<Mangy_Dog>
libv im putting together my rev2 board and ive revisted this
<libv>
did you fix the real issue with the kernel not showing hdmi already?
<Mangy_Dog>
sort of
<Mangy_Dog>
yes and no
<Mangy_Dog>
latest arbian build which used nearly the most recent kernal fixed it
<mru>
Mangy_Dog: lose the squiggles
<mru>
the slight length mismatch probably does less harm
<libv>
so still no u-boot or kernel built specifically to match your setup
<libv>
which means no adjusted dtb or anything
<Mangy_Dog>
ive not figured out how to transplant that fix over to the older kernal yet.. but im told that a new retroorange pi with a heavily worked on kernal is on the way... and this is one of the fixes
<libv>
heh
* libv
wanders off again and will try hard to ignore this in future as well
<Mangy_Dog>
but as its a software issue and not hardware I can carry on getting my hardware done
<mru>
if you want to make a diff pair longer, have it snake about a bit _as a pair_
<Mangy_Dog>
mru the issue with the different dif pairs is the longest one (the one with the vias) is a good 5mm+ longer than the shortest one
<mru>
look at a pc motherboard or something and see how they've done it
<Mangy_Dog>
the specs say no more than 3mm difference
<mru>
the hdmi spec is clear about the allowed skew
<mru>
3mm is probably true for the max rate of 165 MHz
<mru>
but you're running at something like 27 MHz
<Mangy_Dog>
hmm
<mru>
hdmi 1.4b limits intra-pair skew to 0.15 Tbit
<mru>
inter-pair skew is max 0.20 Tcharacter
<Mangy_Dog>
libv ill look into it again when it comes to it... Im no longer too worried about decompiling dtb files now... I did that to get audio out working (kinda its not 100% fixed though)
<Mangy_Dog>
once my hardware is locked down software can really be done
<Mangy_Dog>
and sorry mru didnt mean to look like i was ignoring you there
<Mangy_Dog>
so just try to snake the lines rather than squiggle
<Mangy_Dog>
ok
<Mangy_Dog>
ill try
<Mangy_Dog>
truth be told kicads dif pair routing is..... broken
<Mangy_Dog>
doesnt play very nice
<mru>
the squiggles should be used to make the traces match within a pair
<Mangy_Dog>
ok
<Mangy_Dog>
oh and interestingly... the later kernals that do detect and read the EDID and display correctly... set my display to 75hz not 60
<Mangy_Dog>
of is it 72
<mru>
now if you care about the diff pairs being proper, you really need a 4-layer board
<mru>
you can't get the correct impedance on a 2-layer board
<Mangy_Dog>
that i cant do
<Mangy_Dog>
its about 3-4 times the cost D:
<mru>
really?
<Mangy_Dog>
nods
<Mangy_Dog>
i did a jlc moc quote setup
<Mangy_Dog>
mock
<mru>
for one-off builds, I've been getting my boards from osh park
<Mangy_Dog>
currently my board as a 2 layer is around 7 quid...
<Mangy_Dog>
8 quid sorry
<mru>
they charge 2x for 4-layer
<Mangy_Dog>
4 layer is about 32 quid
<Mangy_Dog>
before postage
<Mangy_Dog>
hmm
<Mangy_Dog>
one minute
<Mangy_Dog>
somethings wrong
<mru>
why don't you place the connector next to the side of the tfp401 where the inputs are?
<Mangy_Dog>
i have near enough
<mru>
no, you haven't
<Mangy_Dog>
the issue is then the rgb transmission
<Mangy_Dog>
its on the other end
<mru>
does the connector have to be exactly there?
<Mangy_Dog>
yeah
<mru>
why can't you put it above the chip?
<Mangy_Dog>
no
<Mangy_Dog>
its pretty much a right hangle out of the hdmi socket of the pi
<Mangy_Dog>
when its mounted
<Mangy_Dog>
right angle
<mru>
can you rotate the tfp401 90 degrees?
