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<elliot`>
Hello! Does anyone know if it is possible to reload a foreign library, using CFFI, and see changes without restarting the running Lisp process? In the documentation for `cffi:load-foreign-library' it says the library is reloaded if already loaded, but this does not seem to work for me.
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<devon>
elliot`: apparently CFFI::CANARY can be configured to inhibit reload
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<devon>
Would QuickLisp break if users share ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/archives -> /usr/share/...
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<elliot`>
devon: Thanks! I'll have a look.
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<charles`>
dbotton: that is very impressive and ambitious, also a little buggy.
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<contrapunctus>
Reading CL sources, I am able to appreciate (Elisp) `checkdoc`'s insistence on adding a docstring for every definition, and documenting every argument. x-P
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<contrapunctus>
What if Quicklisp made it necessary for all new CL systems to have docstrings for every definition, a la MELPA? 🤔
<beach>
It is pretty pointless to have docstrings for every definition. Definitions internal to some system are not meant to be used by clients of that system, so the people who need to know about those definitions are the same as the ones that will read the code.
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<contrapunctus>
beach: in my case, I'm using `legit`, which is missing a command I want, so I looked at the source and found `define-git-wrapper` which is used to define all the commands. But it's entirely undocumented. I guess lack of documentation hinders not just use, but contributions too.
<contrapunctus>
(I can at best guess how to use it, by hopefully understanding the intent from the source and by reading the other calls...but a guess is a lot worse than the word of god^Athe author.)
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<beach>
contrapunctus: Comments are the "documentation" meant for the other category, i.e. the ones that are also likely to read the source code. Documentation strings are for clients who are interested only in the protocol/interface.
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<jasom>
Implementing yaml in CL, I found a discrepancy between the BNF used in the reference implementation and the specification :/
<beach>
The reference implementation and the specification of yaml, I suppose, yes?
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<jasom>
yes. It looks like the two grammars are equivalent, but was very confusing because they mirror each other except for a single place
<jasom>
And I implemented according to the spec and stole the unit tests from the reference implementation
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<jasom>
roughly A -> (B - c), C -> B, B -> D vs A-> B, C-> B | c, B -> (D - c)
<beach>
I feared you were talking about Common Lisp, and couldn't figure out what "reference implementation" that would be.
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<jackdaniel>
clisp of course, it has it in the name :)
<dim>
will try again soon with the newer version, I guess I need to brew update first
<jackdaniel>
OK, let me know when you try it
<dim>
I'm letting current ecl version do its thing, it looks like the second attempt might work
<dim>
if you want a stress test for your compiler system then (ql:quickload "pgloader") is a nice one, given the amount of dependencies ;-)
<dim>
yeah compiled it on second try
<prxq>
great to see that ECL is alive again
<VincentVega>
jackdaniel: post it on the Get Excited page, there's a severe lack of animated demos. PS Always found the "boring dreams" quote to be ambiguous, grand and yet with 0 revealing info, and therefore a bit maddening (all quotes on that page are to an extent, but this one takes the prize).
<jackdaniel>
I've hand-picked them and this one is my favourite :)
<jackdaniel>
I will refresh get excited page
<jackdaniel>
I have plenty of short videos and screenshots
<VincentVega>
yeah not bad for showing the interactive side of it!
<_death>
jackdaniel: except that the slot name should be "rotation" ;)
<jackdaniel>
_death: yeah, that's true
<jackdaniel>
that's what you get for showing the c ode
<jackdaniel>
code*
* jackdaniel
goes full proprietary now ;)
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<tfb>
Are there any good examples of things which define extensions (specifically: new component types) for ASDF.
<tfb>
(component classes I mean, obviously)
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<prxq>
tfb: the asd file of matlisp has some
<tfb>
prxq: is the current version of that the one on sourceforge? (and thanks)
<prxq>
tfb: i think so. np.
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<VincentVega>
Is there a way to make a construct like `(let ((a 0)) (defmacro mc () `(+ 1 2)) (mc))` work without using a macrolet? I have a defsmth that defines a bunch of things including some macros and I want it to be a part of a test so that _everything_ gets reevaluated, including those macros when the test runs, thus keeping up with the code base.
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<heisig>
VincentVega: Sounds like you just want to call EVAL on that form. That would reevaluate local macros, too.
