<Oksana>
Hmm... Will look up what vnc servers are here. Problem is, I would need to install VNC client on Windows, also - local Linux computers are out, for one or two more days. Update, upgrade, or something.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, "machine"? Dunno. But what else would >>Headset universal asynchronous receiver/transmitter (UART) receive data/switch detection<< mean, than receiving ECI from headset?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ECI is extremely silly simple serial data (UART) over single-wire-bidir
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno how much "machine" it needs to implement that
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I guess since ECI is (C) Nokia, TI was reluctant to call that UART "ECI"
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<DocScrutinizer05>
in N900 it seems I can't find the ECI/UART1 pin (B1) connected to anything
<DocScrutinizer05>
then, N900 has TWL4030, not TPS65950
<DocScrutinizer05>
what Nokia calls ECI in N900 (ECI_AD) is connected to TWL4030 ADCIN2
<DocScrutinizer05>
I could think of TI not implementing ECI/UART in (early) TWL4030, only later chip versions (TPS65950) implemented it, for other Nokia phones than N900
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway ECI is serial 8N1 prolly, with low startbit. Low is identical to headset holdbutton pressed so mic line short to GND. For TX (from device's POV) a low level on UART1.TXD shall shut down or disconnect MICBIAS from MIC line
<DocScrutinizer05>
for UART1.RXD we need to exploit one of the comparators' output signals
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think the voltage threshold for that comparator doesn't need to be exactly to the point of the ECI specs
<DocScrutinizer05>
it just needs to be low enough so even "greedy" headset microphones with strong output signal don't trip it
<DocScrutinizer05>
as it seems the headset-UART of TPS65950 isn't used at all in N900, we're free to make some good use of it in Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
while N900 would need to resort to "poor man's scope" exploit of ADCIN2
<DocScrutinizer05>
driven by CPU software, with "trigger" by the headset-hold-button comparator
<DocScrutinizer05>
and do TX by bitbanging the video-mux for example
<ds2>
Hmmmm
<ds2>
what exactly is your level of analog EE expertise again?
<DocScrutinizer05>
native ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
when I started with EE, there been no such thing like digital (at least for mere mortals)
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually many transistors were made of Germanium back when ;-D
<ds2>
some of these later things discussed sounds like stuff requiring the top top top analog magic gurus to get to work
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, that's pretty basic stuff
<ds2>
squeezing video, audio, and uart out of 1 jack w/o having them interact.....
<DocScrutinizer05>
they are mutually exclusive
<ds2>
you using relays to select?
<DocScrutinizer05>
err, if you want to call them relays then yes
<P-G>
I hope they aren't surprised that people don't like them.
<DocScrutinizer05>
https://lizardstresser.s u/proof.html >>You have to turn on javascript and cookies support in browser to visit this site.<< SUUUUURE!
<DocScrutinizer05>
I just wonder if zhat would've happened same way when Lenovo still was HP
<P-G>
Lol, I tried that too. Turned right back around when I saw that.
<P-G>
I'm pretty sure they were using Superfish back then too, it just wasn't that bad.
<DocScrutinizer05>
quite possible
<P-G>
Or people didn't know it was. Lenovo was a prime target for all sorts of firmware hacks.
<DocScrutinizer05>
google's "don't be evil" is a hoax. and you can s/google/§RANDOM/ and it won't change
<P-G>
That's actually pretty funny.
<P-G>
I've known they would eventually become evil since like 2006, I just never expected them to become incompotent.
<P-G>
What's all this bad UX, bad PR, and cutting services for no reason?
<DocScrutinizer05>
a company size of google probably has no option _not_ to do evil. Somebody of their legion of staff will
<DocScrutinizer05>
for Lenovo it's mere incompetence
<DocScrutinizer05>
don't get me started at Android at large
<P-G>
Google is spread too thin for real market control but they're advancing technology and creating new markets all over the place. That's what spart people do when they're bored and have lots of resources.
<P-G>
I keep sending ideas to Google and asking them to mail me towels in return. Nothing yet. ;(
<P-G>
They give prize money to people who find bugs in their software, why not people who find bugs in their business practice?
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D
<bencoh>
:]
<DocScrutinizer05>
even they don't have THAT MUCH
<bencoh>
dont they ?
<P-G>
Towels are cheap!
<DocScrutinizer05>
also definition of "bug in business model/practice" is pretty controversial
<bencoh>
maybe we should save that for tomorrow ? :°
<P-G>
True but it is pretty clear cut in some cases. They have actually used some of my suggestions.
