<Mercurial>
Well first of all my mind is blowing right now I just learned about IPFS days ago
<Mercurial>
I'm so excited
<Mercurial>
last time I was this excited was when I first learned coding
<Mercurial>
lol
<Mercurial>
but im just lost on the specifics of IPFS
<Mercurial>
for example, when viewing a video from an IPFS link, is the video being served from that gateway?
<Mercurial>
or from several nodes?
<r0kk3rz>
what link?
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<Mercurial>
example a /ipfs/asdasc12dc21d/video.mp4 link
<r0kk3rz>
if its a http link to a gateway, then it'll be served from a gateway
<Mercurial>
a gateway must provide the content for you right?
<Mercurial>
right so its still centralized?
<r0kk3rz>
if you're running on ipfs node yourself, you dont need a gateway
<lemmi>
well your node is the gateway in that case
<Mercurial>
so browsers would need to natively become ipfs gateways
<Mercurial>
to really consume content in a decentralized way?
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<lemmi>
ideally, yes, but going through a local node comes pretty close
<Mercurial>
I see
<Mercurial>
I guess we really need browser vendors to cooperate for this thing to take off
<Mercurial>
but atleast the gateway / service storage layer is now decentralized
<lemmi>
browsers arent the only application for ipfs
<Mercurial>
I understand
<Mercurial>
ok but I definately understand more now, so to access decentralized content you need to join the IPFS network
<Mercurial>
connect to it
<r0kk3rz>
the browser state of things is fine tbh, http gateways work well, js-ipfs works well, firefox put in a ipfs:// protocol handler thing
<Mercurial>
so my next question is , why would anyone host other peoples files?
<Mercurial>
oh firefox supports ipfs already?
<r0kk3rz>
not quite, you need a local node and ipfs-companion
<Mercurial>
I see , but I guess things can only get better on browser side of things
<Mercurial>
so next is why other nodes will host your files?
<Mercurial>
whats the benefit?
<r0kk3rz>
there isnt really any
<Mercurial>
for example I upload a file to the IPFS network
<Mercurial>
doesnt that mean some node somewhere
<Mercurial>
will consume space
<Mercurial>
to host it
<Mercurial>
and so why will he continue to do so?
<lemmi>
Mercurial: at the moment other people will need to want that content, or you pay them for it directly. for websites that can be an easy thing if they are popular
<Mercurial>
Oh I see
<Mercurial>
so other people must choose to host them?
<lemmi>
Mercurial: if everything works out and filecoin happens, you could earn currency hosting otherpeoples content and then with that pay others to host yours
<Mercurial>
I see
<lemmi>
it is opt-in yes.
<Mercurial>
that makes a bit more sense now
<Mercurial>
so if I put files on ipfs , its accessible via the ipfs network but it doesnt mean if I shutdown my pc its there forever?
<lemmi>
correct
<Mercurial>
unless someone opts-in to host it
<Mercurial>
I SEE!
<r0kk3rz>
or you host it on a server, or wherever
<Mercurial>
and filecoin wants to decentralize this processing of opting in by just accepting any file and get paid for it
<lemmi>
specifics aren't out yet, but i suppose this is one option
<Mercurial>
right
<r0kk3rz>
yeah i wouldnt worry too much about filecoin until you can actually use it
<Mercurial>
but so then existing ipfs services
<Mercurial>
are just hosting the files themselves then
<Mercurial>
not trully decentralized yet
<Mercurial>
I see :O
<lemmi>
with hosting on ipfs, you make it easy for your content to be decentralized.
<r0kk3rz>
eh, just because something is hosted on a server doesnt mean its not decentralised :P
<Mercurial>
I agree
<r0kk3rz>
the server in this case is just another peer
<Mercurial>
so right now without file coin
<Mercurial>
how do you discover other files that you want? lol
<lemmi>
you remember the early internet?
<Mercurial>
well I was a kid backthen
<Mercurial>
haha
<Mercurial>
i think im a friendster kid so not too early internet
<Mercurial>
hahaha
<r0kk3rz>
discoverability isnt great at the moment
<Mercurial>
I see, I understand
<lemmi>
i don't think there's a proper google for ipfs, so you are relying on reddit/forums/irc to tell you about neat stuff.
<r0kk3rz>
but i dont see why we need to throw out the rest of the web and do everything on ipfs either
<r0kk3rz>
decentralised search engines is an entirely different problem
<Mercurial>
haha yea that would be another interesting problem
<Mercurial>
so im still stuck on how a person would "want" a file and decide to host it for themselves
<Mercurial>
so maybe a movie?