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<VincentVega>
heisig: Like this (let ((a 0)) (defmacro mc8 () `(+ 1 2)) (eval '(mc8)))? Hmm not exactly ideal, because I would have to wrap the test code manually, but I guess that's better than nothing huh.
<heisig>
VincentVega: My suggestion would be to eval the entire thing: (eval '(let ((a 0)) (macrolet ...))). Assuming I correctly understood what you want.
<VincentVega>
heisig: doesn't work I'm afraid : ( This still gives an error (eval '(let ((a 0)) (defmacro mc9 () `(+ 1 2)) (mc9))) mc10 is a macro, not a function
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<jackdaniel>
hint hint: (compiler-let ;)
<tfb>
VincentVega: yes, it will fail: macroexpanson has all finished by the time the macro is defined.
<VincentVega>
tfb: yes, and I am looking for a fix : D other than a macrolet
<VincentVega>
jackdaniel: is it a part of some library?
<jackdaniel>
VincentVega: (apropos 'compiler-let)
<jackdaniel>
it was part of cltl (but did not make it to ansi standard)
<jackdaniel>
some implementations ship it regardless
<VincentVega>
jackdaniel: thanks for the hint, I will check it out
<jackdaniel>
but I don't know how well it will work for your use case
<tfb>
VincentVega: can you explain why you need `a` to be locally bound in the macro? Chances are there's some solution which would work
<VincentVega>
tfb: I don't need it bound to a macro though.
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<tfb>
VincentVega: in the macro, not to a macro: what's the purpose of (let (...) (defmacro ...))? Presumably the macro is using a somewhere?
<VincentVega>
tfb: I just need to have a defmacro to take effect before the code which uses that defmacro within the same let statement (or a lambda) - the lambda is what the unit testing framework I am using has.
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<tfb>
VincentVega: then yes, you'll need eval or some moral equivalent like compile
<VincentVega>
`a` is just placeholder, I don't know why I included it, (let () (defmacro mc12 () `(+ 1 2)) (mc12))
<VincentVega>
tfb: OK
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<nij>
I have many threads wild going on. It's a great time to inspect them. .. But how? I've in-packaged to sb-thread, and (list-all-threads).. clicking on one of the objects returns this: https://bpa.st/RLYA
<nij>
the slot "control-stack-start" means "Universal-time: 4445093-09-17T00:39:12-07:00".. which is super weird. Can't I at least see when the thread started? And can't I see its content (i.e. the functions it had/will run) without #'interrupting-thread?
<phoe>
"the slot ... means ..." you got it wrong
<phoe>
it tries to parse that integer as universal time, which doesn't really make sense
<phoe>
I don't know what units that time is in but I don't think it's universal time.
<nij>
I see. Inspecting any integer leads it to interpretting it as universal time.. (i just tried on "3")..
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<phoe>
yes, it's an inspector thing
<phoe>
it doesn't know the context in which it should interpret a given integer
<nij>
i see. i was misled. Seems that I should dig into the manual of sb-thread. I will do that.
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<jmercouris>
does someone have reccomendations for interesting UIs or rare CL libraries?
<jmercouris>
recommendations*
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<nij>
for what
<nij>
fun?
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<Nilby>
garent is an interesting an rare ui still somewhat works
<beach>
jmercouris: I'm with nij. For what purpose?
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<beach>
"Garnet" you mean?
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<jmercouris>
for learning
<jmercouris>
I'm thinking about new ideas
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<beach>
jmercouris: I can tell you that the CLIM specification is what taught me about how to use CLOS.
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<jmercouris>
really? I thought you knoew clos a priori
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<Nilby>
Yes "Garnet", Sorry. Fingers not working well.
<jmercouris>
ASSUMING no usage of implementation specific code
<hhdave>
I think the Dylan equivalent (DUIM) never got as far as presentations though. As far as I know
<jackdaniel>
the oldest commits in the "original" codebase date back to '87
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<nij>
Can I do that with slime/sly?
<jmercouris>
not easily
<Nilby>
I used DUIM, so yeah it worked.
<beach>
jmercouris: I believe that was and is possible, yes. The commercial implementations have bee freed I believe.
<jmercouris>
s/bee/been?
