<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, refund is possible for a certain limited period of time, some 8 weeks or 3 months or whatever
<gnutun>
ok, well i'll stay tuned here and on the forum, i'm happy to do whatever ends up being easier for you!
<DocScrutinizer05>
did you pay per CC?
<gnutun>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, that confirms my guess that only the CC are "checked". However that mark is not existing for all but 3 payments of May and June, and yet the amount PP put into reserve is waaaaay higher than those 3 payments during that timespan
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I really have no idea how they calculated that amount in reserve
<gnutun>
yeah, very weird
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, I just realized that it's basically irrelevant which transactions got frozen and which not, *as long* as I could use the frozen funds aka reserve to refund to arbitrary customers who would then send the money to bank account. however I guess PP would not allow sending the frozen funds from one payment to refund a non-frozen payment. Assuming that all funds in reserve are from frozen payments, they would need to consider a refund to
<DocScrutinizer05>
a non-frozen payment similar to 'using the money' since it's not available to 'secure' the frozen payment anymore
<DocScrutinizer05>
what a mess
<ds2>
considered filing legal action in the US with cost of laywers included in the request for restitution?
<DocScrutinizer05>
not yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
this is a german PP account
<ds2>
is there a German PP company?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, they have a bureau here
<DocScrutinizer05>
the main bureau is in Luxemburg
<ds2>
but who is the legal entity? PP US?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
no, PP Luxemburg or PP Germany
<DocScrutinizer05>
definitely no USA links in all that
<DocScrutinizer05>
also we had a hard time doing activity at court etc in USA
<DocScrutinizer05>
we would have*
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm no US-citizen, I have no clue about their court adress and neither do I know a lawyer over there
<DocScrutinizer05>
would be pretty far-fetched to try suing PP in USA
<DocScrutinizer05>
not even here it looks very promising to try and sue them
<DocScrutinizer05>
in the end it's not PP but the CC companies that introduce the risk, thanks to their policy to very easily roll back any payment, even years after payment
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, actually up to 1.5 years aiui
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway PP won't free the funds before they consider the risk as lower than they do right now. No legal measures will help with that, only giving them better info/data to re-evaluate the risk will
<ds2>
well.. it would be along the lines of violation of contracted services
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's why I asked for customers sending them a note that our customers unanimously consider this project a crowdfunding project, based on the TOS and other info we provided to our customers on our webshop site
<DocScrutinizer05>
and possibly even state that you already "received the goods you purchased" which definitely excludes any possible rollback and thus reduces risk for PP to zero for that particular transaction
<DocScrutinizer05>
the goods you purchase with the "down payment" product is a service we are doing for you: sourcing components
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually the product is even the promise that we will do, not the completion of that service
<DocScrutinizer05>
sourcing components and building prototypes
<DocScrutinizer05>
we already did that, so you could consider the down payment as payment for those already accomplished services (schematics proto_v2, complete schematics and layout and hardware for proto_v1, plus the components we already sourced)
<DocScrutinizer05>
we delivered the data from that, and we stored the sourced components at our hw-lab, according to what we said we will do. Now when our customers pay for that stuff we already delivered, we can go on with next phase of project.
<DocScrutinizer05>
the above three lines are a possible view of things that is plausible for PP when you state you already received "the goods" you pay for
<DocScrutinizer05>
the problem with systemd (or Poettering): while for decades every package in linux tried to follow the basic principles of "do one thing and do that right" and tried to always keep backward compatibility not to break too many APIs when not absolutely necessary since the API itself been flawed, Poettering tries to redefine the complete basics of linux and doesb't give a rat's shit about compatibility. Whenever he's running into problems
<DocScrutinizer05>
where his new leete stuff causes incopmpatibilities with (even basic fundamental) components of linux, he either goes "meh! you need to fix your stuff so it works with my stuff" or he simply assimilates that package and tweaks or reinvents it too so it works with systemd. Formerly concepts were discussed by many pretty savvy developers in the open before anything even got a PoC implementation, now concepts are invented and modified by
<DocScrutinizer05>
systemd cabal (a bunch of less than a dozen people) in a pub while having several beers
<Arch-TK>
DocScrutinizer05: So why is it that you can't run free software on baseband processors again?
<Arch-TK>
something to do with regulations, the firmware needing to be signed?
<DocScrutinizer05>
Arch-TK: the software/firmware - for flashing - usually needs a crypto signature for the modem to accept it (sometimes even the flashed code is checked for integrity on each boot). This is basically a requirement by FCC and other certification authorities' regulations, to give "the stamp of approval" to the GSM device
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<Arch-TK>
I see, and I'm guessing the companies producing these are required by law to keep the Priv Key for signing secret.