<Mercurial>
you want to have it locally so it doesnt have to buff everytime you watch?
<Mercurial>
so that means if someone has that movie, you can opt-in to host it
<Mercurial>
and have it for yourself locally
<r0kk3rz>
and if someone on your local network wants it, it gets transferred at LAN speed
<Mercurial>
am I understanding this correctly?
<Mercurial>
oh thats true
<Mercurial>
so whats stopping me from taking that file
<Mercurial>
and moving it out ipfs
<Mercurial>
and not hosting it
<Mercurial>
so i dont give out bandwidth for example
<lemmi>
you don't have access to other people nodes
<Mercurial>
what you mean/
<r0kk3rz>
you can clear it out of your local cache if you want
<lemmi>
you can't make someone to delete anything
<Mercurial>
no i mean
<Mercurial>
in my pc
<Mercurial>
my ipfs folder
<Mercurial>
after I got that movie
<Mercurial>
i move it out
<Mercurial>
and not host it
<lemmi>
so?
<Mercurial>
so then theres 1 less node hosting that file again
<lemmi>
it's not that healthy for that network, but it isn't forbiddent to do so
<Mercurial>
I see
<Mercurial>
so people will be leechers
<Mercurial>
:(
<Mercurial>
ok lets change topic for now, I understand that part might not be the rainbow and shunshine of IPFS ?
<Mercurial>
so lets say I'm making a website
<Mercurial>
static html,css
<Mercurial>
I host the files via ipfs
<Mercurial>
so that means I still have to have a node running to maintain those files?
<Mercurial>
cause no one else will host them
<lemmi>
yes
<lemmi>
ipfs isn't a magic unicorn
<lemmi>
(sadly)
<Mercurial>
haha yes I'm just really trying to understand it sorry
<Mercurial>
but the advantage now is
<lemmi>
think bittorrent
<Mercurial>
I can mount that same folder on my computer
<lemmi>
at least for that case
<Mercurial>
and server
<Mercurial>
and edit it on my computer
<Mercurial>
and the web server will also get updated?
<lemmi>
no
<Mercurial>
the hash changes?
<lemmi>
not automatically
<Mercurial>
I see
<Mercurial>
so I'll need some "logic" in the server to fetch the updated version
<lemmi>
the hash changes and the server needs to know about the new hash and be somehow instructed to pin the hash
<Mercurial>
ah I see
<lemmi>
there is ipfs-cluster that makes distributing content over several nodes easier
<Mercurial>
I see
<Mercurial>
ok how about this
<Mercurial>
I have an asia node
<Mercurial>
and us node
<Mercurial>
same site but maybe behind a load balancer
<Mercurial>
if they have that "magic" to fetch the updated hash
<Mercurial>
that means I can loadblanace then so us users will still get latest file
<Mercurial>
pointing to the us node
<Mercurial>
and same for asia?
<lemmi>
ipfs will take what works
<lemmi>
it doesn't care where a node is as long it can talk to it
<Mercurial>
right, but if the user is from the US and the gateway is from asia
<Mercurial>
thats still gonna be slow
<lemmi>
you need to stop mixing gateways and ipfs
<Mercurial>
ok
<Mercurial>
sorry
<lemmi>
the moment you step through a getway, you are on the old internet
<Mercurial>
right
<Mercurial>
but if I have two gateways us and asia
<Mercurial>
hosting same folder on ipfs
<lemmi>
gateways are just like any ordinary https server
<Mercurial>
that means storage layer is decentralized right
<Mercurial>
and I can just point the user to where gateway is preferable for the same content
<lemmi>
yes, with dns for example
<lemmi>
but this has nothing to do with ipfs
<Mercurial>
ok how about this then
<Mercurial>
I am a user of IPFS in the US
<Mercurial>
and the file I want is hosted only on a node
<Mercurial>
on asia
<Mercurial>
so that means I still need to fetch that from asia
<Mercurial>
unless someone is hosting that same file
<Mercurial>
in the us
<lemmi>
sure
<Mercurial>
ok
<Mercurial>
well I guess I understand it now
<Mercurial>
so I'm really guessing filecoin will really improve this
<Mercurial>
because if there is no incentive for hosting file, it wont spread that easily :(
<Mercurial>
do you have any example of good usage if ipfs without filecoin?