<jackdaniel>
we've ported clim-tos to "work" on sbcl and ccl
<jackdaniel>
but it has many glitches
<beach>
Yes, been.
<jackdaniel>
either way it starts and runs basic demos
<beach>
McLIM is way better than the commercial implementations ever were at this point.
<hhdave>
it does :)
<jmercouris>
I see
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<jmercouris>
even better than the Lispworks CAPI?
<_death>
nij: you can play with it yourself! (ql:quickload "clim-listener") (clim-listener:run-listener) .. though some things are a bit broken (but it may be an opportunity to fix ;)
<beach>
Scott told us that our implementation (done by moore33) is how they meant to do it, if their Common Lisp implementation had allowed it.
<beach>
Our implementation of presentation types, I meant to say.
<jmercouris>
you know how you can view downloads on Melpa by frequency, a way to view this information for Ql?
<Nilby>
jmercouris: quicklisp-stats
<beach>
jmercouris: CAPI is not an implementation of the CLIM specification.
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<jackdaniel>
hhdave: I don't know whether he worked on Dynamic Windows too
<jmercouris>
beach: yes, is it however BETTER than CLIM?
<beach>
jmercouris: I don't know. I don't own a copy of LispWorks.
<jackdaniel>
it is more conventional
<jmercouris>
Nilby: thanks
<_death>
beach: I recently read Moore's paper on presentation types.. I think the issue was absence of CLOS/MOP
<nij>
_death: INDEED! Had it pulled down. Whatelse can I try right away?
<beach>
_death: Ah, I see. Makes sense.
<nij>
And why couldn't emacs rendor such graphical output?
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<_death>
nij: check out the clouseau inspector.. (ql:quickload "clouseau") (clouseau:inspect (find-class 'standard-object))
<_death>
though that may be too much for it right now :d
<beach>
nij: It probably could, but CLIM has the advantage of running in the same process as the Common Lisp system, so everything is much easier then, compared to having to translate everything to a sequence of bytes.
<nij>
beach: But I also noticed that CLIM doesn't work pretty well with keyboards.. is it possible to set it up like emacs?
<jackdaniel>
I'm working on that
<jackdaniel>
a few stack frames above the current think I'm hacking on
<beach>
nij: I am not sure what you are referring to, but detailed questions like that are better asked in #clim.
<jackdaniel>
I think that he means key combos
<beach>
"current think" I like that!
<jackdaniel>
they currently work with esa
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<jackdaniel>
oh, it was supposed to be a thing, but let's call it a happy coincidence
<beach>
Yes, again, I like it.
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<Nilby>
I love CLIM but I feel like it could use a big picture architectural redesign.
<jackdaniel>
:) time to take a lunch break, if some questions happen on #clim I'll be happy to answer afterwards
<_death>
well, clim does need some work on that too.. for example, you'd expect to be able to click on a text-editor-pane's text and have the cursor go there, but nope
<beach>
Nilby: Oh? The architecture mainly follows the specification. What's the problem with it?
<jackdaniel>
Nilby: you may want to be more specific
<jackdaniel>
_death: that's true
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<beach>
Nilby, _death: McCLIM is an implementation of a big and complex standard, and it is all done by volunteers, or nearly so. Feel free to help out to make this the preferred GUI library for Common Lisp applications.
<_death>
yes, it's a very ambitious project, and lots of skilled people have done great work on it so far.. thanks!
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<Nilby>
Like separate out a platform indenpent graphics library, event loop handling, separate editing substrate, consider mapping to platform ui's, etc. Presenations, and emacs style application frameworkds are great, but maybe shold be separte too.
<jackdaniel>
Nilby: these things are separate
<jackdaniel>
I mean, you've literally listed things which are sorted in independent modules
<_death>
I also looked at BB1 code the other day, which used CLIM for GUI.. it has for example a grapher module, that may be useful in mcclim
<_death>
though I didn't try it yet
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<_death>
it's not too difficult to change the look of mcclim's motif-like widgets, but right now I think you have to patch it, or create a shadow hierarchy
<beach>
That aspect is also being worked on.
<beach>
Feel free to help out.
<_death>
the thing is, I don't tend to write GUIs :).. I'm a clim newbie basically.. just played with it a little to write some simple GUIs
<beach>
That's already good.