<DocScrutinizer05>
on unrelated sidenote: US soldier deserts and asks for asylum in Germany
<P-G>
Well that's interesting.
<DocScrutinizer05>
pretty interesting
<Humpelstilzchen>
They will reject him anyway
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<P-G>
Probably but why'd he desert?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure they will, but they first need to evaluate a few points
<DocScrutinizer05>
he rejected to commit war crimes
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D
<bencoh>
hmm
<P-G>
>_>
<P-G>
Well, I'd let him in if that's true but kind of hard to prove.
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<wpwrak>
that must be inconvenient for gov.de :)
<P-G>
He should have gone to Russia.
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed
<bencoh>
maybe he's vodka intolerant
<DocScrutinizer05>
but I love he went to Germany
<P-G>
Yeah, I hope he gets in.
<DocScrutinizer05>
buzzword drones
<wpwrak>
russia, land of the free and peaceful. we've come far :)
<Humpelstilzchen>
USA will probably send some of their iraq-files to germany as proof. Probably as much information in it as in their NSA-files they sent
<DocScrutinizer05>
buzzword unlawful combatants
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<P-G>
I wonder if that actually works.
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: for sure not. Russia, the land that always isn't shy to blame USA for alleged or true crimes officially committed
<bencoh>
(just to commit the same in their backyard ? :)
<P-G>
I think they're just playing political games at this point. It's too weird.
* DocScrutinizer05
idly muses about the headlines when a drone killed some random dude and everybody next to him, e.g. in Munich
<P-G>
That happens a lot these days...
<bencoh>
DocScrutinizer05: uh ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/killed/would kill/
<wpwrak>
it's all propaganda. the only difference is that we're used to one kind, so we don't notice it, and not to the other, so we spot it easily
<P-G>
Famous case is when a U.S. drone fire bombed an outdoor weding in the U.S., killed pretty much everyone, and they had no idea why the drone was sent.
<P-G>
:S
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<bencoh>
P-G: is that for real ?
<P-G>
Yeah, the media didn't make a big deal out of it but it was a hot topic for a while.
<wpwrak>
statistics are probably in favour of russia lately, though. only messing with direct neighbours when they threaten to become unstable, but that's all.
<wpwrak>
P-G: link or it didn't happen :)
<P-G>
I'm looking. Found an article on a different case of a different wedding in Yemen...
<P-G>
Basically same thing.
<wpwrak>
US sounds strange. anywhere in the middle east, yes. weddings seem to be very dangerous there.
<bencoh>
"media didn't make a big deal out of it" meh
<bencoh>
"weeell, we just killed a few dozen citizens, no big deal" ?!
<wpwrak>
P-G: naw, i would be surprised if they had armed drones patrolling the US. at least not yet. airborne robocop will come some day, that's for sure.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, buzzword Kurnaz. Did several years in gitmo, for no reason
<P-G>
Not patrolling, they're dispatch.
<P-G>
I can't find it though, maybe it didn't happen.
<bencoh>
:D
<P-G>
Sama think in Yemen though, just fewer casualties and they said they thought it was a terrorist meeting.
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, incorrect spelling, should've been cw
<P-G>
Also the bullet would fip over at the peak of its height, which would alter its desent vector.
<DocScrutinizer05>
(lowercase)
<bencoh>
P-G: hmm, that depends of the angle
<bencoh>
it shouldnt flip straight-up
<P-G>
Well if it's straight up.
<P-G>
Oh, I see.
<bencoh>
s/of/on
<P-G>
But if there is wind or spin, it probably would.
<P-G>
The bullet might be imperfectly balanced too.
<DocScrutinizer05>
even when tumbling (poor cw) I bet it still reaches some 300 or 400km/h
<DocScrutinizer05>
I mean, even parachute jumpers reach up to 200km/h in free fall, and humans are less compact than lead bullets
<bencoh>
yeah
<P-G>
A very small bullet from a very small gun might not have enough force to kill you on the way down. Maybe.
<P-G>
There are some pretty small ones.
<P-G>
And of course the bullet would have to hit you in a vital area.
<P-G>
If we are not taking into account for complex physics, it would simply destroy the gun after falling back through the barrel.
<P-G>
Shrapnel from gun would probably not kill you.
<bencoh>
hmm, I hadnt read about fluid dynamics for quite some time ...
<P-G>
And I've never studied physics. :p
<P-G>
I should really do that eventually...
