07:07 <neozaru> <<

07:07 <neozaru> While there had been reports in the past about similar incidents, PayPal have not received much bad press in the last years, and we felt that these issues must have been resolved since. >>

07:07 <neozaru> Seriously

13:24 <wpwrak> neozaru in absentia: there is that saying that you don't have to be afraid of things that are in the news, because this means that they're rare and thus unlikely to affect you. the time to be afraid is when they disappear from the news.

13:24 <wpwrak> unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be exaggerated this time. sometimes, it's hard to tell if you're paranoid enough :(

16:43 <pigeons> i appreciate the VERY detailed email about the paypal issue. (google/gmail marked it as spam)

18:28 <wpwrak> pigeons: thanks ! the spam marking isn't nice, though :( is there any indication as to why it considered the newsletter spam ?

18:35 <pigeons> no i don't know why, i marked it not spam and also the web nterface asked if i would send it to the spam team for review which i did

18:36 <pigeons> maybe X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1001:send.php gets it some bayes points

18:36 <pigeons> also maybe all the words "paypal" heh

20:16 <wpwrak> pigeons: (sent to spam team) great, thanks ! if they can somehow whitelist us, that would be perfect.

20:29 <DocScrutinizer51> odds are they consider each mail sent to them as spam and BLACKlist it

20:30 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer51: google ? naw :)

20:32 <edwin> http://multirbl.valli.org/lookup/neo900.org.html looks like you're on rfc-clueless.org, but not on any major blacklist

20:34 <DocScrutinizer51> wtf clueless: :-P

20:36 <edwin> looks like your postmaster address doesn't work: "Domain shares an MX record (mx2.ovh.net) for a mail exchange which will not accept mail to the administrator."

20:36 <edwin> not your fault

20:38 <edwin> meta ADVANCE_FEE_5_NEW (__AFRICAN_STATE + __ATM_CARD + __BACK_SCRATCH + __CONTACT_YOU + __COURIER + __DEAD_PARENT + __DEAL + DEAR_BENEFICIARY + DEAR_WINNER + __DECEASED + __DESTROY_ME + __DIPLOMATIC + __DORMANT_ACCT + __EARLY_DEMISE + __EX_CUSTOMER + __FOUND_YOU + __FRAUD_AON + __FRAUD_AUM + __FRAUD_AXF + __FRAUD_BEP + __FRAUD_BGP + __FRAUD_CKF + __FRAUD_DPR + __FRAUD_FVU + __FRAUD_GBW + __FRAUD_IPK + __FRAUD_IRT + __FRAUD_JNB + __FRAUD_JYG + __FRAU

20:38 <edwin> also seems to hit that rule in spamassassin

20:41 <DocScrutinizer51> do we have the word 'dear' in our newsletter? that would be a major ooopsie

20:42 <DocScrutinizer51> and what *fraud*. the HECK?!??!

20:45 <edwin> you have dear twice

20:46 <edwin> sorry my knowledge of spamassassin stops with grepping for the rulename that triggers, there is probably a way to find out which of those subrules triggered (apparently more than 4), but I don't know how

20:47 <edwin> its probably just that you talk a lot about paypal and money transfers and spamassassin got good at detecting that

20:47 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway am I still online? could somebody please sent a mail to tim riker (/msg nickserv info infobot) to please restart the damn bot?

20:47 <edwin> it could look at your message length and realize that no sane spammer would write a mail that long

20:47 <edwin> their target would get bored halfway through :))

20:48 <DocScrutinizer51> hehe

20:51 <edwin> https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/AvoidingFpsForSenders

20:52 <edwin> tbh I wouldn't worry too much about dealing with that, you can't know what spam filters gmail uses

21:43 <Arch-TK> gmail uses magic

21:43 <Arch-TK> I've always used http://www.mail-tester.com/ for testing my email

21:43 <Arch-TK> I got it to 10/10 but M$ office 360 email exchange thing decides it's spam.

21:44 <Arch-TK> I imagine they just have a whitelist of common trusted domains or something equally idiotic.

21:44 <Arch-TK> the people I was sending it to even had trouble getting it to allow the emails through.

21:46 <edwin> ah btw all my invoices ended up in the spam folder too on gmail (I'm using my own mail server now)

21:47 <enyc> Arch-TK: outlook/hotmail at least defintiely seems to have its' own opaque reputation system

21:48 <enyc> Arch-TK: good at dropping emails in bin, then eventually allowing to spam folders ...

21:48 <Arch-TK> it's just silly

21:48 <Arch-TK> "for the good of our customers"

21:48 <enyc> Arch-TK: then after a while, eventually, may allow new (not reply to existing valid hotmail mail id) emails in from the IP address range

21:48 <Arch-TK> it's depressing they can't just employ a decent learning spam filter like a bayesian filter.

21:49 <Arch-TK> I've had really good results with spambayes myself

21:49 <enyc> Arch-TK: alsobeen known to ''randomly'' block from: addresses

21:49 <enyc> I wonder how much is about just amking money for hotmail

21:49 <enyc> spend lots of money to become an ''approved sender'' etc etc

22:11 <enyc> makes me wonder how crowdsourcing-specific sites (indiegogo, kickstarter, etc?) handle development projects like this

22:18 <wpwrak> enyc: i guess as long as you don't break their rules, they're fine. they tend to be pretty relaxed.

22:19 <wpwrak> enyc: however, if you go to indiegogo and allow paypal, then you may meet a less pleasant fate. at least when researching what people write about reserves, i found someone mention that paypal also froze their indiegogo money. so going to a crowdfunding platform alone doesn't mean you're safe ...

22:23 <enyc> soooooo you use sagepay or something else?

22:40 <wpwrak> it seems that CC -> KS/igogo is safe. just don't put PP in the middle. unfortunately, KS/igogo don't accept large wire transfers.

22:40 <wpwrak> so it's messy whichever way you approach it

22:48 <enyc> wpwrak: any idea if it may be a second step to ask paypal ndonatees to refund transaction and go via one of teh other CC rutes....

22:49 <enyc> wpwrak: presumably there is no difficulty in 'refunding' the transactions if it was ever required

23:05 <JesperH> Has bitcoin been considered as a payment option?

23:10 <wpwrak> JesperH: yes, for a long time already. alas, this is somehow stuck between a) not knowing which btc-to-fiat-money gateways are reliable, and b) the team lacking someone to take care of defining and implementing such a process.

23:11 <wpwrak> enyc: i'm sure this is just what paypal are hoping for ;-)

23:13 <JesperH> wpwrak: Yeah, I can see how those points can be confusing. Unfortunately I have no suggestions for how to do it

23:13 <wpwrak> enyc: if supporters initiate refunds, paypal may treat them as "disputes" between customer and merchant. then they get to slap additional penalties on neo900 ug. and there is no way to be sure that such refunds would actually be taken from the reserve.

23:14 <wpwrak> enyc: but if you look at the attachment on this post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1490039

23:15 <wpwrak> enyc: (alas, it's in german) ... we have asked paypal about the possibility of a rollback from the reserve.

23:16 <wpwrak> enyc: so if they agree to do it this way, that would be an option. but it would be foolish to attempt such rollbacks without prior assurance from paypal.

23:44 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah indeed

23:44 <DocScrutinizer51> and no matter what, it *all* gives me nausea

23:59 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm engineer with poor social skills. NOT a YOS troll that likes to engage in battles wirh entities like PP

23:59 <DocScrutinizer51> s/YO/TO/