<aeth>
p_l: Have you tried CLISP? Its disassemble shows byte code instructions.
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<aeth>
(defun foo (x) (1+ x)) (disassemble #'foo) ; only three instructions in CLISP, but 12 in SBCL
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<aeth>
Alternatively, you could use disassemble on a machine with a simpler to understand instruction set, rather than x86 with its Turing-complete MOV.
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<Bike>
mov is turing complete because it has indirections and indexing, which are pretty common on other processors as well.
<Bike>
also, you have to put a jump in there.
<aeth>
Okay, that was a bad example of why x86 is bad. (It's an entertaining fact, though.)
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<p_l>
x86 is funky because it has turing-complete *pagetable*
<Bike>
yeah, i got nothing for that.
<Bike>
probably not going to be apparent from a disassembly, tho.
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<aeth>
I think that's implementation-specific.
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<ebzzry>
Xach: thanks for l1sp.org
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<iqubic>
Morning Beach.
<iqubic>
I'm struggling with ERC and trying to get logging to work correctly.
<beach>
What do you want to log?
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<iqubic>
All of my irc conversations done on ERC.
<iqubic>
ERC is an emacs IRC client.
* p_l
ponders if there's somewhere one could do PhD in AI without essentially doing matrix math and stats only :/
<rme>
When I am cranky, I say that it seems like AI / machine learning nowadays is mostly a matter of solving y = mx + b.
<p_l>
rme: what is sold under machine learning is kinda exactly that... though usually people who reach for machine learning could just as well hire a competent statistician, excuse me, "Data Scientist"
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<White_Flame>
well, so far AI has been algorithms, symbolic logic, and applied statistics
<White_Flame>
what else would you expect AI to be? :-P
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<p_l>
a good meld of those :)
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<p_l>
I need to track down the papers, but I've seen some interesting work on meshing together "nice" and "scruffy" AI
<sjl>
ugh, prog1 not passing through multiple values bites me again
<White_Flame>
p_l: problem is, nobody has really melded them yet
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<p_l>
White_Flame: as I said, there is some interesting research out there, just not as "visible" as "write a classifier after a tutorial of Python and TensorFlow"
<White_Flame>
right
<White_Flame>
I've been spending a fair amount of time reading old old Lisp inference source code
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<White_Flame>
lots of interesting paths to discover that never caught on, but have their own strengths
<p_l>
there's also intelligent agents, which is something that might be of interest
<White_Flame>
that's one problem with the AI field in general; everybody focuses on their pet aspects, and won't work with anybody who believes a different aspect is most important
<p_l>
also, fun thing: a big name in "large scale server ops", kubernetes, is essentially an blackboard architecture from good old AI
<White_Flame>
and everybody believes that their one secret sauce is the magic to AI if it could only be developed far enough
<White_Flame>
huh, I never considered blackboards to be "AI" related
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<p_l>
well, given enough computronium, AIXI should converge on "general intelligence", but it's probably prudent to shoot anybody who tries
<p_l>
(I might have butchered the acronym)
<p_l>
White_Flame: well, IIRC the basic explanation (it's been 4 years, and even then we didn't really go into blackboard systems) you have "blackboard" that serves as common model of what you're working on, and various "experts" that use said data, and change it, working towards solution
<phoe_>
"For any two objects, x and y, both of which are (...) strings, (...), and which are similar, (sxhash x) and (sxhash y) yield the same mathematical value."
<pjb>
symbols are symbols, they can represent anything. This is the power of lisp.
<pjb>
function names are symbol (or lists of the form (setf foo)); variable names are symbols, macro names are symbols, special operator names are symbols, but also: tags, class names, type names, and my brother-in-law.
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<pjb>
asarch: dynamic/lexical is orthogonal to local/global (only CL provides operators to create only dynamic global, but it's trivial to implement lexical globals using deine-symbol-macro).
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<asarch>
D'oh!
<asarch>
Ok
<asarch>
I will :-(
<asarch>
I read in the "Gentle Introduction to..." book that you cannot actually divide an atom
<asarch>
makomo, actually only have a few chapters :-P
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<asarch>
"Brother-in-Law" <- lol :-D
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<asarch>
They should call that function "fision"
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<pjb>
asarch: originally, lisp only had conses, integer, floating-points and symbols.
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<pjb>
asarch: in that environment, conses were not atomic, since you could split the car and the cdr, but the other were atomic.
<pjb>
For a long time, atom = symbol, basically.
<pjb>
asarch: however, vectors and other structured objects were introduced later. They are not atomic. But they're not CONS cells, so they're still called ATOMs, because (defun atom (x) (not (consp x))).
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<asarch>
Wow!
<asarch>
Thank you pjb
<asarch>
Thank you very much :-)
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<plertrood>
Is there a way I can get a list of all classes that have been defined with a given metaclass?
<Bike>
i guess you could look through all subclasses of standard-object, but i don't recommend that
<Bike>
you could have your metaclass keep track of it, of course
<plertrood>
Yeah, thats the way I am doing it at the minute.
<Shinmera>
Generally there's no way to directly enumerate the instances of any class.
<plertrood>
The metaclass keeping track of it.
<plertrood>
I'm sure I read in AMOP that there was a way to do this.. but damned if I can find it..
<Bike>
i don't think so. that would basically mean a class tracking all of its instances
<Bike>
which would be a sort of expensive thing to do by default
<Shinmera>
You could potentially do something with make-instances-obsolete & update-instance-fore-redefined-class, but I think the latter is only called lazily, which means when an instance is accessed.