01:45 <Oksana> Joerg-Neo900 : Interesting news. On one hand, if they were tracking people that well, the authorities might have been much better at resolving hit-and-run incidents (every car these days includes its own cellular connection, doesn't it?) than they currently run.

01:45 <Oksana> than they currently are * .

01:48 <Oksana> On another hand... What kind of location data is it? Surely, people don't keep GPS switched on all the time - it would drain battery very quickly. [Before this, I only knew that supl.something.com servers not only make GPS-lock faster, but also collect GPS data, to use it for making maps more

01:50 <Oksana> accurate, for example - selling the data is possible, but I didn't think of it, especially since I don't have GPS enabled all the time - only about 1 hour out of month]

01:51 <Oksana> Of course, Android apps can be quite annoying with their "give us all permissions" approach. I have to wonder how much of oBike/Mobike/Ofo/ReddyGo revenue comes from selling GPS-location data of people who installed the app - they also get profit from having user's deposit, aka "in case bicycle ends

01:51 <Oksana> up damaged"

01:53 <Oksana> But an app can collect data only while it's running... So close app, and it will not be collecting data. Except, Android has quite not user-friendly app-switcher - apps remain open and running in background, by default, and closing them is not that easy - possible, but not user-friendly.

01:56 <Oksana> As for ISP/telco selling data that user has zero control over... Difficult.

01:59 <Oksana> Fascinating: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/izat

02:00 <Joerg-Neo900> don't know what to answer first

02:03 <Oksana> Apologies. Just reading through lots of comments in that news article.

02:06 <Oksana> IZat can probably be switched off by user http://xt.qsp.qualcomm.com/privacy/privacy_policy.html When it is switched on, Qualcomm may freely share the whole info with authorities [for emergency response or investigation or...], and share anonymised [to what extent?] info "with others for Qualcomm's

02:08 <Oksana> business purposes"

02:09 <Oksana> "4-5 OSes on Qualcomm with direct access to the Internet" is "fun", though mostly not new information

02:17 <Oksana> >> This might be the final missing piece to connect your mobile phone number to your mobile browser user agent, or even worse, your desktop browser agent. << Sounds easy. From ISP/Telco's point of view, of course...

02:19 <Oksana> https://www.locationsmart.com/try/ just redirects to https://www.locationsmart.com/ , all the time, mobile or desktop

03:16 <Joerg-Neo900> Oksana: the problem aiui is that IZat runs in TrustZone and thus you never know what it really does

03:18 <Joerg-Neo900> basically secure world in TZ is a supervisor of sorts for a "virtualized" user world running linux or android or whatever

03:20 <Joerg-Neo900> the device boots into secure world and when the bootloader or whatever runs in, and managed config of, secure world / TZ has set up a hardware timer interrupt to call a scheduler in secure world, then nothing you can do in user world to stop it from running whatever it wants. And you even can't find out except by closely monitoring discontinuities in a hardware clock

03:21 <Joerg-Neo900> like seconds sleep where you don't even realize you slept except when you watch a movie or a clock

03:25 <Joerg-Neo900> Oksana: anyway, with ~U-TDOA nobody needs your GPS to track you. They just don't do this on a mass basis yet since ... too much effort, too many data. They could if they would want to, though

03:26 <Joerg-Neo900> well, technically you can't even tell if the TLAs don't do it on a "cover all" basis, since to U-TDOA you don't need *any* control over any transmitter you want to localize

03:27 <Joerg-Neo900> but then TLAs have no business in resolving hit-and-run incidents

03:32 <Joerg-Neo900> a while ago I calculated that any Three Letter Agency interested in such thing would need a maybe 100 Location Measurement Units for covering Germany, and based on SDR they could simply record all RF spectrum and would need a a maybe 1 million worth of equipment in SDR and HDDs per LMU to record the last 3 days and do "post mortem" analysus on the data to find out any arbitrary transmitter's position during that 3 days

03:32 <Joerg-Neo900> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA

03:35 <Joerg-Neo900> the problem starts when they would want to store that data for the last 180 days, and process it in reasonable time when a particular request arises

03:36 <Joerg-Neo900> they'd need at very least gigabit internet in every LMU

03:40 <Joerg-Neo900> the numbers above are ballpark, might be a 1000 LMU needed for Germany, and each costing 10 or 50 million. Such values change swiftly with technical progress

03:41 <Joerg-Neo900> for the NSA it's prolly still peanuts

22:05 <trench> Joerg-Neo900: are we going to have 5G before the devices is shipped? :)

22:06 <trench> Joerg-Neo900: is it going to support volte? Because operators are setting dates to turn of UMTS

22:08 <trench> Joerg-Neo900: in my country they have even turned of the FM radio network