<DocScrutinizer05>
surprising I never heard of any far-off fatalities caused by fools firing up in the air with their Kalashnikov
<bencoh>
either we're wrong or they're too ashamed
<DocScrutinizer05>
or too ignorant to see the true cause and culprit
<bencoh>
:))
<wpwrak>
you get the occasional report of a "stray bullet". usually without clear idea where it have come from. from the air is probably rather uncommon. so it would make sense not to assume that, even if it happens every once in a while.
<P-G>
Bullets are small. Not a high chance of being hit.
<P-G>
Depending on where you live.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, THAT depends on other factors too
<bencoh>
:D
<DocScrutinizer05>
in a Maidan crowded with people I'd be wary to fire up in the air
<wpwrak>
the heavier you are, the more you'll attracts these bullets. plus, you offer a larger target, too.
<DocScrutinizer05>
odd are prolly 75% it hits somebody on its way down
<P-G>
One of a few reasons cities have more strict gun regulation than rural areas. :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
but hey, fools who regularly set _themselves_ on fire on throwing Molotow cocktails - just because the hold the bottle with its neck away from them while doing circular movement - those guys won't think about bullets and where they fly to after being fired
<bencoh>
DocScrutinizer05: haha
<wpwrak>
now about the true origin of "mad cow disease" ...
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: "regularly" sounds as if they like the effect :)
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<bencoh>
"shiiinyy"
<DocScrutinizer05>
seen an uncommented uncensored TV report from Ukraina Maidan events. Yes they did it all the time
<DocScrutinizer05>
hold bottle at bottom end and throw with circular motion, It opens up and liquid sills all over the one throwing the bottle, as well as close bystanders
<DocScrutinizer05>
spills*
<DocScrutinizer05>
instand Darwin
<DocScrutinizer05>
-d+t
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<wpwrak>
guess their "military advisers" didn't quite like them :)
<Oksana>
Modern warfare tournament... Funny. (russia, land of the free and peaceful) Even funnier. (drone fire bombed an outdoor wedding in the U.S.) That's actually sad that most people didn't notice it - even if it only happens in Yemen, it's still all the more reason to dislike drones.
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<P-G>
Well, drones are basically the same as air planes just cheaper and safer for the pilot. You can't really hate technology but it would probably be better if they had not been invented.
<P-G>
The real problem is the lack of accountability.
<P-G>
I don't even care about regulation, just the accountability. Without that, us average citizens can't even complain properly.
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<Oksana>
Like, they could have clearly visible pilot-name displayed at each drone, so that when a wedding is bombed, survivors tell the name to authorities?..
* Oksana
thinks that, given probable illiteracy of some parts of the population, they would have to announce pilot name aloud, loudly and clearly, during-after the bombing, when stealth is no longer required...
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<P-G>
Lol, that would be interesting.
<P-G>
But no, when a drone bombs a wedding there should be a lot of blame going around. Not just, "whoops".
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<P-G>
Whoever made the call should probably be fired (not the person flying it), the agency should be under investigation to ensure new policies are put in place to prevent these sorts of incidents, and U.S. forces in Yemen should probably be scaled back for a while.
<P-G>
My guess is that a few people were reprimanded and some politician had to apologize to some other politician.
<DocScrutinizer05>
nox-: yep, and ignoring all rules that actually exist for official war
<nox->
yeah
<nox->
same as they ignore all rules about not spying on $everyone :(
<nox->
and if they ignore all rules others will think they can as well :(
<P-G>
Well they can, lol. That's the problem.
<P-G>
That's what the Neo900 is for. :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, US politics are actually where "We can" is 100% implemented, maybe with a leading "Because " (we can)
<nox->
*nod*
<DocScrutinizer05>
US foreign politics that is
<DocScrutinizer05>
where drones are flying? where they can
<P-G>
Not just foreign, they record all data and reference it freely. Zero accountability as far as I know.
<P-G>
There are a few legal hoops but they get through them by working between agencies. It's a mess.
<Oksana>
Alright, isn't there a way to put electro-magnetic narrowly-directed radio-beams upwards from a place, so that any drone trying to fly over the place would be broken and go down, instead of returning?
<P-G>
People have been charged millions for shooting drones above their own property.
<bencoh>
dafuq ?
<P-G>
Air space is technically not owned by the owner of the land and the drones are federal property.
<bencoh>
hmm
<P-G>
Drone hunting is now a sport in some parts of the country.
<Oksana>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hey!! sounds like real fun
* DocScrutinizer05
ponders anti-drone drones
<wpwrak>
P-G: but a kill only counts if you make it from above ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: yes, there are microwave weapons. Alas to kill hardened machinery like drones, you'll likely need a fission bomb to power the microwave device (literally, no kidding)
<ds2>
small kinetic weapons are easier, aren't they?
