stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.22 and js-ipfs 0.35 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<ShokuninDiscord[>
Oh, you posted this to Neocities?
<ShokuninDiscord[>
Haven't met other users of it yet
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<dognosewhiskers>
So... Is it really true that in order to use IPFS, if you use a VPN and NAT (which means a *lot* of people), you have to open ports in your router?
<dognosewhiskers>
Because as we established the other day, both Dat and IPFS don't work for me. But ZeroNet did. So they must be doing *something* to get past the issues.
<dognosewhiskers>
I refuse to believe that I'm the only person who tried out IPFS/Dat and found that it wouldn't connect to anything.
<dognosewhiskers>
Probably a lot of valuable "early adopters" have been put off by this, I suspect.
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<dognosewhiskers>
Anyone alive at all?
<swednec5>
nope, i'm communicating from beyond the grave
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Are you able to use IPFS?
<swednec5>
yeah
<dognosewhiskers>
If so, did it require enabling ports in your router?
<swednec5>
didn't try without port forward
<swednec5>
i'll turn it off temporarily and see if it still works
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Wait... So you actually went to your router settings and opened up some port (I don't even know which one yet) *before* ever trying without it?
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<dognosewhiskers>
You were that convinced that it was not gonna work without it?
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<swednec5>
no
<swednec5>
no real thought went into it, i just port forwarded because that's what you usually do and docs said it might be needed
<dognosewhiskers>
"that's what you usually do" ... Hmm.
<dognosewhiskers>
I only remember doing this very long ago, and it was in the era when you still could have a webserver at home.
<dognosewhiskers>
(Which is a horrible idea for a number of reasons which I didn't understand then.)
<dognosewhiskers>
Do you mean "usually do" in the context of P2P Web networks?
<swednec5>
you usually need to port forward anything server-like when you have NAT
<dognosewhiskers>
Because I don't know why, but both the alpha SAFE network and ZeroNet seemed to not require it, whereas IPFS and Dat do.
<swednec5>
have to do it for SSH too
<dognosewhiskers>
If you want outsiders to SSH *in* to you, you mean?
<dognosewhiskers>
(I certainly never had any such wish myself...)
<swednec5>
if i want to be able to SSH into my desktop from outside the network
* dognosewhiskers
shudders at leaving his computer running while leaving the house.
<swednec5>
lol
* dognosewhiskers
shudders even more at the thought of allowing anyone, including himself, to log in to it remotely.
<swednec5>
i don't see anything wrong with it
<swednec5>
there's not really much anyone can do to break into my pc, i use ssh keys and fail2ban
<dognosewhiskers>
Did you not hear about those horrific SSH exploits in recent years?
<swednec5>
no?
<dognosewhiskers>
Everything about these computers and OSes and software we have access to makes my skin crawl.
<dognosewhiskers>
But I could get stuck in this conversation for many, many hours... whereas I'm just trying to understand the IPFS/Dat situation.
<dognosewhiskers>
Do you have any guess as to why some of these P2P web things still work without any port forwarding?
<swednec5>
well ipfs seems to still work without port forward but i'm only getting around 30 peers
<dognosewhiskers>
My naive thought is: "Can't IPFS and Dat just do what the others do?"
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: I could still load my own "IPFS sites", hosted on the same computer. Did you verify that you can load external ones which are not cached/located on your machine?
<swednec5>
well if i have any peers at all then i have at least someone outward connectivity
<swednec5>
some*
<swednec5>
actually i might not have tested properly, gonna do it again
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: It said I had connections as well, but I could only load my own local IPFS site -- no external ones. They just timed out.
<swednec5>
seems to work for me
<swednec5>
i'm actually getting a decent amount of peers too
<dognosewhiskers>
Maybe the router hasn't activated the "port closing" or something.
<dognosewhiskers>
Is your VPN connection made in the router or in OpenVPN (or whatever) on your computer?
<swednec5>
port 4001 does not seem to be open
<swednec5>
i don't use a VPN
<dognosewhiskers>
Maybe it's somehow the VPN's fault and not the port forwarding, then...
<dognosewhiskers>
But that still doesn't solve my problem and the overall problem that this can happen to any new adopter.
<swednec5>
sounds reasonable
<swednec5>
VPNs make things weird
<dognosewhiskers>
VPNs are sadly necessary, though...
<dognosewhiskers>
Not that they give almost any privacy/security, but the little they do give is necessary.
<swednec5>
i think like 99.99% of people don't even know that VPNs exist
<dognosewhiskers>
99.99% of people would never be able to understand what IPFS is even if you sat with them in a sterile, locked room for 18 straight hours... individually.
