stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.18 and js-ipfs 0.34 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of Con
<postables[m]>
that would defintiely be useful
<lordcirth_>
This puts O(1) cost for users vs O(n) for spammers where n is messages per sender-receiver pair
<lordcirth_>
Now, can anyone think of a clever way to increase that ratio?
<aschmahmann[m]>
I feel like some version of this problem could be assisted by having two tiers of messages, like FB, linkedIn, etc. do. You can get spam messages from anyone once (i.e. a friend request) and then once you're connected you're pretty much home free on the spam front.
<aschmahmann[m]>
I'm not sure whether PoW is better or worse than ML for spam detection on the initial contact, but probably some combination is best (especially since your social graph could be utilized to let people through)
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<lordcirth_>
aschmahmann[m], I think you need the first-layer PoW to avoid your spam filter being overwhelmed
<lordcirth_>
In bitmessage, since it's flood-based, there's actually a minimum PoW to send, no matter what.
<lordcirth_>
If we want IPFS / related decentralized protocols to be able to handle sending legitimate messages at high speeds, then spammers will have access to the same
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<lordcirth_>
So I think the trick is an up-front cost that goes away once you trust them
<aschmahmann[m]>
lordcirth_ PoW is fine for that first layer and you can crank the difficulty up really high. However, Gmail and other email providers don't currently use PoW. Instead they use ML to determine whether mail is spam or not. Users could run those spam detection algorithms (that also take into account their social graphs) on their message receiving nodes.
<lordcirth_>
aschmahmann[m], yes, but Gmail also has the first layer filter of banning IPs, informed by the ML
<lordcirth_>
Given that we are building a decentralized network, fail2ban isn't a viable approach, I think
<lordcirth_>
If I generate new email addresses on my own mail server and send 1GB/s of small emails, Google will ban me in a split second. IPFS can't do that so easily.
<lordcirth_>
So the first layer needs to create a cost to generating a new address and/or sending me the first message from it. Then ML can handle the 100's of phishing emails, not the millions of emails
<aschmahmann[m]>
Makes sense, although if you were using some gossiping channel to propagate your messages I suspect many of the gossiping nodes would ban your IP
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<lordcirth_>
Given that we have relay nodes, overlay networks (Tor, etc) I don't think IP banning is a good solution. We need to be able to ban identities
<lordcirth_>
And NATs! We don't want to be forced to ban large NAts
<lordcirth_>
IPs should be considered cached routing information, not an identity
<TimMc>
Yeah, but guess what's easy for irritated, large companies to ban?
<lordcirth_>
I don't think IPFS was created because it was easy.
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<postables[m]>
yea i wouldn't ban IPs, since you can just `scp` your private key to another node on another ip and have the same identity
<aschmahmann[m]>
I think the assumption was that without some PoW tied to either IDs or messages spamming nodes could always just create new IDs.
<aschmahmann[m]>
I think PoW or some expensive up front cost could be a really useful filtering component, and I suspect that over time people will come up with various heuristics and algorithms that will help weed out bad actors in some form or other. This might include the PoW, forms of the messages, the ID the messages are from, the frequency/timing of the messages, the network information of the inbound messages, the social graph
<aschmahmann[m]>
proximity of the sender, ....
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<postables[m]>
well i think that's where the pow-style address generation that tezos uses would be beneficial, especially if you tie in some kind of distributed reputation system.
<postables[m]>
STORJ has a very interesting "defense" against that sort of thing preventing bad actors from continually generating new node ids. can't remember how exactly it works but its well designed
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<postables[m]>
since if you infuse reputation system of some kind, then the incentive to generate new addresses, even switching ip's, etc... would be decreased since you would start with a low reputation score.
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<aschmahmann[m]>
ya, I took a brief look again at the Storj paper. Looks like they use PoW + reputation so that it's annoying to start all over again with a new identity. The reputation mechanisms they describe seem to be pretty specific to file storage, but it's not too difficult to imagine other reputation mechanisms for different use cases
<aschmahmann[m]>
another thing Storj has that could be pretty cool within IPFS is erasure coding. I've found a couple older IPFS issues about it, but haven't heard of any ongoing work on it.
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<postables[m]>
erasure coding would be awesome to have, especially within ipfs cluster
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<uncle_ben>
Does anyone know if anyone maintains the IFPS wikipedia snapshots anymore? The yaml page is outdated and /ipns/QmdJiuMWp2FxyaerfLrtdLF6Nr1EWpL7dPAxA9oKSPYYgV doesn't seem to be resolving.
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<vroom>
The IPNS section of the IPFS docs (https://docs.ipfs.io/guides/concepts/ipns/) seems sparse and doesn't link to more detailed information like the CID section. I tried searching for a lower-level protocol specification, but came up with github issues with broken links. Could anyone point me to an IPNS doc with more meat on it?
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<pietervdvn[m]>
Hey everyone, I started using evolution last week and have a few questions. For now, the backend is Gmail via IMAP. When I've handled a mail, I like to move them from inbox into the archive of gmail, how can I do that?
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<voker57>
u wot m8
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<geoah>
pietervdvn[m]: you either have the wrong channel or we just don't know what evolution is (and how it related to ipfs) :D
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<pietervdvn[m]>
Yes, I indeed got the wrong channel. I was talking about Gnome's Mail Client, evolution. Sorry for the confusion
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<Xexe>
hi, can you eli5 -- i have added a file, got that hash. now, how can one ls all his shared things along with their filenames?
<postables[m]>
running `systemctl stop ipfs.service` will that be a graceful shutdown of the ipfs node?
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<postables[m]>
additionally, where in the code-base defines the system signals that can be used to shutdown the ipfs node? for example in the code for temporal i define system signals of SIGTERM, and SIGKILL to trigger shutdowns. does go-ipfs do something like this?