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<P-G>
Now if you have a drone circling around your property shooting down any other drones that fly in, you could just make sure they can't prove it's yours.
<P-G>
The problem is then you're going to be under serious investigation because there is always a U.F.O. above your house.
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<Oksana>
I wonder, what kind of weapon can take down the drone? If bullets were enough, those rifles at weddings would have already been put to good use - shooting the drone before it approaches. Or does it fly too high, out of range?..
<P-G>
Some of them fly much too high. Consumer and most local police models are within rifle range, I think. I don't really know but people do shoot them.
<P-G>
If they fly fast enough, just poking a hole in a wing could be enough to destabalize it. Shooting the camera or thruster/rotor is probably the way to go. You might want to make sure it's legal first though.
<Oksana>
Ok, about anti-drone drone: look up Rapere Intercept Drone. Unfortunately, they use *.io domain, so not going to support them until they move from it.
<P-G>
Indian ocean?
<Oksana>
British Indian Ocean Territory
<P-G>
What's wrong with that domain?
<Oksana>
Other than the Diego Garcia atoll, the territory has been uninhabited since the existing population was expelled in 1973
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<Oksana>
People use it for "input-output" or something, and money goes to UK, instead of original Chagossians who were living here.
<P-G>
Do domain names generate a lot of money for the countries they represent?
<P-G>
Is that like to pay for the DNS servers?
<Oksana>
.io-domains are currently priced higher than many other domains, partly due to high demand. Registering available .io-domains starts from around £30 per year.
<P-G>
But nobody really owns them, right? They're just DNS records.
<P-G>
And buyers lease them normally?
<P-G>
So they're maintained by bulk registrars?
<P-G>
Do the registrars pay for the right to lease them out? I figured ICANN just distributed them free to licensed registrars.
<kerio>
P-G: i bet that like 90% of tuvalu's GDP comes from .tv domains
<P-G>
Wow. So the registrars lease the right to the records from the country or region?
<P-G>
But the registrar hosts the records.
<P-G>
And sub-leases.
<P-G>
Sub-sub-leases.
<Oksana>
DNS records, yes. Read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io I understand the concept of lease for about 30 pounds a year, but I do not yet grasp the concept of sale for about 40k dollars - does it last for infinity?
<P-G>
I imagine the buyer was just stupid.
<P-G>
n.io is not worth 40k.
<Oksana>
:-)
<P-G>
Oh, so that's 30 to register for the end licenser.
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<P-G>
"The Internet Computer Bureau administers .io domains."
<P-G>
"The right to administer domain names is given to approved organisations by the IANA."
<P-G>
Given may or may not actually mean free. I assume it does but that doesn't seem likely.
<P-G>
Wow, that big vortex system is cool.
<P-G>
The whole building concept is cool.
<Oksana>
Anyway, I imagine that instead of 2-minutes flight to intercept one drone, and return for re-charging (Rapere) it would be more useful to have several drones patrolling the air-space all the time, and rotating for re-charging at home-base. Tangle, net, or whatever the way of catching "alien" drones is not that difficult to create.
<Oksana>
The real problem would be with "fast-as-hawk" hardware to catch the intruder. But it can be compensated by many drones surrounding the intruder.
<P-G>
I don't think this is cost effective for large properties. A homing laser or homing laser grib might be necessary.
<Oksana>
Maybe. Depends on property...
<Oksana>
What about rail-road to super-fast deliver a drone to launch place? It does not have to fly all the way across the property...
<P-G>
You could also have drones on stand-by around the perimeter of the property and use a distributed camera system or radio detection to cue intercept from the hanger along the intruder's projected flight path.
<P-G>
You don't need to keep drones in the air, just have them launch from the right place at the right time.
<P-G>
The other problem to consider is thwarding the intruder's surveilance or payload. Intercept may not be sufficient.
<Oksana>
Yes, but if the intruding drone really requires a large amount of drones to subdue them, you need a haul-around system to get all drones into one place (but if it happens, then the attacker will just call for a second drone...)
<Oksana>
Thwarting surveillance is easy. Smoke bomb, snow-water-sprinkler, and such - against a camera
<Oksana>
Thwarting explosive payload is difficult.
<P-G>
One drone should always be sufficient unless you're trying to pin a drone that is much faster than yours but that would present other logistical difficulties and is probably impractical when compared to the laser or projectile options.
<P-G>
Actually explosives are easy, you just detonate them.
<Oksana>
Faster, or stronger... Like, slow, but really strong.
<P-G>
Anything strong enough to withstand a missile is not practical to fly.