<dognosewhiskers>
:/
<swednec5>
yup
<swednec5>
i'm up to 320 peers now, without port forwarding
<dognosewhiskers>
It's maddening that these truly evil mega corporations (Google in particular) completely control everyone. They truly do.
<dognosewhiskers>
They have their tentacles every-damn-where.
<swednec5>
i think the problem is just that IPFS isn't managing to connect you to whoever has the data you want
<dognosewhiskers>
I don't understand how these P2P web projects are going to stand any chance if we don't become *MUCH* more enthusiastic and actively trying to push this everywhere, constantly.
<swednec5>
i can load ipfs.io and libp2p.io just fine, but not permaweb.io
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: "Daemon is ready" is printed on my screen in the terminal. What URL do you want me to try to open in my browser?
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<dognosewhiskers>
ipfs.io is a clearnet site...
<swednec5>
`localhost:8080/ipns/ipfs.io`
<swednec5>
ipfs can find content via DNS
<swednec5>
each subdomain can have a different IPFS or IPNS hash associated with it
<dognosewhiskers>
It says "Waiting for localhost" in the status bar.
<swednec5>
hmm
<swednec5>
how many peers?
<dognosewhiskers>
How do I check?
<swednec5>
`ipfs swarm peers | wc -l` iirc
<swednec5>
or install the ipfs-companion browser extension
<dognosewhiskers>
Can't use the last part on Windows, but "ipfs swarm peers" sounds enough?
<swednec5>
probably easiest for you to install ipfs-companion then
<dognosewhiskers>
Browser extensions cannot be required. Have you ever trid to convince a normal person (or even geek) to install browser extensions?
<swednec5>
we're troubleshooting
<dognosewhiskers>
"ipfs swarm peers" outputs tons of stuff.
<dognosewhiskers>
Yeah... I suppose.
<swednec5>
troubleshooting can require extra tools
<swednec5>
if you were on linux we wouldn't need extra tools
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<dognosewhiskers>
Installed the Firefox IPFS compansion.
<dognosewhiskers>
*companion
<dognosewhiskers>
How so? Does Linux ship with IPFS support?
<swednec5>
is it showing a number?
<dognosewhiskers>
Now, when I try the same URL as you told me earlier, it outputs this text: "ipfs resolve -r /ipns/ipfs.io: could not resolve name"
<swednec5>
no, linux just has the `wc` program which lets you easily count lines
<dognosewhiskers>
(Instead of just loading forever.)
<swednec5>
alright, that's strange because i presumed the default bootstrap peers would be enough to resolve that IPNS address
<swednec5>
err, s/IPNS/DNSLINK/
<dognosewhiskers>
I must be in Hell. Computer Hell. This is where nothing works for me, but tends to work for everyone else.
<dognosewhiskers>
I need this to be a thing. As in, literally need it.
<dognosewhiskers>
That's why I get so impatient and frustrated as well.
<swednec5>
i know how it feels
<swednec5>
"WHAT DID YOU SEE, DENVERCODER69, WHAT DID YOU SEEEE?"
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<swednec5>
dognosewhiskers: try loading this CID: QmS3jTsDKiKEJrPMJyuEJW7FZvD3VToywoeaho2FHwqL3n
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<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Sorry -- had to go wash my face to not go insane.
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Can you provide a URL?
<dognosewhiskers>
It shows "dognosewhiskers", which cannot be a coincidence.
<swednec5>
okay, so the problem is that IPFS is shite at getting us connected
<swednec5>
yeah i chose that to make sure the ipfs CID was unique
<dognosewhiskers>
Both IPFS and Dat seem like way more "serious" projects compared to the one-man cobbled-together ZeroNet, so it's surprising that the latter did work when these don't.
<swednec5>
one man with a lot of enthusiasm can do some crazy stuff
<dognosewhiskers>
But that enthusiasm seems gone because the lack of anything progressing was what made me leave that project.
<swednec5>
what i like most about IPFS is that it's very general
<swednec5>
you can use it for any data you want, not just websites
<swednec5>
you can also use gateways like ipfs.io and permaweb.io if you don't want to install IPFS on your pc
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Yes, but only for visiting them.
<dognosewhiskers>
Not for hosting them.
<dognosewhiskers>
Also, those URLs auto-redirect to localhost URLs when using the companion. Looks kind of weird/confusing.
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<swednec5>
you can turn that off
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Okay, but why does it do it?
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: And what is the overall conclusion from these experiments?
<dognosewhiskers>
I have to manually contact each IPFS site owner and add commands manually on the CLI?