<_death>
I found some small bugs and contributed patches
<jackdaniel>
(another stashed thing in the upstack)
<_death>
there are still issues, especially with a tiling window manager like stumpwm, but overall things work
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<_death>
jackdaniel: cool
<beach>
What I find, let's say "interesting", is how some people seem to prefer to go the FFI route, with lots of pain as a result, rather than contributing a bit to McCLIM.
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<_death>
beach: well, I also explored the FFI route before, as well as the ECL embedding route.. they all got pros/cons, but mcclim is a cool alternative anyway
<beach>
And getting better by the day.
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<Nilby>
beach: I think many people have a hard time understanding CLIM unless they've been exposed to a LM style UI background.
<beach>
I mean, the "interesting" part is that, with a bit of work on McCLIM, everybody using Common Lisp could benefit, whereas the FFI route just creates a sum of pain for everyone without making any collective progress.
<_death>
I actually looked at CLIM years ago.. but it did take a while to seep in
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<jackdaniel>
McCLIM new motto: overpromise, underdeliver
<beach>
_death: The other work in progress is a manual that presents CLIM "bottom-up", so that it looks familiar to people who are used to more primitive GUI libraries, and then discusses the advanced features as high-level tools on top of the basic stuff.
<Nilby>
beach: I basically agree, and don't like just using a non-Lisp FFI UI, but I dream that something like CLIM could integrate better with platform UIs.
<_death>
beach: some of the old material is already bottom-up.. like teaching you how to draw shapes and going from there
<beach>
_death: Maybe so. I forget the current state of things.
<jackdaniel>
beach: do you refer to my plans to make the lower abstractions more useful for (potential) competing toolkits?
<beach>
jackdaniel: Not quite.
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<beach>
Nilby: I personally want something that is totally independent of existing toolkits, so that it can be used on a future Lisp OS without any C or C++-based libraries.
<jackdaniel>
OK
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<beach>
jackdaniel: I think we have discussed just a way of structuring the manual so that it starts with the event-driven stuff, and builds upwards.
<_death>
Nilby: the way I see it right now, I think aesthetically pleasing CLIM applications are possible, using something like material design or some custom drawing.. once jackdaniel handles the flickering (and then there's the aliasing, which clx-fb "fixes", but..)
<beach>
But there are lots of interesting McCLIM-related projects to pursue, so just a few people can't accomplish everything right away.
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<Nilby>
beach: I totally agree. But I wish it could also, play well with other things.
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<beach>
Nilby: I dream that more Common Lisp programmers would think more in terms of collective benefits, given that we have very scarce resources as it is.
<Nilby>
I think the work jackdaniel and other have put into it is great, and I do belive it's possible to have aesthetically pleasing things now.
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<jackdaniel>
beach: could be, I don't remember that discussion though (however such manual structure would certainly make sense). I remember talking about providing examples for using lower abstractions for windows etc using the "silica" part of clim
<Nilby>
the inspector is very aesthetically pleasing to me :)
<beach>
jackdaniel: Yes, I think that's what we discussed.
<beach>
Clouseau is great now!
<beach>
I no longer use the SLIME inspector.
<jackdaniel>
Nilby: it was created by scymtym, he also created a more visually-pleasing mcclim theme
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<Nilby>
beach: Yes. Considering collective benefits and scarce resources seems like how we have to move forward.
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<Xach>
In my experience, volunteer programming work is not often very strategic in that regard.
<Nilby>
Xach: Yes, I find it's really hard to focus on the very important boring parts when nobody is pushing you to.
<Nilby>
and making people agree seems even harder :o
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<VincentVega>
Nilby: "I think many people have a hard time understanding CLIM" Even though I _skimmed_ through the CLIM specification and found it quite sensible and also looked through Get Excited page and what not, I still feel like I don't know what it's about. though it does seem like there's something about it. I would guess this is a communication problem.
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<VincentVega>
beach: "What I find, let's say "interesting", is how some people seem to prefer to go the FFI route, with lots of pain as a result, rather than contributing a bit to McCLIM."