<Oksana>
Detonate?.. I would rather haul the intruding drone high-high into air before detonating its payload. Depends on strength of explosives
<DocScrutinizer05>
missile with nylon string payload
<wpwrak>
Oksana: easy: just be elsewhere :) ties in with thwarting surveillance
<P-G>
So you want to catch the intruder in a net?
<Oksana>
Yes
<P-G>
Drone phishing?
<P-G>
The sky is your ocean.
<DocScrutinizer05>
net is not manageable
<Oksana>
Would be curious to figure out where it came from, instead of just destroying it
<P-G>
Pick one.
<DocScrutinizer05>
nylon "flitter"
<P-G>
Why not just harpoon it?
<Oksana>
Well, maybe, I could use really strong magnet - if intruding drone is made of steel, or something
<P-G>
If.
<DocScrutinizer05>
if it was so easy to hit a moving target...
<wpwrak>
douse it with superglue ?
<P-G>
Wind force.
<DocScrutinizer05>
nylon strings
<Oksana>
flitter -> Wikipedia? -> My Little Pony
<P-G>
Harpoon gun is the only way.
<DocScrutinizer05>
wouldn't even need carbon fibre like the ones that took out the power plants in Iraq(?)
<Oksana>
Magnet is self-directing. No need to hit precisely - it just goes where steel is.
<Oksana>
Nylon strings are good against rotating parts, yes. Tangling in them...
<P-G>
You said you wanted to take it up, not down.
<DocScrutinizer05>
just a missile with a payload of thousands of 2m long thin nylon strings
<Oksana>
Just, put a lot of glue into the strings, so that the drone would be glued to the strings
<P-G>
The strings wouldn't impede it if it's rocket powered.
<Oksana>
Rocket-powered drones... Do they even exist?
<P-G>
Sure.
<DocScrutinizer05>
no drone ever been rocket powered, after V1
<P-G>
Are you sure?
<DocScrutinizer05>
even V1 was no real rocket
<P-G>
Maybe not actual nitrogen but combustion.
<DocScrutinizer05>
but it had no "moving parts"
<Oksana>
And not a separate missile - I do not want intruder to crash. Harpoon with a payload of thousands of 2m long thin nylon strings, sure
<P-G>
Well orientation is done by flaps of course but you have to assume the drone is flying straight.
<wpwrak>
P-G: harpoons are overrated. just see 67P/chury
<Oksana>
My drone should just have transparent long thin nylon strings flowing down under it. And maybe, some think nylon tubes which release glue when scratched-ruptured
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: hehe
<Oksana>
And probably, an electrical coil which becomes extra-strong magnet when an attack begins
<Oksana>
And it should not have rotors - it should be one of several balloons, hauled around by on-ground system...
<DocScrutinizer05>
stationary up-pointing vortex canons sound cheap and reliable
<DocScrutinizer05>
and very fast
<Oksana>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
plus it's highly arguable if it's illegal to move air in whatever way
<wpwrak>
Oksana: think bigger, and simpler ! use a single propulsion system. e.g., a laser. so the kinetic energy of the beam will act as propulsion. also has a convenient dual use as they'll-never-know-what-evaporated-them as defensive weapon
<Oksana>
Lasers are prone to damaging eyes, especially of aircraft pilots...
<wpwrak>
Oksana: i think your concerns are quite a few orders of magnitude below what i proposed :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
LOL
<DocScrutinizer05>
I actually forgot what's been the problem at hand
<Oksana>
Portuguese man of war balloons are going to be a funny toy-decoration... Regardless of their anti-drone defensive potential :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
afk
<Oksana>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw vortex won't work for small drones ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
those just dance it away
<Oksana>
What about power? Don't they just drop down dead, in the end?
* Oksana
thinks that small drones will not have enough "fuel" to dance back, after such unpleasant interventions - not sure, though...
* Oksana
: From (US soldier deserts and asks for asylum in Germany) to (a drone killed some random dude) to (Drone hunting is now a sport in some parts of the country.) to (anti-drone drones) to vortex cannons and lasers and rocket-powered drones...
<wpwrak>
next step: what's the minimum size for a black hole to swallow the average drone in your area ?
<wpwrak>
if you're the cautious type: what would be the minimum size to disable the drone (through radiation, as the black hole passes it, consuming what it finds in its trajectory) ?
<Oksana>
next step: how do you prevent satellites from photographing your property from above? Obvious solution: create a roof. Angry solution: put a laser and shoot them down. Go-to-court solution: tell Google-Bing to blur it in their satellite images.
<wpwrak>
that black hole may be handy there, too ...