeanTAllen> Welcome SirWillem, if you need any help. Let us know and we'll see what we can do. Plenty of rough edges still. In addition to IRC, the user mailing list can be good for getting answers and the dev mailing list if you are interested in working on Pony itself. https://pony.groups.io/g/user and https://pony.groups.io/g/dev respectively

21:03 <SirWillem> Thanks I'll add them both. I have studied concurrency in both an OS, realtime OS and hardware level. My first project is to develop a parallel quicksort. Has this been done yet?

21:12 <SeanTAllen> Not that I am aware of

21:20 <SirWillem> Cool, also I just noticed that you didn't have fedora in your READme, does that mean that it is not yet supported? I have llvm installed from the distro.

21:42 <SeanTAllen> it should probably work

21:43 <SeanTAllen> that would just mean that no one has reported and problem and solution with the basic linux installation instructions

23:58 <mcguire> SirWillem, if you're still here, I've got a sequential quicksort at https://github.com/tmmcguire/rust-toys/blob/master/pony/anagrams/lib2.pony