<VincentVega>
beach: There would be reasons I guess : ) For example, I am currently hacking up an SDL GUI in Common Lisp as I need access to OpenGL. I couldn't make SDL work on McCLIM, though there's a backend, which apparently needs fixing. And there was a video on youtube where a McCLIM OpenGL backend worked, but was pretty slow for some reason. Uncertainty
<VincentVega>
has a way of weighing in on decisions like this.
<_death>
VincentVega: I think the CLIM spec is the wrong place to start.. it's one of the reasons it took me a while to understand, because I started with the CLIM spec, and yeah, I learned a lot about protocol design and CLOS, but to learn CLIM you need to first read a guide or a tutorial
<VincentVega>
VincentVega: which is tutorial examples, I would believe? I guessa will take a look.
<VincentVega>
_death: ^
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<_death>
VincentVega: see Documentation directory in mcclim
<_death>
there's the guided tour
<Nilby>
I feel like one of the core cool things about CLIM is: The thing on the screen is the real object, and you can edit it with the flexibility of emacs, and define how it should look with the flexibility of CLOS. But it's hard to understand immediately, unless you know those things.
<_death>
VincentVega: but there are other papers as well
<VincentVega>
Nilby: I feel like this sort of things should be articulated somewhere on the surface, even if being incomplete, if it's to be expected for the reader to really get excited, with further directions.
<VincentVega>
_death: thanks!
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<Josh_2>
Afternoon. Does anyone have a link to the old Bordeaux Threads docs?
<beach>
VincentVega: You don't have to defend yourself to me. I wasn't targeting you specifically.
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<VincentVega>
beach: You misunderstood. I gave a case in point to your curiosity.
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<beach>
VincentVega: No, I know that there are totally legitimate cases to go FFI. I am referring to the others.
<VincentVega>
beach: OK.
<beach>
So, in my opinion, we need the McCLIM documentation to be structured bottom-up. That way, the first chapter(s) will look familiar to people who are used to less sophisticated GUI libraries. And those who don't want to bother with the higher-level stuff can quit reading after those chapters and just program the way they would with traditional libraries.
<beach>
Then, the rest of the documentation would be structured as convenience layers on top of the protocols implemented by the bottom event-driven layer.
<Nilby>
beach: That sounds great. Although I'm not sure they're just convenience layers.
<beach>
What do you mean?
<Josh_2>
Whats the hyperspec entry on the feature included/not included reader macro?
<yottabyte>
I'm trying to use mito on windows, and as soon as I try mito:connect-toplevel I get an error: Unable to load foreign library (LIBMYSQLCLIENT). Error opening shared object "libmysql.dll":. I've located this file on my filesystem and I've tried clsql:push-library-path but it's still giving me the same error. I tried both windows paths (backslashes) and linux ones (forward slashes) for the string path
<beach>
Josh_2: The chapter "Syntax"
<Nilby>
I mean, some things like command tables, that are slightly alien to other UIs are somewhat core the CLIM.
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<beach>
Nilby: Sure, I mean, those features are not needed if you prefer to program like you program a more traditional and less sophisticated GUI library.
<Josh_2>
beach: thanks
<beach>
Pleasure.
<yottabyte>
at the end of the day I just want to query a mysql database, if there's a more convenient library to use, I'm all ears. I just want to operate on result sets, not going to be doing any crazy orm stuff. no inserts/deletes
<_death>
yottabyte: there was a library that talks to mysql via sockets I think.. was it qmynd?
<Nilby>
dbotton: It seems you're progressing quite quickly. Perhaps if you make the protocol clean enough and not dependent on html/js you can switch between native and web stack rendering. No doubt it's tricky though.
<nij>
what does m stand for in "mrepl"?
<Nilby>
Maryland
<_death>
multi
<Josh_2>
I prefer Maryland
<_death>
multi meanings for mrepl
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<nij>
oh i thought it's muh-repl
<nij>
so multi in the sense that many repls can connect to one sbcl instance?
<_death>
if you open slime-mrepl.el you can see the top comment :)
<Josh_2>
muh-repl xD
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<Josh_2>
that was be great
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<nij>
xD
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<Nilby>
oh shid muh-repl!!! 👾
<dbotton>
Nilby the plan is not to drop html/js, but I will have a version that drops using websockets for direct to browser control
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<_death>
o-m-r
<nij>
lol
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<nij>
Btw.. there's a difference in terms of output I get between these expressions.. one using let and one not.. WHY @@? https://bpa.st/O3SA
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<dbotton>
For guis having a interpreted layer very worth while
<dbotton>
Like osx used PDF as its
<dbotton>
Next PS
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<dbotton>
This is a progression to HTML
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<jmercouris>
dbotton: what is a PS?