<DocScrutinizer05>
the cert authorities want to make sure that no evil stupid script kiddies are flashing rogue non-compliant firmware that would disrupt the service in a complete cell, or other possible threats
<DocScrutinizer05>
(secret) of course. The regulations basically say "must be impossible get altered in any way not approved by cert authority", the implementation to comply is on manuf's discretion
<DocScrutinizer05>
most decide to implement crypto signature
<DocScrutinizer05>
others might decide to blow a efuse that forbids any firmware update at all
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<DocScrutinizer05>
actually the verbatim legal implementation of that requirement is via "IMEI mandatory immutability"
<DocScrutinizer05>
afaik
<DocScrutinizer05>
since IMEI is a) stored somewhere in flash of modem, but B) is read out there by the firmware, and then transmitted OTA also by firmware, it's a consequence of the IMEI requirement that the firmware must not get altered by user
<Arch-TK>
"Master/slave, leader/follower, primary/replica, the name change does not change anything while it still have domination/submission in the basis. The core conception must be changed to really achieve the aim of this commit."
<DocScrutinizer05>
WTF?!? Führer??
<Arch-TK>
It seems that they completely missed the point.
<Arch-TK>
every person who endorsed that pull request I mean
<Arch-TK>
They don't seem to understand that with language you get this wonderful thing called context.
<Arch-TK>
And it's a lot more important than the dictionary definition of any word.
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed
<Arch-TK>
Like someone in that thread put it: "Saying a car is yellow and calling a person yellow are two very different statements."
<DocScrutinizer05>
we should send the language unisex nazis to their place
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<Arch-TK>
The annoying thing is, the minority of idiots who think this makes sense get followed by a large group of sensible people who got persuaded that this is "the right thing to do".
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, widespread phenomenon, also seen in systemd and a lot of other domains
<Arch-TK>
Their thinking seems to stop and their process goes to "How can I make myself look like a better person? Agree with this seemingly harmless pull request which seems done in good faith or think for 5 seconds about what these people are trying to do?"
<Arch-TK>
It's both less effort, and less conflict if someone picks the first option, which is what people seem to do.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway, me afk. dinnertime. c u l8r
<Necrosporus>
Why does Neo900 use Omap SoC with PowerVR which has no chance to get free drivers, while there is adreno which has working 3D drivers already?
<DocScrutinizer05>
because we want to re-use the applications that exist for maemo
<Necrosporus>
Is it possible to make a similar project like Neo900 but with modern hardware and working free software 3D?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
but you have no "ecosystem" at all then
<Necrosporus>
Replicant?
<ds2>
free software 3D?
<Necrosporus>
I mean something with free drivers
<Necrosporus>
and preferable with free fw too
<DocScrutinizer05>
ds2: Necrosporustalks about OpenGL-ES2
<Necrosporus>
With Mesa support so it could accelerate existing 3d games too
<Necrosporus>
like warzone 2100
<ds2>
yes but who has an open version of it?
<Necrosporus>
Adreno
<Necrosporus>
freedreno project
<ds2>
ah
<DocScrutinizer05>
Necrosporus: this project isn't targeted at your requirements
<Necrosporus>
Also Vivante wuth Etna_viv but it's less polished
<ds2>
how do you propose to buy a SoC with Adreno on it?
<Necrosporus>
Also Mali, but the driver is in highly unfinished state
<Necrosporus>
ds2, Qualcomm Snapdragons have Adreno
<ds2>
yes, I know. have you trying buying one and getting data for it? :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
get a Jolla, it has snapdragon
<Necrosporus>
But do they use freedreno?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it has *lots* of blobs to even boot up the system, but yes, maybe the GPU drivers are free
<Necrosporus>
That's bad
<Necrosporus>
I wonder if it's possible to make a smartphone without blobs running on main CPU at least
<DocScrutinizer05>
Necrosporus: we're actually not the right comapny for you
<Necrosporus>
But with hw specs similar to modern phones
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, that's not possible
<ds2>
the Vivante might be a more plausible path
<Necrosporus>
DocScrutinizer05, so while Snapdragons have free graphic drivers they lack free bootloader and stuff, right?
<Necrosporus>
What about Marvel?
<DocScrutinizer05>
all "modern hardware" achieves its specs by massively exploiting concepts that are not compatible with a free phone
<ds2>
<-- fresh out of troll food
<ds2>
AFK
<Necrosporus>
DocScrutinizer05, what are those concepts?
<DocScrutinizer05>
e.g. shared RAM between application OS and phone stack
<DocScrutinizer05>
even shared CPU
<DocScrutinizer05>
look, not even ISA PCs have decent (if any) free drivers for their graphics cards
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<DocScrutinizer05>
a fundamental truth of linux: bleeding edge hardware and linux driver support are mutually exclusive
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<bencoh>
nah, it just means bleeding-edge code as well :>
<bencoh>
(or just bloody code)
<Necrosporus>
Do you know by the chance if any AArch64 SoC's have at least complete kernel source available (and preferably compatible with mainline)?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, dunno
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<ds2>
yes.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know complete kernel source is available for Neo900
<Necrosporus>
What's significant difference between say Freerunner/GTA04 and some samsung phone running Replicant?