<libv>
hrm, hdmi does not come up on its own when u-boot has hdmi disabled :)
<Mangy_Dog>
i considdered it
<Mangy_Dog>
but again would make the rgb transmission lines far more awkward
<Mangy_Dog>
still tbh, something isnt right about my transmission traces... I mean its VERY different to what i had in rev one. im almost wondering if the footprint has had pins moved around
<libv>
and we need to have hdmi disabled for fosdem, one, because the simple-fb stuff was not updated to handle multiple crtcs/connectors, two, because we do not need u-boot to show on the projector
<JohnDoe_71Rus>
https://dropmefiles.com/FEIGR Yesterday I build the libreelec A20 and here is such a thing with hdmi
<JohnDoe_71Rus>
U-boot seems to work
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<Mangy_Dog>
this will likely seem like a really silly question, given the config nature of the dtb files. and the seemingly regular amount of times people have to go into them to edit settings. Because for what ever reason, why arent they just text files to begin with? Anyway.... Why has no one made a notepad++ like app that can decompile them and then recompile them on the fly?
<libv>
notepad++?
<Mangy_Dog>
its a supped up notepad for quick simple coding
<libv>
so you refuse to RTFW, and are instead decompiling dtb files and editing those?
<libv>
and now complain about a windows application not having support for that?
<Mangy_Dog>
wait what?
<Mangy_Dog>
are you just tryign to find a reason to be upset with me?
<Mangy_Dog>
just to have a go at me?
<libv>
in the kernel, dts files come with comments and documentation and stuff
<Mangy_Dog>
right, ive so far had to decompile the dtb file once.... to get the option to set my analog audio out instead of defaulting through hdmi...
<Mangy_Dog>
So when you talk about dtb files im half expecting to have to do a simular thing for fixing the screen config issue...
<Mangy_Dog>
but I make once mention of "wouldnt it be cool to have a notepad++ like app that can decompile dtb and recompile them on the fly" and then y ou just start mouthing off at me again
<Mangy_Dog>
i mean seriously... What the fuck?
<libv>
no-one here should waste time on that, if you are unwilling to edit boot.cmd
<libv>
and you really did not earn the right to complain about having to take extra steps to do things the awkward way with raw dtb files
<Mangy_Dog>
im not complaining
<Mangy_Dog>
i didnt
<Mangy_Dog>
just you seem to really grasping to find issues with me
<Mangy_Dog>
I tell you what... fuck off... Get off your fucking high horse and fuck off... I dont want your help
<libv>
clearly
<libv>
as that would involve editing boot.cmd
<vagrantc>
some people need to learn the hard way?
<Mangy_Dog>
NO i dont want some one talking down to me the way you do... You superiotiy driven fuckwhit... I couldnt give a shit if you designed the interface systems for all the monitors in the world... Doesnt give you the right to treat poeple like that.
<Mangy_Dog>
All you have done for the past week and a bit is complain at me... and tell me to rtfm...
<Mangy_Dog>
now i have been reading ive been googling and searching what I can. No I DONT know everything nor even that much.... So I come here for claification
<Mangy_Dog>
And you just moan at me
<Mangy_Dog>
because I dont know any better
<libv>
because you prefer to spend time talking about hdmi trace lengths, as opposed to figuring out why your hdmi did not work on the kernel you were running, you instead ran to a newer version of armbian, and went straight back to the trace lengths
<Mangy_Dog>
No
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<Mangy_Dog>
I have 2 fucking issues. Hardware and software. .. hardware is somewhat easy to fix... and doesnt rely on the software working to get locked down
<Mangy_Dog>
So i can GET the hardware out the way
<Mangy_Dog>
and deal with software whent he time comes
<Mangy_Dog>
fixing software does not mean needing to change hardware
<Mangy_Dog>
software is fluid
<Mangy_Dog>
hardware is not
<Mangy_Dog>
you claim to work in harware interface design... you should know this
<libv>
yeah, and i wrote up the drivers, config and dtbs to verify the hw
<Mangy_Dog>
well done
<Mangy_Dog>
good for you
<mru>
what? libv actually _did_ something rather than "preventing" others working on things?
<libv>
mru: if you really wish to call out a troll successfully, first make sure you are not one yourself.
<Mangy_Dog>
no libv im not a troll. im just tired of y ou being a dick towards me...
<Mangy_Dog>
im only now blowing up on it...
<libv>
Mangy_Dog: believing that you can do hw work only and ignore the platform and driver support is a recipe for wasting a lot of time.
