<jemc>
hm, stepping in gdb used to show the pony source code when I was in a pony function, no longer does
<jemc>
tried lldb and it shows only the assembly "source"
<jemc>
anyone know what changed?
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<sylvanc>
jemc: i get pony code listing in lldb
<sylvanc>
however, there are definitely problems with the debuginfo emitting code
<sylvanc>
particularly it seems to get confused sometimes and associate code with the wrong file
<sylvanc>
and line numbers sometimes jump around in a weird way
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<jemc>
hm, must have just been some kind of change in my own environment then
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<SeanTAllen>
seems odd that it would environment jemc. are you not getting any source at all?
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<sylvanc>
yeah, i suspect it's not environment, but rather some ponyc bug
<sylvanc>
and that it isn't hitting me because i'm setting breakpoints differently or some such minor thing
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<jemc>
or maybe an OSX vs linux thing?
<sylvanc>
ah yeah, could be
<jemc>
I think sylvanc uses OSX, SeanTAllen, do you also?
<sylvanc>
he does
<jemc>
SeanTAllen: yes, no Pony source at all in gdb and lldb - I used to get it in gdb (and wasn't using lldb at the time)
<SeanTAllen>
I also use OSX
<SeanTAllen>
I should switch to FreeBSD for core team OS diversity
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<jemc>
or Windows :D
<SeanTAllen>
me no windows
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<SeanTAllen>
watching me try to use Windows seems to amuse some people
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<Praetonus>
Is the sandbox on the website coming back anytime soon?
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<SirWillem>
What is the state of a package manager? Are you leaning towards go's built in or will it be a library?
<jemc>
SirWillem: right now I have some ideas that I haven't had a chance to put together in a formal proposal yet, but my basic hope would be to keep the package manager mostly decoupled from the compiler
<jemc>
specifically, the mechanism I'm thinking of would involve invoking the compiler's parser from the package manager to get a view of the AST of the source code, to know which packages were `use`d in the source files
<jemc>
the package manager could then use one or more (user-selected) strategies to map those `use` names to specific versions of concrete packages, making sure those exist locally on the file system, then making sure they will be found by the "real" invocation of the compiler
<jemc>
that last step (making sure they would be found) I'm thinking would look nice as something similar to Go's `vendor` directory with a mixture of some symlinks and/or real folders containing the packages
<jemc>
Pony already has a concept similar to the `vendor` directory where it looks for packages in a directory called `pony_packages`
<jemc>
I'm not necessarily enthusiastic about keeping the name `pony_packages` (I'd probably prefer something closer to `vendor`) but that basic building block is there
<jemc>
SirWillem: if you have immediate package management needs, I wrote a simple dependency manager as a stopgap measure until we have a real one: https://github.com/jemc/pony-stable
<jemc>
I've been using that on my projects, and some others have as well
<jemc>
in my opinion, the main piece missing from this that AST integration I mentioned, along with a more "official"-feeling user experience
<jemc>
the AST integration also opens up possibilities for specifying the version constraints in the `use` statement of the source code - providing additional information to the package manager's resolving strategy
<SirWillem>
Ah cool that sounds like a good plan. I am not in need of one yet, but might soon. I think that it is wise to separate the components. I think the important part is that the language comes with the tool unlike pip etc.
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<jemc>
some people like locking to specific (or ranged) versions in their source code, others prefer to keep it in a package- or bundle-level file separate from the source. I think we can have a package manager that knows how to deal with both cases nicely, since I think there are good reasons for both
<jemc>
it would also be cool to allow pluggable strategies for resolution, but obviously we want a few standard ones that work well out of the box
<SirWillem>
Yeah and has the notion of virtual environments too.
<jemc>
and yes, because the system is decoupled hopefully it is expandable and replacable by users whose use case we didn't adequately design for
<SirWillem>
True
<jemc>
some of those improvements could work their way back into the official version, as well
<SirWillem>
So filter and map are in the language, does this mean that list comprehensions are too? If not, is anyone against added them?
<TwoNotes>
List comprehensions (at least in Erlang) are more compiler sugar
<SeanTAllen>
Praetonus: no.
<SeanTAllen>
Praetonus: the sandbox was falling further and further out of date and we didn't have access to the code to update it. We really like the idea of the sandbox but need one that everyone on core can maintain.
<TwoNotes>
I really like list comprehensions though, and their extension as applied to database queries. I have used them extensively in Erlang. It makes the code much easier to read.
<SeanTAllen>
SirWillem: for questions like that, the weekly sync meeting is a good place to discuss. We usually have 30 minutes for conversation at the end. pony+dev list is also a good forum. but sync meeting is the best.
<TwoNotes>
Where is info on these sync meetings?
<SirWillem>
Okay SeanTAllen, good to know. This is my first open source community and I need to learn the protocol.
<SeanTAllen>
TwoNotes: last time the info was put out there was in an email that went out to pony+user and pony+dev on May 11th.
<SeanTAllen>
If you check out pony+dev you will find a calendar invite for it from May 11th.
<SeanTAllen>
jemc: I think you'll enjoy the two issues I found on Thursday night and just opened issues for
<jemc>
SeanTAllen: yes, certainly interesting
<jemc>
I found a few other weird TCPConnection edge cases last night as well
<jemc>
I'm convinced we need some better test coverage of TCPConnection, but I have to find a way to make those test cases less verbose so that we can maintain more of them
<jemc>
I took great strides in that direction with the TestHelper.dispose_when_done feature, but I think it's still not concise enough to motivate us to write more tests for TCP
<jemc>
or at least enough to motivate me :D
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<darach>
Groups.io seems not to support multiple image attachments
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<SeanTAllen>
what happens darach?
<darach>
Seems adding a second or third image, replaces the first, second ...