<dognosewhiskers>
(Absurd concept.)
<swednec5>
no, what should happen is that your node checks the DHT to see who has the content you're looking for, and connect to those nodes
<swednec5>
not sure what's going wrong here
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<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: What's with the enormous number of lurkers?
<dognosewhiskers>
Tons of "swednec*"s alone.
<swednec5>
matrix bridge
<swednec5>
apparently IRC has a lot of weird conventions that the matrix bridge screws with
<dognosewhiskers>
What should we do?
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<swednec5>
what do you mean?
<dognosewhiskers>
To solve this?
<dognosewhiskers>
To make IPFS big?
<dognosewhiskers>
To finally get a useable P2P web?
<dognosewhiskers>
To rid us from the tentacles of Google etc.
<swednec5>
contributing to go-ipfs is probably the best way
<Acacia>
you can already make an ipfs blog with ipns and static web pages which only serve relative links, it's already usable
<Acacia>
here's a random blog: /ipns/withblue.ink
<swednec5>
IPNS definitely needs some performance improvement
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<jacopostanchi[m]>
Are peer discovery and DHT really this slow? I haven't installed IPFS yet.
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<dognosewhiskers>
Acacia: "ipns" = ?
<dognosewhiskers>
Am I missing something about this whole conversation?
<dognosewhiskers>
jacopostanchi[m]: I've had major problems with both Dat and IPFS where it claims to run but I can't connect anywhere unless I install that stupid browser add-on.
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<dognosewhiskers>
But at least that means that no port forwarding was necessary after all.
<dognosewhiskers>
Neither NAT nor VPN was the problem.
<dognosewhiskers>
But it really makes me wonder WTF it is about that browser extension which suddenly makes stuff work.
<dognosewhiskers>
(Note that I did not attempt to load ipfs:// URLs without it.)
<dognosewhiskers>
Expecting people to not only install IPFS but also a browser add-on is a nightmare within a nightmare.
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<swednec5>
the browser extension shouldn't have affected ipfs performance in any way
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Who is talking about performance? Did you forget what we were discussing?
<dognosewhiskers>
I don't even understand how anyone can bring up "performance" in the year 2019. It's the very last of all the worries...
<dognosewhiskers>
I can't remember the last time any non-DDoSed site was "slow".
<dognosewhiskers>
Maybe in the late 1990s?
<swednec5>
i'm gonna let someone else handle this..
<dognosewhiskers>
swednec5: Why?
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<swednec5>
because you're jumping to too many conclusions too fast for me to keep up with
<dognosewhiskers>
What conclusions do I jump to?
<dognosewhiskers>
I thought we were debugging IPFS.
<dognosewhiskers>
And it suddenly works with the browser extension installed.
<dognosewhiskers>
But not without it.
<dognosewhiskers>
What conclusion can I "jump" to then?
<dognosewhiskers>
Also, there clearly isn't "somebody else". You're the only one semi-active in this ghost town.
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<dognosewhiskers>
But you clearly have no interest in ever getting this thing off the ground, so fuck you all.
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<jacopostanchi[m]>
Hello friends, if I write a post on my research on Medium would I somewhat lose ownership of it and I can't post it somewhere else?
<jacopostanchi[m]>
I want to post something on decentralized naming systems
<jacopostanchi[m]>
I want it to be free for all and under a free license
<swednec5>
best is to post it on a website you yourself run
<swednec5>
which you can use IPFS for :D
<voker57>
you don't lose ownership of text if you post it to blog
<voker57>
you just give blogsite a license to distribute it
<jacopostanchi[m]>
I don't have a website, I just want to share it as widely as possible with a feature for comments under the post and with the ability to post it somewhere else whenever I want
<jacopostanchi[m]>
Nobody would seed my article if I put it on IPFS
<swednec5>
i would recommend https://writefreely.org/, it's selfhostable (if you want to do so) and federates with activitypub
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<jacopostanchi[m]>
Is serving it as a github gist a goid idea?
<swednec5>
in that case you should just use github pages
<swednec5>
which gives you a proper static website
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<jacopostanchi[m]>
But I also want to be able to have comments on my articles, I know you can have databases on github pages but I don't want to make a complex server logic just to have comments, it's a bit overkill
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<swednec5>
then i'd go with writefreely
<swednec5>
it's like medium but open source and federated
<Bombe>
jacopostanchi[m], did you even ask medium.com about the licensing terms?
<jacopostanchi[m]>
<Bombe "jacopostanchi, did you even ask "> No but I figured several IPFS enthusiasts already posted stories on Medium so I wondered of some of them could share their experience with them.