<Necrosporus>
I'm not sure what my next phone should be
<Necrosporus>
neo900 seems quite good at certain points, but hw specs / price ratio seem quite low
<Necrosporus>
Jolla has proprietary userspace
<DocScrutinizer05>
to put it simple, for freerunner/GTA04 you have full specs of the hardware, while on arbitrary $samsung platform all you get is maybe the sourcecode of the drivers, often not even that
<ds2>
wish there was a reliable source for a phone module - all band LTE, battery, enclosure and either USB or Bluetooth a tablet for UI
<Necrosporus>
or they opened it already?
<Necrosporus>
Nokia N9 was quite good overall, especially running X11, which I prefer to wayland
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're aware that you can't even reflash your Jolla phone since Jolla isn't allowed to publish the blobs needed to make the whole thing run?
<Necrosporus>
but it had proprietary userspace too
<Necrosporus>
No
<Necrosporus>
But it's enough that Jolla's user space code like UI is proprietary to dismiss it
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, then maemo is your only logical choice
<Necrosporus>
What about ubuntu phone?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, does it have x11?
<DocScrutinizer05>
does it have docs so you could actually teak the OS?
<DocScrutinizer05>
tweak*
<DocScrutinizer05>
does it have access to a giant pool of applications like a true linux system?
<Necrosporus>
I guess
<Necrosporus>
Though I do not actually need a great pull
<DocScrutinizer05>
I honestly doubt that
<Necrosporus>
it's enough if I need an IM client or clients with various protocols (not including proprietary ones), a web browser, notes, navigation...
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<Necrosporus>
I can live with quite small set of applications actually
<Necrosporus>
Also X11 is not a strict requirement
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I'm actually absolutely sure that it has no security on a hw level at all, just like any other contemporary android or whateveer-OS smartphone
<Necrosporus>
There was blackphone also
<DocScrutinizer05>
blackphone is... a joke
<DocScrutinizer05>
extremely fine secure OS on top of a flawed hardware
<Necrosporus>
Is the flaw you mention proprietary GSM firmware which can access main memory and update itself over air without user knowledge?
<Necrosporus>
or something else
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, that's it
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<DocScrutinizer05>
all those security efforts focus on attacks via malware and TCP/IP backdoors like on the classical PC, while they don't even realize the Random Access to Memory via modem shared RAM and a rogue GSM base station
<Necrosporus>
Either way, the situation with freedom is pretty bad in ARM world
<Necrosporus>
Maybe it's possible to use MIPS something?
<Necrosporus>
As far as I understand there is no single ARM SoC which could be operated completely with non-free code (including every component on soc itself)
<Necrosporus>
Am I right?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<Necrosporus>
* without
<Necrosporus>
I mean one which is fully working with free code
<DocScrutinizer05>
Neo900 is
<Necrosporus>
There's PowerVR
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, and that has FOSS 2D driver, onnly for working 3D acceleration you need the blob library TI provides
<Necrosporus>
DocScrutinizer05, as I was told earlier in ARM display and GPU are different devices, unlike x86, where GPU is necessary to make screen output at all
<ds2>
DocScrutinizer05: there is the ROM ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
SHR distro is running 100% FOSS on GTA04 (OMAP3)
<ds2>
and the trustzone stuff to shoot you in the head
<Necrosporus>
Am I right that FOSS 2D driver does not utilize powervr?
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<Necrosporus>
It uses display driver which is separate device
<DocScrutinizer05>
ds2: no friggin trustzone on Neo900, it's a GP device, not HS
<Necrosporus>
GP?
<DocScrutinizer05>
general purpose iirc
<Necrosporus>
I believe that Neo900 has its points, but I do not think that I can afford a mobile phone for 1 eurs
<DocScrutinizer05>
IOW we use the DM3730, not the OMAP3630
<Necrosporus>
* 1k
<ds2>
DocScrutinizer05: my understanding of it is all ARM devices have trustzone, it just gets disabled by the ROM
<DocScrutinizer05>
possible
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't know details of their chip masks
<ds2>
something to do with the ARM core starts out in trust mode and it is up to the implementors to exit trust mode if it is not allowed
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, it starts with DM3730 not having (or accepting new) any signature key you would exclusively hold the private key for
<ds2>
that's a ROM thing
<DocScrutinizer05>
then a number of hw accelerators are not available on GP devices afaik, e.g. AES, RPG(?), similar stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
GRNG*
<DocScrutinizer05>
grr RNG*
<Necrosporus>
Anyway, do I understand it correctly that there is no SoC which has free bootloader, complete kernel source and working free sw 3D accelerator in same time?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't know
<DocScrutinizer05>
please read what I linked a few lines up
<ds2>
FPGA w/an ARM9
<ds2>
:D
<Necrosporus>
By the way, aren't ARM cores closed source?
<Necrosporus>
I mean their VHDL/Verilog
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<Necrosporus>
Though there are some processors like OpenSPARC
<DocScrutinizer05>
and the schematics of the power supplies of the chipmask exposer are also closed