<dbotton>
There are many places to improve on it for sure, protocol etc
<dbotton>
Post script
<Nilby>
dbotton: Intersting. To be fair qt now uses qtml. Maybe an integration with nyxt?
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<dbotton>
I not familiar with nyxt
<_death>
nij: special variable bindings are per thread, and *standard-output* is a special variable
<jmercouris>
dbotton: I assume you’ve seen ceramic or porcelain the electron wrapper for CL
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<dbotton>
Yes I have used it and works well with ceramic
<jmercouris>
We have a UI library we use in Nyxt too
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<nij>
_death: is special var a techinical term? How do I check a variable is special? I thought *abc* always mean a /global/ variable..?
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<dbotton>
What is the url for the source for nyxt?
<jmercouris>
It is a technical term
<jmercouris>
Nyxt.atlas.engineer
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<_death>
nij: a special variable is defined using defvar/defparameter, or special declaration.. the earmuffs are convention for naming special variables..
<dbotton>
Nyxt does its own rendering of HTML?
<jmercouris>
nij: the stars are just a convention
<jmercouris>
Not exactly
<nij>
i see
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<_death>
nij: the swank repl binds *standard-output*, and that binding is local to the repl thread
<nij>
That maybe why I always feel kinky about my understanding upon this.
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<tfb>
nij: no lexical and dynamic is not to do with local and global. You can have local dynamic bindings. CL does not have global lexicals by default but they can be emulated
<nij>
I see. M reading gigamonkey again. It's really well-written.
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<fubbiquantz>
Is nil an atom?
<Nilby>
T
<tfb>
yes
<fubbiquantz>
How about '()?
<tfb>
yes
<nij>
It's also a list, i believe.
<nij>
no...? '() stands for (quote ())
<fubbiquantz>
(I know '() and nil are the same)
<beach>
*sigh*
<nij>
it's a list, before evaluation
<nij>
Whenever beach *sigh*s I feel a breeze from the ocean.
<nij>
(a sense that i miss)
<lisp-machine>
nij: you used to live near the ocean?
<beach>
fubbiquantz: ' is a reader macro that turns '<mumble> into (quote <mumble>).
<nij>
lisp-machine: i used to live on a small island, surrounded by ocean
<beach>
fubbiquantz: So when it is read, '() turns into (quote nil).
<lisp-machine>
nij: that's pretty cool!
<fubbiquantz>
ok, that answers my question. Thanks.
<nij>
lisp-machine: xD
<beach>
fubbiquantz: Then, since NIL evaluates to itself, then when (quote nil) is evaluated, the value is nil.
<tfb>
nij: what would you expect "x=3; y=x; print y; x=4; print y;" to do in some traditional language?
<nij>
3 and 3
<tfb>
nij: well, there you go then
<nij>
so (let ((tmp abc)) .. has already evaluated tmp to be the value of abc at /that time/?
<nij>
and then the body is performed
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<tfb>
exactly: let binds variables to values
<Nilby>
or you could (with-output-to-string (s) (let ((*print-case* :downcase)) (pprint (read-from-string str) s))) But it not so hot. Like it says NIL when you might want ()
<tfb>
(let ((x y)) ...) is pretty much ((lambda (x) ...) y) (it's not actually defined that way in CL of course)
<nij>
i thought i understood my previous question. .but no
<nij>
why would these give different things?.. if as what you said, out has been bound to *standard-output* already
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<tfb>
Because (lambda () (uiop/image:print-backtrace :stream *standard-output*)) is a function. So it evaluates its body only when it is called, and since it uses *standard-output* free it gets the value of *standard-output* which is in effect at the moment it is called
<tfb>
(because *standard-output* is a dynamic variable).
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<nij>
so the second form (with let) it freezes the content of *standard-output* to OUT before the function runs!?
<nij>
Finally T_T thank you..