<Mangy_Dog>
the hardware is easy... as long as i keep within the allowed limits of the specs... like this hdmi... When thats working, its software
<Mangy_Dog>
So me trying to be sure I have my transmission lines as good as I can make them... No thats not reliant on drivers
<mru>
libv: who are you calling a troll?
<Mangy_Dog>
you are just trying to grasp for reason to have a go at me
<Mangy_Dog>
about anything
<Mangy_Dog>
your nitpicking
<libv>
Mangy_Dog: you had an issue with hdmi not working on the kernel, you refused to take the few steps to get the kms debugging output, and instead moped about after all this time that hdmi is a standard, the linux people still cannot figure it out to make it work out of the box
<libv>
mru: you, as a response to your attack.
<Mangy_Dog>
my issues with getting hdmi output working in the orange pi has NOTHING to do with my hardware
<Mangy_Dog>
has NOTHING to do with locking down and finishing my hardware design
<Mangy_Dog>
so WHY pick on me about it and take the fucking piss?
<libv>
ok, well, wait and see how well this will keep on working for you. i just hope that people in here do not need to waste time on things that could've been prevented if you had just done the work of debugging things as and when they occurred
<Mangy_Dog>
what the fuck are you even on about?
<Mangy_Dog>
debugging
<Mangy_Dog>
THIS IS FUCKING HARDWARTE
<Mangy_Dog>
Jesus christ
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<Mangy_Dog>
Anyway
<Mangy_Dog>
Mru, removed squiggles... ran the traces a little to make up length... and now only 1 little hump on each - line to match the dif pairs, and everything is withint .5mm the same length
<Mangy_Dog>
tbh as for software, I actually have a more pressing issue than correcting hdmi signal in what ever kernal im going to use
<Mangy_Dog>
even though I got audio out working
<Mangy_Dog>
theres real issues with the quality
<Mangy_Dog>
hardware noise is somewhat exspected
<Mangy_Dog>
its not shielded like a modern day computer
<Mangy_Dog>
but the audio is like... Its being processed at a REALLY low db, and to get the db out at any reasonable level you really have to crank up the db level not only on the line out but also the DAC...
<Mangy_Dog>
and the quality is really fuzzy and muffled... as if its only artificially boosting the signal from its really quiet state... Rather than processing the audio in the full volume range and outputting that clean signal
<Mangy_Dog>
right now thats a bigger issue than the HDMI... because I know that in the recent kernals it works.
<Mangy_Dog>
Im also aware the retroorangepi are building a new version to include parts of the new kernal... and im told will include the new display system so it corretly reads edid
<Mangy_Dog>
so im not soo worried about that
<Mangy_Dog>
i mean, my audio isnt the best anyway... im using a very simple and cheap dclass amp and some small speakers... however ive improved things by designing a resonating chamber for one of the speakers that can fit i my design. This has improoved audio... not laptop or smart phoen levels but better... all i need now is to improove whats coming out the pi
<Mangy_Dog>
but for now the hardware is as good as I want it...
<Mangy_Dog>
A later version I might dump the orange and go with a raspberry pi compute module instead. And ill prolly take a PCM signal and decode that direct into a higher quality amp setup
<Mangy_Dog>
but for now. This is what i got
<mru>
Mangy_Dog: much nicer traces
<Mangy_Dog>
mru i kinda was worried about some kind of resonance echos with all those ripples
<Mangy_Dog>
also this is much easyer to run gnd lines between each pair
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<fALSO>
yo
<Mangy_Dog>
o/
<fALSO>
any of you guys metal heads ?
<fALSO>
Max and Iggor from Sepultura are comming to Portugal ;-D
* fALSO
is gonna buy the ticket :-D
<Mangy_Dog>
i cant say i know who they are... but cool :D how you have fun
<fALSO>
ehehe :-D
<fALSO>
no prob, im just excited
<Mangy_Dog>
:)
<libv>
fALSO: if you like 80s and 90s metal, beyond sepultura, check out steve n seagulls
<libv>
nothing for purists, but amazingly good fun live
<libv>
the first time i saw them, they actually did bring their anvil
<DuClare>
fALSO: Last night I went to bed way too late because youtube recommended me a 7-hour technical death metal mix :P