<lemmi>
the thing is: if it isn't popular that one node can easily server up what is needed, if it gets popular you'll get you cdn for free
<r0kk3rz>
plenty, you're still stuck in a client/server model of thinking
<Mercurial>
please help me :(
<r0kk3rz>
check out peerpad.net for a different kind of thing :)
<Mercurial>
i need my thinking to transcend client/server
<Mercurial>
checking now
<Mercurial>
it says status offline :(
<Mercurial>
<lemmi> the thing is: if it isn't popular that one node can easily server up what is needed, if it gets popular you'll get you cdn for free
<lemmi>
Mercurial: this was the elaboration :D if people access content over ipfs, they are able to distribute it. so if a lot of nodes access your content a lot are able to seed it
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<Mercurial>
oh
<Mercurial>
so if you access a file
<Mercurial>
then they are effectively hosting it?
<Mercurial>
then you are*
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<Mercurial>
so let says Ben and Holly
<Mercurial>
Ben has an image file
<Mercurial>
hosting it via ipfs
<Mercurial>
he shares it to holly
<Mercurial>
holly grabs it via ipfs hash
<Mercurial>
so then ben & holly is now serving both files?
<lemmi>
yes
<Mercurial>
:O
<Mercurial>
OMG
<Mercurial>
im so dumb
<Mercurial>
LMAO
<Mercurial>
thanks Lemmi
<Mercurial>
you are awesome :D
<Mercurial>
ok I have another question
<Mercurial>
I have 2 html pages
<cwahlers>
holly is hosting it for a while, but it will be garbage collected at some point. unless she "pins" it, then she is permanently hosting it , too
<Mercurial>
Oh
<Mercurial>
so theres a concept of garbage collection
<Mercurial>
so you view a file
<lemmi>
yes, but not active by default
<Mercurial>
but its not gonna be always there
<Mercurial>
forever
<Mercurial>
ah
<lemmi>
but you can enable it
<Mercurial>
so which is the default behavior?
<Mercurial>
you get a file via ipfs
<lemmi>
no garbage collection
<Mercurial>
and it stays in your drive forever untill you delete? or enable gc?
<Mercurial>
ok
<Mercurial>
got it
<Mercurial>
ok so let says I have 2 page of html
<lemmi>
you can run gc manually. it will then remove everything that wasn't explicitly pinned
<Mercurial>
and both of them links to each other
<lemmi>
Mercurial: why don't you just try it
<cwahlers>
oh you don't need to pin anymore, just accessing it is sufficient? i did not know that
<Mercurial>
I am trying it today haha
<Mercurial>
just not on my pc at the moment
<lemmi>
cwahlers: was it ever not that way?
<Mercurial>
im just so pumped
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<lemmi>
natewalck: i c
<lemmi>
Mercurial: i c
<Mercurial>
anywaaay 2 html pages, both links to each other
<Mercurial>
but if I change one
<Mercurial>
the hash changes
<Mercurial>
so how do I link the files?
<Mercurial>
lol
<cwahlers>
lemmi i always thought it was but i'm probably wrong :)
<voker57>
you can use relative links
<lemmi>
Mercurial: relative link
<Mercurial>
what you mean?
<lemmi>
not absolute
<r0kk3rz>
Mercurial: id be real interested to know how you got a bidirectional hash link
<voker57>
like add a directory with page1.html and page2.html and use href="page1.html"
<Mercurial>
for example page1 is hash 123
<Mercurial>
oh
<lemmi>
Mercurial: you don't do that
<Mercurial>
so that works then
<Mercurial>
ok
<Mercurial>
man ipfs is so cool
<Mercurial>
haha
<Mercurial>
is there any ipfs native browser in the works?
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<vxv>
Q: Are any c-ipfs devs available? I've built c-ipfs but I'm unable to make it work, it segfaults upon any request
<whyrusleeping>
vxv: I don't think they hang out around here
<vxv>
thanks anyway
<vxv>
I'm mostly trying to get ipfs working on android
<vxv>
and I'm exploring all the options available
<vxv>
(the go-ipfs instructions as they appear on github aren't working anymore on Go 1.9.2 and it's unclear how to build it using gomobile)
<vxv>
IPFSDroid is a nice application, but it's not a real node yet
<vxv>
the Guardian project guys reported that they were able to build go-ipfs targetting android/arm, but their method doesn't seem to work with recent versions of Go and/or ipfs
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<whyrusleeping>
vxv: hrm, i havent tried personally
<whyrusleeping>
I know the open bazaar guys build for ios
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<vxv>
whyrusleeping, that's cool. If that's the case, they should probably be using gomobile targeting darwin/arm. I'm going to check with them.
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lord| is now known as often
often is now known as lord|
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<wetpaint[m]>
hey all, i'm playing around with ipfs for the first time, wondering why `jsipfs daemon` doesn't spit out any "Swarm announcing..." logs like `ipfs daemon` does? (js vs. go). In js land I just "Swarm listening..." logs.