<tfb>
While in ((let ((out ...)) (lambda ... (... out))) out is lexical, so the value of out in the function is the value which was lexically visible when the function was defined
<nij>
It's crystal clear now. Thanks :D
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<cage_>
Hi! I do not know if the people (maybe a single person? I do not know who they are) that made available a lot of CL libraries on guix are here but if yes i would like to make a big thanks for their efforts! :)
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<nij>
cage_ guixers don't use #'ql:quickload?
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<Inline>
let over lambda
<Inline>
is a .....
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<Inline>
closure
<cage_>
nij, i can not answer because i am just trying to learng guix but seems to me that if a library is available on guix quicklisp is not necessary
<nij>
gasp
<cage_>
but of course not all the libraries tha are available from quicklist are in guix and moreover the goal of the two program is different
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<cage_>
i do not think guix is (or could be in the future) a replacement for quicklisp, but i am just starting studing guix so i can be easly wrong
<nij>
yeah make sense.. quicklisp would be redundent if guix strive
<nij>
guix aims (partly) at reproducible package management
<nij>
it makes sense..
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<cage_>
Inline, is your sentence a question?
<Inline>
no a statement
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<cage_>
Inline, OK! ;-)
<rogersm>
Does anyone has experience with accessing sqlite3 db using cl-sync?
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<cage_>
rogersm, sorry i can not help, never used this library
<cage_>
cl-sync :)
<rogersm>
thx
<cage_>
no problem
<cage_>
are you having trouble with it?
<rogersm>
no, I just want to know the responsiveness of it. sqlite3 with clsql is a blocking lib, but I don't know if performance is too impacted
<cage_>
sorry maybe i misunderstood are you referring to cl-async or cl-sync
<cage_>
because both exists :)
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<cage_>
rogersm, FWIW i used cl-sqlite for a web application using hunchentoot and the performance was very good reading and acceptable when writing
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<Nilby>
I find the performance sqlite3 with clsql very acceptable, but I haven't used it for big databases, or high throughput.
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<cage_>
i used it also in a desktop application (again, cl-sqlite) and works just fine but no concurrent access is involved in this case
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<rogersm>
thanks
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<yottabyte>
why does (length (uiop:run-program "echo hi" :output :string)) return 4? I thought it would just be 3 max, 1 more than "hi" for the carriage return ^M. really I just want to capture the output "hi"
<mfiano>
Becuase there are 4 arguments?
<yottabyte>
oh... I was trying to get the output of "echo hi" as the result
<mfiano>
Wait no
<mfiano>
That is getting the length of the first of 3 return values
<yottabyte>
so I want the return value to be "hi", how do I do that?
<yottabyte>
(length "hi") => 2, that's what I was expecting
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<Josh_2>
yottabyte: there is a newline thats why
<mfiano>
The newline is included because it :output '(:string :stripped t) it looks like
<phoe>
yottabyte: what is your OS?
<mfiano>
Sorry half finished thought there. But just pass :output '(:string :stripped t) it looks like
<phoe>
sounds like windows if you have CRLF line endings
<mfiano>
It happens on Linux too
<mfiano>
You need that special output form
<phoe>
yes, but without the CR
<yottabyte>
oh yeah, I'm on windows. it does 2 extra characters
<Josh_2>
I think that Drakma can reuse connections as well
<Josh_2>
Been banging my head against the wall wondering why my code doesn't behave as expected, turns out trivial-timeout isn't working
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<Josh_2>
Doesn't seem to me that BT wraps the timeout conditions as the condition signalled is sb-ext:timeout :(
<equwal>
Why are you using a project that was last updated in 2013? n
<Josh_2>
Well the current CL standard is from 1994
<Josh_2>
I guess timers are just implementation dependent hence the library
<recalloc>
fukamachi pulled my request. nice!
<equwal>
Well, just don't expect it to work magically with SBCL and BT if it hasn't been updated for 8 years. Maybe make a fork?
<equwal>
The standard doesn't control threads, correct.
<equwal>
That is why BT is a 'lowest common denominator' wrapper
<Josh_2>
to be fair a fork would just depend on BT, because BT controls the version, it would just mean finding the condition signalled on each implementation
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<equwal>
If you do it, I believe in you.
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<hendursaga>
For the ~r directive for format, how might I go about outputting it in another language?